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Extending Modern Identity Protection for Comprehensive Security · TechSpective Podcast

0:17
Thank you for joining. For this episode of
0:19
the expected podcast. I have with me head
0:23
Cub. Head, if you wanna, kinda give some
0:25
background on yourself,
0:27
Hey, Tony. Thank you. It's going to be
0:29
here.
0:30
So my name is Head Ko. I'm the
0:32
the Ceo and 1 of the founders at
0:34
Silver.
0:36
The the unified identity
0:38
protection company.
0:41
Before that, I I,
0:43
I've been in inside security since I was
0:44
18,
0:46
on
0:47
not the the intelligence communities or cyber offense
0:51
for several years,
0:52
as a
0:54
churn a team leader and a group leader.
0:56
And then after that, I I worked as
0:58
a
0:59
product manager for cybersecurity products, did some projects
1:02
for governments. So went to a few
1:05
countries around the world to help design the
1:07
national security architecture,
1:09
and that started silver thought about
1:11
8 years ago, with with 2 c cofounder.
1:15
K.
1:18
Well, so I guess, let let's kinda start
1:19
with the, you know, the... So
1:22
I,
1:23
you know, when you talk about kind of
1:24
being
1:25
that you have in the background of of
1:27
kind on the cyber office side. I mean,
1:30
I see that
1:32
Mean, I've seen that in a number of
1:34
a number of organizations, a number of founders
1:36
who are who have come from...
1:38
You know, whatever military intelligence backgrounds where they've
1:41
been on the side of,
1:42
you know, cyber offense and and and it
1:45
gives,
1:46
you know, III think it's it's telling that
1:48
that so many from that background
1:51
go on to found companies because I think
1:53
it it it it shows that,
1:57
you know, you've got the first firsthand insight
1:59
of kind of, like, well, what is the
2:02
what what is the you know, the the
2:04
tools tactics and procedures. What is the what
2:06
is the chain of events that has to
2:07
happen for an attacker to
2:10
the establish a footprint and, you know, do
2:13
some reconnaissance and and move lateral through the
2:15
network and, you know, all of those things.
2:17
And when you already... When when you're used
2:19
to thinking that way,
2:21
then it helps you kind of flip it
2:22
around and say okay, well, how do I
2:23
stop that?
2:25
Exactly. I think that you definitely get them
2:27
understanding of what is not working
2:30
in terms of the security controls that people
2:32
are using. Right?
2:33
And
2:35
and I also think that it's
2:38
you know, being on the side or offense
2:40
side is a place where you you really
2:42
learn how to be very creative
2:44
because I think that that is 1 thing
2:46
that you need when, when you when you're
2:47
on that side, you need to take out
2:49
of the box and and
2:50
overcome very complex complex challenges and and things
2:52
very creatively.
2:54
So when when you when you take that
2:56
approach to to the defense side, part of
2:58
it is, I think that you you try
3:00
to challenge
3:01
the way things are done, both because
3:03
you know that these things can
3:06
can be
3:07
you know, bypassed and or over okay, but
3:08
also,
3:10
you try to bring this this first... So
3:11
yeah, I I also know a lot of
3:13
a lot of friends and and other c
3:15
cofounder who come from this background on.
3:18
And that is also what led me specifically
3:20
to the problem that I'm focused on today
3:22
of identity security because that... That's what I
3:24
kind of noticed that it's it's just a
3:26
problem that is not being solved,
3:28
in most companies
3:30
Well, so let's talk to some about
3:33
that because... So I mean I've said for
3:35
for a number of years that...
3:39
III consider
3:40
identity
3:42
security
3:43
to kinda be
3:45
the foundation, the front. Like, like, if I
3:47
can if I can get...
3:49
If I can if I can get your
3:50
identity,
3:51
then I can get anything else pretty much.
3:55
And and 1 of the things that I
3:56
think... And... And I've I've talked about this
3:58
on previous podcast. But 1 of the things
3:59
that I think that a lot of people
4:01
don't really
4:03
think about or or understand is
4:07
that user identity
4:10
is, like, the tip of the iceberg. But,
4:11
there's so many, like, application to application device
4:14
to device
4:15
Device to, you know, like, like, all of
4:16
these... You know, everything has an identity. And
4:18
all all of these things are are communicating
4:20
and interacting.
4:21
And, you know, so so, you know mean,
4:23
yes, it's bad if
4:26
you know, a threat actor is able to
4:27
use
4:29
you know, a a phishing attack or something
4:31
to get my, you know, user credentials, but
4:33
that's just 1 facet of the problem.
4:36
Yeah. Exactly. Identity is really a jungle what
4:39
once we start diving
4:41
deep into it. It's it's a mess in
4:43
most organizations.
4:45
Yes, The identities that don't even belong to
4:48
people. They belong to,
4:50
applications or systems that are talking to other
4:52
systems.
4:53
But even even people, you know, human
4:55
users, they have multiple identities. I mean, even
4:58
I mean, when you think about it even
5:00
in your personal life, you have all these
5:01
identities in know, in Google and in Facebook
5:04
and in in, you know, in in all
5:06
these different applications that you're using, you have
5:08
different identities,
5:09
and each of them is is protecting that
5:11
identity,
5:12
specifically. Right? But they don't know about the
5:16
other places where you're using an identity maybe
5:19
even with the same password, and they can't
5:21
they can't know that.
5:23
And the all way that identities are treated
5:25
this such a siloed
5:28
approach because, you know, wherever an identities managed.
5:31
To try to protect that identity specifically, there's
5:33
not really...
5:35
There's not effective way to do holistic treatment
5:37
for all of the different identities that even
5:39
a specific person. Using,
5:43
not to mention an organization that has, you
5:45
know, thousands of of users and systems and
5:47
so on it it's really becoming a pretty
5:50
complex complex problem. But I agree with you
5:51
It is a critical 1 because
5:53
attackers also know
5:55
that this is...
5:57
That this is kind of the the weakest
5:58
link, and that's where they are focusing for
6:01
for years now.
6:02
They know that if they can just get
6:03
your your...
6:05
Identity, know, your credentials, they can log into
6:08
the front door. They don't even need to
6:10
overcome all the different security controls. They just
6:12
go into the gate
6:13
Well, I part of the reason...
6:15
Part of the reason that I... That I...
6:17
That I said many years ago that I
6:18
felt like identity was the kind of the
6:20
foundation was...
6:23
Yeah. And Yeah. This... Again, this goes back
6:24
many years, But, like, you know, with with
6:26
all of this focus on,
6:29
you know, inside, you know, the like, us
6:31
versus them. Like, you know, like, oh, you
6:33
know, the the kind of the old school
6:34
perimeter defense, Castle and mode type approach where
6:36
you say, okay. Well, We're we're we're good
6:39
guys, but but we're sure needed We just
6:40
need to keep the bad guys out. And
6:43
I was like, okay, But what do you
6:44
do when the bad guys log in as
6:46
1 of the good guys.
6:49
You know, I was like... And so I
6:50
was like, and so at at the point
6:51
of attack,
6:53
it's all they're all inside attacks. You, at
6:56
the at the at the at the point
6:57
of tech, the the the threat actor is
6:59
logging in as a known good good
7:02
person. You know, you, accounts. So so you
7:05
have to you have to take your your
7:06
approach to defending against that differently.
7:09
This is exactly the the change in approach
7:11
that...
7:13
I think is also the the core of
7:16
you know, what what people are... What people
7:18
talk a lot about in the recent deals,
7:19
which is 0 task security.
7:22
Somebody asked me to to explain it
7:25
in less complex terms than I think what
7:27
most vendors are using. And I thought the
7:29
best analog that of that is
7:32
you know, until a few years ago, we
7:35
we took an approach where,
7:37
users are innocent and until proven guilty. Right?
7:41
So, you know, we assume that they're okay,
7:45
unless they're doing something,
7:48
you know, fishy, something, something that looks like
7:50
it that.
7:51
And and the reason for that, is that
7:53
for many years, people have been logging in
7:55
informed the physical office. So they went to
7:57
the... No, the the the
7:59
the person at the door and they had
8:01
to, you know, verify what they are with
8:03
her with a tag at the door, and
8:05
then once they're in the office, you could
8:06
really assume that they'll probably would they sell
8:08
there. So
8:09
as we moved over the seo to world
8:11
where everybody is working from anywhere. And using
8:14
devices that are not necessarily corporate devices, and
8:16
and you really don't know,
8:18
we had to move to an approach where
8:20
people are users are guilty until proven innocent.
8:23
So you you have to... You have to
8:25
assume that it's not them unless they can
8:27
verify who they are. And that is... That
8:29
is really the 0 tossed approach. Right. They
8:32
think is a is a beds a bad
8:34
no, name, a bad term, but but still...
8:36
Yeah. There there's a a friend of mine
8:39
that I talked to a few years back
8:40
about that whereas I... We're were talking about
8:42
0 trust, and he was like, well,
8:44
it's it it's not 0 like, you you
8:47
can't do anything if you don't have trust.
8:48
There has to be some trust. So it's
8:51
maybe highly restrictive trust. Very limited trust.
8:55
But yeah. At some point, you still have
8:56
to give trust. Otherwise, no communication happens. I
8:59
think the whole idea is how to to
9:01
gain costs. That's that's it. It's not it's
9:03
not about 0 task. It's about,
9:06
a way to to to to gain
9:09
trust in in your so that you can
9:11
still continue to test them even in this
9:14
chaotic world where you don't know where they're
9:16
coming from and, you know, who they are.
9:17
Right
9:19
and I think that identity became
9:21
in many ways, the last line of defense
9:23
in doing that because if people are not
9:25
in the physical office anymore then, network security
9:28
is a little less
9:30
relevant. Right? And if they're not using a
9:32
a corporate device necessarily,
9:35
then endpoint security becomes a little less effective
9:37
to to rely on.
9:39
And if you think about it, if I
9:41
can log in from anywhere in the world,
9:43
using any devices. As long as I can
9:45
prove that it's me,
9:46
and and then I'm part of your organization.
9:48
I can access all your sensitive things then
9:50
identity is really the last line of defense.
9:52
That's that's 1 only remaining thing that we
9:55
still have.
9:56
And that's why identity is becoming such a
9:58
hot topic today.
10:00
Even though it's 1 of the oldest elements
10:03
Right. Of of of It and security. Right?
10:05
But only now I feel like it's finally
10:07
getting popular treatment in the last few years.
10:10
By the way, when we started 8 years
10:11
ago, it wasn't the case. People... Yeah. I
10:14
mean, investors and others that they didn't fully
10:16
agree with us that this is actually important.
10:19
Well,
10:21
and and, know, I think that there... You,
10:22
there's there's a a huge venn diagram overlap
10:24
of these different things, but
10:27
like, when I pick up 0 trust, you
10:28
know, that Idea just to stay on that
10:30
topic real quick.
10:32
To me, it's it's it's like, if you
10:33
you merge...
10:35
Emerge identity security
10:37
with
10:39
behavioral analytics, like, you, you know, you you
10:42
be kind of stuff. Because You know, I
10:44
I used to I I used to say,
10:46
you know, like, how hard is it? If
10:49
you... Like, you know that, you know, Tony
10:51
Bradley,
10:52
Has valid credentials to log in to this
10:53
account and access these, you know, the sensitive
10:56
information
10:57
fine. So Tony Bradley logs it,
10:59
But you also know that tony Bradley is
11:01
in Houston, Texas. And generally logs in Monday
11:03
through Friday during regular business hours. Maybe he
11:05
works late on occasion.
11:07
But if you suddenly see Tony Bradley log
11:08
in from Singapore on Saturday at 3AM.
11:11
That should be a simple...
11:13
You know, a very simple block.
11:15
Like, don't let that happen.
11:18
Exactly.
11:20
I think that this as well as many
11:22
other concepts of identity security. Have been a
11:25
1 for a long time now. Okay? That's
11:26
the thing. So what you're mentioning now as
11:28
well as controls like,
11:30
multi factor authentication and and privilege access management.
11:34
And, you know, all these things they've been
11:36
around for a long time. So the question
11:37
that I think,
11:38
at at least we asked when we when
11:40
we started this is why is it not
11:43
working? Why do we still have so many
11:45
of these attacks? I mean,
11:47
we still see more than 80 percent of
11:49
data which is using compromised identities. So
11:52
what is the problem? And and we started
11:55
by believing that maybe those kind of controls
11:57
that we are talking about or just not
11:59
not good. Maybe they're not actually securing you.
12:02
I don't think that's the case. I think
12:03
that they are actually pretty effective,
12:06
and what we found
12:08
that that actually only became apparent to us,
12:11
to this journey. Okay? We didn't know that
12:13
when we started the company,
12:15
was that 1 of the main reasons why
12:18
identities security is not effective is the way
12:21
that it's built in silos in installment many
12:25
organizations.
12:26
And I think the root issue of that
12:29
is that the identity itself, the identity infrastructure
12:32
is is is very fragmented and and built
12:34
in silos. I mean,
12:35
companies have their own premise identity systems, right,
12:38
like, active directory. Right. And they have built
12:41
cloud identity on, like, you know, O
12:44
id.
12:45
And maybe they have another cloud, and maybe
12:46
they acquire the company that has some other
12:49
identity product.
12:50
So so every employee might have a few
12:53
different identities. And every 1 of these,
12:56
identity management
12:58
solutions
12:58
can provide some security features, but only within
13:01
its own island, Without even knowing about the
13:04
other identities and and what the user... The
13:06
same person, right, is doing over there.
13:09
So
13:10
we believed...
13:12
Or or we discovered over time that that
13:15
is a problem that in many ways prevented
13:19
identity security from from being effective, years. Even
13:21
though it was already there, it was just
13:23
done
13:24
in in very small parts and and and
13:27
silent out into the organization instead of holistically,
13:30
of
13:31
Well, and it's something in in a lot
13:33
of organizations. I mean, I think this has
13:35
changed for sure. But
13:38
you know, traditionally,
13:39
identity...
13:41
Like, identity and access wasn't necessarily even a,
13:47
security domain.
13:48
It was an It domain. It was a
13:51
Hr domain. It was... You know, we're just
13:53
granting... You, we're giving cr credentials so that
13:54
people can get their jobs done.
13:56
And then it was, you know, the security
13:58
jobs.
13:59
Security team's job to try and defend and
14:01
protect that, but it was, like, they were,
14:03
like, separate things.
14:05
Think you touching on really 1 of the
14:07
most important
14:10
reasons to why identity security.
14:12
Is only now truly emerging, even though identity
14:15
is is a very old thing, And it's
14:17
really because identity infrastructure and identity security were
14:20
always mixed up together.
14:22
Identity was infiltrated fully as a as a
14:25
separate security
14:27
element. It was always as you said, like
14:29
an It or an a job. So kind
14:31
of thing. And I think the reason for
14:32
that is that identity
14:35
started before the was side of security In.
14:38
On the moment, we had a computer with
14:40
a username and a password. Mean, if you
14:42
think about it, that's already... I mean, the
14:44
username was your identity management and your password
14:47
was your identity it, but the the world
14:49
kind of mixed up together in the same
14:50
product.
14:51
And
14:52
and then for years, we we continue to
14:55
accept the fact that do security is just
14:58
a feature in your identity management
15:01
solution that is an It product and security
15:03
is just a feature though.
15:04
If you think about it, that's not the
15:06
case in other
15:09
categories of cybersecurity that evolved later. Think about
15:13
endpoint security.
15:14
You don't buy that from
15:17
Lenovo and Apple and Hp,
15:20
why, like as a feature in the in
15:22
the in the endpoints. You buy that as
15:24
a separate stand
15:26
security product that can operate on top of
15:28
all the endpoints. There's also why you buy
15:31
cloud security from certain companies and not not
15:34
just as a feature in each cloud, but
15:35
but there's a cloud security product.
15:38
But identity
15:39
never got that that proper limit. It was
15:41
always
15:43
there was always a security feature within your
15:45
infrastructure. So it was handled by infrastructure people.
15:48
I think that now people realize that, they
15:49
understand that identity is a huge tax surface.
15:52
They understand that it cannot be treated as
15:54
an is an after. I mean security. So
15:57
that could not...
15:58
And I think, finally, identity security is decoupling
16:01
for identity infrastructure. I think that that's a
16:03
critical thing for.
16:05
For us as an industry to finally address
16:06
this problem.
16:07
Right. Well, and, you know, I think it
16:09
follows the the the same trajectory as, like,
16:12
pretty much everything
16:13
in technology,
16:14
which is,
16:16
you know, it something comes out. If everyone
16:18
adopt it. It becomes mainstream.
16:20
It's everywhere And then we look back and
16:22
go, oh, wait. We need to protect that.
16:24
We need to secure that. You know, it's
16:25
it's always kind of an afterthought.
16:27
Yep. And when it comes to...
16:31
Yeah. Like, yeah. Like I mean, I I
16:33
worked as a network admin and as a
16:35
cybersecurity architect and so Like, like, you, I
16:37
I know from the network admin perspective, You
16:39
know, And, you know, again, again, the kind...
16:41
Is before
16:42
security was nearly the the the the focus
16:45
that it is now,
16:46
but
16:47
kind
16:49
Quite simply, the squeaky wheel gets the Grease.
16:51
So, like, the people coming to you saying,
16:53
hey, I need access. I need access. I
16:54
need access, you just give them access, so
16:56
they'll shut up.
16:58
And then and then you don't...
17:00
They, we didn't have policies in place
17:03
to routinely go back.
17:05
On a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly whatever basis
17:08
and go, hey, are you still using that
17:11
access or should I revoke that? So then
17:13
you end up with all these like, zombie
17:14
accounts just sitting out here because
17:17
there's no squeaky wheel. There's no 1 coming
17:18
to you saying, hey. You need to close
17:20
this account down.
17:21
You there's so many of these issues in
17:23
in in companies that, are, now finally, looking
17:27
at identity security,
17:28
properly, and and, you know, we talk to
17:30
them and we try to help them. We
17:31
find such,
17:33
you know, like, tech that of, like, as
17:36
you say, people
17:38
that had
17:39
all kind of privileges just on different systems
17:41
that they had. They needed 10 years ago
17:43
and nobody ever removed, though, you, accounts are
17:46
not even using, you know, nobody's using them,
17:47
but they have high privileges
17:49
or they're using, like, old
17:51
insecure authentication protocols cores, and nobody even knows
17:53
about it. You
17:55
you know, shadow admin privileges, which which is
17:57
basically something that allows you to to do
18:00
a lot of various risk things even though
18:01
you're not considered an admin,
18:04
There's just a lot of these things, just
18:06
basic hygiene stuff that isn't there. Right.
18:09
But then also the the the security controls
18:11
that every company needs today. Like, even the
18:13
most basic stuff, like, multi factor authentication. I
18:16
mean, because I don't know awareness to that
18:18
I think people know...
18:20
I mean, even people that don't walk in
18:22
cyber security. They know 2 factor authentication from,
18:25
like, the bank account or the social media
18:27
account. Right.
18:29
They're not aware that in in most companies,
18:30
there's so many systems that that don't support
18:33
that,
18:34
those kinds of security controls they'll just build
18:36
with with a simple password. Mechanism. So
18:40
to so many,
18:41
blind spots were, identity security
18:44
even though these controls have been around for
18:46
20 years ago, the the They're not there,
18:48
They're not there in all the different systems
18:49
that you have or even if they are,
18:51
it's like a different contour for every system.
18:54
And what real time, To do or have
18:56
been working on for years now is, you
18:58
know, just because the identity infrastructure is so
19:01
fragmented and it's such a mess, it doesn't
19:03
mean that identity security has to be. Right?
19:06
Think that we can theoretically automatically,
19:09
really d that and and think about identity
19:11
security as a as a as a layer
19:13
on top. Something that just needs to secure
19:15
all these different systems, all these different environments.
19:19
All the different types of identities, as you
19:20
said, humans, Non humans,
19:23
privileged users, non privileged users,
19:26
I think only when we do that holistically,
19:28
we we can actually solve the problem because,
19:31
because again, those identities live in so many
19:33
different places, and they suffer from so many,
19:37
different
19:39
limitations in each different system. It it has
19:40
to be solved in a much more generic
19:42
way, which really requires
19:45
almost like rethinking the whole concept of identity
19:48
security. It's it's not
19:50
it's not what what we did for 20
19:53
years is not going to work anymore.
19:55
Right? Well, and it it it seems to
19:57
me that when when when you talk about,
20:00
you know, all the different things on prem,
20:02
cloud, different saas apps.
20:04
And the notion of having, like, a unified
20:07
identity,
20:09
you know, a unified approach to
20:11
managing that.
20:14
It
20:15
remind a little bit... You know, like, we
20:16
we've had the same conversation, you know, in
20:19
in years past regarding
20:21
just endpoints and and and just the visibility...
20:24
You know. So, like, visibility, you, became a
20:26
hot topic, like, 4 or 5 years ago,
20:28
where everyone was talking about comprehensive a visibility
20:30
because it's like, okay. Well, you now you've
20:31
got, you know, devices on prem. You've got
20:34
people working from home. You've got people over
20:36
here logging in. You've got people logging in
20:37
from their mobile devices and it's like, it's
20:39
all of a sudden, you have this, like,
20:41
very
20:42
widely dispersed complex
20:45
attack surface that you don't even know where
20:47
half of it is.
20:48
Exactly.
20:50
Exactly. And and now imagine that every endpoint
20:53
would have its own
20:55
type of endpoint security features that are only,
20:58
you know for, you know, for that type
21:00
of of of laptop. That that is the
21:02
case in identity. That is where the reality
21:04
is today in identity it's
21:06
every type of identity, every type of system
21:08
may have its own a identity security features.
21:11
So it's it's such a mess that
21:14
fixing that is really AAA complex task. You
21:17
know, it's it's
21:19
it's changing the way that these things were
21:21
built
21:22
for so long,
21:23
or, I think in in new areas of
21:26
security, like cloud security, even endpoint security,
21:29
I think things were built
21:31
more properly from the beginning. So,
21:33
identity...
21:34
By the way, that's 1 of the reasons
21:35
why when we started the company, it was
21:37
it was how to even raise money for
21:39
startup in identity security 8 years ago. I
21:41
mean, now it's a hot topic, but
21:43
8 years ago people said, hey, it's an
21:45
old it's an old market, you know, identity.
21:47
Everything has been done, and all these systems
21:49
are the So I think we are reaching
21:51
the point,
21:53
as you said, we're
21:55
it it finally is ready for this. Ready
21:58
for... Okay. We've been doing it. It's like,
22:00
it's too old. It's not going to be
22:01
relevant for the new reality where people are
22:03
working from anywhere, and there's so many identities
22:05
out there and we need to reinvent the
22:07
whole thing.
22:09
But it's...
22:10
So so from for us, it's, like, very
22:12
exciting time because we finally feel like
22:15
the the world and the market understand the
22:18
importance of
22:19
identity security and also the
22:22
the fact that
22:23
it has to be done in a different
22:25
way. Well, and and
22:29
the, you know, like I said, the the
22:30
the visibility is... Is important Like the, yeah.
22:32
The ability to, like,
22:34
you know, somehow
22:36
identify, like, okay. What what accounts are out
22:39
there that that I may not know about.
22:42
I mean, go back a few years, you
22:43
know, with colonial pipeline, and and and I'm
22:46
getting hit with the Ransom attack because of
22:47
a, you know, Zombie Vpn account They forgot
22:49
about.
22:51
You know, that kind of thing, you know,
22:53
is it, you know, is what organizations need
22:56
to be worried about it. And again, you,
22:58
I think... I I think it's I think
23:00
it remains a problem
23:01
that
23:04
most
23:05
organizations have...
23:08
Much
23:09
like, more refined and and expedited processes
23:13
for granting access to things
23:17
and don't do as good of a job
23:19
of
23:20
limiting or that access after the fact.
23:24
Because I think there wasn't enough awareness. Even
23:25
even Colonial pipeline, which is a great example.
23:28
I don't think that people at the time
23:29
thought about this as an identity security
23:32
problem. Right? But when you think about it,
23:34
think about the ransom world.
23:36
If fl
23:38
compromises 1 device, 1 endpoint.
23:41
To most companies, that's not a huge damage,
23:43
You know, 1 end endpoint gets encrypted, that's
23:45
fine.
23:46
What makes it such a disaster is the
23:48
fact that from that end point, the attack
23:50
able to... Spread to all the others. Right?
23:51
All the other computers, all the other server.
23:53
That's what really causes a massive damage. And
23:56
that's all identity.
23:58
That's always done by, you know, finding an
24:00
identity and using that identity to just log
24:02
in to all the other computers. That's what
24:04
happened in Colonial pipeline.
24:06
That what happens depends in in so many
24:07
of these data bridges.
24:09
But people never thought about this as an
24:10
identity issue. They thought about the ransom itself
24:13
as the issue, so they were focused on,
24:15
okay, How do we vendor ransom for meeting
24:17
that 1 device.
24:19
And I think that finally people are realizing,
24:21
okay, 1 device is going vendor to get
24:23
compromised. Like, it might happen no matter what
24:25
we do. And if we can secure identity
24:28
in access, we could limit it to that
24:31
1 device. I'll give you an example,
24:33
just a couple of months ago. We had
24:35
1 of our customers,
24:37
get heat by
24:39
an an attack Group called Cattle Spider. It's
24:42
the group with the detect mgm also.
24:45
So it's another, you know, fortune 500 company
24:47
that works with us financial organization. The ad
24:50
scheduled spider
24:52
the network already. So we're able to compromise
24:55
an account
24:57
with privileges,
24:59
but because of of the way our solution
25:01
works, they couldn't spread anywhere. So they couldn't
25:03
actually cause damage to that company,
25:05
and and even though the huawei in the
25:08
network, no real damage was done, they it
25:10
couldn't move anywhere. And that, I think is
25:13
is...
25:14
Something that people historically never thought about as
25:16
as something that they identity security can achieve.
25:19
But it really can. You can actually prevent
25:22
someone from from spreading a custom to network
25:24
because that's how they always do it.
25:26
Right.
25:29
Well, and, you know, also, I think, you
25:30
know, organizations
25:33
need...
25:35
Yeah. So a lot times, we put a
25:36
lot of we we put a lot of
25:37
responsibility on users. And Not saying users shouldn't
25:39
have some responsibility for being to, you know,
25:42
not click on fishing links or, you know,
25:44
protect their credentials, etcetera. But at the same
25:46
time,
25:47
they're not security professionals. And and so it's
25:49
like, you can only... You can only hold
25:51
them accountable to to a certain extent. And
25:53
then the security still needs to do its
25:54
job.
25:56
But, you know, there was there's a
25:58
report that just came out,
26:00
I'm trying to think of who who did
26:02
it. But
26:04
it was
26:05
they said 78 percent of people are, you
26:07
know, using the same password for for more
26:09
than 1 account.
26:11
52 percent are using it for 3 accounts
26:12
or more...
26:14
You know, and and I, you know, yeah.
26:16
III have say, personally, I'm guilty. I've always
26:18
had this, like, philosophy of
26:21
s my accounts, like, these are the accounts
26:24
that I don't care if you hack, Like,
26:25
if you if you hacking into my Pizza
26:27
Hut account, I don't care.
26:29
You know, it, you know, like they different
26:31
retail accounts like that. I'm like, I don't
26:33
I don't have my credit card stored there,
26:35
all, you know, you...
26:36
Whatever information you can get from that is
26:38
already publicly available. So I'm okay using the
26:41
same password. Now, banks and credit card, that's
26:43
different. I'm gonna... I'm gonna, use, you know,
26:45
unique password
26:46
And the thing is I have, I I
26:48
have a password manager, and I've used last
26:50
pass. I've used keeper. I'm currently using 1
26:52
password. I think they all suck. On on
26:54
on some level.
26:56
Because I feel like I'm constantly having to
26:59
log back into them, and I'm and and
27:01
and for somehow or another, they...
27:03
Those those tools also don't know the current
27:05
password half the time. You know, So I'm
27:07
I'm still constantly having to reset passwords
27:10
because my password manager doesn't know the password.
27:13
1 of the critical things about identity security,
27:15
it has to be very convenient because it's
27:17
1 of the areas of security that really
27:19
makes the end user more than any other.
27:22
Element of cybersecurity. So we we have to
27:25
make it very easy.
27:26
But
27:27
I'll tell you something
27:29
else about when you said about people using
27:32
you know, week password all the same password
27:34
across different systems.
27:35
And, yes, a lot of people are responsible
27:37
like you and they they kind of have
27:39
a strategy and they separate and then they
27:41
think about it,
27:42
but as a company as an employer that
27:45
has, you know, 5000
27:46
employees,
27:47
that's not really really reassuring because it's enough
27:50
to few of them are not as possible,
27:52
and are using those same password that talk
27:54
that they use at home for for the
27:56
private applications,
27:58
and I'm going to get compromised because an
28:00
attacker only need 1
28:01
of my employees to do this mistake. That
28:03
that's the problem of of that companies have
28:05
as opposed to to individuals.
28:08
You know, it's enough for the attacker to
28:09
find 1
28:11
that will make them mistake and and I
28:12
think that's...
28:14
We all know for for years now that
28:16
password that's just not good enough. We need,
28:19
you know, we need some type of protection
28:20
on top, like, multi factor authentication or other
28:23
methods,
28:24
part of it is also visibility like you
28:26
said, we need to... Even if somebody compromised
28:28
1 of the accounts. We need to be
28:30
able to know detect to respond to that
28:32
in real time.
28:34
Ai is not going to make it easier.
28:36
Right? Because
28:37
with with the Ai evolution, attacks are going
28:40
to become more automated, much faster,
28:43
we're going to need to be able to
28:44
identify,
28:46
compromise accounts
28:47
in real time and and and prevent the
28:49
use in real time. It's not going to
28:51
be enough to just. Send you an alert
28:53
because the attackers is just going to be
28:55
too fast to automated it using Ai.
28:58
So I mean, it's it's a it's a
29:00
race Alright? It's it's
29:02
it's interesting, but I I do think that
29:05
the identity market is finally evolving
29:08
to meet.
29:09
These challenges after years of being behind the
29:11
attackers.
29:12
Right. Well, it, like I say, like,
29:15
when it comes to...
29:18
Like identity security for for individuals, especially for
29:20
consumers,
29:24
making it as frictionless as possible is is
29:27
sort of a requirement because people will just
29:29
not do it if they... If it it
29:31
it it seems too up. Now that said,
29:34
I've also said for years that
29:36
people need to get over themselves
29:38
on that front and, you know, implement that
29:41
you factor, implement the multi factor
29:44
because, you know, yes, it adds, you know,
29:46
10 seconds to logging him in but, you
29:48
know, the the the alternative is getting compromised.
29:51
My brother... My brother just had his email
29:53
compromised recently in attackers hijacked his Facebook account
29:55
his Instagram account and started setting out Crypto
29:57
scams and and and whatever else because he
30:00
didn't have any 2 factor authentication on on
30:02
his
30:03
his email.
30:04
I mean, I get
30:06
not regularly regularly, but not infrequently.
30:09
I get notices from,
30:11
Facebook and other things where they're like, hey,
30:13
You know, we saw that you tried to
30:14
log in, you know, please enter your code.
30:17
And I'm like, yeah. That wasn't me.
30:19
You know, and and the thing is that
30:21
I do have those those set up,
30:24
but
30:25
it does... It would be helpful if it
30:28
got...
30:29
Easier or more streamlined still because I have
30:32
some things that wanna, you know, text me
30:34
a code, you know, in many many things
30:35
that wanna send me a code via Sms.
30:38
I've got
30:39
things that are using
30:40
Microsoft authenticator, things that are using Google authenticator
30:43
thing... Yeah. So when when I get the
30:45
request,
30:47
I have to first kinda go... Okay. Which
30:49
of these, like, 5 different things do I
30:50
have? That's the right 1 to authenticate?
30:54
So so 1 of the things that we
30:55
do at Silver is we we help really
30:57
unify and experience across all the different systems
30:59
that the company has right the the the
31:01
on prem ones, the cloud ones all the
31:03
different clouds,
31:04
all the types of identities.
31:06
So it is easier now because you can
31:08
just... You know, you have 1 experience so
31:10
you don't need to do it again and
31:11
again throughout a day.
31:13
The other thing is a lot of very
31:15
critical systems,
31:16
don't support even these most simple contours like
31:19
like multi factor authentication.
31:21
So a lot of very critical systems like,
31:24
you know, some of the applications that just
31:26
happened to be a little older
31:28
or maybe things like remote access to servers
31:31
or, you know, industrial systems or medical systems,
31:35
there are all kinds of critical resources, that
31:37
don't, these controls, that built with just a
31:39
password.
31:41
So 1 of the other things we do
31:42
is we have a way to enable these
31:45
security controls even on those systems or without
31:48
modifying them.
31:49
That was 1 of the things that I
31:51
talked to the law for early customers
31:53
is the fact that we could bring identity
31:55
security to any system, even even these ones,
31:58
and to any identity,
32:00
even, you know, the non human identities or
32:02
the the identities that are very difficult to
32:04
protect. We we have ways of protecting them.
32:07
I think it's it's mostly just about
32:09
identity security everywhere
32:11
because because I think we and also a
32:13
lot of companies now understand that it's it's
32:15
a priority.
32:17
Also, luckily for us
32:19
in a few years ago, we had to
32:21
convince people of that. Now,
32:24
you know, there are more regulations, even cyber
32:26
insurance is now required you to protect identities,
32:29
as a requirement, You know, if you wanna
32:31
get insurance. So
32:33
I think people understand more and more that
32:35
they need to solve the problem. They just
32:37
didn't have any easy and and an effective
32:39
or least way to do it. Right That's
32:41
why I think we really where we really
32:43
build something that is really the leading platform
32:46
in that, you know, in really bringing identity
32:48
security everywhere. Well, it could it it seems
32:51
to me and, correct me if I'm wrong,
32:52
but, like, it seems to be like, this
32:54
is also... This is another area of cybersecurity
32:56
that...
32:58
Has ultimately benefited
33:01
from
33:02
the pandemic from the code because as
33:05
you know, everyone went remote and work from
33:07
home, it made... It forced organizations to kinda
33:10
rethink their security posture. If forced organizations to
33:12
take another look and go. Oh, wait a
33:14
minute. You know, so so
33:16
any organizations who were still left
33:19
in at the beginning of 20 20,
33:22
Stuck in the, like,
33:23
perimeter security Castle mode mind of thinking and
33:27
and thinking, Okay. Well, III don't need to
33:28
worry so much because they're everyone sitting in
33:30
this office
33:31
all of a sudden may I had to
33:32
go oh, wait a minute. I I need
33:34
to have better identity security because now anyone
33:36
can be logging there from anywhere.
33:38
Exactly. So,
33:40
working from anywhere,
33:43
has definitely changed the way people like, they
33:45
understand how better that they have to secure
33:47
identity and access.
33:48
Moving to the cloud is done the same
33:50
because it's now not necessarily in your physical
33:52
data center anymore.
33:54
The use of Iot.
33:56
And and the use of personal devices, you
33:58
know, bring your own device kind of policies.
34:00
All of these things have have changed the
34:02
way people think about identity and access. And
34:04
I organizations now understand it. There's a problem.
34:08
It's just that they talked,
34:10
until now it's a problem. There these too
34:12
complex to solve because, again, you have so
34:15
many systems, so many types of identities,
34:17
they had to
34:19
combine, you know, 567
34:21
different products just in order to solve this
34:23
problem.
34:24
And I think the the next
34:26
step in in evolution is that, you know,
34:29
platforms,
34:30
and this is really really what we are
34:32
focused on, you know, end to end platforms
34:34
of identity security, we just take care of
34:36
this whole problem instead of solving small pieces
34:39
of it. So, you know,
34:41
1
34:42
platform that solves identity security on prem in
34:44
the cloud humans, machines,
34:47
privileged, non privileged, all these different things from
34:49
from 1 product.
34:51
I mean, in other categories of security, like,
34:54
endpoint or cloud or network, it already happened
34:56
years ago. But in identity, it's only now
34:58
finally happening. So it's a it's a pretty
35:00
exciting time to be in identity security. After
35:02
years of
35:03
then it's really being just, you know,
35:06
features in 10 different products.
35:09
It's really becoming a standalone,
35:11
you know, platform.
35:12
Yeah.
35:14
But there's still a lot of challenges to
35:15
to overcome, you know, still a lot of
35:17
things that
35:18
that
35:19
we and every, you know, all the companies
35:21
in this market need to to do.
35:24
But it's but it's exciting. It's really,
35:27
I think 1 of the most interesting problems
35:29
in cyber cybersecurity today.
35:31
Yes. Well, let's
35:34
let's look forward a bit.
35:36
You know,
35:39
in terms of, like, you know, current trends,
35:41
like, where do you see at going? And
35:43
and and what impact, you know, like, it...
35:44
It's touched everything in the world. So what
35:47
impact Do you think,
35:49
you know, generative Ai is going to have
35:51
on
35:52
this problem or the solution?
35:55
So I think that
35:57
Gen ai
35:59
first, as I mentioned, will have
36:01
a lot of impact on the problem because
36:03
identity,
36:05
compromising identities will become much easier. I mean,
36:07
I can I can call you and make
36:10
you, believe that I'm calling from It? I
36:12
can have I can have you know, I
36:14
can sound like your boss, and I can,
36:17
you know, send you fishing emails that are
36:18
much more reliable because all of it is
36:20
is... So customers and and tailored with Ai.
36:24
And and this will only improve.
36:27
But then also the attacks themselves will become
36:29
more and more automated
36:31
faster and faster. So
36:34
you know,
36:35
cybersecurity teams will have no time to to
36:37
look for a lil investigate,
36:39
respond. It will all happen in seconds.
36:42
But Ai can also be a big part
36:44
of the solution. And we're leveraging it a
36:46
lot it can help
36:48
identify those threats,
36:49
will, normally have so much data coming from
36:52
your service security tools that it's it's it's
36:54
impossible to handle. I think that with the
36:56
use of Ai, you can actually digest these
36:58
data and actually find those debts
37:00
in real time and react automatically in real
37:03
time. So it's going to be an arms
37:04
way. So of both sides to to leverage
37:06
Ai.
37:08
The other big thing that I think will
37:09
happen in identity,
37:10
is that, as I mentioned Believe that identity
37:14
infrastructure and identity security will really d couple
37:17
as 2 different categories.
37:19
I don't believe that it will make sense
37:23
for each of the different identity management
37:25
solutions to continue to do security locally only
37:28
within the own island,
37:30
I think that they will have to be
37:34
you know, kind of
37:36
neutral,
37:38
end to end,
37:39
security platforms, for identity, that are
37:43
to which infrastructure you're using just like the
37:45
are for cloud or our endpoint or for
37:47
network,
37:49
so that's another big change.
37:51
I also think that,
37:53
there's a lot
37:55
a lot of focus now and and rightfully
37:57
so
37:58
on,
37:59
non human identities and how to secure them.
38:02
Because we've been we've been securing our time
38:04
to secure human identities for many years. I
38:06
think it's finally the word is realizing that.
38:10
Non human identities or machine identities
38:13
that are that Are used by machines who
38:14
talk to other machines or applications to applications,
38:17
they are becoming a priority because they can't
38:20
do multi factor authentication You know all they
38:23
they they don't have good dumps, so they
38:26
they need to... You need a different approach.
38:28
You need a way to secure those,
38:31
and a lot of companies, and and we've
38:32
been doing this for years, but there a
38:34
lot of new companies are. Starting to tackle
38:35
this problem too.
38:38
But I think that all of these will
38:39
will we'll also go to some consolidation
38:43
And right? I'm just like in any market.
38:44
There will not be... I don't think that
38:45
a few use from now there will be
38:47
different solutions for,
38:49
multi factor authentication and privileged access management.
38:52
And the identity detection response, and non human
38:56
identity security, All all of these things, all
38:58
of these these features will... We're we're just
39:01
kind of converging to into a platform into
39:03
something more consolidated.
39:06
As part of just this market maturing. But
39:08
I think that's that's what customers need
39:10
Right. Well, I'm agree you. So so... Yeah.
39:12
Mean, I if we go, you know, take
39:14
this all the way back to the beginning
39:15
of the conversation when you talked about how,
39:16
like, you know, traditionally identity was... Know, has
39:19
been addressed in the in these silos.
39:21
You know,
39:23
the the
39:25
the word holistic is over overused in our...
39:27
Security, but but the idea
39:29
makes sense. The idea is logical to say,
39:33
it
39:34
You know,
39:35
you know, so even if you you go
39:37
back a couple years, Ga put out their
39:38
their their C tim report for continuous threat
39:41
exposure management and where they basically we're like,
39:43
look, you've got your endpoint security, it's doing
39:46
fine over here doing its thing. You got
39:47
a firewall. It's doing fine doing its thing.
39:49
You've got vulnerability scanners. They're doing fine. Like,
39:51
all of these tools
39:54
do their jobs
39:55
relatively effectively.
39:57
However,
39:59
none of them by themselves,
40:02
is sufficient. You need the whole thing.
40:05
And, you know, and I and I made
40:06
the analogy at the time of that it's,
40:08
like,
40:09
it's like having a toolbox. Like, a hammer
40:12
is great at being a hammer and a
40:14
screwdriver is great at being a screwdriver and
40:16
saw is great at being a saw. But
40:18
you can't build a house with any 1
40:20
of those tools, you need all of those.
40:23
And
40:24
so across the board, whether we're talking about
40:26
endpoint security where we're talking about networks whether
40:28
we're talking about identity security.
40:31
That trend
40:32
is is the prevailing trend to say, well,
40:35
care we need to break down the silos.
40:37
We need to look at the whole threat
40:39
landscape. We need to look at the whole
40:41
attack surface and manage it as 1 because
40:45
attackers are very good at
40:48
just finding the weak link. You know, that
40:50
that that if, you know, if I if
40:52
if I say, okay, well, I've got very
40:53
effective security over here,
40:55
and then the attacker just goes, okay, but
40:57
I'm just coming over here. So, you know,
40:58
whatever.
41:00
Exactly. And I also think that there's all
41:02
there's a little lot of tension
41:04
in general between,
41:05
wanting
41:07
to get, you know, best of breed solutions.
41:09
It's solved, you know, in the best way
41:10
possible, some of these more problems or, you
41:12
know, big platforms that do everything, but maybe
41:15
not as well.
41:17
I kind of view the market around us
41:18
in in 3 layers. It's like you all
41:21
the the this
41:22
this this kind of trade off, where, you
41:25
know, you have the startups that are doing
41:26
very specific things,
41:28
you know, maybe in in our case, it
41:29
could be,
41:31
non human identity security or or It, which
41:34
is identity threat detection response,
41:37
or multi
41:38
authentication or privilege access.
41:40
And then you got the the platforms that
41:42
do something, like identity security that that's a
41:45
real time to right, identity security or you
41:47
got others doing cloud security or endpoint security,
41:50
you know, some of the the bigger categories,
41:52
and they combine all these these smaller things
41:54
within those categories. B And then at the
41:56
top level, you got platforms that are trying
41:58
to do all of cyber security. Right? And
42:00
there are a few of these, you know,
42:01
huge companies.
42:04
I I kind of believe that in this
42:07
trade of between, you know, pest of breed
42:08
and between platforms, I I really believe in
42:11
and we're kind of we are aiming because
42:13
I believe that
42:14
it's how to imagine people trying to do
42:16
all of security with just 1 solution that
42:19
does everything because it's kind of like, putting
42:21
all your eggs in 1 basket. You know,
42:23
if it gets it gets compromised or doesn't
42:25
work. It's a problem.
42:26
It's also how to believe that people will
42:28
buy a hundred different identity, also under different
42:31
cybersecurity products.
42:33
So I think that what will probably happen
42:34
is people will end up with a few
42:37
big identity, you know, an identity security platform
42:40
and a cloud security platform.
42:42
And then, you know, network security, endpoint security,
42:44
data security, the the big elements.
42:48
That... That's what we're trying to be because
42:50
it's. It's it's hard for 1 solution to
42:52
do everything,
42:53
but it's also
42:55
it's also impossible for Cam to handle a
42:58
hundred different products. So we have to find
43:00
the balance thereof, you know,
43:02
what what is... Again, I also don't like
43:04
to say holistic, But what is part that
43:06
is holistic enough to cover at least 1
43:08
big area. Of the problem
43:11
with a solution. But no matter what you
43:13
do it will take a few different solutions
43:15
to to take care of cyber cybersecurity
43:17
and our mission as an indices for all
43:18
of these solutions to also work together. You
43:20
know, I... I'm a big believer in in
43:22
just getting all these different products to integrate
43:25
with each other even if their competitors.
43:27
All the different cyber cybersecurity tools need to
43:29
work together if if you... We we really
43:31
want to to do service to our customers
43:33
and help them.
43:35
Right. Yeah. I mean, I I just... And
43:37
I just had that conversation recently. I mean,
43:38
obviously, you know, platform customization is is a
43:40
is a hot trend and topic.
43:43
And, you know, and I've talked
43:46
I talked with the Ceo recently about their
43:47
platform and and and
43:50
everything you just say kind of platform customization
43:51
versus best of breed
43:53
collection of products.
43:54
And I said, well,
43:56
if you go back 15 years, I feel
43:59
like that was more of an either or
44:03
equation. Like, either you had a platform that
44:05
did everything
44:06
or
44:07
you had these separate tools, but the integration
44:10
was so poor that you couldn't really do
44:12
both. Yes.
44:14
And now I feel like and this isn't
44:16
necessarily a hundred percent true, But I feel
44:18
like, even the companies that are
44:21
building platforms
44:22
and saying, hey, we want... We, you know,
44:24
we think it's a good idea for you
44:25
to... To to to, you know, use our
44:27
platform
44:28
and get the whole scope of things all
44:30
in all in our platform.
44:31
They at least still have better integration than
44:34
they had 15 years ago. So, like, even
44:35
if you have their platform, you could still
44:37
pull in stuff from other tools because that's
44:39
the nature of the world today. Like, these
44:41
things have to be able to talk to
44:42
each other and play with each other Exactly.
44:45
Exactly and Think that,
44:47
you know, a company, a a customer,
44:51
of of ours, they cannot have so many
44:54
different products that that don't work together because
44:56
then
44:57
You know, and the I can we'll always
44:59
find the those blind spots site and and
45:01
the the disconnect between these tools. So... They
45:04
have to work together.
45:05
And,
45:06
I think it's a very interesting
45:08
thing, you know, that that whole platform
45:11
optimization versus, you know, best of breed. I
45:12
think, it's an interesting time to to follow.
45:15
We are
45:16
lucky to be able to,
45:18
kind of
45:19
climb up from from being, you know, the
45:21
daily early stage startup where we we were
45:23
are obviously for years.
45:24
And get to the point where we big
45:26
enough to really go for for a platform
45:27
play, at least in our area of of
45:29
identity security,
45:32
it it's exciting and it's something that
45:35
is a, you know, a pretty interesting experience
45:37
you know to grow from from being a
45:39
start with 1 product into
45:41
at the end of this year, we're going
45:42
to have 7 different product models, in our
45:44
platform. It's it's it's becoming AAA
45:46
whole different type of company.
45:48
Obviously took, you know, a few years of
45:50
of growing and, you know, growing the business
45:52
and building a customer base and, you know,
45:54
raising a lot of money.
45:56
But we are finally at the point where
45:58
where, we we really believe that
46:01
that what we have
46:03
you know, very soon will would be the
46:05
the most comprehensive platform in this category,
46:08
which is something that a few years ago
46:09
when I just started this with my c
46:12
founders we you know, at at the at
46:14
our best dreams, we hope to maybe build
46:17
a good solution for 1 of these of
46:18
these sub
46:20
categories?
46:21
You can't even any imagine building something big
46:23
like this.
46:25
But
46:26
but I'm glad because right we started pretty
46:29
early,
46:30
with this power of identity security. And now
46:32
that it is hot, we... We've already been
46:34
investing in it for hey, 8 deals. So
46:36
so we have this opportunity to maybe
46:39
build something to dis really the the leading
46:40
platform.
46:42
And,
46:43
it's,
46:45
yeah, very interesting time to be
46:47
in this market and and cybersecurity in general,
46:50
I think that
46:51
not only because of Ai, but in general,
46:53
everything that is happening in the world today
46:55
is is really making this problem even more
46:57
and more
46:59
important, which is
47:02
which is really
47:04
interesting to be,
47:06
especially for me being originally from the offense
47:08
side and now the defense, it's it's
47:11
it's a very
47:13
very interesting
47:15
market to be it. Yeah. Well, and so...
47:18
Yeah. I don't, you know, wrap up this
47:20
see, you know, thank you for your time,
47:21
but I wanted to to to point out,
47:24
you,
47:26
that it you're... You, I think you're an
47:28
example of the the the sort of
47:32
maxim or whatever of,
47:35
you know, there's there's a lot of... There's
47:37
a lot of hard work and effort that
47:38
goes into becoming an overnight success. You know,
47:41
So I was like, some some people might
47:43
go, oh, so for. I haven't really heard
47:44
of them. Know, where they come from? But,
47:47
you know, it's because you you you you
47:49
had the foresight 8 years ago to say,
47:52
hey. This is a problem we need to
47:53
fix. And now that the world is catching
47:55
up going, oh, yeah. That is a problem
47:56
we should fix. You know, suddenly, it looks
47:58
like, you know, you're you're you're a genius.
48:02
It it definitely wasn't overnight success, and I
48:04
tell people especially entrepreneurs who get started. It...
48:07
It's very, very hard. How do than I
48:09
imagined and I think anyone.
48:12
We was going into this,
48:14
even the ones who pretend, like, it's super
48:15
easy and everything just works
48:17
yeah, easily for them. I think that it's...
48:19
It's generally just a very hard task to
48:21
to build a company like this, especially to
48:23
to to des scale. Right. And over the
48:25
rest,
48:26
8 years, we did work very hard to
48:29
to build this even in times where people
48:31
didn't understand why this is needed and why
48:33
this is important.
48:35
And now, luckily for us, you know, the
48:37
market is really booming for identity security and
48:39
we are in the place where we are
48:41
really positioned to be a market leader and,
48:43
you know, we raised
48:45
220000000
48:46
dollars, and we have... We're adding, like, more
48:48
than a hundred new customers every record. So
48:50
we are we are actually at a at
48:51
a size where we can we can go
48:53
for it. We can capture that opportunity, But
48:55
it's only because we spent so many years,
48:58
you know, of of, you know, blood sweat
49:01
until trying to build this when when nobody
49:03
thought it's interesting. So that we can finally
49:05
be in the right position when when it
49:06
becomes interesting. And that's...
49:08
I'll, I'll be on the last 1 to
49:10
pretend, like, that's just an easy
49:12
thing that we knew we knew is coming
49:14
and was super
49:15
smooth, It it wasn't. It was... It took
49:17
a lot of hard work, and then all
49:19
of the effort of so many people.
49:23
But it's
49:24
but it's great. And it's it's exciting to
49:26
to finally be in this position where we
49:28
can actually be, or, the leader of such
49:30
a big category.
49:32
Because of all that investment, so it... It's
49:35
it's definitely... Was definitely was it.
49:37
Awesome.
49:38
Alright. Well, thank you for, taking the time
49:41
to chat, and it was a good good
49:43
conversation, And you know, I'll I'll I will
49:45
look forward to seeing you know, what what
49:47
you guys do next.
49:49
Thank you very much for, ef finding me.
49:51
Great talking to you.
49:56
Okay I appreciate you investing your time to
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50:01
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