Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 244 ~ Before They Hit The Landfill

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Ep. 244 ~ Before They Hit The Landfill · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

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H If you remember, like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, they actually devoted
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their show what was it called the Lines of Fletcher Lies of Fletcher Party What
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Joe, Yeah, what an embarrassment. I mean, everything is going to
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hal down here inducted. No God, God. Oh yeah. And just
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like Shepherd of Fire says, it's me, it's me, it's the Triple
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B, Big Bad Bob here with you for episode number two hundred and forty
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four, two forty four. That's right, this is a little gumming podcast
1:41
and I am Rob Clark a ka the Triple B, Big Bad Bob.
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I got a banger. I'm a show for for you today. Uh.
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It's basically like a little Pope read type show and uh, just a little
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bit of every thing that we've been talking about here in the past. Over
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weeks, a lot of new documents have stumbled across to share with you and
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some new insights into some things. So stay tuned for all that. But
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before we get into the show, let's hear a word from our wee delicious
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clean you out, clean the pipes. Nothing like having clean pipes, folks.
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Ain't nothing wrong with that. And before we get into things here,
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I just want to formally make the announcement here on the Loan Gumming podcast that's
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your boy be Bad Bob and it's faithful sidekick, listener of the show and
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brilliant mind of his own, Joe Borelli, will be presenting together at Lancer
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this year. Okay, we're gonna be doing it virtually, which means we're
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not going to be there unfortunately. But we have been working for months and
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months and months and months on putting together a hell of a show. It's
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going to be a probably four hour extravaganza on the Lone gum And podcast channel
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here audibly and also on YouTube with an accompanying video, so you can see
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everything that we're talking about. You can see our beautiful faces, and it's
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going to be amazing. But we also agreed to do Lancer this year and
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we are going to make a composite presentation. It's only going to be an
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hour long, but Lancer will have it exclusively before it is released on the
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run GUMM and podcast channels. So if you want to see some great new
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and exciting research instead of the same old, fluffy, duffy crap that's been
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regurgitated over the years, all right, make sure you either get your ass
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to Dallas and attend the Lancer conference in person. And for everybody that doesn't
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know, Doug Campbell is going to be in Dallas this year, so make
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sure you look for the long haired guy wearing the black leather jackets and Chuck
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Taylor's. And if you can't attend Dallas, if you make sure you at
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least headword of the website and sign up for the virtual conference. That means
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you can stream all the speakers, You can stream our presentation and you'll get
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an early look at this groundbreaking new search into the Kennedy assassination that we've been
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working on here for the past many many months, well probably a year.
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Now you will see exactly where and how far just a little bit of collaborative,
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out of the box, new thinking research can get you. Just when
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you think that everything in the Kennedy assassination has been beaten like a dead horse
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and regurgitated like the girl from the Exocystem, we are proud to bring you
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some new information. So make sure you are either attending or checking it out.
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Okay, there's my hard sell. So today on the show, we're
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gonna be talking about, like I said, all kinds of stuff. I'm
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gonna be jumping, jumping around like a like a little jumping spider trying to
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make his way across the pond on little pads. Little pads, that's almost
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a word I can't say. It must be something to do with the elves,
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much like liberty, liberty lobby, liberty lobby. Yes, there I
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said it, but I digress. So let's get right into it. First.
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Document a document. Oh and just real quick, for all you folks
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listening out there, here is just a window, a small window into the
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background of how I put this show together. A lot of I hear from
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a lot of people, whether it be through YouTube comments, whether it be
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through emails or direct messages, or on Twitter, whatever the case may be,
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it appears, you know, I have talked about something weeks ago,
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and then somebody, well, let's finally listen to the show and say,
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excuse me and say, hey, Rob, I heard on the show X,
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Y and Z, Hey could you please point me towards that document.
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Well, I am sorry to say that I don't really work like that.
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Here's how it goes. I do research. I combed through documents, I
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read books. Okay, I don't just come in here Willie and Nelly pulling
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some shit off Wikipedia. You know what I'm saying. I don't just watch
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a YouTube video and then come in here and talk about it. Although I
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have done a couple of shows like that. But most of the time what
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you hear on this show comes from things that I've ran across in the course
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of my research into the Kennedy assassination. Now, this is not nineteen sixty
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six, folks, where I have you know, twenty file cabinets full of
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Xerox's documents that I have Haynes takenly put into alphabetical order into folders based upon
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certain criterias. No, no, no, that's not how your boy works.
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So as I'm calming through things and I find something that jumps off the
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page and me and I might want to talk about on the show, I
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will print that page off, and I will call certain documents into piles based
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on, you know, one central theme, if you will. Sometimes,
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like today, I've come across some things, whether it's just not enough meat
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on the bone to do a show about, or it's something that I've already
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done a show about, and I find something new that I can add to
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that to that show that I did before, with other information pertaining to something
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else that we've already talked about here. So I print off the document,
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I get them together, and like you were here today, we're gonna go
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through a lot of documents. And when I'm done going through these documents,
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they go right here, right here, into this metal trash can. Yeah
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I should recycle, but you know, I don't sue me. But I
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read the documents and they go into trash can. I don't have twenty million
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windows opened up on my computer. I don't have twenty thousand files saved on
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my computer. All that just jumps everything up, and it's something that you
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really don't need, something you'll never have to go back through. So I
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don't even bother. So I print off stuff I talked about it here and
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it goes and file thirteen. So when you ask me point you towards a
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document that I read here, I can't do it. I can't. I
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apologize, but I'm sorry. I just can't do it because I don't know.
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Half the time, I don't know where I got it from. You
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know, there's so many research archives out there, whether it be NARA,
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the Wiseberg Archives, you know, John Armstrong's, the Baylor you know,
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the Dallas Municipal files, the key persons in decks. I mean, there's
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so many resources out there to research and look for documents and comb through that
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it's just hard to remember where you got something. So I apologize in advance,
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but that's just how I roll. And you know I'm not here to
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do everybody else's work for them. Okay. You know, if you're interested
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in this assassination, I'm giving you something that I found, and you are
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more than capable of using what I gave you and building upon it or trying
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to search for the same thing. These aren't hidden somewhere in some dusty corner
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of the dark web, folks. You know, they are publicly available documents.
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You just have to do a little digging, whether that be through Mary
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Farrell, the ed Forum, things have posted, various other forms where stuff's
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posted. You know, there's so many resources out there to find documents and
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come across them. And you know when people ask for riff numbers about this
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and riff numbers about that. I don't give two ships about a riff number
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because I'll never be at Nara and I'll never be looking it up. And
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that's not how I search for documents on Mary Farrell. So just just a
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little window when you when you when you're asking me for things, I am
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not gonna have them, So don't bother asking, because by the time you
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hear this show, they'll already be inside of a huge metal dumpster and then
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in the back of a big trash truck and then buried in the landfill.
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So and you know, as I read these documents, I try to tell
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you, you know, okay, the most pertinent stuff. This is an
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FBI document, folks, from eleven twenty three sixty three, okay. And
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it's done by Bardwell Odom, who was an FBI agent, and it's a
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report from him, and it says that approximately two pm, November twenty second,
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nineteen sixty three, I was informed by an unidentified policeman of the Dallas
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Police Department that a suspect had been seen entering the back door of the Texas
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Theater. Now, while this itself is not a crazy statement, he does
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have the timing off a little bit here, which makes you wonder what is
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going on here. I mean, he does say approximately two pm, so
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okay, because I believe Oswald was arrested, you know it about quarter to
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two five, one forty five. And he says, I immediately proceeded to
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the Texas Theater at two thirty one West Jefferson and entered the front door and
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stood in the lobby to see that no one left the theater since there were
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no officers on guard there. A minute or two after arriving in the lobby,
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a Dallas County Deputy sheriff ran by me from inside the theater stating,
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quote, they have him. And within a minute thereafter I observed a young
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man with his hands cuffed behind him in the midst of a group of Dallas
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police officers being hustled out the front door of the theater. As he passed
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through the lobby, he shouted holice, brutality. This man was white,
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about twenty two five eight one hundred and sixty pounds, brown hair, and
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was wearing a white shirt, dark trousers, and a reddish brown jacket with
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the zipper open all the way in the front. From photographs observed later in
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the day on November twenty second, I identify this individual as Lee Harvey Oswall.
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Okay, now again on his face, this is not an innocuous document
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other than the fact that the time is off. Okay, For one,
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he didn't state where he was before when he was informed by an unidentified policeman
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that his suspect hadn't seen entering the back door. He then says, I
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proceeded to the Texas Theater. So where was he before? Was he the
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tip of murder scene? Was he at the Texas schoolbook Depository? I mean,
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where was he? How long? You know? In approximately two pm?
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He found this out, then he had to get there. Then he
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had to see Oswald being taken out the front and all that jazz and then
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he says that the man was wearing a reddish brown jacket with the zipper opened
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all the way down the front. Well, Oswald's shirt wasn't wasn't a jacket
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for one, and it didn't have a zipper. It had buttons. So
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you know, you would think a good trained FBI agent would have a would
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do a little bit better putting together a coherent of report. So boo on
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you Bardwell odom, I just don't doubt it's interesting. See hear that.
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That's the sound of that document going in file thirteen. Folks, don't ask
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me where I got it. No clue, not a clue. Next up,
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we have this fascinating document. It's the CIA internal Memo Thomas Kara Karam
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Messing means yeah, say that twenty times fast. This document was approved for
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release in nineteen ninety two via the CIA Historical Review Program. And this document,
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this internal Memo and CIA is from November twenty fifth, nineteen sixty three,
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subject Lee Harve A. Oswald two redacted. It makes little difference now,
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but redacted had at one time an operational interest in Oswald. As soon
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as I heard Oswald's name, I recalled that as chief of the sixth Branch.
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I had discussed sometime in summer of nineteen sixty with the then Chief and
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Deputy Chief of the sixth Research Section the laying on of interviews through redacted or
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other suitable channels. At the moment, I don't recall this was discussed while
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Oswald and his family were en route to our country, or I for it
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was after their arrival. So I believe he is miss remembering here. But
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sometime in summer in nineteen sixty two instead of sixty sounds a little more plausible.
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So we're talking about Oswald returning to the United States two. I remember
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that Oswald's unusual behavior in the USSR had struck me from the moment I had
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read the first state dispatch on him, and I told my subordinates something amounting
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to, don't push too hard to get the information we need, because this
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individual looks odd. We were particularly interested in the operational interests Oswald might provide
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on the immense factory in which he had been employed, on certain sections of
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the city itself, and of course we felt the usual something intelligence that might
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help develop target personality dossiers. I was phasing into my redacted assignment redacted at
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the time. Thus, I would have left our country shortly after Oswald's arrival.
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I do not know one action developed thereafter concerning Oswald addendum as an afterthought.
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I recall also at the time, I was becoming increasingly interested in watching
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develop a pattern that we had discovered in the course of our bio and research
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work in six the number of Soviet women marrying foreigners being permitted to leave the
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USSR, then eventually divorcing their spouses and settling down abroad without returning home.
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The redacted case was among the first at ease, and we eventually turned up
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something like two dozen similar cases. We established links between some of these women
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and the KGB. Redacted became interested in the developing trend we had come across.
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It was partly out of curiosity to learn if Oswald's wife would actually accompany
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him to our country, partly out of interest in Oswald's own experience in the
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USSR that we showed operational intelligence interest in the Harvey story. TBC. That's
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Thomas Kara Kara Kara Messi. Yeah, yeah, that last name. So
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that's a pretty that's a pretty important document. There says a lot of things
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that we've kind of established over the years that they probably would have done back
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then, such as debrief Oswald when he got back concerning certain information. Since
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he'd been behind the Iron Curtain for three years, he would think that the
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State Department of the CI would want to know what he saw. But then
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also they were hyper aware of these KGB trained honey pot spies who would marry
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foreigners and then return to their homelands with them and stay with them for a
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little while. When they were done, they would divorce, and uh,
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instead of going back home, the women would settle in a different foreign country.
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UM. So interesting stuff there, for sure, sure. And I
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always hear from people, you know, hey, Rob, Rob, you
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know can you can you points courts something that the kind of shows that Oswald
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was up to something funky, you know, well, asides from the glaringly
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obvious stuffing out there, you know, like handing out procaster literature and then
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one day and then offering to help the anticast of Cubans another. Um,
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you know, if you just do a little digging, folks, she will
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see things like what I'm about to tell you here and what I'm about to
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tell you here is very very into resting and it's very telling. So on
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his way back from Russia, him and Marina had a nice nine day boat
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ride back from Amsterdam to the United States. And while on this boat,
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Oswald had a lot of time to pretty much do anything he wanted. Marina
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said, he spent a lot of time in the Chip's library, reading and
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writing. How many people believed that Oswald's quote historic diary or Oswald's debriefing document,
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if you will, was written not contemporaneously with his stay in Russia,
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but actually written in one foul swoop while on the ship on the way back,
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which is a whole another story. But you know, osw was a
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pretty smart guy. He figured so when he got back to America that there
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was going to be either a lot of trouble considering his actions or a lot
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of fanfare in football and bustle and reporters that wanted to ask him questions.
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So, while on the boat, our buddy mister Lee Harvey, Oswald decided
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to write down some questions that he was probably going to get asked by the
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by the oppress upon his return, along with the answers to these questions.
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Okay, so they asked him or he asked himself, whatever you want to
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say? So first number one, why did you go to the USSR?
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Answer? I went as a citizen of the United States, as a tourist
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residing in a foreign country, which I have a perfect right to do.
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I went there to see the land, the people, and how the system
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works. Question what about those letters? Answer? I made no letters deriding
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the US in any way in correspondence with the US embassy. I made no
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anti American statements or leveled. Any criticism I might have had was of policies
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and not our government. Question did you make statements against the US there?
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Answer? No? What about that type recording? I made a recording for
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radio, the Moscow Tourist Radio Travelog, in which I spoke about sight seeing
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and what I had seen in Moscow tourist circles. I expressed delight in all
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the interesting places I mentioned in this respect, the University, the Museum of
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Art, Red Square, the Kremlin. I remember. I closed this two
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minute recording by saying, I hoped our peoples would live in peace and fr
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whatever the hell that means. Three did you break laws by residing or taking
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work in the USSR? Under US law, a person may lose the protection
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of the US by voting or serving in the armed FIRS forces of a foreign
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state, or taking an oath of allegiance to that state. And I did
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none of these actions. Number four. Isn't all work in the USSR considered
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state work? Answer? No, Technically only plants working directly for the state,
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usually defense. All other plants are owned by the workers who who work
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in them. Five What about statements you make to UPI agent Miss Moseby in
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nineteen fifty nine. Answer. I was approached just after I had formally notified
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the US Embassy in Moscow of my future reverend residence in the USSR by the
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newspaper agencies in Moscow, including UPI, API and Time, who were notified
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by the embassy. I did not call them. I answered questions and gave
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statements to Miss Mosby of UPI. I requested her to let me okay.
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She sent her story before she released it, which is the polite and usual
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thing to do, her version of what I said just after she sent it.
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I saw her version of what I said just after she sent it.
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I immediately called her to complain about this, at which time she apologized,
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but said her editor and not her had added several things. She said London
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was very excited about the story that there is how I deduced that she had
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already sent it, so there wasn't much else I could do about it.
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I didn't realize that the story was even more blown out of shape once I
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got to the USA. I'm afraid the printed story was fabricated and sensationalized.
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Or six, Why did you remain in the US the USSR for so long
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if you only wanted a look? I resided in the USSR until February,
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when I wrote the embassy stating that I would like to go back. My
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passport was at the embassy for safekeeping. They invited me to Moscow for this
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purpose. However, it took me almost a half a year to get a
29:56
permit to leave the city of Minsk Moscow. In this connection, I had
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to use a letter from the head consular to the Russian authorities in Minsk.
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The Russians are very bureaucratic and slow about letting foreigners travel about the country,
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hence the visa. When I did get to Moscow, the embassy immediately gave
30:18
me back my passport and advised me as to how to get an exit visa
30:23
from the Russians for myself and my family. This long and argious process took
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months from July sixty two until blankety blank sixty two. Therefore, you see,
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almost one year was spent in trying to leave the country. That's why
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I was there so long, not out of desire. Are you a communist
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and have you ever been a communist? Answer? No, of course not.
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I have never even known a communist outside of the ones in the USSR.
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But you can't help that number eight. What are the outstanding differences between
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the USSA and the uss are freedom of speech, travel, outspoken opposition to
31:07
unpopular policies, freedom to believe in God, and newspapers. Thank you,
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sir, you are a real patriot. This is the kind of shit that
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is writing on the boat and of the flock of orders. They're gonna be
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waiting for him, you know, to to glean his story. That documents
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not the end of the story, because there's also another version of the exact
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same scenario that Oswald wrote. You see what I just read you was a
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very pro American response that Oswald patriotically would have given had he been seen as
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just a simple tourist. Instead of a defector who surrendered his passport and his
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and denounced his country and chose to live over there and work over there until
32:23
he decided he wanted to come back. This version is the pro Russian,
32:34
pro communist, pro Marxist, whatever you want to call it, version of
32:42
his imaginary press conference. The questions again, why did you go to the
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USSR? I went as a mark of disgust or I'm sorry, I went
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as a mark of disc gus and protest against American political policies in foreign countries,
33:05
my personal sign of discontent and horror at the misguided line of reasoning of
33:09
the US government. And people question, what about those letters? I made
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several letters in which I expressed my above feeling to the American embassy when in
33:21
October fifty nine I went there to legally liquidate my American citizenship and was refused
33:28
this legal right. Question two, do you make statements against the US there?
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Did you make statements against the US while there? Yes? His first
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answer, and the other document was no. Now it's yes, Okay.
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What about the tape recording? And he says, I made a recording for
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Radio Moscow which was broadcast the following Sunday, in which I spoke about the
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beautiful capital of the socialist work and all of its progress. Three did you
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break laws by residing or taking work in the USSR? He says I did,
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and then I took an oath of allegiance to the USSR. Now the
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first document is that he says he didn't do that. That's when he says
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I took an oath to the allegiance of the USSR. Number four, isn't
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all work in the USSR considered state work? Yes, of course, and
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in that respect I also broke US law and accepting work under a foreign state.
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So his first answer was no, of course not. There's a difference.
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What about statements she made to the UPI against missus Mosbying, He says,
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I was approached by Miss Mosby and other reporters just after I had formerly
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requested the American Embassy took legally liquidate my US citizenship for a story. They
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were notified by the US Embassy, not by me. I answered questions and
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made statements to Miss Mosby in regard to my reasons for coming to the USSR.
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Her story was warped by her later but embarrassed essence. It is possible
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to say if she had the truth printed? Number six, Why did you
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remain in the USSR for so long? If you only wanted to look answer?
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I resided in the USSR for two and a half years. I did
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so because I was living quite comfortably. I had plenty of money, an
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apartment rent free, lots of girls, etc. Why should I leave all
35:40
that? But damn? He uh hopetively married Marina right after he got there.
35:47
Right, So I guess he was plowing through some other women while he
35:52
was there. Seven. Are you a communist? Yes? Basically. Although
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I hate the USSR and socialist system, I still think Marxism can work under
36:07
different circumstances. Have you ever known a communist not in the USA? He
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says? Eight. What are the outstanding or what are the outstanding difference between
36:27
the USSR and the USA? Answer? None, Except in the US the
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living standard is a little higher, freedoms are about the same, medical aid,
36:38
and the educational system in the USSR is better than the USA. Okay,
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So there you have the folks, two very starkly drastically different documents written
37:00
by Oswald on his way back. I guess he was pairing himself for both
37:10
sides of questionings concerning about how they may have wanted him to answer. You
37:22
see, nobody does that. Nobody sits down and thinks about how they're going
37:25
to answer questions, either pro American or pro Russian. I mean, you
37:31
would think that returning to the United States, it's going to be a pro
37:37
American slant, you know, because you're coming back to the United States.
37:42
You want to be welcome back with open arms, so you know, you
37:45
don't want to talk much of shit about the United States and how much better
37:49
Russia is than the United States. Now, if he was directed by someone
37:55
else to be that evil Russian defector who still claims to be a Communist,
38:09
Marxist, whatever, and I think that they're better than the United States,
38:16
then one would maybe write things out to see how they're going to answer certain
38:22
questions that maybe ask to them. It's just very odd behavior for someone who
38:30
has no intelligence background. And don't forget about his little Fordian slip in New
38:43
Orleans when he was being interviewed when he says that he was under the protection
38:46
of the US government while living in Russia, and he said and then he
38:52
corrected himself very quickly. But you know, sometimes things slip out through the
38:58
cracks, and you know, the truth post its head out every once in
39:01
a while. So very interesting set of documents there, very eye opening for
39:08
those who are paying attention. Folks, pay attention. And what I just
39:14
read you was in the twenty six volumes, so so if you want to
39:16
find it, good luck hit over there. Next up we have a Secret
39:22
Service interview of Arlene Roberts. Handwritten statement by Arlene Roberts. Okay, and
39:34
this was done let's see here one December fifth in front of a US Secret
39:47
Service agent special Agent William Carter and Arthur Blake. Okay, it was obviously
39:57
written out by one of them. It looks like William Carter wrote it early.
40:05
Roberts looks to have signed it. Her signature looks like a second grade
40:10
verse of special probably meant matched her mentality. But a few things to glean
40:21
from this. She goes over the usual. I live at ten twenty six
40:24
back Lee, Dallas, Texas, and I serve as a housekeeper for a
40:29
rooming house owned by mister and missus A. C. Johnson. And on
40:34
Friday November twenty second, at approximately one pm, I was sitting in the
40:37
living room watching television about the president's assassination. When a man I know at
40:44
Oh Lee but who has since been identified as Lee Harvey Oswald, came into
40:49
the front door and went to his room. Oswald did not have a jacket
40:53
when he came in the house, and I don't recall what type of clothing
40:57
he was wearing. Oswald went to his room and was only there for a
41:01
few minutes before coming back out. I noticed he had a jacket he was
41:06
putting on. I recalled the jacket was a dark color. Dark color.
41:12
To all this horse shit about them finding that gray or white jacket stuffed under
41:16
a car after fleeing the tip of murder scene, nonsense, That's not Oswald's
41:22
jacket, folks. Yeah, I recalled the jacket was a dark color,
41:30
and it was the tape that zips up the front. He was zipping the
41:36
jacket up as he left. I'm assuming part of this guy cut off,
41:46
but it says on the curb blah blah blah, and on the same side
41:52
of the street as our house. I just glanced out the window that once.
41:55
I don't know how long Lee Oswald stood at that curb, nor did
42:00
I see which direction he went when he left there about thirty minutes later.
42:07
Okay, So we have Oswald coming into the house approximately one o'clock and leaving
42:12
a couple minutes later, and then standing out front for a couple of minutes.
42:16
Okay, so about thirty minutes later, which would be about it'll be
42:23
nice and say, you know. Onety one five, three Dallas cops came
42:30
to the house looking for Lee Harvey Oswald. We didn't know who Lee Harvey
42:36
Oswald was until some time later his picture was flashed on television. I then
42:44
left the Dallas policeman in the room occupied by Lee Oswald. While the Dallas
42:49
police were searching the room, two FBI agents show up at the door.
42:55
The police and the FBI agents took everything in the room that belonged to Lee
43:00
Oswald. It also took our pillowcase and two towels and wash claws. Agents
43:14
William Carter and Arthur Blake of the US Secret Service. I read this statement
43:19
over and I find it to be true to the best of my knowledge.
43:22
Earlene Roberts, So, three Dallas police show up at about one forty.
43:34
Oswald's not even arrested in the Texas theater yet, what in the hell are
43:39
these guys doing it as roomy house when they have no idea who he is?
43:45
Allegedly? And then while the Dallas police are there grabbing all this stuff
43:52
out of his room, two FBI a can show up. How do they
43:54
know? How do they know where Oswald lives? This wasn't established until much
44:02
later, folks. And when I say much later, I mean by like
44:06
three or four o'clock. So again, how were the police and FBI at
44:15
Oswald's roomy house so early? I mean, I could understand if there was,
44:22
you know, a more of a smaller time gap here, but we're
44:27
talking about, you know, a two hour discrepancy, and I don't think
44:34
Earling Roberts would have screwed up her timing of things by that much. So
44:46
interesting, How did they know? How did they know? That? Again?
44:52
It was back to prebous episode we just did. How did they know?
44:58
How did they know? I don't know, but it definitely it definitely
45:07
begs the question, all right? Next up, switching gears. Here an
45:15
FBI document from December the fourth, nineteen sixty three, concerning Edwin Walker retired
45:25
Major General Information concerning by letter dated twelve, two sixty three, the Dallas
45:32
office submitted a rifle bullet obtained from Lieutenant Karl Day of the Dallas Police Department.
45:39
This bullet was recovered from the home of Edwin A. Walker, retired
45:43
Major General, US Army, on April tenth, nineteen sixty three, by
45:47
the Dallas Police Department following the report of a bullet having been fired into Walker's
45:52
home through a window investigation in connection with the assassination of President Kennedy discloses the
46:00
the rifle used in the assassination what ship to Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas,
46:05
Texas on March twenty and sixty three, and that Oswald continued to reside in
46:09
Dallas until four twenty nine, sixty three. It is requested that the lab
46:16
compare the bullet from Walker's home with the test bullets obtained from Oswald's rifle.
46:22
It was determined that the Walker bullet has the same physical characteristics as the assassination
46:28
bullet and fragments. It is a six and a half millimeter caliber bullet which
46:32
has been fired from a four land and groove right twist barrel. Man liquor
46:37
Carcano. Rifles of the type used in the assassination are among those weapons which
46:43
produced rifling characteristics such as are on the Walker bullet. It is noted that
46:49
this bullet is extremely distorted and mutilated, also that it reportedly was fired on
46:52
April ten sixty three, some seven months ago. No test bullets known to
46:58
have been fired from the subject gun near April tenth sixty three are available.
47:02
The only known test bullets from the assassination weapon or those recently fired in the
47:07
FBI lab for comparison with the bullet and fragments involved in the assassination. Accordingly,
47:14
because of the extreme mutilation and distortion of the bullet, and because the
47:19
individual characteristics produced by the gun barrel may have changed during the intervening seven month
47:22
period, it could not be determined whether or not the Walker bullet was actually
47:28
fired from Oswald's rifle. The results of the lab examination is set out above
47:35
were arrived at were arrived at independently by three of our top firearms whose aminers
47:39
in the lab. If test bullets known to have been fired near the date
47:44
of April sixty three are subsequently located, it may be possible to further resolve
47:49
this question. Efforts are being made to see if similar, earlier known bullets
47:52
can be located. So there you go, folks. It could not be
48:00
determined whether or not that Walker bullet was actually fired from Oswald's rifle. And
48:06
that is from December of sixty three, so go yourself now, from July
48:19
seventy seven from a memo dated a memo dated seven twenty six seventy seven titled
48:28
Walker Bullet. I know this is during the HSCA investigation. It briefly addressed
48:32
questions as to the recovered bullets inconsistency with Oswald's alleged weapon. It went on
48:38
to site Warren commissioned testimony by the Fords to the effect that Marina had been
48:45
coached by her attorney. William Mackenzie testified that Oswald had only used one gun
48:51
in the attempt on Walker. I believe it should be a simple matter to
48:55
determine whether the recovered bullet matches Oswald's rifle, and expect those tests to have
49:00
been done by now. The following may be of use to you in the
49:05
way of pursuing previously undeveloped leads. Hopefully this will be already old business to
49:10
you also, so he says, while visiting Dallas last January, I contacted
49:17
Ira Van Cleve at the Crimes Against Person's Division of the Dallas Police Department.
49:24
Officer van Cleve now operates a polygraph and security consulting firms separate from his official
49:30
duties. At the time of the attempt on Major Walker's life, Van Cleve
49:37
was assigned to the investigation and quoted in the press to the effect that the
49:42
recovered bullet had been fired from a thirty odds six. I asked him about
49:49
this, and he stated the bullet had been too mangled for identification and he
49:53
had been mistaken. Officer Van Cleave did go on that there was a reliable
50:04
witness to the Walker shooting quote, a young neighbor boy saw two men in
50:08
a car across an alleyway not far he had a good view. This was
50:15
apparently a reference to Walter Coleman, who Major Walker alleged in his Warrant Commission
50:20
testimony had been ordered by law enforcement not to talk. Possibly relevant to this
50:27
matter, but certainly one of those outstanding questions not satisfactorily dealt with by the
50:30
Warrant Commission is the rifle Robert Adrian Taylor reported he received in the trade from
50:38
a man resembling Oswald. Taylor described the rifle as a Springfield Bolt Action thirty
50:44
odd six bearing their markings US Rock Island Arsenal model nineteen oh three and bearing
50:50
serial number six nine one. And this is your commission Exhibit two nine and
50:54
seventy seven. Was there of any instance in which I can help you out
50:58
regarding the above, I'd be honored to help. You can reach me by
51:01
mail or by telephone. It's my pleasure to work with you during my employment
51:06
there, Cliff. My best wishes for much success in the investigation. Sincerely,
51:10
Kevin Walsh. So this is of course from Kevin Walsh too, HSCA
51:16
investigator Cliff Fenton. Now regardings bulleted a little bit more, this is a
51:24
letter from Edwin Walker to the US Attorney General at the Department of Justice on
51:30
February twelfth, nineteen seventy nine. The Dallas Police Department will verify that the
51:36
bullet fired a Walker at nine pm one April tenth, sixty three, passed
51:40
through the center wood cross strip of the outer screen, through the wood frames
51:45
of both planes of the upper of the upper and lower window to include the
51:50
copper weather strip between, and through an inside masonry wall reinforced with solid ten
51:58
and metal Lighting vintage nineteen twenty six to fall spent below the eggit hole in
52:04
the mortar bloon from the wall. The bullet used and pictured on the TV
52:08
by the US Senate ge Robert Blakey Committee on Assassinations is a ridiculous substitute for
52:16
a bullet completely mutilated by such obstruction, bearing no resemblance to any unfired bullet
52:23
in shape or form. I saw the hunk of lead picked up by a
52:28
policeman in my house, and I took it from him, and I looked
52:31
at it carefully. There is no mistake there has been a substitution at some
52:37
point for the bullet fired by Oswald and taken out of my house. It
52:42
is requested that you withdraw the substituted bullet from all records and files pretending to
52:46
the assassination of John F. Kennedy and the attempted assassination of General Walker,
52:52
and that you assure the security of the withdrawn bullet for future comparisons. I
52:57
desire to be informed of your actions. Sincerely, Edwin A. Walker.
53:07
This is a memo to the Director of the FBI in June twenty one,
53:10
nineteen seventy nine, from Robert Cooch, who was special counsel for the Attorney
53:15
General. That means that's the lawyer. He says, I have received that
53:21
the attached letter from the legal counsel for former General Walker concerning allegations that the
53:25
bullet fragments examined by the Select Committee, which were reportedly fragments of the bullet
53:30
fire to Walker, could not in fact be such fragments. I would appreciate
53:35
any information which could be provided that would enable me to provide a response to
53:39
General Walker's lawyer. Thank you, Robert Cooch, Special Counsel to the Attorney
53:49
General. So you see, folk, there was apparently some fookery going on.
54:00
Now. General Walker always believed that Oswald had been the one that shot
54:05
at it. And it's very easy to see the HSCA bullet it was attributed
54:15
as to being fired from Oswald's gun was in fact not the same bullet retrieved
54:22
from his house. And this is according to General Walker himself. So if
54:25
he wanted to delay everything at defeat of Oswald, all he had to do
54:29
was go along with the official government story, the official government narrative, and
54:32
the official government evidence. But even though he believed that Oswald was the one
54:37
that shot at him. He is pulling them out on their bullet evidence,
54:42
saying this is not the same bullet. This needs to be withdrawn from evidence.
54:47
Rantings of a crazy man or what what's going on here? Continues the
54:58
framing of Lee Harvey os Laws all right, shifting years again. Next up,
55:04
This is a good one from the County of Los Angeles Sheriff's Department,
55:09
November twenty six, nineteen sixty three, from DJ Catty, a lieutenant at
55:15
the Norwalk Station Burglary Detective Division, subject Lee Oswald, Dallas, Texas received
55:25
confident sunfidential information from Sergeant J. L. Cooner, Norwalk Detectives, who
55:31
states as follows. An informant, Tom Genko's, a bartender at the Hunt
55:38
Room, states that on Saturday evening, November twenty third, nineteen sixty three,
55:45
that a patron in the Hunt Room, a bar located at one four
55:49
four three three East Telegraph Road in Whittier, California, stated that mister Ken
55:54
Thornley was in the above indicated bar Friday night on November twenty second. Mister
56:00
Thornley stated that his son was well acquainted with Oswald. This acquaintance as a
56:07
result from mister Thornley's son and Oswald, having both served in the Marine Corps
56:10
at the same time in California, they have become friends and since they're discharge,
56:16
they have corresponded regularly. Mister Thornley continued to relate that his son had
56:22
numerous letters from Oswald, some of which are of a very recent dating.
56:30
No information obtainable or volunteered as what period the recent dates may be. In
56:36
conclusion, mister Thornley stated that it is his understanding from his son that Oswald
56:43
is in the process of writing a book. Sergeant Cooner states that mister Thornley
56:49
lives in the immediate area and that a Kin Thornley is listed in the Northeast
56:54
section phone book as residing at one five or six away East Starbuck, Whittier
57:01
phone number o W seven five five seven one. There's a business card attached
57:08
to the original report listing mister Ken Thornley as being connected with the Ideal Engraving
57:15
Company locating at eight eight to eight Lakewood Boulevard in Downey, California. The
57:20
bartender, mister Ginkos, did not pursue the matter further in an attempt to
57:23
learn the name of the son of Ken Thornley, Well, Detective Caddy.
57:31
His name was Carrie with the K kind of like Ken. Now this is
57:42
some crazy information, folks. There's a lot of stuff in here. Okay.
57:47
So you have Carrie Thornley's dad getting drunk in a bar on November twenty,
57:52
nineteen sixty three and spouting his mouth off that his son and Oswald are
57:58
very good friends, that they write letters back and forth frequently and recently,
58:05
and that Oswald is in the process of writing a book. Where is that
58:10
in the evidence, folks? Where is that in the evidence? Huh?
58:19
Interesting, very very interesting. I don't know where I got that one either,
58:30
but I got it all right. Next up, this is a County
58:37
of Dallas Sheriff's Departments supplementary investigation report from February seventeenth, nineteen sixty four,
58:45
concerning property taken from a nineteen sixty old's eighty eight Oregon license two Q seven
58:53
eight eight seven. Now, the backstory I'm guessing on this vehicle was apparently
59:07
found in the parking lot behind the Grassy Knoll. And this vehicle held the
59:17
following three dollars and twelve cents in change, three one dollar bills, an
59:24
Atlas Office printing outfit made into rubber stamp as follows, help stamp out the
59:31
Kikes. The knee groid Semitics want to integrate their Negro cousins. Reactionary number
59:44
one sixteen of the above described signs stamp out the Kikes. Horror papers on
59:54
the above sixty olds. One letter addressed to Jane Murphy of our quirky New
1:00:00
Mexico. One box of Trojan rubbers, which I didn't know they had back
1:00:06
in the early sixties, but apparently apparently they did. One corvet ten transistor
1:00:14
radio, several notes and letters addressed to complainant. Assortment of newspapers, one
1:00:20
Salt Lake Tribune, one white shirt, one blue tie, one brown suits,
1:00:25
Century j C. Pennies, one pack of Salem's, one extra set
1:00:35
car keys for the above olds. One Mechanics Illustrated Magazine in September sixty three,
1:00:40
one Family Weekly Magazine, one Winchester Rifle Advertisement Magazine, one Rumble map,
1:00:52
Becker Mel and McCurley, Jack Ravelle, HH, Davis Junior, DA's
1:00:59
off us wild Stuff. There. I wonder whose car this was interesting?
1:01:13
Very interesting. For next up, we have a letter from Mary Farrell to
1:01:19
Anne and Betsy, whoever the hell they are. They in November the fourth,
1:01:22
nineteen seventy seven, a lot of small talk. Poppaty bpity poppity boo
1:01:30
okay. So. In September sixty three, Richard Kase Naguil was arrested in
1:01:39
al Pastor, Texas for firing a gun at a bank there. His papers
1:01:45
and documents were taken by the FBI, and then about sixty nine and seventy
1:01:49
or seventy one, Bud Finsterwald was representing the Guel in an attempt to recover
1:01:53
his possessions taken by the FBI. When Bud finally got them released, he's
1:02:00
box them and sent the originals on to Neigel. A couple of years ago,
1:02:04
a young man now an old man named Dick Russell was in Bud's office
1:02:08
going through the Nigel files. Dick called me and asked me if I had
1:02:13
ever seen a card bearing a picture in Oswald's signature numbered in four blankety blank.
1:02:21
I told Dick that that was a number on the Uniform Services Identification and
1:02:25
Privilege card there was issued to Oswald on September of the eleventh, nineteen fifty
1:02:30
nine. The picture only Oswald card in Nigel's possession in November or in September
1:02:37
sixty three. A Z rocks of it found in Bud's file was not any
1:02:43
picture we have ever seen before. Even though it's a rather poor z rocks,
1:02:47
we could tell that it was not any picture of Oswald that anybody had
1:02:52
ever seen before. I am not certain that it was a picture of Oswald
1:02:55
at all, But the important question is how didn't the Gel get a copy
1:03:00
of that card and how did he have it in his possession? Two months
1:03:05
prior to the assassination, dick Russell made his z rocks of Bud z Rocks,
1:03:10
and of course it is a terrible copy. Blood claims he has been
1:03:15
unable to find his z Rocks copy. Dick Russell later told me that the
1:03:20
card was not in with other documents sees by the FBI from the GEL,
1:03:24
but was in the pleadings file. Prior to getting this information from dick Russell,
1:03:30
I had put Richard case to Gel in the same category as Ronald Augustinovitch,
1:03:36
Don Morgan and others of the like. This was the first tangible link
1:03:40
between the Gel and Oswald that I had actually seen with my own two eyes.
1:03:45
If the card had actually been among the things the FBI seas in El
1:03:49
Pasto of September of sixty three. This is a bomb show. Then in
1:03:55
January seventy seven, when I received another release from the CIA with the name
1:04:00
deleted but the date in place of birth indicated they were Miguel's birth date and
1:04:04
place of birth, and realized they were with holding completely three other documents about
1:04:10
the same person, and two other documents being withheld are possibly about Neiguel.
1:04:15
This made Miguel gained importance in my mind. You might give the above to
1:04:21
someone who is at least mildly interested in Niguel. I am enclosing a zeros
1:04:27
of the picture I believe was on the Oswald's Uniform Services identification card, along
1:04:32
with the zeros of Gary Powers card from the book about to Trial. So
1:04:40
yeah, interesting, very very interesting. Yeah all right, what does it
1:04:53
mean? I don't know, but I had heard that before about and Oswald
1:05:00
identification card being found in with the girls stuff that was in his trunk of
1:05:08
funk when he shot up the bank. So very interesting, all right.
1:05:27
Next up we have a handwritten statement written out by Richard Randolph Carr himself in
1:05:36
the presence of Paul el Scott, special Agent of the FBI, on February
1:05:42
the third, sixty four, where it says, I, Richard Randolph Carr
1:05:47
make the following voluntary statement to Paul Scott, who has identified himself to me
1:05:53
as a special agent of the FBI. I understand the statement is being furnished
1:05:58
in connection with and actual investigation being conducted by the FBI. So it goes
1:06:04
on. You know, I was a steel worker, and you know,
1:06:08
the whole Richard Randolph car story is that he was he was trying to get
1:06:14
a job in Dallas, and then he had dropped his wife off at Parkland,
1:06:18
and he continued down into Daily Plaza and was climbing up a new scaffold
1:06:30
of construction building going on there in Daily Plaza, looking for a job.
1:06:34
And it just so happened that the assassination unfolded six floors below him, and
1:06:42
that he witnessed great many things allegedly from his advantage point. So he says,
1:06:53
as I reached a point that approximately the sixth floor of the building framework,
1:06:58
I looked towards the school book Depository building located at the corner of Houston
1:07:01
and Elm and at that time I observed a man looking out of a window
1:07:08
on the top floor of the school book Depository. This man, a heavy
1:07:13
set individual who was wearing a hat, a tan sport coat, and horn
1:07:18
rimmed glasses, was not in the end window next to Houston Street, but
1:07:25
was, I believe, in the second window over from Houston Street. I
1:07:30
continued on up the stairway. In a minute or so later, I heard
1:07:32
a noise which it took to be backfire of an automobile or a firecracker.
1:07:38
Where we heard that before, here was or there was a slight pause after
1:07:45
the first report, and then two reports in very quick succession wherever we heard
1:07:51
that before. From where I was standing on the framework of the new Courtenhouse
1:07:57
building, I looked for the Triple Underpass. It seemed to me that the
1:08:08
noises I heard had come from that direction. As I looked, I saw
1:08:13
several individuals falling to the ground. I do not recall that I looked towards
1:08:17
the school book Depository building. After hearing the three reports, I immediately were
1:08:24
seeded down the stairway of the building with the intention of going over to the
1:08:29
Triple Underpass to see what had happened. When I reached the ground, I
1:08:32
walked to Houston Street and down Houston Street to the Commerce Street intersection. I
1:08:39
did not walk over to the site where I had previously seen people falling due
1:08:44
to the large crowd which was already there. When I was on Houston Street
1:08:48
near the Commerce Street intersection, I saw a man who I believe was identical
1:08:54
with the man I had earlier seen in the building of the window the school
1:08:58
book Depository. This man, walking very fast, proceeded on Houston Street south
1:09:03
to Commerce Street, then east on Commerce Street the Record Street, which is
1:09:10
one block over from there, and got into a sixty one or sixty two
1:09:19
light gray Rambler station wagon which was parked just north of Commerce one Record Street.
1:09:27
The station wagon, which had Texas license plate and was driven by a
1:09:30
young Negro man, drove off in a northerly direction. I proceeded to my
1:09:38
car, which was parked near the New County Courthouse building, and drove by
1:09:45
the residence of my brother, and then to Pete Kates in All States Trailer
1:09:49
Park, Zangs Boulevard and Clarendon Street. Blah blah blah blah blah. I
1:09:57
wish to stay at this point that I did not see anyone in the schoolbook
1:10:00
building with a gun. I did not see the assassination of Kennedy, and
1:10:06
I did not at any time tell anyone that I had seen the assassination of
1:10:12
President Kennedy. So very interesting stuff. And it just goes on to something
1:10:28
about going to his sister's house and what he did later in the day and
1:10:30
blah blah blah blah blah. But of course of interest is the gray like
1:10:41
gray nash Rambow station wagon driven by a Negro. Where we heard that before,
1:10:46
folks. So there you have further confirmation, and that comes from Richard
1:10:57
Randolphar's own hand, all right. Last document of the day votes in May
1:11:04
eighteenth, nineteen sixty seven, to Jim Garrison from Penn Jones. Regarding the
1:11:13
investigation, he says, I was on a radio show in Dallas about four
1:11:18
months ago. A couple of days after the show, a man by the
1:11:23
name of Richard Carr contacted me by telephone and said he had just had to
1:11:27
talk to me. I went to mister Carr's home and spent about three hours
1:11:31
with him. On November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, he was on
1:11:35
a construction elevator of the new Dallas County Courthouse, seven floors above the ground,
1:11:42
from which location he had a good view of the assassination scene. He
1:11:46
reported to me that he saw two white men run from behind the wooden fence,
1:11:51
that location being the one which we claimed some of the shots from which
1:11:56
president which killed President Kennedy. Car stated that the two men ran in a
1:12:01
northeasterly direction behind the school book depository, and while they were out of sight,
1:12:08
they were joined by a colored man. He called him a negro.
1:12:12
The colored man got in the driver's seat of a gray nam Ration national ship,
1:12:17
a gray Rambler station wagon. One white man got in the rear seat
1:12:23
on the left hand side, and the car drive north on Houston, turning
1:12:27
to the right on Pacific. The other man, a dark complexed white male
1:12:30
about five eight, heavy set, wearing dark roomed glasses, a brown hat
1:12:34
and brown coat, walked south on Houston Street and turned to the left of
1:12:39
Main Street, where he disappeared from view. Car further stated that while the
1:12:44
shots were being fired, he saw one bullet hit the ground behind the President's
1:12:46
car. Mister Carr not only is a raffle buff having a beautiful raffle case
1:12:53
with several raffles on the wall of his home. He was at an enlisted
1:12:57
man in the fifth Range of Battalion during World War Two and he was wounded
1:13:00
in combat three times. His occupation at this time as a steel barker,
1:13:04
and he was on the courthouse side of that day of planning for a job.
1:13:09
He has a wife and three children, and as he left his home,
1:13:13
he begged me not to get him killed. I never have released his
1:13:16
statement nor anyone to accept to mister Garrison. Within two or three days after
1:13:23
the assassination, the FBHI visited him in his home. They were very brusque
1:13:28
and insulting in their manner, and they told mister Carr if he did not
1:13:31
see Oswald shootout to sixth floor window, then he'd better keep his goddamn mouse
1:13:36
shut. So there you have his, folks, if you didn't see it,
1:13:45
keep a goddamn mouse shut. That's right, he was shut shut,
1:13:50
y'all. Trap from dollars Texas. All right, folks, that's it for
1:13:56
this week. Episode of two forty four is in the bag. Follow along
1:14:00
on TikTok, on Twitter, on Instagram at the loon Gumming seven, and
1:14:08
on YouTube search for the loon Guming podcast channel. Make sure to like and
1:14:12
subscribe and share with all your friends, all your acquaintances and uh maybe even
1:14:23
some people get meat on the street just to turn them onto say hey,
1:14:27
you ever hear the loon Gumming podcast. Ben Jones approves, Thanks until next
1:14:38
time America three. It being the window that he was playing a chill that
1:15:10
everyone was stalk around. She's a man. Don't believe one that I tell
1:15:23
you? Get me hid the line to sell you the biggest champcain yet the
1:15:50
boy waiting all so wild, the trumper rock had become the couple. The
1:16:14
pain I do was go and made a simple song, don't be one,
1:16:25
tell you he be lies. Have to tell you the bigging being that you
1:16:48
champion the way wayside weight side situation, to know my rain from men of
1:17:10
him. We got him head and he felt da down and back head of
1:17:14
his car. One was on him head and the candy cried on on down
1:17:20
the bigby that you yeah, I'm aware always I get the flats and ros
1:18:14
up to the point m h