Latest / Pelvic PT Rising / Mentorship (Part 3): Getting The Most Out of Mentorship

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Mentorship (Part 3): Getting The Most Out of Mentorship · Pelvic PT Rising

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: In the last 10 years, our field has gone from an unknown specialty to a household name.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This brings unprecedented opportunities, but we need to rise up to meet them and give our patients the care that they deserve.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: In order to help others get better, we need to be better.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: This podcast will help you to become more confident with your patients, more successful in your practice or business and a leader in pelvic health, and we're going to have some fun along the way.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Join us as we rise together.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: We're Jesse and Nicole Cozine, founders of Pelvic Sanity Physical Therapy and the creators of the Pelvic PT Huddle, and this is Pelvic PT Rising.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Pelvic PT Rising podcast with Jesse and Nicole Cozine.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Hey, nicole, hello, talking today in our mentorship series about how to get the most out of mentorship, and that is something we're going to dive into from the employee side.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: So if you are being mentored, this is the podcast for you, or if you're looking to be mentored, here are all the things that you should be thinking about.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Before we do one quick announcement, make sure that you guys are checking out all of the cool stuff going around about PelvicCon.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: You can look on PelvicCon underscore official.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: You can go to PelvicConcom to get on the wait list, but we have some incredible, incredible speakers for you.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Make sure to check that out.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Tickets are going on sale on Black Friday, which is not that long from now, and make sure that you're on the wait list for first chance at that.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know, if you're not on the wait list, if you'll have a chance at them.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: So that's the caveat.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Please know crying to me when the tickets are on, you've been warned folks.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: You've been warned, all right.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: So, nicole, I think this is really an area that is so important, because I think there's this misconception that we've been trying to address throughout this series that somehow you are owed mentorship or that it's passive.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: And I love one of the things that you said earlier you aren't owed mentorship, you are only owed what you've been promised.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: You're not owed mentorship, you're only owed what you've been promised.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Well, what I mean by that is is exactly that you aren't owed shit actually.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: But however you are owed, if someone has promised you a mentorship program, then you are owed them to fulfill on that promise, and we've heard way too many stories from way too many people saying that.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I basically got bamboozled.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I was told there was mentorship program.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I believed them.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I got there and I found out that either it didn't exist or it was significantly different than how it was presented to me, and that, frankly, is some bullshit, and if that's happened to you, I am so sorry.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That just sucks.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Now we've shared on the podcast over this mentorship series that there was a time when, at Public Sanity, we definitely had a miscommunication about mentorship.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: So one of the things I want to encourage you to do is that if you think that you have been promised something and it's not happening, then first give the benefit of the doubt that there may be a communication problem of how it was presented, who's doing what, maybe something's changed, something like that and then also hold people accountable.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: If they said that that was going to be a thing, then that needs to be a thing and they need to make right on that promise or they're going to be looking for another, another position here pretty soon.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: So it's both.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: It's holding both things in your head at the same time.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: It's that you aren't owed shit.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Mentorship should not be something that is.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: What do you always say, like down on God for Mount Sinai?
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not handed down to God, not on Mount Sinai, to Moses and hitting on the tablets.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: No, yes.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: So that's not part of it.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: But if it's been promised to you, then you do owe.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: You are owed that.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: So it's not just this blanket thing that everybody should be doing.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, in a perfect world, of course, every public health job should come with some form of mentorship, but that's just simply not the case and we hope that that's changing and we hope that you know well and that will change when you all, as employees, demanded to change.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: True Right, that's one of the single biggest reasons people come to work at Public Sanity is to learn from Nicole, and that is going to become a competitive advantage, just like pay, just like a 401k.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: I hope that we get to the point where we're going to talk about why it's so important in this podcast.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I hope we get to the point where employers feel like they have to offer it just to be competitive.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think that's going to be, you know, the future of pelvic health.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: That's certainly not now, that's certainly not going to be every practice, especially if you're not at a specialty pelvic health, but if we think about what is going to change this, it's going to be the fact that we're rising up and demanding, like this is important and it's going to affect where I decide to work.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, and, as an employee, it is certainly a wonderful, wonderful question to get this out in the interview process.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: What does mentorship look like?
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: What am I responsible for?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: What are you responsible for?
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: How often does it happen?
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: All that kind of stuff, you are a hundred percent.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: That needs to be something that you advocate for.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: We're disappointed if somebody doesn't ask that question frankly.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you should be as you go through, so again, holding multiple things in your mind at the same time.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I love putting that, nicole, where I think we also have to put on like it's never going to be perfect.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: It is a never going to be perfect.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: However, you should see effort put in by your mentor.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: As a mentee, you should be able to see the fact that your mentor is working hard.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Conversely, on the next podcast, when we talk about what should be happening on the other side, you should see it.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: You should see that, as a mentor, your mentee should be working their ass off to.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: It is a two way street, but that is just.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: you're going to get out of it, how much you put into it and that's where that's what we want to talk about today, right, so you know one of the things we mentioned in an earlier episode of the series are you going to be paid or not for everything?
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: And this is a I feel like a legitimate conversation where you, as an employee, can be pushing to be paid for something and we really don't believe that it should be all unpaid and all on your own and expecting that.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, there are going to be times that you're putting in in effort and especially if your mentor is bending over backwards to help you and work with you.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: There are going to be some things that are unpaid.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: So we really don't believe in nickel and diming all in that stuff.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: There's going to be a little bit of a back and forth there.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: That's a great question to resolve an interview and, again, hold your employer accountable to what they have promised.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, there is going to be some of this where it's going to depend on the work that you put in.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: So let's go ahead and Nicole and talk about really what will make mentorship valuable.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: How do you get the most out of it?
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: And I think the first thing is just to realize the importance of it.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: So we're talking about kind of demanding that from your job or prioritizing that when you're choosing a position, especially if you're looking between two different positions and there's a difference of a dollar an hour, a lot of times people are conditioned to like, oh, I'm just going to take the single highest paying thing I can get.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: One of those might be like hey, what kind of mentorship are you doing?
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: What's your program like?
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Because who you learn from, especially in those first five-ish years that you're in the field, whether you're brand new to physical therapy in general or switching over to public health, but who you learn from is going to affect the trajectory of your entire career.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Your decades-long career is all going to be affected by who you learn from early on.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, because there are many different schools of thought.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: There's many different ways to go about treating public health patients, and so you really need to make sure that who you're learning from you like how they treat you, like their outcomes, you like their clinic.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: You're picking up what they're putting down because you will be treating like them, and so you need to pick somebody that you look up to.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: You need to pick somebody that is smart.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: You need to pick somebody that is reflective of how you want to practice.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Who you learn from is just so important, especially in those early years, and it's still important.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: If you're making the switch later in your career.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: You're not a pelvic health therapist, you're just a physical therapist or occupational therapist looking to move into pelvic health, it's still important.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: You're still kind of going back to the beginning and learning from at least square two, if not square one.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: You have some stuff under your belt, but there's still the pelvic health experience.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: It's so, so new and there's a lot of things that, regardless of how many years you have under your belt, there's still some things that really are influenced who you learn from.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Does the place where you're working match your clinical ethos?
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: And this is a real challenge in a non-specialty practice.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: So if you're the only pelvic health provider at your place, it's going to, by definition, be very difficult to get quality mentorship.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: If the place is a primarily an ortho thing, that's just adding on pelvic health or a partial case load, then really all you're going to be probably getting is like a con-ed budget or very limited access to somebody else.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: You're going to be expected to do a lot of this for yourself, and that goes back into who are you learning from.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So, just as an example, here in Southern California you know there's an ortho clinic that does some pelvic health and we were interviewing somebody who is debating between a couple of different places and that ortho clinic promised a pretty robust mentorship program and it sounded really nice, and so we were getting this all out in the interview and the person, however, that they were going to be learning from had taken pelvic floor one less than two or three months ago.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: So you know again, collaborative approach, that can be fine.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: It's not like you can't learn or get value from that.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: But when they were acting like there was going to be this, like great mentor who was going to be, you know, so experienced and training somebody else and it's like that person.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: It seemed like 11 pelvic health patients herself.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it really does matter and it is.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And, like Jesse said, it is a huge challenge and a lot of times what happens and this is like some of the genesis of this stuff, right is that an ortho clinic or another clinic will see the rise of pelvic floor in Google searches and they'll hear about how, ooh, it's a way to add a cash based service to my insurance based practice or something like that.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: It's a great way to get other patients saying, ooh, cool, we're going to ride this trend, we're going to ride this wave, and you get somebody that's your boss or your mentor, that has nothing to do with pelvic health and it's a real big challenge because not only do they might not truly value enough mentorship, they might not see the true need for it in a specialty area that it's high stakes.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Like the patient is at the in the middle of this program, right, the patient is in the middle of do you know what you're doing or do you not?
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: And do you have someone that you can learn from?
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Like that's the patient's the one who's in the middle of that and that's an interesting thing, which isn't always the ethos in an ortho clinic, right, a lot of times it's a little more throw people in, they'll figure it out.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: You've gotten a bunch of ortho in PT school.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: It doesn't really matter.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Now that's going to be very different and the value of mentorship and public health is different.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: So that's the importance.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: If you guys are listening to this podcast, I'm assuming that you don't have a problem with the importance of mentorship.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Like that's kind of what you're getting right now.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Right, you're getting professional development, clinical development.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Number two here is put in the work, and this goes back to this being a two way street.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: So if you want to get the most out of your mentorship program, you've got to put in your own work, your own thought, your own effort into this and not just sit back and think that you're going to receive all of this stuff without putting in thought on your own.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: And I will say this it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to have to spend hours and hours outside of the clinic, but in this section we're going to talk about what are the ways that you can put in the work to get the most out of it, to get your question honed in, for instance, a little bit better, so that you are going to get a better answer.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: So that's the first part in this.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Thing is put in the work, is put in the work to actively think about what's the best question that I could ask to get the best answer.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, so a lot of times the questions that are asked are basically just a plea for help.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: I've got this really tough patient and they're really prickly and they have a tough personality and they've had pedental neuralgia for 10 years and they think they also might have endo.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Not a question.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: It's not a question right.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: It's basically a plea for help.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: That's oftentimes what case conferences are, which is why Nicole's not a big fan.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: We've talked about that on a previous soad but it's basically a plea for help.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Now, how is that different than actually sitting down and saying why am I having a hard time with this person?
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Is it because of the medical management side?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Is it because of their personality?
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Is it because of conflating endo and pedental neuralgia?
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: What is it that's actually causing me to have a problem?
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: And if you ask yourself why a couple of times, usually you'll get to a deeper and much more helpful question why is this person a problem?
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Well, they won't listen to anything I say.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Why does that bother me?
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Well, because I actually don't think I know enough about the medical management of pedental neuralgia to tell them whether they need a ganglion of MPAR block or something higher up.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Ooh, Jesse, look at you.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: I'm just a parrot.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I'm literally just a parrot.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I was like Nicole's medical masterclass that I listened to and now I can just like bang ganglion of MPAR.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: But that will get you such a better answer when you go to your mentor and they're going to like mentor you more because it's thought provoking.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: You can go back and forth when you've put in the time, as opposed to just these, and I get it.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: If you've done this before.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: This is not critical.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Like we all struggle with this.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: When we start off and we're learning something, we're not feeling confident, but ask yourself are you really just pleading for help or are you thinking it through so that you've got a concrete question that you can go with?
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: And another tip or trick for this part to ask a better question is to start with what is your assessment?
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how many times someone will come in and will say I'm having a problem with this person.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: It's great, great.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: One of my first questions is what do you think is going on?
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: If you never saw this person again and you were had the doctor in front of us right now, what would you say, do you think is the problem?
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: What is your actual doctorate level assessment?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Not just like she's stressed out, but what about her nervous system?
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Upregulation is contributing to her pelvic floor symptoms, like what is that?
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And so that can sometimes get used as springboard into.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Can you answer that question?
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: If you can't answer that question, then your question is ooh, why don't I know that?
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: What am I having a hard time deciphering with that patient?
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: If you know that, then that's what you lead with when you ask your question.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: You lead with hey, I have this person, my assessment so far is blank.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And then you add another question on top of that.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: That is and I've tried this and it hasn't worked.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: So now I'm stuck.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: What is the best course of action?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking either this or this.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: That is going to provoke a much better conversation than help my patients not getting better.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, so another trick for this is take notes in the moment so you don't get to a meeting and look like a dummy, right?
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I mean just, or that you don't care or that you don't care right, Because that could be also the way that your mentor interprets that if they all the sudden have a.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Sometimes this happens when, like you both have a break in the schedule or a cancellation, something like that, and you have a chance to talk and it's like hey, what's going on?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: What do you have questions about?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: And you're like shoot, I know there was one from last week.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Let me look at my patient notes again.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Hold on, I'll be back to you.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: And now you spend five minutes looking at your damn chart that you can't even decipher your notes on.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: And now I'm annoyed because I'm sitting there being like Well, what the heck?
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Well, how can you not have any questions?
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: You're like just graduated.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: You know no shit about shit you should have only questions Only questions no answers, only questions at this point.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: So you know if you're newish in the field, like you should.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Nicholas said some pretty funny you know a lot of times, and this is a great way to do this.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: By the way, technologically we use an app called Voxer, but it's essentially a walkie talkie app to allow our people to do this.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: So if you're in with a patient at Public Sanity and you pop out and you've got a question, you can actually do a walkie talkie message to Nicole so you can get it out of your head in that moment, be like, oh my gosh, I don't know what.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: They asked me this question about this procedure and I didn't know what to say, and then get that out of your head.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: That's basically a way of taking contemporaneous notes.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: But make sure that you've got something, because you know you want to be coming in prepared for meetings, you want to be thinking about that stuff and if not, your mentor is going to kind of get the feeling that you're not putting in the effort and that's going to affect their effort level 100%.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: But I don't think, nicole, you've ever I mean you love getting quit.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Like, frankly, are people sometimes get penalized for not asking enough questions?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Like ask great questions?
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: You're meant to mean.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Everybody in this field basically, especially the people who are listening to this podcast, are pelvic health nerds.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: They want to learn, they want to have these communicate, like your mentors are going to enjoy answering your questions and give you more time and attention if you come prepared to your meetings.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: And so this can be as simple as having a little notebook that you do, having a post it put up, pulled up on your, not a literal post it, but one of those ones, those on the computer right where you can like type in your little question, or a little literal post it, because I love post it notes everywhere.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: The notes are in the computer.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: They're in the computer.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, so have like a running list and then you know, consolidate that towards the end of the week or use that at your cancellation and no show time where you can be like, okay, well, I've had like three people that I've had this question on, consolidate that.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Let's think about that a little bit better.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Let's do a little research while I have this time on this one thing so that I can ask a better question.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: It all comes back down to ask a better question.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: You can get a better answer.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: You got to put in a little bit of the work and it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to spend hours and hours and hours outside of your normal work.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: It just means you have to be a little bit more efficient and a little bit more systematic about how you think about the questions that you're going to ask.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: So the first is to understand the importance of mentorship and to find a place that's going to be able to provide that.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: The second is put in your own work.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: The third is, once you're there, you got to be willing to learn right, and that's all Nicole goes back to.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: This is all refring term, right, but the yeah butters.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, butters man the first thing that comes out of your mouth when there's a critique or criticism or suggestion is yeah, but and this is either yeah, but I don't want to do that, or I can't do that, or it's some sort of an excuse, or it's a neat jerk reaction and this is going to hit a lot of you square in the motherfucking nose.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Right now, the tendency is to say yeah, but I've already done that and that, my friends, is very likely not true.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I know that that's like a human thing You're coming for a question, you're having a hard time, you're already feeling a little bit insecure, and so some person your mentor might say something kind of obvious that you feel sort of dumb for not thinking about yourself, and your immediate thing to not look like a dummy in the meeting is to be like oh, yeah, I've already done that, which is probably not true.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a white lie, or you've done a version of it, not quite like that, and that's a version of yeah, butting.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: That is very prevalent in this mentee mentorship relationship and it's really fucking annoying, to be quite honest with you, because the just say yes, yes and yes, okay, and what else?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Like, yes, I do need to do that, or I do need to look at that again, or I have done that, but not in the best way.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Right, yes, and I did that in the first couple of sessions and we haven't come back to it in the last little bit.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's more important?
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Say yes, not yes, and yes, right, like it's an improv thing.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not yet but yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, and it's one of the things that happens a lot, and I really think it comes from a place of insecurity, and so you got.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: A part of being willing to learn is also leave your ego at the door.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: It's all about the patient at this point, and so your patient needs to get better.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: You don't know shit about shit.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: You have somebody that's going to help you.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: You've got to resist the urge to say face.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Essentially, it's okay that if that's the one of the things that should be happening in this relationship is that there shouldn't be any tisk tisk.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: What an idiot.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: You didn't think of the most basic thing.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: It's like that's not your job.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: You're learning.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: That's okay.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: If you ask the most basic question, you forget the most basic of things.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Or you didn't look at the obturator internist in the anterior portion.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: You really only did it to the side at nine o'clock and did the push your leg into my hand and didn't actually feel the whole length of the obturator internist like I can't tell you how many times I've been like have you checked the anterior portion?
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: And they're like yeah, I did, but it wasn't tight have you checked the obturator internist?
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and they're like, yeah, but there wasn't really anything wrong.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: And then you have to go right, because you're good at this, like you have to go digging, but even some mentors don't go digging right and then it's so.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Then it's like.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: My first feeling is like I bet you didn't.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I bet you only did exactly what was taught in one of the hermitin wallace courses, which is just look and put the knee in and then doesn't hurt, and so you don't think it's a problem, but you're not actually looking at its anterior portion, up by where the bladder is, and like are you really even sure that you're in that far and you need to be at the PIP, not the DIP?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I mean all the things right, and so, yeah, I feel like that's just one of the things.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Just don't yeah, but and don't yeah.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I tried that already and it didn't work.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: It's like I think you just need part of your being willing to learn to say you're ego at the door, and if you don't have a mentor that you can feel comfortable being like I don't know shit about shit, then that's not the right mentor for you yes, I am a reformed yeah butter, reforming yeah butter that was like I just gave out the look.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: That was like reforming right.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I used to be really bad at this, so bad and have gotten a lot better.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: And this is one of the things, honestly, that just getting and receiving coaching gets you better at again.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: That's like a skill and I really do feel like and we've done this before with some of our, our mentors on the business side and once you've decided to put your trust into somebody, you have to trust your instinct to do that or you have to say you know what, I'm not going to get mentored by this person.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: But you can't go ahead and in our case, you know, shell out money for a business coach and then, yeah, but all over everything that they're going to say, like, if you're going to trust somebody with it, you've made the decision, you've gone into it eyes wide open.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: You've got to follow through on what they say, otherwise, like, what the hell are you doing there?
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: totally, and then this is something too going back to a little.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: You guys know that I used to be at and CAA basketball referee.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: It got up pretty high to did division two and got to the playoffs, and it was kind of a big deal.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: So bottom line, though, is that we go to referee camps.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: You literally I'm not joking you guys you will get railed in front of a million people, in front of some of the best referees in women's college basketball.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: If you do this, yeah, but in front of somebody you will also get freaking fired.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: You will not work in different conferences.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: If you yeah, but you really have to literally the worst reputation you got.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: If you get what you don't have for very long because you get fucking fired, you just literally don't work as a referee.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: If you yeah, but it's like that's just the culture of Collegiate officiating is that you just don't do that.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Once you really take that to heart, you'll see it.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, I still feel every once in a while the the inkling to do that.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Every once in a while it'll come up like I've trained it out of myself quite a bit, but every once in a while I'll be like shit, I was just about to, yeah, but like I can't believe that.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: It's almost like once you see it, you can't unsee it.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: To me it's really fucking annoying when you do it and if you take it to heart, it can change the way that you learn.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: It really can, because even if you actually know there have been times when I was referring where I was like this person, I'm actually, for whatever reason they were, in a position of authority over me, even though I was actually a better referee than them, like objectively, at a higher level, and for whatever reason they he was just looking over my game you just take in the information, take what you can take from it and then leave it and you don't say a word about it.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: There's no worth, that's not worth arguing.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: It's just like shut up, take what you can take from it and be better.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Just be better and stop.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you will get so much more out of everything you do if you do that, because a lot of times, yeah butting is also way to throw the baby out of the bathwater, because there's usually a point there that you're refusing to acknowledge if you yeah.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: But so take it from me, from a reforming yeah butter, it does make a huge difference.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: And you know, the next thing on the call is like be willing to try it.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Just try something just try it, even if you aren't sure, even if you think you've already done it.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I want you to just try stuff.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: You have to be willing to just try stuff, and that one of the things that I usually advocate for is, if you learn a certain technique, or if you are going to change the way you talk to somebody about something or change the way that you time manage, try it with every single person for a week.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Just to give you an example of you learn a Urakus mobilization and you're learning it in the context of a patient with interstitial cystitis.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I want you to take that Urakus mode and then try it on every single person.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Person has diastasis.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: You're getting your Urakus mode, like every single person, and then try to challenge yourself, to think about what would be the clinical reasoning for doing this.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Is it helping somebody with prolapse?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Can it help someone with fertility issues?
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Does it help someone with constipation?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: What would be the mechanism behind that?
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: But now you're getting practice doing it on every single person.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: What happens if someone has hair on their abdomen?
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: What happens if someone's a little bit bigger body?
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: What technique do I have to change in order to get down to the tissue level that I want to.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Can I even do that?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: What position it would be best in?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: What happens if I try this in sideline like can I even do that?
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Does the gravity on the abdomen change?
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: What happens if someone super ripped and has like freaking eight pack?
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Can I still get it?
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: All of that stuff?
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: But you're doing it multiple times on different people for different reasons and seeing what happens and that, my friends, is what I.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: One of the things that you've got to be willing to learn in this mentorship relationship has the mentee.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: You just got to try it so you get good at it really fast, and that's a good way to do that.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I would say this is one of the reasons that sometimes people are really implementing stuff from courses is that they're only doing it with a small subset of their people.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Your advice to be to find a reason to do it on everybody right.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: If you're taking, you know, the cohort number two of Nicole's rectal course like, be finding reasons to do rectal on folks who you otherwise wouldn't have done 100%.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: So that is what we've got for you guys.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: So if you're trying to get the most out of your mentorship program, first of all realize the importance of it.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: If you're to place where you're not getting what you need, then recognize that that is going to adversely impact your trajectory of your career.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: And if you're thinking about places to work, public sanity is hiring, but make that a big criteria for what you're doing.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: So secondly, put in the work, be willing and that's not necessarily a ton of work outside of your job, although it very well could be, depending on me.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: You, at the end of the day, have to feel really good about that.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: You're providing the best care that you possibly can.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: That might involve Taking an anatomy book home every once in a while, but putting the work to ask better questions.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: It's more like the mental work.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: It's more than the mental, just challenge to yourself to come with better questions.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: And then the third thing is once you're there, be willing to learn.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Be willing to learn, because otherwise that is going to just shut down the entire mentorship program if you're unwilling to learn.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: It's not very fun to teach somebody who's not willing to learn or implement 100% and so, yeah, the process.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the process from the employer and the mentee perspective, mentor perspective, but from the mentee perspective, just be willing and open to learn.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: So hope this has been really helpful for you guys.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: If you have questions about this or how this applies in your particular situation, always love to hear from you.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: We always want to keep this conversation going and let's continue to rise.