Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / AI Innovation for the Classroom, Done Right: Brisk Teaching with Arman Jaffer

Transcript

AI Innovation for the Classroom, Done Right: Brisk Teaching with Arman Jaffer · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
0:03
podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
0:07
Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
0:09
as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
0:12
technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
0:15
conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
0:18
we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
0:21
and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
0:25
and let's integrate this. Welcome once again
0:39
to the integrate this podcast. I'm Jeremy Micla
0:42
and I am joined by co -host David burner And
0:46
as you can see we have a special guest with us
0:49
here to for today's conversation We're really
0:52
excited to bring on Arman Jaffer. Arman is the
0:56
CEO founder of brisk teaching and we're really
1:00
looking forward to kicking off a great conversation
1:05
centered around AI and AI innovations as well
1:10
as the brisk platform. And so, Armand, we like
1:14
to kind of have our guests kind of give a little
1:18
bit of their own introduction. You know, nothing,
1:22
it doesn't have to be anything terribly long,
1:24
but just to give the listeners, the viewers,
1:26
just a little bit of sense of who you are, kind
1:29
of what your origin is, where you came from,
1:32
and how you got to be in this role that you have
1:35
today. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Jeremy
1:38
and David, for having me. I'm super excited to
1:41
be here and share a little bit more about brisk.
1:43
So I've jumped around a lot in my career. I watched
1:46
the West Wing growing up and so always wanted
1:48
to work in the White House. That was my first
1:50
dream. And so right after college, had the chance
1:53
to do that under the Obama administration and
1:56
a little bit under Trump. I was working in the
1:58
office of the CTO, kind of working on a couple
2:01
of initiatives, including education. And then
2:04
in 2017 ended up jumping over to the Chan Zuckerberg
2:07
initiative. And for those of you who aren't familiar,
2:10
it's a philanthropy with a fairly significant
2:12
education arm. And so I had this opportunity
2:15
pretty early on in the foundation's history to
2:19
basically start a team called Notebooks, really
2:21
focused on a problem that I felt very passionately
2:23
about at the time, which was that with the educators
2:26
that I was talking to, it felt like Google Docs
2:29
and Microsoft really weren't solving the real
2:32
problem for classroom collaboration. And so I
2:35
ended up building with a fairly large team this
2:37
product called Notebooks, which was really intended
2:39
to be something similar to Google Docs, except
2:41
really tailored for classroom use cases. And
2:44
so spent a couple of years there leading a team
2:48
focused on that, particularly during the pandemic
2:51
was a really informative moment for me, because
2:53
I felt like in some ways, you know, we layered
2:56
on more and more technology onto educators at
2:58
that moment. and that things started to get really
3:01
fragmented. There was already a lot of one -to
3:04
-one devices, but particularly during the pandemic
3:07
and post pandemic it felt like if you asked the
3:09
teacher to open up their laptop there were just
3:11
hundreds and hundreds of tabs and that in some
3:13
ways really what educators were asking for and
3:16
what felt like the biggest blocker to instructional
3:19
quality and fidelity was just the lack of coherence
3:23
in the classroom with respect to technology and
3:26
so coming out of that role at CZI I really felt
3:29
passionate that I wanted to do something in ed
3:32
tech, but to almost decrease the entropy of the
3:34
universe to actually allow educators to be thoughtful
3:37
again, rather than feeling like almost operators
3:39
of all of these systems, whether they be SIS
3:41
and LMS and docs and curriculum. And so, you
3:46
know. really got excited about what chat GPT
3:49
was doing, was really fascinated about some of
3:51
the capabilities and felt like rather than building
3:54
at another platform, there would be a way to
3:56
almost build an anti -tool, to really build the
3:58
glue between the different systems that teachers
4:00
use to be able to not just save time for educators,
4:04
but to also improve the practice as well by almost
4:08
getting technology out of the way. And so launched
4:11
in the fall of 2023 brisk and we've been fortunate
4:15
enough that our product has really just fit in
4:18
with a lot of educators workflows. So one in
4:20
four teachers in the US now have brisk installed
4:23
and we've scaled to millions and millions of
4:26
students as well. And really excited about what
4:29
this next stage is for AI. I think in some ways,
4:32
you know, the last couple of years have really
4:34
been focused on this space like this educator
4:36
co -pilot space. And I think going forward, I'm
4:39
really excited for AI to really kind of disrupt
4:43
some of the existing systems or broader kind
4:48
of structures like curriculum that really need
4:51
to be reimagined in the world of AI. So really
4:54
excited to share more about that as we chat.
4:56
Yeah, and I want to get into some of that but
4:58
you brought up the West Wing which which made
5:00
me kind of think I'd like Which which character
5:03
do you think you were? Initially drawn to that
5:06
worked like an Alice and Janney character or
5:09
the Bradley Whitford the Rob Lowe, you know Or
5:11
did you think you were you were Martin Sheen?
5:14
Definitely the Bradley Whitford Josh Lyman You
5:18
know chaotic but really passionate and works
5:21
really hard but also has a little bit of messiness
5:24
inside him. That's definitely me What about you,
5:27
you both? You know, I kind of like the chief
5:33
of staff character, you know, because to me,
5:37
he kind of seemed like that was the guy that
5:39
really ran the show, right? And controlled, managed
5:43
all the people, kept their egos all in check,
5:45
but yet... You know, it's a power driven thing
5:48
that I'm sure he felt too. I can't think of the
5:51
actor's name. I could picture him right now at
5:53
the top of my head. Yeah, Leo McGarry, but I'm
5:54
trying to think about what the actor's name is.
5:57
I forgot. I'm going to be taking. Yeah, yeah,
6:00
but that's OK. So, you know, when you think about
6:04
these different positions that you, in the roles
6:07
that you've had, and you talk about how you notice
6:12
some of the overburdens that teachers were bringing
6:15
in, and I think that leads us into how did brisk
6:20
then kind of become you know the I don't want
6:25
to call it just a tool because I think it's more
6:26
than just a tool I think it's a it's a copilot
6:29
it's a it's an assistant but you know how does
6:32
brisk set itself apart from other ed tech AI
6:37
and education tools that are available in the
6:39
space Yeah, and I think that answer is evolving,
6:43
but in ways that still are very aligned with
6:45
why we started brisk at first. So we started
6:48
brisk because we thought that teachers didn't
6:50
yet need another thing to do. In some ways that
6:53
if you think about all the things that we ask
6:55
educators to do, if you add on AI as another
6:58
thing, another platform, you can't actually reimagine
7:02
all the time and investments that teachers are
7:04
making in those other tools already. So you're
7:06
in some ways potentially adding more time rather
7:08
than subtracting it. And so that's why we started
7:11
out as an extension, whether it be in Chrome
7:14
or Edge, was to just reimagine the educator workload,
7:17
actually take things away, rather than add a
7:19
new platform. So for the last two to two and
7:21
a half years, that's really been brisk spread
7:24
and butter. That in some ways, it was integrated
7:26
on top of the things that you were already doing,
7:29
rather than being a separate platform. As we
7:32
continue to grow and transition, that idea of
7:36
not being another thing will continue to be really,
7:39
really formative. Although we've expanded beyond
7:41
just being an extension because now we also have
7:44
a web platform, but that web platform is different
7:47
than other platforms because it's really tied
7:49
to Google, Microsoft being able to output the
7:53
types of formats that teachers are already using.
7:55
So they don't need to copy paste. But also when
7:58
we, when you think about feedback, you know,
8:00
brisk You know brisk feedback tools are really
8:02
powerful as an extension, but we also found that
8:05
over time educators were saying hey I'd like
8:07
to give feedback on 100 assignments really quickly
8:10
because I want to give feedback on drafts that
8:12
otherwise would never have gotten feedback on
8:14
the first place and so we've built like a platform
8:16
that allows educators to kind of streamline a
8:19
lot of their workflows and to almost have this
8:22
for lack of a better phrase like a cockpit view
8:26
of all the things that they're doing in their
8:28
classroom and so That's definitely something
8:31
that we're continuing to do, but just to highlight
8:33
kind of the thing that will always remain true
8:35
about Brisk is that it's not yet another thing,
8:38
which is where we think some of the other solutions
8:40
in this space might be more additive rather than
8:43
subtractive to the workflow of educators. So
8:45
would you say it's not a new cake, but it's the
8:48
icing on the cake? Yeah, I love that. Well, Jeremy,
8:52
you should be on our marketing team. That's a
8:55
good way to put it. Yeah, so in our mind like
8:59
I can I can remember to Jeremy and I when brisk
9:03
first came out we did like a couple of tutorials
9:05
and things like that and it was one of the things
9:08
that definitely did set it apart for us was that
9:11
you just because it was an extension the ability
9:14
to lay it into different things like Into into
9:18
Google Docs or the website thing was huge where
9:21
you could pull in You know basically create things
9:24
off of websites or like the YouTube videos, all
9:28
those things were really great. And I remember
9:30
when we kind of showed it to teachers early on,
9:34
that was something that I think struck them because
9:36
it gave them a tool to use within what they're
9:40
already doing very easily. And so could you talk
9:43
a little bit just about teacher use and their
9:47
experimentation? Maybe even if you had some examples
9:51
of how you've seen it used well or what the intention
9:55
behind some of the tools are, like anything from
9:59
the creating slides, you know, with like Google
10:02
Slides or anything like that. What have you seen
10:03
that you like the most or has been helpful to
10:07
teachers? Yeah, I think one of the things that
10:11
has been really interesting about building Brisk
10:14
is that educators have different workloads that
10:17
they gravitate to in some ways, and so I think
10:20
about this instructional cycle of instruction,
10:24
the differentiation, the assessment of impact,
10:30
and then the adaptation, and that in some ways
10:32
BRIST kind of sits across each stage of the instructional
10:35
cycle, where we try to in some ways rather than
10:38
fragment, which is in what EdTech has traditionally
10:41
done, which is like you have your LMS, you have
10:42
your curriculum, you have your assessment platform,
10:44
and they're all somewhat separate and they all
10:46
don't talk to each other. Like how could we build
10:48
something that sits on top of all of those workflows
10:51
so that you can create something with Brist,
10:53
you can, you know, to your point, create a beautiful
10:56
presentation from a YouTube video. then you can
10:58
assign it to students using Boost, which is our
11:00
student -facing tool, and add an AI tutor. So
11:03
students who maybe can't access the language,
11:05
the vocabulary, can get definitions directly
11:08
embedded within that presentation. And then the
11:11
teacher could potentially assign an activity
11:14
and give feedback, targeted feedback is a teacher
11:16
favorite, to be able to get that feedback. And
11:19
that feedback then can power what we call Next,
11:22
which is our is our intelligence solution that
11:25
takes everything that you're doing with brisk
11:27
and recommends high quality next steps for specific
11:30
students. And so in some ways what we've tried
11:32
to do is develop. this like instructional cycle
11:35
and what we're seeing is that teachers are gravitating
11:37
to these individual steps across the instructional
11:40
cycle but the real power user, the real folks
11:43
who know what they're doing are not just using
11:45
it for this one step but thinking about how that
11:47
one step flows into the next step and that's
11:49
the really interesting part of brisk that fundamentally
11:52
we're going to be investing in which isn't just
11:54
that discrete, I'm using AI to take this one
11:57
instructional maneuver, such as creating that
11:59
presentation. But I'm going to create that presentation.
12:02
But now I'm actually going to create three variations
12:04
for my multilingual learner students who can't
12:08
engage with this content directly. I'm going
12:10
to also create an AI tutor that can go on the
12:14
side with it for students who need additional
12:16
support. And I'm going to create an extension
12:18
activity for students who understand this content
12:22
and need an additional challenge. And so that's
12:24
really what I'm excited about going forward is
12:26
not just this mindset where I'm going to go to
12:29
Chad GPT or another platform for this one discrete
12:32
task, but the entire ecosystem and workflow that
12:35
comes about when you can combine student data,
12:39
curriculum, and a teacher who's really passionate
12:42
about being able to provide the best learning
12:45
experience for every student in the classroom.
12:47
Yeah, and one of the things that you mentioned
12:49
there too was just the like the data privacy
12:54
and so is there one because one of the things
12:57
that we Run into with with schools obviously
13:00
and and working with them and do professional
13:02
development is we always have to be careful about
13:05
What tools we recommend because of because of
13:08
data privacy and things like that. Can you speak
13:11
a little bit on? teacher classroom use and schools
13:17
that are, or maybe even teachers that are, that
13:20
are wondering like, well, I really like this
13:23
tool, but I don't know if I can use it or is
13:25
there anything you can speak on as far as privacy
13:27
policies and things like that? Yeah. Data privacy
13:30
is so, so important. And this goes back to my
13:32
time working in the white house where, you know,
13:34
this was in the mid 2010s when there was a lot,
13:37
it felt like the wild west of ed tech and teachers
13:39
were trying a lot of tools. And I think experimentation
13:42
and innovation are so important. That's actually
13:44
why educators find brisk is because they like
13:46
find it on TikTok or find it on somewhere else.
13:49
And so I think that's really important, but it's
13:51
important to combine that with really strong
13:53
data privacy protections. And so Brisk is the
13:56
number one AI tool rated by common sense. We
13:59
have a 93 % score because we've gone above and
14:02
beyond some of other some other best practices.
14:05
One thing that I think is really important that
14:07
folks don't talk about enough is what is like
14:09
the standard data privacy asks that we ask any
14:12
ed tech vendor and what is unique about this
14:14
age of AI that requires additional guardrails
14:16
or supports. One thing that we at Brisk feel
14:19
really strongly about is that when we are processing
14:22
student data, we actually don't send data to
14:26
student data to Anthropic or to Google or to
14:30
open AI because in some ways we think that they're
14:33
the large model. providers, and so in some ways
14:35
they could use that data to train the next version
14:37
of GPT -6, for example. And so what we've done
14:40
is we've taken an additional step, and this is
14:42
why I think we're perceived as probably the most
14:45
secure AI platform in the K -12 space, is we
14:48
actually host these large language models on
14:50
our own servers. And so what that allows us to
14:53
do is almost provide this additional firewall
14:55
guarantee around being able to process student
14:58
data. And so that's been a big differentiator
15:00
for Brisk versus other products, is that we really
15:03
made that additional commitment and honestly
15:05
challenge of hosting large language models on
15:07
our own servers to prevent, you know, that data
15:10
getting back to OpenAI and that student data
15:12
being used to train the next version of GPT -6,
15:16
for example. Hopefully that was not too wonky
15:21
and technical, but we definitely do take data
15:24
privacy seriously and we've also signed, I think,
15:27
a DPA with almost every state in the country
15:30
and so happy to follow up if anyone has any questions
15:32
on that front. Yeah, and just to mention too,
15:35
that's really great because one of the things
15:38
that we do, and I work for a service organization,
15:41
so we work with a bunch of schools, but we work
15:44
on getting DPAs from companies so that we can
15:48
say to this teacher or this school, yes, go ahead
15:51
and use that because you're all set there and
15:54
we know that you can safely use this. So that's
15:56
really great. Cool. And I know another thing
16:00
that schools, especially schools around us that
16:03
we encounter all the time are are working towards,
16:06
you know, AI guidance or AI usage policies if
16:12
they depending on the direction that they're
16:14
going. But do you think the teachers need to
16:17
wait until they have their school has a perfect
16:19
policy in place before they begin their innovation?
16:21
before they begin using generative AI, whether
16:25
it be chat GPT or Gemini, or whether it be brisk
16:29
boost or anything like that, or do you think
16:32
that they should feel somewhat empowered to try
16:37
to find those paths that will help increase their
16:40
student learning or improve their practice in
16:43
their instruction? I think that's a really actually
16:47
good and tough question. I think ultimately it's
16:52
important for teachers to be transparent with
16:54
their district leaders and school leaders about
16:56
the tools that they're using and to check in
16:58
with them to understand what comfort level the
17:01
school or district has with their trying new
17:05
tools. I think one thing that I sometimes worry
17:07
about, about AI policies and guidance is that
17:11
often they can be, they can focus on what can
17:14
go wrong versus what can go right. And ultimately,
17:17
you know, the reason why you would adopt a tool
17:21
like Brisk is because you are doing this for
17:23
the benefit of your students, right? And how
17:26
can you actually answer the why without trying
17:29
out these products in the first place? And so
17:31
sometimes we work with districts where the AI
17:35
policy has been crafted in a way where these
17:38
are the 19 ways in which you should not use AI.
17:41
Which is fine. I think that's actually an important
17:43
conversation. But if it's not paired paired with
17:46
the why the guidance around how this is how you
17:49
should be using AI with your curriculum so you
17:52
can provide additional differentiants and supports.
17:54
So this is how we can actually drive outcomes
17:56
for them. And this is how we can actually think
17:58
about being able to lift up access and thoughtfulness
18:03
in the classroom. It can feel like their teachers
18:06
are. you know, are trained on what they can't
18:09
do, but not what they should do. And I think
18:11
that's something that if you don't also pair
18:14
these conversations with teachers who are already
18:17
using these tools and are already able to provide
18:20
a compelling reason for like, hey, I know, you
18:23
know, there's a lot of, you know, a lot of energy
18:25
being spent on students using AI to cheat, but
18:28
hey, look at this really cool AI character chat
18:31
that I created about Napoleon because we're going
18:34
through the you know our French unit and my students
18:37
are able to engage with something and even that
18:39
student who was super disengaged in class is
18:43
now excited to be able to talk to Napoleon about
18:46
something very specific. That is like a level
18:49
that you just need to have it exist in the classroom
18:53
in order to provide that reason for why it's
18:54
important and sometimes that experimentation
18:57
piece you know, isn't captured as parts of school
19:01
and district conversations around guidance and
19:03
policy. And so I would say it's, of course, important
19:06
for you to really check in with your school and
19:08
district, but to also not let to if there is
19:12
space to be able to experiment, to be able to
19:14
try these tools yourselves, because there's these
19:17
pockets of brilliance. And I think the district
19:19
and school is responsible for scaling those pockets
19:21
of brilliance in some ways. But they need to
19:24
exist in the first place to do that. Right so
19:26
along with the non exemplar they need to see
19:29
the exemplar and they need to see how they can
19:31
like you said scale that To really lead to some
19:35
innovative breath best practices and stuff. I
19:38
think that's I think that's really cool I think
19:39
that's a that's an important point to make but
19:42
you know, I think still part of this here is
19:46
We've seen a lot of what AI can do. I think at
19:49
the surface level. What can AI do generative
19:53
AI do to help? I want to really kind of hit and
19:57
how can we take it to that next level? How can
20:00
we be more creative? How can we be more innovative?
20:04
How can we amp up the engagement that our students
20:09
are experiencing or personalizing their assignments?
20:13
And I think partnered with that kind of question
20:16
is what role does brisk play in helping get teachers
20:20
to those points? Yeah, I come back to the instructional
20:25
cycle and not just thinking about AI as an individual
20:28
task, but a partner that can help you be a better
20:34
educator. And so I'll use the example of one
20:37
of the tools that educators love about Brisk
20:39
as a feedback tool, especially the targeted feedback
20:42
tool. I'm happy to share my screen and show you
20:45
all what that looks like. But that next step
20:49
of, OK, I've delivered high quality feedback
20:51
to my class. Often when you're giving feedback
20:54
to students, it's not just about providing a
20:57
score or grade, but it's also to think about
20:59
how your next lesson will reflect some of the
21:02
learnings and misconceptions that you've seen
21:04
your students go through in this assignment.
21:06
And that's really where AI can support because
21:09
often as an educator, you don't have the capacity
21:12
or space to spend 30 minutes reflecting on what
21:17
you just saw to be able to create you know, adapt
21:20
your instruction for the next day, let alone
21:22
actually adapt that instruction in the next day.
21:24
And that's where AI can help. And so not just
21:27
thinking about these discrete tasks, but the
21:29
tasks in relationship with each other is something
21:32
that AI can be really capable of. And so as an
21:35
example, we roll that, you know, feedback has
21:37
been a really powerful tool for brisk. But then
21:39
we also rolled out something called next recommendations,
21:42
which take that context about what your class
21:44
is struggling on and actually creates additional
21:47
resources for students. And that's an example
21:49
of something that really is the unlock for what
21:53
I think. is the most important part, which is
21:56
why K -12 solutions need to exist in this space.
21:59
I'm really excited that chat GPT, OpenAI announced
22:02
chat GPT for teachers. We're really excited about
22:05
what Google is doing in this space. But ultimately,
22:08
when you think about why it's important to have
22:10
K -12 specific vendors here is that you can build
22:13
that connectivity within your tool. So you're
22:15
nudging educators to think about that next step
22:18
and how all of the actions that they're taking
22:21
are kind of can add up to something more than
22:23
the sum of the parts. Yeah, and I think I really
22:27
appreciate what you said about especially the
22:29
feedback and what brisk does to help elevate.
22:33
a lot of that formative feedback that students
22:35
I think really need. And I think back to when
22:37
I was in the classroom and I was assigning papers
22:40
for my students to write, you know, like I was
22:43
in the social studies. So it was, you know, I
22:46
want you to write this paper on a particular
22:49
civil liberty and Supreme Court cases that go
22:53
along with it. And I would assign it. I would
22:56
give students a couple of days to research and
22:58
to work on it. I wouldn't see that paper until
23:01
the date that it was due, until it was turned
23:04
in. And I think about, man, how much time did
23:08
I spend looking at those papers and just somewhat
23:11
disgusted in the responses that some students
23:15
gave and really enthralled by some of the fascinating
23:19
things that others discussed. I didn't have a
23:23
role in helping to provide that feedback and
23:25
some of it I think definitely goes back into
23:27
the time constraints that I was faced with and
23:30
you know I'm teaching that class plus five or
23:32
six more and then the sheer number of students
23:35
that were creating these papers and so I don't
23:38
know if you do feel like sharing a little bit
23:42
of how that feedback tool works within the brisk
23:45
platform to maybe give people an idea of what
23:49
Jeremy could have done better when he was a teacher.
23:52
No, I'm sure you did a great job and I think
23:54
really it's not about whether, you know, it's
23:57
about aspects like the timeliness where it just
23:59
like wouldn't be feasible for an individual educator
24:02
to grade 80. It sounds like you were in high
24:05
school educator. Yep. You know, maybe you had
24:08
a hundred students to grade an assignment. There's
24:12
literally no way you could deliver all that feedback
24:14
in one day. The timeliness of feedback is often
24:18
correlated with outcomes more than any other
24:21
instructional intervention, because if a student
24:23
gets that feedback at the right point, then they
24:26
can actually internalize the feedback and actually
24:28
revise or even reflect on what they were expecting.
24:31
Whereas if it's going to land two weeks later,
24:34
the instructional impact of that feedback, unfortunately,
24:37
is like almost Like, it's really marginal at
24:40
that point because the student doesn't even remember
24:43
kind of what they were thinking about when they
24:45
wrote it. It often feels, even for me, if I wrote
24:47
something two weeks ago, I'm like, who was the
24:49
person that wrote this? I was a different person.
24:52
And so it's like really important that AI is
24:55
not seen as a replacement, but almost an augmenter
24:58
of the educator of like, I provide feedback on
25:01
the rough draft of this social studies paper
25:04
because that, you know, I just didn't have enough
25:06
time, but this feedback is now, happening and
25:08
it wouldn't have existed otherwise and so I'm
25:11
still going to understand and grade the final
25:13
assessment but you know I have to give my students
25:16
more opportunities. So I'll quickly, we'll see
25:21
if I can share my screen and we can do that.
25:26
So let me see. Hopefully this works. So if this
25:30
works, I have this Google Doc open. Brisk works
25:34
wherever you work. So this is in a Google Doc.
25:36
But if it was an image, if it was in Microsoft
25:39
Word, if it was a slide presentation or a PDF,
25:44
all of those things would work. But I'm just
25:46
going to show you the Google Doc version. So
25:49
we have a couple of different feedback styles
25:51
in Brisk. We have batch feedback, which allows
25:54
you to, as I kind of mentioned, access our platform
25:57
and upload potential. Yeah, go ahead. Would you
25:59
want to zoom in a little bit more? Oh, yeah,
26:01
sure. So we have feedback. We have targeted feedback.
26:06
We have glows and grows. We have rubric criteria
26:08
and next steps. I'm going to use the targeted
26:11
feedback. I've actually already uploaded a rubric,
26:14
so you can see that here. And we can set the
26:17
grade level too. I'm just going to set that in
26:20
eighth grade. We can also add additional focus,
26:24
and I'm going to brisk it. And what it's going
26:26
to do is it's actually going to read the assignment
26:28
and draft feedback directly in the Google .comments.
26:30
Now, this is one of our most popular features
26:32
because it's directly embedded within the workflow
26:35
of you as an educator. It's left in draft mode,
26:37
so you as an educator can go in and edit the
26:41
comments once it's complete. So for example,
26:45
your conclusion restates your opinion. Clearly,
26:48
however, it could be stronger by adding a call
26:50
to action that tells readers what they should
26:51
do and or think about because of your argument.
26:55
And so as an educator, I can go and modify it.
26:58
Maybe I don't like this example, but I want to
27:00
leave the feedback. I press comment and it's
27:02
directly shared with my students as well. And
27:05
so as you can imagine, this probably would have
27:07
taken me five minutes just to read myself and
27:10
then to go and give feedback, probably another
27:12
five minutes. And this is streamline this process.
27:15
Again, I'm not going to. leave feedback that
27:17
I disagree with, but it provides a first pass
27:20
for me to be able to take those next steps. Now,
27:23
I'm going to share just what happens next. So
27:26
if I take this and I say, I actually want to
27:30
get some recommendations based on the recent
27:33
work that I'm doing, I'm just going to share
27:35
this tab as well. You can see that I'm getting
27:40
recommendations based on students needing additional
27:43
support and recognizing textual clues based on
27:47
that feedback that I'm giving right here. And
27:49
so that's just an example of that connectivity
27:51
where we're taking these data insights and using
27:53
them as inputs to next step recommendations as
27:59
well. Yeah, I think that's great. does that really
28:04
hit the timeliness of it, right? And the student
28:06
can take those, they can make their improvements.
28:08
They can even look at them even before the teacher
28:11
gets to them some of the times if they're using
28:14
it on the boo side, isn't that correct? I think.
28:19
Precisely, yeah. And then they can choose to
28:22
either ignore them or to incorporate them, right?
28:26
Exactly, it's all a collaborative process so
28:29
that. you can basically give feedback and the
28:31
student can engage with it. We also have a student
28:34
facing extension that our district partners have
28:36
access to, which allows them to get a very similar
28:39
experience where they can request feedback on
28:41
their assignments and kind of piece together
28:44
whether they agree or disagree. And that's part
28:46
of that. I think you mentioned the boost student
28:49
extension as well. I'm happy to share a little
28:53
bit more about some of the other things that
28:54
we've got going, some things that we'll be releasing
28:56
soon, but up to you about what we Cover next.
29:01
Armon, the next thing that I was going to talk
29:03
with you a little bit further about is specifically
29:08
the classroom and more about teacher use. And
29:11
one of the things that Brisk does is they do
29:15
an innovator webinar series. Can you talk a little
29:18
bit about how that got started and what the goals
29:22
are behind that? Absolutely. So we have a webinar
29:26
series, as you mentioned, the Brisk Innovator
29:28
webinar series, and really it's just a space
29:30
for some of the folks that we work with to be
29:32
able to showcase the amazing work that we're
29:34
doing. I think often what I don't like about
29:37
EdTech is that EdTech can often center the product
29:41
and not the folks who really help support and
29:45
champion and do amazing work with our product.
29:48
And so the Brisk Innovators series is really
29:50
intended to put a spotlight on some of the folks
29:53
that we're in community with that are doing amazing
29:55
work. And so we'd love to have you on at some
29:58
point to basically be able to highlight the amazing
30:01
work that you all are doing. But it's really
30:02
just, it's an opportunity since we do have a
30:06
megaphone to be able to highlight folks who are
30:07
doing interesting, thoughtful work that is deserving
30:11
of being highlighted. Great and then one of the
30:16
things that Through that series is because of
30:20
those examples you see a lot of interesting things
30:23
Is there anything that surprised you or maybe
30:25
even? sparked like a new idea with your team
30:28
that maybe you hadn't thought of at the beginning
30:31
of brisk and That led to something being released
30:35
as part of this. I think the interesting thing
30:38
that I've gotten away from these series the series
30:41
is that We often use, you know, folks, you know,
30:43
we have, we're having someone on from Maryland,
30:46
Prince George's County, I think next week, and
30:49
prior had Phil Heinz from, you know, Niles Township
30:52
in Illinois, and people will use different language,
30:56
but they're articulating very similar themes.
30:58
And I think that's been really helpful for us
31:01
as developers because people will converge on
31:05
themes that we can actually go and address. And
31:07
I think it's about being able to really listen,
31:10
not just for maybe the request or the high level
31:14
ask, but like, what is the thing that's driving
31:16
it? And often those drivers of what are going
31:20
on in different classrooms, even from a small,
31:23
wealthy, suburban school district to a large
31:26
urban district, they sound like different. districts,
31:30
but in some ways there's like some fundamentals
31:32
of teaching that remain challenging regardless.
31:35
And so we've been able to lock in on a couple
31:37
of features and things that we've done as a result
31:40
of kind of really listening to our community.
31:44
Great. And I really appreciate that too, just
31:47
because, you know, there are so many times where
31:50
teachers will go to a professional development
31:52
and be learning about something and they didn't
31:56
know that, you know, their colleague just down
31:58
the hall is already using a tool for some specific
32:01
purpose that they could benefit from. So that
32:04
that type of thing is really is great and unique
32:07
and provides some of those opportunities for
32:10
connection. I would say opens up even further
32:13
because if you have someone in your same school,
32:16
you could maybe learn something from. But then
32:18
also those that are completely outside of your
32:21
your district, your state, et cetera, your country.
32:24
Right. There's so many things that you could
32:25
pull from that. So The last question part of
32:30
this that I wanted to ask you with Brisk is just
32:35
on the community behind it. So this kind of ties
32:38
to the previous question with the Innovator series,
32:41
but as you've spent time over the last couple
32:46
of years improving and modifying Brisk, how has...
32:50
all the community feedback that you get and the
32:53
conversations that you have shaped the product
32:55
direction for how teachers are using it and maybe
32:58
even looking a little bit into, if you can, like
33:02
what you have coming forward that maybe hasn't
33:05
been released yet or how has that shaped you
33:09
and what will that look like in the future as
33:11
you continue to mold the platform? You know,
33:14
it's so interesting when, you know, I'm not a
33:16
former classroom teacher and so that's something
33:18
that I take as part of my identity working with
33:25
schools and districts, which is I come as an
33:27
outsider. And so I think that's really important
33:29
for, it brings a lot of humility, but I think
33:33
also it means that the specific phrase means
33:37
so much to me. And it goes, have you thought
33:39
about this? And often we haven't thought about
33:42
that thing. Our community, that is my favorite
33:45
thing to hear from a community member because
33:48
Often, you know, we will be thinking really hard
33:52
about a specific problem that we've heard articulated
33:55
and we'll design something and it turns out we
33:57
haven't really thought about this other thing.
33:59
And so we really, really lean on our community
34:02
to be able to help point us and understand because
34:04
we have a lot over half of brisk as former educators,
34:08
but there. a point at which we don't have enough
34:11
perspective that is helpful and informative,
34:14
because every classroom looks a little bit different
34:16
and is representative of a different type of
34:18
classroom. And so we really engage with our community
34:21
weekly, daily to be able to understand not just
34:25
what we should be building, but how we should
34:27
be doing it as well. And so we've been fortunate
34:29
enough to be able to roll out some of our biggest
34:31
features over the last year or two to our community
34:34
first to be able to get. feedback and advice.
34:37
We have a couple of different forms of community.
34:40
We have a Facebook group, but we also have Club
34:42
Brisk, which is our ambassador community of several
34:46
hundred really engaged brisk users that if you
34:51
all aren't part of, hopefully I'll be able to
34:53
get you all in. And we really like to engage
34:56
with them and provide sneak peeks. We'll be releasing
34:59
a fairly significant Focus for brisk in the next
35:04
couple of weeks that we are about to announce
35:06
to our community And so that's a great example
35:09
of like we all we will be sharing a couple of
35:12
weeks ahead of a general Announcement with the
35:15
community because we want to hear things like
35:17
have you thought about this. We actually this
35:19
word You think it means this, but it actually
35:22
means that, or it can mean this other thing in
35:25
California. So maybe don't use that word, but
35:28
use it in New York. And I think there's so much
35:31
specifics that I think is really important that
35:33
our community can really help us answer. And
35:35
so we're definitely very grateful for them. And
35:38
we try to cherish them with many things, including
35:41
a lot of swag. Yeah, and and I think you know
35:47
you touched on here some of the things that brisk
35:50
has coming forward here But you know if you're
35:52
a teacher What can you be doing right now? To
35:57
kind of like stay ahead of some of the developer
36:00
if you can't stay ahead or at least to keep pace
36:03
with developments that are taking place within
36:06
within the AI and education sphere I Think it's
36:11
really hard to keep up to pace like honestly.
36:13
I'm the CEO of an education. Yeah and I'm like
36:16
what they did what now and that was two weeks
36:18
ago and it's just like it's too much like it's
36:21
just like if you are it's a full -time job it's
36:23
more than a full -time job to keep up with what's
36:25
going on and so honestly my hot take is there's
36:30
like certain foundational skills that I think
36:32
it's worthwhile for teachers to kind of invest
36:35
in and to feel strong in but you know I'm you
36:39
know as someone in this might hurt brisk in some
36:41
ways. But if you have something that's working
36:42
in the classroom, keep at it. And if there's
36:45
going to be a big step improvement, you'll hear
36:48
about it eventually. I think this idea that an
36:51
educator needs to be completely locked in on
36:54
X and LinkedIn and all these other places to
36:57
be able to follow what's going on with education
36:59
and AI, I think that it can just feel really
37:02
overwhelming. And so I'm of the mindset, which
37:06
is kind of not normally what ed tech founders
37:10
and folks do, which is like, I think you have
37:13
to walk so that you can run. And if, if you keep
37:15
jumping between tool to tool, I can only imagine
37:18
how hard it is for your students as well. So
37:21
they have to like learn all of these new platforms
37:23
that are getting released and getting updated.
37:26
And so, you know, at the end of the day, we're
37:30
three years into chat GPT being released. A lot
37:32
of this will stabilize. There will be platforms
37:34
that can solve real like we'll solve the problems
37:38
for a specific educator and you'll be able to
37:41
kind of like incorporate that into practice in
37:43
an intentional way. But my hope is that it doesn't
37:48
remain this very hard to follow space and it
37:52
becomes a little bit more sensible. But I'm not
37:55
sure if my entire team would be happy that I
37:57
said that, but it's definitely what I can't keep
37:59
up. So I'm like, I can't imagine an educator
38:01
who has so many students and a bunch of other
38:04
more urgent and pressing problems and AI needs
38:08
to really always be focused in on that. But good
38:12
teaching is good teaching, right? 100%. Whether
38:15
you use technology or whether you use old fashioned.
38:19
what we might consider more old fashioned sort
38:21
of methods. And so some of those things, I think,
38:24
no matter how good AI gets, aren't going to change.
38:28
You're still going to need a teacher with that
38:31
student to build that caring, supportive relationship
38:36
that can help to foster their own learning. Couldn't
38:40
have said it better. You know, I think Armand,
38:42
I really appreciate the time that you've given
38:44
us here, but we've got one more segment that
38:46
we want to get into here with the time that we
38:48
have remaining. And David and I, we call it our
38:51
lightning round. So it's a series of questions.
38:55
Maybe you've had a chance to look at them ahead
38:56
of time or not. It's up to you. But, you know,
39:00
they can be short, one word answers, or if it
39:03
leads to something that it sparks a more meaningful
39:06
response, you know, feel free to elaborate as
39:09
much as you need to. to here. And so I think
39:11
David, you want to kick it off with the first
39:13
question that we have if we're ready? Yeah, yep.
39:18
So the first one is if you could give educators
39:20
permission to do one thing differently with AI
39:23
this year, what would it be? I would say stop
39:29
asking for permission if that's OK with your
39:32
school district in some ways. I think you really
39:37
have to get into these tools and try them out.
39:39
And so Even starting small I think is really
39:42
important. So my thought is stop asking for permission
39:46
if that's okay. Yeah, oh absolutely. How about,
39:52
you know, let's get it away from the tech. What's
39:54
one analog thing that in your life you still
39:57
can't give up? Yeah, I can't give up my like
40:00
my notepad. Oh, you can't see it but my I am
40:03
always constantly writing physical notes I think
40:05
that's how I remember things and I tried to I
40:10
tried digital notes and things like that and
40:11
typing things up but like I always just write
40:14
a Couple of phrases that I'm trying to interpret
40:16
much later on and I'm like, what did why did
40:18
I write that? And so I think Yeah, exactly. My
40:21
little post -it notes. I'm convinced that we
40:24
haven't evolved to internalize typing in the
40:27
same way that we do physical notes. And so that's
40:30
definitely something. What's one AI use in education
40:36
right now that feels way more powerful than people
40:38
realize? I think AI feedback is one of those
40:44
things that we find that if an educator picks
40:47
up really into their workflow. So I'm saying
40:50
maybe one in 10 brisk users really do this. They're
40:54
using it 100 times, 200 times a month. It's like
40:58
this insane curve of just a teacher who really
41:02
finds their fit. Because what it does is it changes
41:05
actual practice. It's actually changing. Teachers
41:12
will have their students have a small groups
41:17
and they'll all be generating feedback on each
41:19
other and then self critiquing that feedback
41:21
and reflecting on it and and I think that's just
41:23
something where you're starting to see practice
41:25
actually shift where students are asking for
41:28
feed like brisk feedback and so um I think there's
41:32
obviously time savings benefits that were the
41:34
first reasons why teachers found it valuable
41:37
now they're seeing it as like a a driver of outcomes
41:40
because of the timeliness and that like students
41:42
actually are responsive When they're seeing this
41:46
feedback agenda get generated right in front
41:48
of their eyes, so that's definitely something
41:49
that I would highlight Well, so you've you've
41:53
said that you don't have a classroom experience
41:56
Or experience as a classroom teacher, but I tell
42:00
you what after listening to you you definitely
42:02
talk the talk You've got the right vocabulary
42:05
down you speak the the right things But now I
42:09
want you to walk the walk. I want you to pretend
42:11
put yourself in the place if you could be a substitute
42:14
teacher for one day in a classroom, what grade,
42:19
what subject, perhaps even like what lesson would
42:21
you be all stoked to give to your students and
42:25
have them walking away thinking Armand was the
42:28
best teacher they've ever had? So first of all,
42:31
would not have that impact. That's why I'm not
42:32
okay. I think you're short selling yourself.
42:36
I would definitely know what you all have done
42:39
and what classroom teachers do. um is truly like
42:43
I I don't have the patience or the ability to
42:46
um be engaging for even a 45 minute period but
42:51
um I think probably a high school civics teacher
42:54
like I just like really like government and politics
42:57
and policy and I think um often I find that students
43:02
I think the reason why it would be meaningful
43:04
for me is I think a lot of folks more broadly
43:07
feel so disenfranchised. And I think if you can
43:10
imbue a high schooler with a sense of purpose
43:14
in their broader government, that that can make
43:17
them feel seen in a way that I think we don't
43:20
have other organs within our public education
43:23
system to really facilitate in that specific
43:25
way of how does my existence operate within this
43:29
broader macro structure. And so that's definitely
43:32
something I would want to teach. With respect
43:35
to a specific lesson, I think revolutions and
43:45
just generally, I don't know if that's even a
43:47
civics lesson, I am now trying to go back to
43:50
my own high school, but ways in which direct
43:53
democracy kind of influence, have influenced
43:57
systematic change in both the US and internationally,
44:00
I think would be interesting. Sure. All right,
44:06
so this is the last question and this one is
44:10
it let's say you're about to go present in to
44:14
a room full of educators on brisk and Yeah, you're
44:18
about to come out and you have your your one
44:20
walk -up song your thing That's gonna get you
44:23
pumped up before you start speaking. What's what's
44:26
your walk -up song? You know, it's funny It was
44:30
this but I am during spring Q which is a conference
44:33
in California last year. I had the chance to
44:36
Do the keynote I like as part of the keynote
44:38
the intro to the keynote and they like had bad
44:41
bunny Go and I would never have said bad bunny
44:43
But it really worked and I got pumped because
44:46
of it. So I would do that. I would do that again
44:49
Nice. Well, perfect Armand Before we do let you
44:53
go here, we like to offer people a chance to
44:56
share any upcoming things that you have going
44:59
on, whether it's an event, whether you want to
45:02
promote another release, whatever that happens
45:05
to be, or how can people reach out to learn more
45:09
about brisk, and we can definitely include any
45:11
of those links in our show description as well.
45:15
I'm trying to think about the best thing. Part
45:17
of me wants to like spoil all of our news and
45:20
show you all of the things we're about to launch
45:21
that I'm excited about. I think the best thing
45:27
that you can do is definitely follow us on our
45:30
social media accounts. That's the best way to
45:32
hear about us. If you haven't heard about Brisk,
45:35
please, you know, try it out. We also, I think
45:39
ultimately this moment is really complicated
45:43
and scary and There's, as we kind of talked about,
45:46
so many things going on to keep up with. What
45:49
we try to pride ourselves at risk of doing is
45:52
not starting with the product. We really start,
45:55
you know, if you are a school district leader
45:57
or if you're a school district leader and you
46:00
are just like, you have questions about AI, you
46:03
want to think about is now the right time to
46:06
buy an AI platform for my school district. Now,
46:11
A lot of folks would want to sell you a product,
46:13
but we really, and it starts with me, we'll just
46:16
talk to you about what's going on, and we try
46:18
to be consultative partners, because at the end
46:20
of the day, we want you to pick the thing that's
46:23
best for you, and I think that means taking into
46:25
account where you are at on your AI policy and
46:28
guidance, and if now's not the right time, we're
46:30
happy to connect you with a bunch of school districts
46:32
who are maybe a little bit farther along that
46:35
can kind of talk to you about their process,
46:37
because ultimately, we get to have these conversations
46:40
every day 24 -7. And we're here to be able to
46:44
help support you all because we think if we can
46:46
help guide you along that journey, even if it
46:48
doesn't have to do with buying risk, that's a
46:52
value that we can offer. And so please reach
46:55
out if we could all be helpful as you kind of
46:58
embark on this journey of AI in schools because
47:01
it's going to be definitely a part of our future
47:04
and it's not going away. Well, perfect. I think
47:07
that's a great place to leave it. Really appreciate
47:10
it again for your time here today, Armon, and
47:13
we look forward to seeing those things that Brisk
47:16
is going to be releasing here in 2026. Cool.
47:19
See you soon. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks,
47:21
Armon. Thanks for listening to Integrate This.
47:26
Want to take your learning further? Head over
47:28
to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials, deep
47:31
dives, and more EdTech tips you can use right
47:34
away. Don't forget to subscribe and catch new
47:37
podcast episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify,
47:42
or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next
47:44
time, keep exploring, keep innovating, and keep
47:48
integrating this.