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Why This Democrat Thinks He Can Beat Joe Biden · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Donald Trump puts the big lie at
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the center of his legal defense strategy, Joe Biden makes
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: his case in the economy, and later... Representative Dean Phillips
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: stopped by the studio to talk with me and Lovett
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: about his long-shot campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination. Lively interview, Dan.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Lively interview.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I heard. I heard it described many ways. I'm excited
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: to hear it.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: All right, but first, the battle for second place in
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: the Republican primary just got even more interesting to the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: hundred or so people paying attention. Nikki Haley has nabbed
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the endorsement of billionaire Charles Koch's Americans for Prosperity Action campaign.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: The Koch network's political arm spent half a billion dollars
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: in 2020, and they're now making a last-ditch effort to
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: help Republicans move on from Trump by backing Haley with
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: a huge ad campaign and thousands of field organizers. The
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: group said in a memo that their early state polling shows, quote,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: growing support for Haley and shrinking support for DeSantis. Hate
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: to see it. But both candidates are still 20 to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: 30 points behind Trump, whose campaign reacted to the news
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: yesterday by calling Haley a pro-China, open borders, globalist birdbrain. Meanwhile,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Haley just launched the first television ad of her campaign.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: It's part of a $ 10 million buy in Iowa and
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: New Hampshire. Here it is.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: A president must have moral clarity and know the difference
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: between good and evil. It's time for a new generation
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: of conservative leadership. We have to leave behind the chaos
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: and drama of the past and strengthen our country, our pride,
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: and our purpose.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: How much do you think the Koch endorsement actually matters
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: at this stage in the primary?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: First, I want to stipulate that nothing says more about
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Republican politics right now that she doesn't take a side
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: on whether good or evil is bad. You just have
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: to be able to distinguish between the two of them.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she wants to leave herself open to those voters
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: who might be evil curious.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which actually turns out is a majority of Republican-based voters.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right, right.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I will say that it is likely that this co-condorsement
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: will unlock some additional money for Haley Superpack, which is
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: great for her consultants who will make even more money
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: making shitty ads like this one. Because there are a
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: bunch of anti-Trump Republican billionaires who love his tax cuts
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: and cutting regulations allowing him to pollute and kill people more.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: but are uncomfortable in having to talk to their grandkids
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: at Thanksgiving about all of his racism and embarrassing stupidity.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: And a lot of those people back to Santas. And
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I think Koch is sending a signal to them saying,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: it's okay to come in and give money to Haley.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Haley is our best chance, even if it's not a
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: great chance. But for voters, you have to have been
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: asleep for the last 10 years of Republican politics to
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: think a billionaire-funded Republican establishment organization endorsement would be anything
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: other than a net negative with actual voters.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I don't I mean, and also the Koch network,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: their positions are, you know, it does align with Haley,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: but it's part of the, you know, pre 2016 Republican Party.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: They're like for immigration reform right there. And so it's
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: just they don't really represent the MAGA movement in any way.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: And by that, I mean, like what voters who like
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump really care about is not really aligned with
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: the Koch network.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: But you're right.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: She's going to have a bunch of money now. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I think it means more in terms of like the, again,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: the race for second place than anything else, because it
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: just shows more people, more money people are moving away
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: from Ron DeSantis. And I do think she's now consolidating
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the anti-Trump part of the Republican Party, which again is like,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: you know, a third of the voters and probably a
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: bunch of the donors.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Just- One more note on the Koch network is they
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: have been opposing Trump and Trumpism and Trump candidates since 2015.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: How's that working for them?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, good for them for trying, but it's not
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: going that well. I'd rather them be doing that than
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: backing Donald Trump, but beyond that. So what's your strategy
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: if you're Nikki Haley's campaign right now? Are you focusing
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: on Trump, DeSantis, both? What did you think of that ad?
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I know it's not your cup of tea, but what
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: do you think of the message there?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Everything that Nikki Haley is doing, including that ad, is
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: evidence that she is not running to defeat Donald Trump
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: for the Republican nomination. She is running to be the
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: possible nominee in a post-Trump GOP, whether that is because
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: he gets sent to prison before the convention or in
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: a 2028 race. Because the math is very clear that
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: if you really wanted to defeat Donald Trump from Nikki
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Haley's position... The absolute last thing you would do is
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: attack Ron DeSantis. As you pointed out, the universal potential
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: voters for Nikki Haley is like 33% of the electorate.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: So what you need DeSantis to do is to split
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: the MAGA vote with Trump. And that is evident in
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: all of the polling. NBC did this poll earlier this
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: month where they asked every Republican primary voter their first
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: and second choice. Unsurprisingly- Donald Trump has 71% of first
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and second vote combined. Ron DeSantis has 54% combined. And
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Nikki Haley is 28% combined. So what you need for
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Haley to succeed, she needs some of those people who
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: have Trump one, DeSantis two, to go to DeSantis one,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Trump two. But by attacking DeSantis, she's making it easier
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: for Trump to succeed. So what I would do there
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: is I wouldn't say I would go head on against Trump.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I would run better versions of this ad. I would
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: try to make myself seem more electable without saying Trump's unelectable.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: I would try to consolidate that 33% and then potentially
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: have my now super well-funded super PAC run as attacking
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: DeSantis from the left, saying he's been too tough on immigrants.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: He's been too mean to trans kids or he's been
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: too tough on free speech or cancel culture or whatever
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: else to be elected.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So beef up his– Beef up his MAGA credentials.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, this is all a long shot, but
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: what she's doing right.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's stipulated.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I mean, the longest of long shot, right?
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: This is like Hail Mary from the three-yard line, but
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: what she's doing is clearly not a plan to come
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: in first. It's a plan to come in second in
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: the hopes that number one goes to jail.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: So I don't... I mean, up until now, I don't...
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I assumed that she was attacking DeSantis because... I don't know,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: he was in her sights, right? And punchable.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: He's very punchable.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Right, and punchable and he's second place. Now that she's
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: firmly in second place, I would expect her, if she
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: does want to win, to not attack DeSantis and to
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: sort of go after Trump. I also expect, like, I'm
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: wondering if in this next debate she'll, I would expect
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: her to get a little bit more MAGA because now she,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: so that NBC poll that you cited, you know, it
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: shows that her first and second choice voters are disproportionately
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: college educated and moderate. So again, she's, consolidating the anti-Trump
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: wing of the party to the extent that she gained
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: on DeSantis. It was mostly moderate to liberal Republican voters,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: or people who call themselves moderate to liberal who are
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Republican voters, and college-educated voters. So that's what he lost
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and she gained. But now, if she wants to dip
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: into that, again, there's the 30% that's the hardcore MAGA base,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: but that 30% in the middle that likes Trump but
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: is willing to entertain alternatives, if she wants them, she's
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: got to be careful of not appearing too... you know,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: globalist rhino, which is what the Trump people are now
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: trying to define her as. And Ron DeSantis is going
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to try to define her as. So I would bet
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: that in the next debate, she tried, like, you have
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: to imagine DeSantis is going to start attacking her. It's
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: going to be tempting for her to get into a
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: back and forth with DeSantis. But she also probably wants
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: to take on Trump a little bit at that debate.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: But she also wants to keep the MAGA people happy.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: So I think she's, this is why this is a
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: bigger structural issue for any of these candidates more than
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: about their individual personality and strategy because they're just trapped
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: in this party that is in the thrall of Donald Trump.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Look, this is nearly impossible under all these ways. And
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: this was always Trump's to lose. And he tried really
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: hard and still couldn't lose it. But there are better
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: strategies than the one she's employing, which is why I
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: think she's going for second.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I think she just doesn't know what she's... I think
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: she wants to win. I think she's still thinking, if
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I can pass DeSantis in Iowa... Then in New Hampshire,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: maybe the Republican electorate is a little more anti-Trump, moderate, independent,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: college-educated than in Iowa. So maybe she can win New Hampshire.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe she gets just a close second in New Hampshire.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: And then she bets it all on South Carolina. Also,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: pull out of Iowa. Oh, you think pull out of Iowa?
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: It worked for John McCain?
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: And then what happened?
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about South Carolina because the polls show
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: her trailing Trump by double digits in her home state
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: where she served as governor. The pro-Trump super PAC, Tony Fabrizio,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Trump's longtime pollster, so take it for a grain of salt,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: but just did a poll there in South Carolina. 53 Trump,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: 24 Haley, 11 DeSantis. But then when you do a
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: head-to-head of just Trump versus Haley, which it could be
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: by the time we get to South Carolina, Trump wins 64-31.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: So he expands his lead.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: For the exact DeSantis reason we talked about.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think it's possible if she wins New
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Hampshire to turn those numbers around by the time she
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: gets to South Carolina? It is a month that she
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: has in between.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, she'd be much better off if it was
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: 10 days instead of a month.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Because then bird brain really sticks.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: Well, you just.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Look, that is the sleeping giant in this campaign. The
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: bird brain. If she were to defeat Trump in New Hampshire...
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: she would have a huge burst of momentum. Whether that's
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: enough or not, we don't know. But over time, in
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: all Republican politics, in the era of Trump, it all
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: reverts back to the mean always. And so a month
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: is an eternity for her. She'd be better off if
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: it was very quick.
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: Could she do it?
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: There's never been a tested proposition of what happens when
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Trump loses a race he's.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: Supposed to win.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: These are imperfect analogies.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I Hillary Clinton in 2008 had a mantle of inevitability
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: until she was no longer inevitable, and the bottom fell
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: out very quickly. Could the same thing happen with Trump? Maybe,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: maybe not, but that's the only hope Haley has.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: It also depends on how he loses, too, because you
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: could imagine him losing the New Hampshire primary, saying that
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: it was rigged, starting to say that the election was
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: stolen again, and suddenly you get a bunch of Republican
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: voters who are like, you know, I like the guy,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: but we're going to deal with this again, and she
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: just won.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: You have to lose by a margin that is big
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: enough that people won't really think it was stolen, but
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: small enough that Trump would still argue it was stolen.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: That's a real sweet spot right there.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Well, because the Republican Party is totally normal,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Haley still can't get any traction against the guy who's
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: currently battling 91 felony charges. This week, Trump's lawyers filed
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: a new defense motion in D.C. federal court that argues
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: their client had a legitimate good faith basis. To question
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: the results of the election, he's charged with trying to overturn.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: To prove this, they're requesting classified information from the Department
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: of Justice that they say will help prove that the
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: election may, in fact, have been rigged. So, Dan, they're
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: going like full whack job on this one. They're saying
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: maybe the deep state did it. Maybe there was foreign interference. Ironic.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: They bring up Hunter Biden's case in this filing. They
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: bring up Mike Pence taking classified documents in that case.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: because they're basically saying, oh, Mike Pence's testimony that is
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: incredibly damning to Donald Trump, which they are guessing it is,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: and the reports have suggested that as well, that maybe
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Mike Pence just lied to investigators because he was trying
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: to curry favor with the DOJ so they wouldn't charge
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: him with the classified documents. That's the bank shot they're
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: taking on Mike Pence. I certainly can't speak to the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: wisdom of this legal strategy, though I do have my doubts.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Do you?
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Do you have your doubts? Well, we can talk about that.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: What do you think about this as a political strategy?
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: As you know, I'm someone who often swims in the
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: dark end of the pool when it comes to optimism,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: and nothing has made me more hopeful about 2024 than
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: this article.
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: Really?
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Well, the idea that Donald Trump would use the most
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: high-profile moment of this campaign, because it's arguable that the
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: handful of days of Donald Trump's January 6th trial were
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: to happen on schedule would be as big a news
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: event as the convention speeches and the debates. And that
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: he would use that to argue his insane election conspiracy theory,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: which is a net negative for him with the overall electorate,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: is such a gift for Democrats. I can hardly take it.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Don't you think that everyone already knows that Trump is
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: an election denier and that it's sort of baked into
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: his approval ratings? And yes, the trial will remind them
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: of that. But either way, the trial was going to
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: remind them of that because the whole trial is about
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: him trying to overturn the election and denying what happened.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are two ways that this is argued, right?
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: One is that they can't convict him and he didn't
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: really try to overturn the election. Another one is, I
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: tried to overturn the election because the election was stolen.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: And here's all my crazy ideas for why the election
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: was stolen, which is what they're essentially saying they're going
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: to do. And then there's one of other two theories
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: of the overall election. One is, people have a great
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: memory of what it's like to have Donald Trump as president.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: They have not forgotten it. They have then compared it
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: to what they think of Joe Biden as president. They've
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: decided they now like Trump more than ever before. Or,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: There is some sort of amnesia. Absence has made the
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: heart grow slightly fonder among some segment of the electorate.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: If that's the case, this is a great reminder of
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: why everyone turned on Trump. And so I think that
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: matters a lot. And the polling on this is very clear, right?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: In that New York Times poll that everyone loves to hate,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: they actually ran this very smart experiment.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Not me. Not me, Dan. You know how much I
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: love the New York Times polls.
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: Are you?
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I saw someone use this one on our Slack. Are
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: you a conehead?
• 14:39
  Speaker 8: I'm a conehead.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: You're a conehead. I'm a conehead.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Not being sarcastic. You know how I feel about them.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: They're great polls.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: They're not infallible, but they're some of the.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Best there is. I am also a conehead. Put that
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: in the merch store, people. But they ran this experiment
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: where they tested a generic anti-Trump Democrat against two versions
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: of Republican. One who said the election was stolen and
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: one who said that we should move on from– the
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: election was won fair and square and we should move
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: on from 2020. That latter one, the one who accepted
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the election results, did 12 points better than than the
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: election denying Republican. And so Trump is somewhat unique in this.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: He's not a generic Republican, but anytime he's talking about
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: the election being stolen is good for Democrats.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: There is a little bit of nuance to the legal
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: strategy that I think is worth talking about when you
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: sort of dig through the filing. What they're trying to
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: persuade the jury of is not necessarily that the election
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: was definitely stolen, but that Trump at least had reason
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: to question all the people working for him and all
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the people in the federal government who told him it
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: wasn't stolen. And so, and they're going to allege political bias.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: And so they're, they are doing what Trump always likes
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: to do, which is just like fuzz up the truth.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: So people don't know what to believe until the jury look,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they'll say to the jury, you don't have
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to think that the election was stolen to think that
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump is innocent of what they're charging him. All
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: he was trying to do is say that there were
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: reasons to question the results. And he just wanted to
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: continue questioning. questioning them right up to the last minute
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: because he genuinely thought from X report or this report that,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: you know, there was going to be foreign interference or
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: this or that, that there might be a chance that
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: it was stolen. And, you know, we can all move
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: on from the fact that the election happened and Joe
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Biden's the president, but at least he had, at least
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: he had the reason, at least he had good reason
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: to question what happened.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: That is a theory. I'm not sure that's a legal theory.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Doesn't comport with the law, which does not– if you
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: erroneously think the bank has $ 10, 000 of your money, you
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: can't go to the bank and steal it.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: But I do wonder if it's– Yes. I don't think
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: that– I do not believe at the end of the
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: day a man who very much does not want to
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: go to jail is going to have his lawyers go
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: up there and instead of trying to find real ways
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: to defend him, just present, you know, have the cyber
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: ninjas testify, right?
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's going.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: To be what happens here.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: The ghost of Hugo Chavez.
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to be, it's not going
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: to be that funny, but if the thrust of it
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: is the election was really stolen, because Trump may insist
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: they make some part of that case, even if it's
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: just sort of on top of the other legal theories,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: that is for, from a political perspective, like I said,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: we can't speak to the legal part, although we'd be
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: willing to if people would take it seriously. The is
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: different than the federal government is persecuting me because of
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: my political views.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also, that's the political strategy too. And part
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: of the legal strategy here is going to be, they
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: are persecuting me for my political views. They, uh, they
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: know damn well that there was reason to question the
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: election results, but it was all a conspiracy by the
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: deep state and at the Biden administration, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: That's all they want. That's the political strategy. And it's
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: also the other part of the legal strategy here is remember,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: they're asking for a bunch of classified information, uh, Slow
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: it down. So if a judge granted that, they could
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: slow it down, right? And presumably she won't grant this
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: crazy request, but maybe then they appeal it. And the
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: whole game here is to delay, delay, delay, because they
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: know they have now successfully done that in his classified
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: documents case in Florida, thanks to Judge Cannon. Although there
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: was some interesting news on that. ABC reported yesterday that
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: a Trump attorney told prosecutors that she warned him, quote,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: it's going to be a crime. if he refused to
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: comply with the subpoena for the classified documents, and he
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: said he understood. He is so lucky that he has
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Judge Cannon in that case, because that, to me, again,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: not a lawyer, but is the most, like, legally open
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: and shut case of all of them.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Like, hey, you're sent a subpoena. You have to comply. Otherwise,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you go to jail, lawyer tells client. Client says, I
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: get it. No, I'm not complying.
• 18:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: And also, you can't take classified documents out of the
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: White House and you take classified documents out of the
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: White House and they find them in your possession.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: You're done. God, I hope she does. I mean, we
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: don't know when that trial is going to end up.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: We know it's going to probably be pushed from May,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. Maybe September? Maybe right around the debates?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's a 2025 plan? We don't know.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Trump also launched a national campaign ad this week attacking
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: President Biden on the Afghanistan withdrawal. Let's take a listen.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: As Commander-in-Chief He always had his soldiers' backs, was always
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: there to support them and their families. He kept his
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: promise to keep them out of endless wars and to
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: never forget about them after they served. America learned having
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: a weak leader can tragically lead to American deaths, which
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: is why America needs strength.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: Now more than ever.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: So I have to admit, when I heard the first
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: couple lines of that ad, I started laughing just because
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I thought it was like a parody because it was
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: like the service members know that Donald Trump has always
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: had their back. It's like the guy who attack Gold
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Star families, who said he didn't want to be photographed
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: with wounded veterans because he was uncomfortable, who attacked John
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: McCain both when he was alive and after he died,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and attacked specifically his service. I mean, it's ridiculous. But
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: obviously there was a reason to air that, and it
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: was partly because of, I guess, the Biden part of it.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: But what did you think of that ad?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I think it is one of the least subtle, most explicit,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: and probably effective ads I've seen in a while. Donald
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Trump believes he is going to win this race on
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: strength versus weakness. That is how he thinks about everything
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: in life, right? It is power dynamics. And this is largely, sorry, Elijah,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: an audio medium still. And so most people didn't see
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: the ad, but one of the things is Biden falling,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: tripping up the stairs of Air Force One, right, too,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: which is This has been the strategy for years now.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: He's checking his watch.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: He's checking his watch. That is an Easter egg for
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: the true mega heads. You have to really know what
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: that is. You have to know where he is, what's happening.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: But for the real viewers of The Five, they got
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: that and they're proud of it. But for most people,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: it's to make Biden seem old and weak and Donald
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Trump strong. I also think it's an acknowledgement that, and
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: we've seen this in polling before, that the stuff Donald
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Trump did and has said around veterans, particularly in the
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: run-up to the election, the stories that were in The
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Atlantic about what he said about John Kelly's son who
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: was killed in the.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: War, were damaging.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: And Trump did worse with voters in veteran households in
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: 2020 and 2016 by a number sufficient enough to decide
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: the election. And so I do think there is some
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: sort of just trying to address that weakness heading into
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: the general. And then lastly, and this is a very
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: tactical thing that Trump does, is whenever there's a Republican debate,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: he acts like he's running in the general election against Biden.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: So he's running a general election national ad the week
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: of the debate to show that he is not thinking
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: at all about Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley. He's focused on Biden.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: He's also doing a Hannity town hall in Iowa the
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: day before, the night before the debate as well. So
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that'll be mostly focused on Biden there too. No,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's everyone who rightly gets annoyed that the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: We're not talking about Donald Trump's age. We're just talking
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: about Joe Biden's age and Donald Trump's only three years younger.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: It's really not. This ad proves that they're not trying
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: to make it necessarily about age. They're trying to make it.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: They're trying. Frailness and weakness leads to chaos and destruction.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's like the whole it's the whole message
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: from the Trump campaign leads to instability at home. At
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: least look at the world's a mess. You're feeling that
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: the world's a mess. You're feeling everything's crazy and it's
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: all chaotic. And because Joe Biden is weak and frail,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: that's why this is happening. And Donald Trump is a
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: strong man. And so he will fix it all. And
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: it also, you know, as we heard in Nikki Haley's ad,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: one of the attacks against Trump that does seem to
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: stick is that he leads to chaos. So this is, again,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Trump trying to fuzz up his own weakness and vulnerability
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: by making it Joe Biden's as well. You think I'm chaos.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's also chaos. But for him, it's because he's
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: weak and I'm strong. What do you think the Biden
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: people do about that kind of ad? I mean, they
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: don't respond to it, but the general message that they're
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: trying to.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's what the thrust of the entire campaign is.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden has to pass a threshold for voters who
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: are concerned about his age that he has the capacity
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: and the vigor and the strength to do the job,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: not just right now, but for the next four years.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And that's what the campaign is going to be about.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: That's what the State of the Union is about. That
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: is what the convention speech is about. That's what the
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: debates are about. I hope that in the ads that
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Biden campaign runs, you see a lot of Joe Biden talking, right?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: And that is not going to be as persuasive to
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: swing voters in terms of messaging as ads that have
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: real people telling stories. But the people who are going
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: to decide this election, as we talked about a thousand
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: times on this podcast, do not engage with political news.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: So they never see Joe Biden speaking. So they're going
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: to have to, in their ads, pay to show people that.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: And so that's all what it's about. It's not like
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: respond to this specific ad. And I also think there's
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: a redefinition of strength. both in how you talk about
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Trump and making him seem weak and making him seem
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: like a weak, scared bully who picks on people, who
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: divides people, and defining strength on what he's accomplished, what
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: he's gone through in his life, what he's dealt with,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: how he's managed his crises, is you're going to have
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: to narrow the gap on that and show that you
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: can be strong and decent, right? And not a bully
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: and an asshole, which is sort of what the contrast is.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of what it was in 2020. And
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Biden did it very, very well. He's going to have
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: to redo that with more baggage this time because people
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: care a lot more about his age now than they
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: did then, according to polls.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: And because he's an incumbent and not a challenger. And
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: we like to blame everything on the incumbent president. Speaking
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: of Joe Biden, he hit the road this week to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: speak about what most voters say is the number one
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: issue most important to them in 2024, the economy. Since
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: most voters also disapprove of the way Joe Biden's handling
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: the economy and think that Donald Trump would do a
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: better job, the president is stepping up his attempts to
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: make sure people know about his long list of significant
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: economic accomplishments. He visited a wind turbine manufacturer that's creating
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: 850 jobs thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act. It also
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: happened to be in the Colorado district of avid theatergoer
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Lauren Boebert, who Biden pointed out voted against these jobs.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Let's listen.
• 25:41
  Speaker 8: The historic investments we're celebrating today is in Congressman Boebert's district.
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: She's one of the leaders of this extreme mega movement. She,
• 25:58
  Speaker 8: along with every single Republican colleague, voted against the law.
• 26:02
  Speaker 8: that made these investments in jobs possible. And that's not hyperbole.
• 26:05
  Speaker 8: That's a fact. And then she voted to repeal key
• 26:09
  Speaker 8: parts of this law. And she called this law a
• 26:13
  Speaker 8: massive failure. You all know you're part of a massive failure?
• 26:19
  Speaker 8: Tell that to the 850 Colorados who get new jobs
• 26:22
  Speaker 8: in Pueblo and C.S. Wynne, thanks to this law. Across Colorado,
• 26:26
  Speaker 8: Xcel Energy is investing $ 1. 7 billion to improve the state's
• 26:32
  Speaker 8: electric grid. And folks, none of that sounds like a
• 26:36
  Speaker 8: massive failure to me. How about you?
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: He always needs like the first couple seconds to sort
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: of warm up in those. Like by the end, he's
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: sounding like, you know, he's like pounding the fist. It
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: sounded like he's fighting at the beginning. It's always like,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: come on, get there, get there, get there.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Honestly, me too.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Same as this podcast.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I just have to have some conversations with Hallie
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: right before this just to kind of get the windpipe moving.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: You guys do PSA warm up in your house. So
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: earlier in the week, Biden also went after corporations for
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: using inflation as an excuse to price gouge, which, as
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: you know, is one of my favorite things to do,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: despite all the nerds. No, attacking corporations. Despite all the
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: fucking nerds, we're like, oh, it's not the price gouging
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: that's leading to inflation that we had to deal with. Anyway,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: not to... I just can't believe that this is.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Like the third podcast in a row. You've somehow turned
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: this into a classic jocks versus nerds battle where you
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: somehow think we're not also nerds.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I've never been a jock in my life. Anyway, what
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: did you make of both those events?
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I love the price gouging argument. We do not have
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: to have an epistemological argument about the origins of inflation
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: because But it is very important. One of our advantages,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: and there aren't that many advantages right now for Democrats
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: in the economy, is that Republicans are seen as being
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: more corporate friendly than Democrats. And those are very suspicious
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: of corporations. So we should lean into that. And this
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: is one way to do that. You don't have to
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: say that price gouging and Joe Biden does not, because
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: he has very able economic staff who would never let
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: him do this. Nerds, if you will, who would let
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: him do this. say that that's the sole reason. But
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: price gouging is clearly happening because the prices went up,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: the costs of the materials and labor have gone down,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: but the price the consumers are paying has.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Not gone down.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: And so they're profiteering off of this initial rise in.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Goods.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So I think that is very good. There is some tension,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I think, in the messaging here, which is I love
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: going to Lauren Boebert's district. That is the right thing
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: to do because that is going to just get more
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: attention from the media than if you went to some
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: other district. Some member of Congress no one had ever
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: heard of. And getting attention has to be job number
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: one for every single thing Biden does.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: There is a.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Little bit of look at all we've done here. Mm-hmm.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: which I think is a tension with also acknowledging that
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: people aren't super happy with the way things are. So
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: you have to then make the turn. And there was
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: a little bit of this in the remarks, but it
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: wasn't in the soundbites that got picked up, is we
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: did these things. Here's what's going to come next if
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: we have four more years. And all this stuff's going
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: to be taken away if the other people get elected, right?
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: That contrast has to be inherent in.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: All of this.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Yes. Well, the Washington Post had a piece We're going
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to talk about this on Offline this week as well.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Have me on because I could talk about this piece
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: for a year. I have so many.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Thoughts on this. I'm talking to Jeff Stein. What is today?
• 29:39
  Speaker 8: I got a bonus.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I got a bone to pick with Jeff Stein about
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: this one.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, God. Are you one of those people?
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: One of those people who think that everyone would be
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: entirely happy with their personal financial situation if they didn't
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: watch TikTok?
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: Those people?
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're one of those other people. That's not what
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: the piece says.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: I'm just teasing. Jeff Stein is great. Jeff Stein is great.
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: No, they got unfairly maligned for this piece. Anyway, but
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: basically for people who are like, what are they talking about?
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: The piece is about how there's this viral TikTok about
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: the fact that there's a $ 16 McDonald's order. And if
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: you look at TikTok and you look at social media,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: there is just all of this real negative information about
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the economy. And some senior Democrats and folks in the
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: White House and economists are saying that the The reason
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: that people are upset about the economy is because the
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: vibes are bad and the vibes are bad because of
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the way that the media covers it, what's on social media, etc.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of other economists in the piece and
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: other people who are like, no, no, no, no, the economy,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: people are feeling like the economy is bad because even
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: though there are great economic statistics on GDP growth and
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: consumer spending and all the rest and inflation has come down, blah, blah, blah.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Prices are still high. The cost of living is still
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: high for people, particularly if you're trying to buy a house,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: rent an apartment. All of these things are weighing on
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: most people in this country, and that is very real.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: So that's the piece. And then it also reports that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Biden's team has been debating whether they should still try
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: to sell his economic accomplishments or focus on drawing contrast
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: with Trump and Republicans. I just don't think this is
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: a debate. I mean, I don't know why. And someone said,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I guess it wasn't someone in the White House, it
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: was a Democratic strategist, of course, who has been talking
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: to the White House. They were like, why would we
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: keep banging our head against the wall doing the same
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: thing and expecting a different result? And I agree. Like,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: it's just, you cannot just keep selling the accomplices. People
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: are not going to be like, oh, God, the CHIPS Act.
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Of course. Supply chains. Oh, the supply chains have been fixed.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Of course. The contrasts are the best. And he's at
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: his best when he's talking about the contrasts. And I
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: realize that some of these are official events, but like, hey,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: guess what? The campaign has started. And Donald Trump's probably
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: going to be the nominee. 98% sure of that. Therefore,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: we got to start doing more events and have more
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: messaging that's about, like you just said, the difference between
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans. I would, and I think that they'll
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: probably will, but I would make the entire State of
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: the Union, except for the foreign policy part you got
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: to do, I would make most of the State of
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the Union about an agenda focused on bringing down the
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: cost of living. You know, introduce bills if you have to,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: hold events, say that it would pass with the Democratic House.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: You can say that the economy is growing, inflation is
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: coming down, but costs are still too high because we
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: have Republicans who would rather let rich tax cheats off
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: the hook than bring costs down for most families. And
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: here's all the reasons why. They want another corporate tax cut.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Trump wants to get rid of the Affordable Care Act.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: They want to gut Medicare and Social Security. Here's what
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: we want to do. Here's my agenda to bring costs
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: down for people paying for college, for people trying to
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: buy a house, for people trying to rent an apartment,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: for people trying to care for their children. This is
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: my agenda and this is their agenda. And you just
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: do it like over and over and over again.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. So three pieces of general advice for
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Democrats on this. One, We do have to meet people
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: where they are on the economy. I know that we're
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: in this very binary debate where it's either the economy
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: is great and people would only realize it if TikTok
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: and CNN would tell more positive stories about the economy,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: or those things don't matter. And the truth, what I think,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: and I think it was the actual point of the
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: original Jeff Stein, Taylor Ren's piece that has generated so
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: much controversy, is what's happening in social media and in
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: the news is is making the problem of the economy worse,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: but it's not the problem. The problem is that people
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: have real economic anxiety having to do with the fact
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: that they feel like their paychecks are not going far
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: enough to make ends meet because costs of things, particularly
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: like groceries, are up. And it's very elitist to think
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: that if people would just get off TikTok, they would
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden understand that their bank account is great.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: People are not stupid. The economy is the most important
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: thing in their life. whether they can put food on
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: the table for their family, save for college, et cetera.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: So this idea that they could be tricked into thinking
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: it's bad when it's really good is the worst, just
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: the worst impulses of like beltway political consultant thinking. Second,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: stop saying the word inflation. It means nothing to anyone.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Don't go around saying inflation is down. People do not
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: understand that inflation is the rate of increase. They think
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: inflation means costs are higher. So if you say inflation
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: is down, Yet the costs are still high that they
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: think you're lying to them and full of shit. So
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: we need to reframe our agenda around, as you said,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: a series of things that lower costs and raise wages, right?
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Lower costs, higher wages. Like that should be the centerpiece
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: of the whole thing. That should be what is in
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the State of the Union. That should be what we
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: talk about. That should frame the Republican agenda, which you
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: can very credibly do with something that would raise costs.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Cost you more.
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: It will cost you more.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: One of the first things they would do is repeal
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: the Inflation Reduction Act, which would mean that Medicare can
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: no longer negotiate prescription drugs. The price of insulin will
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: go up. They're going to give huge tax cuts to
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: the corporations where they're going to turn around and give
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: it to wealthy investors. And they're going to raise your
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: costs again. They oppose the minimum wage. They oppose allowing
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: workers to organize. That's the agenda we have to assign
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: to them.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: And you are right. And for Biden, again, when people
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: are like, well, then why haven't you done that the
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: last four years? Send me a Democratic House. Send me
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Democratic senators, and we will pass this agenda. Just do
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: it that way.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And this is the short term. You are right. Does
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: it make sense right now for Joe Biden to go
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: out and attack Donald Trump every single event every day?
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Not every event.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: No, but it's also impossible to do when you're president
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: because of the hatchet. And so what do you do instead?
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: You pick a big fight with the Republican House embodied
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: by Mike Johnson, a deeply controversial, largely unpopular figure. People
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: get to know him. that wants to shut down the
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: government to do things that will raise your costs, right?
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: They want to cut Medicare, all those things. Like you
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: have a foil, go use that foil until the moment
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: you can dedicate all of your time to Donald Trump.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Contrast at every moment. If someone asks you how the
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: economy is, you answer by saying how Republicans.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: Will make it worse.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I don't think that Biden has to necessarily
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: win on the question of who will handle the economy
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: better Trump or Biden, right? We know that Obama won
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: re-election in 2012, even though exit polls said people by
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: a few points thought Mitt Romney would be better at
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: handling the economy, but Obama still won. But I think
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: he does need to win in terms of questions like
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: who's on your side, Donald Trump or Joe Biden? Who's
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: fighting for you, Donald Trump or Joe Biden? Who's fighting
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: for the middle class, Donald Trump or Joe Biden? Joe
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Biden wins on those questions. He has a much better
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: shot at winning the election.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: There's this sort of school of thought running around that
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: because Democrats outperformed in the midterms in 2023, despite a
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: bad economy, that the same thing will happen in 2024.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: There is no precedent for that in history. Reason number
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: one is people do not think their senator is in
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: charge of the economy. They may take their anger out
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: on the party in charge if they're unhappy with the economy,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: but there were not people sitting there going, man, do
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Worried about inflation. Is John Fetterman going to go vote
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: for the right thing or Dr.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Oz?
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: That's not how they think about the Senate and the
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: House in any way, shape, or form. That is how
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: they think about the president. And once again, for you
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: coneheads out there, that New York Times poll, they asked people,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: what's more important? Social issues? Specifically, they listed guns, democracy,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: and abortion. And they asked the question that way so
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: that people on both sides would think about it. Because
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: if you could be a right-wing person who cares about
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: guns and abortion, right? Or economic issues like jobs, costs,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: et cetera. Economic issues won by a huge margin and
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: by a much larger margin among people who did not
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: vote in 2022.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: That's the key. I'm sure if you did that with
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: the 2022 electorate or people who showed up in special elections,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: you'd find Democrats caring more about abortion and democracy because
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: these are highly college-educated voters who are probably doing well.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: by and large.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: And they think about politics all the time. And so
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: they think about the other stuff. This has been true
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: for a long time, but if you, like looking at
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: a sliding scale political engagement, the less engaged voters tend
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: to be with political news, like whether they watch cable news,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: whether they listen to podcasts like this, how much they
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: think about politics, if they vote in midterms, they vote
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: in primaries. So the less engaged they are, the more
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: economically concerned they are, right? Compared to the other issues.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: That has been true for a very long time. And
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: it's particularly true in the moment we're currently in.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: All right. Two quick housekeeping notes before we go to break.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Hysteria's Erin Ryan sat down with our pal Chrissy Teigen
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: to talk about her personal journey with abortion, the impact
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: of abortion bans, and the importance of reproductive health advocacy.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: It's a fantastic conversation with Erin and Chrissy. You can
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: watch the full conversation on Hysteria's YouTube page. And also,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is down to our last two live
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: shows of the year. We'll be in El Cajon on
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: December 7th with co-host Sam Sanders and San Jose on
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: December 13th with co-host Adisu Demessi. Grab your tickets at cricket.com
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: slash events. When we come back, Lovett and I talk
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: to Minnesota representative and Democratic presidential candidate, Dean Phillips. Joining
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: me and Lovett in the studio today, he's represented Minnesota's
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: third district since 2019 and is currently running for president
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: in the Democratic primary against incumbent Joe Biden. Representative Dean Phillips,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: welcome to the pod.
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: Good morning, guys. Good to be with you.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: So just want to start by saying I completely share
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: your anxiety about a Biden-Trump race. I do not dismiss
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: the polls. And I'm not sold on the argument that
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: a primary challenge would necessarily weaken Biden in general or
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: the argument that Joe Biden is the only person in
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: the country who could beat Donald Trump. But you have
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: always been very complimentary and supportive of Joe Biden and
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: his agenda. You voted with him 100% of the time.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: So is the only reason you're running because you're worried
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: about the polls and otherwise you're basically like a 54-year-old
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden?
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: Oh, that's painful.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: No.
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: And, you know, there's this kind of conventional wisdom that
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: if you're running in a race that you somehow are
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: opposing somebody or you want to defeat them or you
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: want to demean them or you want to ruin them,
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: that's not what this is about. You know, I Can
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: I start by just telling you a little about my background?
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: Because I think, and here's why this, to answer your question,
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: I think in a way that is more meaningful. You know,
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: I lost my dad in Vietnam when I was six
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: months old. And he had no money growing up in St. Paul, Minnesota.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: His dad, my grandfather, died when he was a little boy.
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: And he had to earn an ROTC scholarship to go
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: to the University of Minnesota Law School. And he sent
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: to Vietnam right before I was born. And he was
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: killed in a helicopter crash and play coup when I
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: was six months old. And it was a few days
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: after the moon landing. And I think about him looking
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: up at the moon and seeing America at its very,
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: very best and looking down at his boots in Vietnam
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: and seeing us at our very, very worst. And I
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: think we're still facing those choices right now. Which America
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: do we want to be? And I got very lucky.
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: My mom was 24 and widowed and I had to
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: live with my great grandparents for three years when I
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: was just a kid. And my mom met and remarried
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: a wonderful man who adopted me into a family filled
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: with blessings. And I got lucky. I was a fortunate son.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: And I've lived on both sides of advantage. And I
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: grew up recognizing how darn lucky I was. And I
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: went into business after a while and had some success.
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: In 2016, I'm watching the election, just like you guys
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: and the whole country. Never imagined in a million years
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: that life would never be the same the next morning.
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: And it was, and I woke up the next morning
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: to my daughter crying in her bedroom and she had
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: just recovered from Hodgkin's lymphoma and she's a gay woman.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: I didn't know that at the time. And, and she
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: was crying. She was in fear. And I did not
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: ever expect in this country as a dad to those
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: daughters of mine that I'd see my daughter so afraid
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: to be an American. And I sat at the breakfast
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: table that morning and I promised them I would do something.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: And I ran for Congress. And I flipped a seat
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: that had been red for 60 years, beat a guy
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: who had won by 14 points that night in 2016,
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: and felt that my father gave his life to the country.
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: And if I was just going to observe and watch
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: and sit back and entrust others and hand the keys,
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: that I wasn't doing my duty. And I didn't raise
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: my daughters to be observers. I raised them to be participants.
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: And that's what I'm doing again. Donald Trump inspired me
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: to get off the couch, to stand up and and resist,
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: but more than resist, to lead. And here he is again,
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: six years later, seven years later, going to return to
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: the White House. At least that's my opinion, supported by
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: the polls. Are they absolute? Absolutely not. I know that.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: And I know you guys have been a little less
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: than complimentary of me, and I understand that too. But
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: I do want you to know, I know, newsflash.
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: This goes out.
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: But I got to tell you, I'm doing what I
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: did in 2020, 17 when I ran for Congress. I'm
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: trying to resist what I consider to be an existential
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: threat to the country. It's not about that. It's about winning.
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: It's about winning and defeating Donald Trump. And in the
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: absence of a candidate in the Democratic primary, better positioned
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: to do so. By the way, it may be me.
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: It might be somebody else. But my contention is it
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: is not Joe Biden. That's all. And that's why I've
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: been asking so many others to enter the race. I
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: called Gretchen Whitmer. I called J.B. Pritzker. I did a
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: public call for Kamala Harris, for Gavin Newsom, anybody. Enter
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: the race. The water's warm. That's what you do in democracy.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: But to sit back and sleepwalk into another 2016 when
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: this time we know, and this time I know, I
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: wasn't going to sit down and shush up and get
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: back in line in an institution that almost requires it.
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: And that's why I'm doing this.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: If we woke up next month There's a new New
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: York Times, CNN poll, a bunch of other polls that
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: suddenly show Joe Biden's numbers have improved and that he's
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: beating Donald Trump. Would you stay in the race?
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: I'm going to stay in the race until early next
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: summer when the polls really matter because, you know, the
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: contention is right now, hey, it's a year ahead of
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: the race. They don't really matter now. Well, they do
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: matter because of this. The filing deadlines are passing quickly.
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: California was yesterday, right? You can't get into this race
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: at a certain point. So I think having a reasonable
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: alternative in the Democratic primary is healthy. It's not about,
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: that's all. So to answer your question very directly, no,
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to drop out if there's a poll
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: that showed, by the way, the most recent approval numbers
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: came out this morning. The lowest in his presidency, again, 37%.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: So do I, first of all, I don't think that
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: hypothetical is going to be a reality, but even if
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: it is, I'm going to hang in there until next
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: summer when the polls, head-to-head polls come out, the ones
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: that really matter. And then if he is ahead of
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump and I'm behind, my goodness, I drop out
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: in a heartbeat and I will do everything I humanly
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: can to to ensure that he is reelected. Conversely, I
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: would ask him if he's still in the race then,
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: that if I'm ahead and he's behind, that he consider
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: doing the same thing because that's what this is about.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: We don't want to be a cult of personality like
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: the other guys. That's the problem right now.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: What are some of the big decisions or actions Biden
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: has taken over the last few years that you disagree with?
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't say there's any actions I've disagreed with. I
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: would say there's so much more to do. And I'll
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: tell you what is completely unaddressed is is affordability. By
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: the way, great macroeconomic numbers again today, and I celebrate
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: him for it. But the fact of the matter is
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: that that is not translating to people who are really
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: suffering right now. With the disparities in income and wealth
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: as graphic and wide and growing as any time in
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: our history, which we all know ultimately leads to the
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: demise of democracies, these are existential threats. It's not just
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump. It's the lack of action in certain areas.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: And again, we can have a long conversation about I
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: support the president. There are areas that I differ with him.
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: There's no question, but there's nothing that he has done
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: to which I've taken exception. I do think there's a
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: lot more to do and it's going to take a
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: new generation.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: And by the way- Do you think he could have
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: done more on affordability?
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: I do believe, yes.
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: Like what?
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: What do you think he could have done?
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: First of all, let me start with the tax code.
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: So I come from Minnesota where we don't tax clothing
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: and groceries. Minnesota progressive. We're blue in a sea of red.
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: You know that. I think starting with the tax code,
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: and by the way, I know the president can't wave
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: a magic wand and get anything done. Got to work
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: with the Congress. And as the second most bipartisan member
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: of Congress, I have some credibility in that area. And
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: so to answer your question, a president cannot wave a
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: magic wand. But when Americans are suffering the way they are,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: red and blue, I do believe there's a way for
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: a president to work with conservatives in this case to
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: do better, starting with the tax code. Why do we afford...
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: deductibility benefits to corporations that we do not afford to
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: hardworking families. The necessities, Minnesota, groceries and clothing. Why do
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: we not allow people to deduct those expenses? The necessities. Obviously,
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: we do mortgage deductibility, mortgage interest, but why not clothing
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: and groceries and childcare, right? Things like that. Donald Trump
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: sent checks directly to Americans.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: As did Joe Biden.
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: And Biden.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: And I know you guys were part of that.
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and starting with Trump. Of course, I voted for both.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: Do I think that's good policy generally? No, but you
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: know what happened? And of course, you know, childhood poverty
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: was decreased by about 50%. Americans had a lot more
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: money in their pockets, many for the first, more than
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: they'd ever had in their bank accounts ever.
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: Those weren't extended because Republicans didn't go.
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: Along with extending them. That's my point. My point is
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: we can't continue. That's not great policy. What we do
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: is raise the foundation. Let's start with housing. The fact
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: is we spend a trillion dollars a year almost on
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: our military, which is another conversation. The fact is we've
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: got the resources to produce enough housing to ensure that
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: everybody has a roof over their heads. As I'm in California,
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: it's appalling. I'm in Manchester, New Hampshire. It's sad. We
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: have veterans sleeping in the street. You know, it's it's
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: this is it's a will. And by the way, that's
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: not a political notion. You know, we could probably create
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: a 20 billion dollar federal housing bank, change some zoning laws,
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: reduce the red tape and have a all hands on
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: deck national housing mission. that wouldn't just provide housing for everybody,
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: would also then reduce the prices for people who are
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: barely able to afford housing because we don't have enough.
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: That's an example of how you lower costs for people.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm just saying that I think that Joe
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Biden is definitely old. I don't know that his inability
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: to solve the affordability crisis is necessarily related to his age.
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: Because- I didn't say it was.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: No, I know that, but you're just talking about new generation.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: And I just think that the truth is the last
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: couple of years, he got a lot done. You guys
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: got a lot done. Sure. And the only reason more
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: wasn't done on affordability is because... Republicans in Congress.
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: I think more could have been done. And look, I
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: was the vice chair of the Problem Solvers Caucus.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Legislation or executive action?
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: I believe more legislation. There are people in Congress. I
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: can count a dozen of them right now in the
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: Problem Solvers Caucus that want to solve these problems. You know,
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: politics gets in the way. I'm not saying I've got
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: the magic wand myself. What I'm saying is there are
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: people in the next generation that will attack these problems
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: in a different manner that I've worked with already on
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: many of the initiatives, by the way, that Biden, that
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: we helped Biden pass. Dusty Johnson, for example. I worked
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: very closely with him on some of the COVID relief packages.
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: I found that we could work together beautifully if people
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: pushed us together. We could have a long conversation, by
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: the way, about the powers that be in Washington that
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: keep us separate by design so we don't challenge the
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: power structures. I'm not here. This is an issue of winning,
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: you guys. This is not an issue of policy. It's
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: not an issue of principles. It is an issue of
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: winning right now, primarily.
• 50:14
  Speaker 7: But that's why I've been sort of- How's he going
• 50:17
  Speaker 7: to win?
• 50:17
  Speaker 6: I've been consuming, well, we can get back to that.
• 50:19
  Speaker 7: I've been consuming a lot of Dean Phillips content.
• 50:22
  Speaker 6: And here's what I think is confusing.
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, we don't have too much yet, so.
• 50:25
  Speaker 6: No, I feel like I got a good sample.
• 50:26
  Speaker 7: But you talk about this need to pass the torch
• 50:32
  Speaker 7: and you want, there's all these problems that we could
• 50:34
  Speaker 7: solve if we could just come together. Even, you know,
• 50:37
  Speaker 7: you told Scott Galloway, you know, what is the motivating
• 50:39
  Speaker 7: thing for you? It's loss and gratitude, which is exactly
• 50:43
  Speaker 7: what I think. It was remarkable because Joe Biden, as
• 50:47
  Speaker 7: a candidate, also motivated by loss and gratitude. You talk
• 50:50
  Speaker 7: about the need for bipartisanship. I find it hard to
• 50:53
  Speaker 7: argue you could have a more bipartisan figure than Joe Biden,
• 50:57
  Speaker 7: someone who ran, who said to restore the soul of
• 50:59
  Speaker 7: the country, and who has, despite, you know, a recalcitrant
• 51:03
  Speaker 7: and radical stance, Republican turn gotten things like the chips
• 51:09
  Speaker 7: bill done got an infrastructure bill done goes to Kentucky
• 51:13
  Speaker 7: with Mitch McConnell tries to model best practices for how
• 51:15
  Speaker 7: to talk to people one of the reasons you voted
• 51:17
  Speaker 7: with them 100% of the time is because you were
• 51:19
  Speaker 7: able to vote for a bunch of bipartisan proposals, so
• 51:21
  Speaker 7: if you want to talk about winning and say hey,
• 51:23
  Speaker 7: we need somebody younger and we need somebody who Won't
• 51:26
  Speaker 7: have as bad a polls fine, but I feel like
• 51:29
  Speaker 7: you're searching for a policy case because I The next
• 51:33
  Speaker 7: question after why are you running is where do you
• 51:35
  Speaker 7: differ from Joe Biden?
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: Let me start then. Let me answer the question. First
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: of all, you're doing exactly what the Biden administration is
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: doing right now. We're talking about the past. Great accomplishments,
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: you guys. Wonderful accomplishments. I voted for the infrastructure bill. Frankly,
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: I don't think it would have gotten passed without the
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: Problem Solvers Caucus. I'm proud of that work. This is
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: not about that. That's the past. I'm talking about the future.
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: But when you talk about leadership, is there a Republican
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: in the White House at that cabinet table? No, we
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: need a bipartisan cabinet because if we don't, it doesn't
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: matter if we have a Democrat or a Republican in
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: the White House in the future. we're going to have
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: a disaster of division in this country.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, we had a bipartisan cabinet in the Obama administration.
• 52:08
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Love Ray LaHood.
• 52:09
  Speaker 7: Ray LaHood was great. It's great to have a Republican
• 52:12
  Speaker 7: transportation secretary.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: Bob Gates?
• 52:14
  Speaker 8: Nah.
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: But let me talk about what, you know, by the way,
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: I think the president has led the country ably. He
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: has not restored the soul of the nation. And I
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: believe that takes a new generation. This is a policy issue.
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: It is a bipartisan cabinet. It is ensuring that every
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: American has their voice represented in their White House. If not,
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: we're going to have worse and worse division. I want to,
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: I want to create a youth cabinet. I want to
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: have a common sense czar instead of just black tie
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: affairs that you guys know very well.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: What's the common sense czar do?
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: Common sense czar is going to look at every single
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: government program agency and expenditure and make propositions to be
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: more efficient. By the way, if you want to talk
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: about responsibility, when's the last president that we had in
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: the United States that had a balanced budget? We're spending
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: $ 2 trillion a year more than we're taking in, you guys.
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: We're going to spend $ 800 billion a year on debt service,
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: all for the past. We have almost no discretionary dollars
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: for the future. And nobody's talking about it.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: You know, a budget agreement goes, you're going to have to,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: we're going to demand raising revenues if we're going to
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: do cuts. And Republicans have decided absolutely not on raising revenues.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: For 10 years, 15 years.
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: You're going to keep redirecting this to policy. And I'd
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: love to talk about it. I'm going to keep redirecting
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: it to winning. And if we don't win, first of all,
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: I don't think if it's a Biden-Harris ticket right now,
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: they will lose if the election's today. I think we
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: lose the Senate and we may well lose the House.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I agree. that Joe Biden running against Donald Trump is
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: a risky proposition in 2024.
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: Hugely risky. I get it. Why wouldn't we have an alternative?
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: The question is, why are you less risky?
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: Why am I less risky?
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Is it just your age? That's what I'm saying. That's
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: why I was looking back at my first question. Is
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: it just your age?
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: I get it.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: No.
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: Look, I told you my life story. Look, you guys
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: have been unkind to me on the show and I
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: respect you for it because this is the first time
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: we've met, right?
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: And I told you my life story. You can think
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: of me what you want. You know, I've tried to
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: live a life of helping people, sharing success. Business is
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: a means to an end. I believe that when money
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: is like manure, if you stack it up, it stinks.
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: And if you spread it out, it fertilizes. That's my ethos.
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: I got lucky. You know, I want to share the
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: same good fortune with every kid in this country right
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: now that doesn't have a damn chance. And I don't
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: see the people in Washington who have been there for
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: 50 years being able to do it. And I see
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump about to win an election again when we
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: know what we're walking into. And the difference is this.
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: I've led businesses. I've been the board chair of a
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: health system in Minnesota, one of the largest. I've been
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: a regent at a university. I've been the board director
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: of a charitable foundation. I've served three terms in Congress.
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: I was elected by my peers as a member of
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: House leadership. And I'm the ranking member of the Middle East,
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: North Africa, Central Asia Subcommittee on Foreign Affairs. I have
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: broad experience. Is it as deep in public service as
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: President Biden? Of course not. He's been doing it 50 years.
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: I was three years old when he became a senator.
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: But my life experience, my professional experience, my personal experience
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: is broad. I believe in common sense and I believe
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: in pragmatism. I believe in inclusion and I believe in
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: ending this nonsense. And I believe Washington is just not
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: listening to people. And by the way, anybody who argues
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: that it is a wise strategy to just allow President
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: Biden to be the only one competing in the Democratic
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: primary when he is losing in every poll to the
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: most dangerous man in our history, It is just a
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: different opinion that I have. I think that is foolish.
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: I think it's delusional. And I think it's asinine considering
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: what's at risk. I don't know why there's so much
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: consternation about practicing democracy. It's as simple as that.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: No, we don't have consternation about that.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: Then what's the consternation?
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: You're the guy to do it. That's it.
• 55:45
  Speaker 6: That's the issue.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: That's why we're here.
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: Hey, the water's warm, you guys. Where's everybody? Why won't
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: they jump in?
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: I don't know either.
• 55:51
  Speaker 7: And by the way, I do think that it is
• 55:54
  Speaker 7: honorable to me that, You're absolutely right. A ton of
• 55:58
  Speaker 7: people in private talking about how worried they are. They
• 56:01
  Speaker 7: think Joe Biden seems like he's too old. And then
• 56:03
  Speaker 7: in public, they haven't gotten behind you or behind anybody.
• 56:06
  Speaker 7: There's a lot of governors who you've talked to, who
• 56:08
  Speaker 7: you thought should have gotten in that didn't get in.
• 56:10
  Speaker 7: And you're out here doing it. You're making this argument.
• 56:12
  Speaker 7: You think it's important to have that conversation. And we've
• 56:14
  Speaker 7: talked about this, that putting Joe Biden through the paces
• 56:17
  Speaker 7: over the next few months doesn't necessarily weaken him. Anything
• 56:20
  Speaker 7: can prove that he's up to the job. But forget
• 56:23
  Speaker 7: talking about the sort of the broader context of why
• 56:25
  Speaker 7: people didn't jump in or not.
• 56:27
  Speaker 6: You're here.
• 56:28
  Speaker 7: And what would you say to a voter who says, OK,
• 56:31
  Speaker 7: I'm concerned that Joe Biden seems as though he's too old,
• 56:35
  Speaker 7: but I can't take a chance on someone who's only
• 56:38
  Speaker 7: been elected in a suburban Minneapolis district that leans Democratic.
• 56:43
  Speaker 7: I need to know that I'm going to put my
• 56:45
  Speaker 7: if the goal here is to win, if the question
• 56:48
  Speaker 7: here is electability, why on earth would I take a
• 56:50
  Speaker 7: chance on someone who's never run outside of this one
• 56:54
  Speaker 7: specific place and is untested on the national stage.
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: How many presidents in recent memory would, did Bill Clinton
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: run anywhere besides Arkansas? Were his numbers even as high
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: as mine right now, just one month into my, I mean, guys,
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: come on, you know the truth about this. This is,
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: first of all, I can put together a coalition that
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: I don't think any Democrat we've maybe discussed or might
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: be on your minds that can. The independent coalition, the
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: moderate Republican never Trumper coalition. By the way, I flipped
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: the A red district that had been in Republican hands
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: since 1958 beat a guy who had won by 14
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: by 12. I know how to do this.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: But it was a D plus eight district. I mean,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: it was a lean Democratic race. Guys, you can do
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: all the butts in the world. It was held by
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Republicans for 60 years. Thank God you flipped it. All
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you is I've won. I've run in three races.
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: I've won them all. I've won in primaries. The president
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: has lost the ability to build a coalition of the
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: people needed to win a general election. That's my contention.
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: I may be wrong. The data says I'm right. But furthermore,
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: that's all I'm saying. Come May, June of next year,
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: let's just see what the head-to-head polls say. If I'm
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: ahead of Donald Trump and President Biden is behind, what
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: would you guys say then? And we're the only two
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: in the race. Would you say that I'm the better
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: choice or he is still? But answer that.
• 58:08
  Speaker 8: Yeah, no.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Well, you're talking about May or June. At that point,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: most of the delegates will have been awarded. So one
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: of you will be the winner. At that point, I'd
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: say whoever got the most delegates.
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: But just look, it's a reasonable question. If let's say
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: I'm not in the lead with delegates, he is, let's
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: say he's still in the race, and let's say head-to-head
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: polls come out that show me pretty handily beating Donald
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: Trump and the Biden-Harris ticket losing. Would you say that
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: it's still best to nominate Joe Biden to be the nominee?
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't say that it's a good idea
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: to upend the will of all the millions of Democratic
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: primary voters who just voted already and said that they
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: wanted Joe Biden instead of you.
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: I think the way you have to beat Joe Biden
• 58:48
  Speaker 6: is by beating Joe Biden.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: I'm just asking you guys a simple question. I'd be nervous.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: I'd be very nervous at that point, but I'd be like,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: those are the rules that we.
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: Set in the primary. And therein lies, that is exactly
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: why Democrats are struggling nationally right now. We're not nominating
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: the people who can win. You guys. We're not nominating
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: the people who can win. And if we want to
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: keep coronating, if we want to keep coronating, well, that's
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: what we're doing, guys. I'm telling you.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: It's not coronating to award the Democratic nomination to the
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: person who won the most votes and the most delegates.
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: And by the way, John, the reason he will be
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: winning those delegates is because there's an institution— that does
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: a pre-coronate. You guys know this. I know you know this.
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: I've discovered this in the last month, how this works.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: I was part of the problem. You guys know how
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: this works. How does it work? You know how it works.
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: There are people that want to pre-coronate that hand the
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: kind of the keys, if you will. It was true
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: in 2008. Thank goodness Barack Obama entered and thank goodness.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we ran against these guys.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you. But we spent a year figuring out the
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: rules in every single state to make sure that we
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: could win the delegates and not just tell people, I
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: think Barack Obama is going to have a better chance
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: of beating Republicans than Hillary Clinton. So go with him
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: instead of the delegates.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: What I'm hearing from you guys is that I should
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: have just sat down and stood in line and just
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: let this happen.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 8: No.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: And that's fine.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 6: And I respect it.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 7: If that's how you feel, I totally respect that. I
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 7: think we've got to practice democracy. You're here because we're
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 7: talking to you. You're here because we want to hear
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 7: from you.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: We want to hear your case.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: And if Joe Biden was here, we'd be like, hey, man,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: how are you going to win?
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: Well, good luck getting him in front.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Of the oppressor, you guys. Maybe you can talk to
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: him again.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: You're here, he's not. I know. Guys, this is not
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: a place I expected to be. It's not a place
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: I had anticipated. I put together a presidential campaign two
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: weeks before I announced, and I've been at it for
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: a month. I think we need more participation. We have
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: a crisis of participation. I think it's good to have options.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: There is a primary no matter if I'm in it
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: or not. There's Marianne Williamson. Doesn't get any attention, right?
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: There is going to be a primary. And if something
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: happened to Joe Biden in the next number of months,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: the only other candidate in the race who would accrue
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: delegates is Marianne Williamson. That's just the truth. Why should
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: we not, especially for a man his age, actuarially alone,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: why would we not have another candidate who's able and
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: competent and prepared. That's all.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: I think it's good, but I think it's great to
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: have another candidate. What we're trying to ask you is,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: you have this, and you know this, you have this
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: monumental challenge.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Which is to try to beat a sitting president with like,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: and we can talk.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: About the rules. I'm in this to beat the last
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: president who is an unmitigated disaster for America that our
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: current president will not beat. Every single poll is saying
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: the same thing. It could change. And if it does,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: I will be the first If he is better positioned,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: come next summer, no matter what the delegates say right now,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: if he's better positioned, I will get behind him 100%.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: I campaigned for him last time. He has been in
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: my house for a fundraiser that I held for the
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: man in 2011.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, guys, this is not adversarial. This is existential.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: And that is why I'm running.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 6: And by the way, you keep coming back to saying,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 6: There should be a race. We want it. Why would
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 6: there not be a race?
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: You're here.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 6: You're in it. We're just talking about why you should win.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 6: But we're not saying you should drop out today. We're
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 6: not saying, no one, no one.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious about the strategy.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: I'm telling you again, telling you again. My strategy is
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: to compete in every state I can. I'll be on 45,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: I think, to 47 state ballots. Not an easy task
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: because you guys know as well as anybody.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: It's hard.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: There's a system designed to prevent people from getting onto
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: the ballot. And it works really well. It's terribly expensive.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: I've got to spend millions of dollars and a lot
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: of staff hours doing it. I'm going to compete. But
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: the most important part is those head-to-head polls. This is
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: about beating Donald Trump and bringing the country to the future.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: If it's Joe Biden, come next summer, so be it.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: I will get behind him. But conversely, if those polls
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: and over the next number of months I introduce myself,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: there is affection, there is growing support, and the polls
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: show me beating Donald Trump, isn't that a good thing
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: for Democrats and for the country? That's my contention and
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: that's my strategy. And I'm going to have a lot
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: of policy propositions, guys, that are going to be, I think,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: very helpful to all Americans. You're going to see a
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: lot rolling out soon. Everything from social security to affordability,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: cannabis and psilocybin. There's so much that we have to do.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Just want to touch on maybe the biggest issue everyone's
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: dealing with today, and it's bled into our politics as well,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: is the war in Gaza.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: You said a few weeks ago, you're not there yet
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: on conditioning aid to Israel? Are you now or why not?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Or where are you on that?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm Jewish and I want to be the first
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: Jewish president in the United States of America. And I
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: want to be the one that signs documents that helps
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: establish a Palestinian state because more than a Jewish American,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: I'm a human and I'm sick and disgusted by the
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: cycle of bloodshed perpetuated by the same generations that have
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: been doing it the same way forever. And what I
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: saw on October 7th was the most horrifying, despicable acts
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: of violence against human beings I've seen in my lifetime,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: the worst pogrom against Jewish people since the Holocaust. And
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: I have to say that as the ranking member of
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: the Middle East subcommittee, I've sat with Bibi Netanyahu twice
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: this year. I've looked him in the eye and here's
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: what I told him. I said, when I was a
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: boy growing up in America, Israel was the David among Goliaths.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: And as a result, we You saw this great affection
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: from the progressives in America for Israel because it was
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: the underdog. We progressives love the underdog. That's our job.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: That's our ethos. And I said, Mr. Netanyahu, because of
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: your policies over the last 30 years, in no small part,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: Israel is now perceived as the Goliath next to a David.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: And he interrupted me. He said, that's just not true.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: I said, I'm not saying the facts. I'm saying the
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: perception is, is that Israel is now the Goliath next
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: to a David. And you're going to lose progressives. You're
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: going to lose this relationship. You're going to lose support
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: from the world. And as a result, it's going to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: affect all of us, the diaspora around the world. Little
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: did I know that just some months later, October 7th
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: would happen. And the prime minister of Israel is now
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: putting my children at risk and us at risk. And
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: it's the first time I remember that feeling of being
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: unsafe in my own country. And the fact that personal
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: security and ballot access are the two biggest line items
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: in my budget right now, in my campaign. is a
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: really sad commentary on democracy. And he has got to go.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: Israel has got to choose a different government and a
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: different path. The settlement policy is abhorrent. Hamas is far
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: more abhorrent than Netanyahu. They are the enemy of Israel.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: They're the enemy of Palestinians. Abu Mazen, same thing. I
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: want to see new leadership from the West Bank to
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: the West Wing because he's got to go too. The
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: pay to slay policy is despicable. He is corrupt. I
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: want to see Palestinians actually choose a government of peace.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: I want to see Israelis choose a government of peace.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: And I want to see our generation be the ones
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: that finally affect it. Because until we do there, I
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: won't feel safe, my kids won't feel safe, and the
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: Jewish community around the world won't feel safe. And by
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: the way, my Muslim brothers and sisters are feeling the
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: same pain right now. These three kids of Palestinian descent
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: that were shot in Vermont, This is a time for
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: not more division. It's a time to actually take each
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: other's hands. My relationship with Rashida Tlaib is one that
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: I'm taking a lot of heat for. But I know
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: in her heart she wants the same things. I wish
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: she said different things about Israel. Probably the way she
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: wishes I said different things about Palestine. But we have
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: an affection and appreciation for one another because if we
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: can't figure this out as human beings, there's no way
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: we're gonna do it in the Middle East. So anyway,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: back to the point about conditioning aid. I wanna see
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: Hamas eliminated. I wanna see a peacekeeping force in Gaza
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: that is not including the US and Israel. And I
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: wanna see a unified multinational task force to take out Hamas.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: We can't entrust Israel to do this anymore. It's not fair,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: it's not reasonable, and it won't be effective. I think
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: the Gulf states have to step up. I think we
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: should also be conditioning aid to Egypt, which we are
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: to some degree, but not enough. And at some point,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: if Netanyahu continues and the policies continue, that actually affect
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: peace in the Middle East. And more importantly, if they
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: start affecting Americans, which it is, then yes, at some
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: point we have to condition aid. I'm not there yet,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: but yes, the answer is I want to represent the
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: United States of America. My job is to get hostages
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: out of Gaza. We have nine Americans still sitting there.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: And my job is to keep Americans safe. We are
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: becoming unsafe because I believe of the circumstances half a
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: world away.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: So why not? We condition aid to just about every
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: country that we send aid to except Israel. We have
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: a supplemental request coming up that you're going to vote on.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Why not say this aid is conditioned on Israel not
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: committing human rights violations, which is just a law that
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: we abide by anyway.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: Anyway, exactly. It's already there.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: No more settler violence, right? We don't want American weapons
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: in the hands of settlers. There's been some reports that's up.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: And a two-state solution, as you want, because Bibi just
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: yesterday is telling right-wing members of his government, only one
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: is going to prevent a two-state solution. So why not
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: condition this next tranche of aid.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: Because Israel has an acute need for support right now
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: as the only Jewish majority nation in the world. There
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: are 200 majority Christian nations. There are 150 or so
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: majority Muslim nations. There is one Jewish majority nation in
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: the world. And look, when those boats fleeing the Holocaust
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: came to America 80 years ago, if we had accepted
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: them in the beginning, I might say, you know what?
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: There's another place that Jews can always take refuge in,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: the United States of America. But the fact of the
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: matter is, as of right now, I think there's only one,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: and that's Israel. And I'm growing concerned about our nation
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: and its hospitality towards the other. That's true of Muslims
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: and Jews and people of all colors and races and
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: backgrounds and countries of origin. And I think our aid
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: to Israel should continue. And I think Israelis have to
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: make a choice soon for a whole new direction, the
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: same way I think the United States has to. We
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: are We're going to be in some desperate times if
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: we continue down these same paths, guys. And I think
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: this is a metaphor for not just change in the U.S.,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: but also change around the world.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 7: But even though you recognize, as someone who supports Israel,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 7: believes in Israel's not only right to exist, but it's
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 7: important to exist, you believe that for Israel's own security
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 7: and safety, it needs to make certain changes.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: Yes, it has to.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 6: And yet the U.S.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 7: Should not use its power and its aid as a
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 7: means to extract those changes by making it conditional. You
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 7: would like to give them the money and then put
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 7: the pressure on separately. And I don't really understand that.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: Well, I believe that they have an acute need. It's
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: not dissimilar from Ukraine right now. And in an acute need,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's the time to start conditioning. Yes,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: do I care deeply about the loss of innocent lives
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 4: on both sides of this horrible conflict?
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: Can I stand seeing Gazan babies killed? No, it's horrifying.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: And I'm sick of it. And I'm disgusted by Hamas.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: And frankly, I'm deeply troubled by Benjamin Netanyahu. And I
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: think he now has an incentive to continue this war,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: not to end it for reasons you guys surely know.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: And I do believe the United States should start using
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: its levers of power economically, diplomatically, kinetically, in ways that
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: we have not done so effectively for many, many, many years.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: So the question is, I just don't, the focus is
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: on Israel. We are supplying aid to countries all around
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: the world who commit the most atrocious crimes against humanity,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: who are corrupt. And I do believe we need to
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: comprehensively assess how we use our foreign aid dollars, not
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: to mention military support, yes. But I don't think at
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: this very moment we should condition the aid until we
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: give Israelis a chance to choose a new path and, frankly,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: equally importantly, Palestinians. And that means investment in civil society.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: That means an all-hands-on-deck effort to provide security and safety
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: for both Gazans and those who live in the West Bank.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: They've not had a chance to vote since 2006. There's
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: a whole generation that has been raised without even the
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 4: chance to choose their leadership. And Israel chose a man
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 4: who said he'd keep them safe. And the intelligence and
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: military failures on October 7th are reprehensible. I'm just saying, guys,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: I'm a Jewish American. I care deeply about my Muslim
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: brothers and sisters. I care deeply about Israel. I'm horrified
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: by Israel's policies. I'm horrified by Jewish terrorism against Palestinians
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: in the West Bank. I'm horrified by a settlement policy
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: that absolutely has inspired this perpetual hatred, but I'm also
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: optimistic about the possibility of working with my colleagues like
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: Rashida Tlaib and with the Palestinian American community and with
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: my friends and even foes around the world to bring
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 4: a better future for everybody. And we've got to start
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: by change. The same people doing it the same way
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: you guys is not going to happen. That's how I feel.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 6: So, uh, when I was in college, I had a Brita, uh, filter.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 7: Um, And what I would do is I would buy
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 7: the cheapest vodka available and I would put it through
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 7: the Brita filter and nicer vodka would come out.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 6: Are you aware of this? Are you aware that this works?
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: No, it's, and what a brilliant, I'm amazed Brita didn't
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: make that like one of their key marketing campaigns. Take
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 4: your pop-up vodka and make it into Belvedere.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 7: Is what you're doing on some level, like Biden has
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 7: these liabilities, people perceive him to be a certain way.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 7: And what we need to do is find a way
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 7: to change the brand. And you're trying to find a
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 7: way to put a better brand on a lot of
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 7: the kind of policies that Joe Biden would pursue.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: That's a really good point. The answer is yes. My
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: background is in marketing. There's no question. And that's how
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: I won an election in 2018 against all odds. That's
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: how I intend to win this election. And most of all, yes,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: I'm so glad you brought it up. Democrats have to repackage.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: We have to rebuild a brand. What do we stand for?
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: We have to repackage it. We've got to choose words
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: that make sense to Americans that aren't so hoity-toity or
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: divisive or, frankly, phrases that simply don't work. There is
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: an opportunity, I believe, with packaging and articulation of key
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: principles that, yes, can be invitational, not confrontational. Why is
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: a good man who has accomplished so much losing to
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 4: the most dangerous man in American history right now? Why?
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 5: Why?
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: Why? How is it possible that Democrats right now are
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: not easily winning national elections? How is it possible that
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: we barely.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, we won the popular vote in the last
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: however many elections now.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 4: But we won by 40... Joe Biden won by about 40,000
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 4: some votes. Do you guys know this?
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: No, of course.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: My point is this, guys. I mean, I believe in
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 4: America more deeply than some do right now. And I
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: believe that Trumpers... are just waiting to be invited by
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: a party that right now is offensive to them. Offensive
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: to them, guys. And by the way, I have a
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: great deal of animus towards Donald Trump. And I was
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: in the House chamber on January 6th when he subjected us,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: all of us, to the insurrection. I have animus towards him.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: I do not have animus towards most of those who
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: support him. They're angry, like a lot of Democrats are
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: angry right now, because they can't afford their lives. They
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: feel unheard, mistreated, unappreciated. There's a geographic divide where Democrats
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: are not even talking about rural Americans right now. We're
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: not even trying to show up in places where people
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: are actually wanting us to. And by the way, one
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: of the great joys of my campaign is showing up
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: in places where people aren't that thrilled when I walk in.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: And by the time I leave, they're surprised. Why don't
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: we do that? Why don't we repackage, repromote, rearticulate, reimagine,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: be that great democratic party that is inclusive, literally, not
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: just in our verbalization. And I got to tell you,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: I think the root of this is money. I think
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: that In Washington, when my members of Congress are spending $ 10, 000
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 4: per week collectively raising money, who do we raise it from?
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 4: The wealthy and well-connected. Who's not being addressed and listened
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: to and approached? Everybody else. And as the only member
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: of Congress who takes no PAC money and no lobbyist money,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 4: no member money, and doesn't have a leadership PAC, I
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 4: find it hard to find colleagues to have dinner with
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 4: in Washington because they're so busy going to PAC events,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: getting the white envelopes with the checks. And you've got
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: tens of millions of Americans, Democrats and Republicans saying, what
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: the hell is going on here?
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: What the heck is going on?
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: So this isn't just campaign finance reform.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: Thanks. It is.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 8: It is.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 4: But I'm, but I'm just saying that I'm, I'm understanding. Yeah.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: And look at guys, I was a, I was part
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: of the problem for years. I was the supporter. I
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: was the enabler. I was the believer in a system
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: that is working against Americans and, ostensibly the Democratic Party
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: that should be promoting debate, promoting participation, not suppressing, is
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: doing just the opposite. Guys, I'm just telling you the
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: truth and I'm frustrated by it. I still have faith
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: we can change it, but look at when you're disenfranchising
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: New Hampshire voters saying their delegates won't be seated, that's
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: suppressing voters. When you make it almost impossible to get
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: on the ballots in states, that's suppressing candidates. And when
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: you say proactively there will be no debates in the
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: Democratic primary, no matter who enters, That's suppressing conversation. That
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: is dangerous. And to your point, yes, it's time for change.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: It's time to repackage. It's time to invite and use
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: invitation instead of condemnation. It's not working.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 7: Do you think Joe Biden has an age perception problem?
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 7: It seems to me, my sort of view of this
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 7: from 30,000 feet is Joe Biden does seem very old.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 7: But by all accounts, he is an interlocutor in meetings
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 7: who is strong. He is fully up to the job
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 7: mentally and emotionally. On the other hand, Trump seems more energetic.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 7: but he's mentally and emotionally unfit. Do you agree with
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 7: that assessment?
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 4: I think that's a totally fair assessment. The sad truth
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: is these images seem fully baked. By the way, how
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 4: can you talk about President Biden's age and not talk
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 4: about President Trump's age? It's ridiculous. Yet the media doesn't
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: do it that way, of course. And yes, I've not
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: seen evidence of the president's cognitive decline. The country is
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: telling all of us that they do. And by the way,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: that is my whole point here is, I've been trying
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: to help this administration. My job on the House Democratic
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: leadership team was to promote the president's agenda and help
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 4: package it. And Bidenomics is an unmitigated disaster. You guys
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 4: know this. We tried. It failed. But to your point, yes,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: my contention is that Americans' perception is going to make
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: it impossible for him to win. And we can spend
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: the next number of months talking about why or what
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 4: he could do. But the fact of the matter is
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 4: the numbers keep moving in the wrong direction. So that
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 4: is exactly how I feel. And Donald Trump is... cognitively ill-prepared.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 4: His character is appalling. He has no empathy. He's a narcissist.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 4: He's unable, incompetent, a weak human being and cannot come
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 4: anywhere near the White House. And we should mobilize to
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 4: ensure we beat him, period.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 7: You asked it rhetorically, you know, why is it that
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 7: we're so close? Why is it that someone's so manifestly unfit?
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 7: And I think what the core of what this conversation
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 7: is about is some of that can very fairly be
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 7: laid at the feet of Democrats and Joe Biden. But
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 7: a great deal of it are economic conditions, cultural conditions,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 7: a media environment that you can't lay at the feet
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 7: of Democrats and that would come for any Democrat anywhere.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 7: And the idea that what we need, that you can't
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 7: have a Democrat run for president without facing the Republican
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 7: machine propaganda apparatus, noise and onslaught.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 6: And I think sometimes people look for that.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 7: Andrew Yang looks for that. They want center left or
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 7: centrist policies without all the political baggage. But the problem
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 7: is the political baggage comes once you're within striking distance
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 7: of actual power. And it seems to me that at
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 7: the core of this, you are asking for us to
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 7: switch from what is one big risk, which is Joe Biden,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 7: to another risk, which is you. And I think what,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 7: this is not about whether or not you have the
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 7: right to pursue that, but I think the question is,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 7: can you make that case?
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 4: And right now- You're saying in the head to head
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: matchup against Donald Trump, that I'm a bigger risk than
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 4: And then that, then that is just the fun. And
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 4: by the way, I mean, we don't know.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: We're all sitting here trying to figure it out.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: And that's exactly, and that's exactly, and that's exactly, I'm
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: glad we're having, that's exactly the root of this whole conversation.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: And that's exactly why I offered myself to be the
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: alternative because my belief is it's just the opposite. I
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 4: believe in 2020 and Joe Biden was the only one
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 4: that probably could have beat Donald Trump, and he did
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 4: by 40,000 votes in a few states. Ronald Reagan, remember
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: his old line was, are you better off now than
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: you were four years ago? Do you think Joe Biden
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 4: is better positioned now? Do you think Joe Biden is
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: better positioned now than he was four years ago when
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 4: he won by 40,000 votes in a few states? Intuitively,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 4: I say no. The national polls, the battleground polls- No,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: I don't think Donald Trump is better positioned either.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: Neither of them are better positioned.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 4: But then why are the numbers saying that he is?
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 4: Why are the same polls that basically predicted the outcome
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: of the recent elections? Why are those suddenly right, but
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 4: the ones showing that Trump is going to beat Biden?
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 4: They're not wrong. But back to the point, you guys.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: It's just a difference of opinion. If you think that
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are better positioned to beat
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump, then I will be by next summer, and
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 4: time will tell. And by the way, that's all I'm
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 4: asking for, is come meet me. Challenge me. Ask me questions.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 4: Give me a chance to practice democracy. Let me make
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 4: my case. Let's see what the polls say in summer
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: next year. And then Democrats will ultimately be able to
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: make a choice at the convention about who they believe
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 4: is best positioned to prevent not just tragedy, but I
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 4: think an existential threat to the entire democracy. And by
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 4: the way, I may be wrong. And if I am,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 4: I'll admit it. And if the president is wrong, I
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 4: hope he does too. And that's all I'm asking for.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: Dean Phillips, thanks for showing up. Thanks for showing up
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: and answering our questions. And the reason we were digging
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: into the policy stuff is because for what you just said,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: we wanted to hear you make your case.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: Well, there's a lot more. If you have me back,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 4: I'll talk policy because I'm working on a lot of
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 4: propositions that I think will be very compelling, not just
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 4: to Democrats, but to Republicans. And back to your one
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 4: more thing, packaging. Until Democrats start unifying behind the need
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 4: to create a brand, what it stands for, articulate it
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 4: and start inviting people. We will not succeed in the
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 4: way that I know we can, and we will. And
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: change is coming.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: You have ideas on that?
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: I have a few ideas on how to package.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 6: Call ice cream gelato? Is that the plan?
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: No, it's just the opposite. I'm a beer candidate, not
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 4: a wine candidate.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 6: Oh, but gelato?
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: Gelato is a fancy word for ice cream.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 6: That's all I wanted to hear.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: That's all I wanted to hear.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: Can I tell you a quick story about that quick?
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 4: All right. So you're going to like this story. So
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: So Talenti was started by my partner, Josh Hochschuler. He
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: opened a gelato shop in Dallas 20 years ago. It
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 4: was failing miserably. He gets an order for gelato from
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 4: his grocery store down the street. He could not afford
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: to make a pint, like a Ben & Jerry's and
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 4: Haagen-Dazs pint. Could not afford the package. So he went
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: to a surplus store and found a thousand clear plastic
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 4: jars with a screw-up lid that he could just put
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 4: a little label on. So the fact that he had
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 4: no resources literally created one of the most beautiful ice
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 4: cream brands in the world. He had no money and
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 4: had to buy the closeout clear jar. And the brand
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: starts doing well. We become his partner in about 2012.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 4: And we introduced a product called Dulce de Leche, thinking
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 4: that gelato had to be fancy. And this gets back
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 4: to democratic brand building. We thought a fancy name would
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 4: be the best. And the brand sold. It was like
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: our 10th best-selling item. It didn't do very well. And
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: then we changed it to sea salt caramel. And it
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 4: became our number one selling flavor. Get me.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: You got me there. That's my favorite.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: So here's the moral of the story. Democrats have to
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: start talking in sea salt caramel terms. And until we do,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 4: I think it's going to be really hard to win
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 4: elections the way that I think we should be and
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 4: we will be. And that's the moral of the story.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 8: All right.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: Sea salt caramel. Dean Phillips, thanks for stopping by Pod
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: Save America.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 4: Hey, guys, thanks for the invitation. Keep the faith and
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: keep in touch.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: All right, take care.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Dean Phillips for joining, and everyone have a
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: great weekend. We'll talk to you next week.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: Bye, everyone.
• 1:22:59
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