Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / A birth center transfer, epic back labor, epidural failure, boundaries, and trusting your gut

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A birth center transfer, epic back labor, epidural failure, boundaries, and trusting your gut · Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast

• Merelise Wilson: Welcome to the Arrivals podcast. I'm your host, Merelise Wilson, and I'm so excited. My guest today is Sarah Biggers Stewart. Hi. Hi. So good to see you. So good to see you. What a time leap to go from college shenanigans to here. full motherhood Full motherhood birth stories. Everything. All the things. I know. I love seeing that arc though. I know. It's great. I feel like it's the right place to be in Thanks for doing this podcast. think it's important stories to be told. Yes, I completely agree. know, it's like there's this tradition of oral history that I feel like has been lost somewhere in the mix and, you know, modern culture, recent years. And I feel like we can bring some of that back through the sharing of birth stories and totally agree celebrating that. Yeah. Unfiltered girlhood. Yes. I love it. Yes, exactly. So you have two children, a boy and a little girl. Yep, I have my five-year-old boy, William, and then Eloise, who's about to turn three. Oh my goodness. So we're in a really fun, fun age right now. Yes. And I remember we were pregnant similar times with our first, with the two boys. Yep. And so when you got pregnant with William, what was your approach to pregnancy? And did you have a birth plan? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you and I have, I think, touched on this. But at that point, I was like in my peak. holistic living. I wanted as little intervention as possible. And so from the jump, I went the birth center route, which I think for me, like in hindsight was kind of forcing my own hand a little bit being like, if I don't even have the option to have an epidural, then maybe I'll want it in the moment. I definitely get that. like forcing my own hand. But I knew from the jump, I'm going to do the birth center. I'm going to try to do this as unmedicated and natural as possible. As that pregnancy unfolded, it was a tough pregnancy. I was so sick the whole time. I had gestational diabetes, which definitely caused all sorts of things along the way. I just felt like maybe I was having doubts creeping in about the birth center and chalked them up to first time mom jitters a little bit. Like, I don't know what's coming. I don't know how contractions are going to feel. ultimately, just kind of doubled down. I was like, I can do this. I'll do the birth center thing. Were you working with like a traditional OB practice or were you working with a midwife practice? So the birth center is exclusively midwives. They have an OB practice at the hospital that they partner with for transfers and things like that, but no OBs seen in the process. And that was fine for me. I liked that. But as I got closer and closer and William had some of the higher risk things because of the gestational diabetes, I just started having some doubts. and sort of powered through it. But ultimately what ended up happening is I'm 36 weeks pregnant, have to have another gestational diabetes scan. And he's measuring a little bit big, but nothing super concerning. And she's like, I think you're fine to like see this out longer. I get to 40 weeks and I get checked by the midwife and I'm not dilated at all. I'm not effaced at all. Like nothing's happening and that's fine. But I have to go for another scan. And at that point, the scan is reading big, which is a concern, with gestational diabetes. But also she said she saw calcification of my placenta, which I had never considered even being a thing. So she said, at this point, I think you have to talk about induction plans or a C-section or something. Like you can't keep this going. But at the birth center that I was at, again, it's not in a hospital. It was a whole separate place. There were really only a few ways to like, induced and some of them weren't even formal inductions. There was Foley bulb, there was stripping membranes, and then there was witches brew. Yeah. And I wasn't dilated or effaced enough for a Foley or even a membrane strip. Right. So have you had someone on here who did witches brew? No. And I remember you documenting it. ⁓ On Instagram when you did it. yeah. I did witches brew. Tell everyone what this is. Whatever you're picturing, it's like worse, I think, or just like more bizarre. It's like champagne. It's champagne. It's castor oil. And I think there was something else in it. But like things that on their own are kind of noxious. And then you mix them together and you drink it. And it's supposed to like just stimulate some movement. The midwives are like, take it, know, call us back in a few hours. Let us know how you're doing. And if anything happens, definitely call us. Does it stimulate? I've heard different things that it's supposed to help induce labor because it kind of stimulates your bowels and that sometimes can like... ⁓ I absolutely think that that's what it is because when I woke up from this nap, I was like, ⁓ my God, I have to go to the bathroom right That's I've heard. Yeah. I absolutely think it was like, let me see, what's the line between pooping and labor? Yeah. So I get up and I'm like, I need to go to the bathroom. And I start waddling to the bathroom and my waters explode. ⁓ I've never seen anyone else break their waters except for in a movie. So I don't know what it's like, but it was violent for me. Wow. Yeah, like an explosion across my bathroom floor. And I yell for my mom who was staying with us and Tucker to come up. And I'm like, come see what's going on. My water's broke. And it was my mom who was like, is that normal? And she points on the ground. And I'm like, oh my god, there's meconium in my waters. Which I had been warned was a possibility with midwife or witches brew. I think it is just midwives brew and I'm calling it witches brew because of that Elani new flavor. I'm going to call it witches brew too. Am I just making that midwives are, and I say this in the best way possible, kind of witchy. witchy. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. love it. Compliment. So I end up having meconium in my waters, which for anyone listening who's never experienced that or doesn't know what it is, it's basically the baby pooped in their amniotic fluid. And it's typically a sign of duress. They don't like to see it. And again, I was warned about all of this by the birth center. I had a great experience with the care and the service from the birth center, but ultimately, like every decision you make can have consequences. And that was one of them. So what sucks is from there, illegally in the state of Georgia, I'm not allowed to proceed with a birth center. Once you have a meconium, they have to transfer you. You're not a standard pregnancy anymore. I didn't know that. Yeah. Mainly because then you're on the clock and the baby exhibited signs of duress. So I get transferred to the hospital. And what stands out to me is I remember telling Tucker, I'm relieved. And so kind of in hindsight, in retrospect, I do think, like I said, those mom jitters that I or that I wrote off as mom jitters were real doubts. And I felt comforted by now being in a hospital. And I probably should have dug into those more. Yeah. It's like when you can't decide what you want for dinner. And so you flip a coin and suddenly you're disappointed when you get there and you're like, okay, what I really wanted was Chinese. Yeah. So I was really relieved to actually go to the hospital, if it wasn't my plan. ⁓ did have a doula. Yeah. It's a bit fuzzy, honestly, because it ended up being such a crazy labor that I like barely remember my doula. ⁓ you work with her leading up to the birth? have any sessions? little bit, a little bit, but it was also kind of one of those things that I just felt is what people do when you're going down the birth center path. I didn't really think about it that much. Bear in mind, it was COVID. Tucker was only able to be so involved because of COVID. I wasn't allowed to have my mom there because of COVID. My business was under an immense amount of stress and I feel like I was just kind of going through the... the checklist and not really considering what I wanted, just kind of going through this is what people do. This is how it's done. So I barely remember my doula honestly, but the hospital was so interesting because then I'm with an OB practice that like works with the midwives. They're more holistic, but they're still OBs, right? So it's a little different. And she was like, you're on the clock. We have 24 to 36 hours before we have put you in a C-section. And that was news to me. I didn't know that once your waters break in a hospital environment, you are on the clock. And is it risk of infection? Is that their concern? It's risk of infection. I think there's other things as well, but that's the main one. And like Georgia policy is unless you're able to like get yourself out of that hospital, they are going to put you in a C-section. Wow. If you don't, if you're not pushing by I think 36 hours. Okay. So I was on the clock. No pressure. No pressure at all. Meanwhile, she checks me and I'm not effaced. I'm like 30 % effaced. I'm half a centimeter dilated. And I'm like, great. My body's got to do something huge now. Yes. But the clearly was not ready. breaking is a good start. It was. Yeah. But even that, I'm clearly not fully ready for it. And you weren't having contractions yet or anything? None. None. So she's like, let's give it two hours and just see if maybe the water's breaking helps. ⁓ comes back. no change. I'm having no contractions. Nothing's going on. So she says we should try Pitocin, which in hindsight, I don't know if I really wanted to do but I did it. That was such a crazy experience. We never even got to like the main dose of Pitocin because William did not respond to it. His heart rate and whatever signs of distress they can find just weren't great. So they had me on this little baby dose of Pitocin. when I tell you that, that shit was from hell. I my back was in so much pain. Was he sunny side up? No. No, I never felt a single contraction with him in the entire this entire labor story I never felt a single contraction with him anywhere except my back Wow Like contortionist levels of pain contorting my body was like Cirque du Soleil show in there I've heard that back labor is like next level It was next level and totally different because it was the first I was sitting there being like maybe this is just it and everyone described it wrong to me or My pain tolerance sucks. Yeah Plus you've got pitocin, so that makes contractions stronger. when you have pitocin plus bad labor, ooh, terrible. So my doula Tucker, they're helping me with counter pressure. We're doing the TENS machine. We're trying to do all of this stuff to help. And the OB is like, I'll come back and check on you in a bit. Like, let's see what happens. I didn't know a bit was going to be like eight hours. wow. So she lets me labor for eight hours. I am ⁓ contorting in pain. I cannot emphasize enough. ⁓ when you you wanted to kind of have more of a birth center, ⁓ birth at first, you done any prep work in terms of how you were gonna handle pain management? Yeah, I had done hypnobirthing courses. had done all of it. That didn't mean anything in the moment. It all went out the back pain. I know, I get And still, I will sneak peak forward with Eloise's birth that felt completely different, those things did work. ⁓ So I know that this not the way it had to have been. It just was the way it ⁓ So she comes back in eight hours later. I have not progressed at all. Nothing. I'm like 5 % more effaced or something teeny tiny. I'm still half a centimeter. all of that? maybe a centimeter. I think I progressed a teeny tiny amount. But she holds my hands and I'm crying. Yeah. Because, and I'm sure a lot of high output, high productivity women can relate to this, but without even intending to, really like ascribed success to aspects of labor and my body not dilating or effacing on pitocin for eight hours. I was like, what is happening? I know. Well, you think you put in the work, you're going to get the result just like you do in your life and your business. time what I'm telling myself is this is all worth it because I'm progressing. Right. So to not progress at all, was so brutal. So I'm like crying and I'm so embarrassed. embarrassed, which is not the right emotion, but it's what I felt at the time. I was embarrassed. And I'm asking her, like, what should I do? What can I do? And I said, can I even get an epidural at one centimeter? Are you like allowed to do that? And I think at that point, a lot of the birth center information was kind of clouding my judgment because I had wanted to avoid cascades of intervention. So, so much so that I had internalized that getting an epidural early can really stall and hurt your progress. And she was like, yeah, I mean, I can do whatever you want, but just know there are always potential consequences. So she walked me through sort of the downsides of doing an early epidural, but also the upsides in my case being my body was so tense. mean, I was like a pent up ball of tension in between every contraction, because I just knew it was going to be so painful. was exhausted and she said, I'll call in the epidural. And I said, okay, great. So she calls in the epidural, took two and a half hours. Oh my gosh, Sarah. That's like what you always hear about. It's like worst case scenario. Don't wait until the last minute to ask for the epidural because it could take forever. And this is no judgment to where I gave birth, but I gave birth at Atlanta Medical Center for this one. It's a very high contact, high capacity, busy hospital. Their anesthesiology department, I think, was understaffed that evening as well. And they were just like no beds in the hospital. So by the time the anesthesiologist got to me, I was wrung out. No kidding. I was dying on that bed. ⁓ my God. No kidding. And I remember actually clocking that he had given me the epidural. And like I wasn't even there for it mentally. I just remember looking up and seeing everyone almost breathe a sigh of relief because apparently and epidural is a big deal, but I wasn't aware of any of that at the time because I was just in pain. They did give me fentanyl between all of that while waiting and I will say in a medical capacity that kind of slapped. It was great. yeah. I it my second and it kind of, took like the edge off barely, but it didn't really, but yeah. I think I was desperate for it. But yeah, for me, I don't know, maybe it was the dosage. I don't know. I was loving life on that fentanyl for a minute, but Finally, the epidural gets placed and it was magic. Yeah, I've heard that. It's like sliding into a warm bath, people say. Magic. My body just immediately, immediately relaxed, immediate loss of tension. And I was able to get a few hours of sleep, which was much needed at that point. And at that point, also ended up getting, I think a few hours later, the shakes, which no one had prepared me for, the epidural shakes. They're kind of brutal. I mean, your teeth chattering, you're shaking like you're really cold. So I was scared. No one warned me. And my nurses were like, you're fine. This is pretty common. But that meant I couldn't sleep. Finally, I was only on that epidural for, man, like three hours. and I had progressed to eight centimeters. Wow. So 10 hours, half a centimeter. Then three hours, you said, on the epidural? Maybe less. Less than eight centimeters. Yeah. That's incredible. And that's what the OB said. She was like, mean, you were so visibly tense when I came in and in so much pain. Occasionally, we do see people that just need the epidural to relax. Yeah, to relax. Because anxiety can be a big enemy of labor. Yeah. And it's like, you know, what was going through my head was, in the olden days, what would I have done? And it's like, well, in the olden days also people got sick and hurt and labor could have been very physically traumatizing. So take the interventions when you can or when you need to. But yeah, so I had progressed really fast at that point. And I'm trying to remember exactly the series of events where they wanted me to start pushing and why. One of the things I'd wanted was to labor down. I wanted to do delayed cord clamping. I want to do skin to skin. And I wanted to labor down and let my body sort of naturally start pushing. But when push came to shove, think it was maybe I had a cervical lip and like the end of my OB's session or like shift, she was about to clock out. So we did start pushing earlier than I would have liked. I pushed for like 30 minutes. I will say, I think there's a lot of stigma around pushing that it's like the most pain in the world. I found pushing to be an enormous relief. Same. Yeah, absolutely. I loved it. Yes. I felt it was productive. I'm like, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. So I loved pushing. I pushed for probably 30 minutes, but I did, I don't know if you know what it's called, because I don't, but I had a bar. ⁓ Like a squat bar? Yeah, like over the bed. Yes. And they had my legs, I was holding onto a towel. ⁓ cool. It was like gymnastics in there. That's very cool. So could you feel with the epidural? How much could you feel? Yeah, my epidural had really worn off around. Eight and a half centimeters, I think. They told me to stop pushing the button if I could. ⁓ great. So I did. And so it was, mean, by the time I delivered William, I was walking across that floor. That's amazing. No issue. I feel like that's such good advice. I wonder why hospitals don't recommend that more. get the epidural to get you through the hardest part, totally. And then maybe see if you can lean off of it when it comes time to pushing. I agree. think pushing is... is much less painful than the actual laboring. Completely. And I think it just gets a really bad rep because of how it's represented in media. Right. Exactly. And there is like grunting and screaming sometimes, but still, it's very physical act. You're bringing a life into the world. Yeah. And so I was exhausted at this point. mean, in between all of those pushes, I loved them. But then you slam back onto the bed and you're breathing hard and you're like feeling like you're running a marathon or something. But at this point, I think I finally pushed William's head out, or maybe his shoulders. I had a lot of relief. And at that point, I take a breath and I have the clarity of mind to look around and I realize that there's like 10 other doctors in the room. And I have this vague memory of her asking, can so-and-so come in? Like, this is so-and-so, can they come in? And it wasn't until later when I talked to the doula and to Tucker that I realized that things were actually way more serious in there than I thought. he was, we were getting to the end where they thought they might have to rush me to a C-section or he'd been in the birth canal for so long and showing distress. But they weren't telling me any of that, which is probably for the best. But yeah, it wasn't until he popped out such a freeing feeling. And by the way, like the pelvic pain and the back pain, everything from the pregnancy, immediate. It's crazy. I could feel the pelvic and the back pain while pushing. Gone. know. It's so Immediate. This is awesome. feeling of relief. It's amazing. Yeah, I look around and I'm like, holy shit, there's a lot of doctors in here. When all that did they get here? I know ⁓ said they could come in, but I didn't clock it. Right. ⁓ wasn't until they brought William back because he did have fluid in his lungs and stuff and wasn't crying right away. and that they all looked relieved. That I looked at Tucker and the doula and I was like, was that more serious than I thought? Yeah, and they were like, kinda, yeah, kinda. were you able to do delayed cord clamping or did they have to? We did. ⁓ Fun story there, did delayed cord clamping. Tucker, for all of the ways that we had prepared for labor and delivery, he didn't know that the dads can cut the cord. ⁓ So he didn't, panicked. They were like, do you want to cut? And he goes, what? No, he was like, I'm not a doctor. I think his actual words were like, shouldn't you do that? Like, no. And so like we still tease him about that. And then when I had Eloise, he of course did it, but he in the moment was like, what? Absolutely not. So yeah, we did delayed cord clamping. We did skin to skin. He latched really easily, got up and walked to the bathroom and recovery was really like smooth. But that whole thing from the transfer the which is the meconium in the water, the transfer, the not progressing, the needing the epidural, the having the fentanyl before that, realizing all those people are in the room, having tears and ⁓ stitched up afterward. It was just almost like an out of body experience in some ways. And one the things that I am telling a girlfriend right now who's pregnant is, yes, it was really intense. was. kind of grueling. It was not what I expected, honestly, in some bad ways. And I don't feel traumatized by it. Yeah. Which there are so many people who very validly do feel some trauma from their births. I think we're presented with such extremes, which is I have trauma from my birth, or it was the most miraculous perfect birth. Right. But the in-between, I think, is probably much more common. And that was my experience where it wasn't perfect. It was really hard. It didn't go the way I planned. And it was I'm fine. It was fine. Yeah. I totally understand that. Yeah. And I agree. think oftentimes we're presented with these two extremes and then like most things, reality is most people are in the middle. And I think too, I talking about this with someone the other day and going back to what we were saying just a minute ago. Birth It should be hard to some extent. Totally. people do have crazy orgasmic painless births. It is Hilarious stories when I read them. like, that sounds incredible. know. Great for you. Yes. It is a thing. But again, think the vast majority of us, birth is a challenge. Totally. That's okay because we are bringing a human life into the world. It's a worthwhile struggle. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. ⁓ to have some obstacles and to have to struggle and overcome them in birth, like I think that's okay. Like kind of like what you said, like totally it was hard, but that's okay. Totally. And yeah, it's just, it's one of those things that in retrospect, I'm like, wow, that was kind of a crazy experience, but he's healthy. I was healthy and it kind of worked out the way it was supposed to, given that I was already having the doubts about the birth center. Yeah. Yeah. In hindsight, 2020, I definitely think if along the way you're having concerns about the team you've picked or the environment you've picked or anything, it's worth peeling those back and investigating. You don't have to double down. There's no award. There's no trophy. Nobody's writing this down in your biography. You can just change your mind. Yeah. And you know what? You may explore it and then still decide to do the same thing. Totally. But explore that. Totally. Listen to that because it's a really important moment in life. Totally. So yeah, it was really interesting. labor and delivery and then riding that into getting pregnant with Eloise, I was so scared of something like that happening again. Not scared, just aware. Eloise's birth could not have been more opposite. That's awesome. Truly opposite. How was her pregnancy? Did you have gestational? Opposite. Easy. Did you have gestational diabetes again? Nope. That's so wild. Our ⁓ friend, when she had two different genders, she had it with one and didn't have it with the other. Really? Yeah. That's so interesting. I've never thought about it being a gender-based thing, but I suppose it could be. I don't think it is, but it's just the second time I've heard someone say they had it with one and then not the other. That's so interesting. Well, and the first time was honestly a little odd. I still don't know if I actually had it because I failed one of the tests, but then the second test I tried to complete, couldn't because I was so sick. I kept puking it up and they wouldn't let me finish the test. So I just had to proceed as though I did have it. And then how much was William when he was born? Not big. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Those ultrasounds, like whatever margin of error they give you, it's more. Yeah. I know. What do they say? Like seven to 10%. I'm like, that's definitely more 20, 25. had a ultrasound technician tell me it was more like 20%. I believe it. I mean, even with the high-risk, like specialist ultrasound where they're using the really powerful technology and like this is what they do and it's supposed to be more accurate. She was saying he was going to be like a 10-pound baby. He was like seven pounds, nine ounces. Like perfectly average. Perfectly average. size. That is a fantastic size. Perfectly freaking average. Yeah. And I was like freaking out because Tucker was nine pounds, 10 ounces. So he has some genetic history there. So I was like, this could be. This makes sense. no. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. And then how was your recovery with him? a breeze. Yeah, it was a breeze. I was so nervous about the stitches. I was so nervous about the tears. I really felt like following the rules, taking the the stool softeners, not just until your first poop, but throughout until it's like easy peasy. I took my little sitz baths. I did. I did all of the things. I will say I also got back out there really quickly. And for most women, I'd say this probably isn't wise. But working full time for my own business. It was a huge part of my identity. It was a huge part of what felt like me. I went back to work at two weeks. Wow. Yeah, part time, but still. Well, I imagine it's hard to give yourself maternity leave when you're business. It is. But I did have a big enough team back then. I could have taken more. I didn't want to, which is why whenever I talk about maternity leave, I'm like, should just be more maternity leave should be the option. Yes. But not everyone wants to take it. Definitely. my recovery was a breeze. I just jumped right back into normal life and felt great. And that worked for you. No regrets. I did have to do pelvic PT because of the scarring from where I got stitched up. And that was great. I mean, I had such a great experience with it and was able to connect with so many women on like my social media talking about the experience and being like, it is not normal to pee when you sneeze, pee when you run. It's common. Yeah. It's not normal. Well, and I think oftentimes we just martyr ourselves in the name of motherhood. We just say, oh, this is life now. I pee when I sneeze. This is life now. My abs are separated or whatever. And it doesn't have to be that way. No, completely. And pelvic PT, it's invasive, not in an uncomfortable way, but in a way that at first you're like, oh, you're putting your hand up there. the whole thing, I I had such a great experience if anyone's in the Atlanta area. Pelvic pros, Mercy, she's in Yes. With pelvic PT. I think I went to her after my first pregnancy because of you. Yeah. I remember you posting about it. She is wonderful. Pelvic pro, yeah. So pelvic PT helped a lot, helped release the scar tissue, made intimacy way more comfortable, way more achievable, and just kind of brought me back to life a little bit. And then with Eloise, I did pelvic PT going into it and throughout the pregnancy. That's so awesome. Yeah. And again, recovery was a breeze. like a million times easier, honestly. Yeah. So when you got pregnant with Eloise, what were you thinking? What were you thinking you wanted to do? The same, different? Yeah. So Eloise's pregnancy was a bit of a whirlwind because I am very fortunate to get pregnant very easily. So with William and Eloise, we talked about getting pregnant and then two weeks later we're pregnant with both. Very fortunate, but also I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this was a thought and now we've had no time to sit with it. It's happening. And Eloise's timeline is very interesting because this is when I was eight weeks pregnant, Tucker was diagnosed in kidney failure, completely out of the blue. He was also getting his MBA. So I was supporting the family financially. I was pregnant. I was terrified I was going to have an equally terrible pregnancy and that would make everything even harder. other than regular first trimester sickness, it was pretty easy. But then Tucker gets sick. And that was completely out of the blue. it happened, like the decline then from there was rapid. So he got into like an accelerated drug trial, which really helped prolong what minimal kidney function. think at that point he had like 11 % kidney function. Which is crazy. crazy. Yeah. And to people who I think didn't really know him before, say like the MBA program, he probably ⁓ looked and acted more or less fine. They probably thought he was just kind of like a quiet, chill guy. But to people who knew him, I mean, he was kind of like wasting away. Yeah. So the emotional burden of that, the physical burden of that. You have a toddler too. We have a toddler. Bearing in mind too that my job with my beauty brand is not just like a desk job. There was hours every day on my feet in shipping and production and train. Yeah. Because remember also this was 2022, COVID was still like, we were still coming off the tail end of logistics disruptions and all sorts of things that like I had to really be hands on, really hands on. And again, thank God that pregnancy was easier. I know. It was so rough with William. But yeah, what ended up happening there is I just said, if I can take the easy way out on this one, am. I called my mom and I said, I don't want to have more pain if I don't have to. I do not have the mental or emotional fortitude to take on more if I don't have to. You know, if I have a precipitous birth or something happens and it is what it is, then it is what it is. But if I can make this the easy route for myself, I will. Right. Like if you have to be induced, like any. Yeah, I'm doing it. Right. And I really loved that mentality for that pregnancy. I kind of wish I had maybe a little bit more of that with William. Yeah. But It ended up panning out great. So this time around, I decided I'm going to do a hospital, but I'm going to do a hospital that's known for low intervention and quote unquote, not a baby factory. know people kind of hate that phrase, but a very sort of like small hospital. Was it Emory? Did you do Emory? I did North Fulton. North Fulton. Okay. And so I did Nile healthcare, think Nile women's healthcare, and they deliver out of North Fulton. And it is just a calm, quiet, light, bright, merry hospital, which was so polar opposite to Atlanta Medical Center, which, you know, I don't want to say that your environment changes everything, but I think it has a big impact. a factor. mean, there's science behind it, the hormones and yeah, totally. So from the jump, I'm meeting with midwives, I'm meeting with OBs, I'm asking them my questions and their responses are like, we can do whatever you want. Yeah. Unless we have a reason to tell you no, which we'll tell you. And we'll advise you on the potential risks. But if you want something else for it, and if we can do it, we'll do it. Like this should not be a traumatic experience for you. So I even did the water birthing certification. Like the little course that you do. So they have an option to give birth in water there? ⁓ that's amazing. And I love water. I'm a water baby. I'm a Pisces. Taking baths, that is my... sweet spot. So I thought maybe I'll want to be in the water. But when push came to shove, I didn't end up using it. Yeah. But it was nice to the option. Yes. And they were really like, just keep it in your back pocket. That's so nice. It was great. Just another tool in your belt. Just another tool in the belt and just having a practice that was flexible. Yeah. Gave me so much peace of mind. But being in a hospital where I had access to the ⁓ without needing a transfer, peace of mind. It was great. Best of both worlds. Totally. So I go to 40 weeks with Eloise and I'm not effaced I'm not dilated. And I'm telling her, like, I know it's my second baby and they come faster, but also like William really clung onto dear life in there. who knows? So she says, I can let you go to 41 and that 41 will need to schedule an induction. I don't want you to go to 42. So at 41 weeks, nothing's changed. great, Eloise is setting up camp in there. At 41 and three, I go in or I'm about to go in for an induction and I get a call. And this is just a funny little insight into how hospitals work, which I learned a lot with Tucker's kidney stuff, but it's an unpredictable line of work because basically they call and they're like, we have to reschedule your induction because we had a crazy amount of spontaneous labor come in last night. talked about this in my birth story. I didn't know that if you're not having an induction for an emergency reason, you're back burner. Like, like, and I remember thinking, oh, today's the day I'm going to be induced. Like this is happening. And then it was very much like, oh, we'll see. I I was like, wait, what? I've worked this up in my head. Totally. It's such a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. So they call and they're like, can we push you back two days? Which is not what some what someone who's 41 and some change, you know, weeks pregnant and counting on induction wants to hear. get this baby out of me. You're like, I thought we didn't want to go past 41 weeks. Yeah. Hello. But yeah, they were like, had an insane amount of spontaneous labor last night. We literally don't have beds. Wow. So I got pushed to 41 and five. ⁓ wow. Yeah. Because it was 41 and three. Yeah. And they couldn't get me in. Or the midwives, they had days where their OBs were on duty and days where the midwives were on duty. I wanted a midwife, so they gave me the choice to do the OB the next day or do the midwife. So were you having to go in for like non-stress tests or anything since you were almost 42 weeks? No. Yeah. No. I think because everything was so normal for me and normal, like there was just nothing, no blips. Yeah. No blips at all. So I didn't do any stress tests, nothing. And, go in for my actual induction at 41 and five. It's like I said, light, bright, airy, small. There's no, there's no yelling. There's no running down the halls. It was just a very different experience. And, I felt so at peace. I will say as soon as we got there, I was like, my husband is in kidney failure. I promise he's not a deadbeat dad because he was like asleep half the time. But I just like wanted them to know like he's like on the verge of death. I promise you he's not just chilling. ⁓ So we get in and the OB and the midwife that were on duty right then come in. They're like, what's the plan? I had not met them before. I had rotated through most of the practice, but then I had not met. Same thing. They just reiterated, like, we're here for you. We'll advise you. We'll tell you if there's something you're saying that doesn't work. But we'll do what you want to do, girl. That's great. And so what was the induction plan? How did it go? Cytotec. OK. We did Cytotec. that's a pill, right? Yeah. It's Mesa Priestol, if I'm saying that correctly, which I had taken once before for an IUD insertion. So I think it's slightly different from What's the other one? Cervidil? Cervidil. Yeah, I think it's a little different from that in that it's more of a softening agent. I don't know if that's actually different, but yeah, we did Cytotec. It was four pills spaced out over like two hours. So two hours between each dose, which like killed a lot of time. I mean, I got there at 8 a.m. and by like 10 p.m. I was just taking my fourth dose, which was crazy. Smoothest induction known to mankind. That's awesome. I mean, linear progress, just easy, consistent. I felt so chill and relaxed the whole time. mom was there, Tucker was there, like everything about the environment and the setup went correctly. And it was right before I think the fourth dose that I started to feel some contractions. And so I felt confident that with this last dose, like this is gonna do the trick. Because I told them I really don't want Pitocin again. I had horrible back labor. And I don't know if it was from the Pitocin, but really don't want to screw with that again. ⁓ they wanted to honor that as much as possible. But also, at some point, if the Cytotec didn't work, we were going to have to explore other options. So anyways, ⁓ starts to heat up, but I'm fine. And is why, in contrast, I look back at how ⁓ hard was with William. And I'm like, no, that was not how it had to be. ⁓ And I don't think there was anything I could have done differently with William. It's more so just like sometimes the hand you're dealt is different than what you anticipated. And the amount of pain I was in then was nowhere near the amount of pain I was in at one centimeter with William. I didn't feel anything remotely comparable to that. And I didn't get the epidural with Eloise until seven centimeters. That is so wild. Crazy. Like the compare. I'm so glad that you got to have. Just knowing that you were feeling of ⁓ those feelings of shame and ⁓ now you could, I mean, never should have felt that way at all. But now, especially after having ⁓ a different experience, you can look and say like, ⁓ no, I was doing the absolute best I could. That was crazy. Yeah, it definitely allowed me to reclaim a lot of that. like ⁓ whatever narrative was coming into my at the time, and even in the aftermath of being like, was I just weak? Was I just a weak first time mom? ⁓ is not how anybody should feel, but that's how I felt. That was all gone with Eloise's labor. And I like, what? This is so not easy, but predictable and aligned with what people told me. So bouncing on the ball. I'm doing my breath work. ⁓ I'm fine. actually think in hindsight that could have been the birth that I did go unmedicated. Because at seven centimeters, I was like, I'm good. I'm good. But I didn't want. I didn't want the pain. didn't want the hardship. That's okay. Given what I'd had with William and the two hour anesthesiologist wait, I was like, let me call it in now before it gets worse, like eight and a half, nine centimeters and I'm transitioning. That anesthesiologist only took about an hour, but still it's a long time when you're in labor. Yes. So ⁓ comes in a little bit. harder of an epidural. I think the first one was so easy because I was in so much pain that this one actually kind of shocked me. You could actually feel it. I could feel it. Yeah. And I got the zings down the sides of my back and my legs. And, you know, he was like, how does that feel? Trying to test the placement. And in the end, the placement was a little off. So one side of my body was much more numb than the other. It is what it is. But again, kind of paid off in the end, which I'll get to. So at that point, the epidural is in, I think I'm like seven and a half, maybe eight centimeters. And I take a little nap, I get the shakes from the epidural, but nothing crazy. And suddenly I shoot awake, shaking, tense, and I throw up. And the nurses are like transition, baby. You are in transition, girlfriend. You are at the final stretch here. You got this. That was also the point where the side of my epidural that was weaker just went away. I can't imagine half of your body feeling something and half not. Totally discombobulated. That's so strange. It was bizarre. I kind of love it. In hindsight, I feel like I got a taste of unmedicated while also having the benefit of not full blast pain. This was so interesting to me. I'm shaking and I'm really tense through these trans, these, ⁓ transitional contractions. I'm not feeling what I would consider pain, my body is like just tensing up and like freaking out a little bit. And there's a nurse in the room and she's watching me she's looking at the screen where they're monitoring my contractions and she's looking at back at me and she's like, can I check you? And I was like, why I'm fine. And she was like, there's just, something is giving like holding back pushes vibes right now. And I was like, interesting, like maybe this tension that I'm doing, I'm like folding in on the need to push. she goes down and she's like, the head is right there. Like, do you want to do a practice push? We'll get the OB down here. And I'm like, sure, the midwife. Practice push, her head comes out. I was gonna say. Practice push, her head comes out. Oh my Everyone in the room, my mom is asleep on a little recliner. She jumps up, she goes, what's happening? It's happening. Tucker is like sitting there like rubbing sleep out of his eyes because it just escalated so fast. It went from me laying there kind of on my own being like, I'll know when it's time to push. Yeah. Not recognizing that I was, the tension was me clamping daddy. Yeah, the ejection reflex. Yes. But I was clamping it down. Do you remember how long it was between throwing up to that happening? Quick, 30 minutes. I know that once that transition happens. Yeah, it was quick. And that whole time, I did feel this escalating sense of like, I am bearing down not in the right way. I'm bearing inward. Yeah. But I just thought that that was the contraction. The pain, right? Yeah, I thought that was my body's response. It never occurred to me that I was fighting my body at that point. So interesting. Isn't that crazy? And I'm just so thankful that that nurse was like, girl, something's off here. So yeah, they saw the hair. Eloise's top of her head comes out. I do one and a half more pushes. Yeah, the body's a breeze after the head. So easy. She flies out. The OB is not in the room yet. The midwife, I keep saying OB. She's not even in the room yet. She walks in a minute later and she's like, oh, we have a baby. And I was like, surprise. I mean, Eloise came out crying. She was so just like alive that second, whereas William, there was that silence that you're like, come on, come on, baby. Put her on my chest. She latches immediately. We do our skin to skin. We do our delayed cord clamping. The midwife laughed. She was like, that's the first time anyone's phrased it like that to me. I looked down at her and I'm like wanting to know if I tore and she's, say, how's it going down there? How are things looking? And she was like, I'm not sure what to say. We just pushed a baby out. Yeah, she's like swollen. mean, I guess. But yeah, had no tears. Oh, that's amazing. baby just blew out. Wow. Yeah. Do you think part of the pelvic floor therapy was helpful in that? I think so. I think it probably, I think it certainly couldn't have hurt. I also think maybe just that second baby, more flexible tissue. They do say there's some memory there with it. Well, and I just feel like too, like throughout. as you've been talking about her birth, I feel like kind of the theme was like surrendering. Totally. And there's such like a connection between mind and body and birth. And so I feel like, you know, you had just surrendered and she just... Which is why again, I'm like, I wish I'd paid more attention to my intuition on the first, because I probably could have had something closer to my originally envisioned birth, had I maybe not forced the birth center on myself. And again, loved the birth center overall. I think it's the right fit for a lot of people. I just think I should have listened to those doubts and been like, this isn't for me. Sorry to waste your time. Bye. Yeah, Eloise was a breeze. I will say afterward, the half of my body that did have the epidural locked in, it didn't come back to life for hours, which was such a distinct change from my postpartum with William. I like didn't know how to exist in that room that they move you into the recovery room. without half of my body. I mean, I was like dragging my leg to get into the shower and go to the bathroom. Whereas with William, I really felt completely normal. That also was probably because William's pregnancy was so bad that the millisecond it was over, I just felt like a human again. With Eloise, that contrast wasn't there. ⁓ But yeah, easiest experience of my life and really smooth recovery. did pelvic PT again with her, but I knew what to expect and I was doing the exercises and had the tools already for, in my case, high tone pelvic floor. ⁓ was a breeze. That's so amazing. The kind of birth that makes you wanna have ⁓ ⁓ mean, I was texting my friends right before, right after being like, ⁓ starting and it's done. And that was like enjoyable from start to finish. ⁓ I'm so glad you got that redemptive ⁓ experience. Yeah, I can't say enough good things about that whole experience from start to finish and just being with the right team, having the comfort of my options available to me, I think for my headspace did a lot for me. But a lot of it's a lot of it, as you know, is just luck of the draw. Yeah, totally. Luck of the draw. It's funny, though, because on a previous episode of yours, I'd heard you say something that I went into Eloise's birth with direct quote verbatim. Yeah. Where I said this time, I'm not going in with the birth plan. I'm going in with birth preferences. And I really feel like that made a big difference mentally. It did. And thank God it was an easier pregnancy and delivery because what, two months later, Tucker got his transplant. ⁓ my goodness. So the fact that the recovery was just a breeze made everything else so much easier. Truly. I mean, it's like one battle at a time. Can we have one thing on our plate? Yes. Just once. Yes. Just one by one. yeah, really ⁓ experiences in completely different ways. Wow. And in the end, two healthy, happy children. ⁓ Tucker is healthy now too. He is. He's got a kidney transplant. His best friend Spencer from Georgia Tech donated his kidney. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah. I can't imagine having a newborn baby, a toddler, and going through all that. Yeah, it was wild. Yeah. And running a business. Yeah, we really leaned heavily on family. know, my mom stayed with us for a while. His parents stayed with us for a while, especially my mom stayed with us when I was recovering postpartum. His parents stayed with us when he was recovering from the surgery. And that actually has been really helpful. I think for a long time I had an approach of like, this is my home and my space and I don't really want people in it. Same thing with postpartum recovery, but knowing going into it that I was going to need the help with Tucker, it's just completely changed my mind on accepting help. Yeah. I was talking about this. had a postpartum doula, Penny, I adore on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. And we were talking about like, why is it so hard for us to accept help as new mothers, as women? And again, like going back to kind of how things have changed culturally, like in the past, there was so much intergenerational living, you know, and now we're so isolated in our individual family units. And so it just feels a little bit more natural. then when you do have the opportunity to lean into that, it can be really beautiful. It's really beautiful. And as I was telling you before we started this episode, you we're currently living with my in-laws while we're in between houses. And I actually was just talking about how much I understand now the beauty of multi-generational households and communities. mean, I grew up living with my grandparents till I was, they lived with us till we were 16 ish. So it's also not an unfamiliar concept to me, but having that support and accepting it feeling like the right thing to do and not feeling like this is a burden on anybody was just so magical. I did lay down some laws though, which was out of character for me. Like I had a little binder that was like for the first three days, I'm not leaving this bed. Don't ask me to. For the next three days, at least I just want to be in bed most of the day. don't I don't want to have to do anything else. And I specified like, I don't want to have to think about groceries or kitchen. Like, I don't want to have to think about laundry. I don't want to have to wash a dang bottle. Yeah, like I don't want to do anything. That's how it should be. Yes. And I think that was intuitive for everybody. But just having more people in the space. I was like, let me be clear about this upfront. Yeah, because I'm chill in so many ways sometimes to a detriment that I was like, let me just set the groundwork. And I just chilled. Good for you. It was amazing. know that's hard for personalities like us that are more of like a host type at all times. 100%. It's really hard to turn it off and let people just turn that off and not feel rude. You guys can figure it all out. Yeah. And I'm the one that you can wait on during this time, which it does feel kind of like bratty behavior, but- No. It makes such a difference. And I think the recovery was even smoother for having those very clear, like, I'm not leaving this head. I'm just going to feed my baby, bring my meals to me, refill my water. Yes. Easy peasy. Have you read the book The First 40 Days? Yeah. Yes. That's kind of the whole idea. like you really, after you have a baby, that fourth trimester, the first 40 days after your baby is born, you should be taken care of. Absolutely. And celebrated. And pampered. And all the things. you and your baby should just be in this bubble. And it's not realistic for so many reasons. for a lot of people, myself included. But a girl can dream. A girl can dream. But hey, three days is better than none. Totally. And then those next three, was like, I'm going to start moving to come down the stairs if I want to join you guys for breakfast. I might go on a brief walk if I feel up for it, but don't expect anything of me. Yes. And that was great. That's amazing. It was awesome. So we also hired a night nurse, a night nanny that go around because, again, Tucker didn't get his transplant until Two months postpartum and those two months you had the newborn era, which is already tough. And then you have Tucker at that point, 9 % kidney function and withering away. So tired all the time. He's not doing nighttime duty. No, yeah. But bless him, did. He tried. at six weeks postpartum, we brought in the nighttime nurse, postpartum doula, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. She was amazing. I had the best experience. get so many questions of like, how would you ever feel comfortable with that? Oh, I loved. Yeah, it was like, it wasn't a concern for me at all. No, no. It was amazing. Take the wins where you can. Absolutely. So you did that too. Yeah. So with, had a postpartum doula both times, Penny, that woman I referenced and she's been on the podcast and she was there more so for me and also to help me like with breastfeeding and things like that. But then with our second, we did have a night nurse as well. Magic. Magic. And I remember we muscled through without one with Kit. And we talked about it the second time around. And we were like, again, no one's giving out awards. Totally. No one's giving out awards. It allowed me to be more present for Kit, for our older son, because I wasn't so anxious. And I remember those nights that she came. was like, I would be so excited the whole day. I'd be like, oh, it's a night, nice night. Like, we're gonna get to sleep some and It was glorious. I completely get it. And I've recommended it to so many people. Like if you have the means and it's interesting to you, it is such a valid path to pursue. And screw what negative feedback people have to give you on it. I remember talking about this once more publicly and there was an older woman, I think from a different mentality who was was pissed at the concept of a young mom not getting up every single time with her baby. And I just remember being like, in a past life, I probably would have argued with her. Just didn't respond. She blew me up a few more times. And I just remember thinking, it's not my problem. And you're not going to understand my position anyway. To each their own. To each their own. Also, you were going through everything with Tucker. My husband had a week of paternity leave. as much as he would have loved to have helped, He needed to get sleep too, like it's limited. so, you know, everyone's circumstances are different. Totally. And it's just not anyone else's really business like that. anyways, we had a magical postpartum experience with her and with all of the extra help. I'm just so thankful it all worked out the way that it did. Oh, I'm so glad. That's such a beautiful, like you're just grinning. I can just see like it was. Just from the start of Eloise's story, all the way through postpartum, it's just been like, yeah. It's a classically good labor and delivery story, which sometimes we don't hear enough of. And yet at the same time, it was an induction. And that's why I think it's good to talk about too. And I filmed a vlog of it. Yeah. I love the link to that. Yeah, that one went viral because the comments were all like, I'm so terrified of my induction. This is so reassuring to see. And that's how I felt as well. everything I'd ever heard and read and then my own Pitocin experience had me convinced that I was somehow ⁓ making a mistake again. But there's a lot of women out there, you just don't hear about them because it went fine. And people don't talk about fine experiences. I know that's exactly one of the things I want to address on the podcast is so often the sensational stories are the ones we hear and yes, they are entertaining and you you can't look away but it's so important to hear the easy ones too or the simple ones or the straightforward ones and especially under circumstances like induction. And I do think sometimes, you know, like it was your second baby. I think that helps. Absolutely. You were almost 42 weeks. ⁓ All those factors. there, which ⁓ a huge difference to me. So all the things. But no, it's so important to hear the good, beautiful, quote unquote, easy ones too. Yeah. It's so wonderful. I love these stories. ⁓ you so much for doing this. Thank you for having me. Of course. Before you go. ⁓ Will you describe birth to me in three words? I always like to finish that way. I love it. I would say empowering, liberating, and those have overlap, but I view them very differently. transformative. Those would be my three words. What an empowering experience to bring a human into the world and to get through things that feel really hard and intense. What a liberating experience to I feel, you know, in a quite literal way, being bared to the world. I had all these doctors in the room. I let med students into the room with William. I feel after that, ⁓ gosh, I didn't even mention this part, but after my births, mean, I had all these photos close up, right? And those have been distributed to so many people who texted me being like, do you mind if I shared this with a friend who's going through this? And then that friend would text and be like, can I share this with my sister? And it didn't matter that I was like unshaved, unwaxed, like this is all up in my business. It was just so liberating to be like, this is kind of what it's meant to be. I love that. You know what I mean? Yes. I loved it. And then very transformative, you know, the who you are before and the who you are after. It's you don't lose yourself, but the matressence is very real. ⁓ and the coming into this new version of yourself. It's incredible. Yes, I love that. I'm like really still marinating on liberating because I think that ⁓ one that I haven't heard. ⁓ ⁓ important and so cool. is liberating. You're liberated from these kind of, I think, cultural norms of shame or modesty, and not everyone is, but I did have that experience as well. And that's just, that's beautiful. I love it. Yeah. And I do, you probably agree with this. It's liberating being a parent to see your own childhood through a different lens, to be able to do things differently as a parent to, there's just so many aspects of it that I find liberating and freeing and like stepping into the next version. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, thank you. really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Of course. You've been listening to the Arrivals podcast. Until next time. Thank you. Cute, cute, cute. You have such