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Wet Hot American Summers · Politix

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Megyn Kelly used the term barely legal,
• 0:02
  which is a misunderstanding of what that means because she's
• 0:05
  talking about barely
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: illegal.
• 0:07
  Hey,
• 0:13
  everyone,
• 0:13
  you're listening to a free preview of the politics podcast.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's dirty laundry week here in Washington, D.C.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also the Epstein files are coming out.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or are they?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: The House will vote to release them.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Donald Trump's coalition is crumbling over it.
• 0:30
  And the first clear picture of Jeffrey Epstein's relationships
• 0:32
  with American and
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: global elites is finally starting to emerge.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if you ever got an email from him or sent him one,
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: check your inbox,
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Larry Summers,
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: then upgrade your subscription to paid at politics.fm.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Politics Podcast.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Brian Boyler.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Matthew Glacius.
• 0:56
  So remember how last week the Democrats caved in the government
• 0:59
  shutdown fight and
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: it was like the end of the world,
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  but now nobody even remembers because Jeffrey Epstein wrote an
• 1:05
  email that said
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  of course Donald Trump knew about all the underage girls and
• 1:10
  then he spent time
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  SPEAKER_00: with one of them at my house alone a lot.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't recall.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we are back.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: We are back to the.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: The Epstein files.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: We are stuff.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: We love it.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm more puzzled than ever about what.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: to expect because this email trove,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: while,
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
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  SPEAKER_01: fascinating and suggestive,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: it like,
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  SPEAKER_01: it doesn't say Donald Trump was doing sex crimes with Jeffrey Epstein.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, well, okay, look, Donald, Donald Trump is like intuited the lesson.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: You don't take notes on a criminal conspiracy.
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  Jeffrey Epstein was like a little less,
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  uh,
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  careful about this stuff,
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  but,
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  um,
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  SPEAKER_00: I he didn't really go into like graphic detail about.
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  SPEAKER_00: He spoke around the edges of his crimes,
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  SPEAKER_00: even when Donald Trump wasn't the subject of the emails.
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  So I'm not like I don't feel like it's this positive that that
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  means that,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: Trump didn't.
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  have sex with somebody who was underage or maybe somebody whose
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  age he wasn't
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  SPEAKER_00: certain of like,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's not,
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  it's not clear from the tranche of emails that that was the
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  kind of thing Jeffrey
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  SPEAKER_00: Epstein was taking account of.
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  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying anything is just positive.
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  SPEAKER_01: I just mean that like,
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  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of intrigue in this email trove,
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
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  We knew factually already that like Jeffrey Epstein and Donald
• 2:53
  Trump had some kind
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  SPEAKER_01: of longstanding social acquaintance.
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  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we just seem to be seeing that again.
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  SPEAKER_01: Trump has been acting up until...
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  A day and a half ago,
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  like incredibly sweaty and nervous about these documents.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I am eager, eager to see what they contain ultimately.
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  Or as Mark Epstein is suggesting,
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  they're being wiped in a secret database in West Virginia.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think it's totally possible.
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  SPEAKER_00: There's a comedian who I really like named Emily Catalano,
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  SPEAKER_00: and she has this bit that I'll probably mangle.
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  SPEAKER_00: About how like she's like, I really want the Epstein files to come out.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then she traps the audience into being like,
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  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  and we want there to be a lot of pedophilia in Epstein files
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  because like we want
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  SPEAKER_00: Donald Trump to get in trouble.
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  SPEAKER_00: But of course,
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  that means that at some level we're rooting for there to be
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  more victims of
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  horrible crimes and that we're all going around the horseshoe
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  to where we're so
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  SPEAKER_00: anti pedophilia.
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  SPEAKER_00: That we're pro pedophilia.
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  SPEAKER_00: Anyway,
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  I'm going to put that in the show notes so that nobody thinks
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  that I'm making it up
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  SPEAKER_00: or actually rooting for anyone to have been victimized by anyone.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it's a good bit.
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  SPEAKER_01: Good call.
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  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
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  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
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  SPEAKER_00: I do think I want to say another thing is that it's important.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like you're right and we'll get to Trump's like,
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  SPEAKER_00: quote unquote,
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  SPEAKER_00: like flip on on releasing the Epstein files.
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  But I think that like the timeline here is instructive and like
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  being specific
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  SPEAKER_00: about what has come out over the last week is also instructive.
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  Because Trump was highly resistant to this effort by the by the
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  House to force the
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  SPEAKER_00: Justice Department to release their criminal case file on Epstein.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so when we you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: when we convened last week,
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  we were anticipating that with the House coming back because
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  the government
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  SPEAKER_00: shutdown was ending,
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  Adelita Gajalva would become the 218th signer of the discharge
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  petition to force a
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  SPEAKER_00: vote on that bill.
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  What we have learned since then is that Trump basically
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  instructed Pam Bondi and
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  Kash Patel and other people totally inappropriate to the
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  circumstance to pull one
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  SPEAKER_00: of the Republican signers,
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  SPEAKER_00: Lauren Boebert,
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  into the White House situation room and try to twist her arm to
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  remove her name
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  SPEAKER_00: from the petition like this.
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  SPEAKER_00: This shows real desperation to keep the files hidden.
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  SPEAKER_00: They didn't.
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  SPEAKER_00: The petition reached 218 signatures, at which point it's done.
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  So the vote was going to happen and it was clear there was
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  going to be a jailbreak.
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  SPEAKER_00: and Donald Trump continued to be highly resistant.
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  SPEAKER_00: He attacked Marjorie Taylor Greene.
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  SPEAKER_00: He basically severed his political alliance with her.
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  SPEAKER_00: He has long since severed his political alliance with Tom Massey,
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  SPEAKER_00: who kind of got this ball rolling for Republicans,
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  SPEAKER_00: but he went after him again.
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  SPEAKER_00: So he's still,
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  SPEAKER_00: at this juncture,
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  SPEAKER_00: clearly upset about the Justice Department's Epstein files coming out.
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  Against that backdrop,
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  a bunch of emails come out and I've seen people screw this up.
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  They say that these are the Epstein files and it's possible
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  that they're part of
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  SPEAKER_00: the Epstein files,
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  SPEAKER_00: but they came from Jeffrey Epstein's estate.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like they're his emails.
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  And there's a bunch of incriminating things that we already
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  alluded to about Donald
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  SPEAKER_00: Trump in them.
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  SPEAKER_00: And he's like named more than anyone else.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it's telling to me because it's not like Donald Trump was like,
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  SPEAKER_00: okay,
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  SPEAKER_00: well,
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  SPEAKER_00: now the worst of it is out there.
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  And so whatever,
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  the Justice Department can just release the rest of them.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: He continued to be like, oh, shit.
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  So I think it's a safe presumption based on this fact pattern
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  that unless they've
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  SPEAKER_00: been destroyed,
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  the government's Epstein files contain yet more damning
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  information about Donald
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  SPEAKER_00: Trump than that we don't know.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that appears to be.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, again, like you don't know what you don't know.
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  SPEAKER_01: But Trump was worked hard.
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  SPEAKER_01: to block this vote.
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  And we know that he was working really hard because he just
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  normally doesn't need
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  SPEAKER_01: to work that hard to whip up House vote on the Republican side.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know,
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's rare to see this level of effort,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: going into things and phone calls and pressure,
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  SPEAKER_01: et cetera,
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  SPEAKER_01: et cetera,
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  SPEAKER_01: et cetera.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it didn't work.
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  And then eventually,
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  when it became clear he wasn't going to prevail,
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  he flipped.
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  SPEAKER_01: He said, OK, like, let's release them.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then he finally pulled a
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  SPEAKER_01: A Trump move,
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  which was like he named several Democrats who are known to have
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  been Epstein
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  SPEAKER_01: associates.
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  SPEAKER_00: There were people in these emails like who exchanged emails with Epstein.
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  SPEAKER_01: But also just,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_01: we've had awareness for years now of,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: broadly speaking,
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  SPEAKER_01: the Epstein universe of,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: prominent people who knew him and hung out with him.
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  SPEAKER_01: And Trump was like,
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  SPEAKER_01: OK,
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  SPEAKER_01: we need to have an investigation of,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: Bill Clinton,
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  SPEAKER_01: Larry Summers,
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  SPEAKER_01: and what's his name?
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  SPEAKER_01: Reid Hoffman, the LinkedIn guy.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's like the normal Trump way of handling a situation.
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  SPEAKER_01: Just be like, plow ahead, investigate, etc.
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  SPEAKER_01: We should we should talk about summers because, you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: Let's put it this way.
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  SPEAKER_00: Let's put it this way.
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  SPEAKER_00: Trump named these three prominent Democrats.
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  SPEAKER_00: Hoffman is a Democratic donor,
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  SPEAKER_00: Bill Clinton,
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  SPEAKER_00: former Democratic president,
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  SPEAKER_00: Larry Summers,
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  former Democratic Treasury secretary and various high level
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  government jobs and
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  SPEAKER_00: Harvard president.
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  SPEAKER_00: And Bill Clinton and Reid Hoffman responded the way
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  SPEAKER_00: people who didn't do anything wrong respond.
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  SPEAKER_00: Hoffman was like, this is bullshit.
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  SPEAKER_00: Stop framing me up.
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  SPEAKER_00: Release all the files.
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  Like,
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  I'm not lying about the fact that my interactions with Epstein
• 8:41
  were incidental.
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  SPEAKER_00: And Bill Clinton said something similar.
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  It's like,
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  even Epstein said,
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  I was never at the island and I didn't do anything wrong.
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  SPEAKER_00: And this is part of a cover-up.
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  Larry Summers went to ground for several days and then emerged
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  to be all sheepishly
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm so embarrassed by my behavior.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well...
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_01: the other thing is that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: even the people who don't like Reid Hoffman,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think are glad that he gives money to Democratic super PACs.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like he was a significant donor to the Prop 50 initiative,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: that just passed in California.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, people have.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: various disagreements with him, but broadly liked partisan Democrat.
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  SPEAKER_01: Bill Clinton,
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  SPEAKER_01: a controversial figure in numerous different ways,
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  but seems to have achieved emeritus status to the point where
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  people aren't really
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  SPEAKER_01: complaining about him.
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  SPEAKER_01: Also,
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  The marginal value of a sex scandal about Bill Clinton is low
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  at this point,
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  SPEAKER_01: given the broader history.
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  SPEAKER_01: Whereas,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  Summers is a very contentious figure in Democratic Party
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  factional politics,
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  SPEAKER_01: has been for a very long time,
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  SPEAKER_01: has been the target of—
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  A lot of criticism from the left,
• 10:00
  you know,
• 10:01
  that's like about public policy and vice versa.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: he was critical of the Biden administration's American recovery plan,
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: said that it would be inflationary and that this would be a big problem.
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  SPEAKER_01: A lot of pushback, a lot of, you know.
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  When Lael Brainard was being considered to be the Biden
• 10:24
  administration's Treasury
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Secretary,
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: right,
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  there was a lot of pushback against her from the left on the
• 10:31
  grounds that she was
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: had like been a protege of Summers's 15 years earlier.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:39
  I feel like it's worth distinguishing between the things that
• 10:42
  caused Larry Summers
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: to be a controversial figure,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: because I think that,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  the first thing a lot of people ever heard about Larry Summers
• 10:51
  was were the remarks
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  he gave about women's mathematical acuity when he was president
• 10:55
  the first time.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I believe,
• 10:58
  is the basis for the original basis for his animosities with
• 11:02
  Elizabeth Warren long
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: before she became a senator.
• 11:05
  Because she was a law professor at Harvard and there was a big
• 11:08
  backlash among the
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: faculty to what he had said.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: OK, so.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: But there's I mean, you could you could quit with this one.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there's his there's his controversial polemics.
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  There's the the big error that he made when he was Obama's top
• 11:25
  economic advisor was on the.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: how the politics of Congress work,
• 11:29
  and he essentially convinced Obama to underbid himself in
• 11:33
  devising a stimulus that
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: turned out to be critical to the politics of the Obama era.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: It came in too small.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: The recovery was long and slow,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: and a lot of people blame Larry and other economic advisors in the Obama
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: administration for that mistake.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's separately the question of neoliberalism versus...
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: OK,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've got to go like way,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: way,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: way back on this,
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: because,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Summers was the this is before our time.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: But my first boss in political journalism,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Bob Kuttner,
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: is a longtime Larry Summers hater,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: going back to before any of this shit happened.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: He was undersecretary of Treasury for International Affairs.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: In the Clinton administration.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So was a big proponent of NAFTA,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: of Chinese accession to the World Trade Organization,
• 12:32
  and therefore a big antagonist of the kind of like labor union
• 12:36
  wing of the
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Democratic Party associated at that time with like Dick Gephardt,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: other people in Congress.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Big,
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: big,
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: big argument about this,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: about Summers and about Robert Rubin,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: who was Summers' predecessor as Treasury Secretary.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then Summers was Treasury Secretary at the very end of the Clinton
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: administration when the Graham-Leach-Bliley Act passed,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: which had various different provisions.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: But one of them related to the regulation, or lack thereof, of...
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: currency swaps and other kinds of financial derivatives,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: put them under the heading of the Commodity Future Trading Corporation,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: kind of agricultural backwater,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I would not say like a large number of people care about any of this,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: but the people who do care,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: cared a lot,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And was the beginning of a significant grudge.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Then he was president of Harvard.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is not before my time because I was covering the Harvard University
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: administration at this point.
• 13:46
  And he had a lot of different fights with the more left-wing
• 13:50
  faculty about all
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: kinds of things,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: about,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know...
• 13:54
  the disposition of the African-American studies program about
• 13:57
  grade inflation,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: about,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: like where science labs were going to be located.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was really contentious year.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, at which point he also said that, um,
• 14:11
  He didn't think there would ever be gender parity in tenured
• 14:14
  STEM faculty because
• 14:16
  there are fewer women who are like right tail outliers in
• 14:19
  mathematical ability.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: So he got fired from his Harvard job after that.
• 14:24
  And the anti Summers people were like,
• 14:26
  all right,
• 14:27
  like we got this guy on the run.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like we were mad at him over some obscure shit.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: But like now he just blew up over something that like.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's very simple and straightforward.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then Barack Obama defeated Hillary Clinton in 2008.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like even more excitement,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: right,
• 14:44
  that like like the beast of Clintonism and like Rubin Summers
• 14:50
  economic policy was
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: going to be slain.
• 14:53
  But then Obama just like brought Summers back in as a top
• 14:56
  economic policy guy.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And also Jason Furman,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: who had worked in the Clinton administration,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera.
• 15:03
  And so then there's a new set of economic policy disputes about
• 15:06
  the scale of the
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: stimulus,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera.
• 15:08
  I think that if you read the Summers memo about the stimulus
• 15:12
  bill,
• 15:13
  it doesn't.
• 15:15
  It holds up better than a lot of the retelling would lead some
• 15:20
  people to believe.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: At any rate.
• 15:24
  The point is,
• 15:25
  he's a guy who people have a lot of public policy beefs with.
• 15:30
  So when he's also he's also simultaneously a guy who people in
• 15:35
  liberal politics get
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: seduced by because he's like he has a lot of horsepower in his brain,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: whether he has good judgment or not.
• 15:42
  And I think that this is part of the reason why Obama was drawn
• 15:45
  to him was not
• 15:46
  necessarily Obama having like choosing sides in the in the like
• 15:52
  Summers V whoever
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: fight.
• 15:54
  But just like Obama liked credentialed people with large
• 15:57
  intellects and like that
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Larry Summers fit the bill.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: he's a real academic economist with like a bona fide career,
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: like publishing papers and doing hard math,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: as well as a real political operator.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Janet Yellen, like...
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of, you know, crossed those lines.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: But even though she actually,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: held all the top jobs in economic policy,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: was,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: never very politically adept,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: and,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: in a certain way was,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: not that influential as Treasury Secretary in particular.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think she was just trying to do the job assigned to her rather than—
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: they had a lot of struggles over there,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: at the Yellen Treasury,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: but sort of like winning arguments.
• 16:49
  And Summers is both like a smart guy with a strong academic
• 16:52
  reputation and also
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: like a real like bureaucratic knife fighter,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: who a lot of people,
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: he had a lot of influence.
• 17:02
  Point is,
• 17:03
  when Trump goes after him,
• 17:05
  the impulse on the left is not to,
• 17:07
  you
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like even more so than when Trump went after Comey.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like the real impulse of love is like, fuck this guy.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've been trying to get rid of him for a million years.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hang on, hang on, hang on.
• 17:21
  Jim Comey got indicted and we haven't even really said what
• 17:24
  Summers quote unquote
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: did in these emails,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: which is gross,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: but is definitely not a crime.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think that if,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: if,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: if,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:34
  this SDNY prosecutor were to gin up some like false allegation
• 17:39
  against Summers and
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: indict him,
• 17:42
  people would do the same sort of reluctant closing of ranks
• 17:46
  around Summers because
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: you can't allow the rule of law to slip that much.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: But for now,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: it's just like,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 17:55
  we have Larry Summers in an even more politically compromising
• 17:59
  position than we had
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: him in when he made the remarks about women at Harvard.
• 18:03
  He's in these files basically leaning on Jeffrey Epstein for
• 18:07
  advice on how to
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: seduce a younger mistress.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Not like underage mistress, but just like a former student, right?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And... Okay, so yeah, so I mean...
• 18:20
  I feel like I don't want to say that this is worse than doing
• 18:23
  actual crimes because it's not.
• 18:25
  But it's like it's much more embarrassing,
• 18:28
  I think,
• 18:29
  than being caught doing crimes.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there's a pathetic loser element of it.
• 18:34
  And then there's like also if you're a smart guy like Larry
• 18:36
  Summers and you want
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: tips on how to be charming,
• 18:40
  then like maybe don't go to the guy who like trafficked
• 18:45
  teenagers and try to find
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: an actual like Lothario.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So this is like, you know, I mean, one of them, this is a 2019 email.
• 18:54
  And so there's a there's a woman who is considerably younger
• 18:58
  than Summers,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: but like not per se super young,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: like late 30s,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:03
  like economics professor who Summers knows and has like a
• 19:08
  professional relationship
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: with.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess has been reading between lines.
• 19:12
  It seems like he'd been having like an on again,
• 19:14
  off again affair with her.
• 19:16
  And he is repeatedly hitting Epstein up for relationship advice
• 19:22
  and like literally
• 19:24
  like forwarding some of her emails to Epstein so that like he
• 19:28
  can read them and
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: give him advice.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And how to respond.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he's saying things like.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: We talked on the phone.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Then she said, I can't talk later.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Don't think I can talk tomorrow.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I said, what are you up to?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: She said, I'm busy.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I said, awfully coy you are.
• 19:43
  And then I said,
• 19:43
  did you really rearrange the weekend we were going to be
• 19:45
  together?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because guy number three was coming.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: She said, no, his schedule changed after we changed our plans.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I said, OK, got to go.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Call me when you feel like it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: But the tone wasn't good.
• 19:56
  I don't want to be in a gift-giving competition while being the
• 19:59
  friend without benefits.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So he's just like, I don't know, like...
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: He's hard up about this girl.
• 20:06
  And he's Epstein at this point has already done the sweetheart
• 20:12
  plea deal in Florida.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like,
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:17
  you could say you don't know like all the worst there is to
• 20:21
  know about Jeffrey
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Epstein.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: But he's still like your friend, the sex criminal.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the guy Summers is turning to for advice.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 20:32
  I guess because if you're looking for somebody who's going to
• 20:34
  be nonjudgmental
• 20:36
  about your plan to conduct like a transatlantic affair with a
• 20:40
  former student of
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: yours,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Jeffrey Epstein,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: the sex criminal is like probably,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: not going to be like,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: maybe like don't break up your marriage.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I mean, there's a world in which in which.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Larry,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Larry Summers,
• 20:55
  like many people who were just like collateral damage to the
• 20:59
  Epstein scandal
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: because Epstein had a lot of money and he was like,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: if you had a charity,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: you're Bill Gates or whatever.
• 21:04
  And you hear about this rich guy and then you like have a
• 21:07
  meeting with him and now
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: you're in his emails.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like really unfortunate because now it looks like you were
• 21:13
  consorting with a guy who turned out to be a sex criminal and
• 21:16
  you have to plead
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: your case to the public.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was just trying to raise money for my nonprofit.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Larry Summers could be that guy but for Harvard because,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: he hit Epstein up for money for Harvard,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there are these other emails in there.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then he separately could have,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: been,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: a loser with women and,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 21:37
  writing emails to some normal guy who's just better with women
• 21:42
  about how to,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: have an affair on,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: cheat on his wife with this woman.
• 21:47
  colleague and it would still be sad sack stuff but it wouldn't
• 21:51
  be a like i you know
• 21:54
  what probably politically political career ending crisis for
• 21:58
  him but he he made the
• 22:00
  judgment call that i'm going to continue a some kind of social
• 22:05
  relationship with a
• 22:06
  guy i know to be a sex criminal that seems to be because he
• 22:10
  thought he could get
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: like tips on how to
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: how to land ladies from that guy.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's, that's worse than bad.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what do you even say about it?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's, it's that it's not bad.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: because as you're saying,
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: you look at like to Bill Clinton stuff going all the way back,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: like Clinton Epstein.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's like no great mystery,
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 22:35
  why you might maintain a social relationship with a guy who
• 22:37
  gives you like free
• 22:38
  rides on his private jet and donates money to the foundation
• 22:42
  that you run.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right now,
• 22:43
  you might say it was poor judgment to accept free rides on a
• 22:47
  private jet or even
• 22:48
  money for my charitable foundation from this guy because he's a
• 22:51
  sex criminal.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: But also like people do things for money all the time.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's life.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, but I also think I also I also think that it is possible.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know.
• 23:00
  Maybe when you're that rich,
• 23:02
  somebody does due diligence on everyone you interact with.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And all these guys knew about the first Florida investigation.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I honestly,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: like in 2007,
• 23:11
  eight had never heard of Jeffrey Epstein and probably didn't
• 23:14
  hear about him like
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: and have an under clear picture in my head of what the story was until I.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Seven or eight years later.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: So like the people in this interim from 2000,
• 23:24
  I feel like there is like genuine plausible deniability that
• 23:28
  they had any idea that
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: this guy had this sordid history.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we shall see.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: But by 2019, that's not the case.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: it was Larry Epstein is presumably pretty good friends with Bill Clinton,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: who I think has a decent track record of picking up chicks.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: if he wanted advice on picking up chicks,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: he could have asked his non-sex criminal friend,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Bill Clinton.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're just people out there.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, non-sex criminal, who's to say?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it's true.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, you know what I'm getting at?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 24:00
  there are other people in the world who could have provided
• 24:03
  Summers this kind of
• 24:05
  like tips on on like how to prosecute this affair without
• 24:10
  leaning on the last
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: possible guy you should have ever done that with.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Although, I mean, who knows?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe he was consulting quite widely.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I should say I have received emails from Larry Summers over the years,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: always about questions of macroeconomic management.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Never about ladies questions.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, nothing like that.
• 24:30
  He has neither given nor solicited any advice from me about
• 24:34
  relationships with women.
• 24:36
  Only some takes about inflation,
• 24:39
  unemployment,
• 24:40
  fiscal and monetary issues,
• 24:42
  et cetera,
• 24:43
  et cetera.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is oddly suspicious.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: in the interest of full disclosure,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: in case it comes out,
• 24:51
  he also seems to have emailed me from a different address than
• 24:54
  the one he used with
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Epstein's,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: though.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I am sure that at some point in my career,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: I exchanged an email with him about some story or other,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: but I have no recollection.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've ever met him in person.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank God, because he.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: so I actually want to make a semi serious point about this,
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: because like,
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: as you say,
• 25:17
  the people on his factional enemies within the Democratic Party
• 25:21
  are having a field
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: day with this.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like, it's kind of hard to blame them.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a much quieter universe of people,
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: not you because you're here on the podcast,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: like just going through it all with me,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: but people who are Summers stans,
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: like admirers of Larry Summers,
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: people who have worked with him in administrations or in economics or as
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: journalists.
• 25:45
  who don't seem ready to reconcile themselves with the fact that
• 25:50
  this is like a
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: cancelable offense.
• 25:55
  If this was 2018,
• 25:56
  he would have been a foregone conclusion that this was the end,
• 26:01
  right?
• 26:01
  I feel like there's not a lot of defenses of Larry Summers out
• 26:04
  there on the internet.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that there are defenses.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying that there's a lot of strategic silence.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Look, look, look.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: I can empathize with the idea that somebody who's a mentor,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: somebody you admire a lot,
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: you find out something that really sucks about their behavior,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: and you don't want to,
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 26:24
  be the tip of the spear because in the past he's done right by
• 26:27
  you or whatever
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: else.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if the factional fighting...
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Does matter to the extent that it matters.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that people in that position should really feel like.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: For the sake of.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: like prevailing in that fight,
• 26:45
  we need to speak with one voice about how unacceptable this is
• 26:50
  and say it's the end
• 26:51
  of the Larry Summers era because like there are other good
• 26:55
  economists who didn't
• 26:56
  have this kind of relationship with Jeffrey Epstein who can
• 26:59
  like take the,
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: take the torch,
• 27:01
  take the baton from Summers and promote whatever kind of
• 27:04
  economics they want.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if there's this kind of like,
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: this clear-eyed moral case against him over here from your enemies in the
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: neo-brandeisian movement or whatever,
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: and over here,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: everyone's just kind of like,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: ugh,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: don't want to stick my neck out.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to be, people will notice.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it would be,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just think,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 27:29
  especially we do seem to be headed into a period where if
• 27:34
  Democrats are able to
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: regroup and come back to power,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: the economic policy consensus is going to be different than it was.
• 27:43
  And you're going to have a more populist party in economic
• 27:46
  terms than you did under
• 27:48
  Obama or under Clinton and probably even under Biden with a
• 27:52
  broader range of like
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: cultural positions,
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to temper that,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to temper that,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: you need credible figures to be the brain trust.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so you need to kick Larry Summers out.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, he's old and this is over anyway.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 28:12
  something that I think is interesting about this is that the
• 28:14
  interpersonal feuds
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: like never die.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: He really rubs people the wrong way.
• 28:19
  But the actual content of what people are arguing about has
• 28:22
  completely changed.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And like the original like left wing beef with Larry Summers.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: was very much about trade.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And on that topic, it's the opposite.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the tides of history are clearly swimming in his direction.
• 28:39
  And the congressional Democrats and mainstream Democrats are
• 28:43
  becoming much more
• 28:44
  hostile to tariffs and trade barriers and protectionism as a
• 28:48
  result of Donald
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Trump,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 28:51
  And there's now this big dispute about antitrust and monopoly
• 28:55
  and so on and so forth.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: if you look at the record,
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 29:00
  Summers was a leading early legitimator of the idea that
• 29:05
  there's like a big
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: monopolization problem in the United States of America.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, it's true.
• 29:10
  The torch of that idea is now entirely carried by people who
• 29:13
  hate Summers and who
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: deep down agree with Donald Trump about trade policy.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: But like, you know...
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: It is what it is.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think all these people are really fucking stupid and it's going to be a
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: catastrophe for the country when they run economic policy.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, we'll just have to see what happens.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 29:31
  what you I think what you want you is that if if if they form
• 29:36
  the locus of policy
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: power in the next Democratic administration,
• 29:41
  that you would like the president who brings them in to also
• 29:44
  bring in people who
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: see things the way you do.
• 29:49
  I would like the next person to bring in just like literally
• 29:51
  anyone who has like
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: any fucking idea what they're talking about,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: which is not those guys.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: But like they won't.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I agree with you about this.
• 30:01
  Like the next Democratic administration economic policy is
• 30:04
  going to be run by fucking morons.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's just going to happen one way or the other.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:12
  I think that's not a foregone conclusion and you're just salty
• 30:15
  at people that you
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: beef with online.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I am.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: About stadium beer.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm saying.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're idiots who have like no grasp of the substance of anything.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I hope some of these people are deeply dishonest.
• 30:32
  And that's what gives me some hope in life is like maybe
• 30:36
  they're just lying for
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: power,
• 30:37
  which is fine because then they'll attain power and can try to
• 30:40
  do a good job.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think one day we should do like a like you should in the green room,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: like scream about like get it all out.
• 30:51
  And then we record and we try to break down the neolib verse
• 30:58
  post neolib fight.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to do like so that people understand a show about politics,
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: though,
• 31:05
  because like I don't think that this dispute is relevant to any
• 31:09
  of the political
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: issues.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: in the universe.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like Matt Stoller and I hate each other,
• 31:15
  but like we're actually quite aligned on like the big political
• 31:18
  question of the
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: day,
• 31:19
  which is that Democrats need to be more moderate on cultural
• 31:21
  issues and just like
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: talk about some cost of living nonsense.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 31:26
  we have like some very profound disagreements about like how
• 31:28
  you should actually
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: govern the country.
• 31:30
  But like we're like peas in the pod in terms of like what does
• 31:34
  an opposition party need to do?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that this
• 31:39
  It might be a little perspective,
• 31:41
  but understanding the ideas animating post-neoliberalism.
• 31:46
  I think that there's a strong case and a weak case for what
• 31:49
  they're up to.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And explaining it and then hearing from you about it would be,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: would be educating for our listeners.
• 32:01
  It might be our worst performing episode,
• 32:03
  but I don't think we shouldn't do it for that reason.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we do it over the holidays.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: A little Christmas takes.
• 32:11
  But so I do think that we should try to refocus this somewhere
• 32:15
  on Donald Trump
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: because Donald Trump is trying to cover up something.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's take a break.
• 32:22
  I was actually thinking that we were going to do this by
• 32:24
  talking about Trump and then.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then putting all the Larry Summers dirty laundry.
• 32:29
  Well,
• 32:29
  no,
• 32:29
  because we actually know facts about the Larry Summers
• 32:32
  situation,
• 32:33
  right?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, I know maybe there's more in the files, right?
• 32:36
  But like,
• 32:37
  there's like enough information revealed in the email release
• 32:42
  to get Summers.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Summers,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think we should actually say what happened,
• 32:45
  which is that Summers appears to be trying to voluntarily step
• 32:49
  down from his
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: various issues.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: board affiliations to avoid getting fired.
• 32:57
  He wants to continue teaching,
• 32:58
  which strikes,
• 32:59
  it's not,
• 33:00
  that can't be tenable,
• 33:01
  I don't think.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: He could be somebody's private tutor,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: but like,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: based on everything you know about Larry Summers,
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: if you're a female undergraduate economics major at Harvard,
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: and you find out that your class is being taught by Larry Summers,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: are you certain that you're going to get a fair shake?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, this has always been... I mean, I don't know.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see what happens.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be pretty...
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be pretty displeased if that happened to me.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: I just think the bar for like firing professors is super duper high.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't know.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: if they want to,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: if they want to,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: titularly keep him on as emeritus,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think that like,
• 33:47
  having him interact with students and having any control over
• 33:50
  their academic
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: futures is not tenable,
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: but we'll see.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see what happens.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to Donald Trump and like what we think is going to happen.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like as we record this today,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: the vote hasn't happened,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: but by the time you hear this,
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: it will have.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then, and then there's some uncertainty.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll talk about all of that on the other side.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to hear that part of the conversation,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: go to politics.fm and upgrade your subscription.