Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 1-3) (6/8/26)

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Mega Edition: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 1-3) (6/8/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
0:03
Epstein Chronicles. As we continue to explore the death of
0:08
Jeffrey Epstein, we have another deposition from a staff member
0:13
from MCC. However, we have no idea who this person is.
0:18
All that we know is that they're a captain. So
0:23
we're going to skip the part where they explain all
0:26
the stuff about their military service previously and what they
0:30
were doing before they joined the Bureau of Prisons, and
0:33
we're going to pick up with the conversation as they
0:36
start discussing this captain and his time at the MCC. Question, great,
0:43
and when did you graduate from BOP training down at
0:46
the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center? I believe it was redacted.
0:50
Question Okay, we don't have to go through it, or
0:53
I guess just briefly. I mean, what positions have you
0:55
held with the BOP. You don't have to go into
0:58
each institution. Answer right. I started as five step one,
1:04
I have with more responsibility. I was promoted to A
1:07
through six seven Senior Officer Specialist. I was also a
1:12
GL nine, a lieutenant GL eleven Lieutenant. I was a
1:15
deputy captain GL twelve. I was also GL thirteen and
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currently I am at GL twelve redacted at FCI four Dix.
1:25
Question all right, great, and is it correct that you
1:28
used to work at the MCC in New York City.
1:32
Answer that's correct. Question all right? And what were your
1:35
positions when you were at the MCC? Answer MCC? I
1:39
was the captain. Question okay? And from what dates were
1:42
you the captain? Question or answer? Excuse me? I was
1:46
the captain from September of I believe it was the
1:48
third twenty eighteen, all the way until June twenty fifth
1:52
of twenty twenty. Question okay, great? And then was that
1:55
your first assignment as a captain? Answer? My first assignment
1:59
as a captain was I was a deputy captain at
2:02
MDC Brooklyn. Question okay, and then you got promoted and
2:06
went to MCC. Answer yeah. Question and what does the
2:10
MCC stand for? Answer the Metropolitan Correctional Center question perfect
2:18
and located at one fifty Park Row, New York, New York.
2:21
Answer that's correct. Question, thank you, sir. And as a captain,
2:26
who would you consider your supervisor when you were at
2:28
the MCC. Answer it would be at that point at
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that time we were transitioning. Question okay? Answer so I
2:37
would normally, I would say to two people, which would
2:40
be the aw of custody, which at that time was redacted.
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However he was transitioning when the incident happened, it was
2:48
Redacted was the aw over custody at that time? Question
2:53
all right, so when you're talking about that time, are
2:56
you talking about August ninth and August tenth of twenty nineteen.
3:00
Answer that's correct. Question Okay, So are you aware of
3:04
redacted was still the aw in charge of custody at
3:07
the time? Answer no, question she was not? Okay? Answer no,
3:12
Basically what it was again with the area of responsibility,
3:16
it had changed prior to this incident, so that week
3:19
redacted was going to be even though her responsibility had
3:23
changed as the aw over custody and Redacted had appointed
3:28
or instructed that Redacted would then take over the responsibilities.
3:32
But however, she was supposed to go on annual leave.
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Question okay. Answer, so at the time Misredacted was actually
3:40
there as far as she was still in the capacity
3:43
when the incident happened. Question okay, answer however, again the
3:47
previous question that you asked, Normally, as my responsibility, I
3:52
would notify the aw over custody, and also I would
3:55
have conversations with the warden. So it would just depend
3:59
on what the situation may be. So if there was
4:02
instance where I would run things through the chain from
4:06
the AW to the warden, and there were times that
4:09
I would take direction directly from the warden. Question okay,
4:13
And as far as though in this instance, if you know,
4:16
being that August ninth and tenth, I believe that the
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first person you contacted when you were he interrupts was redacted.
4:26
Question correct, and that was because the other AW was out.
4:30
Is that what you're saying? Question? My belief is that
4:33
she was on annual leave, which was stated that we
4:36
had closed out on that friday that you would be
4:39
starting annual leave. Question okay, but as the other AW
4:42
was in fact you're supervisor at the time. Answer yeah,
4:46
question okay, which you just said was you went with
4:49
redacted because she was on answer? That's right? Question okay?
4:54
Have you since learned anything about like was that not correct? Answer? Well,
5:01
what I realized is that once the incident had occurred,
5:04
redacted or responded to the institution at which time her
5:07
annual leave. I believe she canceled her annual leave and
5:10
she assumed her position as theaw over custody. Question all right,
5:15
how do you spell her last name this whole next section? Redacted?
5:19
Question perfect? Thank you? All right? So is it correct
5:23
that you were interviewed by agents of the FBI and
5:26
the DOJOIG back when this instance occurred in August of
5:30
twenty nineteen. Answer that's correct. Question great. I'm just going
5:35
to go over the report that was written in response
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to their conversation with you. Answer, okay. Question, We just
5:43
want to go over for accuracy as well as to
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fill in some gaps that we found that we just
5:48
need some clarification on. So I'm just going to read
5:51
it and you stop me if there's anything that you
5:53
find to be inaccurate. So you began his career with
5:56
the BOP in two thousand and five, fourteen, he was
6:01
transferred to the Metropolitan Detention Center MDC in Brooklyn to captain.
6:05
At MDC his current position where he over or sorry? Answer? Yeah,
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there's a lot missing in between there. Question yeah, yeah,
6:15
So it says in Brooklyn. I miss this line. It
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says where he was made deputy captain in twenty fifteen.
6:22
In twenty eighteen, redacted was promoted to captain at MCC
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his current position. Answer, well, yeah, there was a little
6:32
bit missing there because yeah, I entered on duty and
6:35
I started my career in redacted. However I left redacted
6:38
in redacted and that's when I went to redacted. Question okay, answer,
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and then from redacted to redacted. I was there to
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twenty fourteen, and then from fourteen I left redacted to
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go to MDC Brooklyn, and then in eighteen that's when
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I assume duties at MCC. Question okay, so they have
7:00
so I guess you were transferred to the MDC in
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Brooklyn twenty fourteen, and in twenty fifteen was when you
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were promoted to deputy captain. Answer that's correct. Question okay.
7:12
It says redacted directly supervises approximately redacted lieutenants. Does that
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compromise of all the lieutenants this was at the time,
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was that all the lieutenants at the MCC Answer correct
7:27
question okay, And has approximately redacted line staff correctional officers
7:32
under his purview? Answer? Uh huh. Well, when you know
7:38
when they say that, what they understand is that under
7:42
correctional services, that was probably the amount of staff that
7:46
was again in correctional services as subordinate staff. However, my
7:50
direct supervision would have been over just the redacted lieutenants. Question, Okay,
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there are oh redacted lieutenants, right? I thought you were
7:59
saying thirteen? Gotcha? Redacted also sits on the institutions redacted,
8:05
which also includes the warden. Redacted's primary duty is to
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ensure that security protocols are met by his lieutenants and substaff,
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and that policy guidelines are being followed as set forth
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by the GOP. Answer correct question. Among others, redacted is
8:24
responsible for the following special housing unit Lieutenant redacted? Is
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that correct? Answer? Correct question? As an administrative lieutenant responsible
8:35
for maintaining paperwork, et cetera. So when you say an
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administrative lieutenant, here are you saying whoever was acting in
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the administrative lieutenant capacity? Answer? No, I wasn't. Basically administrative duties,
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the administrative duty falls under the appointed shoe lieutenant. The
8:52
shoe lieutenant, the appointed chee lieutenant, has certain duties that
8:56
have to be done daily within the unit, not just
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the supervision of the line staff that worked the unit,
9:02
but also over all of the running unit, meaning that
9:07
ensuring that all the paperwork is done question okay. Answer,
9:11
All security protocols are followed to ensure that inmates or
9:15
run rosters, to ensure that inmates are placed in the
9:17
correct cells or in the proper cells, to ensure that
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they're supposed to audit said rosters, to ensure they have
9:23
proper accountability of the inmates in the unit. Question So,
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I guess what I was getting at is like how
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the shoe lieutenant was redacted? Was there a specific person
9:33
that was the administrative lieutenant? Answer? Yeah, the administrative lieutenant
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at the time was redacted. Question and you happen to
9:43
know how to spell that last name? Answer it's redacted?
9:47
Question thank you, sir an sis lieutenant responsible for paperwork?
9:52
And who is that? Answer which was the lieutenant? Redacted?
9:58
Question and redacted? Common spell answer? Yeah, question okay? And
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operations in activities lieutenants? Answer which on the day of
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the incident? Question yeah? And would you like to see
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the duty roster for August ninth and August tenth? Answer yeah?
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Question no, okay, do you know who it was? Answer?
10:20
So I believe the morning Watch lieutenant when the incident
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occurred was lieutenant. What is her damn name? I just
10:26
said her name? Question I can show you this answer. Yeah. Question,
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So I'm showing you a duty agent roster from a
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daily assignment roster from Friday, August ninth, twenty nineteen, as
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well as one from Saturday, August tenth, twenty nineteen, and
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you can keep them in front of you for the interview,
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just so you can. We're going to talk about people,
10:47
so you can reference the two answer right, all right,
10:50
so it appears here it would have been redacted. Would
10:53
have been the operations lieutenant on Saturday, August tenth, twenty nineteen.
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Question and is it redacted? Answer redacted? Question yeah, lane, perfect,
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And what time did you work from? Answer at the
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time the shift they were working is a different schedule.
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The schedule was I believe it was ten to six question. Okay,
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so ten to six on August ninth to six hundred
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on August tenth. Answer, that's correct. Question. And then I'm
11:24
assuming there was another administrative lieutenant at the you know,
11:28
the when Epstein was discovered, and I think that was
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a little after six am. Correct answer that is, yeah,
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that was actually the operations lieutenant which was redacted. Lieutenant redacted.
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He informed me or I guess he became aware of
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the incident I believe at six point thirty in the morning.
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Question okay, and so I already asked the operations lieutenant.
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It says the Operations Lieutenant and the Activities Lieutenant are
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responsible for day to day operations and maintaining order for
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three shifts in an emergency preparedness lieutenant a collateral duty
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responsibility in the event of an emergency incident such as fires, bombs, threats,
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et cetera. So is there during these instances? Was there
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emergency preparedness lieutenant? Answer? Yes? Question Who was that answer?
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I believe it was Lieutenant redacted? All right, folks, we're
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going to wrap up right here, and then the next
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episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
12:25
we left off. All of the information that goes with
12:28
this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
12:33
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
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this episode, we're going to pick up where we left
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off with the interview with the captain from MCC Question
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was redacted off that Deabo? Answer redacted? Was I believe
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at the time his schedule of the shoe lieutenants were
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not working on the weekends. Answer or question okay. Answer,
13:00
they work Monday through Friday. I believe it was seven
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thirty to four. Question okay, answer, so redacted was on
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military he was on leave. He had military leave because
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he had his monthly drill monthly drill that he would attend.
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Question Okay, do you know if he was on leave
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both on August ninth and August tenth or August tenth
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you said he wouldn't have worked, but was on August ninth? Answer?
13:25
Let me see here, question and you can just say
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was he on the schedule? Answer? Yeah, So, I mean,
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right here, I'm looking at the roster for Friday, August ninth,
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and I believe that the shoe lieutenant Post was left
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unassigned for that Friday. Question all right, so that would
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just lead us to believe he was not there. Correct answer,
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that's correct, He was not there, no question. Great, And
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would his position have been, like, you know, was there
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someone that was placed in the acting role when he
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was gone? Answer? Normally, due to our staffing at MCC
13:59
at that point or at that time, we tried to
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ensure that, you know, looking over the roster to ensure
14:05
that someone was within there the supervising unit. But again
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due to the shortage of lieutenants at the time, I
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had to as monitoring or looking at the roster, I
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would try to place areas of importance, so Operations Lieutenant
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ensured that the activities lieutenant was filled and at the
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time that particular day he wasn't on the roster or
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that post was left unassigned. Question and that post, like
14:30
you said, isn't assigned on the weekends. Answer no question
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so Saturday. Great answer, No, it's not question all right.
14:38
Redacted advice that his staff provides special consideration for high
14:42
profile inmates if deemed appropriate and designated as such. In
14:47
order to ensure an inmate is provided with proper care,
14:51
The facility evaluates the inmate using several measures, including mental, physical, medical, psychological,
14:58
and sexual assault, victim or predator assessments. Since different inmates
15:03
are admitted with different criteria, appropriate housing varies. Answer correct question,
15:10
all right. Redacted interacted with inmate Jeffrey Epstein on approximately
15:15
three occasions at MCC, all of which Epstein maintained a
15:19
pleasant demeanor. Answer correct question. During the first instance, Ebstein
15:26
asked redacted who he was, and Redacted responded by introducing
15:30
himself and explaining his position at the jail. During another instance,
15:35
redacted explained to Abstein the policy regarding meals during attorney
15:39
sessions and made certain that Epstein was accommodated with water,
15:43
visits to the restroom, etc. So did he receive and
15:47
I know it's my understanding that he was most days
15:51
in with his attorneys. Answer yes, so most days from
15:54
the time that attorney visitation would open, inmate Ebstein was
15:58
in that area primary until it closed. Question all right,
16:02
and that's where it says Epstein spent most of the
16:05
day with his defense counsel and was brought down as
16:09
soon as the attorney visit opened. So would that be
16:12
like Monday through Friday or monday that seven days a week?
16:17
Answer that seven days a week? Question? All right? So
16:20
was it almost every day? Answer? Every day? Question? And
16:25
his food was brought to him there? Then? Answer no question? Okay,
16:29
how would you obtain his food? Answer? Now, as far
16:33
as food, I know, and like I said, it's been
16:35
a while. Normally inmates do not eat while they're in visitation.
16:40
Question Okay. Answer, they're provided water, they're provided to go
16:44
to the bathroom. The inmate, you know, is afforded the meal. However,
16:48
I believe that he was offered meals from the vending machine,
16:52
but I'm not sure. Question okay. Answer. I can't remember
16:56
as far as because I didn't remember there was an
16:58
issue with that, and I know you tried to accommodate
17:01
or address it. I just can't remember what was done.
17:05
Question Would the attorneys be allowed to bring in food? Answer?
17:08
No question no answer No, No outside food would have
17:14
been allowed in question okay? Answer, So I can tell
17:18
you if he was actually getting a tray during that time,
17:21
I can't remember, but I do remember there were conversations
17:25
that and I know we did something in order to
17:27
ensure that the inmate was provided some type of meal
17:30
or whatever. I can't remember. Question sure, all right, that's fine.
17:37
As far as the mentions to visits, do you remember
17:39
anything about the third visit that you made with Epstein? Answer?
17:44
The third one? So that night on that would be Friday,
17:47
August ninth of twenty nineteen. I believe I had worked
17:51
that day close to eight It was about eight or so.
17:55
Question eight pm? Answer eight pm. Question okay, answer, So
18:00
I was actually on my way and exited, you know,
18:03
went and talked to the operations and activities lieutenants, you know,
18:07
let them know. I was leaving for the day. And
18:09
when I reached the elevator on the third floor, inmate
18:12
Ebstein was being escorted out of the attorney visit by
18:15
his unit manager. Question okay, and who was that? Answer?
18:20
Which that was? I believe redacted? At which time I,
18:25
you know, I said hello, how you doing, mister Epstein?
18:27
And he was like okay. So he had asked me
18:30
and he said, Captain, is it okay if I got
18:32
a telephone call? Now? Mind you, we had already discussed
18:36
that when the inmate, he would reasonably attempt to always
18:39
facilitate a phone call for the inmate, especially while him
18:43
being housed in the shoe. So I said to the redacted,
18:47
I said, redacted, are you going to the shoe? He
18:49
said yeah. I said, well, are you going to be
18:52
able to monitor the call with the inmate? And he
18:54
was like yeah, I got no problem with that. I said, well,
18:58
I don't have a problem. Just make sure that you
19:00
follow the protocols. And the protocol is that when the
19:03
inmate is allowed to use the phone, it has to
19:05
be monitored by staff, and the number and who they're
19:08
talking to has to be placed in a log. Question okay. Answer,
19:13
so I said, make sure that takes place. I'm good
19:16
with it. So that's when I got in the elevator
19:19
and I exited the institution. Question all right, so this
19:23
conversation happened with redacted in front of mister Epstein. Answer
19:27
yes it did. Question okay, and that's the point where Okay,
19:31
So did you authorize that call to be made from
19:34
the shoe answer yes. Question was there a certain line
19:38
that they should have used? Answer? Yes, it's a secure line.
19:42
You have two lines. You know. You can plug it
19:44
in to the outgoing and then it's the jack that's
19:47
just for inside of the institution calls, or you can
19:50
put it into the other jack, which allows those calls
19:53
to be outgoing. Question would the call have been a
19:57
legal line? Answer yeah, it would be just an out
20:01
This would be an out question okay, answer outline. And
20:07
they're not recorded, is the question? Answer? Right? Question? And
20:12
that's why you said make sure they get cut off
20:16
by the guard. Yeah, and did you tell them at
20:19
all the document that was cut off? Again? Yes, I
20:22
told him to ensure that he is present that the
20:25
protocol of what the protocol is, because I asked him
20:29
I said, look, I said, make sure that you're present
20:31
at the phone call. I said, make sure that it's logged.
20:35
And when you dial the number, the number you have
20:37
to like stann the line and he said, he says, well,
20:40
I want to call him my attorney. Who is your attorney?
20:43
So on and so on? Okay, When they answer the phone,
20:46
I said, this is mcc my name is so and
20:49
so I have a call for Jeffrey Epstein. What is
20:53
your name and what is your title? So we can
20:55
log it and the time that it's logged. And then
20:59
you give the phone to the inmate, and then you
21:01
sit there while they're on the phone. Question and you
21:06
know if that was done? Answer again, I don't know. Question,
21:09
you don't know. Answer. I just insured that's it, Like
21:13
I said, That's why I asked him. I said, are
21:16
you going to the shoe? Are you going to be
21:17
able to monitor the phone call? Question? But you don't know.
21:23
He gets cut off by the guard. He didn't say yes.
21:27
Question if he wrote anything up? Answer, I don't know
21:30
what he did. Question Okay, answer. I just ensured that
21:33
I told him question sure, answer what needed to be done?
21:38
Question and what would typically happen with that log after
21:42
he logged it. Answer the phone call question? Sure answer
21:48
or that log question like after he documented it? Answer,
21:52
it would be maintained just in a log question okay answer.
21:57
It wouldn't be brought for anyone's review, you know. It
22:00
would just be like, hey, did Epstein get a call? Yeah,
22:03
I could tell you, so I can pull the book
22:06
and then I can tell you and look when he
22:08
was given a call. Question So it goes into a
22:10
specific Epstein file? Answer? Yeah, no, it wouldn't. It doesn't
22:15
go into a file. It goes into a book. It
22:17
goes into a book for monitored calls for all the
22:20
inmates and legal calls. Question for all inmates. So not
22:24
just Epstein. Answer, that's correct. It would be a green logbook,
22:29
you know, and it would have the name of the
22:30
inmate and who they called, the number, the time. I
22:33
don't know if the duration is on there, but it
22:35
will be a person who also monitored the call, so
22:38
you know all that information. But it wasn't something like
22:42
a form that was filled out and then it was
22:44
placed in the inmates file or a central file. Question
22:48
and do you know if that logbook was filled out? Answer?
22:52
I don't know. Question you don't know. Okay, when you
22:55
met with Epstein on that night, how is his demeanor? Answer?
22:59
It was fine, cheerful question he was cheerful answer. You know,
23:03
he didn't look disheveled because I asked him, I said,
23:06
how you doing? You all right? He said, man, I'm good.
23:09
Everything is fine. And I said, do you have a
23:11
good visit? He said, yeah, everything is fine. Cap I said,
23:14
all right, man. Question okay, no cause for concern. Answer no,
23:20
because every time we had that interaction it was always pleasant.
23:23
He was never negative. Question okay. It says redacted was
23:27
made aware of the possibility of that Epstein would be
23:30
housed at MCC in advance of Epstein's arrival. Redacted was
23:35
not present when Epstein was admitted to the facility. Epstein
23:39
was thoroughly vetted to determine if he was fit for
23:41
general population, and he was ultimately placed in the special
23:45
housing unit. MCC places inmates under three categories of close supervision,
23:51
one dry cell for those at risk of smuggling contraband,
23:54
two psychological observation and three suicide watch. Is all correct?
24:00
Answer yeah at the time. Question okay, So who made
24:04
the decision to place him in the special housing unit
24:06
specifically and why? Answer okay. So basically, the rationale replacement
24:13
of the inmate and the special housing unit would have
24:16
been a decision that was ultimately made by the warden.
24:20
They would have took the critical or criteria of the inmate.
24:23
They would have been okay, well, what's his risk? You know,
24:27
what would the likelihood of him being endangered if he
24:30
would be placed in general population? His culpability? Can he
24:34
cope while being inside of a general housing unit? So
24:37
the determination was between medical health services, Oh, I'm sorry,
24:42
health services, psychology and the warden question and who was
24:46
the warden at the time? Answer it was redacted question?
24:50
And do you know how to spell that last name?
24:52
Answer it would be redacted question, Thank you sir. Are
24:56
there any other secure housing units within the MCC Answer?
25:01
There is only one secured housing unit, that's the shoe.
25:04
All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
25:06
in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
25:08
pick up where we left off. All the information that
25:11
goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
25:16
What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
25:19
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna pick up where
25:22
we left off with the Captain from MCC and his
25:26
interview with the OIG inspectors. Question is there any other
25:32
secure housing unit within the MCC? Answer there is only
25:36
one secured housing unit. That's the shoe question okay, not
25:42
he gets caught off by the captain. But however, we
25:45
do have ten South and ten South is for I
25:49
believe those are for the SALM in mates, and those
25:53
inmates are under a specialized monitoring which comes from I
25:57
believe it's from the Attorney General. I believe I can't
26:01
remember who the person is that's over it, but I
26:03
believe that it was the Attorney General or whoever makes
26:06
that determination for those SAM inmates. Question okay, and what
26:11
does SAM stand for? Answer? I believe I can't remember.
26:15
Question okay, but is it like sa MS? Answer that's correct.
26:20
Question okay, like an acronym. Answer it's an acronym. Question okay,
26:26
And that is not made by anyone at the MCC.
26:29
That's made by the Attorney General. Answer yeah, question all right.
26:35
Was there any discussion of placing Epstein in one of
26:37
those units? Answer? No? Question could he have been placed
26:41
in one of those units? Answer? I'm sure he could
26:44
have question, but I mean by executive staff or would
26:49
they have to have made a call to he gets
26:51
cut off. Answer. I believe they would have had to
26:55
make special concessions for the inmate. Answer okay. Question they
26:59
would have to you know, vetom and someone would have
27:02
to approve it, I believe outside the executive staff at
27:05
MCC Question okay, And then that's where I meant by
27:09
is the executive staff able to independently answer? No, we
27:14
are not. Question okay. Were there are many inmates housed
27:18
within ten South at the time? Answer no. I believe
27:22
at the time we may have had a total of
27:24
four to five. Of course, you know, we had the
27:27
notorious Joaquin Guzman up there, El Chappo. We also had
27:31
the apple Puff Phenetic was up there. We also had
27:34
inmate it starts with an S. I can't remember his name,
27:38
but basically, these are inmates that have made crimes against
27:41
the United States, which it was deemed that those inmates
27:45
would be in that special management unit and they couldn't
27:48
of course go to the general population. Question was this
27:52
like a terrorist type of people? Answer? I would say
27:55
some of them are terrorists. You know. Of course you
27:57
had Joaquin Guzman was up there as kingpin, drug kingpin.
28:02
He couldn't go on a general population unit. Answer sure, question,
28:06
he would go normally, Guys like that would be in
28:09
a place where I come from before, you know, he
28:12
would be at a DX. I believe that a pop
28:16
I think that was his name, a Popov or a Popo.
28:20
These guys had made terrorist threats against the United States,
28:24
or there were guys up there that had material or
28:27
that was found in cooperation with outside agencies that were
28:31
trying to detriment of indiscernible and cause harm to the
28:35
United States. These kinds of guys, they were the ones
28:39
that were put in the unit. Answer sure, question. Guys
28:42
you wouldn't want in general population because of their recruitment,
28:46
their value, or their radical ability that they could be
28:49
able to have recruitment value for you know, for other
28:53
inmates and general population. You don't want those guys in there.
28:57
Answer yeah, question, But Jeffrey Epstein, you know he's a
29:00
multi billionaire. Question sure Now, as far as ten South,
29:05
is that one inmate per sel? Answer yeah, question and
29:09
video monitored at all times? Answer yes. Question. Okay, so
29:14
it's like you're a maximum security type answer that type
29:19
would be the highest security that an inmate at MCC
29:22
could be placed in question okay, answer yeah, could be
29:27
placed in yeah. Question, but the executive team never discussed
29:30
that answer no question okay, redacted Advice that Epstein preferred
29:36
not to have a cell mate and engaged in manipulative
29:39
behavior to avoid having one. What type of behavior? Answer?
29:44
I believe that Epstein, and when I first came in,
29:47
he was doing self manipulative behavior. You know, he was
29:51
showing passive resistant activity as far as you know, when
29:55
they're taking meals, or wouldn't listen to staff, as far
29:58
as when they're giving him direction. You know, he would
30:01
sit in his cell and he wouldn't talk. I believe
30:04
he wasn't taking meals. At one point, he was refusing
30:07
to take showers, things of that nature. Question and the
30:11
sentence continues, including requesting to see a psychologist. Answer yeah,
30:16
question is that part of it? Answer? Yeah? Question okay?
30:20
Did he say why he wanted to see a psychologist? Answer?
30:23
I don't know. Question No answer, I remember that, No question. Sure.
30:29
At Epstein's request, he was interviewed by a psychologist. Do
30:33
you know who he made that request to? Would it
30:35
have been a shoe staff. Answer. He probably would have
30:39
made those requests to any of the staff that may
30:41
have been monitoring him at the time, because if he
30:44
was placed on psychological observation at the time, psychological observation,
30:49
you would have had to have staff person that sat
30:53
there and monitored the inmate. Another inmate couldn't have monitored him.
30:58
Question Okay, and that is is that like twenty four
31:01
to seven answer? That would have been twenty four hours
31:04
of that seven days a week question. So a staff
31:07
member would just sit there and watch answer correct question,
31:12
communicate with him or no answer? Yeah, of course. Question okay, answer.
31:19
I mean that's you know, encouraged even though the inmate's
31:22
placed in that situation. Again, we're talking about humanity here.
31:27
Question uh huh. Answer. You know you want to gage
31:30
this guy's mental acuity, meaning that the inmate. You want
31:33
to know how he's feeling, how he's doing. Answer sure,
31:38
question is he improving or is he declining? Because if
31:41
he's declining and you can actually see it, you want
31:44
to contact somebody. You know, if this guy is in
31:46
there being very very you know, belligerent, he's being passive
31:50
aggressive or active resistant or displaying signs of violence. You
31:54
want to make sure you notify someone. You're not going
31:57
to just sit there and allow this guy to do
31:59
self harm to himself and door staff when they come
32:02
to the door to provide his services, you know, such
32:06
as taking him to shower, providing his meals, providing his
32:09
medication or whatever it is. So you just don't want
32:12
to sit there and allow this inmate just you know,
32:15
if he's going to be detrimentally, could be harmed to
32:18
staff or himself, you want to ensure that you notify someone. Answer, okay. So,
32:23
following that assessment, Epstein was initially placed on suicide Watch.
32:28
He was later interviewed again and downgraded to psychological observation.
32:33
Now just for the suicide watch and psychological observation where
32:38
they located. Answer, they would be conducted downstairs on the
32:42
second floor in the health services area. Question and that's
32:47
outside of the shoe. Correct answer, That is correct question,
32:51
And that was prior to any attempt on his life
32:53
or anything like that. Answer, that is correct? Question? Okay?
32:57
Was that after some time he was returned to the shoe.
33:01
Redacted began hearing talk that Epstein was trying to get
33:05
back on suicide watch. Information like This is usually generated
33:09
from rounds, kites and kites notes correct answer, correct question,
33:16
and notes from inmates specifically correct answer. It could be yes,
33:20
that would be inmate correspondence question yeah, and monitoring phone
33:25
calls and letters answer correct question, So the hearing of talk,
33:29
that's all based on inmate talk. Answer that would have
33:32
been all that. Staff question okay, staff as well answer.
33:36
You know, staffing sitting there and you know, especially when
33:39
he's on suicide watch, staff are taking notes. So it's
33:43
every fifteen minutes, you know. Staff, Oh, I'm sorry, every
33:46
thirty minutes, I believe, I can't remember, it's been a while,
33:50
but you know, a staff member it's every thirty minutes,
33:52
I believe, is taking a log of what the inmate
33:55
is doing inside of his cell, so you know what
33:59
he is doing. The inmate is facing to the right,
34:01
the inmate is facing away from the staff. The inmate is,
34:05
you know, doing what or he makes statements. Those statements
34:09
will be written in the log. Question Okay, it says
34:13
on or about July twenty third, twenty nineteen, Epstein was
34:17
found on a responsive on the floor of his cell
34:19
with a homemade piece of fabric on his chest. When
34:23
you say a homemade piece of fabric, can you explain
34:26
that a little bit? Answer? Okay, basically a homemade piece
34:29
of fabric. It could be anything, because it's out of
34:32
the special housing unit. That's what we're talking about, right,
34:35
Answer yeah, I mean I'm talking about specifically in this instance.
34:39
Do you know what is meant by found on the
34:41
floor with a homemade piece of fabric on his chest? Answer?
34:45
It could have been fragments from a T shirt. It
34:47
could have been fragments from sheets. It could have been
34:50
fragments of cloth. He gets interrupted that they could tie together.
34:56
Answer it was tied together, you know, in discernable to
35:00
make the type of homemade fashioned. He gets cut off
35:04
by the investigator. Question did you see it at all
35:07
though yourself? Answer? I can't remember? Question okay, sure. Epstein's
35:11
cellmate had flagged the attention of a staff member, who
35:14
handcuffed the cell mat and removed Epstein to bring him
35:17
to the medical unit. Do you recall at that time
35:20
who his cellmate was? Answer Tartaglione. Question okay, great, and
35:26
did you all right? We talk about him in a
35:28
little bit redacted her from the staff that Epstein may
35:31
have been faking on consciousness. Do you know who told
35:34
you that? Answer? Well, basically in memorandum. I remember when
35:38
it was reported to me and I made my report.
35:41
I believe it was in the report of the incident
35:44
by or redacted. Question okay? Answer? And I believe that
35:49
she had put out an email which concluded that the
35:52
inmate was showing manipulative behavior through his statements and what
35:56
was observed by a medical staff. Question okay. Answer. So
36:01
basically they were saying that the incident didn't occur, as
36:05
the inmate may have tried to make it look like
36:07
or occur. Question okay. And we're going to get into
36:10
that in the second. Because he was not observed opening
36:14
his eyes and making other suspicious movements not consistent with
36:18
an unconscious state, or sorry, because he was observed opening
36:22
his eyes and making other suspicious movements not consistent with
36:26
an unconscious state. Epstein was medically assessed and became coherent.
36:31
Epstein claimed that his cell mate, Nicholas Tartaglione, tried to
36:35
take his life. Was that investigated? Answer? I believe. No,
36:40
I mean, I can't remember, but I believe a report
36:43
of incident may have been done. Question Okay? Answer? And
36:47
primarily when an incident is generated. So any time that
36:51
an incident happens in the institution, I'm going to walk
36:54
you through this. The lieutenant that's on shift is supposed
36:57
to do the initial fact finding, the gathering of evidence
37:00
it's okay, and of all these things, and then they
37:03
write a brief synopsis and then it's put in a packet,
37:06
and then ultimately SIS department will investigate it, especially if
37:11
we're having an assault, which would have been a two
37:13
to two four alpha, which is a minor assault of another.
37:16
So pictures would have been taken, clinical assessments of both
37:20
inmates would have been taken, when his statements would have
37:23
been taken. All of these things would have been done,
37:26
and it goes into an investigative packet. Question sure, so
37:29
redacted lieutenant would have created it and provided it to SIS.
37:35
Answer and would have created it and for me to
37:38
move it on. Question and do you know if there
37:41
was any credibility found to the claim that Epstein made
37:45
that this other his cellmate, had tried to take his life. Answer.
37:49
I don't believe there was any credibility that was ever
37:51
concluded that that incident happened. Question And do you know
37:57
anything about how he was initially found, if a home
38:00
rope or whatever it was was found around his neck
38:03
or says in this on his chest, anything with that
38:06
with you know, do you know what I mean, like
38:09
if someone was trying to hang himself, if it came
38:12
on their chest, do you know anything about how that
38:15
may have happened? Answer? I mean, forensically, I wouldn't know.
38:19
I'm not an investigator like that or on that level,
38:22
so I can't really tell you the position of any
38:24
type of homemade fashioned item that would have been used
38:27
to facilitate a suicide attempt or an assault attempt. That's
38:31
not my level. Again, I'm trying to remember what it
38:35
was or what was used. I don't know exactly, so
38:38
I can't really determine or give you that type of
38:41
you know, I don't have expertise in that area. Question.
38:45
But in the information that was provided to you, it
38:47
was suggested that he tried to take his own life,
38:50
not that his cellmate tried to take his life. Answer
38:53
correct that it was inconclusive that the inmate had inmates
38:56
Tartaglione had tried to kill this guy or tried to
38:59
do any self harm to this guy. So you have to,
39:03
like you have to take an advantage because it's one
39:06
inmate's word against another. So when the investigation comes down,
39:10
of course, inmate Epstein would have been interviewed, Inmate tar
39:14
Taglione would have been interviewed, at which time you would
39:17
have those statements, you would have waived, and then you
39:21
would have to look into consideration any witness statements or
39:25
anything that was observed during the clinical assessment. So that's
39:29
why health services helps us out, because the inmates don't
39:32
want to understand that everything they're doing or anything they're
39:36
saying is being entered on a clinical assessment. So that's
39:40
where they are saying that his actions may not have
39:43
been what they should have been. For a person that
39:46
was quasi supposed to have been assaulted or if he
39:49
was supposed to have been unconscious, he was displaying this
39:53
type of manipulative behavior. So again, I wasn't there. I
39:56
don't know what occurred. I'm just going by what the
39:59
information that was relayed back to me. All right, folks,
40:02
we're gonna wrap up right here and in the next
40:04
episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
40:06
we left off. All the information that goes with this
40:10
episode can be found in the description box.