Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #448 Jason Flom with Chris Miller

Transcript

#448 Jason Flom with Chris Miller · Wrongful Conviction

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: On the night of April twenty eighth, two thousand and one,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: a young woman returned to her apartment in Cleveland Heights, Ohio.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: When two men approached. She got a brief look at
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: one of their faces before being forced inside at gunpoint.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: They covered her face and both men raped her. They
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: also stole her purse and cell phone before fleeing the scene.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: A rape kit was performed and the victim described the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: one assailant she had seen, as well as his clothing.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Two days later, investigators tracked down the cell phone to
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a man named Chris Smith, who had clothing that was
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: similar to what the victim described. Even though Chris claimed
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: that he bought the phone second hand, he was arrested
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and identified. But this is wrongful conviction. Wrongful conviction has
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: always given voice to innocent people in prison, and now
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: we're expanding that voice to you us at eight three, three,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: two oh seven, four six sixty six, and tell us
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: how these stories make you feel and what you've done
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: to help the cause, even if it's something as simple
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: as telling a friend or sharing on social media. We've
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: really appreciated hearing from our audience so much so that
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: we've included one of the messages at the end of
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: this episode, So stick around for that, and if you
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: have something to say, we definitely want to hear it,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and you might just hear yourself in a future episode.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Call us eight three three, two oh seven four six
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: sixty six. Welcome back to Ronful Conviction, where we have
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: yet another case out of Cuyahoga County on the east
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: side of Cleveland, Ohio, where it appears that there was
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: evidence that should have kept our guest, Chris Miller, from
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: ever having been even brought to trial, much less convicted
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: and sentenced to sixty years. So Chris, first, let me
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: just say how glad I am that you're here with
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: us today rather than back inside where you never should
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: have been in the first place. Thank you and joining
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: him as a partner at FG and G and a
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: proud member of his legal team.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Jack one Green, absolutely a proud member. Thanks for having
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: me here of course.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Now, Chris, let's talk about your life before prison. Where'd
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: you grow up, what was your family life like? Give
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: us the whole background.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: I grew up in the east side of Cleveland, Saint Claire.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: I was raised ball women, my great grandmother Auntie, my mom,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: and my girl cousin. My grandfather dad when I was
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: ten years old, so he was the only man at
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: the house. So eleven years old, I was the man
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: at the house, you know, dealing with with women and boyfriend.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: And I'm fighting grown me when I was eleven years old.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: I had to grew up kind of fast because my
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: grandfather when he dad, everything got tight. No, he was
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: the money. My grandfather was a mechanic, you know. So
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: eleven years old, I was in the streets. Then I
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: was in the streets some drugs.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Chris helped to keep the family afloat until about the
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: time of this crime. He was twenty four years old,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: had two kids of his own and one on the way,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and he and his girlfriend needed a phone for the
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: new place they were moving into. And it appears that
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a chance encounter one morning with a man named Dwayne
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Collins had devastating effects on Chris's life. Collins approached Chris
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: and a man named Desmond Fletcher on a street corner
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: with a phone to trade for drugs.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: It was a Sunday morning that with Fletcher. He gave
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: him the drugs. I just gave him the money. He
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: gave it. Due to drugs I didn't know all this
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: was coming with it.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: By it, he means the phone which belonged to a
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: white woman who will refer to as LB. She had
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: survived the rape the previous night in Cleveland Heights.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: April twenty eight, two thousand and one. LB. She's out.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: She's returning home at the end of the night. She's
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: got a ground floor apartment in a building with a
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: number of units. It's a little after eleven o'clock. She
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: comes in through this exterior door. There's like a half
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: flight of stairs that goes down from kind of a
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: parking area, and you know, her doors down the hall
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: of it. So she goes to close the door to
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: apartment and she hears some voices like up, I think
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: on the flight of the stairs, and she turns. She
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: calls out. Two guys appear at the top the landing,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: and of course she doesn't know who they are at
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: the time. One of them comes down, grabs her arm,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: holds a gun to her neck, and they force her
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: into the apartment at gunpoint. They put something over her
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: face during these events, so she only really saw one
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: guy briefly of the two. Then they sectually assault her,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: both of them before leaving. One of them tells her,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: you know, don't report the attack. They take her purse,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: they take her cell phone, they take other items, and
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: they leave. That night. LB does go to the hospital.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: There is an examination and a rape kit done, so
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: there are specimens obtained for the purpose later of testing
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: that is done. We end up learning there's a mixture.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: There are two contributors, and she.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Did get a brief look at one of the assailants.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: There are a couple different early reports that came to light.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: The first description from LB is quote first mail as
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: a black mail about five eleven, one hundred and fifty
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: to one hundred and seventy pounds, eighteen to twenty two
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: years old, no facial hair, wearing a white T shirt
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: possibly with a black circle on the chest, blue jeans
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: and a green coat.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Six one. When I got arrested, I was like one.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Night, so Chris is or now he's taller and he's
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: brought her right.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to mix up one hundred and
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: fifty and one hundred and ninety pounds man. But then
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: somehow the clothing took on a more important role, especially
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: the circular pattern on his shirt. And we'll get back
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: to that in a bit. As the investigators moved beyond
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: the victim and the crime.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Scene, Detective Mark shit Schmid, I'm gonna say that again.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Detective Mark Schmidt of the Cleveland Heights Police Department. He comes.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: He's now the lead detective on this case. And Schmidt
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: focuses on this cell phone. And there had been some
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: calls made from the phone overnight and then earlier in
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: the morning to like a number stored in the phone,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: to a number from LB's little date book that was
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: in her purse. And then round eight o'clock in the
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: morning or so, the phone starts getting used pretty steadily.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And this is when Chris has the phone.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: It's Sunday. I shouldn't even been on the corner anyway.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: They guy walk up. You got then I got a phone.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: I'm annoying. Hedn't found the phone down the street in
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: the field. So the dudes was after they did what
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: they Didaturday night, they rolled down through my neighborhood and
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: through the phone in the field. He was one in
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: the field to use the bathroom and heard the phone
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: ring it, so he picked it up and came up
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: on nine nine Saint Clear and sold it to me
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: for five dollars, So you know, I was using the phone.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: It was charged up, had the phone for probably a
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: day and a.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Half, And sometime during that day and a half, Detective
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Schmidt started visiting the people who had received calls from
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the phone, including Chris's girlfriend.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: When I pull off for my mother's apartment building, I
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: look at the riview she following me. I'm like, so
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: I pulled over. She said, the police came to my
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: house talking about you robbed somebody for a phone. She's like,
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: get rid of that phone. Now. They don't say nothing
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: about the rape. Then they just sayd I robbed somebody.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: When I got home, I just put it in sewer
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: right front the house when in the house.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: But by then, Detective Schmid had already figured out that
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Chris was the person who had this phone, which was
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: enough for him to obtain an arrest warrant on April thirtieth.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: So I went home. I'll get my son in a bath.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: I take a bath. I'll fall asleep a couple hours.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Then I hear somebody just dog in my mother doorbill.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I wake up on my sleep, I'm like, who is this?
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: I go down there. It's just like fifty cops. I'm like,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: and my aunts was at the door with them and
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: was letting them in that I was coming to open
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: the door to see who they was. So they come
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: in the house. He like he had a warrant, so
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: I signed war let him search. I ain't got an
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: ass so I let him search. I was draws, no shirt,
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: no socks on.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: How'd you get the clothes to wear to go to
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: the police station.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: They dug him out the dirty clothes and made me
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: put them on.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Who gave them to you?
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Schmidt?
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: So Mark Schmitt himself is the one who gives these
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: clothing items to Chris to wear. Remember, Mark Schmidt is
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: the person who had previously interviewed LB. We know about
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: that later on in the story, but at this time
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Schmidt has information. He finds clothes for Chris to wear
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: out of the house for the arrest.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: She said, I had a white T shirt with Circle
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: of Emotions. They went there and took a white jersey
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: with pinky purple letters Toronto Raper's jersey, Vince Carter jersey. Yeah,
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: made me put it on and said it that's that's
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: what I had on. Like, I ain't have on that, bro.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: They just found anything and just tried to put it
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: on the Fifth Day theory.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Since Chris didn't have a green jacket like LB had described,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: they chose as black one. I guess they figured that's
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: close enough. Now they've got Chris dressed up prime for identification,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and they dragged him from his house for what he
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: believes was the stolen cell phone at.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: The MARTIALISTMS take me out of the house and put
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: me in the car. I'm so half sleep, I don't
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: even know my mother and the man even in the house.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: My mother and Shark my daughter and walked to the
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: corner store. So by the time they come out of
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: the store, I'm in the beckseat of the police car.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: The cop come to the car like, hey, turn your
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: legs out. He said, your daughter wants you. She was
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: five years old. Said she comes, she gets betray my
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: legs and she said, dad, what's going on? Said? They said,
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: I robbed somebody, so I shouldn't be back. You know,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: they figure out when.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Me you're listening to Ron for Conviction. You can listen
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: week early and ed free by subscribing to Lava for
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Good plus on Apple podcasts.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: The night is going to happen, Me and two of
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: my friends rode to Harvard and leave.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: There.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: Used to be a restaurant there, a seafood restaurant called
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: Dave Servant Turf. We used to come all the way
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: across down to go there, and they had cameras in there.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: I got to telling her, I said, man, do is
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: go to the day Surf. I'm on the cameras when
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: you walk in till the clock. I told him everything
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: I ordered, because I went in and ordered for all
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: three of us.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: However, this camera footage from the time of the crime
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: never surfaced. Meanwhile, back at the police station, Chris was
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: photographed in the outfit they had chosen for him, and
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: his interrogation continued.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: This goes through the nighttime. Detective Schmidt keeps coming to you,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Chris right, and trying to question you, question you repeatedly
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: over the course of the night. Every time you told
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: me before Right you were about to fall asleep, he'd
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: come back in and pull you out to question you
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: some more, you know, just trying to wear Chris down,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: trying to get him to say something, you know, that
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: would implicate him.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: I didn't have no tell him I didn't do nothing
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: like a ball the phone.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: The following day, the victim came in to make an identification,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: but curiously, instead of viewing a liveline, investigators chose to
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: show her a photo array.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: So the photo array contains a photograph of Chris from
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: his arrest, wearing this shirt that Schmidt has handed to
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: him that has this, you know, kind of design on it.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: But I also think everybody else in Atlanta had on
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: County orange.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you look different than the other pictures. So that's
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: another piece of the puzzle here, right. So LB looks
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: at this array of photos for like four or five minutes,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: is what the record show. That's a while, you know,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: to look and think. Eventually she ends up picking out Chris.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Chris is arrested based on the phone, but then on
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: the identification. This is what leads to him being charged
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: with multiple counts of rape, aggravated robbery, aggravated burglary, kidnapping,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: intimidation of Filoniu's assault, the.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Saying they put me in a Cleveland Heights. It was
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: a board outside the window, so anytime I looked up
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: out the window, you got all my name and all
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: them charges. I'm like when I see what I was
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: in there because they said robbery, I see the try.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: I'm like man with a rape and all that come for.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: This identification from Schmidt to LB is the through line
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: to how Chris then ends up wrapped up in this
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: criminal case he had nothing to do with.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Not only was this a cross racial misidentification, which study
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: after study after study have shown are less accurate than
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: guessing yeah, you heard that right, but then further suggestion
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: was added through this careful selection of clothing by detective Shit, don't.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Please, don't put that on you. That was an accident?
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Was it?
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I can't help my subconscious, okay, but really accident.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: At this point, the case was as good as closed.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Except for the rape kit. So far, we just know
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: that there had been two contributors.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: At the time, they use what was new technology is
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: str DNA testing. That's primitive compared to what we've got
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: available as technology at the current. So they test the
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: samples in the rape kit. There's a mixture. There are
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: two contributors, and only one contributor could be identified at
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: the times with the str DNA testing. What we knew
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: is the contributor was a single mail profile Chris was
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: excluded from being that particular contributor, so he's not that guy.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: There is another contributor, though, right, and that second contributor
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: was determined to have been an azospermatic contributor.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: So the guy had a low sperm count.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Chris doesn't have that problem. Chris, you know, gave his
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: DNA to write for comparison.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: He was excluded from the spermatic contributor by the DNA
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: testing and then excluded as the other contributor by logic.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: He didn't have a low sperm count, so this should
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: have ended the madness right then and there, but instead
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: they tried to square the circle.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Said they found DNA on my jersey didn't match her.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: They tried to test your clothes for cat hairs, hoping
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: they would match Elbie's cats.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Right, because my mother had cats that didn't match. Dude,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know this lady. He wasn't me.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: You can hear about hair comparison on Wrongful Conviction Junk
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Science that'll be linked in the episode description. So while
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: they were tinkering around with fucking cat hair, Chris awaited
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: trial from jail for a year and a half and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: then in Walks's public defender who instead of trying to
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: track down the restaurant camera footage or hiring an expert
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: to explain that Chris was ruled out of being a
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: contributor in the rape kit, she relayed the prosecutions deal
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: cop out an idea, you're alleged accomplice.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: She just kept trying to give me to come out
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: to seven years. I'm like, I'm not coming on those
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: sel years. They want to give you a long time.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: I said, well, they give me all of it. I
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: ain't about scoping those seven years. I ain't do I said, man,
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: get out of here.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: You were not going to stand down. And at a
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: certain point, you know, before you're getting ready to go
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: to trial, your lawyer puts on the record she's told
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: you about the plea deal, right, and you've refused it.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: You're continuing to say you're innocent. The court talked to
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: you right and wanted to make sure you understood the
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: risks to go into trial.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, they was trying to take my life for
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: somebody to do something. But I'm like, I got a fight.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I can't lay down like that. Man. I couldn't. Then
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: it was too much time. I'm like, hey, and I
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: didn't do nothing like I'm not gonna see here just
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: copp out to something. At least if I go to
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: trial Va Louse, I could still fight it. You know
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: That's the fucked up math that Chris and so many
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: other men and women are forced to do. I mean,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: deciding whether or not to roll the dice on what
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: could happen as a result of taking a case to trial.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: And for Chris, this was a trial that should have
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: never even happened. If he was azospermatic, maybe they could
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: have said he was the second contributor, but he didn't
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: have a low sperm count. Nevertheless, trial began in January
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: two thousand and two, and this is what the state
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: had to present.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: It was made in the phone and the id ID
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: and that was it right.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Everything they did. It wasn't nothing from my fingerprints. K here.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I really can't with this. I mean the fucking cat
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: hair like.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: So no physical evidence connecting Chris to the crime whatsoever.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Then it appears that maybe the prosecutor knew the case
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: was weak considering how he argued the case.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to just read a quote from the prosecutor
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: from the opening statements. He goes several days later when
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: he's arrested with some of the same clothing on that
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: she had described to Detective Schmidt that he had on
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: that night. And listen carefully. She will describe for you
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the clothing that he was wearing and some of that
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: same clothing he had on a couple days later when
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: he was arrested, and the prosecutor tells the jury that
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: LB will talk to you very specifically about what she
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: saw with regard to the clothing.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Up until this point, we've been referring to LB's initial
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: description of the clothes blue jeans, white T shirt with
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: a circular pattern in black, and a green jacket. However,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: this initial description was not shared with the defense, so
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: they didn't have it in order to impeach her trial testimony, and.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: So in the trial, LB identifies this black jean jacket
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: as the one that the perpetrator wore that night. LB
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: describes the attacker who had the gun right in this duo.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: She describes him as having now a V neck shirt
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: with a half circle. The writing she testified was his
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: half circle, and it looked to be like what she
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: said was the state's exhibit, which was your Raptor's jersey,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: albeit admits that she's only seen one of the attackers briefly,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: but she testified at the trial she was confident that
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: her identification of Chris was right.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she got up there and point me on. He
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: was on top of me. I'm like wow.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: But Chris was excluded by the DNA evidence as one
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: contributor as well as the azospermatic designation of the second.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: So forensic asper testify there's no physical evidence, including Danna
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: her figure Princess, specifically tie Chris to this crime. Lena
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: testifies she saw Chris at home that night.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Lena was Chris's girlfriend, and then two more alibi witnesses
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: were presented, starting with the guy he was with when
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: he got the phone, Desman Fletcher.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: But there were some little discrepancies in his story from
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: what really happened.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: He let the the texts them scare him, like he
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: don't remember what due had on. He had them all black, Dude,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: you don't remember what he had on? The say that
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: he had MUNI already knew he gonna come here and
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: say something like he messed up, like he don't remember,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: all right, knew that I said, cause lit Yes, him
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Munity Rustling walked down the al I'm like, fuck, you
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: got muney phone five piece? What is gonna plump his
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: stomach for a five dollar piece? Of eighteen's ago.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Since the official story went that Fletcher sold Dwayne Collins
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: crack after Colin sold Chris the phone, it appears that
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: they were holding drug charges over Fletcher's head while he testified,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: and who knows what effect that had on his truthfulness
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: or his appearance to the jury. However, they were able
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: to locate Dwayne Collins.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: I'll say, if I would have never met him, I
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be here. Man. He had to fall first, so
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: y'all should have him here. When they brought him in there,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Dwayne Kylas told him that he sold me the phone
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: and everything. I'm going home, And.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: It appears the jury didn't have an easy time with it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: On one hand, you had a definitive identification from the victim,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: who also said that the clothes Chris was wearing when
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: he was arrested with a clothes worn by the assailant.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: But then there was a plausible story about the phone
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: as well as DNA testing and the azos pramatic contributor
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: that excluded Chris, but maybe that was just about confusing
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: enough for the jury to totally misunderstand.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: The jury deliberated for three days in this case. It's
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: a long time. There was clearly a struggle to determine
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: what the outcome was going to be in this case.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: But eventually they came to a verdict aggravated burglary, two
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: counts of rape with a sexually violent predator specification, as
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: well as aggravated robbery, kidnapping, flowings of salt intimidation along
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: with firearms specifications for all this stuff. And this too
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: is at a time in Ohio where you hit a
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: specific year's sentence, right, so you get what you get.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: It's not like you serve ten and then you get
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: a chance to go to the parole board and see
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: if you serve the rest. It wasn't like that at
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the time Chris was in prison on this sentencing regime
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: in Ohio.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, they came back in they made like guilty.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I'm like, mentally, I wasn't even there. It took me
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: months before and realize so much time. I got man
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: forty years flat. Then sink in it won real too.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: I had to go through the sex program with all
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: the rapists and sex offenders all over Ohio. There was
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: some weird motherfucker said, hear me this guy next door.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: I ain't no, but I kept asking the guy I
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: was the selling, like man, why that lady on? What
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: you going there and sell? A couple of days the
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: dude taught me said, just standing the door, y'alls to watch.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: So I stood in the door while she tearing the
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: sail up she had was doing collides. I said, oh,
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: this dude tripping. He was cuttings as of girls. He
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: cut him off the paper and they underwear and all that.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: After the shopping sparked making colliges. That was a wake
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: up call, cause it's a it's a dorm for the
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: sex offender. That's for real, That's all it is. It
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: was guys like my age, nineteen twenty years old. It
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: was fireman in there cocks. That was the weirdest shit
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: I ever went through my life.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, violence against women finds a home in seemingly every
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: walk of life. In fact, it turned out that the
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: pervasionists of violence against women even became an issue with
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Christ's jury for post conviction.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: Well jew said, oh, he looked he looked guilty when
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: I came in, getting to kind of found out she
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: was in the rape for Robert case herself, so she
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: shouldn't have been on the jury. So when they bring
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: me back from the EVERDJ here the prostitutent that got
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: to the lady. Now that they're told on everybody, they'll
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: mess with her. Now she don't even want to talk.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: And so that issue didn't pan out for Chris after
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: his initial denials. A bit of serendipity worked in Chris's favor.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: In two thousand and four.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: So Ohio a Bureau of Criminal Investigation and Identification also
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: known as BCI. They have this database access to DNA profiles,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: and they turn up a hit to one of the
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: male DNA profiles from the LB rape kit in the
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Federal Code of database. It matches a guy named Richard
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Marlin Stadmeire.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Like with most of these cases, while the state is
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: busy prosecuting an innocent person, the actual assailants remained free
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: to commit more heinous acts. It's almost like the tax
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: dollars that we pay are funding a system that protects
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the actual perpetrators while they go about framing innocent people.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: So while detective Schmidt was putting around with cat hairs.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Another rape and robbery happened in May two thousand and one.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just about three weeks after the LB rape.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: In May two thousand and one, Stadmeire and another guy
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: were arrested and charged with sexual assault and battery. Is
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: about only five miles away from where Albe's apartment was
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: in Mayfield Hights, Ohio. Wow. And in that other case,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: the perpetrators ambush the victim, held a gun to her neck,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: They forced her under her car, and they sexually assaulted
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: and robbed her. And Stadmeyer was caught quickly for that case.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: He was convicted in March of two thousand and two.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: The other man involved turned out to Stadmeyer's friend and accomplice,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Charles Boyd. And Boyd in that case he pled guilty
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: to the Mayfield Heights attack and.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: He had to. When they take the chick to the ATM,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: the camera and the ATM called us tattoo.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: He got a lenient sentence in exchange for testifying against
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Dadmire at trial.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: In that one serial predators man.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Going back to Chris's case, remember there were two DNA profiles.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Stadmeire matched the one that Chris had already been excluded
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: from right, the azospomatic contributor still remains unidentified at that point. Now,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: of course, Charles Boyd should have been the obvious person
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: to go test and compare and try to see if
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: he's that second person, given this other case from three
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: weeks later, five miles away.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Instead, Detective Schmidt once again tried to fit that same
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: old square peg into the round hole.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Detective Schmidt goes and interviews Stadmeyre and Boyd. Right, both
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: guys were initially not cooperative. They denied involvement in the
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: LB attack. Schmidt shows both men pictures of Chris Miller
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: at the time Boyd was Mansfield. He confirmed at that
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: time that he didn't know Chris, he only recognized him
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: as another guy in the same prison. Stadmeyer also looked
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: at the photo array told Schmidt he couldn't identify anybody.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Several weeks later, Schmidt goes back and reinterviews Boyd, and
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: at this point in time, miraculously Boyd comes around. He
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: admits he's part of the attack against delb. He can
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: describe Lbe's apartment with a lot of detail, but he's
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: adamant that he never actually went in the apartment and
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: instead he was just the lookout guy while Stadmeyer and
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Chris went in and raped del B. Boyd claimed that
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: he had only met Chris a few hours before the
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: attack against Delb and that after the rape, he and
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: stan Meyer went up to a club to split the
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: proceeds from the robbery, and Chris simply disappeared on foot,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: you know, miles away from where Chris lived.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Phanom I'll want none of the money. I'm cool.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes no sense, he.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Said, his friend brought me to him. You'll free of
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: bringing me to you. You just wanna go rob somebody
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: with me?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: You won't know me. Come on, that's crazy, right.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: We can only guess how Schmidt got Boyd to change
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: his story.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Well, let me shed maybe a little bit of light
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: on that. You can make some inferences if you want.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: This is something that came out in our subsequent civil case.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: So again, even at the time of the exoneration, nobody
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: knew this yet. We in our civil case got an
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: affidavit from Richard Stadmeyer about when Schmidt came to see him,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: and so I'm going to read you some of the
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: things that he says. At some point in two thousand
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: and four. Two thousand and five, I met with the
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Tecta Schmidt in another officer. Detecta Schmidt showed me a
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: card with two rows of photographs. I told the tectave
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Schmidt that I did not know anyone in the photographs.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Detective Schmidt called me a smart ass and said, are
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: you sure you don't know c. Mills. Detective Schmidt then
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: showed me the photographs again and pointed out a photograph
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: of a man. I did not recognize the man in
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: the photograph. I later learned that the man in the
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: photograph was Christopher Miller. Detectave Schmidt told me to quote
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: make this easier on myself. I understood that Detective Schmidt
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: was telling me that if I identified Chris Miller from
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: his photograph as the rapist, then he would help me.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Detective Schmidt said he knew that Christopher Miller was the
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: rapist and asked if I was just to look out.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I again told him I do not know Christopher Miller.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Detectave Schmidt became angry and frustrated. Detecta Schmidt threatened me
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: that he was going to talk with Charles Boyd and
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: say that Boyd would be eager to give up information.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: So I think there's some assumptions we could make about
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: how his conversation with BOYD went to that come out
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: of that. Sadmar's indicted rape, robbery, kidnapping, all of these things.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: He pleads not guilty. He goes to trial. Of course,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Chris testifies at the Sammar trial, basically again asserting her
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: innocence and being like, I don't know anything about any of.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: This, right, well, I don't know them. Now he got stall,
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: he told him, like I don't know him. He went
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: with us, the prosecutor. You get to cussing me out,
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: like why am I trying to get you out? Why
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: are you trying to get you out? Saying, man, I
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: ain't due with bro. That's all I can tell you.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: I didn't do it.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know them dues, and they just send me
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: back to the BOD.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Now, remember LB, and everything we've ever heard has always
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: been consistent. There are only two guys involved in this attack. Now,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Schmidt saying on the stand, even though he testified in
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Chris's trial about her telling him about two attackers, now
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: it's sad Meireer's trial. He's saying, he told me there
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: were three guys. And he's pressed about this. He says
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: about LB quote is not her responsibility to remember the
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: facts of the case, which is just wild.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: On June twelfth, two thousand and six, Dad Meyer got
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: an additional forty three years. Chris's conviction was strengthened by
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: what appears to have been perjured testimony, and Boyd took
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: a five year sentence for his alleged role as a lookout.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: And concurrent with the case he was already serving, right.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, Chris tried to get a
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: new trial on the Code has Hit, but the motion
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: was denied. Meanwhile, the OHIO In Thisis Project began investigating
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Chris's innocence claims.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you can request a set of records from a
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: place and not get anything useful or new, and you
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: request the same set you know later on right, and
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: you're going to get different stuff. Sometimes that's what happens.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen, though, when things really break, because that's
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: when they finally they get a response to a public
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: records request that they've sent. It includes new police reports,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: new notes, handwritten notes from Schmidt written shortly after the
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: attack on LB being disclosed for the very first time.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: These reports and these notes contained exculpatory evidence, and they
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: show that Schmidt has presented false and fabricated evidence to
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: the prosecutors and during the trial and given false testimony
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: throughout the course of this case.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: This is when they discovered LB's initial description of the
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: attackers close and how that changed to align with what
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Schmid had pulled from Chris's hamper and closet.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: And this now forms the basis for new post conviction
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: filings for Chris that his counsel, Brian Howe of the
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Ohio Innocence Project filed for him, and that included an
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: application for DNA testing, a motion for new trial, and
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: a petition for post conviction relief.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: The latter two were stayed, while newer and more sensitive
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: DNA testing for the azosbramatic contributor moved forward.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Neil Brien was just talking two or three times a week.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: You know, we've been waiting on the DNA.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: May thirty one, twenty eighteen, BCI issues that report. Lo
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: and Behold comes back. It's Charles Boyd.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Sort of lose a full life news on. Everybody in
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: the dorm gonna wait me up, man, you're on a TV,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: but I got my headphones on something like what he like,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: stand up? So when I stood up out my faces
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: on everybody TV in the door, I'm like, so he
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: turned my TV to try to wait on watching him
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: like man, I was. He got a kicking and hind
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: the walls. I was like, whoa, that was real. Then
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: the CEOs like they were sitting in the dudes from
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: they blocks, go get see meals, tell him come over here,
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: like I know you didn't do that. You ain't your character?
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Man?
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: That was so surreal. Then Brian come see me go
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: in the room. Brian got his note bad I'm reading
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: upside down. He got his questious like where I want
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: to eat? Like I'm kind of like, I mean tears now,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: like you know, yeah, that was awesome.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: That dude fought he used to come see me on
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: the regular. Man, I got so much love for her, like,
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: ain't my family? You know that DNA coming back was
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: the best thing that ever happened to me.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Amen to that. So where'd you go to eat?
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: Real lobster? I met all the guys, all the other things.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Nanner reeves that day was like I can't believe that
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: I was out to this day is still like is
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: emotional to me.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Chris was soon reunited with his children.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: You know, my oldest daughter, she stayed with me. My
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: three grandkids and my son stayed next door because I
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: bought my mother house next door to me, So my
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: mother and my son stayed next door, and me and
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: my daughter and my grandkid had stayed house next door.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: His eldest daughter was the five year old little girl
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: who had run to her father handcuffed in the back
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: of the squad car on April thirtieth, two thousand and one.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: There's no amount of money that could make up for
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: that lost time, but at least the civil suit made
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: it possible to afford the house Chris just mentioned, but
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: not before he had to face Detective Schmidt.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: You know, I can't face the face with him. I
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: got he was in the room for two hours and
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: didn't even say nothing.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Turn your deposition.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: He was in the room with me and Sarah for
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: two hours, shook my hand and anything. When I walked
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: in there, when his lawyer said, yeah, my client, Mark Smith.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: When I heard that name, I said who, he said, Marshman,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: I said where he said? He nodded his head doing
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: and when I looked at him, I looked at him
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: his head and I just everything came back. All I
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: remember he had, he got the little psoriasisting on his
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: elbows and all on his hands. But the whole time
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: in the room he looking out the window like this.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, and you you didn't recognize him
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: at first. So and it has a party to a lawsuit,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: you have a right two at ten depositions, But you
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: also have a choice about whether you come to stuff
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: like that. And I got a lot of cases where
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: you know, those officers don't show up. Mark Sant he
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: decided he was going to come to this one, you know.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: The social path.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Well, at least he had the good sense to look away.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: I said, why you won't look at me? Dude? These
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: a piece of ship.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Going through these lawsuits is awful. I mean, it's obviously
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: fathomably awful to be in prison for a crime you
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: didn't commit and then seeking vindication through civil rights cases
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: in the aftermath. Is it keeps the wound open, and
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: it's like rubbing salt in the wound. And then you
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: got to sit in the room and be polite to
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: these people who took away years and years of your life.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: You know his lords won't be out of light.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: No, they're not. So is there anything you'd like to
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: ask from our audience.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: Just know that this could happen to anybody. Happening. Your brother's,
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: your sisters, your mom. You're happening, and they're you're not
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: going to stop. So the people's jail, you know, it's
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: still dues in there doing the rest of their life.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: There is there anyone in particular that's coming to mind
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of guys. The Anthony Johnson, he's still
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: in there. They stole all his evidence.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Anthony Johnson. All right, well, let's talk after this about Anthony.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: And with that we're gonna go to my favorite part
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: of the show. It's called closing arguments, where I first
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: thank you both from the bottom of my heart for
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: joining us, and then I'm just gonna kick back in
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: my chair, close my eyes and listen to anything else
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: you feel is left to be said. So let's start
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: with Jacqueline and then Chris, you take us off into
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: the sunset.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I think the conduct of Mark Schmidt in this case,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: it's one of the worst kinds of police misconduct where
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: he was so hell bent on getting and then keeping
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: a conviction that he was willing to manipulate other people
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: and to lie on the stand. And there's no denying that,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: because there's two sets of testimony that are totally different.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: You know, we have these records in his own handwriting
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: that make that clear. And it just goes to I
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: think the really deeply rooted problems in our criminal legal
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: system where winning is so often more important than the truth,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: and what justice are we serving and how are we
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: in any way serving our communities or our societies if
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: that's what our legal system is set up to do
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: and the players in it are attempting to do. I'm
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: so glad that the truth came to light in this case,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: but I'm also just so enraged and sad that Chris
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: had to live through this hell. You know, before that happened.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: You know, he's not the only one, Like he just said,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: there are other people. There are a lot of other
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: people who've lived the same kind of hell. We have
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: to demand better, we have to demand different, We have
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: to radically change the way our legal system works or
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: this kind of thing is going to keep happening. So
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that we got here, but we have hell
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of work to do.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: It's been a hard fight. I ain't never really been
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: quitter never, so I don't I don't know about quitting,
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: you know. And the prosecutors they need to start getting
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: some some you know, they need something, needapping in for
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: just sending people to jail like that. It's like just
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: sending people jail with no evidence, no nothing, you know,
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: like people fucked my life up, you know, even though
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: I'm finding notally able to live, wonder my life still
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: fucking GOSDT, anxieties, this other stuff, mental health, but I'm
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: able to deal with it. My man never raised me
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: later out so I can't take care of my family
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: and try to enjoy the rest of his life. I got.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: You know, it's a free man because I wasn't living.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: I was I wasn't living in there. I wasn't living.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcast
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: us one week early by subscribing to Lava for Good
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cleiburn. The
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time Oscar
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: My name is Laura Asil. Your podcast has actually had
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: a profound impact on my life. I happened to pawn
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: your podcast about five years ago, and at that time,
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: I thought, like a lot of people, that if you
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: were in prison, you did something wrong and you're guilty.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: I never, in a million years thought that prosecutors and
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: detective I just never thought they could get away with
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: all the stuff that they've gotten away with. And from
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: there I started getting interested in a lot of other
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: social issues because I think the criminal justice system really,
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: in my mind, is kind of a snapshot of racism
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: and classism and all those kinds of things. When I
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: started listening to your podcast, I would probably have labeled
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: myself a conservative. I am now a registered Democrat and
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: someone who is very active in my community. I volunteer
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: in the criminal justice system. I volunteer to help put
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: Democrat candidates in office. I don't think that anybody would
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: have had on my BINGO card that I would have
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: been a volunteer for any Democrat ever, and that my
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: politics would completely completely change and the way I thought
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: about a lot of things completely changed. So I want
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: to thank you for opening up my eyes. I want
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: to thank all your wonderful guests for sharing their stories
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: and being people who forced me to listen. Like I said,
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: my whole outlook and everything on the whole world our
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: country completely changed, and it started just by listening to
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: one episode of your podcast.