Latest / The In-Between Tech and Trust Podcast / Tech & oneliness: Reclaiming Connection in the Age of Artificial Intimacy - EP10

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Tech & oneliness: Reclaiming Connection in the Age of Artificial Intimacy - EP10 · The In-Between Tech and Trust Podcast

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We are losing, in a way, this capacity, I think, to be with
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paradox and complexity and messiness and stay with the
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trouble, stay with the yeah, with, with everything that
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really makes us or makes our relationships human.
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What does it mean to feel connected to others, to
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yourself, and to something greater?
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Welcome to the In Between Trust Podcast, the podcast at the
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intersection of tech and trust. In this episode, I speak with
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Monica Young, researcher, writer, and community curator,
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about the emotional fabric of trust, loneliness, and what is
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called oneliness. We explore how technology can
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mediate or sometimes even flatten our senses of belonging,
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and why intimacy, difference, and presence are central to
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designing trustworthy connections.
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Hello, Monica, I'm so pleased to welcome you to the In Between
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Trust podcast. Thank you so much for having me,
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I'm happy. To be here, it's a pleasure to
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talk to you today about one of the topics that you've been
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spending so much time on for the past couple of months and like
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weeks as well. And it's in regard to oneliness,
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and oneliness is like quite the word.
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And it's also something that might be interesting for you to
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reflect upon the context of trust, in particular, when we
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start into our conversation, what would be the first thing
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that comes to your mind at the intersection of trust and
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loneliness? One diness.
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Sorry. Yeah, no, it's a it's a good way
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to start because loneliness and one liness are interconnected in
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a ways. Maybe that just as a quick note,
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the word 1 liness, I didn't come up with it.
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Some people think that I did. It was actually the word that
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existed before loneliness became an actual word in the English
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language around the eights. So it referred to a connection
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to something greater or an interconnectedness, I guess.
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And then people found a word for loneliness when started to live
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in modern, more modern societies at that time and so forth.
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So I think loneliness, loneliness both have in their
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own ways, something to do and very closely related to trust.
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It's probably one of the key ingredients, I want to say
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dimensions in which we can understand closeness and
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intimacy and connection in a deeper level, not only between
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each other or other, you know, me and another human being or
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another being, but also trust in terms of trusting into
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organizations and institutions and larger systems and then
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trust to yourself on that other side of the spectrum.
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So I think there's a, there's a spectrum obviously of, of trust
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and how it relates to our relationships and ways that we
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feel connected or disconnected. And one might say it's quite
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special to be drawn to the space and also to be reflecting upon,
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you know, how to create those oneliness within organizations
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or oneself. Could you explain a bit of what
3:05
drew you exactly to that area and why now?
3:09
Yeah, that's a great question the why now.
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So I spent some time in in community building or really
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accidentally I guess found myself in it.
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That's also where we met with House of Beautiful business.
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I didn't know that there was such a thing as community
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building or what it really meant at when I joined that
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organization quite at the beginning of of it and stayed
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for five years. I guess I developed a love not
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only for creating spaces for others and, and sort of being
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part of this movement of reimagining work in business,
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but also I really appreciated the closeness to other people
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and to be more in touch with people's inner lives, I want to
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say, and their truths that they carry and that they felt
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compelled to share not only with me, but with each other and
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within that community. So I became really curious about
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what what is it that draws people to a place like the
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house, but also other types of communities and gatherings and
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especially after the pandemic, which statistics and numbers
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will will prove as well. This hunger almost for
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connecting and reconnecting on a deeper level was pretty
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apparent. So to me, there was something
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about looking on the other side of community and connection and
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into loneliness and wondering whether there is something
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between loneliness as an individual and personal
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experience that I have also experienced in many different
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ways and am still and loneliness as a structural systemic
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phenomenon. Something that is caused, cause
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and effect both of the way that we live, the way that we relate
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to one another, the way that we build technology, that we use it
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and so forth. And that relates to the why now,
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right? Looking at the world and seeing
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at that time, like about 2-3 years ago maybe how we've
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already at that point been growing, growing apart from one
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another, the ways that we engage with our phones as our closest
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companions. And now of course, it's AI or
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it's becoming AI and so forth, right?
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So some of these drivers, I guess, of our modern lifestyle
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and societies and polarization and so forth, also led me to
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saying, OK, I need to. There seems to be something
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urgent about looking more deeply into loneliness beyond beyond
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looking at it as a health problem, which it is, but beyond
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that even. You've now touched upon the
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drivers that made you also look into the topic, but like from a
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broader perspective, you've mentioned the phones, you've
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mentioned also AI. Could you dive a bit further
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into these aspects that what do you see currently and how are
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they potentially interrelated? Yes, so technology is a big one,
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of course. I think that's what most people
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can relate to that I've been in touch with that I bring
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together. They're like, Oh yeah, I, I get
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it. Like there's a loneliness
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because you kind of have the idea that you have your phone
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and, and through the phone as a medium, you feel like you have
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access to a lot of people and, and connection.
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And the way that we connect now through social media, through
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messaging and so forth feels real enough.
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And at the same time, it is kind of an illusion.
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So there's this wonderful term called artificial intimacy that
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was coined by the MIT sociologist Sherry Turkle, who's
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been doing a lot of research on the relationship between humans
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and machines since since many, many years.
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And she calls this illusion almost right, this this
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disillusion of being close and being related to others through
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technology and through particularly our phones and
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other devices as something that is not quite human enough.
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But it, it feels as if it is real and intimate enough, right?
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So it gives us an, the idea of feeling connected, like not
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alone, not lonely and having always an option, I guess to
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reach out to someone or get a quick dopamine hit from a like a
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share or quick message or something like that.
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And it really speaks to something deeper.
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I I think that is that we've almost gotten used to the way of
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feeling perpetually under nurtured in connection, right
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and in one leanness, perhaps because we are, we've grown to
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be OK now with that level of stimulation almost and this very
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flattened way of feeling connected, often one sided, not
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necessarily reciprocal, not necessarily profound and
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complex, certainly not messy as human relationships are.
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So it has the effect on the other end of us humans feeling
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more, more and more drawn to more convenient ways of
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connecting and being relationship, right.
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If something doesn't work for us, then we ghost, we leave.
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We, we end the relationship, we end the conversation, we drop
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out, we go silent, we go mute. We, we, we, we are losing in a
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way, this capacity, I think, to be with paradox and complexity
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and messiness and stay with the trouble, stay with the yeah,
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with, with everything that really makes us or makes our
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relationships human. And that, paradoxically or not,
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has made us feel more lonely than perhaps without this, this
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technology or this way of interacting.
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On the other hand, of course, technology has offered a lot of
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beautiful ways, right, for us to connect right now in many
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different ways, how we can get in touch with people all around
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the world. But what I'm speaking to, or
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what this idea of artificial intimacy and this flattened
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weight of connecting and, and feeling connected speaks to is,
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is something, something else perhaps, and is an effect of the
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systems that we have been creating and, and in the way
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that we have. And this is another part of it,
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right? Become addicted almost to to
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that feeling into those technologies and now AI is a
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whole new level of providing the sense of artificial intimacy, of
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course. What you just like reflected
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upon house like many different levels and I'm so curious about
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their interwoveness because you've started with the self,
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you've like expanded into the organizational structure and
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technology can be a vehicle to create or also counter like
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digital connection and there's then human connection and
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digital connection. Is there a difference and in
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what way could both of them feel?
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Very interesting. Is there a difference?
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Yes and no, probably I do still see technology, but that's
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that's where it gets really tricky with AII think.
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But like I do still see technology and like the
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platforms and the the ways the devices as as a medium in a way,
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it's still me talking to you or me talking to another, hopefully
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to another person with a heart and a soul and a spirit and a
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body. So that is human connection
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through a digital device, a medium.
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But that's just a theory, I guess, because it does feel
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different, right? Just on a very, very, very
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simplified way to look at it of how we engage with one another.
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If we are face to face, body to body and in one room together
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versus behind two screens and communicating over text, it is a
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different way of interacting in the way that we've become, as I
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said, so used to. It is, is the tricky part.
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I think sometimes we can forget perhaps that there is a real
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human being behind that screen, which is not so easy to to
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forget if you're actually facing them and their emotions and you
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pick up the energy right and the mood almost or the body language
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there. There's so much to pick up on,
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on, on and that reciprocates in a way.
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So I think for both, whether it's mediated through a digital
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device or human, human to human, I think we do need the full
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capacity of what it means to connect, which is not just the
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positive and joyful pieces of communication and resonance and
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vibing with one another and reacting to one another and
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celebrating. But it's also kind of the
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ability to read beneath what is being said, to listen more
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deeply to, yeah, read body language, not say anything, to
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bear silence. Yeah.
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To even learn how to resolve conflict in an, in a nonviolent
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way, to sit with tension, sit with paradox, learn how to
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repair, learn to apologize and forgive.
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So I think those are a lot of these are a lot of capacities I
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think that I needed coming back to trust, right, in order to
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cultivate trust on an ongoing way.
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And that is important for, for either of these types of
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connection and more. So I think in a way for digital
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connection or digital ways of of being in touch because of again
12:16
because of the systems that we've created, the platforms
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that we engage on the rules that apply on these platforms.
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Who's who's? Governing them, who's who has
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the power over these platforms and of course they're our our
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individual powers are a limited versus making decisions on
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Monica's terms as an individual to to another human being.
12:37
And if you now on the one hand side have those digital
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platforms and you specifically also reflecting upon the
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capacity that's that we as like individuals need to create in
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the context of communities. Having the platforms having like
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the capacity movement or looking into that, how do we design for
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communities that are intimate and that belonging is elected
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into rather than having this sort of on the other side
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transactional relationship that could arise easily?
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Yeah, I hope that and I'm seeing it here and there that this idea
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of community, which is also very much saturated, overly saturated
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and overly used word and term at this point, right.
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Everything is community now that the next stage of community in a
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way comes back to maybe its origin again or more closely
13:33
towards origin, which was always the idea of a Commons, more like
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a an idea of having a thinking of a space, right?
13:40
Thinking of a space where people can come in and it's accessible
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and it doesn't it's not commodified, It's not it not it
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doesn't necessarily cost something.
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It's not a membership. So that's another other, you
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know, area that we could go in kind of this, the commercial
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aspect of how spaces, especially digital ones and beyond are
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governed and therefore called a community and who has access to
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them, who doesn't and how we relate in there.
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Because community to me is not sameness, right?
14:08
It's not necessarily just meeting like minded people.
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And at the same time, of course, there's necessity for such
14:13
spaces, right, Safer spaces for certain groups, especially those
14:17
who've been historically marginalized and those who do
14:20
not feel safe in, in the company of dominant groups that that are
14:24
usually there or louder or neuro divergent groups like there,
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there's so many subgroups in a way that needs safer spaces.
14:31
Yes. And I do think the idea of
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community, especially in the digital realm could be expanded
14:37
a little bit. And I would love to see that for
14:39
us to meet each other again through our differences as well,
14:43
which don't necessarily have to be so apart.
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They don't have to be on one end of the spectrum and be super
14:50
polarized. It's more about creating that
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safe, safe enough, I would say safe enough space for people to
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be yeah, to, to lean a little bit more into something unknown
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and maybe stretch themselves a little bit and say something
15:05
that they hadn't said before and listen to one another a bit
15:09
more. I, I think that's where I would
15:12
love to see things moving and, and, and how I think we could
15:15
help design spaces through technology to say like we don't
15:19
have to become fully dependent right on these platforms or in
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the way that they have been designed very much for echo
15:25
chambers, very much for a niche and sort of algorithm, algorithm
15:30
fed content and world views. But we can almost break it open
15:35
again and meet each other in a different way while using the
15:39
technology for it's good, but meet each other differently and
15:42
allow for a broader, more pluralistic way of dialogue,
15:46
conversation and listening, which is part of it.
15:48
When we talk about AI specifically, the parts around
15:54
being particular and like distinct in the way that we
15:59
express ourselves specifically as a brand, but then also as an
16:02
individual somewhat counters sometimes the impression that
16:06
you get when you use AI that contents get more the same.
16:11
So you basically do have, from a tech perspective, kind of two
16:15
parlors that somewhat don't fit together.
16:18
And then again, you describe that meeting each other in the
16:22
space of creating a mutual understanding while reflecting
16:26
upon or respecting the differences that one brings to
16:30
that space might not fit together.
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How do you see that? Yeah, maybe this is something to
16:37
explore and that is something to experiment with.
16:39
I think it's time for maybe different ways how we make
16:44
spaces, how we use spaces and whom we allow to hold spaces as
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well. I think this is also a power
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question, right? Big one, Like who holds these
16:53
spaces? And does it always have to be 1
16:55
entity? Does it always have to be one
16:57
person? Can we come back to a different
16:59
way of a more of a collective? Like what is a collective space?
17:03
This is a public space on the Internet, a digital public
17:05
space. How does that even work so that
17:08
we don't necessarily fall back onto the this either or way or
17:12
the known way of having done things in the way that we know
17:15
them. And that requires, yeah, maybe
17:18
different actors or different people to try and come together
17:22
and feel also empowered in a way to, to do so and to not wait I
17:27
guess for whoever to, to come with a, a solution again.
17:32
And I guess one of the intriguing parts for me
17:34
particular is also like somewhat somewhat called emotional fabric
17:40
that you can bring into those spaces that rely on a Gray space
17:45
that you can like interrelate or also meet each other while at
17:50
the same time respecting the context that you're in or the
17:54
tech environment that you use in order for us to also meet like
17:58
virtually. And one of the most crucial
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aspects currently is how much trust do I bring the tech space
18:05
or the space that we meet in order to have the sense of
18:10
emotional fabric that each of us like as a person brings to this
18:14
environment. And when you also like in your
18:17
work and in regards of the encounters with you, with your
18:21
projects or also with your, I now don't want to say
18:24
communities, but somewhat also with people that you engage with
18:28
is like on the ground and in person spaces.
18:31
So how do you see it differently in in person spaces?
18:36
The dynamics in contrast, are also reflecting upon digital
18:41
environments that you've been part of.
18:43
Yeah. I think people, I mean, I might
18:46
be biased, but people are so hungry for in person gatherings,
18:51
They just want to be there together with others.
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And at the same time, we almost have to learn how to do that
18:58
again, like in a non cringe way, in a non, in a, in a way that
19:04
doesn't feel too risky, in a way that we will allow ourselves to
19:08
feel also the the awkwardness that is always there in the
19:10
moment and then drop in. And this is in a way, what I'm,
19:14
you know, part of my work is to invite people again into very,
19:19
very low key and still somewhat deep spaces in person in order
19:24
to feel how it feels. How does it feel to be with
19:28
strangers, you know, in, in person, in a, in a space
19:33
together with different emotional fabrics, with
19:36
different capacities, with different heritage and cultures
19:38
and backgrounds and so forth. And I think that's something
19:41
that we cannot theorize about. And it's, there are limits to
19:44
experiencing that digitally. So the digital piece is
19:47
important in terms of reminding people and kind of almost laying
19:52
the the framework, but then also nudging them to go out into the
19:56
real world that we'd need both, both so, so much.
20:00
And I think they can complement each other.
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How does it feel for you? For me, it's one of the most
20:06
nourishing, nourishing things for me personally, which is also
20:12
part of why why I'm doing this. I think I, I have a, it is very,
20:18
it feels very natural to me. It feels very natural and not
20:23
forced at all. And there is no force really.
20:26
And there's a trust actually more and more so from when I
20:30
started, I was like, I remember you start something.
20:34
It's the first time you are naturally more a control freak.
20:37
You know, you're trying to plan everything, script everything
20:39
out. It's kind of like from this
20:41
anxiety space you're acting from that it's like, I hope nothing
20:44
goes wrong. And then of course, as you do
20:49
this more often, you play, you experiment, you learn also to
20:53
trust not only yourself, but actually you trust in something
20:56
that will emerge in the collective in that moment,
20:59
during that time that will that will pass, you know, afterwards,
21:03
but that is present. So trusting in that present
21:06
moment is something that I've, I am still learning.
21:09
So it feels like that and it also feels very encouraging and
21:14
hopeful in a way, I don't know, hope making.
21:16
And yeah, not in a naive kind of, oh, we're, you know, we're
21:19
going to be fine. The, the world is beautiful, but
21:22
it's, it's kind of like, yes, the world is beautiful and
21:24
humans are capable of, of beautiful things.
21:27
And there is a lot of suffering and there is a lot of injustice
21:31
and there is a lot of heaviness And people are struggling a lot
21:34
right now with different, you know, and, and different levels
21:39
and different circumstances. And you can feel that, that
21:42
there's so much that we can give to 1 another if we allow
21:46
ourselves to, to open a little bit and to come a little bit
21:51
more closer to one another than we we perhaps want to.
21:54
And if you now look into the corporate world and into like
21:59
the way that organizations are structured, from the work that
22:03
you do, from looking into the creation of oneliness and like
22:08
also building trustworthy ecosystems in some way, what do
22:12
you think like leaders can learn from your work?
22:16
Yeah, I think first of all, I, I think, I mean, I've had the
22:19
privilege to meet a lot of leaders who already do what I'm
22:22
going to say, which is to, to inquire something within them,
22:26
right? To look a bit more deeply into
22:28
who am I? Who am I as a leader?
22:31
What does leadership mean to me? And, and how does this not only
22:35
come to the output and, and of course the results and
22:40
everything that, that needs to happen, but beyond that, what is
22:44
it that I, what is it that I can give and that I'm willing to
22:48
give even if I don't get something in return?
22:50
And what is it that I can learn, right.
22:53
So I've met a lot of people throughout my life and career
22:56
who already do that and who question themselves and, and who
23:01
encourage one another. And I think a, a specific thing
23:06
perhaps that leaders could learn from my work, I think it's not
23:10
to be afraid of, of opening conversations and spaces for
23:16
more difficult emotions and more difficult topics.
23:19
It's always, I feel easier, right to, to talk about what's
23:22
going well and what's to improve and what's to optimize and how
23:26
do we solve this? How do we get this number up?
23:29
Or like, how do we? So I think that's always easier
23:32
than just saying what else is there?
23:34
And is there something that you know isn't explicitly being
23:37
mentioned, but is something that maybe hinders the person or the
23:43
team to truly flourish? And it always comes back to
23:47
relationships, always comes back to the quality of relationships,
23:50
whether that's the relationship to yourself, to others within
23:53
the colleagues, or to the organization as a whole.
23:56
And I think to begin conversations that dig a little
24:00
bit more deeply into that aspect that begins perhaps with
24:04
something very personal, but then transcends to something
24:07
organizational, something societal could be, could be
24:09
really revealing and surprisingly, surprisingly
24:13
curious and, and bring new aspects and new ways of seeing
24:17
and looking and understanding. And also in terms of of course,
24:20
the way of how you feel connected to one another and to
24:24
the, the level of trust or the level of sense of sense of
24:27
belonging. That is not like an aspirational
24:30
status, right? It's not an ideal, but it's,
24:32
it's a practice. I think all of that I think of
24:35
as a practice of, OK, how do I listen more closely?
24:39
How do I ask another question that can dive?
24:41
How do I bring people together to be more honest with one
24:44
another and and share something truthful?
24:47
So yeah. Have you seen leaders,
24:50
colleagues or like people in your environment leveraging
24:55
technological infrastructures or tools in order to create that
25:00
sense of belonging or caring relationships that are needed in
25:05
order to form those interactions?
25:08
Definitely. I mean, there's so much I feel
25:10
that people are doing right from leveraging the tools exactly and
25:15
the ways of gathering, whether it's on Zoom or like on Slack
25:20
and even a small message, right? Like everything that feels
25:23
intentional in or, or regular monthly meet up or, or something
25:28
like this or a different kind of office hour or the idea of
25:32
right, having a kitchen, but as a digital sort of as a digital
25:34
form of a kitchen where you usually would come together to
25:37
chat and to to banter or gossip, even or written pieces, right,
25:41
like content pieces or newsletters or ways how you can
25:45
again, videos or audios, different formats.
25:48
I guess that's where technology is so great at.
25:50
It's like we have different formats and how we engage and
25:52
how people can weigh in without having to raise their voice
25:57
necessarily or having to know how to how or feel safe enough
26:02
to, to do things. So yes, I, I think I have, I am
26:05
seeing a lot of different ways how people come together in that
26:08
way through trying to be creative.
26:10
I think to see how a topic right around creativity, around
26:15
technology, something like that could generate different kinds
26:18
of conversations. So I don't think that there is
26:20
necessarily a recipe that is like this is the
26:23
one-size-fits-all kind of thing. But I do think there there are a
26:27
lot of simple ways to try this. And I think consistency is key,
26:31
right. Establishing a format,
26:32
establishing a space and being patient with that, especially on
26:36
often this online, it's like it's so easy to launch things.
26:39
So you just launch 500 things and then you're like what, you
26:41
know, what are we going to do with that?
26:43
So consistency and then reducing it down and less is more and
26:47
coming back to the quality I think of what you want to.
26:50
Yeah, what you want to cultivate in your organization?
26:53
One of the topics that like organizations, communities, we
26:57
as humans look into is the way that we experience truth given
27:03
also current media developments, giving current, you know, larger
27:09
political landscape. But then again, also and like
27:12
meeting each other of like, how do you create the sense of
27:15
mutual trust that that I can rely on on what you say is true?
27:19
And then what I see is that technology in a sense is on one
27:24
hand side like an infrastructure that can help enable or bridge
27:29
of holding like multiple troops troops.
27:31
But then again, what we see is that like collective trust at
27:36
the same time is currently collapsing.
27:38
Do you think that there is like an interrelation between both of
27:41
those approaches And in your experience, in your work and in
27:46
the context that you create, how do you manage and foster it so
27:51
it stays? Yeah, there's definitely a
27:53
relation thing. If I look at the world right now
27:56
and I'm like, well, I'm not. So I mean, I am surprised, but
28:00
I'm also not surprised in a way of how our collective trust is
28:03
declining. It's kind of like, yeah, well,
28:06
what do we expect? You mentioned media, right?
28:09
Misinformation, disinformation again, bring in AI.
28:12
Now the power of of some of these technologies go beyond, I
28:16
think what we beyond the, the human capacity to follow and,
28:20
and and follow the pace of, in the severity of, of some of
28:25
these yeah, technologies. So I'm not, so I am surprised
28:29
but not shocked, you know, And I think it comes back to me, it
28:33
comes back to the way in which we have faith in one another and
28:37
the way that we are able to trust each other.
28:40
And I think that's obviously where I start my work.
28:44
But also what I believe is, is underrated probably as, or
28:50
overlooked often because it's easy to blame institutions is
28:55
easy to blame business organizations or the leaders or
28:59
the, you know, the, the presidents and the powerful
29:03
people in in this world. And yes, of course they hold,
29:06
they were like just generally Speaking, of course, they hold a
29:09
lot of power and influence and responsibility.
29:13
And at the same time, in order to, I think cultivate a certain
29:16
fabric of trust and trustworthiness again, we can
29:20
all start, we need all to start with ourselves and each other.
29:24
So, and I think trust is something that I'm no expert in
29:28
that, but what I'm seeing and experiencing myself is like,
29:30
trust is something that that kind of gets built over time and
29:34
then it gets broken and I can't rebuild again.
29:36
It's kind of this, if it's, if it stays, it's great, right?
29:39
But it doesn't necessarily stay in the same density or
29:42
intensity, city or, or level. It's not a static thing, is what
29:45
I'm trying to say. It is again, something that
29:47
needs to be practiced. And it comes with a leap of
29:50
faith. I really like this idea of, of
29:52
having faith, which the Turkish journalist Ajit Imakran speaks a
29:58
lot about and, and wrote about in in her book.
30:01
And I, I think there is something about faith that, you
30:05
know, not in a religious sense and not necessarily in a
30:08
spiritual sense, but having this leap and giving trust is
30:12
something that is inherently part of then almost training
30:16
that muscle to, to trust somebody else.
30:18
Like, I don't know if there, there's such a thing as, you
30:21
know, coming up with a long list of boxes to check in order to
30:25
then say, OK, now I can trust this person to do XYZ.
30:28
Like I, I will have to, you know, give that person trust my
30:31
trust to do something or to follow through or to be trusted
30:35
with an information or, or something that I share with them
30:37
and then experience how it actually is.
30:40
And yes, I might be disappointed or my trust might be misused,
30:43
but there's also 50% of the chance that it might not right
30:47
that it will be honored. So trust is, is a really tricky
30:52
thing. But I think in, in the smallest
30:54
ways, we can make small but positive experiences or try to
30:58
make experiences in general, whether positive or negative or
31:00
somewhere on the spectrum in trusting one another.
31:03
Like and beginning to do that more, not with only with the
31:06
people that we know, but also with strangers or neighbors or
31:09
people who are just in our life and in our communities in our
31:12
world. And that's in a way what I'm
31:14
trying to do as well with my work and the gatherings that I
31:18
organize. Of course there's a certain
31:20
container then Lava City, but yeah, you never know who shows
31:24
up and with what kind of inner life and instead of so people to
31:29
trust and again comes back to consistency and and
31:32
vulnerability as well. With the podcast that you're
31:34
like launching and also like diving into the topic.
31:37
So I'm super intrigued of following along and like also
31:41
see the reflection in regards of loneliness as community building
31:45
and where this is all going to be headed.
31:47
And as we come to a close, those of this podcast episode and what
31:52
I think is like a truly valuable conversation.
31:55
Thank you for sharing all of your expertise and insights.
31:59
I want to share some in between moments with you.
32:02
These are moments of where I ask my guests to answer like from
32:08
their intuition of what comes to their mind first.
32:12
And one of the answers that I would love to hear from you is
32:15
in regards to oneliness. What does oneliness feel like
32:19
for you? Oneliness feels like a living.
32:24
A living motion. Yeah, as something that is
32:26
always in motion and goes into different directions.
32:29
Yeah, I think it's a movement. According to you and your work
32:33
and what you see, what does community currently need?
32:36
Community needs embracing difference.
32:39
And what should technology do? Technology, in its best case,
32:43
should help us, yeah, help us inquire a little bit more deeply
32:47
what it means to be human and what kind of human we want to
32:52
be. And ending with trust and what
32:55
trust is for you. Trust is having faith and giving
32:59
without without expecting to receive something.
33:03
Back. What a perfect end for like this
33:06
inspirational conversation. Thank you so much, Monica, for
33:10
joining me, joining us on this episode.
33:12
Yes. Wonderful.
33:13
Thank you so much. Really appreciate being here.
33:16
Very good.