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From Struggles to Poetry: Alan McDonald's Rooted Soul · The Rooted Soul Podcast

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Welcome to the Rooted Soul podcast. I'm Brian Clark and for this episode,
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Alan has made the brave decision to hand me the microphone and answer the questions
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rather than ask them himself.
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I've known Alan for a long time and I've seen him through many different stages
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of his life, from the carefree days growing up to a successful career in banking
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and through some difficult times as well.
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And now as a poet and an author sitting across from you today.
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So we're going to have a chat about the journey behind the Route of Soul,
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the challenges, the lessons, and where life has brought a hand-tripped here today.
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Alan, are you ready? Yeah, I've not seen these questions, so yeah, let's go for it.
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Okay, let's jump straight in and let's go back to the stars.
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So who was Alan MacDonald before all this?
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Well, I grew up in Lucan, same as yourself, as you know. you know two brothers
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two sisters youngest of five,
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who was i i think fairly happy or lucky easygoing kind of guy just liked having
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fun gone out and kind of making friends,
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as i spoke about in other podcasts kind of lucan was a good place to grow up
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certainly around area yeah there was lots of lots of different groups of people
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who got along we went to school with good people a good year,
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but yeah i'd say i was fairly just go with the flow kind of guy you know nothing
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really kind of water off a duck's back kind of guy I guess when I was kind of younger you know.
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Yeah, and I suppose then as well, you know, as a child and a teenager,
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what kind of really stood out to you back then?
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It's a good question, actually. Again, it comes down to the,
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like, in terms of, are you talking in terms of me?
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Yeah. Yeah, I mean, again, I was kind of very influenced by my older brothers.
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You know, I was nine or ten years younger than the two of those.
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So what stood out for me was kind of, you know, by the time I was five or six,
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they were kind of teenagers. So you're kind of trying to follow the,
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follow the trends of what they were doing, you know? Yeah.
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Well, I kind of, I guess from a younger age, behind the easygoing side of it,
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there was always a bit of anxiety there and stuff, you know?
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I always kind of had that in the background. But you don't kind of realize that
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when you're kind of, when you have that from a very young age,
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and obviously, as I've said before,
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things I went through, which I don't go into too much detail,
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which was blocked for a long time, that brings about a kind of an underlying
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kind of insecurity and anxiety that you then kind of what stands out to me most
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now when I look back to be honest,
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is I had great times great childhood and great friends and all of that what is the.
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You kind of put bravado and cockiness sometimes in front of that kind of it's
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interesting actually whatever I suppose I've had delved into it,
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I was kind of three sessions into the therapy that I was doing the one that really works for me,
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and i remember the therapist saying to me actually i don't know if i said this
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to you before you know but he was saying to me,
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this is three sessions in and he goes this is how snarled up you can get and
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he said to me what's an empty suit and i was like what do you mean,
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he's like well what is it and i was like why are you asking me that he goes
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you've named that about six or seven times in three sessions
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so i had to sit down and explain to him what an empty for anyone who doesn't
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know what an empty suit is it means that you you feel like you're kind of a
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shell in a lot of ways and there's no substance underneath it kind of thing you know yeah,
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sorry because that's what i was going to ask you next like so you know,
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in a lot of your homes you talk about losing parts of yourself along the way
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yeah but what did you lose along the way.
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I lost a sense of, definitely lost a sense of self. I mean, I had suffered,
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as I've talked about at length, extreme insomnia from time to time.
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But bouts of us, as long as I can remember, I was a terrible sleeper.
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So, or terrible to get to sleep or stay asleep, that kind of thing.
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And it got, like there were times when it was, it was extremely chronic.
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Then you lose a sense of, you lose your sense of humor a little bit about it.
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Because over time, the one thing that will tip away at you, health issues,
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obviously, but tiredness, in the absence of serious physical health issues,
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which I had some in later on, it tips away at you.
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So it just drains you and drains you where every day you get up, you're exhausted.
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So I lost the sense of myself and you lose a sense of, you're still trying to live a life, you know?
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So as you get older, for example, you've, you know, you've got bills to pay.
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You've got a roof to keep over your head. You've got a job to keep.
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You've got to keep going.
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And so you kind of, you, you, you kind of push through and push through and push through.
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Well, that kind of, that insomnia was the worst part of it. I mean,
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there were other aspects to it, of course, particularly towards the end of kind
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of where I kind of reached that kind of breaking point.
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But it was you know you're you're pushing through the whole time but you're
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losing parts of yourself the whole time because you're taking longer to recover
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yeah and then for someone like me who was always out always social always around.
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People then start to notice that you're not as much anymore and as i found later on some,
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i understand that some people were starting to take that personally like it's
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well it's about me and it's actually not it's about everyone or in reality it's
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just actually about me you know yeah because like,
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looking back looking back as opposed to things you know what signs were there
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like you weren't fully dealing with uh with certain things like so is there
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any anything that was was sticking out or was it kind of like pushed under the
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carpet so you know i'll deal with that later,
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i mean there was i mean certainly when i was and when i was younger i was looking
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to be able to step back in more recent years,
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but i mean there was like as you know there were there were two would have been
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heavy weekends and we all engaged enough from time to time but there was a few
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of those that were that were way over the pale for me or over the light where
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one of the reasons I stepped back was because,
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you end up in a situation where you're like, well, Jesus, I don't need this
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as a crutch or an issue as well.
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I'm very fortunate to have been able to do that.
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But it's interesting because people talk about masking, for example, right?
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And I kind of rail against that, but I do understand this.
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When you're just trying to get on with things, like you know me for years.
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I'm one of those people where the worst thing can happen to me or my family
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or those close to me, and I'll be making a joke about it 10 minutes later.
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And part of that is defense mechanism. Part of that is actually just me.
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I don't believe in if you can pick yourself up, even for a short period of time every time do it,
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but also it meant that sometimes i was it came across that i was maybe minimizing
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or masking or not telling the truth on things which really wasn't what was going
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on because when i look back and i was chatting to a friend of mine who was saying to me what i mean,
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and i was like i wasn't telling you that i was sick i wasn't telling you i was
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tired so i was tired of telling people that and it's not that you expect people
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to do anything or yeah to be have sympathy but you kind of get tired of saying those things,
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and like would you say then i suppose you know you know as opposed to growing
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up when you moved over to london,
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we always saw you coming back for the weekend out for a few drinks out for laughs
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and then you're back back over to london so we wouldn't have really picked up
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on a lot of no that anxiety or depression type of thing but
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i suppose do you think drink socializing and many you know distractions,
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became kind of ways of coping there were yeah absolutely there were times when
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it was Like, as I said to you, there was, there was, make hands of head in this for sure over the years.
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And so it was, I look back now and it was, I talked to a good friend of mine about this who.
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You know we we hit it hard at times there was a whole group of us you're in
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banking you're out in the city and it's a thursday night and then a friday and
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then it's a so there were certainly elements where you you you can,
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when i was younger in particular you can disappear into that but that's a good
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point which you make about living in london yeah because it is in a,
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city if you wanted to be so i was able to disappear and isolate for long periods
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of time when i needed to now look it was my coping mechanism was,
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you know and it's funny where people go i would say you know were you drinking
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all i was like i wasn't drinking at all like when i was feeling down i'd be
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at home in the flat but i might not leave the flat,
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um other than work for weeks or months at a time and because i was able to put
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a bit of a distance with people i knew in london and because the people out back home weren't there,
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you're kind of going well i'll do this for a while now and then i'll because
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i was in different bouts of therapy i was on antidepressants at times yeah and
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you're kind of thinking well this will start to pick up and get better and then
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it just it's just snowballs over time where actually
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a lot of what you're doing outside of work is just kind of isolating and going
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i can't and a lot of times i was sick but i was getting bleeding ulcers i was getting.
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All kinds of mainly stomach issues actually quite bad you were probably run
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down a lot as well but i was by the end i was fucked by the end yeah like no yeah the very end of it,
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i and again i was just this was talked about when with with my specialist i
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was dealing with It's like, I'm blessed I didn't get something much more serious.
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My immune system was gone.
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And everything that was going, I was getting.
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And then they were worried it would be something else. And you're in that situation
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where because you've kind of isolated and kept,
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kind of just try to keep going it's hard then to say to people listen this is like,
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i i don't know like i don't know what goes on another year on with this you know what i mean where,
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you know and i don't mean that in the in the headspace really dark way i mean
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health wise my health's going to give way i mean i ballooned up to 23 stone
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at the time and it was like wait okay because,
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you don't realize it when you're in it it's only when you look back you go actually
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no it was in quite a serious way with us.
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And that's all I think I wanted to ask you as well. As opposed,
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like, were you searching for happiness or were you escaping kind of discomfort,
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around that period? So, for example, you were going out in sessions.
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Was I just forget everything? I just want to, you know, get on with it or I
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just want to see is there light at the end of the zone here?
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What can I do? James, I should have read these questions beforehand.
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This is a really good one. Do you know...
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It's a hard one to answer because, again, when I talk about all of this,
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it isn't like a lost seven or eight or ten years.
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A lot of happiness, a lot of good times.
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The happiness became more fleeting over time because there were issues I had
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in relationships and, as you know, a lot of casual things that were going on.
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And they all related into what was going on with me.
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Right? Yeah. An inability for emotional intimacy, which became difficult.
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So there was an element of that of like, oh, I can't fulfill a long-term relationship
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with someone now either. So it's like that becomes something else that's kind
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of weighing on you. But then you have these casual kind of things where they
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don't really sustain you either over time as you get older.
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So it wasn't, it was, it's a really good question.
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The one thing I've always said, which is true is when I was feeling at my worst
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and down, I didn't try and escape anything. I just isolated and kind of ruminating in it.
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And then we'd be no, I wouldn't be drinking. Yeah. And actually in London for
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two years, as you know, I really, I don't drink it at all.
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Yeah. I come home, I have a few, you guys are with family. Yeah.
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But there were times and it was again, it was a weekend. It was,
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it was just, it was, that was more like, nah, this is way too much,
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but it's, it's, it's very quickly. It's.
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It's a bit of both. So there's a lot of happiness, but it's not escaping discomfort.
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Though I realize now that sometimes there will be an element of that,
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of where you're like somewhere inside you, things are not great.
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So you're kind of, then you would kind of do that. But we kind of grew up,
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I grew up in that kind of, I don't mean with family, friends and people I worked with.
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You just kind of had, it doesn't matter how bad your week is,
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you're coming out on Thursday night, coming out on Friday night.
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And then you're out on Saturday. And that kind of thing certainly didn't.
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Certainly, I mean, I would have, I would have, if had I known what I know now,
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I would have like pulled back to 90% of drinking or anything like that years ago. Yeah.
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Because it, you know, the fact that I can go and have a drink if I want,
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but I might not for three, four, six months. I love that now. Yeah.
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But obviously you have to, you can only know what you know now.
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So just let's talk a little around, a little bit around the kind of collapse period, I suppose.
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So what eventually became too much to carry for you what was the breaking point.
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The lack of sleep was horrendous. I mean, I could go, people kind of look at
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you as if you're like, yeah.
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It could be every second week, I would say on average, three to four to five
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days. The five was the worst.
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Five was your borderline. Like I was starting to fall asleep.
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And you're halfway, almost like you're hallucinating. And that was horrendous.
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But I was also trying to keep the job going. That was the point where you're
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like, I know I went to my boss. My manager was an amazing guy.
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I mean, he was incredibly supportive, but it got to the point where I make big
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decisions and they're money decisions with the job that I'm in.
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So it's like, I can't, you can't do this. But it was the lack of sleep,
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the illness all the time was getting me down.
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And also the fact that I felt I couldn't talk about it, which was my fault.
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And then, you know, the people like, that's the hard thing where I've just had
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to learn to not give a shit what people think.
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You know, the people are thinking one thing or another, not actually what you're saying.
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And that was partially my fault but also I realized I don't care anymore you
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know what I mean it's like you just have to actually sometimes you got to step
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back and look after you and I suppose that's the next question I wanted to ask it was.
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Was there at a final moment when you realize something has to be done here I
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can't I can't keep doing this yeah it was that weekend I reached out to a good
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friend of mine and got into family,
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and said look this I went home and said look this I'm not okay and I was actually
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off for two, it was the start of two weeks off on vacation,
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which ironically was perfect timing in the end and it was a complete and utter,
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it's kind of a breakdown of self, it wasn't.
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You know i don't want to over egg it either but it was a very bad period where
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it's like i i can't continue like this where you you realize you're carrying
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so much yourself and i was you gotta remember i was doing therapy i was on,
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i've been on antidepressant medication which was very strong and again i'm a
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huge supporter and of mental health subsidies,
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whatever it is whether it's professional help whether it's medication or anything
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else but it wasn't right for me and partly because it doesn't suit me and partly because,
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it wasn't what was wrong with me it wasn't depression that's the thing that's
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very hard to get across to people as well i never had depression,
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what i had was trauma from childhood that was blocked that was starting and
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again that started to come out because i wasn't sleeping so your mind is racing
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and i'm on medication which certainly isn't helping i was on i was given it's
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not funny but it is funny now looking back,
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these hypnotic sleeping tablets which i was terrified to take them for a long time,
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and rightly so and then i took them when we go just i couldn't i couldn't sleep
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i hadn't slept in three days and it had an opposite effect on me i was i was
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just completely fucking delali and that's where
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i was very erratic at times not vicious or angry or just erratic and all over
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the place and again it's very hard to explain that to people,
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yeah no because sometimes i can talk shite if i'm drunk but also i was you know
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it's so it's like it that became very.
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It's probably your mechanism for hiding it as well, though, I'd say.
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Exactly, yeah. And it's frustrating. But what I would always say,
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and I've said this a few times, and it's worth saying it again.
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What I would have said a couple of years ago was.
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Oh, I can't talk about what I don't know. I don't know it. But actually,
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you talk about the fact that you talk about the symptoms. You talk about what's
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happening, what's going on.
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But again, I want to make this very clear.
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There was lots of great times. It was that last year, year and a half where,
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it just got really, really bad.
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Before that, it was kind of, it was intermittent and it was,
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it was kind of building and building and building, but it wasn't like all the time.
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It's like, it's like it's in the background most of the time there with you.
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Anxiety and everything else and and going to going to bed and going i'm knackered
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but i don't know if i'm going to sleep too much and just and just to take you
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back to that point about the weekend when you actually reached out for help
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it's one of the things that,
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especially man you actually don't you don't put our hand up to look for help
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no you kind of bury it as much as we can yeah like what were you going through at that stage to say,
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god i have to reach out to someone you know if someone else was listening now
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what would you say to them i'd say there was an element of, I was manic,
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it kind of feels like your brain is broken.
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I couldn't, I just really couldn't put one thought up in front of the other.
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And you're like, this is not the way to go. And then you end up in a situation
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where, as I said, just from a pure health point of view, what I did know is
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that this can't go on like this.
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Something chronic or something very serious is going to come out of this.
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And it became very difficult. Like, as I said, there's a lot of things where,
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you don't talk about it at the time because it's all Jesus. Now it's a fifth
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different thing. And it's like, it's fucking all of them.
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Yeah. And so it becomes hard to kind of go, well, I know if I say this,
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then you're going, geez, now there's something else wrong. It's like, well, yeah.
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But I realize now that it's kind of, you know, that's part of it that you have
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to either talk about it or don't talk about it.
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It's the way to go. and I always look at it now and that anyone's ever come
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to me and there's a lot of friends of mine who don't have their own just as
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serious or more or less but,
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you're not turning them away you're going oh well Jesus you're actually sitting
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down and empathizing and I always say this that some people aren't built for that and,
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it's fine but you need to find the people who are and that's going to lead me
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on to the next one so in the poems you kind of talk about the people,
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who carried you you know so you know who were those people that's always a stood
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body in those kind of dark periods when you were going through it at the toughest times.
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I mean, family, of course. And also how important was it as well?
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It's hugely important. Like, I wish I had to all you lads and heard back from everyone of you.
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And all of you stood by me all through it. The family, I mean,
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have always been there by my side and were amazed at the whole thing and very understanding.
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I had colleagues who, you know, in the initial periods of my boss who were fully
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aware of, you know, how bad things were, who kind of stood by me and supported me. But it's just...
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I'm very fortunate to have a large group of people around me.
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I mean, there's friends of mine around the world, a good mate of mine,
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I don't name people, went through his own serious struggles around the same time.
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Different, but we were able to kind of talk each other into going,
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right, this all has to change.
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Like, this is no way to be living a life. It's no way to be,
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you know, these things have gone to a chronic stage and everything else.
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So all of those people, you know, you can't thank enough and can't kind of repay
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except to pass that on when you can.
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Yeah, that's a good point. So, like, one of the, I suppose, other questions
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that I had for you was, you know, have you met anyone in your similar situation?
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You know, have you spoken to anyone that's gone through something similar?
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I wouldn't say exactly what you went through. Well, I mean, I went through,
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you know, and we'll probably touch on it at some point, but,
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like, the bereavance and the family where I had, I've talked about this before,
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I had no emotional waste pipe is the way I put it now.
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So a lot of people would say to me over the years, oh, you're very stoic,
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you know, you're very you deal with these things and in reality there was an
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element of that with me you know there's always been an element of that but
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it was like you're compacting impacting things down,
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and then with everything else that was going on it was like there's no room
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for anything else so even when i was reaching out at times for a bit of care
19:26
from people who are willing to provide it.
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I i couldn't take it so you're you're pulling someone in and then you're pushing
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them away And that's very hurtful to people as well.
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But it was like, there's the bereavements as well. All of it.
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Like I've had people contact me. So one of the, again, I don't name names.
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Yeah. The first comment I had on the book was from a good friend of our family,
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and their parents were very good friends of my parents.
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And, you know, it was like, thanks for making me feel normal.
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I went through really difficult times. Again, slightly different.
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But the one thing, and I say it in the book, is all of this kind of thing is centered around loss.
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Loss of self, loss of a job, a spouse, a friend, family, whatever it is.
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It's all centered around losing something.
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Yeah. So that's where I think there's a lot of people have come to me and very
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openly messaged about what they were going through. And I have no idea.
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Yeah. people close to me in my life and i had no idea what they were going through,
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so that fact that's yeah there's been there's been a lot of people where those
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conversations have been had somebody in my job on the trading floor come over
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to you i didn't even know the guy bought the book and he was like this is what
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i went through five years ago he's like this actually this is amazing that you've,
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so it's just that's that's good that the book is can help other people as well
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i suppose are going through similar things now if they also buy 10 000 copies yeah that'd be great.
20:47
I suppose we talk about you know grief i want to talk about the legacy as well
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so what do you understand now that you didn't understand then about grief about
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going through that that whole grief process and grief and also then,
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you know anxiety and fear and so forth you know,
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grief is that it's unique to everyone,
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and there was a thing in our family where again it's very open a very loving
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family but it's not that you have to be strong for others.
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So I always remember I don't think it's a bad thing but I look back now and,
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you would feel sorry for people feeling awkward coming up at a removal or a
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funeral to pass on their, because it's a hard thing to do.
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Like on the other, I might have gone through it three times in my family. It happens in life.
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But I would still feel awkward going up to somebody else. So you kind of,
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sometimes you have to kind of just go, well, no, this is my time for my grief,
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and that you don't need to be, try and be strong on it.
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Yeah. And I look back now and that lesson was, was a, took a long time to learn.
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But again, it was just the way i was built with things that had happened there
21:52
was an element of i had to learn almost again how to grieve,
21:57
through the process now it was very cathartic it wasn't i know it sounds really
22:00
horrible but it was very it was a very positive thing in terms of the anxiety,
22:05
it's it's hard because you you can i can put a 47 year old head on a young man's shoulders and say,
22:13
the most confident fucker that you know you're jealous of or envious of or i
22:17
think has it all assorted is probably the most insecure in the entire group,
22:22
so when it comes to anxiety.
22:25
That is tough that requires it depending on how severe it is it requires you
22:28
need to talk to someone about that at times to kind of um,
22:32
to kind of build out the only thing that kind of less ironically lessened my
22:37
anxiety was being around people and doing things yeah and then when i was just
22:41
constantly exhausted and this is where i keep going back to this it is a constant going to work,
22:47
coming home not sleeping and then you're trying to have plans and trying.
22:53
To if that shifts like it you you can't but that anxiety if you don't have the
22:58
insomnia like the way out of anxiety is is is to get out there and make plans
23:03
and meet people and and do things and try new things that's,
23:06
it doesn't cure it but it certainly helps us because i think one of the things
23:10
must be hard for you as well because you know when your your brother and your
23:13
mom and dad has passed away you You know, you always went back to London.
23:18
You didn't have the family around you as such. No, I mean, I was here for three
23:21
years after Craig died. Yeah.
23:23
And I moved across. And then I had a great network of friends over there who were very good.
23:29
But there is an element of out of sight, out of mind. So you come home with
23:33
me so often. So with both my parents, there was an element of that, I think.
23:38
And where it's a good while afterwards that that shock sets in of,
23:43
you know, me being the youngest. And just because I used to cocoon,
23:46
my mother used to know this, I would sometimes have to just go,
23:48
great social battery. When it died off, I would have to be just left alone.
23:53
Listen to music or you know whatever and you lose I mean wrong man saying this
23:58
but you lose that cocoon that was there that safety net almost that was there,
24:03
and that took time because you're going back and forth and yeah you're right
24:06
and then you're over there.
24:09
And it is like I said out of sight out of mind I'm glad we're just talking about
24:13
your parents because in your some of your poems you talk about how your parents
24:17
were very forgiving people and that's not an easy thing to do,
24:21
you know But who was the hardest person for you to forgive? Myself.
24:27
I mean, like, in terms of...
24:29
You look back and you did stupid things, or you said something angry, or you let someone down.
24:35
And it was a good friend of ours, actually. Married to a very good friend of
24:39
ours, who said something like, I hope you're kinder to yourself.
24:42
And it's one of those where...
24:46
I could only do i look back now as things i i thought i did that were so terribly
24:51
bad in the middle of the most severe of it and,
24:54
it's not that i minimize them but i go jesus if that's the worst thing i've
24:57
ever done to someone you know you're not doing too bad and it doesn't mean you
25:01
haven't hurt people yeah but i'm more forgiving of them for certain i'm more forgiving of myself,
25:07
in terms of others i think yeah this childhood trauma there and i forgive that
25:12
and it wasn't too difficult at already to do i'm not i'm not an you know me
25:16
i'm not an unforgiving person yeah i'm sometimes a little,
25:19
maybe i've been a little too easy over the years but i don't believe in punishing
25:23
people i don't believe in,
25:25
i believe in moving forward yeah and again i suppose it's probably really it's
25:30
a really important process for self-forgiveness in your journey that you've
25:34
yeah you've come to at this stage,
25:36
is there any old war that you've finally stopped fighting and said i'm just
25:40
moving on from this now yeah there's a few of them as i said to you before and like,
25:45
I, you know, the door is open for everyone in my life. I can't think of anyone
25:48
I wouldn't want in my life, but I do have a thing in general in life now where,
25:53
the people at arm's length are people who never apologize to do you wrong, never acknowledge it,
25:59
but also will punish if you do something wrong.
26:02
And I was talking to someone like this recently. Lovely as you may be,
26:07
I have to keep that at arm's length because you don't, that's one of those personality
26:11
traits that you don't find out until it's too late.
26:14
So it's like, oh, I swallowed all of this. over the years and it is a it's a
26:17
weakness to me it's a flaw i've swallowed every one of these things without an apology,
26:21
but you're going to punish me for five years now because do you know so that's
26:25
where i listen every listen the therapy's not going to solve everything with
26:28
me but that is one thing where now i'm i'm a lot more and it's my only thing,
26:33
but now the old wars in terms of,
26:36
i'm like so that empty suit is gone like i wouldn't have i mean you know i used
26:40
to get up on stage or do a choir or,
26:43
you know but to put this out there and write the way i do and like i am sure
26:48
there's people going mother eduages is he putting another problem on social
26:51
media i couldn't give a shite brian
26:52
yeah and it's where i'm confident in who i am what it is i want to do
26:56
and confident in moving forward in my life so those old wars of insecurity for
27:00
any younger men particularly but also women,
27:03
anyone who's younger who's insecure it you you can't beat it you can beat it
27:07
quicker than I can, you know, with what I was dealing with.
27:11
So those old wars are gone. I don't care what people think about me anymore. Okay.
27:15
So as long as I think I'm gorgeous, I've been on the Monjaro.
27:17
So you just spoke there about the poetry.
27:21
Now, I've known you for many, many years and.
27:25
You know, I know you did journalism and, you know, things that would happen
27:28
in our lives. And we'd say, oh, you should write a book about this or write a song about this.
27:32
I never had you paid for poetry. Really? So why did you pick poetry?
27:37
So I would have said, again, there's a lot of these kind of perspective changes
27:43
that happen over time when you go through what I went through and come out the other side.
27:49
Like it was the 9th of February in New York. It was minus 13.
27:53
It was my last night in New York this year.
27:55
And there was nothing happening. Nobody was heading out anywhere.
27:58
So I had dinner in the hotel.
28:00
Pod 39, New York, very good value. It's a nice hotel.
28:04
And I went back to the room and there were certain things, which I won't go
28:08
into here because I don't want to name people, but you'll know what I'm talking
28:10
about. And it was that event and what happened kept going around and around
28:14
and around in my head. And I thought, this is the one thing left now that's bothering me.
28:19
So I sat down and I had a, there was a couple of lines, something I'd said to
28:24
somebody in bereavement years before.
28:25
And I wrote them down, then meditation on loss came out.
28:28
And then I got off to Heathrow and I said this before the next day and it was
28:31
six or seven poems written.
28:33
Now i would have said to you that since then there's about 250 pieces of poetry
28:37
i've written which is ridiculous it's just it's poured out all different stuff
28:41
i love doing it and then there's a podcast and everything else,
28:44
and it's only recently when i did one of the podcast episodes irish music and
28:49
where i realized actually this is going back quite some time
28:51
so when i used to learn i had the dubliner songs and all that those irish music
28:56
i would listen to the tapes i would pause i would write down the lyrics
29:00
okay and that i think gave me the match for what i do now because obviously
29:04
it's very lyrical what i do yeah so i don't i didn't think it was going to be
29:08
poetry either but actually,
29:10
it goes back over time i used to write,
29:13
partly the choir i was in and working when we finished the tv show and with
29:16
something by dom really good guy we wrote limericks for everyone like about
29:20
the experience for everybody in the choir so it was there in the background yeah because.
29:25
You know I know growing up with you you've written written plays and certain
29:29
well that's still as well like and that's still there yeah so I lost all of
29:33
that but the idea behind that was to rewrite,
29:38
it was after I had my heart broken but it was it was it was to write rewrite songs to suit the play,
29:46
but from a they had to fit perfect so from a distance you're hearing Spandau
29:50
Ballet is true you're not hearing my,
29:52
it's perfectly in sync yeah and that also all when you think about all of that,
29:57
it was it was there and it was kind of leading up and the thing about the poetry
30:01
is which i only realized recently.
30:04
See, I could sit down and write a book about my experiences,
30:07
but you're mired in that then for two or three years.
30:12
And you're doing chapters, which is great for people that want to do it.
30:16
For me, it became this thing of, I can write a poem and I know what it's about.
30:21
And maybe everyone does. Or there's other ones where people have no idea what
30:24
I'm actually talking about, really.
30:26
But I can get it out there and it's done.
30:29
Do you know what I mean? Yeah. That emotion, that feeling, that issue that we
30:32
went through, is is so i think that's kind of where and i actually kind of secretly
30:37
always read not secretly sounds terrible always really like certain types of
30:40
like irish poetry and just got away from it as i got older,
30:45
at what stage now did you realize that these poems actually are going to become
30:48
a book what made you kind of go i'm going to do a book of these poems now i
30:52
think i sent it to you and john and richie first yeah and once i got seven in i thought,
31:00
there's something here but then i didn't know if it was just,
31:04
me coming through what i was going through and thinking well this all resonates
31:08
with me and i sent it to you guys and separately the three of you kind of came
31:12
back and said the same thing was there's something here,
31:14
and one of you said you need to put these into a book write more of them so that was,
31:20
i was like three days.
31:24
This all sounds like years ago to me and honestly like this year has been mad
31:27
it sounds like i wrote this three years ago but it's last i think it was a week,
31:31
after i wrote the first one and i thought i'm going to keep going with this,
31:35
so that entire collection really was written by,
31:38
my birthday in april early april okay that was where the kind of whatever it
31:43
is 28 or 29 poems are in there,
31:46
if i was to ask you what is different about alan today and what kind of defines success for you now.
31:55
I'm happier, but it's a core happiness.
32:00
It doesn't, and I said this recently, I have ups and downs, but they're not like they were.
32:05
I had trouble sleeping last week. Or was it the week before?
32:10
For a couple of nights. And it's great. I didn't not sleep.
32:16
And it's kind of, you get back into your pattern again. So now the tools are there.
32:20
So I had some, like, I mean, I wouldn't have sound, but,
32:24
I, development issues where you don't have the tools with certain things so
32:27
you spiral now I don't spiral there's no and then the other thing is I love
32:32
my career my main career I love what I do yeah but it no longer defines me it's no longer,
32:38
not that I ever wore a badge around saying what I did but like it did sort of
32:42
define a lot of who I was um and it does less so now which is good it's like I enjoy the job,
32:49
I find it less stressful because I can go home of an evening and kind of sit
32:53
down and write or do that the podcast has been great as well because you know
32:56
i love to hear the sound of my own voice this is my next question you know are
33:00
you more comfortable in your own skin than ever before now yeah yeah,
33:04
yeah there's no and you can see that yeah i mean there's no there's kind of,
33:09
you know as i said i forgive myself now,
33:13
if i have a dip or if i have a bad moment or you know,
33:18
i'm i'm much more forgiving of myself it's not like around treating people like
33:21
shit going well I forgive myself so you have to too but it's yeah I mean it's
33:26
just much more content and also there is that element of.
33:31
Where like you said when you talk about the masking the one where I would agree with you is,
33:36
when people are asking if you're okay yeah I'm Grant and you're not Grant do
33:39
you know what I mean but you're like I'm Grant why I'm Grant and it's like you're
33:42
getting narky with them all well there's none of that anymore and like I didn't
33:46
as I said I didn't write this to be kind of,
33:49
without being crude balls out and everybody oh poor me but it was tough i don't
33:54
minimize these things anymore either,
33:56
and i and also i realized that it helps other people that may have gone through
34:00
something similar that you're not kind of minimizing it for them either yeah
34:03
you go no actually yeah that's really tough like yeah so yeah no that's just
34:07
um it's it's a i mean as i said i love doing all of this,
34:10
great and well again leads me on to the next question what's next,
34:15
so the second collection is with the publisher i'm going over the there's 60
34:19
poems in that one there's five phases it's very different,
34:23
the first phase is it's the five phases are the micro the the mighty,
34:28
musings mantic and then there's some christmas poems under mary the special
34:31
edition but there's really the five phases and it's there's there's some is
34:36
self-reflective but there's a story arc there's a pub character arc which is quite humorous,
34:41
the mantic which i like because it's not quite romantic, which when you read
34:44
them, you'll understand.
34:46
And there's some stuff, and it's very, it's really funny. There's one that I
34:48
wrote called Eternal Love, and it came out of a mad fucking dream I had after
34:55
one of the last bouts of really bad insomnia.
34:58
And the dream really stuck in my head. So I wrote a thing about it.
35:02
It's the longest poem I've written, actually.
35:04
So that's out mid-November. That's the rooted soul acceptance of joy.
35:09
I planned, believe it or not, from once I started to publish those,
35:12
I wanted to do a trilogy. I don't know why. I wanted to do three of them. Yep.
35:15
So that will come out before Christmas and I don't know because he details to
35:19
follow. And then as you know, we're in tomorrow.
35:22
You mean John? There's a live show in February, 25th of February,
35:26
MIX Hotel, the Exchange Sessions. So we're going to confirm that hopefully tomorrow.
35:30
And that's a live show around.
35:33
It's evolving, but it was originally around the first collection.
35:35
Now it's a celebration, the Irish music. So as you know, our friend John is
35:40
going to be playing guitar with me, singing a few songs of him,
35:43
but also some poetry, stories, jokes, things like that.
35:46
And then obviously I want to weave in some other stuff, maybe the pub character
35:50
action stuff, which I think are fairly funny to bring in as well.
35:53
So like you said, the first collection is quite dour and dark to start with.
35:59
You can't really keep people for an hour-long show on that one.
36:02
So there's a, there's lots coming on with that.
36:04
We're looking to, you know, there's some national broadcasters maybe looking
36:09
to do a profile and interview as well, which would be great.
36:11
Great. Yeah. And I want to try and get into some literary festivals for next,
36:14
like the West Cork Literary Festival. I really want to, really want to be part of next year.
36:18
So all that stuff is kind of going on. And also I have a nine to five Monday
36:22
Friday job as well, which I can't forget in case my boss is listening. That comes first.
36:27
Alan, it's been a privilege to hear your story through all the different versions
36:31
of your life the struggles, the grief, the healing and the forgiveness you've
36:34
managed to turn that experience into something meaningful through that rooted soul,
36:38
but I would like to finish on one final question if Alan sitting here today
36:43
could sit beside the younger Alan who was struggling what would he say to him?
36:49
Just to talk sorry, I'm not sure about that one that's okay that is okay there's no shame,
37:00
yeah okay well look thank you all for joining us here today if you've enjoyed
37:06
today's conversation be sure to check out Aaron's book The Rooted Soul and we'll
37:10
hopefully see you all on the next episode of the Rooted Soul podcast thank you.