Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #217: Talking About How We Talk About Hunting w/Modern Huntsman

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Wired To Hunt Podcast #217: Talking About How We Talk About Hunting w/Modern Huntsman · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number two d and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: seventeen and te In the show, I'm joined by Charles Post,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Tyler Sharp, and Brad Nethery to discuss their new publication,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Modern Huntsman, and the question of how we represent and
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: communicate our hunting lifestyle. All Right, welcome to the Wired
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to Hunt podcast. And in the show, we've got an
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: interesting and particularly unique episode. I think it's it's a
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: real thinker. I'd say we're joined in this one, as
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I mentioned a second ago, by three guys who are
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: involved in the publishing of a new premium print magazine
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: called Modern Huntsmen. And this publication is taking a really
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: unique angle on hunting, with a focus on framing most
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: of their content in a way that it's more catered
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: towards non hunters or brand new hunters, or maybe folks
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: that have been intrigued by hunting by way of the
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: local food movement, you know, that type of thing. And
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: what's interesting is, at least from this team's perspective, Much
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: of the traditional hunting media available in the past hasn't
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: necessarily spoken very well to these aforementioned groups. And let's
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: be honest. I think that if you took your non
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: hunting urban friend from work and stuck them in front
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: of the TV to watch some big buck TV show
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: or gave them a copy of a popular deer hunting magazine,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: do you think that they'd resonate with that material? You know,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: do you really think they've been trigued to get involved
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: after seeing dozens of pictures of big dead deer and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: articles about kinetic energy and food plots, or what about
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: after watching a guy fist pumping and hooting and hollering
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: in a tree after shooting a deer. I think that
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: while many of us within the hunting community might enjoy
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, I think it is easy to
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: see how this might not appeal as much to those
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: on the outside looking in. But that's left this big
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: gap between much of the content being produced and then
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the needs of a growing audience of people that are
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: interested in hunting. Maybe, but they're not knowing what to
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: do with that intrigue. So that's where these guys Brad
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Tyler and Charles come in and their new project, Modern Huntsmen.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: So today in the show, we chat with these guys
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: about their inspiration for this new project and then the
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: different issues that they're trying to address with this work,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: stuff like how hunters communicate about hunting, and the importance
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: of improving the non hunting world's perception of hunters, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: a role as hunters and conservationists moving forward into the future,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: and and just a whole lot more than that. And
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: within this group, it's it's interesting because we have a
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: relatively sly converted non hunter to hunter. We have a
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: professional photographer and hunter and videographer. We have a former
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: vegetarian and ecologist and filmmaker. So needless to say, it's
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: a conversation packed with with just really unique ideas and
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: opinions and perspectives which are sometimes right in line with
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: the things we typically talk about in the hunting world
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: and sometimes quite different. So, without further ado, let's take
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: a quick break to thank our partners at White Tailed
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Properties and then we'll get right to the episode. So,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: as we've mentioned on many past episodes, White Tail Properties
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: and their land specialists, in addition to being a go
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: to option for those interested in buying or selling recreational properties.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: They're also a great resource when it comes to learning
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: more about hunting or managing land for wildlife, and their
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: YouTube series called land Beat is a perfect example of this,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: and just this week they launched a new video about
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: the value of working with a forester when developing a
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: landman has been planned and we've discussed this on past episodes.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: You know the fact that how properly managing timber on
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: a piece of ground can really benefit the wildlife on
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: your property. But but knowing how to do this in
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the right way and how you can possibly financially benefit
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: from two you know, that's important to know before getting started,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: and that's what this video shares. It talks about exactly
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: how a forrester can help you do that. So, if
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: you're in a situation like this where land and timber
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: management is on your horizon, but you're not exactly sure
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: where to start or what to do next, I definitely
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: recommend heading over to the White Tailed Property's YouTube channel
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: and checking out this recent video, which is titled quite poetically,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I might add make money on your timber consulting a forrester.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: What you need to know? I don't know if it's
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: a haiku or something, but it is a helpful short video.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: So check it out. And now on to the show.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: All right with me? Now we've got a full house.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I've got Brad Tyler and Charles all with me. And
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: rather than beating around the bush bread, I wanted to
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: start with you, being the founder of modern huntsman, can
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: you just set this stage for us? What is this?
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Why did you create this? How did the idea come abow?
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so, the whole concept started. Um I My background
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: is as a non hunter. Um and and not necessarily
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: somebody who had never hunt hunted, but somebody who really
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: didn't associate with hunters in general. There was this disconnect
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: with how I felt about hunting and the way that
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I engaged in the land. Um, I was a meat
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: eater and um My, you know, I grew up in Texas,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: and so hunting really isn't a negative topic here. It's
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: just kind of you know, if you do it, great,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: if you don't great. Um And so, given the luxury
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: of choice between the grocery store field, I kind of
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: felt like I was a more responsible human because I
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I bought my meat rather than killing more animals and
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: that was a pretty accepted way of thinking. UM. But
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: it was about five years ago that I was really
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: uh introduced with a with a topic from a hunter
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: who kind of pope and questioned, you know, if you
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: eat meat and you're somebody who appreciates the outdoors or
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: somebody who is you know, for wildlife conservation, what is
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: it about you that pushes you away from hunting? And
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: it was a it was a question that I had
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to wrestle with um and had to kind of force
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: myself to give some thought too. And what I came
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: up with was it wasn't that I was necessarily opposed
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: to hunting, because you know, I've grown up about once
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: a year, Dad and I would go out in the
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: field and go deave hunting, and um, just to be
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: together as father and son. It was not at all
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: to be a serious hunter by any means, would just
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: be together. UM. And so when I was proposed you,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: when I was given the question, I had to really
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: think through, you know, why I was against it. So
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: it wasn't that I was against hunting, but there was
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: more so this this image that I had when somebody
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: were to say, you know that they are a hunter.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I almost put this image in my head and I
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be that. Um. I didn't really know why.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I just didn't want to be that UM. So when
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: I when I had to really wrestle with the question,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: what I came up with was there's a reception of
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: hunting and hunters in America that really turns off the
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: rest of the non hunters, you know, the rest of
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: America that quantifiably there's six of people in America who
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: are agnostic to hunting. You know, they they eat meat,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: they you know, they have an appreciation for wildlife. They've
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: just never really been presented with hunting and they never
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: really haven't had a good opportunity to understand what hunting
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: is all about. So as a as an entrepreneur and
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: a cereal uh you know, creator, I couldn't let this pass.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: And so I thought, Man, we've got to create. I've
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: got to create something that starts to open up hunting
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: to non hunters and gives them a reason to see this.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: The way that I've seen this been shown kind of
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: a new direction and a new vision in this um
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And it really starts with the creatives and brands and
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: organizations inside the industry that are telling the story in
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: a way that's both approachable and and aspirational to everybody
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: who's really only seen, you know, kind of the one
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: sided which is not objectively wrong, but the camo uh mindset.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: And so there was a lot of creatives in the
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: space who were coming at it from a much more um,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: not romantic perspective, but honest perspective, this story in a
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: much larger format that I was able to digest and
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: feel a connection to. And so I started an Instagram
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: channel called Modern huntsman um and started to curate content
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: from photographers and filmmakers and brands and organizations who I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: fell or were distributing this this media in a way
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: that felt good, felt the way that I believe hunters
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: feel um whenever they whenever they hunt. And so in
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: doing that, UM, we started to build this channel, me
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: and my my partner early on and UH when we
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: when we got to a point of uh, about five
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: weeks after we started the channel, we had about five
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: thousand followers, and it was like, Okay, this is this
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: is real, and this is a need in the industry.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: And the majority of the people that were following us
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: were actually non hunters. So in light of that, um,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I knew that this needs to expand out further. Um So,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: fate happened and I met Tyler, whom had this vision
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: that I had, but he has a totally different background
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: as regard to, you know, being a hunter and a
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: filmmaker photographer. Um So I met him and we shared
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: this similar vision and a similar approach to create a
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: platform that we could um present to both the hunting
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: and the non hunting communities that would conversation. UM I'll
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: let Tyler take it from here. Yeah, So without taking
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: too much time on my background, I mean, I'm a photographer, writer,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: and director and I've been working in the outdoor industry
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: for the last twelve years and a lot of the
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: culmination of my frustration with my experience in the hunting
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: industry and with from without the hunting industry has kind
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: of led to this. And the first time Brand and
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: I met about three years ago, he kind of told
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: me about what he was wanting to do, but I
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: wasn't sure which direction to take it. And I said, Hey,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I know this is gonna sound weird because we just met,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: but what you're describing is probably going to be my
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: life's work and you need to hire me as your
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: creative director right now. And he was like, okay, well,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: let's finish this coffee and we can talk about it. UM.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, I just I you know, I
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: traveled UM all over the world filming for several but
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: for hunting shows UM, and just kind of had a
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: little more of a traditional view of the hunting industry.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: And part of my frustration with that was that even
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: though there are a lot of people who are dedicated conservationists,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: ethical hunters, UM, in most cases they are talking to
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a room full of members of the same club and
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: they say, hey, we all believe this right, and everybody
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: says yeah. But then when that conversation leaves the room
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and it and it is applied to a you know,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: non hunting public, it it ceases to become productive and
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: it often becomes a conflict. And so that was half
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of my frustration. And the other half of my frustration
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: was when I would come back from places in Africa
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: or Russia or Pakistan or wherever on hunts and my
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: friends and family who don't have an insight into hunting's
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: role in conservation, they would get often emotional or upset
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: at me for things that they've read online that aren't
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: true about you know, animals being threatened it aren't or
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: just the way hunting actually works, sort of having this
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: perception of what a trophy hunter is. And so those
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: two things combined, UH, for the last ten or twelve years,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I've really wanted to find a way to improve both
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: of those situations. Uh, find a way to help hunters
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: communicate to a non hunting public in a way that's
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: less aggressive and less exclusive, and then vice versa, a,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: non find ways to educate the public about you know,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: hunting's rolling conservation, that that there are people who conduct
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: themselves in a much more ethical and honorable way than
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: than what you might see and sensationalized news headlines or
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Facebook posts and all that kind of stuff. And so
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: we sort of came to the conclusion that we need
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: to produce a magazine, and that led to Volume one
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: of Modern huntsmen Um. And so, you know, it's a
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: it's a two or four page book with no ads,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, Brad and I kind of hand picked
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: all the people we wanted to have involved, and from
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the very beginning it became clear that our number one
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: recruit would be Mr Charles Post, who is who I
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: believe to be a unicorn in the hunting world. Um.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: And so him and I are now working together to
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: move into volume two of Modern Huntsmen to try to
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: achieve these goals. But I'll use that. Let Charles give
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: you a little bit of his background. Oh, two kinds, Tyler. Um, Yeah,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: so I guess to fill the shoes of the unicorn
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: that I've been offered. Um My, yeah, my background is
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: a bit interesting, and that I did grow up hunting.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: You know, my my father was a hunter. He was
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: also kind of a lifelong conservationist, was on the board
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: of California Trout. My grandfather was a Harvard trained forrester
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: who also hunted wolves in Minnesota back when there's a
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: bounty on them. So I grew up staying at their
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: place in Virginia and the wolf skins were the blankets
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: we had in the in the rooms we stayed. And
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: so it's kind of this weird thing where I grew
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: up in California and Marine County, which is an incredibly
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: liberal part of the state. UM ended up pursuing undergraduate
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: and graduate degree at UC Berkeley's studying ecology there. Uh,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: you know, Berkeley's for Better if it Works, probably one
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: of the most liberal institutions on earth. Um. But it
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: gave me this really interesting dual perspective of of hunting,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: of stewardship, conservation, and also you know, a really close
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: connection to you know, a largely non hunting world. You know,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: there there definitely are hunters in central and northern California,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: but I think the overwhelming population of the area is
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: frankly pretty disconnected from the hunting community in the hunting world,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: so kind of straddled this line of you know, of
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: one foot in each in each camp. Um. You know,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I understand the far right and I understand the far left,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and I've spent a lot of time, um, you know,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: kind of rubbing shoulders with friends and family and peers
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: who identified both places. But you know, when Tyler and
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Brad you know, kind of sprouted this modern huntsman idea,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: it was something in that that felt right. It was
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: something that you know, I think intentive come at a
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: better time because for me, you know what my life's
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: work and my passion you know, really kind of orbits
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: this idea of stewardship and this reality that now more
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: than ever, we need to get people outside and need
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: to build bridges as opposed to illuminating these these points
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: of conflict or these perceived points of conflict. And you know,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: while I really appreciate, you know, Brad's comment about or
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I was comment about people talking about Hunteen being these
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: kind of island situations where everybody echoes, you know, kind
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: of the same perspective, and then you you leave and
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: enter the public realm, and people don't really understand the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: lexicon or don't understand the pursuit or the passion. You know.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that's interesting here is
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: that not only do we need to change that narrative,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: but also real is that that if we can focus
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: on hunting as a group of people that does have
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the best and could be better end of the spectrum,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: we should be focusing on those best case examples of
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: stewardship of people who are hunting for the right reasons.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Because just like there are vegans who take it too far,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: there are vegans who do a mindful job. And I
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: think hunting is not perfect, and I think one of
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: the things that excites me about modern huntsmen this opportunity
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: is that we can profile and celebrate up with those
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: best stories that that show that hunting is not killing,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: it's hunting and hunting. You know, you could be a
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: deer hunter and never harvest the deer, and by virtue
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: of being a hunter, you care about nature and and
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: now more than ever, we need people to care about
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: these natural spaces. Um. So it's yeah, I think it's
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: a very timely effort, and it's it's an exciting one.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I think Issue one really set the stage um for
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: us to really dive into issue too, and it can
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: be more proud to be a part of what lies ahead. Yeah,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: it's it's exciting I think for me from the outside
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: looking into because a lot of your guys as concerns
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: and some of the different things that led you to
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: to create this have been things that have been on
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: my mind a lot too, and it's something I think
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: about a lot and talk about a lot. That being,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: you know, how do we as a hunting community better
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: represent ourselves, How do we better engage the non hunting public.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: You know, welcome those who are interested in joining us,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: and for those who aren't interested but are kind of
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: on the fence at least present a positive representation of
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: what we're doing and don't give people really easy, stupid
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: reasons to think those stereotypes are true. Um. But to
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: your point earlier, Tyler, that being that lots of times
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: us in the hunting community, especially those of us who
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: who grew up doing this, who don't know anything else. Um. Again,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: we're in this echo chamber. We just talked to each other,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and we don't ever or don't often think about what
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: things look like from the outside. But we're still posting
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: things on Facebook or Instagram, am or on TV shows
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: that sometimes the rest of the world sees many times
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: us not realizing what they're seeing and them not realizing
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: what we're seeing because there's not that shared context. Um.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: So my question for you, maybe first bread given you
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: know how you lead this off the fact that you
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: were a non hunter, but you were turned off by
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: this perception of what a hunter was or what the
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: stereotype of a hunter was. I'm curious, from from your
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: guys perspective, what are those things that turned you off?
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: What are the things you saw or the things you heard,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: or what actually flesh out what that negative connotation was
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: that turned you off to hunting, Because I think it's
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: it's helpful for those in the hunting community who maybe
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: don't think about this to hear from someone like you
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: to understand you, Oh wow, maybe I was saying things
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: in this way. I never thought that someone would be,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: you know, seeing that in a different way than I did. Um. So,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: so that's my long and rambling way of saying, can
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: you share some examples? Absolutely? And I want to answer
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: this question softly and be very cautious about how I
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: approach this because it's not an objective UM person or
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: a stance. It's it's more of UM how it's perceived.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Because what I've come to learn, you know, from my
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: background and non hunting and not having a lot of
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: interaction with hunters, is that the way that I perceived
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: this person. I'll kind of get into that just second.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: This this person UM when I talked to them different right,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: the way that they interact with me, and they talk
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: about wildlife and they talk about the experience that they
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: had hunting or or what it is for them, and
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: oftentimes it is something they grew up with, right that
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: they went out with their dad and their granddad, or
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: maybe their mom and their grandmother, and they this is
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a way of life. It's not, it's just the way
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that I thought about literally is the way that they
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: thought about hunting. And I had to kind of, you know,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: digest that and and realize that this is, this is
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: a way of life for so many people on me,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: my friends and family. It's not just people on the outside.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: But the stereotype that I had in my mind was
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: more so something that I've seen on social media, and
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I think everybody can kind of relate to it. And
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: it's just that kind of blood aggressive photo of you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the misinterpretation, the misunderstanding of what a trophy hunt might
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: look like. And it's it's the aggressive, um, you know,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: way of the um you know, holding up the bloody
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: head of a white tail and and it's it's got
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: his tongue hanging out, and it's just a poor representation
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and it's only one snapshot of what the full experience was.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: And that's something that you know, with my background in
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: in kind of the creative industry and um and really
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: understanding like how do we tell stories that are going
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: to connect and convey a much more honest and beautiful
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: depiction of whatever it is that we're talking about. People
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: get one moment to try and identify and understand with
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: a with a culture, and if it's a culture that
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: they're unfamiliar with, and especially one like this where it's
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: got so much political intensity and it's got so so
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: many people that are against it. We get one chance,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: often to show a representation of what we believe. And
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: if that one representation is the twisted neck of a
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: bloody white tail, it's not the story. And I know
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: that this is something that is not going to be
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: solved overnight. Right We're not going to be able to
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: release one issue of a of a publication that is
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: going to inspire and invigorate a new type of sharing
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: either stories or content on social media. But what I
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: hope to do, what we have all collectively worked so
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: hard to create, is is a way to kind of
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: spearhead and and lead a generation of people into um
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: conveying and representing hunting in a way that is both
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: honorable and respectful towards the wild life and the land,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: and also inspiring and aspirational towards those who may have
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: never even given hunting a second thought. And I'm gonna,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna, well go ahead. Did you have a question, No,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I was going to toss it to you, Charles or Tyler,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: so I'd love to hear we have to dad, Yeah,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: this is Tyler. I'm gonna jump in here. So yeah,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I think that, um, you know, my answer is kind
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: of too full to to piggyback on what Brad said.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I think that for me, you know, being deeply embedded
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: in the traditional hunting industry, you know, there were times
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: where I'd be out on hunts and you don't always
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: agree with people, right, you make your uh. You know,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: there's in the same way that we could all agree
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: on virtues right or honesty, courage, bravery, loyalty. Those are
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: all things that we can agree are good on a
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: moral scale. Well, I would like to think that there
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: are also similar virtues in hunting that we're trying to
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: represent through modern huntsmen and in the stories we tell
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and the people we involve. But not everybody adheres to
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: those And unfortunately the conversation, as Charles said about you
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: know this traditional fight of the right versus the left, Well,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: if you're not fully with us, you're against us. And
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: if you don't sign up for the you know, super
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: right wing, than you're a liberal communist Tippy, and I
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: found myself in situations where I didn't agree with someone
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: because I felt like they were using buzzwords like conservation
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: when they really weren't in fact a conservation minded person.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: They just wanted to kill something. And unfortunately, the way
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: that the fight and the conflict in that conversation has
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: become you're either one camp. You're in one camp or
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the other. And so we felt that there was kind
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: of a large population of people who live quiet lives
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: um who live in an ethical you know, hunting standard,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: or are dedicated conservationists, or really just hunt for their
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: own meat because it's part of their budget, you know,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and it's just part of their you know, their lifestyle
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: passed down through generations. That we felt that group of
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: people wasn't being really represented at all and definitely not
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: fairly represented. And so, you know, Brad's hold upon that
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: by accident with insta gram channel, and it has been
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: a booming echo that it is indeed much needed, that
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who don't agree with magazines, say,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: or the big brands who are more focused on selling
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: product than they are about the actual preservation of hunting tradition,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: and so we're trying to focus on that stuff, um
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: and and you know, with with non hunters, I'm trying
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: to really listen to what they have to say, and
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned, you know, what do they think about
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: what we post? And I think that that's one of
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the main points I'm trying to make about hunters is
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: we have to be very wary of the power of
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: images and how quickly information can spread for good or
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: online and what that can do to either improve the
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: perception of hunting or do further damage, because a lot
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: of damage has been been done and there's a lot
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: of images out there that can't be removed, and so
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: we're trying to show that there's a different way, and
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: that there's a different demographic of people that represent what
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: we feel are the main virtues of what hunting is
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: supposed to be. And through that, the tone we've taken,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: in the sensitivity that we're showing towards people who are
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: not hunters has worked. And there are a lot of
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: people who have ordered this magazine who were either vegans
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: or non hunters. And I just talked with the young
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: lady the other day from California who literally told me,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I read your magazine and was so inspired that I
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: signed up for a hunting camp in Washington and she
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: went up and learned how to hunt and shot her
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: first turkey and harvested it, and she said it's the
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: most amazing experience of her life. And she may not
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: be a hardcore hunter, but what we did directly caused
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: her to become interested. I think that the conclusion there
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: is that when when people who aren't hunters realize that
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: they can be quote a hunter, or they can provide
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: some food for themselves, maybe a couple of times a year,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: a deer or a turkey or a wild hog, and
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: they don't have to sign up for the rest, They
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: don't have to sign up for the gear and the
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: camo and the hunting conventions and all that. That they
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: can live their life in a in a way that feels,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: you know, rewarding and is more connected with the land.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: And that's something that they can do on their own terms,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and that we can help them find access to opportunities information.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: It's been really it's been. The reaction has been really positive.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: So let me let me present a different perspective playing
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: devil's advocate here, because I agree with everything you guys
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: are saying, and what I'm gonna present to you I
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: fundamentally disagree with. But this is something that even when
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I talked about this kind of stuff, sometimes you'll hear
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: this response. You'll say, why do I need to care
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: about what these other people think? Or why should we
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: want more non hunters to get into hunting. There's not
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: enough spots to hunt as it is. I don't need
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: more competition, Or why should I cater to some yuppie
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: over in this place who doesn't get me at all?
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah. You'll hear that kind of
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: response from people. Why what would your response to that?
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Um to that be? So I'm gonna give a real
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: quick response, and then I want Charles to jump in.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: My surface level response to that would be because we
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: now live in an age where they're our legislation, legislative opportunities,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: votes that come up about access to public lands that
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: the general public or people who might be against hunting
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: have a say in. And if we continue to combat
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: those people and treat them as people whose opinion don't matter,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: that's going to come back to bite us in the ass,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: and we could potentially lose access or hunting rights as
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: a result. And I'm gonna I'm gonna throw the ball
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: to Charles there. Yeah, you bring up a great point, Tyler,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: and and Mark, that's a really an interesting question. I
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: think what comes to mind for me, and to kind
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: of add to a little bit of what Tyler started
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: off introducing, is that most of the public land in
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: America is not instagram famous, you know, is not showing
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: up in the Chris burkhard feed or and then that
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: geo feed. The places that people harvest, you know, some
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: of the best mule deer in the Vada or Utah,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: or some of the best elk its in Montana, these
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: aren't places that people are going the hike in camp
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: and take you know, photos by the lake. So those
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: are just public lands. Those are just pieces of public land.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And like, like Tyler said that public land belongs to
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: all the hunters, but also everybody else, and people in
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Portland's and people in Salt Lake City and people in
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Boise who maybe have never hunted or could really care
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: less about it, they have a say. And like we've
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: talked about if if the currency for the hunting kind
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: of community and culture, you know, and maybe this is
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: a generalization in some senses is the grip and grand
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: photo that we all know deters non hunters, and like
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Brad pointed out, really shines the light on one kind
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: of unfortunate moment and the whole experience. Right, Like you
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: wake up a sun right, you go have your hunt.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Most times you don't even kill anything, But there's all
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: the moments that make these adventures epic and make these
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: days spent outside transformative, right, And it's it's the sunrise
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: at the time, spent with friends and family, It's the
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: experiences to pursuit, you know. It's all of these things,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the numerable you know, qualities that are attached to hunting
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: that we all love and and seek out. But it's
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: that one that one image which the hunting industry has
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: propagated has has has confirmed that photo is worth something too,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: because we post it, we publish it, we celebrate it.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: It's the thumbnail on the video, it's the cover of
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: the magazine. And that doesn't do hunters any good because
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: there are more non hunters than hunters. And if you
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: just think about the pie and you're a little slice
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of the hunting community, the rest of that pie has
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: a voice that's equal to yours in terms of public land.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: So if your goals hunter is to have your grandkids
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: be able to hunt the units in places that you
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: grew up hunting, then it's in your best interests and
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: your kid's best interest to play ball and to understand
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: that that what we're after is the opportunity to hunt.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: What we're after our healthy ecosystems that support and produce
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: healthy populations of animals. So you can go get that
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: elf to fill your freezer, bucked to put on your wall,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you're after. But it's a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: shared resource that, by virtue of being an American, belongs
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: to everybody. So it's just this reality that there needs
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: to be an intention to appreciate the fact that we
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: all have an equal stake in this, that public land
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: needs advocates rather more than ever, because of politics, because
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of big business, because of development and resourcing to all
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: these threats to public land. So we need allies. You know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: we're not doing ourselves any favors by by isolating ourselves
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: and all going on to the same island. And I
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: think you know with that, I draw a parallel to
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: the outdoor industry, which is a place that I've spent
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of time in my career and you know,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: being an outdoor recreator um you know, identify with and
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and same with, the same with you know folks. And
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: on that side of the aisle, their currency is climbing
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the big wall is somebody in the mountain is how
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: fast did you do the pct? How light was your pack?
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: It's not stewardship those places of they're experiencing, whether it's
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: you know, Denali National Park or the North Cascades. I
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: mean these places were set aside because of their ecological
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: integrity as places with with timber, with clean water, with wildlife.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: They weren't set aside for Instagram. They weren't set aside
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: for for overnight backpacking trips. But the outdoor industry has
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: propagated this currency of athletic feet over anything. And just
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: like the hunting industry should should realize that that it's
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: not just the grippic grand photo and that groups like
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Modern Huntsmen and publications like Hours are aiming to move
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: the needle back towards a place of reverence, back towards
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: a place of of of dialogue. You know, the outdoor
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: industry is equally in my opinion, in need of rebranding
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: because what what what they're celebrating the currency that's in
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: that industry is not propagating stewardship by and large. So
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's not just hunting, uh you know problem.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I think the overarching theme and we're just addressing it
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: through this one channel, is to tell everybody, you know, hey,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: these places and these ecosystems need management, they need stewards
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: they need attention being paid to the whole system, not
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: just you know the epic you know, Granite Wall or
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: or the big buck that you know that we have
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: at our knees. Um. So I think it's kind of
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: a it's a it's a nod to this, this, this,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: this deeper, you know, this closer look at at at
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: stewardship in general. Yeah. Uh, it's an interesting it's an
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: interesting position to be in from from the inside. And
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of this comes down to I
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: think number one, like you guys all addressed this a
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: couple realities of the situation. If if you want to
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: continue hunting in the future, right, we don't really control
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: our own fate, and that other people will be the
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: larger majority of people don't hunt and we need to
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: either present ourselves in a way that they'll accept and
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: not vote against our right and privilege to do what
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: we're doing right now, or if we don't do that
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: just pragmatically, if we don't do some of the things
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: you're saying, we might lose that privilege. Um. But but
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of this comes down to storytelling,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: because as you were talking about earlier with the gripping
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Grand picture, yeah, I mean that is that is especially
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: for someone who's just in this like who hunts all
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: the time and this is their life, is what they
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: love to do. A lot of my friends, even myself
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: at one point, never even thought a second about a
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: grip and grand like you were so excited to share,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: you know, show your buddy this picture, and then once
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram came around, then you want to share
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: it there because you know there's so much that went
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: into that photo. Of course that doesn't always conveyed through
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: a photo, but you know that there was all those
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: early mornings and all of that work, all spraying and
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: summer and preparing and hours and hours and hours in
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: the woods, and so much emotion and inks and excitement
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and nervousness and it all came down to this one thing,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: and in that one moment, it all worked out. And
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: now here you are, and you have this huge smile
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: on your face, and you've never been happier because of
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: all these things that led up to this great moment.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: But that many times it isn't communicated through that picture. Um,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: So the question is, though, how do you still how
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: do we still share our excitement and celebrate these special
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: moments in our lives, but do it in a way
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: that doesn't negatively impact the bigger the bigger community. And
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: so I think to all your points already, it's it's
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: how do we communicate better? How do we present photography
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: or video or whatever in a respectful manner? And then
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I think also providing text. You know, a simple thing
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that I've just started doing now is that whenever I
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: do share an image that has, you know, an animal
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: that I've hunted and killed, try to provide some contexts
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: that explained what went into it, or why this matters,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: or why this is a powerful moment, or or what
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: happened with that animal and that meal, And lots of times,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: just a little bit of explanation for a non hunter
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: when they see this and if it's presented in a
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: respectful way, that is enough to help them connect the
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: dots and not have that kind of drastic gut just
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: feeling of Paul Um. But this is where I'm heading
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: with this, when it comes to some of the context
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: or some of the reasoning behind hunting, or a little
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: bit maybe of how we like to UM. I think
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the party line lots of times within the hunting community
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: when someone says, well, why do you hunt? Or you
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be able to hunt. That's a horrible thing. Why
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: would you do that? Many times one of the party
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: lines one of the speaking points as well hunting is conservation.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: You know, by going out there and hunting these animals
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: or whatever, we're paying for all the conservation work, etcetera, etcetera.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: UM And charl I actually heard you address this issue
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: on another podcast in the past, and I think you
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: had some some helpful perspective on this. I'd be curious
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: if you can speak to this a little bit too,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: because this is something I felt a lot as well.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I wonder and I worry if sometimes we as hunters
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: leaned too much on default conservation by saying that, well,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: we bought our license so we're contributing to conservation or
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: we bought a rifle and we got taxed on that,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: so we're conservationists. Um is that enough? I don't think
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: it is. But what are your thoughts, Charles, and what
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: do you think about what the right next step could be.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: How do we better live up to the conservationist mantle
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: if we want to use that as a as a
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: rationale for why we should be able to hunt or
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: why we have worth and value. Yeah, it's a great point.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: It's it's one that that Ben O'Brien who has a
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: hunting collective podcast that I talked about a few weeks
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: ago or months ago now. But you know, it's shame
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: that because you hunt your conservationist the same That is
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: exactly the same as saying because you pay taxes your
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: pro infrastructure and pro bridge improvement and pro median management.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's an involuntary tax that hunters
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: pay when they buy their license or buy ammunition. Um,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: you know, whatever it might be, you put some money
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: into the pot, it's not a voluntary you know, something
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that you seek out as an individual with a with
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: a conscious mindset to say, hey, I'm going to pay
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: extra to do this. Um. You know, it's it's a tax,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: like I said, just like road improvement or whatever. You know,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: you know, your municipal tax. Um. So I think that's
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: kind of a you know, um misleading. I think it's
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: kind of just yet a low hanging fruit that that
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: everybody likes to pluck. I mean, that's the same thing
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: as saying, because you're vegan, you have no impact on
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: the earth. Um. But I would argue there's not There's
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: never been more white tailed deer in America, that's a
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: fact than there are today. And if you eat avocados,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of them are going in northern Mexico where
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: monarch butterflies over winter. So I would argue that eating
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: whitetailed deer and most of the United States is a
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: much better thing to do for the environment than eating avocados.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: But that's another conversation. So, you know, I think one
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: to be a conservationist, like Tyler said, it's a life's work.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: It's it's a it's a pillar that identifies you on
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: the cellular level and also guides the way that you
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: that you carve your signature on their line. Whatever it
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: might be, you know that could be hard pulling to
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: go hunt. That could be biking to go hunt. That
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: could be you know whatever, packing your own making your
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: own ammunition, or buying a used gun. There's all these
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: things that that that adds to your net impact on Earth. Right,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Like the worst thing we ever did to this planet
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: was be born. Right, So population is a huge problem.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: So we just need to mitigate the best we can
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: our net impacts. And I think in a conservationist, there
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: are some, you know, some pretty conspicuous ways to to
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: be a hunting conservationist. And maybe that's getting involved with
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: your local UM Wild Chief Foundation chapter and helping with
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: some um some surveys, or helping with trail maintenance, or
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: just being a mindful, you know, stewardship guided landowner. And
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: maybe that's you know, that can take place in a
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: number of ways. Maybe that's um, you know, managing your forest,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: doing controlled burns, if you have a if you have
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: a farm. There's all of these things that I think
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: are just you know, elements that collectively make you a conservationist.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: I personally don't think that because you buy a you know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: you buy a license, that makes you a conservationist. I mean,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: if you go watch your burger unit coologists or if
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: you go catch a fish or your fish biologists. You know,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I'd argue not. Um. So yeah, And in terms of
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: the storytelling aspect, you know, I was working on it
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: on a shoot down in South Texas a few years ago. Um,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: it was a good friend done masters who's a you know,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: it's a great hunter and certainly conservations in my mind,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and we were working with this with this outfitting group,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: um who did an amazing job of curating those photos.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: You know, they had clients coming out and hunting whitetail,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: you know, down in South Texas, and before anybody took
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: any photo, they made sure that the animal was presentable,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: that they're the blood was cleaned. Literally, these guys carried
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: a little spray bottle in their truck and before anybody
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: take a photo, they cleaned the animal up. If there
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: was anything that was you know, uh, you know, kind
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: of louded in your face, they mitigated it, whether it
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: was putting leaves over the wound or even dirt and
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: just making sure the tongue wasn't hanging out. They even
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: put little a little piece of glass over the eye.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: I mean they took it to like such an extreme level,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: you know, probably more than most to be able to.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: But it just showed like you wouldn't have expected that
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: if you brought somebody from you know, from a suburban
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Portland down there, they would have been shocked and pleasantly surprised.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Because what these hunting guides from this outfitting operation knew
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: and realized is that the second in today's age, the
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: second you published something on your personal account, you're just
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: like a brand. You're just like a magazine. You're putting
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: content out into the world that is is by by nature,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: by default of being published. It's open for you know,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: for commentary, it's open for analysis and critique. And like
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: you brought up mark, you know, in the past, it
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: was this thing where you could take a take a photo,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe you had you know, a film camera
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: or whatever, you just taken on your phone and it
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily going to end up in in the you know,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: out in the world representing you or community and your culture. Um.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: So you know, it's one thing if you take a picture,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: keep on your phone, don't publish it, you know, do
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: whatever you want. But I think the second you put
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: it out there, people need to remember that you're speaking
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: on behalf of your community, you know, whether it's uh,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: you know, you hunting in your backyard or hunting public land.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Like you you're portraying hunting, and by default it's up
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: for you know, people to take a poke at if
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: they if they feel fitting. Um So, I think, yeah,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: the main thing that I would say is, you know,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: take take that picture, if if that if that picture
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: of the animal, and of that moment where you're you know,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: your smile so big it hurts, you know, and it's
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: this really like this culmination of so many days and
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: moments and things coming together. Do that. But like you
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: were saying, Mark, you know, there's there's room for context,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: that's you can write something about it. There's there's room
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: to you know, pay reverence to the animal. You know,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be the big it's buck. It
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: could be just an animal that goes in your freezer.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: And so a lot of people that's a big deal.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Um So, I think just realizing that the second it
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: goes out there, you have this this opportunity to tell
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: a story as opposed to just putting something out there
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: that the blank canvas or people to write whatever they want. Yeah,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: and I think to to what your point was there,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I think lots of times what we need to realize
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: is that what we put out into the world that
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: then many times people if that's the one, you know,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: opportunity to see this image or to see something related
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: to hunting or this, is there one contact point, all
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, that one thing might represent their entire
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: opinion or perspective on what hunting is or who hunters are.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: And that's something that I think, um, I think ties
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: into the next tangent I kind of want to take
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: us down, which is how recently, in particular, with some
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: media frenzies, things have happened with hunting in Africa have
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: impacted hunting in North America. So something that shows up
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: on CNN that happened on a different continent all of
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: a sudden is causing a huge frenzy here in America
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and causing people to ask why we're doing something here
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: in Michigan or something how that might relate to something
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: they saw on TV elsewhere. And I know, Tyler, you've
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: got a lot of experience in this, obviously spending time
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: in Africa. UM So I'm curious on two things. I'm
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: kind of curious what your thoughts are on how what's
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: happening in Africa may or may not impact America. And
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: then secondly the CNN Documentary Trophy. I don't know if
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: you guys saw this, but I watched this film and
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: when I while I was watching that, I was thinking
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: about what I just said. I was thinking, Wow, how
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: will someone watching this then translate that back to our
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: context here in North America. If you saw that film,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: can you speak to what your thoughts on that was
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: and how some of the representations of hunting there um
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: could impact what's going on? And then I mean the
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Cecil debacle, all the different things going on over there, um,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: what are your thoughts and all that. So yeah, well,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: thankfully I've answered these questions in my head and in
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: my personal life many times. Um. So, my first job
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: I went to USC. I went to University of Southern
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: California study photography and film, and my first job out
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: of college was in Tanzania. I moved straight to the
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: bush and filmed hunting Safaris for five months and it
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: was a, you know, a completely transformative experience. And when
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I came home, the kind of flak that I was
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: we got even from friends and family in Texas of
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: all states about what I was doing. Really showed me
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: how much of a disconnect there was between what people
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: view hunting in Africa to be and what the actual
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: situation is. And so my main story in Modern Husband
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: the first issue was called Africa Overture, and it's literally
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: my effort to kind of communicate a lot of the
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: topics of conversation I've had to have over the years
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: about how it actually works in Africa. And it's different
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: for every country, and you know, but for the most part,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: the you know, as Charles says, the best examples or
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: what I focused on with that, and I try to
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: talk about the in between. Right, they're supposed to be.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: You know, there's government mandated game reserves that are least
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: to safari companies and it's there in their best interest
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: to effectively manage those areas with conservation efforts, and the
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: government is there. They do censuses um and based on
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: those sentences, they issue a certain number of permits for
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: whatever species that's supposed to adhere to a specific you know,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: wildlife management percentage. Well there's a gradient there of how
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: successful or you know, accurate those surveys are there's a
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: you know, a gradient of people's ethics of should they
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: shoot that full quota or is that the government saying, well,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: we just want more money, so we're going to say
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: there's more almost here than there actually are. So but
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: the point is that there are some incredible conservation over there,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: and some of the most successful conservation in Africa, most
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: of in fact, is done by hunting operations, and um,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: you know, I actually worked for the gentleman who bought
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: the black rhino tag a couple of years ago at
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: the Dallas Safari Club. And the Shabbian government issues a
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: rhino tag of per sale every year because there's usually
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: some aggressive bull or sterile bull that's killed other young males.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: And they auctioned this thing off at the Dalla Safari
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Club and they literally had a million dollars that they
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: were going to pay for this tag, which was gonna
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: go on into the rhino conservation rhino con conservancy there
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: and in Namibia, and the animal rights groups got wind
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: of it and they sent in death threats enough to
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: where the FBI had to show up and said that
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: anyone who bids on this rhino hunt we're going to kill.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: And so everyone got scared off except for Corey Nolton,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: who have They eventually did to see an end comentary
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: on and so when the bidding opened, he bid three
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: dollars and no one else bid because they were scared
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: that they were going to get their life's ruined by
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: animal rights you know, protagonists or antagonists. And so rather
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: than the bid going the way of what it was
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: supposed to and a million dollars go to rhino conservation,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: those animal rights groups literally blocked three quarters of a
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: million dollars from going to rhino conservation. And that's just
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: purely out of ignorance and lack of understanding of the
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: way the situation is. And you know, the whole Cecil situation,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: that's that's a a complicated issue. To be fair, that
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: guy was sold a lion license that was not on license,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: so it was a little bit of an ethics issue
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: with the game scout in in in that country. Um,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: there's some lessons there. I mean, I think that anyone
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: in their right mind who was going on a lion
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: hunt who saw radio collared lion might think twice about
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: if that's a good idea from a publicity standpoint to
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: do something like that, and hunting in itself a very
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: controversial issue. Um that you know, has a, like I said,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: a spectrum of of you know, is this a good
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: or bad thing? And it just depends on the area.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: But the point is that people in the West have
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: developed a very strong emotional attachment to animals that in
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: most cases they've never seen. And often the public opinion
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: of these topics is swayed by whoever yells the loudest,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: and in most cases, animal rights and anti hunting groups
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: are the ones that yell the loudest, or have the
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: most money, or unfortunately, take some of these bloody trophy
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: photos that we all put online and turn those into
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: memes that then then they then put millions of dollars
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: behind to market and spread across the internet. So the
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: opinion has been swayed in a lot of cases by misinformation.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: And so at the very least, we are trying to
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: showcase the facts and the realities and the goods and
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: the bads in between. And you know, we want to
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: focus on the good, but you see the good in
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: context of the bad, and that there are people who
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: aren't out to conserve, they about to make money. And
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: you know, in a real in a reality as you
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: applying to the United States. Because of the backlash that
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: the administration received. Because of the backlash the administration received
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: about you know, some of these Africa hunts, it has
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: created a ban in the United States of importation of
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: elephant and lion um trophies, harvests just skins or touched
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. And so the result of that
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: is that the African governments have now are are now
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: currently losing hundreds of millions of dollars every year that
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: it would be directly uh, you know, applied to conservation.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: And so a lot of these hunting operations in remote
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: areas have shut down and they've had to give their
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: areas back to the government, which basically means there are
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: now massive game reserves, tens of millions of acres that
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: are no longer being effectively anti you know, anti poaching
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: patrols are not in they're not being managed anymore, and
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: so poachers are moving in, you know, ivory poachers, meet
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: poach trs, tree poachers. Which is an often overlooked problem
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: in Africa is habitat loss. So people who cut down
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: trees or move their cattles and to move their cattle
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: into areas that they're not supposed to graze in as
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: the habitat that these animals, you know, African wildlife need
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: to survive, and with population expansion, habitat destruction and the
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: increasing conflict of all three of them is created a
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: major problem. And unfortunately, as legislation goes in the United States,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: so conservation goes in Africa. So it's been a very
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: bad thing. And then beyond that, just the word hunter
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: right is being painted as a negative thing, which is
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: part of the reason we chose the term huntsman instead
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: of hunter, because we wanted to get away from the
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: current connotation of the word hunter. And that's not meant
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: to be a gender exclusion for people who might wonder that.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: It's more of a poetic word that has a gender
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: in the same way that Spanish and its Italian words
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: have gender. So it's meant to be sort of um,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: a little more of a poetic representation of what the
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: tradition is supposed to be um And we're hoping that
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: by that we can start to show people that, Okay,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: what you see on the news is not what we're
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: talking about. We're talking about something different. And also what
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: you see on the news isn't quite accurate. This is
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: the deal, and we're trying to be presented presenters of
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: those facts and perspectives so that hopefully people start to,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: you know, use a little bit more logic and rationale. Yeah,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: I think I think the African example, what happened there
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: around a few of these incidents and how that translated
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: to the media frenzy in America and then law changes,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I think that is a great example. And then I
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: think also what recently happened in British Columbia with the
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: banning of grizzly bear hunting. Both of these things were
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: kind of public opinion um votes, or or just catering
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: to an uproar of opinion around something that sometimes isn't
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: fully understood, or there's misinformation around there, or one bad
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: apple painted the whole thing um. But I think there
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: are examples that we should look to as to why
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: this whole idea of representing ourselves positively matters. I know
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: probably some people listening, and I've talked about this so much,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: they might think that I'm just like appear on stage
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: preaching all the time about this and it might maybe
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: gets tiring. And I apologize if that's the case. But
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: I think that we are just seeing now real life
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: impacts that are coming to fruition when we're not careful
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: about how the public perceives what we're doing. Because if
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: we represent things in the wrong way now things are happening.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Privileges and rights are being taken away, laws are being changed,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: and um, you know that that's just just something that
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: while it's not convenient sometimes it's a pain, but to
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: have to think about all these different things, it simply
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: is the reality that we live in. And I think
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: being mindful in these ways, um is probably our best
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: step moving forward if we want to continue to be
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: able to live this lifestyle. Now to what you just mentioned, Tyler,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: this idea of of the modern huntsmen or modern hunter,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: or however people want to take this, what is is
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: your guys, vision of what that person is. What's your
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: vision of the future hunter, of the of the modern
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: future hunter. What does this person and this lifestyle look
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: like going forward? If we want to keep this thing
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: going forward. Sure, I think that this is something that
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: I definitely want Charles to weigh in in on as well,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: because you know, in the same way that you know,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: when we've been talking to brands or sponsors and your
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: partners for ongoing issues or web stories, people say, what's
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: your demographic right, And the answer to that question is
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: not a very succinct pinpointed, Okay, this is the exact
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: type of person we're looking for. This is the exact
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: type of person we're trying to represent. We're more so
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: representing a mindset and a value system and an approach
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: to what we've is the best case of ethical hunting
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: and conservation and stewardship. And so whether that's a ten
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: year old, you know kid down in Alabama, or that's
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: a twenty four year olds in college graduate from California,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: where that's a sixty five year old guy in in
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Minnesota who feels like he's never been able to truly
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: express what how he feels and he feels like his
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: voice gets drowned out with the hunting industry. So I
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: think that realistically, it's more of someone who um kind
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: of anything that we've said up to this point, if
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: it resonates with you, that's who we think. You know,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: we're we're trying to reach here, and we're trying to
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: become a resource and a gathering point for like minded
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: creatives hunters and and and conservation to show that and
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: hopefully carve out a larger piece of the pie for
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: people who think this way, because we feel that they're
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: not accurately being represented in you know, mainstream publications and
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: and things like that. And and maybe through a trickle
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: down effect that the hunting industry or even the mainstream
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: media will see what we're doing and say, hey, you
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: know what, that's that's honorable and that's virtuous, and we
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: think that that deserves um for more people to know
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: about it, or more people should order the magazine, or
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: maybe I'll submit a story even if they're not a hunter.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: And so you know, moving forward, we're gonna be including
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: stories from non hunters, non hunting perspectives, and of course
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: the lens there is. It needs to be constructive. You
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: know that that we're two as Charles said, bridge build
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: bridges and bridge the gaps and hopefully reduce conflict. But
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: I think that when it comes down to it, we're
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: hoping to sort of recruit people and maybe recruits not
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: the right word to inspire or enable people who are
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: conservation minded in the sense of, you know, trying to
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: be act an active participant in the you know, in
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: the management the effective management of landscape or the preservation
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: of our natural resources and protection of habitats and UH
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: and having a larger role in that UM and and
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: just being respectful you know, ethical hunters. Do you add anything, Charles, Yeah,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: I mean I think just the kind of backpedal here
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: for a can the the topic of Africa and the
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: topic of special and UH and trophy the film and
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: how that might um inspire influence some of the ways
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: that hunting is perceived or public plants are managed share
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: in the US. You know, one thing I'd add that
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I think kind of devetails into the into your next
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: question about the kind of modern huntsman. Who that person is?
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: You know, I always like to bring this up, and
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: we talk about Africa and town and I are constantly
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: talking about Africa because it's not something I know a
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: lot about. But what I do know is that Africa
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: is complex, that each country in Africa has a different
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: suite of rules, of regulations, of successes and failures, of
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: the political climates, of economic climates. There are all these
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: things that are affecting the way wildlife and lands and
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: ecosystems are managed. Even down to the regional scale, Like
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: each you look at one country, there's going to be
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: areas of success in areas of failure within that country.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: So I think the really unfortunate, uh kind of phenomena
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: that seems to be quite pervasive in the world in
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: America as well, is that we are spoon fed these
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: gross over generalizations, many of which are negative. You know,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: like read the front page of whatever your local newspaper
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: is and most of the stories are negative. Most of them, um,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: you know, are picking something that triggers a response. You know,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: they want to feed you the seven word byline that
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: makes your heart race or makes you want to cry,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: or whatever makes you scared. I mean, that's the currency
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: of media, and for hunting, it's been destructive, you know,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Like these films are made to piss people off. These
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: films are made to evoke a response, not generally to say,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: you know, the problems a little bit or the situation,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: the landscape a little bit more complicated than we than
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: we really understand. And this is the best that we
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: understand about this one aspect of this broader narrative. And
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: I think that is what we are also trying to
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: point out is that these stories. Hunting is complicated. Wolves
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: exist in North America, but the reality of wolves is
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: different in BC compared to Idaho. You know, like wolves.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: There are some wolves in California, but there their whole situation,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: the political climate associated with them, their ecological impact is
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: very different than wolves and Yellowstone. And wolves and Yellowstone
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: are incredibly different than wolves twenty miles outside of Yellowstone.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: So we are we society The public is constantly reminded
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: falsely that because we understand what happened to wolves and Yellowstone,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: we understand wolves in general. And that is really unfortunate
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: because the world is complicated. Hunting is complex. There are
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: hunters that are amazing people that we at modern huntsmen
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: will elevate and lift up and celebrate and shina light on.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: But there are also people who we won't because they
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: have a lot of room, you know, to improve, just
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: like politicians, just like your local banker, just like a
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: used car salesman. You know, like any sect of society
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: has people who are stellar humans and people who you know,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: have some room to improve. And and we're all, you know,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: we all faults in all places to improve. Nobody's perfect.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: But to say all hunters are good or all hunters
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: are bad is misleading. To say all politicians are good
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: or bad is misleading. And to say Africa is just one, um,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: you know, homogeneous place, or hunting in North America is
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: just one homogeneous uh kind of landscape bus misleading. And
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: I think that's something that we should continue to inject
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: into these conversations because somebody will ask Tyler or me
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: or whoever about hunting in Africa, and they probably think
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: they have their head pretty well wrapped around the question,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: you know, trophy hunting is bad. Well, like Tyler said,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: there's examples where trophy huntings actually pretty benign and good.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: But there's also examples of troviy hunting that's probably pretty
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: you know, she could he could use some improvement, or
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: is maybe not as sensitive whereas actually maybe not you know,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: ecologically beneficial. Um. And that's the kind of minutia that
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: I think that we want to point out. And and
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: while pointing that out, say like, here are examples of
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: this in a wonderful light that we can all draw
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: inspiration from and that we hope the next generation of
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: hunters embodies. And I think that, in my opinion, is
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: the modern huntsman. It's somebody who realizes that if you
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: want to harvest a big elk, there needs to be
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: a healthy watershed with healthy soil and healthy the fire
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: regime and a healthy invertebrate community. And these animals that
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: we pursue are are directly a reflection of healthy ecosystems.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: So if you're big on you know, elk, for example,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: you know your best friends should be the guy who's
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: studying the aspen in the Red Paring corridor. And we
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: need to realize that all of these things are connected
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: and that there's a lot of things we don't know.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I love about ecology and science
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: is that science exists under the understanding that we don't
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: know everything, and that science is always improving, and that
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: when we say something in the scientific world, we say
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: it with an understanding, but there is a a great
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: possibility that we're wrong or that we don't know everything.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: And I think with hunting and modern huntsmen, we want
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: to point out these complexities and point out rooms for growth.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: And also, you know, we're not in the business of
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: saying like every person is the best that there ever
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: could be in the hunting world, like We're here to
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: celebrate the people that we should all look up to. UM.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: And I think that should go with you know, any
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: of the topics, whether like I said, it's Africa or
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: trophy hunting or whatever. There's there's great examples and there's
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: examples that aren't so great, um, And there's always improvement
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: to be made. Yeah, I think I think to add
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: on to that. I'm sorry, Mark, I was just gonna
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: add on real quick. I think to add on to
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: that too. This is kind of the beauty of storytelling,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: right is it's not a presentation of what's right versus
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: what's wrong, or here's how to live better or the
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: top ten ways to improve your game or whatever. It's
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: a presentation of something that goes far beyond what is fact,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: and it goes into the soul level of what you
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: define truth to be. And so, you know, we are
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: intentioned through everything we do, whether it be through media,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: whether it be through conversations, whether it be through um.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: You know, being being a part of of a topic
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: of interest is simply to present a narrative that may
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: or may not have been heard before, may or may
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: not have been presented before, and that in doing so,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: we give the listener or the viewer or the reader
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: the ability to interpret that in their own frame of reference,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, the thing that's
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: most polarizing is somebody who believes that they are the
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: supreme truth and they're presenting their supreme truth as fact.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: And we know that, you know, we can do without
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: much of the polarizing media outlets in America and go
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: towards something that's less sensationalized and more normalized. And when
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: you start to normalize a conversation, allow people to make
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: their own decisions and to see facts and figures, but
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: also see somebody's heart and soul behind it. It gives
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: you the opportunity to actually feel something and be convicted
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: by it, as opposed to having to feel like you
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: know you are on the outside if you don't participate
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: in this, or you're wrong if you don't, or you're
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: right if you don't. But instead and give them a
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: reason to feel and to believe in something. Yeah, I'm
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: glad you brought that up to I think I think
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: that is so important to look at this um, look
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: at a lot of these issues we've been talking about,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: and not in a polarizing kind of way, but in uh,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: and let's let's have a dialogue kind of way. Let's
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: be inclusive, let's better understand each other, let's look at
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: the complexities and the nuance here. Um and and to
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: your earlier points, so much of what's going on in
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: the larger world could um maybe improved a little bit
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: if we just all got a little bit better at
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: doing that. Um. But another thing, I want to to
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: make sure he is known. And I might be speaking
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: for you guys here a little bit, but I think
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: it's important to note that, you know, even if you
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: do enjoy you know, the traditional hunting media and hunting
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: TV shows, and you like the hunting magazines, and you know,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: I watch in and read and participate in a lot
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: of that stuff myself too, there's nothing wrong with enjoying
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: some of that stuff but then also agreeing with some
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: of the ideas that are being presented by you guys
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: and modern huntsmen. I don't think it's an either or.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: I think it's uh. I think it's hey, here's some
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: different things we can take in this aspect. Here's some
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: things to think about on that side of things. I think,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: you know, we're all part of this community. I think
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: what you guys are doing a really nice job of
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: is though, is is shining a light on certain aspects
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: of things and saying, hey, let's have a conversation around this.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Is this the best way to present things? Is there
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: are there some different ways that we can talk about this, UM,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: And I think that is a powerful thing. And I
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: would want to make sure that someone who you know,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to be turned off by these
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: ideas because they feel like they don't fit into this
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: little narrow box. UM. Even if you come from southern
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Michigan and love watching your white tail freaks devid, that's okay,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that. UM. You can also you know,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: be interested and intrigued and curious about, you know, learning
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: about some of these different ways of looking at hunting
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: or different ways to talk about hunting or UM. I
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: think we share a lot of the same common core
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: beliefs and virtues. We appreciate many of the same things. UM.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: I think it just comes down to how we then
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: communicate those things and and sometimes just take a second
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: to think about these things. And what I like about
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: what you guys are doing is the fact that you're
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: giving you're putting this, um, this platform out there, that
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: that presents an opportunity to see some different ways of
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: thinking through these things that I think is valuable. Um.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: So that's that's a good thing, I think for the
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: for the future of hunting, because if we're all just
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: talking the same language all all the time and we're
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: stuck on that echo chamber, we never have that room
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: or that incentive to grow or evolve. And I think, um,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: as far as I see it, we're gonna have to
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: continue to evolve if we want to keep wildlife and
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: wild places and hunting a part of the future in
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: this this country, this world. Right. Yeah. Absolutely, And I
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: think to to your point of you know, I don't
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, because you know, in
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: no way are we saying that, you know, other media
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: or magazines are irrelevant. It's more of that we've felt
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: that people that aren't being represented in those shows or
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: in those magazines that, um, we're trying to give a voice.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: And in a lot of situations, um, you know, with
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: the story, we're trying to focus it more on rather
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: than the the end result, right of the trophy or
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: the buck or whatever, more about the individual experience along
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: the way, which is what you mentioned in terms of
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: context and in the scenario and how much work went
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: into that, um and and where you know, the main
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: street you know, the other magazines, and those are hyper
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: focused on on a specific demographic, right, people who are
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: more interested in ballistics or you know, aero performance or um,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: you know, white tail freaks or whatever that may be.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: And that's that media is intended for those types of
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: people who are very interested in that specific type of information.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: Our product is much more focused on an outward facing message, right.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: We are trying to help bridge the gap between you know,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: the two communities. And you know, not everyone's gonna want
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: to have difficult conversations. And and you know, there may
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: be some people who hear what we're saying they're like, oh,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: that's cool, you know, good luck with that. Um. You know,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: I I'm not necessarily gonna participate, but I respect what
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: you're doing kind of thing. And that's that's fine. You know,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: we're just trying to, you know, make make access to
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: the hunting world at least a little easier for a
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: non hunter, and we're just trying to do it in
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: a different tone. That's a little more approachable. Um, that
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: isn't so uh specific. I mean, for instance, the Journal
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: of Mountain Hunting. They produce an amazing magazine, but it's
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: so specific because it's like very very hardcore training technical
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: mountain hunting that I wish I could do, but I'm
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: nowhere near the shape to be able to do something
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: like that. And that's aspirational for me, but that may
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: not be necessarily relevant for me reading I may not
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: understand it or I may not get it because that
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: just doesn't necessarily suit my lifestyle at this moment. And
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: and so I think that you know, it's important to
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: make that distinction that there's um, it's all part of
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: the same mission here. We're all moving in the same direction.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: We're just trying to take a little a little different
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: of a tone in ours. Yeah, So speaking of the
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: fact that your your project here is it's a little
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: more outward facing, it's a little bit more about helping
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: present hunting to two new people in a way that's
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: a little bit more approachable for many for many folks.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: So I'm curious than given that UM lens that you
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: guys have been looking at hunting through and through probably
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of the conversations you've had with people that
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: have been curious about hunting maybe but having delved into
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: it yet. I'm curious if you can give us back
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: to traditional media. Can you give us a how to,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: a quick like one, two, three, of something that we
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: hunters can be thinking about, maybe a couple different ways
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: we can do a better job of connecting with new
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: hunters or communicating about what we're doing to new hunters. Um,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: if we want to have some of these difficult conversations,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: or if we want to bring someone in the fold,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: do you guys have a couple pieces of advice based
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: on your experience that we could take. Yeah, I've got
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: a quick one, and then I'll let Charles Treentman because
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he's got different ones, which is great because
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: we have a variety of perspective. Um. You know. For me,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: I think that what's been really well received in context
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: of um of non hunters and even people like vegans
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: who are against it for what they perceived to be
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: moral reasons against a big beef industry or or a
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: poultry industry. And that's the context of food, right, hunting
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: for food or eating what you kill. And so I
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: think that that's something that a lot of us who
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: do that take for granted and and how people uh
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: don't even consider that that's a possibility for them, that
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: you can go out and harvest your own food. And
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: so I think that that's something we're really trying to
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: focus on because, um, you know, even even you know shows,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: cooking shows or or you know, things like Chef's Table,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: people accept the context of hunting when it's viewed through
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: the lens of cuisine. And so that's something thing that
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: I you know, I've made sure that I've communicated in
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: some of my conversations possibly in a difficult topics or
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: things like that, is is that connection to food right?
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: And I think that, um, you know, beyond that, it's
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: a lot of times people get asked why do you hunt?
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: And that's a hard question to answer, but I think
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: that that's an important question to ask yourself and whether
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: or not you need to justify yourself to somebody. I
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily know if you need to, but I think
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: that it's important to look inward and really kind of
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: ask ourselves why we do that. Why is it important?
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: Is it an instinct? Well, is that the only reason
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: we do it? Surely it's more than that. And so
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: we're trying. We're attempting to be able to communicate a
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: variety of those reasons why people hunt, and ideally we're
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: focusing on the ones that we feel to be are
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: a little more exemplary or you know, adhering to virtues
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: to that. You know, words and and images are the
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: things that stick with people, must you know what. We
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: know this to be intrinsically true. And I think that
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: we've almost bastardized Instagram, uh in a sense of or
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: we've we've bastardized imagery because of Instagram and because of
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: photo sharing technology that we've almost I think I think
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Charles put it so in such a good light, um,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: and I want to frame it differently that you know, Instagram,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: every time you put something out on social media, you're
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: casting a vote for something. Not only not only are you,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: um presenting a topic that people can have commentary on,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: but you're also casting a vote. And because of the
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: normalization of being able to just you know, cast your
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: vote through imagery and share that with the world, and
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: now you have a public opinion towards something and people
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: have access to that, it means a lot and I
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: think that we discount it severely, you know, because it's
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: it's our it's our channel, it's our page. We should
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: be able to do whatever you want. And that's true,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: it's absolutely correct. But you now have given access to
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: people to be able to content and also in conversation
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: or um in in sharing you know, maybe an experience
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: that you had hunting on social media through the written
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: word or spoken word, it matters. You know, people are
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: listening to that all the time. And so that's a
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: huge point for me that that as coming from somebody
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: who was formerly not in this space, felt excluded in
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: intimidated by this industry. One of my points of contention
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: was I was afraid to say to people that I
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: was a non hunter. I was afraid to talk to
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: hunters and say that I wasn't a hunter because I
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: felt like I'd be pushed out of the club. And
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: to be able to have a tone of voice that
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: is more inviting, that speaks to um. You know, this
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: is not us versus you, This is not you can't
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: come into our club, but instead, this is something that
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: we want you to be a part of. I want
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: to share this experience with you, whether it's I want
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: to take you in the field, or whether it's I
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: want to show you some pictures of my last time
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: I'm so proud of, you know, x YZ, or whatever
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: animal harvested, or whether it's um you know, I want
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: to show you high prepared this this dish. That's something
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: that we have the opportunity to not just share, but
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: get people excited and feel included about. So I think
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: that's one thing that ultimately, you know, in a mass
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: media setting, all of us collectively are the voice of hunting.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: I don't think we need to take that lightly. Modern
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: huntsman is not going to change the industry, you know,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Barretta and Pilson and Sitka and brands and we are
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: not going to change the industry. It's the people, right,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: It's all of us collectively. We're the ones who do this.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: And so if we can have a much more sensitive
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: and thoughtful tone of voice and not change how we
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: do things or the approach of of the actual hunt,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: but how we communicated, I think that's the ultimate key
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: to being able to uh convicted and persuade that perception
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: away from what the majority of non hunters perceived it
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: to be now into what the majority of hunters actually
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: feel it to be Ye, would you anything, Charles, Yeah,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: I think you know two things that come to mind,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: um when they think about qualities of of hunters and
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: that you know that I think I and by you know,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: through the collective lens, we think the next generation to
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: benefit from. And I think about people like my friend
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: Adam Floss, who's a celebrated bow hunter, one of my
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: best friends. Just a brilliant creative as well. But you know,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: go go walk around the mountains with somebody like him,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: and you are brought into this world where he's reading
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: the wind and looking at tracks and reading this marketings
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: on the trees, and just he is painting, telling you
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: this picture of an ecosystem through a hunt your's eyes,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: somebody who's spent decades, you know, really studying the environment.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: And for everybody out there's a hunter. You know, when
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: you succeed and harvest something, when it goes from hunting
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: to harvesting, that that that bridge, that portal that you
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: go through, that hinges upon your ability to read the woods,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: to be a woodsman or you know, be a naturalist,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: or to be be fluent in your backyard, or the
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: rhythms of the places you hunt, and that I think
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: is something that's really exciting and something that's that's often overlooked.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: You know, when you think about teaching your kid to hunt,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: or if you have kids, you take your kids hunting,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: you're telling them about all the things that might predispose
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: them to a successful hunt. And those are the things
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: that I'm sure you look in their eyes and you
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: get so excited about seeing them loving the creek in
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: the forest and you know, you know, making an owl
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: call to stir up a turkey. You know, there's all
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: these things that are part of hunting that i are
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: really beautiful and amazing inspiring, and that makes you a
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: good hunter, but also make you a steward and make
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: you somebody who's an advocate and somebody who who will
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: speak up for those places, those wild ecosystems that don't
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: have a voice and need them now more than ever,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: so I think, you know, and and that goes into food.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at, uh, you know, amount of
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: an animal I harvested a few years ago, and some
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: of my favorite memories of that hunt have been the
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: barbecues I've had, Like the other day, I hadn't we
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: just my fiance and moved into a new place, and
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: we have friends over and we ate some of the
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: elk that we harvested, and and that barbecue was so
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: fun being able to share food. But you worked your
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: butt off for through snowstorms and through you know, all
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: these crazy events and and you know near opportunities, and
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: then you get to sit down with your friends and
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: family and share a meal, and with that meal comes
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: all this reverence and comes all this positive energy and excitement.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, those are the things that get us fired up, right,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: Like the photo of the animal will always be something
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: to remember, but there's all the experiences that radiate and
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: orbit from that that really make us addicted and passionate
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: about what we're doing. And I think that's such a
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: beautiful element that I know, at modern huntsman, we want
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: to celebrate and like Howler said, in terms of pr
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: and storytelling, cuisine is a wonderful vehicle to do that.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: And it's also something that everybody has in common. Everybody's
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: got to eat, and everybody loves knowing a little bit
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: about their food, and hunting gives us a great opportunity
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: to talk about that. Yeah, something you said a couple
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: of times there. Charles brings me to another question that
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: I that I often have been asking people, and it
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: comes it kind of fits in very nicely with with
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of what we've been talking about, that being
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: the importance of our words. And I'm curious. You mentioned
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: a couple of times that you harvested an animal, and
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm really interested in people's perspective on this word,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: using the word that they harvest an animal or they
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: killed an animal. There's there's some people that say that
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: when you say the word kill, you killed an animal.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: That's too aggressive, that's too harsh, that's going to turn
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: people off, that's going to scare people away. Um, And
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: so they say harvest. And then there's other people that
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: say kill because no, that's the truth of what's happening,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: that is the reality of what's happening here. I'm going
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: to honor the truth and honor the animal by saying that.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, they feel that harvest. Then by
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: saying harvest, it's like you are framing wildlife as a
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: crop that you're just growing and taking, and that's disrespectful.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: So those are these two different perspectives on those two
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: words that I often hear, and I don't know where
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: I stand on it, but I'm really curious to hear
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: different people's opinions on it. I'm your Charles. Is this
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: something you've you've thought about and you actively choose to
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: use the word harvest for one of these reasons or
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: something else or what are your thoughts on that? Yeah? Totally,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: I mean I think about it is like the same
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: analogous too. You can be driving and you can be speeding,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: but to speed you have to drive, right, So to kill,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: you can just kill something. It doesn't have to mean
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: you're harvesting it. But harvesting implies that there's that second step,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: there's that something, there's that amendment to the initial function
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: of killing or in the in the analogy of driving, right,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: like that's the first entry point. And you know you
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: might be driving one day and run over a rabbit.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: You're not harvesting that rabbit, just killed the rabbit. Harvesting
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: a driver and incentives to do what you're doing. And
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: I think harvest also, I think looks the reverence and
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: appreciation and understanding for that process. People talk about the
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: second hunt. You know, you go bow hunting, you got
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: to find the animal and then there's the tremendous aout
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: of work that comes with packing it out, you know,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: especially if you're hunting up in the mountains, like that's
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: that's a huge part of the adventure. And you know,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: thinking about harvesting food, I mean, I grew up with
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: vegetable gardens. For everyone out there, thing he's ever tried
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: to grow strawberries. Like when you finally get your second
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: year strawberry plants coming back in and you have sixty strawberries,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: each one means so much because you put all that
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: effort into getting that little strawberry, but the slugs didn't
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: get and you know, weren't picked off by a bird,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: and there's just that that extra bit of energy attached
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: to it. And I think harvesting embodies all those extra adjectives,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: those extra extra elements that come from yes, the animal died,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: but it's being harvested because or for me at least,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm pursuing these animals to eat and to
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: share with signs and family. And I think there's a
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: distinction there, right, Like some people kill things and telling
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: little harvest things, and I think harvest um for me
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: is the right word. That's a that's an interesting perspective
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: and and one I hadn't thought about in that way.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: And and that that harvest to you connotates not just
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: the act of the kill killing, but it's also then
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: the intention behind and how you're going to use it
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: to eat, et cetera. That that's an interesting perspective on it.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: Tyler or Brad, Would you guys carried away in on
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: that at all? Yeah? I think it's also a matter
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: of context, right, you know, if we're all in a
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: room full of hunters and you're not just worried about
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: what people are thinking of what you're saying, you know,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: you could in a casual conversation you may say you
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: killed it. But in in you know, the venture we're in,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: which is trying to be diplomats of what we feel
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: to be ethical hunting, which trying to do what we
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: can to make sure that we minimize, you know, conflict.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: And I think that you're right the term killing, even
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: though yes, that's what it is, um is one of
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: those things where people might take that the wrong way
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: or or it might it might offend them. And you know,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: then comes the Agel question, do you need to worry
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: about what other people think, and it goes back to
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: what we discussed earlier that in certain cases, Yeah, so
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: you know, do you need to watch what you say
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: all the time. I would advise it. It's not necessarily,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: you know, going to be a game changer. But I
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: think that what Charles is referring to is more of
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: a matter of respect. And if you're if you're saying
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: it out of habit or you're saying it out of like,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: oh well I've done it so many times so it
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: doesn't really mean anything anymore, then that's one thing. But
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: using a different word or or if you say the
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: word kill, you know, and there's a sense of remorse,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: that's a different thing. But I think if if it's
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: more just like going through the motions and like, you know,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: I I killed four deer because I killed four every day,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: four deer every year, and it's not really exciting to
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: me anymore, then I kind of that's where I would
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: kind of see a problem in that. Um, you know,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: just de sense it desiation um. And so yeah, I
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: don't know, I mean I use it in different contexts
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: or you know, you could say reap, you know, so uh,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: either in ridge reaper, I mean, people use that term
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: as well. So I don't know. I think it's more
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: of just the matter the intention of you saying it
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: in the audience. You're you know, saying it too. And
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: there's a certain luxury that most industries can afford, you know,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: camping or hiking, biking, a lot of the outdoors culture
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: there doesn't have to be as much sensitivity because the
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: stakes are lower, right, you don't you don't have the
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: same effect. Um, while you do have enough on the surroundings,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: you don't have as much effect when you are camping,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: high biking, Um, when you are taking the live of
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: an animal. We we don't live in the same luxury
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: of being able to be as loose with our words.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: So you know, to both Tyler and Charles point, it's
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: it's a matter of what is the terminology in the
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: right context that's going to allude that there is a
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: point of respect that you have when you're around with
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: your buddies. Like Tyler said, absolutely, man, use the lingo
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: that makes the most sense, and that's gonna bring you
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: closer to your community. Um, because you all know and
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: you all get it. But when people don't get it
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: or there's some contention there it's worth considering to be
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: able to, you know, watch what you say, understand who's listening,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: and ultimately that there is an impact that you're leaving
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: behind with every word that you say. So, whatever the
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: word may be that you choose to say, I hope
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: that it would be something that people understand what you're implying,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: not just what you're saying. Yeah, I think this comes
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: down to think what all three of you mentioned kind
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: of I think relates to maybe what the moral of
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: this entire podcast is, the moral of this story. I
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: feel like it's just being mindful, being thoughtful about what
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: we're doing, how we're doing it, how we're communicating about it. Um,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: and the nuance there and UM, I think you guys
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: all have really interesting points and perspectives on that one
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: example there, that word there, to your point, Bread, it's
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: a heavy word. It's a heavy idea. What we're doing here,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: the stakes here are not trivial in any in any way.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: This isn't like shooting a basketball who what we're doing
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: is is trying to take an animal's life, which is
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: inherently is serious of a thing is as there can be. UM.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: So I think the way we think about and talk
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: about these sayings should mirror that seriousness. Um, I've got
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: two final quick questions for you guys. The second question
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you is going to be that I'm interested
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: in what is coming down the line for modern huntsmen.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna you guys can be thinking the back
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: of your mind about what we have to look forward
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: to with the next issue all that kind of stuff.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: But before that, what I'm curious about is I would
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: love you know, just based on hearing from you guys,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: and hearing and seeing your work in previous places, I
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: think I'm guessing you've got some some quality taste in
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: media as far as books or films anything like that.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: So so I'm curious if you have any books or
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: films or resources that you'd recommend to us to whether
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: it be related to hunting or the outdoors or conservation,
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: anything within this realm that we've been talking about that
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: you'd recommend. Um. And I don't know, Charles, would you
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: want to start with with a couple of recommendations? Yeah? Absolutely. Um.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: Two books that that I really enjoy are The Great
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: Animal Orchestra by Bernie Krauss, and it's a book about
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: the Ecology of Sound. And it's something that I know
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of hunters are already thinking about because you know,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: out hunting, but it's this, it's this book that for
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: me really changed the way I looked at ecosystems and
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: looked at just the natural world. And Bernie Krause, he's
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: got a great ted talk on it. Um, he's kind
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: of this uh, this ecology jedi who's who's got a
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: lot figured out and he uh, he tells the story
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: in a pretty unique way. So that's one book. And
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: then you know another book that's the really is just
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: like a timeless classic that was really really um galvanized
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: my passion and interest in natural history and storytelling is
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: a sand County mac Elderly. It's kind of one of
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: the grandfathers and conservation um. And those those are two
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: books that just uh yeah, that that are really really
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: inspiring and well done. Um you know. Uh. In terms
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: of films, I think one that I felt, which they
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: all plug because because I worked on it, but also
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: because it was a film that that really opened my
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: eyes to complex narratives is a film called Island Earth.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: That's a film that was directed by Sarah Sutton, a
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: great friend, one of the first people I worked for
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: after grad school, you know, diving into the creative world. Um.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: He's a just a really talent that he's an Emmy
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: Award winner pro surfer, but also an amazing reporter and
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: kind of objective journalists. And Island Earth is a film
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: you can find an iTunes, um, probably some other places,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: but I do know it's on iTunes, and it explores
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: GMOs and kind of the landscape of genically modified organisms,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: specifically plants. It kind of takes place in Hawaii, were
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of the big chemical companies, you know, the
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: Dousand Monsantos do a lot of their their research. Um.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I think it does a really good job
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: of painting a fair brushstroke across a really complicated topic,
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: kind of like hunting or politics or whatever. Um. So yeah,
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: that would be kind of my shameless plug for Islanders.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: But it's it's a film that I think will definitely
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: open your eyes and kind of highlight those those complexities
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: and the fact that there's not one easy answer to
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: some of these bigger problems. Interesting, I have not seen that,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: but luff to check it out and to your Sand
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: County Almanac recommendation I can't echo that enough. We've talked
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: about a lot un passed episodes, so hopefully if you
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: haven't yet, this is another reminder to check that one out.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: And it's funny you mentioned that I just got a
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: tweet yesterday from someone. Um. They tweeted at me and
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: said that they went into Barnes Noble and went up
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: to the counter after hearing us talk about it, and
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: it asked for and asked if they had a Sand
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: County Almanac, and the lady or person whoever it was,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: UM just got this really like huge smile on their
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: face and like this quizzical look, and they're like, that
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: is the weirdest thing because literally just moments before she
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: went and got the one lone copy of a Sand
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: County Almanac from out back and put on the shelf,
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: thinking how no one's gonna pick this up, and just
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: seconds later someone asked for it. So that, yeah, kind
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: of kind of a strange, interesting circumstance. So it was
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: it was meant to be UM that Eldo was going
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: to find his way to someone else's mind. UM. So, Tyler,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: do you have any recommendations? I do, UM, So, I
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: unfortunately haven't been able to read as much the last
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: few months with travel and us trying to get things
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: going forward. But I a couple of months ago I
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: finished Roosevelt Trilogy there. You know, it's a three part
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: book or three book series, a massive I think. The
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: first one was called The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt, the
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: second one was called Theodore Rex, and the last one's
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: Colonel Roosevelt. But the second one, in particular, Theodore Rex,
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: was about his active presidency, and it really goes into
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: a little more detail about his views of conservation and
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: how he came about them through touring around the United
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: States and seeing areas of what used to be wilderness
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: that were just being decimated it and he really felt
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: the need to try to make it stop. And so
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: it really kind of goes into that and how he
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: put that into action legislative wise. And then you know,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: after his presidency, some of the hunting so far as
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: he went on, and it was really interesting to me
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: to see that even back in you know, nineteen fourteen
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: or nineteen eighteen, whatever it was, that the people's people
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: were still giving crap about And you know, I had
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: no idea. I just assumed that back then hunting was
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: much more widely, and while it may be on a
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: larger scale, but there was still a general public in
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: sensus that questioned some of these you know, bigger game quests,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: and that was really interesting to me, and UH it
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: definitely gave a little bit more perspective into his conservation
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: philosophy and how it sort of led us to where
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: we're at today. UM, So i'd highly recommend that. UM.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: In terms of films, I don't have a specific film
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: that I have watched recently. Two of note, however, UM,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: Charles and I and Brad are working together to make
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: the Modern Huntsman Site be a pretty hefty resource for
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: conservation films and hunting films and films that UH promote
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: and discuss topics like Charles was talking about. And so
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: here in the next few months, we're gonna be releasing
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: a lot more of those on the site UM in
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: an effort to kind of expand the conversation and and
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: be able to showcase more work of directors and cinematographers
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: and people who are just doing great things in the
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: film world. Because currently, you know, to watch a lot
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: of these films, you gotta go to fifteen different YouTube channels.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: You gotta go to film festival or you gotta follow
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: the right person on Instagram. And so we want to
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: try to be um, you know, sort of a collection
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: and a resource for for all that type of work.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: So check back soon and hopefully we'll have a lot
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: more of those. In the film trail of it we
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: just posted last week, uh and I'll plug Charles. Here
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: was his film that he uh produced with Max Lowe
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: and UM forced yep, Forest Woodward uh Sky Migrations. UM.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: We posted the trailer on our on our page, and
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: it is absolutely fantastic. UM. I would highly recommend nobody. Yeah,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: it really is that we did not play in that,
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: but no, there there are a number, I mean a
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: vast number of creatives in this space who are writers
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: or photographers or filmmakers, UM or you know, like like Charles,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: who are you know, by trade an ecologists, but by
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: you know, value a storyteller and can apply They're learning
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: into a way that people both you know, hunters non hunters.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: I mean not to just get to general, but but
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: that folks can digest and interpret the work and the
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: findings that they've come up with and really get inspired
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: by it. Um. Charles is a ridiculous storyteller. I'll then
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: know you that six box are saying that Dad, thanks buddy. Yeah,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: and that to to echo what you recommended a second
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: ago there, Tyler to Theodore Roosevelt, Um, histories, you cannot
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: go wrong with learning more about what that guy did.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: He had his hands on so much of of what
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: we now have as as an amazing inheritance, whether it
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: be the our public lands or wildlife populations and game
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: laws that allow them to be sustainable, or the fair chase.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: You know, the ethics and morals that we that we
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: have around how we pursue game. Um, he was involved
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: in so much of that stuff. And and I haven't
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: read Theodore Rex yet, but I have read many, including
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: on one I'd recommend The Wilderness Warrior, which it's a
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: heavy one. It's a tough one to get through if
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: you're not like really devoted to wanting to know everything
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: about Theodore Roosevelt related to the wild, the wild environment
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: and conservation. But if you are really interested in that,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: it goes so into debt of of everything he had
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: that he was involved with. And um, you'll walk away
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: from that book knowing a lot. Uh. And he'll appreciate
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: what he did a lot more. Another one that I'm
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: actually reading right now is called The Naturalist, which is
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: another look at Fiodoor Roosevelt from natural history standpoint, but
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: a little more focused on his experiences in nature and
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: his focus on understanding them from a natural history perspective,
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: from like a you know, how to observe, collect and
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: even you know, send some these specimens to museums and
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: different things. But it really goes into detail about a
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: lot more of his outdoor experiences and ventures, and and
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: through those stories it does talk a little bit about
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: some of the politics and some of the different things
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: he achieved in office. But um, that's an interesting perspective
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: to UM. And then if you're a hunter and you
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: want to just understand tr from a hunting perspective. His
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: books that he wrote are really fantastic too. He was
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: a really really great writer, not him, He was great
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: at so many things, UM, But The Wilderness Hunter is
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: a great one. And UM, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman,
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: I think, is another uh that that are great, really compelling,
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: interesting stories that he tells. UM that really puts you
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: right back there in western North Dakota. And four and
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: and and understand what that was like. Um So those
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: are all additional recommendations that throw out there. So, um well,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: just to add to that topic. I'm not sure if
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: you actually got to read volume one up on Her
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: Huntsman yet. But we have the added benefit of having
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: the guidance of one Simon Roosevelt, who's actually TR's great
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: great grandson. Um I met him a few years ago
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: and sort of in the beginning stages of this venture,
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: and um, he you know, at the right time. I
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: asked if he would want to help advise us, and
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: he said, I'll do you want better, I'd I'd like
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: to not only advise, but you know, be be a contributor.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: So we have him as a columnist, and he's definitely
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: having a major hand and helping us guide helping guide
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: us in the in the right direction and and sort
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: of adhering to some of those principles and but then
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: sort of modernizing them where they need to be modernized.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: And so you know, he's definitely somebody who's who's had
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: a very large behind the scenes role doing so it's
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: an honor for sure. I did see that and I
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: thought that was that was very cool. So that's A.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: That's a perfect segue then too. My next question, which
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: is what should we be looking forward to in the
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: next issue and the future and where can people find
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: all this stuff? I guess and I don't know if Tyler,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: if you want to take the first step of that
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: or anyone else. Sure, So I think that, UM, you know,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: right now we're really trying, we're moving trying to move
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: more towards a subscription model. UM. We're releasing two a year.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: We're hoping two thousand nineteen to release three a year. UM.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: But right now we're moving into volume two, which we're
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: hoping to release, um, you know, in the fall, probably
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: in September October area somewhere in there, depending on how
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: hard of a time Charles and I have wrangling all
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: these contributors. UM. But that is going to be themed
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: around public lands, and UM, I think it's a very
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: important issue right now to discuss on very on several levels. UM.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: But we also expand expanding a little more into the
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: international arena. So we had a lot of feedback from
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: you know, people who ordered the magazine said, hey, are
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: you gonna do stories besides the United States? And the
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: answer to that is yes, UM, We're gonna start to
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: scale that up a little bit in the next issue. Um,
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: but in the context of public land, because we are
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: blessed with, you know, a vast area of publicly the
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: United States that most hardly anywhere else in the world has.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: And so what are the situations like in other parts
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: of the world where that doesn't exist? What are the pros,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: what are the cons you know, what what can we
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: take away from that as Americans with with this inheritance
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: of a wealth of lands? Uh? And then what in
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: what issues current issues, whether they're political or legislative or um, local,
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: are are imperative right now? And what do we need
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: to know about them? And then what if anything can
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: we do about them? So you know, not only are
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: we trying to present topics, but we wherever possible, we
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: want to present sort of some action items on how
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: people to be involved or you know, improve the situation
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: in some way or another. Would you guys add anything else,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: Charles or Bread that's a clear no, thank it's teller. Well, Charles,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: I think you know and Charles is you know your
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: your background is a little more related to the ecology
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: side and helping us bridge the gap with as you
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: said across the aisle, and so maybe talk a little
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: bit about our strategy there. Yeah, I think, you know,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: one of the um one of the mini drivers that
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: I think are kind of shaping issue too for us
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: is thinking about storytellers and kind of staples in the
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: hunting community that will further our ability to build bridges.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that we're gonna do is
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: is obviously, you know, be connecting and working with some
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: of these UM household names and the hunting and street
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: because they have so much to share, They have so
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: much history with public lands, they have so many, um
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: you know, rich and smart perspectives that that will add
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: a lot to the broader narratives. But we also want
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: to include voices. We also will include voices and stories
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: of people who have a hand and a foot in
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: kind of different worlds, whether it's the confluence of outer
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: recreation and hunting, or even surf culture and hunting, or
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: food culture and hunting. UM and we want to tell
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: stories that bring us back to the essence of modern
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: huntsmen and bring us back to the essence of issue
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: to public lands. But we also want to point out
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: and really celebrate the diversity of people who all have
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: a stake in public lands and who you know have
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: hunting as this kind of common thread and hunting, as
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: we've talked about on this podcast, is this pretty dynamic
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: um you know, uh, activity, mindset, you know, approach and
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: and we aim to to paint it and you know
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: in an diversible light as it is. Um. So I'm
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: really excited to kind of bring some maybe not atypical,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: but some just kind of some different voices to the
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: table that'll that will make the whole issue that much
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: more rich and holistic. Well, uh, that sounds it sounds
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: like based off of what both of you share, that
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: we've got a lot to look forward to with issue too.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: I can attest to the fact I have the first
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: value here in my hands. It is a beautiful piece
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: of work you guys, really just just the physical nature
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: of it itself is beautiful. But then also the content
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: I think you guys did a great job of of
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: curating both thoughtful stories and articles and beautiful photography. I mean,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: it is definitely a um, I don't know, it's a
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: pleasure to behold. It is something that really is that
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: really well be done piece of media related to what
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: we all love so much, which is hunting and garnering
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: our food from wild places. So I'm glad that you
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: guys are doing this, that you're sharing a different way
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: to think about and communicate and um interact with hunting.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's needed, it's worthwhile, and uh, I've
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: been enjoying it. So I'm looking forward what you guys
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: have up next and bread. If people want to pick
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: up a copy of volume one, or if they want
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: to subscribe for future issues, or if they want to
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: follow what you guys are doing online, where can they
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: do all this stuff? Yep, you can go to our
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: website at Modern Huntsman dot co CEO and to subscribe
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: you can either just click on a little button right
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: there in the center or it's modern husband dot co
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: slash subscribe and uh, as always, people can check us
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: out on Instagram at modern Huntsman um or or on
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: our Facebook page terrific. Well we will link to all
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: that stuff and UM, I really enjoyed this conversation guys,
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: thank you for for taking the time to talk about
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: this stuff. Thanks, thank you, and that will do it.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: Quick reminder if you haven't yet, we would love it
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: if you could leave a rating or review on iTunes.
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: It would be amazing if you could subscribe to this
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: podcast there as well, and subscribe to the Wired Hunt
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: YouTube channel. Lots coming up there. I just published my
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: first piece of content documenting my two thousand seventeen hunting season,
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: talking through the first hunt of the year, and later
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: this week I'll have a new video coming out that
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: talks about my plan and what happened there in late
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: October when I went for my next strike after this
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: deer called holy Field, So that might be interesting. You
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: can check that out over on YouTube. Otherwise, just want
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: to thank all of you for joining us for this podcast,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: for tuning in, for considering these different ideas and perspectives.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: I found it really interesting. I hope you did too.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: Until next time, I hope you'll stay Wired to Hunt.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: H