Latest / The You Project / #1945 The Dangers Of Fitness & Health Tech - Kelly Smith

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#1945 The Dangers Of Fitness & Health Tech - Kelly Smith · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another installment in the show.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: It's Fatty Harps course it is, Hope, You're terrific. It's Sunday.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: As Kelly Smith and I reconvene. It is a Sunday morning.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: It's eight thirty seven high kel Hi Craig, how are you.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I'm very well, the sun shining talking to you. It's great.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Does life get any better than talking to me on
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: a Sunday? I mean, you know, does it peak?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Does it peak Sunday?
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: And we can tell it's cold because my computer says
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: seven degrees and you're sitting inside with a hoodie and
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: a beanie.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: It's cold. It's very cold. It's a beanie Sunday. I'm
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: hoping that by the time I get outside the sun
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: will have warmed up a little bit. No, I quite
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: like a beanie though, Yeah.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I love a beanie. Well, we know that beanie flannel
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: and you and I were talking about the exorbitant cost
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: of some flannel shirts in the some establishments. We won't
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: go there. I've done that, but if somebody does want
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to sponsor me, we'll have a segment called the Flannel Channel,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: and well at promote the shit out of you, so
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: feel free to send me a thousand shirts. I got
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: up at speaking of cold, stupid o'clock this morning for
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a Sunday stupid o'clock five, and I headed out at
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: five point fifteen, arriving at the cafe at six fifteen,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: sixty minutes later, and five and a bit kilometers later.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: And it was it was cold, but there was no wind,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: there was no traffic, there was no people. I just walked.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I just meandered through suburbia like an urban weirdo. And
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: there was I did not see one human and I
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: didn't see one car. Just there was nobody up and about,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: so beautiful, so nice. Just man, a couple of possums,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: just you know, scooching across here and there. And fox
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: saw a fox. There's a who knew there are foxes
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: in seb Definitely foxes in suburbia.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Absolutely we do. We do stupid o'clock Monday to Saturday,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: and generally there's other people that do as well. So,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: for instance, we go to the gym every morning. We
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: get there about quarter to six and it's the same people.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: So but yeah, Sundays we don't. But Saturdays, yeah, there's
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: always a few people at it quite early, which is good,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: getting up, getting the weekend.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I love it. I love because my life is quite
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: like I'm very fortunate. There's no hardship, but my life
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: is often full of people, full of people and conversations
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and busyness and sometimes problem solving, sometimes complicated, sometimes beautiful,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: sometimes messy. I just love being in the middle of
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: stillness and quiet and strolling through nature. Not that suburbia
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: is nature, but every second day, probably I go to
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: the beach on average, and just not too many people
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: down there in the middle of winter at five point thirty.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I'll give you the tip. There's a few diehards with
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: huskies and German shepherds and oodles. There's oodles of noodles,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: spoodles and groodles and fucking kovoodles and doodles anything that
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: ends in noodle. If you live in Bayside, Melbourne, you've
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: probably got one, or you're getting one, or you definitely
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: know ten people who've got one.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: It's very surprising to see a bitza in Bayside. They're
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: quite unheard, or aren't.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: They well in the old days do they even use
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: That's so funny you say that term because in the
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: old days, Like, really you think a bitsa was two
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: dogs or three dogs or four you know, like a
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: bit of everything or a pavement special. But what do
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: they call them now? Designer dogs? Or you have a
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: kavoodle and a spoodle which becomes no, you have a
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: King James Cavalier, which becomes with a spoodle becomes a kavoodle,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: or a Golden Retriever with a spoodle becomes a goroodle
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, but in the old days they were
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: just like mongrels. They were just one species or one
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: breed that banged another breed and you went, what the
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: fuck is that? Well, it's a bitter. It's some of that,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: some of that, and then if her parents were a
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: bitter as well. Fucking it was just a fruit salad
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: of henine, bloody DNA, wasn't it?
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely? And I think everything when we grew up it
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: was a Kelpie cross lab or a kelp across something.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love a Kelpie cross lab.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: What that mean?
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Is there a name for that? Because I would like
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: one of those.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Well, it was a bitzer back in the day, exactly.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Let's bring Bitzer's back. Anyway. We love having you on here.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: We get really nice feedback about you. And for those
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: people who don't know, kel Kell has been a listener
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: forever and we bump into each other at the gym
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: from time to time. We've become friends. She's got her
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: own little podcast that sounded condescending, own little like her
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: own podcast. Is that still operating? Do we still record?
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: We haven't for a while, So we did. We did
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: the whole three episodes and we quite enjoyed it, and
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: then it just kind of drifted off. So but I
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: did a full session, like a full series with Nan.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: She wanted to record her life stories, which we did.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: We called that Shenanigans.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Oh I see what you did there?
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that was really cool. So we did
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: that around her ninetieth birthday. And now she's ninety five.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: So she keeps saying to me, we need to do
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: another potty And interestingly, I just got her an Amazon speaker.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So she's legally legally blind, but I thought a voice
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: activated that might be pretty cool, and so I've left
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: her a few, you know, big prompts of what to
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: tell the speaker. And yeah, she's been listening to her
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: radio station. She's been listening to you, and she's quite happy.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: That this new voice activated speaker has broadened her listening landscape.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: So that's great.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Well, Nan, I know you're going to listen to this
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: because your favorite granddaughter is doing it. So shout out
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: to you. We appreciate you.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: We do.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I am sending you lots of Callen craiglove and hope
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: you have a wonderful day.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Yes we do, we do.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Definitely do. All right, hit me up but a cup,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: ask me some questions. So the format with this if
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: you've been living under rock as Kel comes on and
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: tries to stump me essentially, No, that's not really it.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: We try to kind of slightly diverge from the normal,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: which is hard after two thousand episodes about the human experience.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: It's like people have said to me, which I totally acknowledge.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you end up back in the same space.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yep, sure do. Because humans there's about ten
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: key areas of human behavior that kind of affect everyone,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: and we somehow end up back there. But it's it's
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: a little bit. It's not hard, definitely not hard. It's
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: tricky because you know, we always have new people, so
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: some people are this will be the first podcast that
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: some people hear ever of the You project, they're like,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: oh fuck. But then for someone who's heard a thousand
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: plus episodes, which is many of our faithful listeners, and
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: by the way, what the fuck is wrong with you?
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: They yeah, it can be a little groundhog day. So
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: I'm very aware of that, and I try I apologize
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: if that is the vibe that you get sometimes. But
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: it seems to me that you know, we seem to
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: or we need to keep coming back periodically to some
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: of the same issues and some of the same or
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: similar conversations, because you know, telling someone what to do
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: or how to do it, or why to do it,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: or giving someone an instruction or advice or feedback or
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: input or even knowledge doesn't mean they're going to fucking
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: do anything with it.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: No, And I think too, the reason why you come
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: back to things, and even with the episode you put
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: up the other day about self sabotage and why do
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: people keep doing it? Well, if people learnt the first
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: time and actually put into practice the first time they're told,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of people within your space would be out
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: of jobs because people would just go, great, yeah, thanks,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: pick that up the first time. I'm living it. I'm
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: doing it. It's working for me. So those even though
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: it might feel a bit groundhog day, Well, a lot
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: of people are putting their brains and their bodies through
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: groundhog Day, aren't they. One.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: And it's it's like I always remind people that you know,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: none of what none of what we share is new.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: It's like all of these ideas about the mind and
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: the brain and human behavior and self sabotage and self
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: loathing and goals and success and meaning and purpose and
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: future and past and present, and these are not new things.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't invent any of this, Like I'm just
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: the conduit the ideas and the thoughts, and you know,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: open the door to Stoicism and Marcus Aurelius and Socrates
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: and all the old wise dudes and dudets that were
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: writing thousands of years ago talking about the same stuff.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: You know, like one of that was gonna be in
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: my PhD. It just so happens. It doesn't really fit in.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: But one of my favorite sayings was Socrates who said
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: the beginning of wisdom is to know thyself. Now that
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: was two and a half thousand years ago, So knowing
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: yourself or self understanding, self awareness, self regulation, self actualization.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Like literally, this dude was talking about that two and
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: a half thousand years ago before before Jesus made an appearance.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: You know, so none of this is none of this
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: is new.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: The OG influencer back in the day.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the motherfucker had a podcast. He could have been.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Big, would have been making reels.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Imagine Socrates. Imagine Socrates doing reels and little you know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: fifteen second instagrams and all these peeps telling him, Oh, no,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: that's too long, that's too deep. Yeah, that's it not happening,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: all right, hit me up. What are we talking about?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: All right? So a few weeks ago you were talking
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: about how, regardless of what you've done in the day,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: your baseline is ten thousand steps. And I had two
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: thoughts on that. One of them was because you said
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: that you got home and it was like ten o'clock
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: and you thought, yep, I've got some time. I'll go
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: out and get those steps. And I thought, well, why
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: is a dude that's you know you can do that.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: You can go out at ten o'clock at night and
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: get the rest of your steps in pretty safe for you.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: But two, like, what is it? Where is it accountability
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: or is it more of an obsession, so I know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: for myself and purely you know, asking for myself, just
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: stinking in a bit of coaching. Yeah, I wear an
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Apple Watch, and I quite enjoy that. I like getting
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the data. I like knowing, you know, what I'm putting
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: into my body, what's you know, the effort that's coming out.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: But I feel that I've become a bit of a
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: slave to getting those achievements locked in every day, or
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: getting my perfect week of exercise or perfect steps in
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: to the point where I really love watches. They're my
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: favorite form of jewelry. And it's a joke within my family.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: You know, how many watches have you got?
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: What did you just buy? And I think I'm up
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to about thirty five And it's a lot. It's a
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: lot of time and no, no, no pun intended. And
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: it stems from my grandfather had a great, big Sago
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: divers watch and I was fascinated by how beautiful it was.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: And the interesting thing, or maybe the ridiculous thing, is
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: that I very rarely wear them because none of them
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: track anything. They just tell the time and some of
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: them tell the date in the day. Yeah, so yeah,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: what is it? And I even saw Like I had
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: a chat with Tiff the other day. She put something
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: up about when she was wearing the monitor and she was,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: you know, feeling a.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Semi of those don't know, a glucose monitor yep, yeah,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: and she.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Was getting these results back and going, well, you know, shit,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: this this means this, and this means that it turned
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: out that the monitor wasn't very accurate. And we had
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: this conversation about well, what is it like, what's that
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: kind of fine line between obsession and accountability?
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. So I'm going to preface
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: this with it's interesting that you said, Okay, so Craig,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: if you do this, if you go at ten thirty
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: at night, when you could just have the night off,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: and you do your steps and it's cold and probably
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: in the overall scheme of things, is not going to
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: make any difference. Totally agree with you. But you went,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: is it accountability or is it obsession? Well, that's based
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: on the premise that it could only be one of
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: those two true true. Yeah, So for me, it's it's
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: a bit of accountability, it's not obsession. But it's also
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I feel because I am not innately you know, all
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: the things I've spoken about before, like for me to
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: be fit and lean and strong and functional is just
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: ongoing work. Now, that doesn't mean it's an ongoing horrible grind.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that at all. It just means that
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: every day, for the most part, if I can, I
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: need to do certain things to maintain a somewhere near
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: optimal level of function physically, mentally, emotionally, cognitively, socially, even
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: doing my job, even doing this on a Sunday morning,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: for me to turn up and be in a pretty
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: good place cognitively, energetically, physically, so I can listen to
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: what you're saying, hopefully share some of my dis and
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: thoughts that are not totally stupid. That's that requires me
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: at sixty one to go, Okay, what's your best operating
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: system and are you doing that for the most part
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: every day. So I would say, while I have been
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: obsessed in the past, and I do, I can get
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: obsessed really easily. That's hand on heart and hand in
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the air. For me. This is more about accountability, process, discipline.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: It's about that. But I think speaking about you know
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Socrates and knowing myself, I also think there's a chance
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: that I tell myself a story at times, and the
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: story is no, Craig, You're not obsessed, You're accountable. So
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I'm well aware of that think that this is one
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: of the hard things about real self awareness and real
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: personal reflection and consciousness of the self is going, oh, am,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I really like, why do I really think this? Why
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: do I really do this? This sounds convenient, but for me,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: it's more about that, I think. I think the other
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: thing too is whatever the behavior is, Okay, so it's
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: walking late at night, it's it's being, it's wearing trackers,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: it's logging data, it's paying attention to data, it's basing
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: decisions and future actions off the data. I think the
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: interesting question, or the important question, is what is the
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: net effect? Is it a positive effect or a negative effect? Now,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: if for the most part you being see the other
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: thing too, is you could be really disciplined and regimented
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: and a annimal and process driven and in your world
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: that is what is happening, and for the most part
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: the outcomes are good. Somebody else with a different mindset
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: and operating system would look at you and go, she's
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: completely fucking obsessed. Yeah, And in a way they are right.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Based on their version of reality. Also, it's in their
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: interest to say that you're obsessed, because then they don't
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: have to do what you do.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting, I mean, no one's telling them that they
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: have to do what I do. You know that's my
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: personal choice.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Oh. I've been called obsessed my whole life.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Yea.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And even to the point where people want to coerce
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: me to drink alcohol and I don't want to. I
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: don't not drink alcohol through any moral kind of stance
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: or religious stance. I just don't want to drink booze, yep,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: just like I don't. I don't want to convince anyone
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: else not to drink booze or to drink booze. But
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: when you're out and people are like buying you a
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: drink and they're putting it in front of you, go
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: just drink one, just for me, Just just have one
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: beer so we can say if I go, I don't
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: want a beer, like and then they say to me,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: why do you make this an issue? I'm like, have
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: you got any fucking situational awareness? Do you know what
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: is actually happening right now? You are trying to coerce
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: someone who doesn't drink beer to drink beer because you
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: want to achieve an outcome or you want to feel better,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: then somehow I'm the problem. This is fucking coercion and manipulation.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: That's yeah, again interesting, And it's the same with food
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: as well. Like I know, and look, I love food,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: as we all do, but there's a lot of people
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: that they look upon it as being a gesture of love.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: You know, I've cooked this for you and you know
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: you're coming over, and like, if you don't eat that,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: then well that's kind of that's a fence. Yeah, it's
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: an interesting one way of looking at it.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, and it's I think that's Look, I
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: understand that I grew up across the road from an
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Italian family. This lady who names God bless her soul.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Her name's Felicia, was Felicia, and she was just this
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: phenomenal cook and whenever I used to go over there,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: it could be any time of the day. Now, I
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: was a fat little kid who fucking loved food, right,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: so it worked out perfectly for me. But it was
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: always food and Mum would literally say, you can't be rude,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: you can't. I'm like, all right, well, I don't want
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to be rude, so fucking bring it on.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Bring it on.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I'm just helping out, you know. But yeah, and it
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: was like all of those things which nobody had a
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: bad intention, Like there were no bad intentions, only good intentions.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: But when you kind of step back from the moment
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and the emotion and the idea that if you don't
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: eat food, irrespective of whether or not you need food
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: or you're hungry, if you don't eat food, here's the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: message that's hurtful or that's thoughtless, you know. Yeah, And
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: you don't want to disappoint people and all that stuff,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: So eat the cake, your little fucker the end, you know.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, but I think we all grew up, or
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: not all of us, but a lot of us grew
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: up in a version of that. So but back to
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: your question, I just think that you know, your watchers
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and the trackers and the stuff. I think it depends on,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: like many things, it depends on the relationship that you
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: have with the tracker or the technology or that particular
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: thing as to whether or not it is a positive
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: or a negative in your life.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also knowing full well that there is absolute
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: psychology behind any of these devices. You know you hear
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: now that there's your plans for people to get off
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: their smartphones. You know, you wack it into gray scale
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: so it's not so attractive to your eyes into your
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: brain and all your receptors.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Just explain what that is. I kind of know what
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: that I think I know what that is, but I'm
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: not positive and maybe our listeners don't know.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: So there's certain settings on like I mean, I have
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: an iPhone and I'm sure it's across all other kind
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: of smartphones as well, but you can change the color
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: settings so it goes into a grayscale version. And the
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: thought behind that is you're not receiving all of the
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: wonderful messaging within your brain of hey, look at this beautiful,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: colorful thing. That's going to give me my dopamine hit.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to keep scrolling and I'm going to
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: keep interacting. And you know, well, if I post a
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: pretty colorful picture, then people will like it, and you
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: know that then means that they like me. And here
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: we go. I'm on this cycle of you know, just
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: wanting to be on my phone even more so. Yeah,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I've tried that, Like I spend way too much time
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: on my phone and so I've whacked it into grayscale
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: before and it's boring. It's really awful. It's really ugly
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: and a god, I want this, I want you know,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I want all the pretty colors on Instagram. So it works.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: So does it kind of look like an old fashioned
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: black and white Telly?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Pretty much? Yeah? Yeah, pretty much. It's hilarious. And you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I think the same kind of goes with whatever wearable
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: as well. You know, now you've got the what are
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: they called haptics, So something happens and suddenly you're getting
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: like a jolt into your wrists and it's like, oh, yes,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: there we go. We've got that telling me I'm alive
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: or maybe I'm not and I need to get up
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: and get off my ass. And it's become this thing
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: for me where well, if I haven't done all of
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: that in the day, is my day complete? You know?
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Should I? And this came up for me because I
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: had a family member staying and we'd already been out
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: all day, you know, I'd been to the gym, you know,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: we'd been walking, had a lovely day. And I looked
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, I'm like on two thousand
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: steps short today I'm just going to go for a
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: walk and two versions of that. So I love going
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: for a walk at the end of the day. It
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: clears my head, makes me feel a lot better. I
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: feel like, you know, I've shaken off the day I've
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: been at work. But I thought, shouldn't I really just be,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: you know, spending time with this person who I love
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: spending time with. And look, this family member in question
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: totally gets it. And that was kind of where this
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: idea of accountability versus obsession and now versus you know,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: is it just how I am? You know, this is
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: what allows me to be me and to function in
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: the way that I need to. Yeah, that's how it
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: kind of came about.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, I think also, you know that there's probably
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: a little bit of anxiety for all of us wrapped
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: or not all of us, but you and me, right,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: because we're probably in some wady's quite similar. If we
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: do certain things, we're kind of good. If we don't,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: they might be low level or higher level of anxiety,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: you know, And I understand that, and that's just being
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: real and honest. But the interesting thing for me, as
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: you were talking about that, about the apps and about
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the you know, the haptic feedback and the you know,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the all the all the tools and resources and technology
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: that tell us how our body's going and we're going.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking all of the you know, for three
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand years or however long we've been around, you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: we haven't had any of this shit, right, but we
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: somehow got here. And I think the ultimate wisdom, the
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: ultimate intelligence, is our body, yep. And the more that
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: we let technology tell us how we should be feeling now,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the more disconnected week we become from the actual wisdom
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: of our body. Like biofeedback is literally what your body
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: is telling you. And I I think that we have
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I talk about the global We not necessarily every individual listening,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: but we have systematically and perhaps unintentionally become more removed
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: from the wisdom, more removed from the intelligence. Because you know,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: if my heart rate says or my app says I've
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: had a bad night's sleep, now I feel shitter than
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I did before I looked at the app. I felt
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: actually not bad. I thought, oh, I feel pretty good,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and that's just how I feel like I'm in the moment.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: And then I look and it's like, no, the watch
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: tells me, I should feel shit, And now I literally
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: feel shit because my mind created this physiological response. And
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: now I've got some information that, by the way, may
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: or may not be accurate data. Let's just put a
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: big fucking asterisk next to that, and then based on
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: what I think happened overnight, not what I was feeling
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: and ago. Now, based on this new dodgy information, I
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: feel shit. Now if I didn't have that app on
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: my body or my wrist, this would not have happened. Now,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: this is what we need to be aware of. Let
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: me give you a very old fashion you'll laugh at this,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: but this is a very nineteen eighties example of this.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: And I learned this as a young trainer. So I
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: would be training someone and let's just say, back in
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the old days, when everyone wasn't hysterical about talking about
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: body fat and all that, like, nobody was having a
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: meltdown if somebody wanted to lose weight, it was actually
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: okay back then. But anyway, in the old days, when
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: people wanted to lose weight and it wasn't a criminal
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: offense to talk about weight, so I and many times
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: men and women, somebody would come in and of course
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: they also wanted to be fitter and stronger, and you know,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: different shape and lower blood pressure and all those things,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: of course, but part of the process was weight loss.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: So and not especially these days. I'm not a I'm
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: way more about body composition than body weight. But the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: amount of times where I would have an individual and
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: they would be let's say they've done everything right in
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: inverted commas wink wink for a week and we weigh them.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Let's say we may weigh them Monday morning at seven.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: It's only once a week. We weigh, same time, same close,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: same environment, same protocol, same scales, same me, same them.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: And they get on and they feel pretty good. I'm like,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: how is your weekend? They're like good? I go, did
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: you do your stuff? Yeah? I did my stuff. How
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: is your food? Yep, didn't fuck up? I go, well,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: you look good, your energy is good. You look to
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: me like things are happening. Well done. They get on
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: the scale and they look down between their feet and
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: they see a number. You know what, I'm going to say,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: that isn't the number they hoped for. Now the happy
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: person is the sad person. Now the happy person is frustrated,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: potentially angry. The only thing that's changed is they look
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: between their toes and saw a number a minute ago. Good.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Their body's feeling good, their energy is good, their emotions
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: and their mind good. Now they get some new information
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: which could be that number for a range of reasons,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: including water weight. You know, if I weigh eighty kilos
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: this morning, right now, if I weigh eighty kilos, I
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: get on the scales, I'm eighty kilos. I get off
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: the scales, I drink a liter of water. I get
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: back on. One minute later, the scales say eighty one kilos.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: If I do it again one minute later, I might
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: be really needing a wee by this stage. But if
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I do it again, the scales say eighty two kilos.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: So the same guy could weigh eighty to eighty two
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: kilos within five minutes, depending on a range of variables
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: like is he really hydrated, is he dehydrated? Has he
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: been to the toilet this morning? Is he holding intracellular
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: fluid because he had a heap of salty takeaway food
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: last night? Blah blah blah. You know, there's a bunch
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: of things, But we give power to all of these
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: gizmos and gadgets and to an extent, we let them
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: control our motions and feelings and mindset. Now does that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: mean that all technology around fitness and health is bad?
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Of course it isn't are all wearable as bad. But
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: as you and I saw witness or as you and
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I witnessed, I should say, the meltdown of Tiff, which
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: she's spoken about, where she lost her shit because she
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: was wearing a blood glucose monitor that told her she
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: was about to be falling into a diabetic comra in
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: about three minutes perpetually, and then she went and did
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: an actual blood test only to find out that the
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: monitor was complete, not a bit, but wildly inaccurate. Yeah,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: but for four days she'd been on the border of
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: a fucking borderline nervous breakdown because she took all of
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: this inaccurate data as truth. And not only not only
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: that mentally, but she physically started to feel shit.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: So that's another question, though, isn't it, Because it's again
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: goes back to the psychology of these devices. And you know,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: in some instances, I reckon, there's probably people sitting behind
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: there going, well, we know what's going to bring in
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: some cash with this, because we can make this, say this,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: and people will fall for it. But then it's perspective
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: as well. And you know, actually in you know, just
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: now having this conversation, I'm like, well, in a lot
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: of instances, these wearables are great for people who absolutely
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: need them. So probably you know, high end athletes, people
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: with he health issues, so that they can stay on
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: track and they can monitor and they can be aware
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: and do all of their tweaks. And as you say,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: you know, back in the eighties, like back in the
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: back in the days of the bits is, it sounded
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: a lot simpler in that year you could talk quite
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: freely about this. You probably only had a set of
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: scales that said this kilo or that kilo. You know,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: none of the you know, I've got to set that.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: It's you know, and this is just really feeding into
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: it all. It's bluetooth to my phone and it tells
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: me my water, my fat, my this, my that, my
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: you know, how much hair I've got on my head.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: It's it's interesting how we've come to this place that
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: everything is trackable, everything is known, and it's just driving
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of as well, you know, as we say,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: for ourselves, into this tail spin of data overload. That
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: stops the main the most intelligent tool we have, our
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: body from being able to speak as freely as it
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: used to.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well I think it's always speaking, we're just
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: not listening. Where you know, it's the ultimate wisdom. It
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't lie, Like if your body is unwell, it will
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: tell you your body is dehydrated or constipated. You'll know
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: if you've got disease, you'll know if you've got inflammation.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: You'll know. It's not guessing. Your body never fucking guesses.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Your body just produces truth. But the thing is when
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: you you know, it's like we also live in a
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: time when I can go on my back hurts. Now,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: my back hurts for a range of reasons, but probably
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: largely about inflammation around certain nerves. And so then what
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I do is I take too neurofin, which are anti inflammatories,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: and then the pain goes away. And I'm like, ah, yeah,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: but I didn't solve any problems. I didn't solve any
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: actual medical issues other than I'm alleviating pain temporarily. But
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the problem is still there. So that is not a
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that is not an answer to anything other than short
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: term pain relief. So when we are getting for example, pain,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: that's your body's way of going, Hey, motherfucker, pay attention. Okay,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: listen up, because I'm trying to get you to do
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: something different. I'm trying to get you to whatever it
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: is to to sleep differently or walk differently, or to
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: build some strength or to stretch or to or to
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: rehabilitate in an functional kind of intelligent way. Or I'm
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: not saying nobody should ever take in europein and I'm
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: not saying nobody should ever use apps. I think that
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: we don't give ourselves enough credit. I think that we
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: you know. And also it's almost this cult of thought
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: of which I talk of often around If you're not
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: using this, you're out of the loop. If you're not,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: if you're not part of the gang, you don't belong.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Like when I suggest to people that they get an
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: old fashioned diary, spiral diary with a pen and they
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: record or a journal and they record what time they
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: get out of bed and what time they go to bed,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and how they feel, and how many teas and coffees
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: they drink, and you know, micros and macros, and then
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: right down and then they've got this, people go, why
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you just punch that into a thing. I'm like,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with punching it into a phone, But
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know. There is something and maybe just because
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I'm an old fucker, right, but there is something different
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: with opening a page and looking at what I ate estay,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: looking at what I ate last week on this day,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: looking flicking back to the last seven days. What time
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: did I get out of bed, what time did I
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: go to bed, how did I feel? How much water
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: did I drink? Tea did I drink? And I know
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: you can track all of that. I get it, but
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: there's there's a It's like it's like to me, it's
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: like remember LPs. Remember musical? To me, it's like people
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: still play LPs. I'm like, why is that? I don't know.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: There's something different. I don't know if it's energetic. I
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: don't know if it's but there's something different and I
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: really can't adequately explain it. I guess I use apps
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: as well. I track shit on my phone. I use
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: all of it. But what I love is the old
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: days when my clients would come to me and I
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: haven't seen them for three days. It's Monday morning at seven.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: I last saw them Friday morning at seven, and then
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: they hand me their diary, and now I've got three
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: days of information, and I can read what they've done,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: what they've eaten, what they've drunk, what time they went
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: to bed, got up, how they felt, what supplements they took,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: what medication they took. Sets and reps and volume and
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: walking and all of you know. And it's just like
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: a one stop shop. That's kind of old school. So
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: but you're not getting distracted by shit that's on your
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: wrist telling you how you should feel at the moment,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Like this is how rather than having something that tells
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: me I've done too much or not enough, or I
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: need more of this or less of that, why don't I?
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: You know? And I think we think that technology is
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: smarter than us when it comes to our own body,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: and I think that's a concept fraught with danger. I think,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: of course, there are things, of course technology. I'm not
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: against technology. We need it. I'm super glad that it
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: exists when I need an operation or whatever, you know.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: But I think also the pendulum has to swing a
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: little bit so that we kind of get back to
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: reconnecting with ourselves on a fundamental level.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: It's really making me I'm thinking today, I'm going to
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: when I go to the gym, I'm not going to
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: wear my watch. I'm just going to go good good.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: And even with that, when I first got a watch
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: that tracks, I remember buying it and the guy at
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: the shop was like, now you need to be really
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: careful because a lot of people are breaking these when
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: they use kettlebells. And it was around the time that
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: for some reason kettlebells had a bit of a resurgence,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: and I was like, well, can't use kettlebells anymore then,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: can I because I'm going to smash my watch and
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: then I won't be able to know how well I've
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: done at the gym. It's yeah, it's very interesting how
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: these tiny little devices are controlling. Well, yeah, they're controlling.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: It's very it's very Black Mirror. I'm not sure if
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: you've seen that show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: It's both terrifying and weird and entertaining that show.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, But with what you were just saying, it's
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: making me also think of how people are using things
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: like chat GPT. So I went to a big conference
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: where the head of Marketing and Comms from UNICEF was
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: there and He was this brilliant speaker and he said, so,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: we've got all of these tools that are at our
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: disposal now, but what people tend to forget is that
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: it all comes down to the input, and you can't
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: just you know, plug in, you know, hey, chat GPT,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: you know, tell me, you know what's you know, the
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: best best way that I should live my life. Well,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: it can tell you based on you know, just that question.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: But if you actually put in the right information about
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I am a female, I am forty three,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I'm five foot two, I live in Australia, I move
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: this much, I eat this much. I don't do this,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: I do do that, the response you're getting back will
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: be far more in line with who you are. And
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I found that really fascinating because there's so many people
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: that just go, oh, I'm going to act in chat
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: GPT and my work's done and that's that to me,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: So like, sure, do it, absolutely, but I feel like
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: that's very naive and putting that in the same context
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: as this, it's just making me go idiot, like this
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: is just you know, it's so naive to be relying
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: on a tracker for all of this when yeah, my
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: body is way smarter. It's just I haven't been way smarter.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, Look, it's really interesting with the evolution
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: of AI broadly speaking, not just chat GPT, but anthropic
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's called and claude and you know all
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: of those right. Ultimately, again, they're tools everyone's parent, not everyone.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: A lot of people paranot ah, it's going to make
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: people dumber. And they even did something recently where they
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: had where they said, oh, people who were using I
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: think it was chat GPT or some AI, you know,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: it's showing cognitive decline and all of this. You've got
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: to be really careful with research or alleged research or
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: you know, what gets presented in the media many many,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: many times, hundreds of times I've heard something being presented
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: as science and evidence and research, and then when I
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: actually go somebody who knows how to research and is
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: doing his own research, I actually go and I look
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: into it, it's like, well, one that that wasn't actually research,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: that was some anecdotal thing or the research was done,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't done out of university, which doesn't need
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: to be. But it was also done with twelve people,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: so you know, not at all representatives, so you know,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: to meet to meet kind of the standard generally in
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: academic research. Like I've run three quite big studies in
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: the last couple of years through my PhD, and the
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: minimum I'm allowed to use is one hundred people. That's
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: the minimum, and that's considered not very good. Right, So
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: when you see studies done with fuck all people, firstly,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: there's that. Secondly, I think I reckon chat, GPT and
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: the like fucking amazing, amazing. I just think the tools,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: how you use the tool is up to you. Yeah,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: if you if you replace your brain with that, well
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: then that's a problem. But I think the other thing
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: is having which relates to your comment. It really comes
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: down to the prompts that we use, the questions that
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: we ask, the backstory that we provide as to It's
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: just another amazing tool that, by the way, gets things wrong,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: that we can use and how you use it and
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: how much you depend on it or don't depend on
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: it is optional. And I think you know, things only
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: hijack our brain, things only take over when we are unconscious.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: And this is this is the invitation to everyone listening
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: to start to become more conscious of your critical thinking
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: rather than just believing what somebody that you think who
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: knows more than you about a topic. Someone says ABC,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: and they would know because they're this person. So therefore
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: my truth is ABC, not because I fully understand it
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: or have done any research or I've figured it out myself,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: just because they seem credible they said it. Therefore that's
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: now my truth. Well, that's certainly a way to become
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: eventually a fucking potato, you know, a cognitive potato. But
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: if you can, you know, That's why I always say,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: even on these shows, this is just you and me
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: thinking out loud, right, Yep. If Kelly says something or
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: I say something that you think is bullshit, it may
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: well be bullshit, or it might be bullshit for you.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Or if we say something that you think could be
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: valuable or is interesting or might be valid, then and
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: you want to learn more or understand more, or perhaps
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: operationalize or put into practice that thing, then it would
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: not be the worst thing for you to go and
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: open a few doors and learn a bit more, ask
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: a few more questions, do some actual research, or at
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: least rather than pay attention to the dude on YouTube
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: in the singlet with the well lit fucking room. Maybe
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: go into an academic search engine like Google, scholar or
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: better and read a research paper. If you can't read
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: the research paper, then some of them are tricky. Read
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: the abstract, read the discussion, read the conclusion, you know,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: so you can go, oh, this is actually legit. Not
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: all research that's published as legit, but you know, and
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: so I think it's really it's so easy to I'll
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: shut up after this cel. It's so easy to live
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: unconsciously for the most part, where you know where in life,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: and life has its own momentum, life has its own energy.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Like I get up and my life's already kind of
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: happening around me, you know, with my parents and with
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: my business, and with my my speaking commitments and my
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: fucking rituals and rules and habits. It's like all this
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: stuff is in place every day that I get up,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: and it's like the river's always flowing. I've just got
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: to step into the river or dive into the river,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: and then I'm moving with the river. Now that's good
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: and bad. It's good because hopefully the river's moving in
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: the direction I want. But sometimes being in the river
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: means I'm unconsciously being taken in a direction that I
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: didn't choose or want. So sometimes the river being the
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: metaphor for our life or the analogy for our life,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: We've got to swim to the fucking bank, get up
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: on the bank and take a look at the river
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: and going is this the direction that I want to swim?
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Because it is very easy to have habits and rules
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: and rituals that you didn't intend or you didn't critically
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: design that are actually a form of self sabotage. And
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: it is very difficult to be objective about you because
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: you're you. It's very objective, very hard to be objective
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: about your situation because you're in it. So the challenge,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: the difficult challenge, is to try to find a perspective,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: a level of objectivity and clarity that is not always
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: the one that you're in the middle of.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and quite often it's the hardest part as well,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: isn't it So? Just I think that comes back to
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: what we were saying earlier around the idea of these
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: themes have been repeated many times by many different people,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: but it's because people need for them to be repeated,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: to be reminded that you know, you can actually pretend
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: you know, to use your metaphor. You can go against
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: the flow, you can go against the grain, and you
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: can actually change it. Yeah, it's as I said, you know,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: if people weren't dipping into that, then a lot of
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: people would be out of jobs because while would they
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: need it, while wuld they need that reminder that hey,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: yeah you can actually you can change. You can change
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: the course of what it is that you're doing. It
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't need to go in the same direction that it
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: has been.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: What let me ask you a question. What's one thing
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: that you did kind of on autopilot, you know, just
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: that was just the flow of the river. You were
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: just in it, and you did it consistently and but
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: probably unconsciously. That wasn't serving you something that was a
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: form of either self sabotage or stupidity. Welcome to my world.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: That you recognized and changed something that you were doing
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: that wasn't working in inverted commas.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Well, look, for a long time I smoked, and that
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: was incredibly stupid. And it was you know, around the
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: time before you know, packaging change. So it was fine,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: it was cool. Everyone was doing it, and I knew that.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Oh god, I hate this, I hate it. You know,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: it's disgusting and eventually quit. And the money that I
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: saved from not smoking, we paid for a trip overseas.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and now that you paid for a trip to
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: the moon, that shit is so yeah. Is it like
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: eighty dollars for a packet of cigarettes or something?
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Now, something ridiculous like that. And I was talking with
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: someone yesterday and they mentioned somebody who smoked, and I said,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: are you talking cigarettes or vapes? And they said cigarettes?
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: And I'm like a rich Like seriously, that's it's you know,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: they're rich and they're crazy. Yeah, that was. It was
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: definitely not serving me and drinking. Yeah, absolutely drinking. It
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: was for a very long time. Oh it's Friday, it's
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: the end of the week. I've earned this, It's great.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: This is what I'm doing. Yeah, very stupid. And that
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: was going with the flow of this is what I've
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: always done. It's and probably on a deeper level, caring
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: about what people think. You know, if I do this
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: and I don't get the right response or the response
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: that I think I want from this particular person, well
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: then well maybe I shouldn't do it, or maybe it's
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: not the right thing. And it was a realization of
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: who I should surround myself with. And it's that concept
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: of surrounding yourself by people who drag you up and
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: you know, not being the smartest person in room. And
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: it's probably even only recently that you know, there's these
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: people in my life who I look at and go actually,
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: the feedback that I want is from them because I
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: really value it and I can see what they're doing
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: with their lives and that's where I want to be.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: And it's yeah, that would be the biggest go with
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: the flow, just being with people who, for whatever reason
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: I'd always valued their opinion or thought that mine was
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: in line with theirs. And you know, even doing something
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: like podcasts, like it's something I've always really wanted to do,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: being shit scared to do because who the hell wants
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: to listen to me? But I really love it and
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, just me enjoying it, well that should
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: be enough. But instead it was this go with the
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: flow of well if other people don't enjoy it, what's
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: the point.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing right about you? And I'm not saying
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: this to piss in your pocket, because you know I'm
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: pretty honest, right, Yeah, you're good at it now for
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: somebody who are you the best? No? But are you good? Yeah?
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: You will you get better? Yeah? Like I love, and
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: I can't do this for everyone, so don't put up
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: your hand everyone, but you know so A while ago
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I did a Q and a call out on the
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: New Project Facebook page, and a whole bunch of people
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: wrote in questions, and you went, hey, can I ask
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: you those questions? I went, of course, right now, One
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: you did a good job, and two I love and
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: I mean this with complete respect because I put myself
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: in the same group. I love celebrating normal people. Right,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: you're normal. I'm normal. I know I probably seem have normal.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I'll probably have normal, but ad normally in a bad way,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: not a good right. But the thing is that when
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: you go, oh, I love that you are honest about
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: the cigarette stuff good. But even the people pleasing and
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: the wanting to worrying about what people think, right, well,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: that's all of us. That's all of us. And so
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: let's not pretend we don't care about what people think,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: because we still do. I still do. But there's a
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: difference between caring about what people think, which is somebody
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: should do a PhD on that and maybe call it
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: metaperception and meta acrius. Somebody should definitely look into that.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: They should, But there's a difference between that and being
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: obsessed with what they think of you or paranoid or
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: insecure or do they like me? Right, there's a real
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: spectrum there, and I think, you know, pursuant to the
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: overall theme of this show. So, how do you become
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: a master at podcasting? Well, you start by being somewhere
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: between shit and average, and you do you just keep
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: doing podcasts, you know, and there are not many people
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: that and people listening wouldn't even understand what a great
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: job you're doing now because in your life you've probably
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: done ten podcasts or something, right, yep. But for you
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: to be able to sit there and be fully present
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: with somebody who's done thousands of hours on a microphone,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: on radio, on television, on podcasting, on mine, on other
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: people's thousands and thousands, right, and for you to be
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: as good as you are after ten hours is fucking crazy.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: And while yeah, that people wouldn't get it, the average person.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I mean with this with total respect, if you go
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: get a hundred people out of suburbia and let them
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: listen to a couple of episodes, so they get the
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: vibe and say, all right, now you're going to do
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: what Kelly's doing. Ready that go? You would there would
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: probably not be one in the hundred that could do
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: what you're currently doing. You know, there might be, but
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: definitely people that would have the potential to get up
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: to it. Right, Everyone's got potential. But you know, it's
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: great and the fact that you who is innately shy
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: and introverted, and I know that about you, and kind
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: of it's funny because part of you is like, give
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: me attention, don't give me any attention. Yep, ye, look
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: at me, don't look at me yep. Yeah, I want
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: to be on But then do I really? I'm so
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: excited also fucking terrified that to you. But underneath those
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: feelings and emotions, you kind of have clarity about what
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: you would like to develop into.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And even with talking about you know, caring about
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: what people think. Absolutely, I do still care about what
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: people think, but it's reframing it so it's caring about
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: what the right people think. So the people who are
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: important to me or the people who I look up to,
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: and the spectrum that you mentioned, it's very interesting So
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I have a niece who is thirteen, and she was
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: going through some things at school and she said, oh,
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: I had a fight with this girl. Said right, what
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: did you do? And she said, well, this girl who
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: I don't even know, told me that she thinks something
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: bad about me. And I said, I don't care what
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: you think about me, because you're not my friend. And
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: if you're not my friend, then you don't get to
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: think anything about me. And I just went, you're thirteen,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: You're thirteen. It was just incredible that she had this
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: insight into if I don't value you, then I'm not
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: going to waste time worrying about your opinion.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, she could teach all of us grown up something.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: She could cal it's been fun, you're great. We will
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: reconvene at a later date. Do you want to steer
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: anyone towards your socials or anything like that or not particularly?
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: No, not really. I think Well, there's actually is an
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: episode coming out this week. I think I did with
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Tiff have a listen, but she includes videos with hers,
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: and my goodness, that scared the shit out of me.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: She's like, here, have a look at yourself, and I went,
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: holy shit.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: She is the ultimate real creator.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: She is, she is, she's great. So I think it's just,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: you know, it's nice to be able to come back
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: and do this because, as I said, I really love it.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: So thanks for having me again.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: Well, you're good at it, and you come at a
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: very reasonable price, so we'll keep that. We'll keep that
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: price the same. Excellent, all right, KELP, love your guts,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Thanks