Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / 15 Questions to Ask a Friend Going Through a Hard Time: with LaurelBox Founders Johanna + Denise

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15 Questions to Ask a Friend Going Through a Hard Time: with LaurelBox Founders Johanna + Denise · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: pretty This is pretty smart. I feel like we have
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: so much to discuss today, and my friends always make
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: fun of me that I text in numbers like I'll
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: make lists like one, two, and three, because that's how
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: my brain works. So that's what I'm going to do
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: today for this intro. So first of all, make sure
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you stick around until the end of the pod, because
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I'm doing a final thought in honor of Jerry Springer,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: who passed away. And if that sounds weird, I think
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: it'll make more sense when you listen to the end,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: so stick around. Secondly, Way oh Uai, which is Jen Atkins'
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: hair care brand, is sponsoring the pod, and I could
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: not be more excited. Sponsor is make this podcast possible.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: It's the reason I don't have to charge anybody for anything,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: and it really is so crucial. So I get so
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: excited when we have awesome sponsors. And Way is a
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  Speaker 1: brand that I've been using for years. I love their
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• 1:20
  Speaker 1: is really good. But anyways, I've been using it for
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: years and I'm really excited that they're sponsoring the pods,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: so I just wanted to give them an extra little
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  Speaker 1: shout out. And if you use the code pretty Smart,
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  Speaker 1: you get fifteen percent off your entire order. I actually
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: used my own code, so yes, if you have, and
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I think I feel like it'll be great for Mother's
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Day gifts or any birthday gifts, So if you have
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: anything coming up, you get fifteen percent off with the
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: code pretty Smart. And thirdly, Happy Mental Health Awareness Month.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Mental health is a lifelong practice and my hope is
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: that along with your mental health care and practices, this
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: podcast provides you support every single week. Sure, I'm the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: one having the conversations, but this space is for you.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I say it in the intro. It's for the dreamers,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: the doers and beautiful minds, and the community that we've
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: built together around pretty Smart is for you. It's for
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: all of us.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: When I started the pod, people from all parts of
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: my life came out of the woodworks and they offered
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: their support. So I had a friend from college who
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: works in PR and he said, can I write a
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: press release, like, do you have a press release for this?
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: And my friend from high school said, who's doing your
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: social media for launch day? And so many other people
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: came out and that had never happened to me before.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I'd never felt that kind of support. And I called
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: my best friend from growing up, Sasha, and I said,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: it was so beautiful, like I can't even explain to
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: you what it felt like. And she said, Danielle, life
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: is about support. And I don't know why I hadn't
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: considered that before, but her statement made me start doing
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: some research, because you know, I like the numbers. What
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: does studies say about support? And what support does for
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: our lives? And I came across Keith Farrazi, who wrote
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: the New York Times best selling book Never Eat Alone.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: He's a guru in leadership and he coaches some of
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: the most prestigious teams all over the country. And he
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: did a study for one of his subsequent books and
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: asked Americans how many people have your back? And fifty
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: percent of people said nobody has their back. And out
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: of those fifty percent, sixty percent of those people were married.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that, And yes, it's sad, but he
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: also saw it as an opportunity for all of us,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: and he said, what if you could be the kind
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: of person walking around the world that people would say
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: you have their back? Hmm. I love that. It is
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: my goal that every Thursday you come here and feel support,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: and whether you're or writing a book, or launching a business,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: or raising a child, or just need an ear or
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  Speaker 1: a word, I have your back. And that's what today's
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: episode is really all about. It's about support. Are you
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: worried about a friend, are you unsure of how to
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  Speaker 1: support someone going through a hard time? I've been there.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I've definitely been the one that needed support,
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  Speaker 1: but I've been the person who's unsure of what to
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  Speaker 1: say and frozen kind of just in fear of saying
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  Speaker 1: the wrong thing. But I've done enough interviews around grief
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  Speaker 1: for this podcast to know that the language for support
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  Speaker 1: it exists out there, it's just sometimes tricky to access
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  Speaker 1: in the moment. So I partnered with the founders of
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Laurel Box to create a free digital download of fifteen
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  Speaker 1: questions to ask someone going through a hard time. That
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: way you can just save them to your phone and
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  Speaker 1: access them quickly if you find yourself needing them, whether
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  Speaker 1: it's with a parent, a friend, a sibling. And the
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  Speaker 1: link to the free download is in the show notes
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: and also on my Instagram. And if you're like Danielle,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: what is Laurel Box, you'd be right to ask, because
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I started got ahead of myself. But Laurel Box is
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: a female founded business created by two cousins, Denise Wolf
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: and Joanna Mutz, and their goal is to create heartfelt,
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  Speaker 1: personalized sympathy gifts for people who are going through a
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: hard time, people experiencing loss or depression, and these gifts
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: helped nourish the hearts of people going through a difficult
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: season in life. Now you may remember this from a
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: few months ago because my friend Erin's mom passed away unexpectedly,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: and I mentioned Laurel Box because I was searching all
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: over the internet for something meaningful to send Erin and
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I was shocked at how impersonal so many of the
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: gifts were. And then I stumbled on Laurel Box, and
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I bought Erin a windchime with her mom's name on
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: it and a phrase that reminded me of her, so
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: that every time the wind blew in her backyard, she
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: would think of her mom, and I mentioned it on
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  Speaker 1: the podcast because it was a female founded company and
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I loved what they built, and so I just wanted
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  Speaker 1: to be supportive. But after that we ended up talking.
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  Speaker 1: We got on a zoom and we talked about creating
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: this free digital download. And while we were chatting, I
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: was just so curious about their story. Who were these
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: heartfelt women who started this business out of their garage?
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Why did they start it? There was clearly so much
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: more to their story, So I began asking a few questions. Okay,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: so you are best friends and you're actually cousins, how
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  Speaker 1: did you determine you would make great business partners?
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  Speaker 3: Well, we actually really didn't think about it, so it
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  Speaker 3: just kind of happened. We've always been best friends. Her
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  Speaker 3: dad and my mom raised us super close, and so
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  Speaker 3: we were each other's matron and made of honor. But
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: when twenty fourteen happened, we both had friends that had
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: had child loss, and so we reached out to each
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: other that season, trying to figure out how to show
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: up as a friend to each of our friends, and
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: when not really finding what we were looking for that
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  Speaker 3: had the feel and that was intentional as a gift
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: to send to them. It kind of just started from there.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Within the next six months, had the idea to create
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Laurel Box. And I remember on New Year's Eve, I
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: was weeping in bed because I had had this idea.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: I had the original name, which we ended up changing,
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: but I had this idea to do this, but I
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: felt overwhelmed with it. And somehow in the next few days,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Hannah and I ended up talking and I don't remember
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: who asked who, but we began the journey of Lawa
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: Box together from there, and it was really cool how
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: we each just kind of fell into our.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Roles with the company.
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  Speaker 3: There was a really discussion though.
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  Speaker 1: When you say that you didn't find what you were
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  Speaker 1: looking for, What were you looking for?
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  Speaker 3: I wanted my girlfriend Sarah, who had lost her son.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: When I went online to look for a sympathy gift,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: it felt very just kind of trinkeity. It just didn't
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  Speaker 3: feel like what I wanted. I wanted to be intentional.
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  Speaker 3: I hadn't experienced that loss before, and so I was
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  Speaker 3: also with trepidation, not sure what was the right thing
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  Speaker 3: to send or really say, and so I was looking
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  Speaker 3: for some I just had like beauty to it that
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  Speaker 3: she would feel really loved, and thought of giving gifts
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  Speaker 3: is one of my love top love languages. So I
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  Speaker 3: wanted you to really I wanted her to know that
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  Speaker 3: I had really thought this through, that it was nurishing
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  Speaker 3: to her heart, and there it just wasn't out there.
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  Speaker 1: And then Joanna, I read that part of why you
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: wanted to create this company was your own experience with grief.
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  Speaker 1: You're really communicative and open about experiencing a miscarriage. You
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: share what that taught you about loss.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I get miscarried at ten weeks and I
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: was in my twenties. I went into the doctor when
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I was like eight weeks pregnant for my first check up,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: and there was a heartbeat, but the doctor was like,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: something's not right, you know, just kind of go home
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: and come back in two weeks and like we'll check
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: you again in two weeks. So when I went back
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: two weeks later, I had had a miscarriage, but my
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: body wasn't fully done with the process, so she was like,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: you need to go in for a DNC. And so
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: this is where I really look back and I'm like, oh,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: this is where, like I think I was just so
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: incredibly hard on myself through this whole process. So I
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: had just started a new job like two months earlier
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: before I miscarried, and I had already taken like a
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: afternoon off, you know, to go to do my first
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: doctor's appointment. And then two weeks later I had another
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: doctor's appointment, and then I needed to do the DNC,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: and so I had taken all this time off of work.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: But I was like new at the job. I didn't
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: want to tell anybody. I was super like. I was
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: just like, I just have to work really hard. This
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: is like my dream job. I can't like let anything
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: get in the way of it. And I went to
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: the doctor on Thursday and she was like, you need
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: to come in for your DNC tomorrow. So that Thursday,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: I like told my boss. She was like, you know,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I had just met her. She was like, I had
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: only been my supervisor for you know, eight weeks or something,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm really sorry, I need to
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: take off tomorrow because I had a miscarriage. I need
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: to go on for a DNC. And she was like
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: just so so so beyond sweet to me, and she
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: like gave me all of the support that you would
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: want and would like dream of somebody giving you like
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: in the workplace, and I didn't like accept it, if
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: that makes sense. So like on Thursday, I was at
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: a doctor. On Friday, I had a DNC, and my
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: boss had been like, there was this big event. So
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I was working in fundraising and event planning and there
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: was this big event on Saturday and it was like
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: the first one that I was going to be part
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: of with my new job, and I like went to
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: the event. I like twenty four hours earlier had been
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: in the hospital like under in a sea, having a DNC.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: And then the next day I was like in a
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: pencil skirt, still bleeding like actively, you know, going through
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: all like physical part of my miscarriage. And I'm like
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: standing there with my boss who had been like, don't come, like,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: don't do this to yourself. Like I just gave myself
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: like almost no space to grieve, like very little tenderness.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I think about that a lot, and I think about
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: how like how little space I gave myself to feel
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: like beyond the emotional I was. I didn't give myself
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: an emotional space or physical space to grieve what I
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: was going through.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Are you lonely in the experience.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt super lonely, so I think because I
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: told a few close friends, but other than that, I
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: wasn't super open about it. I felt really lonely because
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I I know.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: That part of the goal of Laurel Box is to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: make people feel less alone in their grief, to feel
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: out of and cared for. I mean, you describe your
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: products as gifts to care for the soul, and so
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: how do you decide which gifts do that? How do
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: you know that it's it's sole fulfilling when you see something.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: So I think when we originally created the company, that
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: was the top priority. We're really here to support the supporters,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: and so we wanted to make sure each gift was intentional.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: For example, we work with a gal out in Colorado
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: to create our teeth, like that is what she does.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: She creates these beautiful blends that help the body go
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: through the process of anger and grief. And we knew
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: that candles will just really create a really beautiful space
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: when someone is missing or going through a difficult season,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: is missing their loved one, like a candle just has
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: this beautiful emotion that they can they can connect the
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: candle we have our customers say I like the candle,
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: even our birthday candle. I like the candle. Anytime I
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: think of that, I just you know, constantly have that connection.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: And so when we were discussing about a miscarriage Laurel Box,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: we didn't choose a bath bomb because that's not appropriate
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: for someone who is going through the weeks after a miscarriage.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: So we have shower steamers. So we wanted gifts that
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: were intentional and that really when the gift giver sent them,
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: they could also know that the gift was going to
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: be well received by their loved one. So that was
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: really important to us when creating the company.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: You know, when I think about it, like the way
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: that I stumbled on Laurel Box, that is what I felt.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I couldn't find a gift for my friend Aaron that
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: felt personal and thoughtful, even I love I love books,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: but it's not appropriate necessary? Yes, right, yeah, you want
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: something that feels soul fulfilling. When we spoke earlier, I
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: love how you two started this company, like it is
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the quintessential entrepreneurial story.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Can you take me.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Back to those first days, like your best friends, your cousins,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: you call each other. You're like, I think this is
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: a good idea, but neither of you have experience in
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: really any.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I had someone close to me, she was actually a
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: mentor at my last job, and her comment was, and
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: I've always remembered this because she said, is there really
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: a need for that? As I was telling her I
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: was leaving, I was like, oh, wait, what if there isn't?
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: And I was like, I just really felt that I
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: could not be the only one, as a friend who
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: was wanting to show up in an intentional, beautiful way.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I have a quick question about that. So I read
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: that thirty five percent of companies fail because of lack
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: of need, and it's really difficult to assess market need.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: And every company or every entrepreneur will tell you like,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: make sure there's a need. I've always felt and I'm
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I don't have a business background, So to everyone listening,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: if you do, please let me know. But how do
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: you really assess market need? It's just like if you
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: feel like there's a need.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Well, we did after like a year. We tried to
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: apply for funding at one point in time, and we
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: tried to assess market need and it was like one
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: of the most impossible things I felt like I'd ever done,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: and so we were like, let's just let's just not
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: keep going and keep it, let's just keep it in house.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Let's just keep going. Yeah.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: I think Also we scoured the internet for something like
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: this and it wasn't there, and so we I think
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: we are both of our husbands were supportive and specifically
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: mindset give it a year and just see. And then
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: what I remember our first sale that was not someone
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: we knew and I called and I'm like, do you
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: know her? And she's like no, And it was like,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh. Like I mean, we were creating these
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: first twelve products. It was like a joke, like, I mean,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: I guess if this doesn't sell, we'll give it to
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: our family, Like I don't, We don't know.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: But we just kept putting one foot.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: In front of the other, and fortunately we had each
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: other to lena on because it was trying. There were
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: a few moments when one of us would be.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know if I'd keep doing this.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: It was heavy.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Also, why what felt trying? I understand that the topic
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: is heavy, but what fun?
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Well that's true too. We had so many hats. I mean,
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: I was doing all of the packaging, most of the product.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: She was making like feed paper in her kitchen and
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: pouring aer in her kitchen, and like, you know, it
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: was just like you know, making envelopes for cards, and
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: I mean she games was doing so much at the start.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you were the manufacturer and the distribution and
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: such her service and okay, but I interrupted you. Okay,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: So you called each other and you were like, I
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: think there's a need here. And then what was the
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: first step? I'm always fascinated by the first real step.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: So I kept a journal next to my bedside, and
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: I felt like my ideas would come to me between
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: like wake and sleep, and so I had a first
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: few ideas of if I just created these gift boxes,
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: which is a few items, what would that look like?
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And so I created the name the Laurel tree is
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: one of the few trees that can withstand the first
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: frost of the year. And so that was like really
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: beautiful to me because I felt like in times of grief,
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: like there is a resilience that just comes from that.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: And so I was like, so originally the name was
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: Laurel Branch, and so from there we started creating a
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: few products and then it was within a matter of
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: weeks Hannah was on board with me. We ended up
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: changing the name to Laurel Box, and then we did
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: six months of almost interviewing, and we reached out to
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: people who had gone through loss. And you know, it
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: was interesting because like I knew my friend her mother
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: had had a loss, but her mom didn't want to
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: talk about it, and so I saw also a generational
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: thing there as well. It was almost like she couldn't
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: talk about it for so long and so she still
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: wasn't really open to it, but it was like this
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: tender spot in her and so that was a huge
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: learning experience for me too. And I asked my girlfriend
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: who had lost her son, and I said, I know
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: that receiving the gift was you know, thoughtful, but like,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: did it nourish your heart? And she said, I liked
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: the it was nice that you thought of me, but no,
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: it didn't quite nourish my heart. And so I was like,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: what gifts did you receive that were beautiful to you
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: during that season? And the prayer shaw came from her
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: and she said, I just had this like shot. It
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: was his hand woven blanket that sat on my couch
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: and every time I knew that that was given to
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: me and that was representative of LEVI. But when someone
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: would come in my home, they would be like, oh.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: What baby is that in the picture.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: That was what our heart was was, let's just go
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: into this and interview and hear from people. I was heavy,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: were staying at tables, you know, just I mean coffee shops, weeping,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: hearing their stories. But that was the first six months,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: was just developing those products, and as I would wake
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: and sleep, I'd have ideas and I'd roll over and
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: write up. Some of them never came to fruition. I
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: have that original journal, which is also really special.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I love that you were interviewing people to ask what
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: really worked and what didn't, because sometimes I think, like
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: sometimes asking people in your own circle pretty basic things
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: is actually really helpful. All of that research shows on
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: your website because all of the gifts are so tailored. Okay,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: quick little story time. When birthdays or holidays came around,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: my mom would always say, don't buy me anything, save
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: your money. But I wanted to get her something, and
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I knew the one thing that she would ultimately smile
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: about and love was a brand new, fresh matching set
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: of pajamas. I saw how she felt when she put
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: them on, and since then, pajamas have always been a
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: go to gift for a while, men in my life
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: that I love, and honestly sometimes myself, because I feel
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: like we all need a little pajama refresher every once
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: in a while. It just feels so good. I have
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: been loving Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth's line of women's loungewear
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: features effortless silhouettes designed for everyday wearing comfort. They are
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: ultra soft, like so soft they feel like butter on
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: your skin, and they have sets for all different uses.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Their line of loungewear is comfortable, it's flattering and so luxurious.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I have a few of the earth tones in neutrals collection.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: But if you're getting into the spring season, Cozy Earth
• 20:35
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• 20:39
  Speaker 1: bamboo stretched knit pajamas. Cozy Earth's women's pajamas are temperature
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: regulating because they're crafted from premium viscous from bamboo, and
• 20:47
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• 20:50
  Speaker 1: you leave the house. Because if you're like me and
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: you don't want to change before you run and grab
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: coffee or do something in the morning, You'll look cute
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and put together no matter the activity. Definitely seen Cozy
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Earth on Instagram. They've been on Oprah's Favorite Things five
• 21:03
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• 21:06
  Speaker 1: their bedding and now I'm obsessed with their luxury pajamas.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: They're the new must have and if your mom or
• 21:13
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• 21:18
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• 21:22
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• 21:27
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• 21:43
  Speaker 1: You had a vision of what you wanted these products
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: to look like. How has it evolved from those beginning years?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: A lot? Never, yeah, a lot. We sometimes look at
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: them first few things we're like, oh boy, but there
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: are a decent amount that we still have. I think,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: you know, I, Denise and I are pretty artistically minded also,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: and so as like trends have changed or you know, burlaugh,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: is it in style like it was eight years ago?
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: So we have just kind of changed the aesthetics of it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: We changed the aesthetics of it to keep it modern
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: and fresh. By the sentiment of like this is the
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: when you open this, like you're supposed to feel something.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: That part hasn't changed.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: What do you think makes a really thoughtful gift? Like
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: what advice do you give to gift givers?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: I love giving gifts. I think just being in tune
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: with them, not about yourself, but like thinking like what
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: do they like? What are they into? You know, and
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: if it's in a season of loss, like is it
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: coffee or is it tea? Like taking that time to
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: ask yourself about them, and then personalization. I do feel
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: like that has changed. In Laurel Box gifting, we realize
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: the vale you that people place because oftentimes after a loss,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: their loved ones names aren't spoken as often, whether the
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: friend or family member doesn't know how to actually ask
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: like about you know, like what was the special memory
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: or like you know, their loved one's name is just
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: that they don't hear it as often. So to receive
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: a gift that has their name on it is just
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: so beautiful. So personalization I think is really really special
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: when I'm giving a gift.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: That's really nice. I know that you train your staff
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: to curate some of these boxes. And there's also speaking
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: of personalization, the people that are giving the gifts, that
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: are purchasing the products. There's a lot of trust that
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: goes into that as well. How do you train your
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: staff to work with your customer base.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: We place a really high value on getting the gift
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: out quickly, and so we offer a super quick within
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: twenty four to forty eight hours, the gift is customer
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: and out of our shop, unless it is actually a
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: highly personalized like an engraved item, that sometimes will take an.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Extra few days or two.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: But when someone has passed the gift giver, the friend
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: wants them to receive something quickly, and we understand that.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: We place a high value on that, and then we
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: have a triple check system to make sure that the
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: gift is exactly how they order it, because there's a
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: lot of emotion as the as the friend like you
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: were like looking on the website. That took a lot
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: for you to like love and attention, and you want
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: to write the right card, and you wanted the gift
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: to be perfect, and we understand that and we want
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: to be that bridge to make sure that that's exactly
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: how you intended to be. So our team is incredible,
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: there are we really have hit the jackpot. We feel
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: really fortunate with who we have and their hearts are positioned.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: That's super important when we're hiring, to understand that grief
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: is a fingerprint, it's unique, and just to make sure
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: that that's perfect as it leaves our shop.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: How about when they're dealing with inquiries or writing these
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: handwritten cards we.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Have like a person first, like philosophy, so like if
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: somebody emails us and they're like, this is what happened,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Like we always try to address the part of the
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: person who we're applying to before we address like whatever
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: question or inquiry that they have first, because people just
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: need to be seen and need to be supported and like,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: so that's how we try to train them.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I love that address the heart and then the inquiry. Yeah,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: that feels like such a therapeutic lens. I really like that.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I mean it takes longer, Like it's not like the
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: most business efficient way to do it, but like who
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: we are, it's how we want to be. It's you know,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: it's where like the position that we have towards our business.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: What's the most impactful feedback you've received.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: So someone told me when we were first starting and
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: we were like looking about maybe we should get some
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: outside funding. This is probably within the first like twelve
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: months after we launched, and he was like, I don't
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: think you should do that, And he had founded a
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: few businesses. He was like, I just don't think you
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: should do that. I think you have like the heart
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: behind your business is what makes it special. And I
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: think you should let yourself grow slowly and organically, and
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: it's going to take a lot longer, but you're going
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: to keep control of it. And when you are at
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: a place where you're established, you're going to have something
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: that you're really really like proud of and want to
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: run for a long time. And here sending like at
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: the other end, like finally we feel established, which we
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: didn't for a long time, but you know now we do.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: And I sit back and I'm like, that was like
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: the best advice, because this is the place I want
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: to work at for a really long time and we
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: have control over the culture and control over the business,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: and it really feels very like it feels like us still.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the very beginning, Hannah and I, we were
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: really just creating way too many items for way too
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: many different types of grief and situations, and it just
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: became like the wild West. I mean, it was like
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: we just had lost control. And a mentor of ours,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: who we've had from the very very beginning, said, bring
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: it back in and do one thing really, really well
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: and create that loyalty with your customers. We have a
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: super high customer reorder still.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: To this day.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: And so we did that. We wrangled it all back
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: in and we just we went back to what our
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: purpose was in the very beginning. And now we have
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: been able to expand, but we have like the systems
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: and the operations and the quality of the products and everything.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I think through your company, you've probably learned so much
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: about grief in general. What have you seen that it
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: takes to be a good grief supporter? Like, what is
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: being a good grief supporter? Look like?
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: First and foremost is listening and giving yourself grace on
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: maybe not saying the perfect thing, but still showing up anyway.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: And there are a few things that we suggest that
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: are just aren't helpful. We do we want to support
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: those who are supporting their loved ones. But we just
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: talk about like sitting in the mud puddle. I had
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: a girlfriend who lost her husband tragically, and it was
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: several months later, and she said, sitting in the mud
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: isn't easy, but you've done it so well. And she said,
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: I just appreciate your friendship, and so I think I
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: would just send her just text. They weren't elaborate. I
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: never tried to fix it. I wasn't acting like I
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: knew what she was experiencing. But I also did not
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: say I can't imagine how that feels. Like that also
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: put a wall between us, a barrier, And so it
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: was being willing just to sit in that with her
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: and also understanding our friendship changed and mourning. Possibly it was,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: but she's forever different and therefore we are forever different,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: and being willing to do that with her, and you know,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: saying his name and so just showing up. I think
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: oftentimes after a season after the loss, people are like, oh,
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: I don't want to send anything anymore because it's been
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: so long. And we have this beautiful quote by Elizabeth Edwards.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: When you say their name, you're not reminding me of them,
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: like I never have forgotten about them. You're reminding me
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: that you remember, and so I think that that's really
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: beautiful too, Like, as a supporter.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: That's really nice. When my grandfather passed away, the rabbi
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: said at his service, people pass away twice. The first
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: time is when their physical body passes, and the second
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: is when you stop sharing their stories. And so may
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: you never stop sharing so and so's stories. And as
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: somebody who loves stories, I when somebody passes, if it
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: feels right, I try and say, like, you know, I'd
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: love to hear stories about your mom. I'd love to hear.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: But I think what you just said is a lighter
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: lift for them. I really like that advice, because sometimes
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: even a story is a lot, and so just reminding
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: them that you acknowledge it is really powerful because they
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I think my best friend lost her mom and she
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: just kept saying like, I can't believe that this is
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: my life and everybody else just goes on as everything
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: is normal, and that disconnect is so disorienting. Yes, yeah,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: so I kind of wonder why you think the grief
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: is so hard to talk about in our culture. We're
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: so evolved in so many ways. I think communication over
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the last twenty maybe even five years in particular, has
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: just become so much more open, and yet I don't
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: see a lot of progress in the grief community. It
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: still feels like this difficult cult subject approach.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that it's just somewhat of
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: natural human like nature to want to fix something for someone,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: and like, at its core, that's like a beautiful thing
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: that people want to like comfort those that they love.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: But when you're when you've lost somebody that you love
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: and you're or you're going through any kind of grief,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: you know, there's so many different ways that you can
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: experience grief in this life. Like you, it can't be fixed.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: So the person who loves you and wants to support
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: you is like stuck in this catch twenty two where
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: their heart probably is very like you know, pure and
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: wanting to help support you, but they get all. You know,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I think we all like I know I've done it.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: I've like said things that are later I'm like, oh
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: my gosh, I can't There's like a few specific things
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I've said to friends. I'm like I had to go
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: back later and apologize, Like I can't believe I said
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: that to you, like that was so misguided and can
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: you forgive me? Please? Don't feel like you have to
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: forgive me now, but like no, I am like no,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: my heart is sorry, said you know, like we just
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: want to fix things for people so badly and you
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: just sometimes can't. And I feel like the more that
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: we can get comfortable as a culture, like we have
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: this super individualistic culture that we live in, and I
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: think grieving communally is a really powerful thing that I
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: don't think we necessarily do very well.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I don't even think we've grieved COVID and that was
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: like a universal experience, you know, it doesn't even isolately, right.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I think that's part of where the questions that we
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: came up with for Mental Health Awareness Month and may
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: come up because we section we section them off into
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: two parts. The first is questions to see if your
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: friend or loved one even wants to talk about things,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: and then the second set are questions to ask if
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: you know that they do want to toss. And I
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: think it's it's similar to why I created the card deck,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: is like sometimes you want to ask a question and
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: you just don't know, and so it's nice to have
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: it handy. I felt like even though we wrote the questions,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: to look at the sheet that we created is really
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: helpful to have handy because sometimes in the moment, you
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: just don't know what to say, Like I've done that,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I ask questions for a living and sometimes I freeze up.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I just I don't know what to say to people.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love how you broke them into two and
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I was almost like that asking permission side or just
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: kind of like how we phrased it is like feeling
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: them out. I think that's so beautiful and intentional, which
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: is just what Hannah and I. It's like the thread
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: throughout Laura Box. It's just being so intentional and sensitive
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: and it's just really I think it's going to be
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: an incredible gift for those supporting. When we created this,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: I felt like that the gifts were wonderful, and that's
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: great that you can do that. But to then follow
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: up like they're now going to be able to do
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: with just those few questions, I feel like that's only
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: going to strengthen the friendship, the relationship, and also just
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: to remind that person, yes, they have a tangible item,
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: to remind them they're not alone or that they're thought of,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: But to have that text or to have that follow
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: up conversation. It's just so beautiful and I feel like
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: it then weaves us together. That they're able to feel
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: like they can grieve along with someone who's safe and
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: who is kind of still in it with them. That's
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: really really cool.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: And they're completely free. They're just a digital download on
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: your website, right, yeah, yeah, yep, so everybody has access
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: to them, of course.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I actually split them up into two sections based on
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: feedback because I asked a variety of people in my life,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: different ages, ethnicities, everything, because I think that all comes
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: into play. And one of my friends, who has dealt
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: with a lot of mental health issues, actually said to me,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: this feels like two categories because there's moments where I
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: don't even want to talk about going through depression. You
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: have to first ask. And I thought, oh my god,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that. You do. You have
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: to first ask if you can ask, And I.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: Love what you just said because she said their comment
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: was at this moment, like maybe there's a time it's
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: not linear like it might. It might be like they're okay,
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: but the next time they say yes, I want to
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: talk more, but to still approach them that next time
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: with those original you know questions, because it's it isn't
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: it's not like a step forward and another step like.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: It doesn't work like.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: That, right, you have to constantly check in. Yeah, that's
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: a great point. Do you think there's a commonality between
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: what people are experiencing when they feel lost or is
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: it all so individual?
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I think that the idea that there is like a timeline,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: there's not a timeline, like the greep doesn't follow like
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: a like a how we're just saying, you know, a
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: linear timeline. I think it's common that there's a commonality
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: that there's not a commonality around a timeline, you know
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: what I mean? And I think that the more you
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: can just like accept that and be okay with that
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: as a friend, the like better support you're going to give.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: I think often there's a sense of just feeling alone
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: because each scenario is so.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Unique to each person.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Like to say, even if you've had the.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Same experience, to say, I know how you feel like,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: but you literally don't like all the rest of your circumstances,
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: and I think you know to even like with your questions,
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: like I have had a similar experience, if you would
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: ever if you ever have questions or you'd want to talk,
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: like just like, I think that that's a really beautiful
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: way to approach it instead of saying, oh, I know
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: how you feel and next year you'll be better, Like, oh,
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: that's so not helpful. Like they feel alone in this moment.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: They can't go there like sit with them right here.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: I had a grief expert on in a prior episode,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Megan Divine, and she said, when people are in a
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: state of loss, they don't have space for your experience.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: They really need to be in their own experience. And
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: I've actually in a very like Microway experience that when
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: I was going through a breakup, people would say, oh,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: you know when I went through heart and it's like
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: you just get so mad because you're like, this isn't
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: your heartbreak, this is my heartbreak.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah exactly talking about you.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it made me realize something, because loss is heartbreak,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: and there's different kinds of loss and different kinds of heartbreak.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: But if you're having trouble figuring out what to say
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: to somebody, think about your own heartbreak and think about
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: what might have felt good to you and then move
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: forward that way. Because sometimes in the moment, you just
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: don't know what to say, and I feel like that's
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: been a good thing for me to hold on to.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, great.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: How has your company reshaped your own relationship with grief?
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Oh? I just like walk through the world now thinking that,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: like most everyone is going through some sort of heartbreak,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: whether it's like like there's so many different kinds of
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: ways that you experience grief in life, and like I
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: just have so much more like tenderness towards humans walking around,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Like there's so many different ways that people can like
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: hurt in this life, and it just has given me
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: a lot more patience. I used to actually be a
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: very like black and white person, and I just have
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: turned into like a complete like I just completely live
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: in the grade zone now, like really all yeah, I
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: mean I used to really be very black and white,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Like I'm like personality wise oriented towards being like that,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: and I just am not anymore. Like I can't you
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: can't like see and think about and be exposed to
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: all the ways that people you know, heard and then
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: stay like that.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised to hear that because I would have thought
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: that you started in the gray. So it's really interesting
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: to hear it because it means.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: But it means this whole experience expanded your heart.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it did.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful. Are the pots and pans you're cooking with toxic?
• 39:27
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• 39:31
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• 39:35
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• 39:37
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• 39:50
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• 40:18
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• 41:42
  Speaker 1: you said something really early on that has stuck with
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: me throughout this hour. You said that when your friend
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: was going through loss, that you just needed to sit
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: in it with her. It's so hard to sit in
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: it with people. And Johanna, like you said, we just
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: want to fix things. Why do you think it's important
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: for people to have the permission to be in pain?
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: And how do we give our loved ones that permission
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: to just be in pain?
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: I think just we are all we're all, like hans
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: I said, like wanting to fix it. But I feel
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: like there's such a gift to someone's heart and soul
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: and also to the relationship of staying connected when you
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: can just accept that they're in a that this is
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: different and change is hard and change takes time, and
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: just to sit with them right there and not expect
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: them to move through it quickly, not expect that things
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: are gonna that they're gonna want to, you know, go
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: out on Friday night and and like just just to
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: give so much grace to them but also to yourself,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Like it can feel frustrating, but you got to get
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: through that, like what what they're experiencing, Like just to
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: show up. I feel like that's what like friendship is,
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: Like we it's just so important to all of us
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: to have that person or a community around you that
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: it's willing to do that and to show up like that.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're making me think just show up and sit down.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I mean I think it's I think that like there's
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: something super powerful too, and you just like literally tell
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: someone like you can be in pain. Like I had
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: a friend who was going through infertility and one year
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: on Mother's Day, I like showed up with a bouquet
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: of flowers and I was like, this day is horrible
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: for you. I give you, Like you you are not
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: wrong in thinking that this is a hard day, Like
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: it makes sense to me that this would be a
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: really And she had shared with me beforehand how much
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: she was like thinking about that day and concerned about
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: that day and how much she was struggling, And so
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I had already had like the you know, invitation into
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: her like pain on that day, but she needed like
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: hearing like, hey, it makes sense to me that you
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: might be struggling right now. Hey, I it would be
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: weird if you felt normal right now, Like some people
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: feel so much guilt when they're grieving. When you are
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: in grief, you feel like crazy and in your head,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: you know, you feel you don't feel like yourself, and
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: when people are like, yeah, of course that makes sense.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: It's normal that you feel like that you're not you
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: know you like literally, the process of like telling someone
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: you have permission to be like this is I think
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: it's pretty powerful.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I like that story. Thank you for sharing that. I
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: read a tip on your website. It says a wise
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: friend wants shared that adding the word today can be
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: a great way to be sensitive to the ebb and
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: flow of emotions after loss. So, for instance, instead of
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: saying how are you, you say how are you today?
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: What are some simple ways that you think we can
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: adjust our language to be sensitive, to be mindful, and
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: still be thoughtful and ask questions that someone might need.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I think that some of the most phrases that we
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: were just kind of talking about, like yeah, this makes
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: sense to me. Of course you're struggling, like I see
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: what you're going through, and I'm here for you.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: More affirmations too, Yeah.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: I I think so. I mean I think that. I
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: think that, like really, people just need you to listen
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: to them, Like people just need to be invited to
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: be where they are.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: I think sometimes as someone who's trying to support, we
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: say things that make us feel better and off the hook,
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: so like well let me know if you need anything.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: Like that's so terrible, Like that is not helpful to anyone.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: They literally at that point don't know what they need.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: So just take it upon yourself to get a little
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: uncomfortable and show up with whatever on their front porch.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: My go to is to door dash. I just door dash, DoorDash, doortash,
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: Like I you know, when Hannah was going through a
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: difficult day, it was actually just a difficult maybe two days,
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: and I just said, there's four smoothies showing up for
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: your four little boys in twenty minutes, like just not
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: saying like do you want dinner tonight, like or well
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: that would be great too.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: But like just not time. Can I drop off dinner tonight?
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Instead yeahing the ambiguity out of it.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're putting one more thing on their to
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: do list if you say, well, let me know if
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: you need anything. Like really, that was just to make
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: yourself feel better, like my total, but that's not helpful,
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: Like just just do something, just show up somehow.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: I have a little rapid fire that I do at
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the end of every interview. Okay, what is a motto
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: that you live by?
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Just keep moving moving it, just keep swimming.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I heard the other day that my friend goes,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like a shark. I never stopped swimming, and I
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I didn't know that was
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: a shark. But that's like that.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had the when we first started. Mine was
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: a My mom said, you're like a duck. Everything on
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: the surface looks so calm and put together, but underneath,
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: I know you're paddling like crazy.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Oh that's yeah.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: I feel like Kennon and I now have delegated in
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: a healthy way, so I don't know I feel that
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: bad anymore, but we did in the beginning.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: How many years did you feel that for before it
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: started to streamline of it until two years ago?
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: I was going to say six, So same answer.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Oh really, so you both felt it at the same
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: time six years in. Yes, everyone was like, oh.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Running a business is really really difficult for five years,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: and I was like, it won't be for us. It
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: was actually, what's a.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Movie that you watch when you're sad?
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: I love Disney movie, So Mamana is really it actually
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: reminds me of hand on a lot of ways and
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: my two little girls.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: I was going to say that now I know that
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: you have children because I don't yet, and I watched
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: The First Wives Club. It is a gesture that personally
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: meant the world to you in a time of need.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I had a lot of friends. Like when I was
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I went through like a you know, really difficult time
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, and I had a lot of friends
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: just like talk to me on a phone at like
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: eleven PM, or like like come out and visit me
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: and just spend time with me, or like Beneath, I
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: came to Beneath's house and just like that. And with that,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: like just those people being there, even though I was
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: really far away, that really meant a lot to me.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, I would say, Hannah does a really
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: great job of well soon as she'll just say I'm
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: concerned about you, This happened a lot until about two
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: years ago, and I really just thought, this is the
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: grind and this is what I'm supposed to do. And
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: so just being seen and kind of called out and
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: from someone obviously who was super safe to me and
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: loved me where I was at, but knew that there
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: was a healthier place. So just the text messages, specifically
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: from her were really powerful and I felt like I
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: could I could keep going.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Text goes a long way when it's a thoughtful, meaningful
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: one in a time.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I had a friend when I was going through a
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: bad breakup. She wasn't even that close, but she would
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: text me like once a week, just saying like I'm
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: thinking about you, yes, And I was like really, like,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: I just felt I was shocked that she maybe even
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: she had a calendar reminder and I didn't care, Like
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: it was just so nice to be thought of when
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: you're going through a heart Yeah.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Was such a simple quick thing. Yep. Okay, what is
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: a book that changed your life? Something you think everybody
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: should read?
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I Love Love in the time of Cholera. I haven't
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: read it in a really long time. I probably last
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: read it like eighteen years ago, which is embarrassing, but
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: it like changed I thought about literature, like I love
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: reading because of that book.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: I do enjoy books, but I would say Untamed by
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: Glennan Doyle was the most recent one that was really influential.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: And then just her podcast, I just I just drink up.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I love that her first book, Love Warrior, was the
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: book I went to when I was in heartbreak. So
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: I love he. Okay, I do a pretty smart question
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: from the card deck, and I pull one. So I
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: pulled one for both of you, and it says, who
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: do people say you remind them of?
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Boy?
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I have a like wicked sense of humor, and
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: I will make fun of myself to no end, which
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: is a trait that I got from our shared grandmother.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: And so people sometimes know my grandmother or know our
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: grandmother and know me will be like, you remind me
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: of her. I'm just willing to like fully embarrass myself
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: like anything for the sake of a joke. It's a
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: problem sometimes I say things I shouldn't. Sometimes what's her name?
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Mary Lee?
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: All right? Yeah, so you remind everyone of Mary Lee? Denise?
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: How well? I wish I had like a celebrity that
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: everyone knew. I would say, Johannah, I would say a
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: lot of people, And I think it's just because we
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: talk so many hours of every day.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: But also my mom.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: My mom is the most influential person in my life.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: She's I always say, if you get to meet my mom,
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: your life is richer because of it. And so I
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: take it as a huge compliment when I'm told I
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: that people that I remind them of my mom.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: What a nice thing to say about somebody. If you
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: get to meet someone, your life is richer.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my mom and her mom are both incredible friends
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: to their friends, and so I do feel like that
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: was such a gift in her grandma, the one with
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: the she's like a professional comedian. She's really alive. Actually
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: it's actually a professional comedian. She went to trophies because
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: of it. So we just had really we don't take
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: that for granted, Like we recognize what we were exposed
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: to and what was shown to us as far as
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: friendship and showing up looks.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, we had like this crazy amazing role of
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: women in our life.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: It really makes the difference. I always I think my
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: mom too, because I think she anyone who gets to
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: be friends with her is so lucky because she's so
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: caring and loving and I learned how to be a
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: better friend through her.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah beautiful, Yeah.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, I ask everybody this, what is the smartest decision
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: you've ever made?
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Mine is going to therapy. I went to therapy for
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: myself for like a decent chunk of time, and I
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: am that's the smartest thing I've ever done.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: We retweet that here on this podcast.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: I love that. Well, this is really not as beautiful
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: as Hannah's. But we got a dog about a year
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: and a half ago. She's a little French bulldog, and
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: she has brought We did not know the level of
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: joy that she would bring to our little family afore.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: It's really been. She has not been cheap, unfortunately, but
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: it's been priceless all the while. She's just such a
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: gift we all just so.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: She goes.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: She's in all of our.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Real at Laurel Box. She's our little shop dog. She
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: runs around and she goes everywhere with us.
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: So I'd say she's the smart most recent decision I've reveren.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for your time. Just as
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: a little reminder where can everybody find our collaborative questions
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: to check in on your friend who's going through a
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: hard time.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: It will be on our site at laurel box dot com.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Fantastic, awesome, And while you're there, check out all the
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: personalized gifts that they have, because whether you need something
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: for a loved one now or just to keep it
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: in your mind for later, even going through the site
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: is soul fulfilling. I felt that way. Thank you both
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: so much, Thank.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: You so great.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: While Denise and Johanna's gifts are physical, they serve a
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: much more emotional purpose. After losing a loved one, it
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: can feel like you're the only one who are members
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: them and says their name out loud. Joanna and Denise
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: hope to make people grieving feel seen and give them
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: permission to experience their feelings. They always say that even
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: if grief can't be shared, nobody should feel alone in it,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: and that's really how I feel about mental health. Nobody
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: should feel alone in it. Everyone experiences it at some
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: point in some way. And that's why we created the
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: free digital download of fifteen questions to ask a friend
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: or loved one going through a hard time. So, like
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: I mentioned, before click the link in the show notes
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: or my Instagram to access it if it's something that
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: you're wanting to keep in your phone. And a quick
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: final thought. So it's really in honor of Jerry Springer,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: who passed away last week. You know, when I hosted
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: a morning show in Chicago, Jerry came on the show
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: and we woke up so early. Our show started at
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: six am, and my co host and I had him
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: on the show. We laughed the whole segment, and then
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: we got to spend the whole afternoon with him bowling
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: and playing whirlyball. And you all know I'm an awful driver,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: so you can only imagine how terrible I was at Whirlelyball.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: And when I tell you, I almost knocked to Jerry out.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: I hit his bumper car or her his whorleyball car
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: accidentally so hard. And my co host Jordan looked at
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: me and was like, oh my god, I cannot believe
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: you just hit Jerry Springer like that. Thank God he
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: was okay, and he was a really good sport. But
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: it was a sponsored shoot, so it lasted like four
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: or five hours, and we really had the opportunity to
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: sit down and talk and chat, and I think people
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: have and I think people have this idea of who
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Jerry Springer is because of this talk show. But he
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: was kind of a different guy than you would imagine.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: He was innovative and really smart. Not everyone knows this,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: but Jerry used to be the mayor of Cincinnati. He
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: loved politics, and when you drill down into why, it's
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: because he loved people. He was incredibly warm and after
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: he was mayor, he was a local news anchor in
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Ohio and he created something called the final thought, which
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: is what I'm giving to you now. But he would
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: give his opinion on something, and that final thought is
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: ubiquitous and TV now like you'll see it all over
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: sports shows, digital shows. You know, I don't always totally
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: do a final thought on this show, but I do
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: sign off with a phrase, like a catchphrase. I'm pretty smart,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: and I say, today's a good day. To have a
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: good day. And the story behind that is for another day,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I'll tell it to you. But Jerry's final thought always
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: ended with the statement, until next time, take care of
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: yourselves and each other. And that just felt so apropos
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: for this week. So in honor of Jerry, in honor
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: of Mental Health Awareness Month, and in honor of you
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: and I and all the pretty smart listeners, because we
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: all belong to each other until next Thursday. Take care
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: of yourselves and each other. I'm sending you all. Do