Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #292 Guest Host Patrick Pursley with Eric Blackmon

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#292 Guest Host Patrick Pursley with Eric Blackmon · Wrongful Conviction

0:00
Speaker 1: I'm Jason Flamm. Since I began recording Rafel Conviction back
0:03
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, I've interviewed hundreds of xanneries, but unfortunately
0:08
Speaker 1: that's just the tip of the criminal injustice Iceberg. So
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Speaker 1: I've invited new voices to host the show, including people
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Speaker 1: who have personally experienced the horror of that system. This
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Speaker 1: is one of those interviews.
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Speaker 2: It's July fourth, twenty oh two, and thirty six year
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Speaker 2: old Tony Cox is meeting up with Richard Rico, the
0:29
Speaker 2: owner of Fat Alberts, a restaurant on the West Side
0:33
Speaker 2: of Chicago. They lead the restaurant together. A regal turns
0:37
Speaker 2: to lock the door behind him, and that's when he
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Speaker 2: hears two gunshots. Tony Cox is shot dead. A regal
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Speaker 2: stance at a close distance to the shooters, but he
0:48
Speaker 2: doesn't recognize him. As they flee to scene, two women
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Speaker 2: witness the crime from their cars. Both of them called
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Speaker 2: nine to one to one, and both would later be
0:57
Speaker 2: asked identify the shooters from photograph, even though they barely had.
1:02
Speaker 3: Time to see them.
1:04
Speaker 2: Chicago police officers Gregory Jones, Eugene Schletter, and James Sanchez
1:09
Speaker 2: investigated the murder and they believe it had to be
1:12
Speaker 2: gang related because Tony Cox was a member of the
1:16
Speaker 2: local gang, the New Breeds. At first, they investigated New
1:20
Speaker 2: Breed members but made no arrest, but within a month
1:24
Speaker 2: of the crime, for reasons they are still unknown, they
1:28
Speaker 2: turned their attention to Eric Blackman. On the day of
1:31
Speaker 2: the murder, Eric was hosting a barbecue and between twenty
1:36
Speaker 2: and forty people saw him there. Two months later, in September,
1:40
Speaker 2: Eric showed up at court to deal with the unrelated
1:43
Speaker 2: misdemeanor charge, but the police arrested them there on the
1:47
Speaker 2: spot as he entered the courthouse. Despite having dozens of
1:51
Speaker 2: alibi witnesses and no connection to the victim. Eric Blackman
1:56
Speaker 2: was found guilty of murder and Tony Cox on septem
2:00
Speaker 2: number twenty seven, twenty oh four. He was since sixty
2:04
Speaker 2: years in prison this this wrongful conviction. My name is
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Speaker 2: Patrick Persley, also known as Free Patrick Persley. I've been
2:22
Speaker 2: a guest on this show to talk about my own
2:24
Speaker 2: wrongful conviction, but now I'm here as your guest host.
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Speaker 2: In April twenty twenty two, I had the honor of
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Speaker 2: sitting down with Eric Blackman to talk about his incredible story. Today,
2:38
Speaker 2: I have a very distinguished guest, a friend, a brother
2:41
Speaker 2: of fellow Axandery, a very positive person, someone I've known
2:46
Speaker 2: for more than a decade. Eric Blackman. How are you today?
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Speaker 3: I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. I definitely definitely
2:54
Speaker 3: appreciate you being here. And we knew each other a
2:56
Speaker 3: lot longer than the.
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Speaker 2: Decade, at least a decade.
2:59
Speaker 3: Yeah out two fifteen to twenty years ago when I really.
3:04
Speaker 2: Think we were at Stateville together.
3:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, stay here.
3:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you've come a long way and you've
3:11
Speaker 2: done a lot. You've really done a lot to save
3:14
Speaker 2: your own life. Did you ever face any criticism where
3:16
Speaker 2: they say, like your house lord, you know, how gave
3:19
Speaker 2: way out with yourself? You never heard that one.
3:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the way people think that way, or one
3:24
Speaker 3: of the biggest criticisms is people will tell y'all man
3:26
Speaker 3: that petition will never work. Oh you know, hey, that'd
3:29
Speaker 3: be what you get a lot. Uh sometimes, And I
3:33
Speaker 3: heard a lot about the very petition that got me here,
3:35
Speaker 3: So I really, you know, you just really got to
3:37
Speaker 3: go on with what you research and how you feel
3:39
Speaker 3: and what you believe in, and if it's right, you
3:42
Speaker 3: just hope that a court ends up seeing it that way.
3:44
Speaker 3: You know, country every to what anybody else may say.
3:48
Speaker 2: So, where where are you from.
3:50
Speaker 3: I'm from the West Side of Chicago. I was born
3:52
Speaker 3: and raised there. Yeah. It was it dangerous, very much
3:56
Speaker 3: like any other place. It was you know, ripple with gangs, drugs, violence,
4:03
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. It was you know, it
4:05
Speaker 3: was just things that were around. You know, you do
4:07
Speaker 3: your best to stay away from it, but it's there
4:10
Speaker 3: things that you see every day.
4:12
Speaker 2: In Eric's neighborhood. Gang violence and drugs went hand in
4:16
Speaker 2: hand with police brutality.
4:18
Speaker 3: In our neighborhood. They came up with this what they
4:21
Speaker 3: called what was later called the Black Site, which is
4:24
Speaker 3: a home and square police station. There was this station
4:27
Speaker 3: where people would be disappeared, where you would go and
4:31
Speaker 3: you would hear the stories of people riding past, hearing
4:33
Speaker 3: screams at night. But it was just a place where
4:36
Speaker 3: people where all of your rights was just violated. People
4:39
Speaker 3: were just going there and people wouldn't hear from for
4:43
Speaker 3: loan periods of time, and people were arrested and healed,
4:46
Speaker 3: and it would later revealed that people were you know,
4:49
Speaker 3: unconstitutionally held there at that jail.
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Speaker 2: Now, people have to remember the setting in Chicago in
4:56
Speaker 2: the late nineties. You know, they had record amounts of murders,
5:00
Speaker 2: and you have these cadres of police who are basically
5:05
Speaker 2: acting outside of the law. People would be amazed the
5:08
Speaker 2: level of brutality that's leveled against someone being interrogated who
5:14
Speaker 2: is nine out of ten times a young black male.
5:17
Speaker 2: A twenty fifteen investigation by the Guardian revealed that the
5:21
Speaker 2: Home and Square facility had detained and interrogated more than
5:25
Speaker 2: seven thousand people in Chicago since nineteen ninety five, and
5:30
Speaker 2: estimated eighty percent of those people were black, and only
5:33
Speaker 2: a handful were allowed legal representation.
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Speaker 3: You know, it's like, hey, you hear about these things,
5:39
Speaker 3: and you know people and you so you know, it's
5:44
Speaker 3: very much real. Like the Bookiyman.
5:48
Speaker 2: On July fourth, two thousand and two, you have Tony
5:52
Speaker 2: Cox in Cook County, Illinois. He shot to death. There's
5:58
Speaker 2: witnesses people dropping down the street, at least two or
6:01
Speaker 2: three of those. There's someone next door in barbershok two people.
6:06
Speaker 2: There's kind of according to the record, it's like this
6:08
Speaker 2: strange meet up right, he gets a message like a
6:13
Speaker 2: meet in front of fat Alberts or meet at Fat Alberts,
6:16
Speaker 2: he meets Richard Rego. I believe they kind of say
6:20
Speaker 2: inside the restaurant for about twenty minutes and they're excellent restaurant.
6:27
Speaker 2: Two people pop up and shoot Tony Cox Debt. I
6:31
Speaker 2: believe that's that's the state's that was the state's case.
6:35
Speaker 3: I believe, yeah, that is what they uh ultimately you know,
6:39
Speaker 3: presented at court as to being what actually happened that day.
6:44
Speaker 2: I know when the shooting happened, there was like a
6:47
Speaker 2: handful of witnesses from your record or from like where
6:50
Speaker 2: are some things that we're saying about the actual shooter.
6:53
Speaker 2: I know they had made nine one one calls.
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Speaker 3: Or according to the record, french Line Reese and Lisa
7:01
Speaker 3: McDowell were two people who were driving past the crime.
7:05
Speaker 3: They both were stopped at this same.
7:08
Speaker 2: Light at different viewpoints.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, both one was heading north the other were
7:12
Speaker 3: heading south, but they were both you know, on opposite
7:15
Speaker 3: sides of the same light. According to Miss Frenshawn Reee,
7:20
Speaker 3: the light turned green, she see these people standing up
7:22
Speaker 3: half a block in front of her. The light turns
7:24
Speaker 3: green and she proceeds up. She sees one of these
7:28
Speaker 3: men shoot the other.
7:31
Speaker 2: Do you recall, like her identification, what description.
7:34
Speaker 3: She gave a description. I can't recall, but it wasn't
7:37
Speaker 3: a description that fit me. I believe her description was
7:39
Speaker 3: somebody like five, teen thirties, twenties thirties. I was a
7:43
Speaker 3: teen then, but it was something that definitely didn't fit me.
7:46
Speaker 3: I'm six', FOUR i was a teenager at the. Time
7:50
Speaker 3: so you, know it was a very for a crime
7:54
Speaker 3: from WHO i am. Now miss McDowell says that she
7:57
Speaker 3: was still there and when the crime, happened she heard the,
8:01
Speaker 3: shots looked over her and the kids were in the.
8:03
Speaker 3: Car she seen this person or somebody two people come
8:07
Speaker 3: around the build in and walk up on this man
8:09
Speaker 3: that was already on the ground where she's seeing the
8:12
Speaker 3: white man who we. Suspected she was saying Mister rego
8:15
Speaker 3: had a.
8:16
Speaker 2: Gun she actually puts a gun In origo's. Hand, yeah
8:20
Speaker 2: that's what she did at her initial statement to the.
8:23
Speaker 2: Police sometime later she would go on to change. That
8:26
Speaker 2: it really cut a lot of people's eye, because, like
8:29
Speaker 2: if what she's saying is, true then Mster frigo was
8:34
Speaker 2: not a, witness he was a participant in this.
8:37
Speaker 3: Crime you know What i'm. Saying i'm not sure if
8:39
Speaker 3: everything that happened or what the actual you, know uh
8:44
Speaker 3: relationship with what actually went. On it was a lot
8:46
Speaker 3: of questions around what actually happened then who was actually
8:50
Speaker 3: involved that?
8:50
Speaker 2: Day you know a lot of cases take a lot
8:52
Speaker 2: twists and, turns but your case is almost like a
8:55
Speaker 2: direct like a direct. Shot like you're at a you're
9:00
Speaker 2: hosting a, party, right and you, know like your barbituning
9:05
Speaker 2: Is july. Fourth it went out, there, right so you
9:08
Speaker 2: got twenty to forty, witnesses right That can you tell
9:12
Speaker 2: me about?
9:13
Speaker 3: That, well we threw a barbecue on myself and some
9:17
Speaker 3: friends AND i over on the block where we normally
9:20
Speaker 3: hung and we were out there throughout that. Afternoon uh
9:27
Speaker 3: the time that they say this murder happened to, occurred
9:29
Speaker 3: we were definitely out. THERE i had a dozen to
9:32
Speaker 3: two dozen people that could verify WHERE i.
9:34
Speaker 2: Was how how the hell they tie, you, like how
9:38
Speaker 2: they drag you?
9:38
Speaker 3: In you, KNOW i don't. Know that's SOMETHING i don't
9:42
Speaker 3: know to this. Day HOW i ever became a, Suspect
9:45
Speaker 3: HOW i had no link to the, gang no. TIES
9:49
Speaker 3: i wasn't a part of that gang or any gang
9:52
Speaker 3: for that. Matter i'm not, sure and to this day
9:56
Speaker 3: that's still the. Question, NO i never had any dealings
9:59
Speaker 3: with the victor them or anybody that was allegedly involved
10:03
Speaker 3: in this. CRIME i do.
10:05
Speaker 2: Nothing so how did they like effectuate the, Rest, like
10:09
Speaker 2: how was it the same day or?
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Speaker 3: Later, No, SIR i was arrested like months. LATER i
10:15
Speaker 3: believe it was like two. MONTHS i got Arrested september
10:18
Speaker 3: the fifth of that, year which is exactly like two months.
10:22
Speaker 3: Later in between the time of the murder and my actual,
10:28
Speaker 3: arrest which was a couple of, MONTHS i had been
10:31
Speaker 3: arrested for some type of disorder to conduct of gambling
10:36
Speaker 3: or something like. That you, know in our neighborhood the
10:39
Speaker 3: police you, know soup you.
10:40
Speaker 2: Us, slaughtering, yeah lordman or those type of out here
10:44
Speaker 2: on these.
10:44
Speaker 3: Blocks and it's not a real big. Infraction it's in
10:47
Speaker 3: fraction that you normally go to like a misdemeanor corridor
10:51
Speaker 3: or something for and they just threw it. Out normally
10:54
Speaker 3: in my, neighborhood it's just the way to ring up.
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Speaker 2: Guys it's almost like a.
10:57
Speaker 3: Taxation, yeah it's a few quotas type of. Things and there.
11:02
Speaker 2: Let everybody, know who's in.
11:03
Speaker 3: Charge, yeah basically and The chicago P.
11:05
Speaker 2: D you're gonna respect A. Doherty yeah, really that's definitely.
11:10
Speaker 3: Know so SO i get one of. Those it was nothing, major,
11:14
Speaker 3: up didn't do. Anything so this particular morning of my,
11:17
Speaker 3: Rest september the, fourth was the DAY i actually had
11:20
Speaker 3: court for this on the. Fence SO i go there
11:23
Speaker 3: the same WAY i. Would you have a court, date
11:25
Speaker 3: nothing to. Miss WHEN i walk in the, building police are.
11:30
Speaker 3: There these aren't the regular. Police these are like the tactical.
11:33
Speaker 2: Guys they're waiting on.
11:34
Speaker 3: You, yeah they're waiting. There as soon AS i go
11:37
Speaker 3: through the metal, detector they act, like, so what's your?
11:40
Speaker 3: Name AND i tell them my, name and these officers
11:42
Speaker 3: grab me and rough. Me you, know you know how
11:45
Speaker 3: they do you know What i'm. Saying so, yeah the.
11:48
Speaker 2: Thing, yeah the extra, yeah your hands.
11:51
Speaker 3: On, yeah so it's a grab you, up And i'm
11:53
Speaker 3: like for what you, KNOW whi y'all grabbing me for
11:55
Speaker 3: my attorney's right in the. Courtroom so the whole thing
11:59
Speaker 3: was to prevent me from getting a chance to notify my.
12:01
Speaker 2: Attorney oh that's something else, too because if they know
12:06
Speaker 2: you have, attorney they're not supposed to ask you.
12:09
Speaker 3: Nothing, well, right but they knew my attorney was there
12:13
Speaker 3: in their. COURTROOM i was going to, court he was.
12:16
Speaker 2: There you, know there's usually a very clear path to
12:21
Speaker 2: why the police picked. Somebody. Right one of the things
12:26
Speaker 2: THAT i hear a lot from people who have not
12:28
Speaker 2: lived the life that we have. Lived it's, like come,
12:32
Speaker 2: on what they do just pick the name out of a.
12:35
Speaker 2: HAT i could never figure out in your, Case, like
12:38
Speaker 2: how the hell did they pick? You you, know.
12:41
Speaker 3: That's still a mystery to this day for, me just
12:44
Speaker 3: as well as my legal team going. FORWARD i can't
12:47
Speaker 3: really tell you why they picked me. OUT i don't
12:50
Speaker 3: know that. Would that's something that baffles me to this.
12:54
Speaker 3: Day even when you aren't guilty and you know you
12:57
Speaker 3: haven't done, anything you still question, yourself like why? Me
13:01
Speaker 3: why the hell DID? I what COULD i have done?
13:03
Speaker 3: Differently you will and to this, day LIKE i questioned
13:08
Speaker 3: myself about, THAT i don't know WHAT i could have
13:10
Speaker 3: done differently BECAUSE i don't know anything in regards to
13:14
Speaker 3: what happened that.
13:14
Speaker 4: Day this episode is sponsored by THE Aig Pro Bono.
13:26
Speaker 4: PROGRAM aig is a leading global insurance, company and THE
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Speaker 4: aig Pro bono program provides free legal, services as well
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Speaker 4: as other support to many nonprofit organizations as well as
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Speaker 4: individuals who are most in, need and they recently announced
13:42
Speaker 4: that working to reform the criminal justice system will become
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Speaker 4: a key pillar of the program's.
13:48
Speaker 2: Mission the police Arrested eric without him, warrant and they
13:55
Speaker 2: took him to the. Station but he has no idea
13:58
Speaker 2: what's going. On you can imagine just being dragged away
14:02
Speaker 2: from your, family dragged away from your, house and the
14:05
Speaker 2: police took their time in telling him what this was all.
14:08
Speaker 3: About eventually they tell me That i'm there for. Murder
14:12
Speaker 3: the only THING i could tell you is that's like
14:14
Speaker 3: the most, earthshaking earth shattering like moment THAT i could tell.
14:19
Speaker 3: You you, know it was like you, know hearing the,
14:22
Speaker 3: record you, know like, Murder, yeah. MURDER i never been
14:27
Speaker 3: nobody accused of nothing remotely like. That, now it's like hold,
14:30
Speaker 3: on they tell you, murder and they leave out, again
14:33
Speaker 3: and they leave you for a while and then, yeah,
14:37
Speaker 3: Yeah then they come back in and they're, like, okay
14:39
Speaker 3: you want to tell us what happened, Now AND i
14:41
Speaker 3: don't know what, happened And i'm, denying and they steady
14:46
Speaker 3: tried to do. It you, know, hey well maybe it
14:49
Speaker 3: didn't happen this, Way maybe it happened that. Way we
14:52
Speaker 3: know you. Weren't, yeah we know you weren't the. Person
14:55
Speaker 3: and those are things that they go, out go, over
14:58
Speaker 3: they say and do a lot of different things do
15:00
Speaker 3: out those three. Days it really was LIKE i never
15:04
Speaker 3: been so broke down and so dejected and so defeated
15:08
Speaker 3: in my. Life i'll just say, that like just being
15:10
Speaker 3: in that just having people constantly yell and badger you
15:14
Speaker 3: and tell you and talk to you like you the,
15:17
Speaker 3: lowest thirtiest thing in the world and accused you of
15:21
Speaker 3: doing something like so. Horrific you, know it just shoters.
15:25
Speaker 3: You it broke. ME i was a nineteen year old.
15:27
Speaker 3: KID i never went through nothing like that. BEFORE i
15:32
Speaker 3: was just you, KNOW i was. SCARED i was. DEFEATED
15:37
Speaker 3: i was. HURT i didn't know and, like, man you
15:41
Speaker 3: just don't know what to do in that. Situation you
15:43
Speaker 3: a kid in. There, man the stuff that those grown
15:46
Speaker 3: men subject kids, too like in, That like you know
15:48
Speaker 3: What i'm.
15:49
Speaker 2: Saying one of the detectors on this case Was James,
15:53
Speaker 2: sanchez and since all this, happened he got promoted to
15:56
Speaker 2: commander despite having at least ninety formal complaints and miscind.
16:00
Speaker 2: Them so, yeah this is this character right, here he's
16:04
Speaker 2: the one actually Interrogating.
16:06
Speaker 3: Eric, yeah Mister. Sanchez LIKE i called him out his,
16:10
Speaker 3: NAME i cursed at. Him he said something to. ME
16:12
Speaker 3: i cursed at, him like, GAME i ask a nice
16:15
Speaker 3: one on the, face, yeah just the. Face yeah, yeah.
16:19
Speaker 2: Let you know it means.
16:20
Speaker 3: Business, yeah, yeah he got his point. Across, YEAH i
16:23
Speaker 3: ain't say that no.
16:24
Speaker 2: More after its, interrogation he waited for his trial behind
16:29
Speaker 2: bars and cook kinde of jail for two years.
16:31
Speaker 3: Being stuck in that. Place it's one of the most, dreadful,
16:38
Speaker 3: crepit dilapidated places that you could ever Throw so many
16:41
Speaker 3: people in is, rats, roaches, knives, violence, gangs if you name,
16:50
Speaker 3: it you get tyrannical police officers or corrections officers that
16:55
Speaker 3: would just do what like it was. ROUGH i seen
16:59
Speaker 3: people be stabbed if you name, it choke. STRANGLED i
17:04
Speaker 3: seen all kinds of things like happened to people. THERE
17:08
Speaker 3: i seen one guy like set on. Fire like it's
17:11
Speaker 3: some of the things that you wake up to when
17:13
Speaker 3: you have nowhere to. Go no whether, run you just,
17:16
Speaker 3: stuck you just.
17:17
Speaker 2: There so by the time you get the, trial it's
17:19
Speaker 2: almost like it's almost like a. Relief what is the states,
17:24
Speaker 2: like what's their case in? Chief what do they?
17:26
Speaker 3: Present, well we started trial about two years, later and
17:31
Speaker 3: the state's whole case in chief was the identifications Of
17:36
Speaker 3: miss McDowell And Miss. Reese and that was the only
17:40
Speaker 3: Thing i'll never forget. It miss French On rees testified
17:46
Speaker 3: to seeing the offender's face for probably four to five.
17:50
Speaker 3: Seconds miss McDowell testified to seeing it only for like
17:55
Speaker 3: two or.
17:55
Speaker 2: Three before, Trial errigan's mother put together list potential alibi
18:01
Speaker 2: witnesses that could confirm he was at The fourth Of
18:04
Speaker 2: july barbecue and not down At Fat albert's restaurant where
18:08
Speaker 2: the crime was.
18:09
Speaker 3: Committed my mom made the calls to two people that
18:12
Speaker 3: day to ultimately come to my trial and testify and
18:17
Speaker 3: my defense with those two alibi. Witnesses two of the
18:21
Speaker 3: people from twenty or Forty, yeah that he hadn't even
18:26
Speaker 3: spoken to until my trial attorney hadn't even spoken to until.
18:30
Speaker 3: That more thing that they showed.
18:31
Speaker 2: Up you're waiting for, Trial just for the, record you're
18:34
Speaker 2: waiting for trial two years and he hasn't even spoke
18:36
Speaker 2: to two, witnesses but a few hours before.
18:39
Speaker 3: Trial, yeah according to, them that is the first time
18:43
Speaker 3: they ever met or spoke with. Him was like and
18:47
Speaker 3: it wasn't even hours he spoke to, them like probably
18:51
Speaker 3: for a short period prior to them getting UNDERSTAND i
18:55
Speaker 3: kind of felt, like, okay not really, Okay BUT i
19:01
Speaker 3: KNOW i got an. ALABIM i KNOW i got a
19:02
Speaker 3: bunch of people that know WHERE i would you, KNOW
19:05
Speaker 3: i just know that there's a, mistake that this would
19:07
Speaker 3: be straightened.
19:07
Speaker 2: Out but the, lawyer he he doesn't really follow.
19:12
Speaker 3: Up he, didn't the police didn't follow, up the lawyer
19:16
Speaker 3: didn't follow. Up at that, POINT i was a. LAYMAN
19:19
Speaker 3: i knew nothing about the law going. IN i. Didn't
19:22
Speaker 3: it's like you're really learning as you go, along and
19:25
Speaker 3: the sad part is you're learning with your. Life.
19:27
Speaker 2: Yeah no room for, Error, yeah.
19:30
Speaker 3: No room for er.
19:30
Speaker 2: Room before his, Trial rick's attorney convinced him to take
19:34
Speaker 2: a bench. Trial in a jury, trial you pick your twelve. Jurors,
19:40
Speaker 2: however in a bench, trial the judge is the sole trial.
19:44
Speaker 2: Fact he's the one who hears the evidence and determines
19:48
Speaker 2: guilt or. Innocence so you're putting all your eggs in one.
19:51
Speaker 3: Basket he said that in my, situation it was better to.
19:56
Speaker 3: Go and he definitely convinced. Me he gave me a
19:58
Speaker 3: lot of different reasons and AND i really didn't want to,
20:02
Speaker 3: Go LIKE i really didn't want. It but like you a,
20:07
Speaker 3: kid it's your first time going through, this who would
20:10
Speaker 3: you listen to other than the person that's supposed to
20:13
Speaker 3: defend you your.
20:13
Speaker 2: Attorney an attorney and his client are in a fiduciary.
20:17
Speaker 2: Relationship he's supposed to look out for your best. Interests
20:20
Speaker 2: he's supposed to defend you. Zealously in, retrospect as a
20:24
Speaker 2: jail house, LAWYER i could tell you taking a bench
20:28
Speaker 2: trial is a terrible. Idea it closes out a bunch
20:31
Speaker 2: of chances for your appeal to be heard because a
20:33
Speaker 2: lot of the issues actually become non issues because the
20:38
Speaker 2: judge is presumed to know the. Law But, eric he
20:40
Speaker 2: didn't know this at the.
20:41
Speaker 3: Time he was just a.
20:42
Speaker 2: Kid On september twenty, seventh the judge Found Eric blackman
20:46
Speaker 2: guilty of murder and was sentenced to sixty years in.
20:49
Speaker 3: Prison i'll never forget my mom was in that courtroom
20:55
Speaker 3: and like just the shriek that she let out was
20:59
Speaker 3: like Some i'll never forget because we KNOW i hadn't done.
21:04
Speaker 3: It everybody knew, it, everybody the whole, neighborhood, everybody the,
21:10
Speaker 3: police they even knew even when they were seeing it
21:12
Speaker 3: in that, room they knew THAT i hadn't done. It
21:15
Speaker 3: they knew. It but they told, me you gonna say
21:18
Speaker 3: as to, Jail you're gonna go through all of, this
21:20
Speaker 3: and those things played through my. Mind what was gonna
21:24
Speaker 3: happen WHEN i got to the, penitentiary my, kids my.
21:29
Speaker 3: Family hearing that Guilty verdy was like hand one of the,
21:34
Speaker 3: worst if not the worst there of my life. Ever
21:40
Speaker 3: just KNOWING i didn't do, it it was hard to
21:42
Speaker 3: sleep at. NIGHT i. COULDN'T i COULDN'T i couldn't, REST
21:48
Speaker 3: i couldn't, SLEEP i couldn't. EAT i thought about killing
21:53
Speaker 3: myself so many, times even tried.
21:55
Speaker 2: Once by the TIME i Met, eric he's working hard
22:15
Speaker 2: to save his own. LIFE i met him in a
22:17
Speaker 2: law library and he was deep deep in the, books
22:21
Speaker 2: trying to learn everything he could to get himself out of.
22:23
Speaker 2: THERE i think you were the one that told, me
22:26
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i used to tell everybody pro say gets no
22:29
Speaker 2: play like that's like one of my, things like you represent,
22:32
Speaker 2: yourself forget about? It, Right SO i think you were
22:34
Speaker 2: the first one told me uh uh. RIGHT i was, like,
22:38
Speaker 2: man what you mean IF i ain't got a, lorder
22:42
Speaker 2: YOU i ain't getting out of. Jail so you file
22:44
Speaker 2: stuff yourself and actually got some type of, rhythm, RIGHT
22:50
Speaker 2: i mean not at first, obviously.
22:51
Speaker 3: Right so, yeah we went through the process AND i
22:56
Speaker 3: went through the direct appeal process the posting process that was.
23:01
Speaker 3: Denied both of those were.
23:03
Speaker 2: Denied the next step For eric was still pill to
23:06
Speaker 2: the federal courts with the rid of habeas, corpus a
23:09
Speaker 2: petition that claims you've been in prison on violation of
23:11
Speaker 2: your constitutional. Rights it's your first and last federal.
23:16
Speaker 3: Pill the only time that the federal courts will ever
23:21
Speaker 3: look at a conviction or overturn the conviction is if
23:26
Speaker 3: the state courts did not convict you correctly according to federal,
23:32
Speaker 3: law THE us constitutional. Law so basically you have to
23:37
Speaker 3: find not only that they were, wrong but they have
23:40
Speaker 3: to be more than. Wrong they have to be so
23:42
Speaker 3: egregious as to where LIKE i, mean it's a high
23:47
Speaker 3: bar to. Pass you have.
23:48
Speaker 2: To ask the district, judge the guy who smashes you
23:51
Speaker 2: in the. Head give me a letter that you did
23:53
Speaker 2: me wrong SO i can take it to your.
23:55
Speaker 3: Boss, yeah so you asked him to reconsider his. Decision
23:58
Speaker 3: if he, doesn't then and you have to find what
24:02
Speaker 3: they call a certificate of ap pillability to. Him and
24:05
Speaker 3: that's where you have to get him or her to
24:07
Speaker 3: say where they were, wrong which they very very rarely
24:10
Speaker 3: do we get to the point whether the certificate of
24:12
Speaker 3: appillability Is granny AND i get these great attorneys And
24:16
Speaker 3: retail And DAVID. P. CROME i appreciate them so much
24:20
Speaker 3: because after WHAT i had been through with the first,
24:24
Speaker 3: ATTORNEY i gave him. Hell and it wasn't, intentionally it
24:28
Speaker 3: was just because Trust, yeah that was my, life that
24:32
Speaker 3: had been my baby for so. LONG i finally had got,
24:35
Speaker 3: some you, know AND i just couldn't give it, up
24:38
Speaker 3: you know What i'm. Saying so you go through it and, like,
24:41
Speaker 3: man they were the best attorneys THAT i ever could
24:44
Speaker 3: have asked. For those people understood and they loved. Me
24:48
Speaker 3: like even WHEN i was an, ass WHEN i was,
24:50
Speaker 3: WRONG i had badgered them about what they were going to.
24:54
Speaker 3: Argue what you're gonna, say you know What i'm saying like, this.
24:56
Speaker 2: No just That i'd like to be told how to
24:58
Speaker 2: do their.
24:59
Speaker 3: Job hey, LOOK i mean, HEY i was the only
25:03
Speaker 3: person that was going to go back and do that
25:05
Speaker 3: time at the end of the. Day so to jail
25:08
Speaker 3: say hey we get to go. Back we are. Elated
25:12
Speaker 3: but another problem presents. ITSELF i had been in jail
25:16
Speaker 3: at that point so. Long money is, depleted don't have
25:21
Speaker 3: many people around to. Help you have a new, Trial
25:28
Speaker 3: you have a new. Case what you're going to? Do
25:30
Speaker 3: how do you perceied going? Forward and mister kron he was, like,
25:35
Speaker 3: hey we got a few. Options and one of those
25:40
Speaker 3: options was we could see if the c W, s
25:44
Speaker 3: the CENTERM waw For, convictions will be willing to take your.
25:46
Speaker 3: CASE i told, him, yeah you could do whatever you.
25:49
Speaker 3: Want BUT i asked them about and they said, NO.
25:54
Speaker 2: I had good luck with.
25:54
Speaker 3: That. Yeah so you, know we come we have this
25:57
Speaker 3: attorney meeting AND i see these the new. Faces i'd
26:01
Speaker 3: never seen this one, little, small wildly looked woman like
26:05
Speaker 3: she barely stood over the table like and she was, like,
26:08
Speaker 3: Hey i'm Caring. Daniels and she was, like, yeah so
26:11
Speaker 3: we are going to be here and taking your case
26:14
Speaker 3: And we're looking forward to working with. You and the
26:17
Speaker 3: first THING i said was when she got, finished was, Like,
26:20
Speaker 3: hey but y'all told me no. Before why you tell
26:23
Speaker 3: me no? Before and LIKE i was just sitting there
26:26
Speaker 3: intently waiting on the, answer and she didn't say. Anything
26:29
Speaker 3: she just gave me that mother look and looked at
26:31
Speaker 3: the paper and she liid it to. Me AND i
26:35
Speaker 3: signed that paper and that was one of the best
26:41
Speaker 3: things That i've ever done for my.
26:43
Speaker 2: Life and that lawyer Was Karen daniel makes she rest in.
26:48
Speaker 2: Peace she was a renowned wrawful convictions attorney who at
26:53
Speaker 2: the time was a co director of The center For Wrangful.
26:55
Speaker 2: Convictions she and the students she supervised one more than
27:00
Speaker 2: twenty exoneration cases during her. Career she was a great,
27:04
Speaker 2: woman a real hero who helped me out WHEN i
27:07
Speaker 2: was lost in the airport coming From georgia and she
27:10
Speaker 2: really didn't even know. Me she died in a tragic
27:14
Speaker 2: hit and running car crash in twenty, twenty a lass
27:17
Speaker 2: that's felt deeply across the innocence movement.
27:20
Speaker 3: Community she liked my second. MOTHER i often tell people
27:25
Speaker 3: like that she the one who gave me my second
27:28
Speaker 3: birth who gave me my second. Life so to, me, like,
27:31
Speaker 3: yeah she was like my mother and she just did so,
27:35
Speaker 3: much like in a way for this. Community if she
27:38
Speaker 3: didn't work your, case it didn't get you an. Attorney
27:41
Speaker 3: she made some precedent that you ultimately ended up, using
27:45
Speaker 3: and everybody benefited from.
27:48
Speaker 2: Her arrogan's new team of lawyers brought us case to
27:52
Speaker 2: THE Us Seventh Circuit court Of. Appeals Judge Ronald guzman
27:56
Speaker 2: Granted eric's petition for rid of habeas corpus and was
27:59
Speaker 2: let out prison on bond penning of. Retrial actually the
28:03
Speaker 2: same DAY i got, OUT i.
28:04
Speaker 3: Was living life very barely because you always had the you,
28:11
Speaker 3: know imposition that maybe you may go. Back you know
28:14
Speaker 3: What i'm. Saying you knew what it was. Like you,
28:16
Speaker 3: know it was always hanging. There it's like walking around
28:19
Speaker 3: with that black cloud or that am build over your,
28:22
Speaker 3: head just waiting for it to, drop and you didn't
28:25
Speaker 3: know what it would. Be you. KNOW i know THAT
28:27
Speaker 3: i hadn't done, anything BUT i KNEW i hadn't done,
28:29
Speaker 3: anything you, know the first. Time AND i believe it's
28:33
Speaker 3: the fall case that says even an innocent man still
28:37
Speaker 3: faces a fifty to fifty chance if he goes to.
28:40
Speaker 3: Trial SO i knew what my chances. WERE i didn't
28:43
Speaker 3: want to go back to, jail BUT i knew WHAT
28:46
Speaker 3: i had to. Do like we still had that hurd
28:49
Speaker 3: her to get. ACROSS i was scared as. HELL i
28:52
Speaker 3: wanted to prolonget as long AS i, could but then
28:55
Speaker 3: that really wasn't a viable. Thought SO i told my
28:58
Speaker 3: attorneys to let's do man. Trial it was six months
29:03
Speaker 3: AFTER i got, out and we demand the, trial and,
29:07
Speaker 3: uh when it came, time they decided not to. Proceed
29:11
Speaker 3: they dropped the.
29:11
Speaker 2: Charges then comes to, Celebration, nah.
29:15
Speaker 3: Not, really because it was anti. Climactic you think it's
29:20
Speaker 3: gonna be overw then you, think, like, hey life is.
29:24
Speaker 3: Great you know a lot of us think that that
29:28
Speaker 3: would be the end of the, movie Right, Na but
29:33
Speaker 3: it's just the. Beginning BECAUSE i heard that thing for
29:36
Speaker 3: like more than half of my. LIFE i didn't really
29:40
Speaker 3: know like how to live without. It like it was
29:43
Speaker 3: a different.
29:44
Speaker 2: Era we come home to a different. Area it's a different.
29:47
Speaker 3: World yeah it really. Is but then you you, know
29:50
Speaker 3: you really just like wake up and you don't have
29:53
Speaker 3: to worry about, That you don't have to go through. It.
29:56
Speaker 3: Anymore but it's LIKE i don't, KNOW i don't even
30:01
Speaker 3: remember the point to WHERE i didn't have to go through.
30:04
Speaker 3: It so.
30:06
Speaker 2: It's like it becomes our, life, right and it becomes
30:10
Speaker 2: almost like which we're defined, by like you were actually
30:14
Speaker 2: become a success story just like you start WORKING. Cwc,
30:18
Speaker 2: right what is? That like where's the sweet part like
30:21
Speaker 2: in your? Work and you know WHAT i, Mean.
30:24
Speaker 3: LIKE i tell people like, THIS i guess the great
30:28
Speaker 3: sweet spot is that you still get a chance to
30:30
Speaker 3: work on trying to ultimately correct the system or not
30:36
Speaker 3: allow whatever happened to me to happen to the next.
30:38
Speaker 3: Person you, know that's the part that gets up and
30:41
Speaker 3: keep me, driving you, know keeps me. Going at the same,
30:45
Speaker 3: time it's like going back to visit your tournament to
30:48
Speaker 3: over and over and over, again because every time you
30:52
Speaker 3: pick up a, case it takes you right back to
30:53
Speaker 3: that spot for. You every TIME i go to the,
30:56
Speaker 3: court you, know And i'm, Good i'm, great rap, Everything
31:01
Speaker 3: but sometimes that same fear creeps back is that first
31:05
Speaker 3: day WHEN i was standing in there AND.
31:09
Speaker 2: I know it's it's all, consuming it's all. Consuming, Yeah
31:13
Speaker 2: SO i mean our day THAT i don't have A stateville.
31:17
Speaker 2: Reference there's not a single day THAT i am not back.
31:22
Speaker 2: There WHAT i want to ask, you, though is what
31:25
Speaker 2: would you invite the, audience how can they help, you
31:30
Speaker 2: or something that's near and dear to your heart? Right
31:33
Speaker 2: what is your call to?
31:34
Speaker 3: ACTION i guess my personal call to action is to keep,
31:38
Speaker 3: fighting is to keep on trying to do things to
31:41
Speaker 3: make our justice system. BETTER i know people might say
31:44
Speaker 3: that we have like a great justice, system BUT i tell,
31:47
Speaker 3: people much like Doctor king once said that an injustice
31:51
Speaker 3: anywhere is a threat to justice. Everywhere so if one
31:54
Speaker 3: person is in jail, wrongfully or if one person is over,
31:59
Speaker 3: sentenced then it runs the chance of it happening to
32:03
Speaker 3: two and three and four and five and so more
32:07
Speaker 3: to where it'll become the. Norm AND i look at
32:10
Speaker 3: so many people that are sentenced, today AND i see
32:13
Speaker 3: a lot of people over. Sentenced we're punitively punishing people,
32:17
Speaker 3: consistently like and WHAT i mean by that, Is, yeah
32:21
Speaker 3: people make, mistakes people commit, crimes but do we take their?
32:25
Speaker 3: Lives like for every. Infraction we have more people slated
32:30
Speaker 3: to die in prison now than at any point in time.
32:34
Speaker 3: Before so WHEN i say to, people, yeah you could,
32:37
Speaker 3: say somebody committed a crime more or WHATEVER i say to.
32:41
Speaker 3: You so what do we do do we take the
32:43
Speaker 3: life from and to the people that say, Yeah i'll just, say,
32:47
Speaker 3: hey what about that red stop sign that you? Read
32:50
Speaker 3: what about that red light you? Read that's not what
32:53
Speaker 3: penalty should you? Get you. KNOW i work with a
32:56
Speaker 3: lot of different Org so the first thing IS i
32:59
Speaker 3: work for The MacArthur Justice, center which is a civil
33:02
Speaker 3: entity that sues for people like us and other people
33:05
Speaker 3: who you, know face any civil rights. Violation we do
33:09
Speaker 3: things like voters, rights prisoner, rights solitary wrongful, convictions wrongful,
33:16
Speaker 3: death police, shootings and those type of. Things so these
33:19
Speaker 3: are the things THAT i feel are really near and
33:21
Speaker 3: dear to me being a chance to write the. SYSTEM
33:24
Speaker 3: i also work for The Chicago Torture Justice, center which
33:28
Speaker 3: works on basically trying to make sure that all of The,
33:33
Speaker 3: birds The John, birds torture, victims you, know get justice
33:37
Speaker 3: in their. Cases AND i sit on the board for that.
33:40
Speaker 3: END i also sit on the board for another or
33:43
Speaker 3: called The Justice Renewal, initiative where we try to give
33:47
Speaker 3: jobs to youth that are you, know disadvantaged and targeted
33:53
Speaker 3: or you, know return to, citizens and we try best
33:56
Speaker 3: to work with youth on that front to ultimately help.
33:59
Speaker 2: Them, yeah so they don't talk what we went. Through, yeah,
34:02
Speaker 2: yeah exactly. Important so we'll have those links to those
34:06
Speaker 2: organizations in the. Bile hopefully everyone will check them. Out
34:11
Speaker 2: you get to find a word disclosing. ARGUMENTS i, really,
34:13
Speaker 2: really really truly want to thank you for let me
34:17
Speaker 2: tell your. STORY i really commend you your survive.
34:22
Speaker 3: THANKS i Guess i'll take this time to just thank
34:26
Speaker 3: the people that helped me to get to this, point
34:29
Speaker 3: help me get, freedom help me be sitting here with you.
34:32
Speaker 3: ALL i don't think THAT i get a chance to say, that,
34:34
Speaker 3: well thank you and just tell those people how much they,
34:37
Speaker 3: meant how much every little thing that they ever did help.
34:43
Speaker 3: ME i thank all of those, people And i'd just
34:48
Speaker 3: like to say thank, you thank, you thank, you thank,
34:51
Speaker 3: you thank. YOU i don't THINK i can say it.
34:53
Speaker 2: Enough thank you for listening To Wrongful. CONVICTION i like
35:03
Speaker 2: to thank our executive Producers Jason flem And Kevin. Wadis
35:07
Speaker 2: The senior producer for this episode Is Jackie, polly and
35:10
Speaker 2: our producers Are Lyla, Robinson Conner, hall And Jeff. Cliveborne
35:14
Speaker 2: our editor Is Roxander gwedy and special thanks To Jillian
35:18
Speaker 2: forstad for help on this. Episode the music in this
35:22
Speaker 2: production is by three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph
35:26
Speaker 2: be sure to follow us On instagram At Wrongful, conviction
35:30
Speaker 2: On facebook At Wrongful conviction, podcast and On twitter at
35:34
Speaker 2: Wrong conviction as well As lava For. Good on all three.
35:38
Speaker 2: Platforms you can also follow me On facebook And instagram
35:42
Speaker 2: at Free Patrick pursley at Imkit culture two and online
35:47
Speaker 2: at imkidculture dot. Org Wrongful conviction is a production Of
35:52
Speaker 2: lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company Number.
35:56
Speaker 1: One tune in next week for the third and final
36:06
Speaker 1: episode Of Wrongful, conviction Where Patrick persley plays the host
36:09
Speaker 1: And patrick this time is going to Interview Jarvis ballard
36:13
Speaker 1: about their tragic shared. Experience, now both of them are
36:16
Speaker 1: innocent men who spent decades behind, bars and in this
36:20
Speaker 1: intimate and highly emotional, episode they're going to talk about
36:23
Speaker 1: the lies that Landed jarvis in prison and the patterns
36:26
Speaker 1: of misconduct at play in so many wrongful conviction, cases
36:29
Speaker 1: just like. Theirs, Now patrick Met jarvis the same TIME i,
36:34
Speaker 1: did which is that this Year's Innocence network conference In, Phoenix.
36:38
Speaker 1: Arizona both of us were immediately taken by this larger
36:42
Speaker 1: than life. Character this guy just got out of prison
36:45
Speaker 1: after two decades and he's there representing himself in such
36:51
Speaker 1: a powerful. Way so these guys bonded. Immediately it was
36:55
Speaker 1: an honor for me to be able to facilitate their
36:58
Speaker 1: connection and to Have patrick on the mic in my
37:02
Speaker 1: chair Interviewing. Jarvis it just means the world to, me
37:06
Speaker 1: so tune in listen Next monday in The Wrongful conviction
37:10
Speaker 1: podcast feed