Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 14 October

Transcript

The Kenny Report | 14 October · The Kenny Report

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This is The Kenny Report.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me tonight. A shocking day for Anthony Albanese,
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: his government and his ministers. There was a split at
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: the top with the Prime Minister at odds with the
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Treasurer over their backflip when it comes to credit card
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: tax payments. Tanya Plibersek's banning of a goldmine expansion was
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: overturned in the Federal Court, leaving other ministers to sort
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: out an unholy mess.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: And the small business minister, Anne Arley, had another shocker.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: And in her other portfolio, she's seen a government grant
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: go to an organisation promoting Jew hatred.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: What a day.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Shadow Energy Minister Dan Tehan will join me. Tom Switzer too.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I'll look at Greta Thunberg's latest stunt with Esther Krakow
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: in the UK. And we'll mix it all up in
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: the Wednesday Wrangle with Jamie and Justin.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: What a shocker of a day for the Albanese Labor government.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Facing outrage from around the country over their shafting of
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: small business by banning credit card surcharges and applying a
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: new tax on trusts, the debate started to divide the
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: government at the very top.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: After defending his measures for weeks.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Treasurer Jim Chalmers backed down last Friday over the Australian
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: tax officer's ban on credit card payments. Chalmers announced the
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: ban would be put on hold till next year. but
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: last night the PM revealed he was the one who
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: forced his Treasurer's hand.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Andrew did text me last Thursday morning and by Friday
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: morning we had an announcement and that was an example
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: of a relationship that takes time to develop as well,
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: that trust where you can have a discussion saying it's
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: in hand, I agree with what you are saying.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: This morning, Chalmers denied he'd been rolled and his defence
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: was about as convincing as his economics.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Were you rolled by the PA?
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: No, not at all.
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: Prime Minister and I were in discussions on Wednesday of
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: last week.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: He had a view, and I.
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: Agree with it, that we needed to step in to
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: provide this longer transition period.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they had a view, all right.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: But only the Prime Minister said he fixed it because
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: he got a text from a businessman. All this unfolds
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: as the federal government offers public servants a 9% pay
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: rise over three years. The public servants want 15%, so
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: we're set for haggling between a union-run government and the
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: major public sector unions. And while we don't know who'll win,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: we know who loses.
• 2:42
  Speaker 6: Taxpayers.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund has revised downwards its forecast
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: for economic growth in Australia.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: revised.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Upwards its employment, unemployment forecasts and has warned about government
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: spending and inflation. In response, though, the Treasurer was as
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: smug as ever.
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: Well, the World Economic Outlook makes it really clear that
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: inflation is going up around the world and the market's
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: expecting interest rate rises in every major advanced economy.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Sounds great. As for the Small Business Minister, who seemed
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: all at sea yesterday... Well, today she found a solution.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Just get someone to type out an answer and read
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: it out no matter what you're asked.
• 3:28
  Speaker 7: Mr Speaker, we've made the $ 20, 000 instant asset write-off permanent,
• 3:32
  Speaker 7: giving some certainty to small businesses. And we've made the
• 3:35
  Speaker 7: two-year loss carryback permanent, Both measures introduced by a Labor government,
• 3:41
  Speaker 7: both measures wound back by coalition governments. I meet with
• 3:44
  Speaker 7: small businesses regularly and regularly they tell me that the
• 3:48
  Speaker 7: two measures that this government has introduced, the $ 20, 000 instant
• 3:52
  Speaker 7: asset write-off being made permanent, the two-year loss carryback being
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: made permanent, have made a huge difference to them. Both
• 3:59
  Speaker 7: measures introduced by a Labor government, both measures wound back
• 4:02
  Speaker 7: by coalition governments.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: With debate firmly on his preferred ground of the economy,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: the opposition leader went in hard.
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: How much more humiliation does the Treasurer have to endure
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: before the Prime Minister puts him out of his misery
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: and sacks him?
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I find it absolutely extraordinary. That at a time.
• 4:26
  Speaker 8: Where there is someone, a former Treasurer, stalking this former
• 4:34
  Speaker 8: Shadow Treasurer, this former Shadow Treasurer, as we speak, that
• 4:39
  Speaker 8: he asks a question.
• 4:41
  Speaker 9: Because the bloke who is in danger of being sacked
• 4:46
  Speaker 9: is sitting right there.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: He's sitting right there.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: All a bit of bluff and bluster there from both
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: sides in the end. But what counts is the economic
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: reality and the impact of Labor's decisions. And none of
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: that is looking good for Albanese or Chalmers or for us.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: The next problem for Labor is another shocking example of
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Islamist extremism and Jew hatred that's been exposed. And the
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: organisation responsible for the intolerance and anti-Semitism has been receiving
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: your tax dollars... courtesy of the Albanese government. Talk about
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: national self-harm. The Daily Telegraph reports today that the One
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Path Network, a Muslim media organisation, was awarded.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: A $ 300, 000 government.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Grant in April, four months after the Bondi terror attack
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: and after this outfit had broadcast anti-Semitic, and extremist rhetoric.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Have a look at this one path clip where Zionists,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: a term which has often become a byword for Jews,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: are declared to be the mortal enemies of Islam.
• 6:01
  Speaker 10: Zionists are Jewish supremacists, as some scholars call them, are
• 6:08
  Speaker 10: mortal enemies of Islam. If you sit back and if
• 6:12
  Speaker 10: you wanna don't do anything, well, they will come after
• 6:16
  Speaker 10: you regardless.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Then there's another comment likening Israel's defence against Hamas in
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Gaza to the Nazis.
• 6:26
  Speaker 11: In fact, many would argue that there's no moral difference
• 6:30
  Speaker 11: between putting people in gas chambers and burning people alive
• 6:34
  Speaker 11: inside tents. Or when one side of the fence is
• 6:38
  Speaker 11: being incinerated alive while those on the other side are
• 6:42
  Speaker 11: enjoying pina coladas. I don't know about you, but I
• 6:45
  Speaker 11: kind of get Nazi vibes that are pretty hard to ignore.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: And yet another post even dismisses a firebomb attack on
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: a Jewish childcare centre and other anti-Semitic attacks in Sydney
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: as fake.
• 7:02
  Speaker 11: It was all a sham and the lie came crumbling down.
• 7:08
  Speaker 11: The entire saga and string of attacks were nothing more
• 7:12
  Speaker 11: than the doings of an underworld organised crime network, trying
• 7:17
  Speaker 11: to mislead the police and manipulate government resources. It had
• 7:22
  Speaker 11: absolutely nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Despite this material being publicly available, this organisation received.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: $ 300, 000 of your money.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And why was it given this funding? Well, according to
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: the government, it was to strengthen social cohesion and increase tolerance.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: The opposition took up the issue in Parliament.
• 7:49
  Speaker 12: In April, the Albanese government handed a $ 300, 000 grant to
• 7:53
  Speaker 12: the One Path Network, an Islamic media company which compared
• 7:57
  Speaker 12: Israel to Nazi Germany and claimed the firebombing of a
• 8:00
  Speaker 12: Jewish childcare centre in Sydney was staged.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Last night, the Minister for Home Affairs.
• 8:06
  Speaker 12: Told the Daily Telegraph that the Minister for Multicultural Affairs
• 8:09
  Speaker 12: was responsible for the grant. Why on earth did the
• 8:12
  Speaker 12: Minister give taxpayer funding to a group spilling hate-filled lies
• 8:16
  Speaker 12: about Jews?
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Now, these revelations and this question hit the mark. The
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: government had to admit fault. They're supposed to be funding
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: tolerance and social cohesion measures but they've been using your
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: money to deliver the opposite. And the minister carrying the
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: can is the Small Business Minister, Anne Ali, in her
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: other portfolio as Minister for Multicultural Affairs.
• 8:45
  Speaker 7: The decision that the member refers to was a decision
• 8:48
  Speaker 7: that was made by the department. The department has now
• 8:51
  Speaker 7: sent one path a notice of intention to terminate and
• 8:55
  Speaker 7: that begins the process of revoking the grant. The government
• 8:58
  Speaker 7: provided funding in this year's budget for a new technology
• 9:01
  Speaker 7: to scan the public statements of visa applicants. Today, I
• 9:06
  Speaker 7: directed the department to explore how this technology could also
• 9:10
  Speaker 7: be used in the grants application process. The grants process
• 9:13
  Speaker 7: has supported a wide range of community media outlets. And
• 9:17
  Speaker 7: the department is now, as I mentioned, has now delivered
• 9:22
  Speaker 7: a notice of intention to terminate.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: What a disgrace. How pathetic.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: As if you need technology, get onto social media and
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: do a bit of research. You've got staff and public
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: servants hanging from the rafters or working from home properly.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: They're everywhere, though. Get them to do the work, the
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: due diligence.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: They obviously were prepared to type out an answer for
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the Minister to read in Parliament.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: This is a government that did next to nothing.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: When Jew hatred emerged with unprecedented vitriol after October the 7th,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: three years ago. A government that ignored all the warnings
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: leading up to Bondi.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: A government that.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Resisted calls for the Bondi Royal Commission for weeks. A
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: government that hasn't fronted the Royal Commission. We learned today
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: that the Prime Minister didn't even make a submission.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And now we find again and again that.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Grants that are supposed to combat extremism are have been
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: doing the opposite. As I keep saying, this government imperils
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: our nation. And in another shocker today, there was a
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: telling blow in the courts against the Albanese government's green
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: agenda and Indigenous heritage overreach. It's also an important win
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: for our mining industry and the economy, and as it
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: happens for the local Aboriginal Land Council too.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: This issue of the Blaney gold mine near.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Bathurst and Orange in central western New South Wales has
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: been long and complex and critically important for the country,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: and we've covered it all the way on this program,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: revealing major developments in along the way as well. And finally, today,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: the Federal Court overturned a ban slapped on the project
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: two years ago by then Federal Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Justice James Stelios said the Minister's decision lacked procedural fairness.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Now, this is important on many levels.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Firstly, because Maybe this billion-dollar goldmine expansion will now go ahead.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: But also it might force governments to be a bit
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: more open and accountable when it comes to Indigenous heritage
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: claims because there is a bit of a catch here.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Before I get to that catch, let's recap the story
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: as we've covered it here so that we remind ourselves
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: about what's gone on. It's quite unbelievable. It really is
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: some story. And here's how we first covered it more
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: than two years ago. The Albanese Labor government has blocked
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: a critical project that's part of a billion-dollar gold mining
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: development in New South Wales on the grounds of Indigenous
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: cultural heritage. Understandably, after this and some other resources projects
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: being blocked because of Indigenous heritage claims, the mining industry
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: is worried about the sovereign risk of trying to invest
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: in this country.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Incredibly, in this case, the.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Orange Local Aboriginal Land Council says they've got no problem
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: with the mine or the tailings dam. Other Indigenous groups
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: apparently have a different view. But it gets even worse.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: While this ban has been slapped on over cultural heritage concerns,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: the Minister says she can't reveal all the details. Some
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: of these traditions have been disclosed to me privately and
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: must remain confidential due to their cultural sensitivity, Plibersek said.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: In a statement.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: If this site were to be desecrated, it would be
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: a threat to the continuation of the local Wiradjuri Indigenous culture.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Really? Really? She can't give us any more info? Yeah,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: it was flabbergasting.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: It reminded me of the Highmarsh Island secret women's business,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: a cultural heritage claim I exposed as a fabrication way
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: back in the 1990s, forcing a royal commission which confirmed
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: the fabrication. And sure enough, in this goldmine case, similar
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: allegations have been raised. You'll remember senior Wiradjuri man and
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: former State Land Council member Roy Arcee told me on
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Thursday he thinks the basis of the cultural claim might
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: be fake.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: And we've got an Aboriginal elder, he's a man who
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: speaks with authority and he believes that it's fabricated, that
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: what they're saying is, you know, isn't true at all and...
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: You know, and it makes a mockery of, you know,
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: our processes and of our people.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: This obviously needs careful investigation. And late today, the New
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: South Wales Aboriginal Land Council has bought into the debate
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: for the first time, demanding reform of the law because
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: of the issues highlighted by this episode. I can show
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: you what they've said now in a strongly worded statement.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: The council has declared its deep concern with the debate
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: surrounding the gold mine. and the weaponisation of Aboriginal culture
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: to serve political and commercial interests. The Council Chair, Raymond Kelly,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: goes on to say that Aboriginal cultural heritage should never
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: be used as a pawn for political posturing and advantage,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: saying the Council is concerned this.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: This is quite incredible, isn't it? Quite a saga.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: And just to repeat, the news today is that the
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Federal Court has overturned that ban on the mine expansion.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Now, the implications here are quite dramatic.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Governments can't, on the one hand, appoint Aboriginal land councils
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: as the local custodians and then block developments that they
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: approve based on new claims from other groups and individuals,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: especially when they're not properly tested. How can anyone invest
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: in this country when this sort of uncertainty is built
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: into important government approvals? Labor governments in particular are always
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: more inclined to prove how woke they are to parade
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: their virtue rather than approve important economic projects. But in
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: this case, the Labor Premier of New South Wales has
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: been a beacon of common sense against the madness from Canberra.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: Look, I want that mine to go ahead.
• 15:47
  Speaker 13: I understand that that's not the view of the federal government,
• 15:52
  Speaker 13: but we need the investment. There are more people in
• 15:56
  Speaker 13: mining jobs in New South Wales today than there were
• 15:58
  Speaker 13: when we were elected in March of 2023. We're proud
• 16:02
  Speaker 13: of that. It's a really important part of our economy.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: So now let's get to that catch I mentioned earlier.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: The federal court judgment today does not make any ruling
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: on the legitimacy or otherwise of the Indigenous objections to
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: the mine expansion. It merely finds that there were clear flaws...
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: in the process. So the application isn't scrapped altogether. Rather,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: it goes back to the Environment Minister. And that's now
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: a different minister, Murray Watt. Here's the Prime Minister on
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: this this afternoon.
• 16:38
  Speaker 14: I'm aware that the Federal Court has handed down its
• 16:41
  Speaker 14: judgement for this matter. I understand the Court found the
• 16:44
  Speaker 14: declaration was not validly made. This is a complex legal
• 16:49
  Speaker 14: case and as it's a legal matter, We will work
• 16:52
  Speaker 14: through the judgment together with the Attorney-General and we'll consider
• 16:56
  Speaker 14: the findings very carefully indeed.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: So there we go.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Even though this project had already won all the appropriate
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: state and federal approvals and then had a last-minute federal
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: ban overturned in the courts, it must now wait again
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: to see what the federal government does to handle the
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: highly contentious Indigenous heritage claims.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: What a way to run a country. Let's now go
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: to a man you saw.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: In that report, Wiradjuri leader and former New South Wales
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Aboriginal Land Council Chair, Roy R.C.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Roy, thanks for joining us again.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: You've been hot to trot on this issue all the
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: way along. As we showed there, you exposed what you
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: thought were dubious claims that were made against this plan
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: when the local Aboriginal Land Council had actually approved the mine.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: What do you want to happen now in that area?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Should the mine just be given the tick of approval
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: or are we going to have to go through all
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: this Indigenous cultural testing again?
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, look, Chris, thanks for having me on your program.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: And just by way of context for your listeners, the
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: local Aboriginal, They weren't for the mine, they weren't against it. However.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't object to it.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what the concern was, and what that says for me,
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: being involved in this space and being a Wiradjuri man
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: from country, is that if your local land council's not
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: opposed to it, well, then it's highly... Sorry, not opposed
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: to it, then it's highly likely that they're happy with
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: all the assessments that's been done, right?
• 18:40
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: So, however... what's concerning about this, and Chris, we spoke
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: about it sometime on your program, was that we knew
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: that this was a fundamentally flawed process. And to bastardize
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: Aboriginal culture and heritage and weaponize it to stop major
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: infrastructure projects that's gonna bring about Aboriginal prosperity for Aboriginal people, business, jobs, training, employment,
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: You know, it's crazy. The biggest killer of our people,
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: I said on your program time after time, Chris, is
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: not alcohol and drugs. It's absolute poverty and welfare dependency. Now,
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: of course, we want this mine to go ahead because
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: we want to create businesses for our First Nations people.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: And You know, the minister really needs to go back
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: and have a look at this. I'm not going to
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: tell him how to do his job. That's his job. However,
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: the last minister didn't listen to us. And look what happened.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Well, the issue here is, as you know, there'll be
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: lawyers all over this.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: But because this other group have raised objections, I would
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: expect that the newer environment minister is going to be
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: obliged to have a listen to those concerns again and
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: obviously has to come up with a different conclusion. Now,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: you and others have raised real questions about their connection
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: to this area, about the the Dreamtime stories they put up.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: In fact, you even used the word fabrication.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: So are you going to be able to knock out
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: this other claim so that the mine can go ahead?
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, look, we want to seek an urgent meeting with
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: Murray Watt, the Commonwealth Minister. We have to sit down
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: with him, you know, as soon as practical, just to
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: put forward, you know, our concerns and our position on
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: in relation to this project. And being from country and
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: being a Wurundjeri person and a Wurundjeri man, that's very,
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: very in touch with our communities. I think it's really
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: important that we get the green light for this because, Chris,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: we have to give investors certainty around projects on country.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: And this is going to create jobs and, you know,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: that economic prosperity for our people. We talk about close
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: the gap. We want to close the gap. Well, then
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: projects like this need to be given the green light
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: so that we can get a piece of it. We
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: need a piece of this. And we're really, really excited.
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: We're not surprised by the findings, Chris, today that the
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: court comes back and ruled on because You can't bastardise
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: Aboriginal culture and heritage. And it's not a win for
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: Aboriginal people, by the way, because, you know, when we
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: do have legitimate protection of culture and heritage sites, then
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: this doesn't help that process in either, unfortunately.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Well, this is the point.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: This is one mine and it's very important. But the
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: bigger issue is even more important. I referred to High
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Marsh Island, which I had personal involvement in. There was
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: a fabricated claim there to stop a bridge project there.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: We've had this gold mine south of Orange. There's been
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: the Barossa gas field off the Northern Territory. How can
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: we change the laws so that we get decent consideration
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: of Aboriginal and Indigenous claims, but we shut the gate
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: to bogus or questionable claims that come up specifically to
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: stop developments?
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: The solutions are with our local Aboriginal land councils, not
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: the New South Wales Aboriginal Land Council, the local Aboriginal
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: land councils, the 121 local land councils on the ground.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: For example, Orange Local Aboriginal Land Councils, they have the solutions. And, Chris,
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: the solution is they've got to review the Commonwealth legislation. Now,
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: I understand the minister is looking at better ways or
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: improving that legislation. And we're asking to be involved in
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: that process because at the end of the day, it's
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: pretty simple, Chris. If you haven't got a native title
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: claim that's successful, then you go to next step is
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: a statutory authority like a local Aboriginal land council. And
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: if you're not a statutory authority or a traditional owner
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: registered native title successful claimant, well, then... End of story.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Then it's not your business. It makes a lot of sense, Roy.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: It would streamline the processes for everyone. Thanks for joining us, Roy.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. And I appreciate your role in this
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: all the way along.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: And, Chris, look, it's always a pleasure to be on
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: your program because we need this truth talking. And, look,
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: we need certainty in our communities, not only for the
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: mining sector, but we need certainty for our communities as
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: well because, like I said, we were... We want to
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: be a part of this prosperity in this country.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Good man. Good man. Wise words.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks very much, Roy. I see you there joining us.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: He's been deeply involved in these issues all of his life.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Let's go to Canberra now and catch up with the
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Shadow Energy Minister, Dan Tehan. There's been plenty happening in
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Canberra today, Dan, but before we get to the economy,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: just your reaction to that.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: This is a mess.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, the High Marsh Island secret women's business was
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: 30 years ago now.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Good Lord.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, that consumed my life for many years. But
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: what came out of that was it needed to fix
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Indigenous heritage laws and investigations.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Right across the country. Here we are 30 years later,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: it's still a shambles.
• 24:28
  Speaker 15: Absolutely, Chris, and I've got some very bad news for
• 24:33
  Speaker 15: you and your viewers. The sad reality is the Albanese
• 24:38
  Speaker 15: Labor government is going to make it worse, not better,
• 24:43
  Speaker 15: because they're introducing legislation into the parliament.
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: which says that if there is disputes.
• 24:51
  Speaker 15: Now over native title holdings, then all parties can have
• 24:57
  Speaker 15: a say in what outcomes are. So if a traditional
• 25:01
  Speaker 15: owner group has native title but it's in dispute, they
• 25:07
  Speaker 15: are now introducing legislation which gives equal favour to those
• 25:13
  Speaker 15: who are challenging that native title. It is a complete
• 25:16
  Speaker 15: nutter mess. The Albanese Labor government doesn't get it. And
• 25:20
  Speaker 15: this goldmine decision, you would think, would put some common
• 25:24
  Speaker 15: sense into them, but sadly it's not going to be
• 25:27
  Speaker 15: the case. Yeah, and how do you get investments to
• 25:31
  Speaker 15: expand existing projects, to get new projects up in this country?
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: It just makes us a great sovereign risk, doesn't it?
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: Absolutely. A huge sovereign risk.
• 25:42
  Speaker 15: Can you think about the investment climate in Australia at
• 25:46
  Speaker 15: the moment?
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: You've got the.
• 25:48
  Speaker 15: Sovereign risk around native title holding now. You've got this
• 25:53
  Speaker 15: energy disaster, which Chris Bowen is overseeing, and the hypocrisy
• 25:58
  Speaker 15: of it. I mean, we saw that in Question Time today,
• 26:01
  Speaker 15: where we find out that his pre-COP in Fiji and
• 26:04
  Speaker 15: Tuvalu was run on diesel generators, not on renewables.
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: So this whole idea.
• 26:12
  Speaker 15: That we're moving away from fossil fuels and yet he
• 26:15
  Speaker 15: hosts a pre-cop climate festival and it's all run on diesel.
• 26:20
  Speaker 15: So we've got energy, you've got investment uncertainty, and then
• 26:24
  Speaker 15: you've got the new taxes which are coming in everywhere.
• 26:27
  Speaker 15: So who would want to invest in this country?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: It is a hell of a worry.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Let's get to whether or not Anthony Albanese rolled his Treasurer.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I've said often on this program that Labor doesn't listen
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: to small business, they're not interested, but they often talk
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: to big business because the unions play a role there
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: and they can deal with it. And in this grab,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: I'm going to show again of Anthony Albanese.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: He refers to Andrew. Andrew, of course, is Andrew.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: McKellar, who heads up the Chamber of Commerce and he's
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: speaking at their dinner.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Here's Anthony Albanese last night.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Andrew did text me last Thursday morning and by Friday
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: morning we had an announcement and that was an example
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: of a relationship that takes time to develop as well,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: that trust where you can have a discussion saying it's
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: in hand, I agree with what you are saying.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Now, small business and all sorts of commentators and politicians
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: were screaming at Albo to overturn this ATO decision.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Chalmers wasn't doing that. It's pretty clear there.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Albo gets a text message from his mate in business
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: and he just tells Chalmers what to do.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: But Chalmers is pretending it was all in hand, he
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: was going to do this anyway.
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: Well, can I say, watch this space.
• 27:50
  Speaker 15: The relationship between the Prime Minister and the Treasurer is
• 27:54
  Speaker 15: collapsing before our eyes. And we're seeing it in the
• 27:57
  Speaker 15: Parliament and we're seeing it out in public because the
• 28:00
  Speaker 15: Prime Minister said that last night.
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: Jim Chalmers was out today.
• 28:05
  Speaker 15: briefing against the Prime Minister saying he'd already made the
• 28:08
  Speaker 15: decision before that text message exchange took place. We have
• 28:14
  Speaker 15: backbench colleagues and it's looking more and more like it's
• 28:19
  Speaker 15: orchestrated out undermining the Treasurer, saying that the Treasurer doesn't
• 28:25
  Speaker 15: know what he's doing.
• 28:26
  Speaker 6: He's like a used car salesman.
• 28:29
  Speaker 15: We're seeing more and more Andrew Charlton in the spotlight.
• 28:32
  Speaker 15: We're seeing Daniel Molino, the Assistant Treasurer, in the spotlight.
• 28:37
  Speaker 6: And poor old Jim Chalmers is looking more and more isolated.
• 28:41
  Speaker 15: And from what I'm hearing, that relationship between the Prime
• 28:45
  Speaker 15: Minister and the Treasurer is getting very, very toxic. And
• 28:50
  Speaker 15: as we lead up to what everyone is assuming will
• 28:52
  Speaker 15: be some sort of reshuffle before Christmas, have a look
• 28:56
  Speaker 15: at Mark Butler.
• 28:57
  Speaker 6: start.
• 28:58
  Speaker 15: Positioning for the Treasurer's position because, as we all know,
• 29:01
  Speaker 15: he wants to replace Anthony Albanese from the same faction,
• 29:05
  Speaker 15: the left, and he will start positioning for that Treasury role.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: That's all the internal politics.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: What we need is for Albo to resign. He knows
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: he's finished. People have woken up to him. Resign and
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: go and live on that bloody big beach house he's
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: got up.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: On the Central Coast. Chalmers is finished. Yeah, get Andrew
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Charlton in there.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: He's the only guy in Labor who understands economics.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: You know, he's actually studied economics and run a business.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Get him in there.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: He might be able to do something, but maybe it's
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: too late anyway. Thanks for joining us, Dan. I appreciate it.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Dan Tehan there all.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Over it in Canberra. We've got to get to a break.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: On the other side, I'm going to unpack the controversy
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: around Trump and Putin and that diesel deal.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Tom Switzer will join us.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Now, the US President Donald Trump is facing a growing
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: backlash against that decision to buy diesel from Russia. And
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: it's not just from his political opponents. Some members of
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: his own party aren't happy with the deal.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Here's the latest from Fox News.
• 30:03
  Speaker 16: Some Republicans are splitting from President Trump over his.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Diesel deal with Russia.
• 30:08
  Speaker 8: Four GOP senators and two Democrats calling on the president
• 30:12
  Speaker 8: to immediately reverse course.
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: I completely reject that.
• 30:16
  Speaker 15: It's Vladimir Putin who owns the responsibility for energy prices
• 30:20
  Speaker 15: to the extent that they come from that part of
• 30:22
  Speaker 15: the world.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Just extraordinary.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Let's bring in columnist for The Australian, Tom Switzer. And, Tom,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: this is, you know, a typical Trump move, just a
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: complete 180-degree flip from his position. He's effectively in a
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: de facto war with Russia via Ukraine, yet now he's
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: funding the Russians through these diesel deals.
• 30:43
  Speaker 17: Well, Chris, the backlash is fully understandable. After all, the West,
• 30:47
  Speaker 17: including the United States, has gone to great lengths to
• 30:50
  Speaker 17: isolate Russia since its incursion in Crimea in 2014, and
• 30:56
  Speaker 17: especially since Russia's invasion of Ukraine more than four years ago.
• 31:01
  Speaker 17: But we should remember the surge in oil prices has
• 31:05
  Speaker 17: much more to do with the disruption around the Strait
• 31:09
  Speaker 17: of Hormuz. In other words, it's the war with Iran,
• 31:12
  Speaker 17: not so much Russia's war in Ukraine that's primarily responsible.
• 31:16
  Speaker 17: And I think we shouldn't lose sight of the consequences
• 31:18
  Speaker 17: of that.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also, of course, the deal itself shows the
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: desperation to try and deal with domestic gas prices in
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: the lead up to the midterms.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: Well, that's true.
• 31:31
  Speaker 17: But the other point too is, and you're quite right
• 31:33
  Speaker 17: to highlight the fact that both Democrats and Republicans are
• 31:37
  Speaker 17: railing against Trump on this issue. But I think some
• 31:41
  Speaker 17: of the Western commentary about Trump's willingness to deal with
• 31:45
  Speaker 17: Putin is a bit overblown. I know that's much a
• 31:48
  Speaker 17: minority view, but in my judgment, there are perfectly legitimate
• 31:52
  Speaker 17: American strategic arguments for ending the war in Ukraine, and
• 31:56
  Speaker 17: Washington needs to think about its long-term interests. It's China,
• 32:00
  Speaker 17: not Russia, Chris. That's America's principal strategic competitor. And over time,
• 32:06
  Speaker 17: it makes strategic sense for Washington... to develop a closer
• 32:09
  Speaker 17: relationship with Moscow to counterbalance against China, which represents the
• 32:14
  Speaker 17: true peer competitor threat to the United States in our
• 32:18
  Speaker 17: own neighbourhood.
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: But that's a minority.
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: View in Washington.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: But just quickly also, when you talk about the Iranian situation,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: we've seen the Houthis striking airports in Saudi Arabia.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Now, this again is the Shia uprising.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: To what degree is Iran still able to either fund
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: or control the Houthis and their attacks on the Saudis?
• 32:38
  Speaker 17: Well, it's true that Houthis are aligned with Iran. After all,
• 32:41
  Speaker 17: they're Shia Muslims, whereas most of the Persian Gulf states
• 32:47
  Speaker 17: that are allied with the United States are Sunni Muslim. But, look,
• 32:51
  Speaker 17: these guys, the Houthi rebels, are tough opponents. They've been
• 32:56
  Speaker 17: fighting Saudi Arabia and its Sunni allies in Yemen's civil
• 32:59
  Speaker 17: war since, what, 2014, maybe 2015, and they've demonstrated a
• 33:04
  Speaker 17: formidable capacity... to retaliate with missiles and drones. And I
• 33:09
  Speaker 17: think the danger here is that we in the West
• 33:11
  Speaker 17: have underestimated these rebels' ability to fight back with tremendous force.
• 33:17
  Speaker 17: It's really quite remarkable what they've been able to do
• 33:19
  Speaker 17: to Saudi Arabia in the last week.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sure is, and quite worrying.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Now, when it comes to dealing with all these issues publicly,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: communicating the Trump administration's views on all of this, the
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: press secretary in the White House is very important. They
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: actually field most of the questions and answer the journalists
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: and end up in live television news conferences. And the
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: new one started overnight. Her name is Katie Zachariah.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Have a look.
• 33:47
  Speaker 16: The idea of not spending evenings with my kids is
• 33:50
  Speaker 16: completely unacceptable. So my husband, that's a good one, my
• 33:57
  Speaker 16: husband is out here for the week.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: It was an inauspicious start, wasn't it, Tom?
• 34:07
  Speaker 17: You know, I remember Condi Rice, Condoleezza Rice, once saying
• 34:11
  Speaker 17: the same thing about her husband. President George W. Bush,
• 34:16
  Speaker 17: for whom she worked as National Security Advisor and Secretary
• 34:19
  Speaker 17: of State. She said that. And I think it's a
• 34:21
  Speaker 17: reminder that even in the White House, the line between
• 34:25
  Speaker 17: Politics and family life can occasionally get a little blurred.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Well, no one could possibly question Condi's smarts, but I
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: think Katie Zachariah is going to lift her game. There
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: are other parts in that press conference we'll show later
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: which shows she really struggled. But she does have incredibly
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: big shoes to fill because Caroline Leavitt was brilliant.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Have a look at that.
• 34:47
  Speaker 18: Democrats behaving like children would be the least surprising thing
• 34:50
  Speaker 18: of the night.
• 34:51
  Speaker 19: Of course the president supports peaceful protests.
• 34:52
  Speaker 18: What a stupid question. With all due respect, only a
• 34:55
  Speaker 18: reporter from the New York Times would ask a question
• 34:57
  Speaker 18: like that, Sean. The president's claims just don't match up
• 34:59
  Speaker 18: with what's happening on the ground. I would encourage you
• 35:01
  Speaker 18: as a reporter to go on the ground and to
• 35:03
  Speaker 18: take a look at it for yourself. Your understanding is wrong.
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: Have you read the full plan?
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: She was brilliant, Tom. Tough, smart, cool under pressure. So
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: it's not going to be easy to fill those shoes.
• 35:16
  Speaker 17: A difference there between the two press secretaries at face
• 35:19
  Speaker 17: glance is chalk and cheese. Carolyn Levitt was really sharp, smart, articulate.
• 35:25
  Speaker 17: She really was on the front foot with the press corps.
• 35:29
  Speaker 17: The new one at this stage leaves a lot to
• 35:31
  Speaker 17: be desired, but, you know, she'll grow into the job. And, look,
• 35:35
  Speaker 17: you've got to cut her some slack for getting the
• 35:37
  Speaker 17: President mixed up with her husband.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: These things happen.
• 35:39
  Speaker 17: I sometimes call my wife the Minister for Home.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Affairs, Chris. LAUGHTER I think she's a benevolent dictator, actually.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: I know her well. Thanks for joining us, Tom Switzer.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: We'll catch you next week. We're going to get to
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: a break.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: After the break, we'll check in on Greta Thunberg's latest
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: stunt in Europe. We'll speak with Esther Krakow in the UK.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Greta Thunberg has found another bandwagon to jump onto with
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: the Swedish activist joining student demonstrations in France over... school funding,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: staff shortages and a whole host of other issues. See
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: if you can work out what she's trying to say.
• 36:19
  Speaker 20: Whether it is.
• 36:20
  Speaker 18: Student rights, migrant rights, workers' rights, social justice in general,
• 36:24
  Speaker 18: or climate justice, environmental justice, we know that we have
• 36:28
  Speaker 18: the same enemy, which is this extremely destructive, harmful system,
• 36:33
  Speaker 18: which is sacrificing the whole planet and the vast majority
• 36:38
  Speaker 18: of the global population at the expense of a fortunate
• 36:40
  Speaker 18: few to keep making short-term economic profits for a few
• 36:47
  Speaker 18: and maintaining geopolitical power.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Just babble. Just nuts. She's a professional protester.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: As I said earlier today, she'd turn up if there
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: was a protest in the third at Warrnambool. Let's bring
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: in the writer and broadcaster Esther Krakow again from London.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Good to talk to you, Esther.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're going to have a protest and
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: she can get there, she'll be there, right?
• 37:10
  Speaker 21: Yes, it's becoming the I protest for whatever the people
• 37:13
  Speaker 21: in front of me believe, which is quite a convenient position.
• 37:17
  Speaker 21: I mean, this is someone who skipped the climate conference
• 37:21
  Speaker 21: in Baku, I believe, to go and protest the elections
• 37:26
  Speaker 21: in Georgia.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Which is very strange.
• 37:29
  Speaker 21: This is the same person that started shouting about no
• 37:32
  Speaker 21: climate justice on occupied land in Gaza. So clearly the
• 37:37
  Speaker 21: Omni cause is her real cause. And whatever is fashionable
• 37:41
  Speaker 21: at the moment, I mean, I just, I cannot believe
• 37:42
  Speaker 21: she turned up to a school in the north of
• 37:44
  Speaker 21: Paris to protest what French students are protesting about overheating
• 37:49
  Speaker 21: classes and the fact that they don't have enough teachers
• 37:53
  Speaker 21: and the fact that these students have been causing such
• 37:56
  Speaker 21: so much chaos and property damage that one city alone
• 37:59
  Speaker 21: is quoting like 30 million euros in property damage. And
• 38:02
  Speaker 21: this is the thing that Greta Thunberg thinks deserves her attention.
• 38:07
  Speaker 21: And I wish I had her bank account and the
• 38:12
  Speaker 21: kind of rich parents that allows her to live this way,
• 38:14
  Speaker 21: because I really can't understand it. This is a grown woman.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: I would never get away with behaving like this.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: In a way, though, her incoherent rant there kind of
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: summarises the problem with this sort of digital media-driven... antipathy
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: we see across the Western world when it comes to
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: railing against Israel, railing against fossil fuels, railing against capitalism.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is no coherent sort of ideology there
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: or rationale. It's just a juvenile lashing out at the system.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: It's just that whatever's seen to be the system or
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: the establishment, they're railing against it.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 38:55
  Speaker 21: And in many ways, I'm kind of glad for people
• 38:57
  Speaker 21: like Greta Thunberg, because it just shows the lack of
• 38:59
  Speaker 21: critical thinking that goes into a lot of these protest
• 39:05
  Speaker 21: movements against whatever they fancy. I always find it ironic
• 39:09
  Speaker 21: that you have the young people tweeting about how evil
• 39:13
  Speaker 21: capitalism is from their iPhones. But someone like Greta Thunberg
• 39:17
  Speaker 21: embodies that perfectly. Where else in human history would you
• 39:21
  Speaker 21: have a 23-year-old, basically economically inactive young woman traipsing around
• 39:26
  Speaker 21: the world in a flotilla to go and rant about things?
• 39:29
  Speaker 21: she clearly doesn't understand in the slightest. I mean, I
• 39:32
  Speaker 21: can't even believe people go to her protests. It's like
• 39:34
  Speaker 21: the congregation of the bone idol and mentally unwell.
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: You really couldn't make it up.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Well, you couldn't make it up, and it just shows
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: how crazy we are. This is someone who, when she
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: was 15 years old, was feted as some sort of
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: font of wisdom at the United Nations headquarters in New
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: York City.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: It is absurd.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Let's go to national security and that terrorism plot against
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: the RAF base, the military base.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: In the UK.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: We've heard from the MI5 boss some more detail about that.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Here he is.
• 40:06
  Speaker 20: We continue to see familiar Iranian intent, using criminal proxies
• 40:10
  Speaker 20: to try to intimidate oppositionists, Iranian media organisations and Israeli sites.
• 40:17
  Speaker 20: But 2026 has also seen the Iranians, like the Russians...
• 40:20
  Speaker 20: attempting to expand their hybrid campaign. Over the last 12 months,
• 40:26
  Speaker 20: our Iran-linked operations have led to more than 50 arrests
• 40:29
  Speaker 20: in the UK.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Well, Esther, the UK has been pathetic when it comes
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: to this war against Iran.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: It hasn't helped the US.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: In fact, it's made it harder by refusing to allow
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: it to use its bases. Will this change the approach
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: of Andy Burnham and the Labor government? Would they actually
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: understand the evil of Iran and how it needs to
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: be addressed?
• 40:54
  Speaker 21: Unfortunately not. Being completely lacking in any sort of imagination
• 40:59
  Speaker 21: is something that we've unfortunately found is an acute illness
• 41:03
  Speaker 21: of our politicians. And it's not just the labor politician problem.
• 41:07
  Speaker 21: It's the Tories going back to the 80s when they
• 41:09
  Speaker 21: decided to basically underfund and hollow out our military. And
• 41:14
  Speaker 21: you hear the chief of MI5 during the presentation of
• 41:18
  Speaker 21: the new AI Threat Assessment Center talking about the fact
• 41:22
  Speaker 21: that they've actually foiled plots and how a lot of
• 41:24
  Speaker 21: our enemies are using AI now to try and target
• 41:28
  Speaker 21: key infrastructure. And you just think, hmm, maybe it's not
• 41:31
  Speaker 21: a good idea to let unvetted, undocumented men from God
• 41:35
  Speaker 21: knows where to rock up on our.
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: Shores in dinghies.
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: And when you hear even.
• 41:40
  Speaker 21: The way that our Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, talks tough
• 41:44
  Speaker 21: about our military and Britain's might and all of that,
• 41:47
  Speaker 21: and you just think our Navy can't even stop a dinghy.
• 41:52
  Speaker 21: We are so far behind and so woefully underprepared for
• 41:57
  Speaker 21: the threats of the modern world that it's almost treasonous.
• 42:00
  Speaker 21: And if you look back at how previous successive governments
• 42:03
  Speaker 21: have treated our defense forces, it's horrifying. And the fear
• 42:10
  Speaker 21: is only added upon by the fact that we're letting
• 42:14
  Speaker 21: thousands of military-aged men into the country.. on a daily basis,
• 42:20
  Speaker 21: and there's nothing we can do to stop it. It
• 42:22
  Speaker 21: doesn't matter how we vote, doesn't matter how many times
• 42:24
  Speaker 21: we vote, it just seems to be something that our
• 42:26
  Speaker 21: politicians are happy to let happen.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: It is absolutely reckless. It is national self-harm. What a tragedy.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Esther. Catch up with you next week.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: We're going to get to a break. Don't go anywhere, though,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: because Justin Smith and Jamie Johnson will join us for
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: the Wednesday wrangle when we come back. Let's get into
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: the Wednesday wrangle with Jamie Johnson on the desk here
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: with me.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Good to see you again, Jamie. And Justin Smith. In Melbourne.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Tell us, guys, I want to talk about how.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Jim Chalmers had made this speech last night where he
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: was saying that the Labor lefties don't want to get
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: too smug and don't.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Attack the people who are going to vote One Nation.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: He says you've got to get rid of that smug
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: sort of moral superiority. How would you go with that, Justin,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: getting rid of your smug moral superiority when talking about
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: One Nation voters?
• 43:21
  Speaker 19: Mate, life just wouldn't be worth living anymore if one
• 43:25
  Speaker 19: can't be smug and superior to others.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Actually, I think.
• 43:31
  Speaker 19: And good afternoon to both of you. As I settle
• 43:34
  Speaker 19: into some smugness, I actually think it's probably one of
• 43:37
  Speaker 19: the smartest things that someone from the major political parties
• 43:42
  Speaker 19: has said about One Nation for quite a while, because
• 43:46
  Speaker 19: it's absolutely bang on. It's not how you're going to
• 43:49
  Speaker 19: be able to... attack One Nation, if that's what your
• 43:53
  Speaker 19: plan is. I mean, the Liberal Party has all but
• 43:57
  Speaker 19: finished itself off by being smug. Labor was heading, certainly
• 44:01
  Speaker 19: heading down the same track as well. So it's probably
• 44:04
  Speaker 19: one of the... Smartest thing that's been said?
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: It's a sound argument. It's the sort of thing most
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: of us have been saying.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's trying to warn Labor not to deliver
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: a sort of deplorables moment like Hillary Clinton, I suppose.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: My point about this, though, no-one can preach about smugness
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: with less authority than Jim Chalmers. He is Mr Smug.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Before I come to you, Jamie, let's show everyone a
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: little bit of what.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: He had to say.
• 44:31
  Speaker 22: Our role as progressive people is not to scold those
• 44:34
  Speaker 22: who see appeal in that message. It's not to mock them,
• 44:37
  Speaker 22: dare I say cancel them, or talk down to them.
• 44:40
  Speaker 22: And you do that by starting not from a place
• 44:43
  Speaker 22: of smug moral superiority, but from a place of genuine
• 44:47
  Speaker 22: respect and understanding.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Said Jim Smugly. I tell you what. Talk about hypocrisy.
• 44:54
  Speaker 23: I mean, he says, dare I say, cancel them, but
• 44:57
  Speaker 23: we'll just, you know, control the algorithm to silence them
• 45:00
  Speaker 23: all instead. It's just ridiculous. I think that this was condescending.
• 45:05
  Speaker 23: You know, the fact that he's saying that people who
• 45:07
  Speaker 23: have political dissent or want to push back on, you know,
• 45:10
  Speaker 23: taxation or migration, that it's emotional.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: They're just..... feel.
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: They're just emotional. Yeah.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: They're just getting a bit angry. Well, he even said.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: He even said, if you... They've got all the facts
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: on all this.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: All the facts... All the facts favour Labor's arguments. Their
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: opponents are emotional. Which facts would favour Labor at the moment, Justin?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: What, the level of inflation or the trillion dollars of
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: government debt or the 40 decades ahead of budget deficits?
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Where are the facts that support his arguments?
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 45:43
  Speaker 19: His argument really fell down, didn't it, when he started
• 45:47
  Speaker 19: to talk about feelings and the way people feel about things. Well,
• 45:52
  Speaker 19: it's the way that people have been feeling about the
• 45:53
  Speaker 19: major parties that has seen them up to their bottom
• 45:56
  Speaker 19: lip in poos. So they've got to do a hell
• 45:59
  Speaker 19: of a lot better. One Nation's got to do better
• 46:01
  Speaker 19: as well. They've got to do better at answering questions.
• 46:03
  Speaker 19: Liberal Party's got to become a better opposition. Labor Party's
• 46:06
  Speaker 19: got to become a hell of a lot better government
• 46:08
  Speaker 19: than they are right now. They've just got to start
• 46:10
  Speaker 19: doing better. I think we're in the mood for better.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Now, we're running out of time.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: I want to show you something from a film, might
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: have been a telemovie, I think, based on a book
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: set in Melbourne by a Victorian author.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Here it is, The Slap.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: GIGO, PUT THE BAT DOWN!
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: GIGO, GIVE ME THE BAT! GIVE ME THE BAT! GIVE
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: ME THE BAT!
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: PUT THE BAT DOWN!
• 46:32
  Speaker 9: GIGO, YOU'RE OUT!
• 46:33
  Speaker 13: GIGO, GIVE ME THE BAT!
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: GIGO, PUT IT DOWN!
• 46:35
  Speaker 16: Hey, hey, that's enough!
• 46:36
  Speaker 11: Okay?
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: No more! You understand? Wow, that's a bit over the top.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: No wonder it was controversial. That was one hell of
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: a slap across the face.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: The reason I mention this, though, Jamie, is that two-thirds
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: of people, according to a new survey, say it's OK
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: to smack children with a wooden spoon or the like.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Does that surprise you? No, not at all.
• 46:59
  Speaker 23: And, in fact, the thing that did surprise me about
• 47:02
  Speaker 23: this was that... The senior research fellow, Hayley Boxall, said
• 47:05
  Speaker 23: that she and her team were really shocked at the result.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: They'd obviously never been smacked as children.
• 47:10
  Speaker 23: Well, they've either never been smacked or this actually just
• 47:13
  Speaker 23: shows for me the divide between, like, academia in this
• 47:17
  Speaker 23: country and the mass public, because I'm not at all
• 47:20
  Speaker 23: surprised that everyday Australians think it's OK, within reason.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Not bruising.
• 47:25
  Speaker 23: I mean, there was very specific things pointed out in
• 47:27
  Speaker 23: this survey, but disciplinary action.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Which is a piece of wood.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: I must admit, when I dug it... I got a
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: good wooden spoon in my time. I read the slap
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: at the time and saw that telemovie, Justin.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: I was surprised when we dug out that clip, it
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: was a slap across the face like that. No-one would
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: condone that. But surely a smack on the bottom or
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: with a wooden spoon, most people... It wouldn't surprise you, Justin,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: that most people... Not that people are out there doing
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: it every day, but I wouldn't be out there condemning it.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: It's all... I mean, it's all a matter of degrees.
• 47:59
  Speaker 19: If you happened to pick up a wooden spoon and
• 48:01
  Speaker 19: gave a tap on the bum, you'd say, OK, but
• 48:03
  Speaker 19: if it's part of your discipline in life to hit
• 48:06
  Speaker 19: kids with pieces of wood, I'd say you need help,
• 48:09
  Speaker 19: to be frank.
• 48:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: We don't want too much of that stuff at all.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: I want to go to something else. We touched on
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: it earlier. It was the new press sec in the
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: White House, Katie Zachariah. Here's some more of her opening gambit.
• 48:23
  Speaker 16: I am so honoured... to work for President Trump and
• 48:28
  Speaker 16: the American people as the new White House press secretary.
• 48:32
  Speaker 16: I want to thank President Trump for his trust that
• 48:38
  Speaker 16: he has placed in me. I have wanted to work
• 48:42
  Speaker 16: for him for a very long time.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: She really struggled. But it's the toughest gig. It is tough.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: She has big shoes to fill. The eyes of the
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: world on you and a bunch of antagonists in front
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: of you. Absolutely. Big shoes to fill.
• 48:58
  Speaker 23: You said it before, I think, when you were speaking
• 49:00
  Speaker 23: with Tom, and it made me think when I watched it,
• 49:03
  Speaker 23: the old Michael Jordan, be like Mike. I think she's
• 49:05
  Speaker 23: got to be like Levitt.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Be like Caroline Levitt, yeah. What I think is interesting
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: about this, Justin.
• 49:12
  Speaker 19: Don't be smug, Justin.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Don't be smug. Don't be smug, Justin. Hold it in.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Hold it in. What I think... Don't be smug.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: is one of the things that I think is intriguing
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: about the American political system, where you have press secretaries
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: fronting press conferences like that.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: You know, you actually have an employed person to do that.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: It's unusual in our system, except with One Nation, where,
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: for a long while, Pauline Hanson's right-hand man, James Ashby,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: has been in the media.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Here's a little bit of his work.
• 49:39
  Speaker 11: Mm.
• 49:40
  Speaker 9: This is a very dishonest Labor government that we have.
• 49:44
  Speaker 9: That's why Anthony Albanese has been labelled a liar because
• 49:48
  Speaker 9: the last two terms of government he's done nothing but
• 49:50
  Speaker 9: lie to the Australian people.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: James Ashby there, you see him on News 24 quite regularly,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: but it's unusual for someone who's not elected to a
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: political position to be out there talking on behalf of
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: a party in Australia, but less so in the US.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, guys. I appreciate it, Justin. And, Jamie,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: we'll catch you next time. That is all the time
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: we've got for you. I'm off tomorrow night. Steve Price
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: will be in the chair. Coming up next, though, of course,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: is Peter Quedlin.