Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of Shada

Transcript

Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of Shada · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:01
  Welcome back to happen to have a blunt.
• 0:03
  Penknife the Doctor Who Coventry podcast back by popular demand.
• 0:08
  And I'm going to say that because I've seen the numbers
• 0:10
  who listened mr. Robert Valentine say hello.
• 0:14
  Hello. I was going to come back anyway,
• 0:16
  so it's very hi everybody. I'm very well thanks.
• 0:22
  It's a Friday evening and we're talking about Sharda which is
• 0:26
  better than working. So yeah, it's good.
• 0:30
  Yeah. Yeah, it's lovely to be here.
• 0:32
  Drop the story straight away. Thank you very much.
• 0:34
  That's all I did. Sorry, yes I'm doing sure.
• 0:37
  The folks we're doing Sharda marvelous, well I got a question
• 0:41
  for you before you do anything and that is how many versions of
• 0:44
  Sharda have. You seen watched heard read?
• 0:49
  I have seen the one we're about to watch, which is the most
• 0:54
  recent anime T1 that begins with Toby, hey Duke giving that we
• 0:59
  the little BBC ident I have listened to the full big finish
• 1:04
  version many times. I've also watched the the
• 1:09
  animated shorter big finish version on the BBC website many
• 1:15
  times back Saturday as well Mash animation.
• 1:18
  Yeah, that's right. The Flash animation version.
• 1:19
  Yeah. Which I which I adored.
• 1:21
  I loved it. Quiet.
• 1:22
  And I've also listened to the lalla ward, red audiobook
• 1:27
  version of Chaudhary as well. What are the original the novel
• 1:33
  by Gareth Roberts. The novel by Kathryn B, which
• 1:35
  is, which is very, very good. I spent a whole chapter, you
• 1:39
  know, I was told off because I wasn't too rude, last time, but
• 1:42
  I came on this thing with you. So I'm going to be rude straight
• 1:45
  away. Here is a whole chapter from the
• 1:47
  point of view of the fella in the car.
• 1:49
  That's kagrenac the clothes from.
• 1:52
  Yeah, it's so funny. We can talk about that when we
• 1:55
  get to the bit in the show. So I kind of think that because
• 1:59
  this is she Order and there is no definitive version of Sharda.
• 2:03
  Chaudhary is like this Venn diagram idea the overlaps in the
• 2:08
  middle but even then there isn't really one.
• 2:11
  So I think it would be wrong of us, not to discuss the totality
• 2:16
  of Sharda as we go through this. Because how else can one
• 2:19
  possibly discuss it like a Multiverse of Charlotte?
• 2:21
  There's no definitive version is.
• 2:23
  I mean, I kind of consider the this animated version the
• 2:27
  definitive version, as kind of finished.
• 2:29
  It's the original actors. It's got a very nice animation,
• 2:35
  plugging a lot of the gaps but any one of the versions, the
• 2:39
  book, The Big finish version that could be your shoulder
• 2:42
  couldn't. Yeah.
• 2:42
  And even even the fact that in the five doctors they reused
• 2:46
  footage from it of course which is that it within the show
• 2:51
  itself. It's kind of got not retconned,
• 2:55
  but messed around with that, you know it's a very it's a very
• 2:58
  Douglas Adams idea. So this is kind of like in some
• 3:01
  ways. This is the ultimate, this is
• 3:02
  the ultimate, Douglas Adams Doctor, Who for that reason and
• 3:06
  an old, we should also probably discuss as we go along as well
• 3:08
  at different points. Dirk gently's holistic detective
• 3:12
  agency, and city of death because they all overlap in this
• 3:17
  huge. Big.
• 3:17
  This is going to be your Matrix, I can feel.
• 3:20
  Yeah, yeah. There's I'm glad it's a long one
• 3:23
  because there's a lot to talk about.
• 3:26
  Yeah. I remember when reading the
• 3:29
  book, There was on a train and there's a bit where the doctors
• 3:34
  talking about old high Gallifreyan swearing at one
• 3:38
  point, right? But he doesn't swear I don't
• 3:40
  know. A massive plot with hits at the
• 3:42
  end of a chapter and it just goes it was just a load of like
• 3:46
  Time Lord symbols as a doctor basically saying I fuck like it
• 3:51
  I laughed my head off in the middle of this train.
• 3:53
  I mean that is an incredible book I think that and given the
• 3:58
  expectation that Yeah. From this uncomplete story.
• 4:03
  I think any version that succeeds.
• 4:06
  That's pretty fantastic. Yes.
• 4:07
  And there is more than one version of this which works
• 4:11
  completely 100% on its own terms and yeah.
• 4:16
  So yeah, it's yeah, sure. We shall, we head to Cambridge
• 4:20
  them? Well, I've got my cup of tea,
• 4:23
  I've got it. I've got some crumpets electric
• 4:26
  fire here, so wonderful. Let's, let's go via.
• 4:31
  Let's go by the cameras, go lets punch for a bit and then see
• 4:34
  where see where we end up. Now, I hate to disappoint you
• 4:36
  straight, right? From the very beginning.
• 4:38
  I've just realized on the brick box version that we're watching
• 4:41
  the Toby. Hey Dobe.
• 4:42
  It, isn't there some of the title music?
• 4:53
  I mean, it's obscene, that's just rude.
• 4:55
  That's rude. We should mention the Toby.
• 4:56
  Hey, Doc, ident though, because it's really Charming, yes.
• 5:00
  Yeah, probably. So I'm going to press play as
• 5:02
  one last thing I've got to say and that is I think I went into
• 5:08
  this version a little bit skeptical because have been so
• 5:10
  many now I'll just like, what, what are they going to do?
• 5:13
  That's new. Yeah, the opening sequence where
• 5:16
  I press play in a minute of the think tank station with the
• 5:21
  astonishing I think, is Marquez score but it's absolutely doing
• 5:27
  this kind of stuff that don't Dudley Simpson was doing at the
• 5:31
  time. I think this is a really
• 5:33
  enticing opening is one of my favorite openings for a doctor
• 5:36
  who story now? Yeah.
• 5:37
  The school. The model work, the whole lot,
• 5:40
  its glorious. Well let's go then shall we?
• 5:44
  All right, count as in live for so you can see I'm excited, 5,
• 5:50
  4, 3, 2 1. Let's go just as well.
• 5:56
  They don't actually like they could have made it very
• 5:59
  sophisticated. This model work, goodnight and
• 6:01
  CGI. And actually they make it
• 6:02
  authentic to the time that would have been wrong.
• 6:05
  The the job they've done is incredible.
• 6:07
  It's totally as it should be. Okay, strikes away.
• 6:13
  I want to ask you about pennant Roberts.
• 6:16
  Because he's not really a director that irate.
• 6:21
  And yet, I think he has done some really interesting.
• 6:23
  I think, I thought everything was extremely Brave to try and
• 6:26
  convince the director of BBC to make the power plant.
• 6:30
  And then to give it the stab that you did.
• 6:33
  I think his location working. This is absolutely gorgeous.
• 6:36
  He brought Louise Jameson into the show.
• 6:38
  Like he made a lot of sad because but he also directed
• 6:42
  worries of the deep and time Lash.
• 6:47
  Where's the question? My question is.
• 6:51
  This is what what do you think of panoramas as a director?
• 6:54
  I don't know. I must admit I'm not someone who
• 6:59
  any with in all honesty. Really pays too much attention
• 7:03
  to the direction of dogs who I really am.
• 7:07
  Yeah, it's not it's not Cinema. Is it come on?
• 7:10
  It's you know it's it's it's you know, they're they're yeah,
• 7:13
  they're better dress another directors but yeah, I Visual
• 7:18
  Focus. That is that the story story
• 7:20
  actor has measles sandwich, had partly partly Direction
• 7:23
  production design. I just yeah it's not stare, pay
• 7:27
  attention to in Doctor Who must admit.
• 7:32
  And that's that's so different from how I approached it.
• 7:35
  I find that very interesting. Oh yeah.
• 7:36
  It's you know I listen to you know fly through entirety and
• 7:39
  your show in a few other things and it's like I'm going on about
• 7:42
  Douglas Canfield and yeah yeah yeah.
• 7:45
  Bitching about certain directors and it's not, you know, starting
• 7:54
  about this introduction is that there's very little dialogue
• 7:57
  here is it? It tells a lot of it did.
• 7:59
  There's a lot going on in this. Okay. it's very, very visual,
• 8:03
  it's completely visual, you know, it's apart from some Roman
• 8:06
  numerals counting down, which is Fun is felt.
• 8:11
  Yeah, he's gonna grow Christopher name of Dracula,
• 8:18
  1972, ad and cold. It's and license to Kill.
• 8:24
  He has a very small part in that.
• 8:26
  I think you've been in a Star Trek as well, you know, at some
• 8:28
  point he has he has been Deep Space 9, I believe.
• 8:31
  But yeah, he's what well, it's one of British actors you went
• 8:34
  to America, but he sort of like, he's like, Julian, Glover's.
• 8:39
  Tia kid brother, you know to mean they've got easily and you
• 8:45
  know Julian Glover turned up earlier in the season.
• 8:47
  Yeah. He's got story about being stuck
• 8:50
  in a taxi taxi. In the driver was insistent that
• 8:53
  he'd been in something that he knew he got in, muddled up with
• 8:56
  Christopher name, but he was so intent.
• 8:57
  Can't imagine doing that. Were being kind of intimidated
• 9:00
  but he just thought Argentina. Yeah, that was me, that was me.
• 9:03
  But yeah, they look, he's, he looks an awful lot like Glover.
• 9:06
  They could be brothers. I think oh, I'm like I'm
• 9:15
  watching now. I'm leaving you watching the
• 9:16
  program. You're gonna have to throw
• 9:18
  something at me. Laughing.
• 9:19
  Well fine. Where are we?
• 9:21
  I have notes. I have notes.
• 9:23
  Oh. Yes.
• 9:46
  And in particular, its this version of this Oh okay.
• 9:51
  Okay. Yeah, I the funny thing is I
• 9:55
  love. I love this one.
• 9:56
  I think city of death when I watch them I always conclude the
• 10:00
  city of death is the better one but always are.
• 10:03
  But he sure is the one kind of has a life and best are two very
• 10:07
  different things. Aren't they though they are,
• 10:09
  they are exactly. But this one just has that this
• 10:12
  has a life outside of itself, somehow.
• 10:15
  I think it has like a such a Charming set of characters and
• 10:18
  characters. Am I in for a lot of dogs?
• 10:20
  To who I just really want to hang out with these people in
• 10:23
  this story. Yeah, the thing that this
• 10:26
  sensitive death, both do is see if death is past Paris.
• 10:29
  That's it. Secret weapon in some ways and
• 10:32
  this has Cambridge their two-story set around Earth, you
• 10:36
  know, real, sit real places, real beautiful cities.
• 10:42
  And it is captured beautifully as well but yes, it is a dream
• 10:46
  is, is it true then? Because you know, I know a
• 10:49
  little bit of trivia about the Baha'is of the scenes is that
• 10:52
  that was Adams wrote this at the 11th hour.
• 10:56
  And I said she's just knocked this out like very quickly and
• 11:00
  that he was dissatisfied with the scripts.
• 11:03
  Yeah, I think I've heard this is one of his what they cut I
• 11:07
  always was. I was Wonder though when writers
• 11:10
  talk about banging so I've written stuff in it.
• 11:12
  Take before, but I do know because some sometimes you've
• 11:17
  got ideas in the drawer. And sometimes when you have to
• 11:20
  write at speed, you pull those ideas out and a lot of the stuff
• 11:23
  that's in Sharda because obviously shot of got can.
• 11:26
  That's the, that's the reason that's that was the, that's the
• 11:29
  origin story of Sharda being so interesting.
• 11:31
  The fact it got to shut down. You can let reduction but but
• 11:36
  all those out, all those ideas were a lot of them.
• 11:38
  He recycles in Dirk gently's holistic, detective agency.
• 11:41
  So the Capra notice, this comes back in novel form slightly
• 11:45
  different. Cambridge way is where he was
• 11:49
  educated as well, isn't it? So yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:51
  He went crazy. Yes.
• 11:52
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, which I suppose you would
• 11:55
  do and if you arrive something in a hurry, you know, what do I
• 11:58
  do? Well, yeah, right went right.
• 12:00
  Well, you know, well but also I think part of it was based on
• 12:03
  the idea of Simply someone like dressed like scarecrow dresses
• 12:07
  shortly. Cambridge is he his argument was
• 12:10
  Cambridge or his thought was Cambridge?
• 12:12
  One of those places where no one would bat an eyelid, they just
• 12:15
  kind of let him get on with it. I think that was the dress up
• 12:19
  next all of it and Cambridge. So I do have plays as outrageous
• 12:24
  that good grief. I think the 70s does these
• 12:26
  studies and Library. So well, you're such a beautiful
• 12:29
  said this. And that's another thing, this
• 12:31
  this set the atmosphere the you know all the books is just
• 12:36
  gorgeous and that's another reason I love Sharda.
• 12:38
  It's you know you I want to hang out, incra notices rooms.
• 12:42
  Basically, you know it's one that is just one of those lovely
• 12:44
  Doctor Who environments and Chris Parsons in many ways is he
• 12:51
  is Douglas Adams. He's kind of if Douglas Adams is
• 12:55
  in this. That's that's his character.
• 12:59
  Die. So used to seeing Daniel Healing
• 13:01
  Way of God, you know, as that Dreadful Harvey Baines, do you
• 13:05
  ever watch it? I did.
• 13:07
  He was in a few sitcoms and I mean, he was a lot of Italy, but
• 13:15
  he's incredibly likable here. Yeah.
• 13:17
  Well, I do have to say, though, I've got nothing against Dennis.
• 13:20
  Carriers, could notice how calm I think they dropped a massive
• 13:24
  Ball by not having someone else. Yeah.
• 13:27
  Oh no. Pun intended.
• 13:29
  But yeah, it's so obviously imagine Graham crowden those
• 13:35
  crew. Notice the yeah, the guy who was
• 13:38
  going to be the fourth doctor honestly.
• 13:41
  Right now I can't imagine Graham crowd and turning up in a doctor
• 13:43
  who Adventure. Come on the wall?
• 13:45
  I know, I know. But yeah, just, you know, hey,
• 13:48
  stretch your imagination. But yeah, I kind of think it's
• 13:51
  just a huge error of casting judgment.
• 13:54
  It's just, it's just so obvious to me that.
• 13:56
  Yeah, we Harpy lady card. In this then one day.
• 14:00
  That's true. That's true that.
• 14:01
  Yeah, but it's me it's just seems like a weird no-brainer
• 14:04
  but they didn't go with it, but how delightful it was hard.
• 14:08
  This is just there in his study and it's not commented on at all
• 14:12
  aside from Chris. And that's one of the great kind
• 14:15
  of just narrative things in this that you know, the doctor and
• 14:19
  Ramana don't arrive, that they've arrived already.
• 14:22
  And so we have instant mystery of course in the in the big
• 14:26
  finish version crowd, this is played by James Fox.
• 14:29
  Ox who I think is brilliant in the role.
• 14:33
  You played Scag RA in the big finish version Manuel from.
• 14:38
  Yeah, it was, it was a very different before Bill Clinton so
• 14:42
  much. Thanks Jeffrey, Jeffrey, no G
• 14:45
  know. Oh, anyway my brain, my brain.
• 14:50
  Yeah, but it's comfortable. Come now, I have a lot to say
• 14:55
  about Jay. Antiques decision to
• 14:58
  essentially, write out this entire told his team, he wanted
• 15:01
  the dog gone. He wanted overly smart doctor
• 15:05
  and companion out. Oh, look at those.
• 15:08
  Yeah, I could not love on and symbol more than the three there
• 15:14
  in this. Yeah, it's Interesting though
• 15:16
  because I I think Jay Auntie got a lot of things desperately
• 15:23
  wrong, but in some stories I think he I think he's got a bit
• 15:26
  of a point about what was this? Bunch the doctor and Romana to.
• 15:31
  Yeah. In that they're really horrible
• 15:34
  to Chris and just they look down the neck because that because
• 15:38
  they're so Splendid a wonderful and clever and Brilliant.
• 15:41
  And and the rest, they go around treating everyone else in the
• 15:46
  Reverse like dirt. It's this it's a slight kind of
• 15:51
  Tenth Doctor and Rose series to Vibe almost.
• 15:55
  You know it's like that they have so much there so wrapped up
• 15:58
  in each other and everyone around them is kind of not yet.
• 16:02
  That's a generalization. But I think in this one, I think
• 16:16
  by the end of this one Chris has earned more respect.
• 16:18
  And he gets shall we say? Yeah, so I can pack.
• 16:23
  All I'm saying is I can perhaps see where John nathan-turner was
• 16:25
  coming from and that I think that this kind of relationship
• 16:28
  probably has a life on it. He conjures in my jumpy Lambert
• 16:32
  who was a Nipper when this one out he felt very much.
• 16:37
  Like the way you said there that they were being very
• 16:39
  condescending that that they were a little arrogant and then
• 16:43
  when they've started bringing in the kids, a drink Tegan and this
• 16:45
  AA. He absolutely loved those
• 16:48
  characters when he was younger. Oh yes, I'm saying that John
• 16:53
  nathan-turner, knew what the problem was.
• 16:54
  Not that he knew what the remedy was to the problem.
• 16:57
  Yeah there's two very different things.
• 16:59
  Okay, so we are heading up into the sky now and down into
• 17:02
  animation. Oh yes which is bloody beautiful
• 17:07
  is, it's very very good for the budget you know I've had some
• 17:11
  conversations with people that have done these animations, the
• 17:14
  budget they have have is nothing at all.
• 17:19
  So the work that they do is very impressive and I think people
• 17:23
  are highly critical of the animations, we are very lucky to
• 17:28
  have people should get a fucking life.
• 17:31
  Look how fucking window? The fucking dreadfulness of
• 17:35
  everything. Get over yourself Jesus Christ.
• 17:38
  I'm sorry, it's no, no sorry. Fuck you, gorgeous Cheese.
• 17:44
  Yeah, waste of oxygen. What complete waste of oxygen or
• 17:48
  what? It was like when we first he can
• 17:50
  notice. What's he reading?
• 17:52
  He's really good. He's reading the time machine
• 17:54
  because that's what you do when you're a time.
• 17:56
  Lord. And we first meet you well of
• 17:59
  course yes I can't imagine him you know like you we met some
• 18:03
  time log characters in the deadliest Fashion Icon.
• 18:04
  Secret note of ultimately why I left you know it's just too much
• 18:08
  fun to be hanging around with that doll bunch.
• 18:10
  I think that is one interesting thing is that the mystery they
• 18:12
  have around Gagra is that's because they want us to think he
• 18:16
  said the avian to begin but doesn't it?
• 18:19
  Yeah. Yes I think that's that's
• 18:21
  actually really expertly done. You know.
• 18:25
  Did you see that book? Bear was called safehold my
• 18:27
  stories on the table. No.
• 18:30
  Is that what it says? Yeah it's just there in the
• 18:33
  corner. Oh my God.
• 18:34
  Yeah so we have we have the overlaps.
• 18:36
  Now is yeah II do think that The Hitchhiker's Universe if it's
• 18:41
  not in the Doctor Who Reverse the dimensions in which they
• 18:45
  exist are extremely porous. And that's probably the best way
• 18:48
  of looking at it because yeah, the overlap, you know, just, you
• 18:55
  know, the Cricut men the over over that so many ideas that
• 18:58
  were docked to to begin with found their fruition in
• 19:01
  hitchhikers and Dirk gently. The other works of Douglas Adams
• 19:05
  and then kind of feedback in in the new series in in quite a big
• 19:09
  way that the influence goes in both directions, doesn't it?
• 19:12
  It's yeah. Oh yeah, there's a there's a
• 19:16
  family tree and then different branches of family route.
• 19:19
  You know, getting married Generations later.
• 19:21
  It's exactly that all this character Wilkin.
• 19:26
  Oh yes. Wilkin who is played by Gerald
• 19:30
  Campion? He was Billy bunter back in the
• 19:32
  50s. Was he really?
• 19:34
  He was yes. And then he yeah.
• 19:36
  And then he became like a club owner in SoHo.
• 19:40
  So yeah, here he was a club and you re so yeah he ran a place
• 19:44
  called Jerry's that Tom would drink in so okay also well yeah
• 19:49
  then Elvin Hayes plays Wilkin in the big finish version and he's
• 19:53
  very good too. I don't know, but he's just
• 19:56
  always hear the story. Like, you know, he really
• 19:59
  doesn't do anything to progress the story at all, he's just a
• 20:03
  fun additional detail. Yeah, he saw the color.
• 20:06
  He's Shakespeare has carried his a bit like him.
• 20:09
  He's kind of there to be part of the scenery and to He's there to
• 20:16
  kind of he's great. He's at you, kind of key greases
• 20:18
  the wheel. He allows him, he conveys
• 20:21
  characters. You know that basically he sends
• 20:24
  people to Crow notice that's it. That's his function, both in
• 20:27
  terms of his occupation. But also, he doesn't the story
• 20:30
  and also responsible for one of the funniest moments in the
• 20:33
  entire story. Which is what he opens that
• 20:35
  door. And the entire room is gone and
• 20:38
  his fat, his reaction to camera. It's something yeah. okay, so
• 20:45
  the doctor and kenosis, they have history, Yes, they have.
• 20:53
  We don't really find out anything about that.
• 20:54
  Do it justice? Because it's just been made up
• 20:56
  now for this story. That's why it's.
• 20:58
  Yeah, it's it's it's convenient for now.
• 21:01
  And that's how, you know, that's how they did.
• 21:02
  Don't do back then. It's only, you know.
• 21:05
  It's yeah, it is, it is what it is.
• 21:09
  It doesn't matter what it is. We get the we get the idea is
• 21:11
  communicating very quickly that they're old, they're all friends
• 21:14
  of different Generations who come from the old country and
• 21:18
  that's all we need to know we get and then we get the rest,
• 21:22
  you know? The pace of this, the very sort
• 21:25
  of relaxed atmosphere of this first episode.
• 21:28
  And obviously there's stuff happening and there is a mild
• 21:32
  Jeopardy before the end of the year.
• 21:34
  But essentially is sort of setting, the scene, introducing
• 21:37
  the characters, things like that.
• 21:39
  I think we lost it nowadays, haven't way with the new series,
• 21:43
  even with I think even with the two, parters, the oh, yeah,
• 21:47
  yeah, the whole table of the language of TV is changed.
• 21:49
  You know, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy back from, you know, just TV
• 21:53
  with the period was slower. And also, the other thing is I
• 21:56
  never want to do watch Sharda, which is a six-part.
• 21:59
  ER, I tend to Cain it at what should one go and it's not
• 22:02
  designed to be watched in Wonder, six part is designed to
• 22:06
  be watched over a period of five weeks.
• 22:08
  And that's that's something in the in the era of recorded
• 22:11
  media. And why is that though?
• 22:15
  Is that just because you start watching and you just don't want
• 22:18
  to turn it off. Yeah.
• 22:19
  Well I'm not going to watch one episode and then wait a week,
• 22:21
  you know? You know, we don't consume
• 22:24
  stuff, the way it was designed to be fed to an audience, which
• 22:28
  is to a broadcast schedule, which is just interests.
• 22:33
  Interesting. That's all the second.
• 22:34
  I say, in there that crack he and I don't know if you've ever
• 22:37
  seen the outtakes from this or of this period.
• 22:43
  Tell me, tell me, and Luke and Alyssa is at home, just in case
• 22:46
  they go. Wow I want to ruin your
• 22:47
  enjoyment of it is essentially Tom Baker behaving in an obscene
• 22:51
  way and then suddenly he's on the second they say right we're
• 22:56
  going he's so Charming. Our no, I haven't seen it.
• 23:00
  No, I haven't. There's dance that there's a
• 23:02
  couple from here. There's a few from the Leisure,
• 23:05
  however, as well. So it's just it is around this
• 23:07
  period where you're his ego is effectively monstrous and you
• 23:12
  know, he's calling the shots. Once one thing that Tom ones,
• 23:18
  costumers the doctor in this season to me, he no longer looks
• 23:25
  like he's the doctor. He looks like Tom Baker who's
• 23:28
  been filming us the doctor and now they've quit filming.
• 23:31
  He's kind of gone down the pub. It's I think it's because you
• 23:33
  know that your shirts open neck and if the waistcoat is open, I
• 23:38
  see tommen doctory close rather than you know, like you think
• 23:42
  back to the kind of Hinchcliffe era when the .
• 23:45
  The First turns up. That's the doctor, the book, The
• 23:49
  Bohemian in his Bohemian get up in season 17, I kind of see.
• 23:55
  Tom really who's that? Who's like, you know, was
• 24:00
  dressed as the doctor like earlier in the day, is now,
• 24:05
  while the failure I was wearing that, you know, you had a
• 24:07
  toothbrush in his pocket and he wherever they were going on
• 24:10
  location. He just crawled into a corner
• 24:12
  and fell asleep in the costume. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:14
  But it's just, I just Fight. It's interesting that this is
• 24:16
  this, season's doctor feels, there's more Tom in him, I think
• 24:22
  somehow. And you think that that is
• 24:26
  frittered away and 18 because I think 18 he's giving more of a
• 24:31
  performance. Okay.
• 24:32
  I think I think I think that's might be again J.
• 24:35
  And T Noting it and reading it or not reading him in, but kind
• 24:41
  of getting him to play the part again.
• 24:45
  But then again, he free dresses and burgundy and and yeah and
• 24:51
  reminds him that it's a job that he hasn't got for life.
• 24:54
  So I kind of, I think the biggest question marks on his
• 24:57
  colors and you, like you said, he didn't always make Savvy
• 25:00
  choices. No, no, but he a, but he did, I
• 25:03
  think he could tell what the problems were.
• 25:07
  But he yeah. Does.
• 25:09
  It mean again doesn't mean not good?
• 25:10
  Identify really hard to find a solution?
• 25:12
  Yeah. Are two very different things.
• 25:16
  It's just an observation, but yeah, I wanted to ask you.
• 25:19
  So, what's your relationship with sorry?
• 25:22
  This is getting very personal now with Douglas Adams
• 25:26
  hitchhiker's, you know. It is other work, like, did you
• 25:29
  double that up? I'll completely.
• 25:31
  Yeah, I got into Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy through the
• 25:34
  books first. So I first consume them as the
• 25:38
  books, then the BBC TV series and then on radio in that order.
• 25:46
  And since then, Dirk, maggs a towel who've, you know, brought
• 25:51
  the rest of hitchhikers to radio the stuff that didn't get
• 25:55
  produced in Heaven's is Lifetime and yeah, I love it in all its
• 26:00
  forms, not the film, but you know, I love it in most of its
• 26:03
  forms. He said I'm a big, I'm a big
• 26:05
  Douglas Adams fan what way? That failed OT.
• 26:08
  It was terrible. Yeah.
• 26:10
  Pacing timing, really. I think it's too fast and I
• 26:14
  thought I was some smart casting choice of some really great
• 26:17
  stuff in it but it doesn't. Yeah.
• 26:19
  But it doesn't quite work. It's like you know, some people
• 26:23
  can know how to tell a joke in some can't it's just the
• 26:25
  touching of the timing was off for one thing in that I don't
• 26:28
  know what the problem was but yeah I know I'm big Douglas
• 26:31
  Adams fan and I really love his era of scripting Doctor Who so
• 26:36
  the A pirate planet city of death Sharda are.
• 26:41
  Yeah, that's that's really wonderful stuff.
• 26:44
  I won't say it's kind of, you know, I kind of think I don't
• 26:47
  think it's I wouldn't say it's a definitive period of Doctor Who
• 26:51
  but it's some of the most interesting mean, shouldn't we
• 26:54
  talk more doing? Now is just a fascinating and
• 26:58
  one level. It's just a, it's a fascinating
• 27:00
  phenomenon in the, there are so many different versions of it
• 27:02
  but just the the concept behind it itself is just so Fun
• 27:07
  charming and very, very clever. I always find the pirate Planet.
• 27:14
  I must find the plot of the pirate Planet, quite robust.
• 27:18
  I think he had a bit of help didn't eat because apparently it
• 27:22
  was a bit sprawling and a bit of all over the place.
• 27:24
  And I think Anthony Reid, helped kind of beat it into four
• 27:28
  episodes and give it a bit of structure.
• 27:31
  Yeah, and also I must have met with with his doctor who story
• 27:34
  especially these ones weight, they had apparently.
• 27:37
  Right in a hurry. It's difficult to, you know, I
• 27:39
  think green Williams is contribution can get overlooked
• 27:43
  very much so. So we we do tend to kind of
• 27:46
  worship at the altar of atoms and we don't really know how
• 27:49
  things went down when they were just desperately.
• 27:52
  Trying to get this job done and get the fuck out on paper and
• 27:55
  then recording the studio. We don't really know because
• 27:59
  with this one. Is he writing and script
• 28:03
  editing? Yes.
• 28:05
  So in real terms, you know, that means, you know, you need
• 28:10
  another pair of eyes. So you know, at least this is
• 28:13
  this is a lot more relaxed. Today is a bit more sprawling.
• 28:16
  I wouldn't say it's as tight as the other two.
• 28:20
  No, no, no. I think I said that the end of
• 28:23
  our greatest show in the Galaxy one that I always think this is
• 28:27
  my favorite until I watch it. Then I realized, I know it is
• 28:30
  city of death is the best one by far, but There's so much to love
• 28:35
  and the atmosphere of this one is so gorgeous.
• 28:38
  But yeah, I think by episode 5, I'm starting to think I'm
• 28:42
  missing Cambridge and this maybe this is get dressed.
• 28:46
  I find that. So I find episode 1 & 2, I just
• 28:49
  near perfect. Oh yeah, yeah he sucks in.
• 28:52
  I really like episode 6 as well and then somewhere in the middle
• 28:55
  there's a lot of corridor wondering isn't there and when
• 28:58
  they exactly has been Think Tank and it's a lot of in and out of
• 29:01
  the TARDIS as well with Ramona and scarecrow and There's some
• 29:04
  great dialogue and some great things happening.
• 29:07
  But it gets it's a little bit kind of gets a bit becomes a bit
• 29:11
  of a run around slightly convoluted.
• 29:14
  One always saying this would have been a more impressive for
• 29:17
  than a six maybe 5:05. Yeah I do I like well maybe it
• 29:22
  maybe we just wrong. I don't know.
• 29:29
  Okay so there is a car winging its way through Cambridge right
• 29:33
  now. Yeah.
• 29:34
  And that car is a 1975. Of Triumph.
• 29:39
  Oh, 2000 2500 or two years as a state because I actually wasn't
• 29:46
  detail yet is because in the big finish one it's a Ford prefect
• 29:54
  and add to it. And so I wanted to check if in
• 29:59
  the TV version if it was a Ford prefect and it isn't, it's a
• 30:03
  Triumph so I was very disappointed but I Think I
• 30:08
  thought it was worth noting for posterity, that yeah.
• 30:14
  It's not that's not the car. I hoped it would be and I did.
• 30:17
  I usually don't care about these things, but for obvious reasons
• 30:19
  that just felt fitting. I think that there is a detail
• 30:24
  of the invisible spaceship. That is so delightful.
• 30:28
  Oh, it's wonderful. And the most beautiful spaceship
• 30:31
  we've ever seen in Doctor Who. Yeah, yeah, and it's, this is
• 30:35
  grantchester Meadows where it's parked, which is south of
• 30:39
  Cambridge and Pink, Floyd named a song after it in there. 1969
• 30:44
  album. I'm a Gummer and Douglas Adams
• 30:47
  was a friend of Dave Gilmour. And Douglas a is 42nd birthday
• 30:54
  he played With ET, he played rhythm guitar, doing a doing
• 31:00
  some dark side of the moon, but yeah, so I don't know if Grant
• 31:04
  don't know how much of the Pink Floyd reference is that the fact
• 31:07
  that its partners in crime, just a Meadows but grantchester
• 31:10
  Motors is nevertheless a kind of a significant place in Cambridge
• 31:15
  that the he chose to park a spaceship so it has to have some
• 31:19
  significance. That's how you.
• 31:20
  You really have done your research.
• 31:22
  Somewhat. Yeah, it's worth doing is right.
• 31:24
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 31:27
  But you know what I often find when they have invisible
• 31:29
  monsters and dogs. Here are real good grief.
• 31:31
  This is incredibly cheap. I'll just think there's
• 31:33
  something so cheeky about having an invisible spaceship, the give
• 31:37
  it they give a carpet up to the invisible Runway and he's right
• 31:41
  argue with that. It's perfect, it's not about
• 31:44
  that. I show people going up the ramp
• 31:46
  as well, you know. So it's a very, it's a fun.
• 31:49
  What is the Voyage Home today? Star Trek for?
• 31:52
  Yeah, and it's not as, if they haven't put effort in, it's
• 31:54
  just, it's just, it's just a clever way.
• 31:56
  She idea that makes, it makes total plot sense that you can't
• 32:00
  have the spaceship scene but making it visible.
• 32:03
  It's just it's just a clever and fun at the same time that sounds
• 32:08
  like, Douglas Adams really isn't it those scarecrows watching
• 32:13
  previous Adventures of the doctor on the screen here, was
• 32:18
  this supposed to be clips from the past couple of Seasons?
• 32:21
  Or is this something they've just done for this release?
• 32:25
  The it will tell. So I imagine that I imagine
• 32:29
  they're doing what was scripted in the big finish version.
• 32:33
  They play clips of big finish stories with other incarnations
• 32:36
  of the doctor so you have a bit of 60 and even Smythe.
• 32:40
  For example, played at slightly fast speed so that's how that's
• 32:44
  how they do it on audio because I've got them if they've got
• 32:47
  that material to play with. But yeah adding ableism I've
• 32:51
  just adds A Touch of Class to anything, you know?
• 32:53
  Yes. And also it makes the universe
• 32:55
  feel bigger. Rather than just yes showing
• 32:58
  clips of the curtain of the previous season.
• 33:01
  But yeah, but we are but we are in a period on WE before that
• 33:06
  became the norm obviously. You head into the latter
• 33:08
  Jonathan Turner time and they were clips of old stories on the
• 33:12
  screen all the time. Whereas that might be quite nice
• 33:14
  at this point. Yeah but it's funny that that
• 33:17
  fate is most of what we ever saw of Sharda was other episodes of
• 33:22
  Doctor Who showing the thoughtful clips of that
• 33:24
  incomparable ways. Yeah.
• 33:26
  Kind of fun. Hey, Rob.
• 33:29
  A Great Hero of the doctors are criminal and I say outrageous.
• 33:36
  Oh well, no, it's that's the doc, he's a, he's a rebel, you
• 33:39
  know. That's the thing.
• 33:41
  That was so that was that was actually the seed of the idea.
• 33:44
  Wasn't it? What the time Lords do with,
• 33:47
  they're criminals. And that was and from that he
• 33:51
  got, he extrapolated the rest assured there, which is just for
• 33:54
  it, it's always fun to know what the piece of grit was that, you
• 33:58
  know, a Creator, builds the rest of the Pearl around, you know?
• 34:02
  But yeah. And in his case that was it.
• 34:04
  Well, off camera. I have to ask you about some of
• 34:07
  your stories and in that respect, oh yeah, she's fine
• 34:10
  fight. Yeah, what the inspirational.
• 34:12
  In fact, you know what, I actually feel that.
• 34:14
  That's the one don't tell me to fuck off, all right?
• 34:18
  The one area of this the animation that I was a little
• 34:23
  disappointed with in that. It is just like a Lotus
• 34:26
  boring-looking sales and I know that that is exactly how they
• 34:29
  would have realized in the late 70s.
• 34:32
  Yeah, I suppose that's what the kind of no, hidebound, by the
• 34:35
  fact that it's hype and the right word.
• 34:36
  Anyway, they're Their Own Prison.
• 34:39
  I'll retract retract using a word of them kind of fuzzy on
• 34:44
  its meaning of, yeah, so yeah, they were probably.
• 34:49
  Felt duty-bound, that's pretty, that's pretty well.
• 34:51
  My brain was going to be authentic.
• 34:54
  Be authentic to the original intention rather than try to
• 34:57
  improve on it. Yeah.
• 34:59
  Are now here's Claire. Who is another delightful
• 35:04
  character? What'd you say her name was?
• 35:05
  Victoria the going? Yes, and they are, this was her
• 35:08
  first Telly, wasn't it? I don't know.
• 35:10
  It was it was first acting gig. Was she a dancer or something
• 35:14
  like that? I don't.
• 35:16
  The only reason I say that is because Tom Baker says, in Intro
• 35:19
  to the VHS, you know, the shore door intro.
• 35:23
  Yeah. That she was devastated when
• 35:26
  this got cancelled because it was her first TV appearance.
• 35:30
  So gutting. What are they good?
• 35:35
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 35:36
  Because you're actually in the, making the documentary that
• 35:39
  comes with this, Daniel Hills talking about, you know, the the
• 35:44
  they all knew they were working on something special and just it
• 35:47
  was, would have been gutting for Them but Christmas, Claire,
• 35:50
  they're kind of, they're very rare, normal P.
• 35:53
  I think normal people, but they're 1970s BBC normal people.
• 35:58
  Now, the sort of characters we get in Doctor Who now all the
• 36:01
  time that you're right. It's very rare at this point in
• 36:04
  the show. Yeah, so it's it's on fly
• 36:09
  through entirety. Then we could really clever
• 36:11
  point about kind of observing that in some ways.
• 36:14
  They are kind of parallels of Ian and Barbara.
• 36:19
  Which I think it, which I think is.
• 36:20
  Absolutely. Yeah, but it's just very odd
• 36:23
  that this period of Doctor Who to get regular people but like I
• 36:27
  said, there room in the same way that kind of Arthur Dent in the
• 36:30
  70s in the 70s, is kind of in a regular guy.
• 36:34
  They're all a bit. They all went.
• 36:36
  You can tell they're all bit Oxbridge, you know, it's kind
• 36:38
  of, you know. Yeah.
• 36:39
  Normal normal people in the 70's are Posh really, you know, which
• 36:45
  is when you get to the the film version of hitchhikers Arthur
• 36:48
  Dent. Recently played by Martin
• 36:49
  Freeman who's much more of a kind of a coming off of the
• 36:52
  office, is much more already. Regular a regular guy who's
• 36:57
  just, you know, regular lower middle-class guy, and that's our
• 37:01
  contemporary idea of what constitutes normal.
• 37:04
  But yeah, they aren't, they are 1970s normal people.
• 37:08
  I think it's nice to have a potential couple in Doctor Who
• 37:13
  that you can actually route for. And it's not, you know, God was
• 37:15
  looking back in the previous season.
• 37:16
  You've got people like, you know, Astra, and that wet
• 37:20
  character whose name I completely forget who's running
• 37:23
  around the story. Going Astra Astra all the time.
• 37:26
  Yeah, but it's funny though, that it does, it does kind of
• 37:29
  throw into relief, the doctor, and Ramana are very, not human,
• 37:34
  and they are very at a remove from everything around them.
• 37:39
  You know, where you start from the doctor, but having someone
• 37:42
  who's very much, like the doctor and on the doctors level and
• 37:45
  written, by this point, you can quite tell they're thoroughly,
• 37:48
  love. Having each other's company, it
• 37:50
  kind of yeah. And that's what that's why I
• 37:53
  love about the pair of them is that they are us, Ali
• 37:57
  intoxicated with each other, you know.
• 37:59
  But the downside is it makes it impossible for them to connect
• 38:03
  on any kind of level with christening Claire.
• 38:05
  That's the problem, you're right.
• 38:07
  It is the 10th doctor arose syndrome, isn't it?
• 38:10
  UK kite. There's a little bit of it there
• 38:13
  that they're having a bit that they're having more fun than He
• 38:17
  kind of feel they ought to be somehow, don't Romano's toasting
• 38:20
  her muffin. So I'm going to do the same
• 38:21
  right now. I have a second see that's
• 38:23
  that's the other thing. This is, you know, we this is
• 38:26
  this is a very tea and muffins. This is a really cozy story
• 38:30
  that's what I love about. It's like putting on a nice
• 38:33
  comfy pair of slippers, you know, is that it?
• 38:36
  Is that where I am with it? I'm asking you where I am with
• 38:39
  it because but this is the thing watching it.
• 38:43
  The story may not be the greatest but just the atmosphere
• 38:46
  in the go. Into the world of Sharda is like
• 38:49
  going to hang out somewhere cozy, warm, safe comforting.
• 38:53
  That's what it is. And it really, that's why the
• 38:55
  first two episodes are sodalite. Yes.
• 38:58
  Yeah, ask what? I perhaps we both lose interest,
• 39:02
  but are less seduced. Yeah, it's kind of like, with
• 39:07
  Lord of the Rings once they leave hobbiton and you kind of I
• 39:11
  was enjoying hanging out it's that I think once I mean
• 39:15
  obviously the room goes As with them cut his Tardis but we don't
• 39:20
  but it's still, I think battery. Exactly brilliant.
• 39:24
  Isn't it just yeah but I do I mean I think I start to miss
• 39:27
  Cambridge later on. When those console starts
• 39:32
  spinning and the buttons come out, I just think that's great.
• 39:35
  He sits on a couple of really good.
• 39:37
  We're not I don't think Doctor Who does big twist.
• 39:41
  Like that, really, it tells an adventure story and there's lots
• 39:44
  of peril. But I think that the whole thing
• 39:48
  about Sally open that set up in episode 1 I think and is paid
• 39:52
  off in episode 6. Yeah it's really plotted very
• 39:58
  very well and think that I think specific as I'm so familiar with
• 40:03
  it. You know.
• 40:03
  I forget that we don't know. I forget that we are meant to be
• 40:08
  guessing about who's Sally, a being is or rather.
• 40:11
  He knows that we will be guessing about who sell the
• 40:13
  avian is and It's so obvious that it could be crew.
• 40:17
  Notice that's why Scag, ER, is some so mysterious that his
• 40:22
  origin isn't explained, until after he's been defeated big for
• 40:25
  that very reason. I like the fact that as the
• 40:28
  story progresses, there's lots of hints and clues that the kids
• 40:32
  can pick up on like kids that are watching.
• 40:34
  This, can kind of figure it out as I go along.
• 40:37
  Fuck the adults. Who cares if they guess or not.
• 40:41
  Oh, I do. I love the idea of the sphere as
• 40:44
  well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Visual and,
• 40:49
  and and cheap, but that doesn't mean bad.
• 40:53
  No, no, no. But it's some of the, the really
• 40:57
  simple effect sticking on a pole and just having the pole
• 41:00
  obscured by, by the sphere itself.
• 41:03
  So you've got this really great, practical effects of it just
• 41:06
  like coming out of Christopher. Nimes hand and stuff like that.
• 41:09
  Yeah, I know I just I like the quirkiness of the sort of
• 41:13
  action. I'm going to do that in.
• 41:15
  Quotes sequence of the doctor being pursued by the severe now
• 41:20
  that the center and through the winding streets of Cambridge.
• 41:25
  Yeah, but it's doing the thing that all good action, things
• 41:30
  should do. It comes from Hitchcock.
• 41:31
  I think really it's just that you must use, You observe your
• 41:35
  environment and use the features of your environment.
• 41:38
  And so of course, it has to be a bicycle Chase because you're in
• 41:42
  Cambridge. It's compulsory Since yeah, one
• 41:47
  of the guys, you know, you have punts, you have your punting on
• 41:51
  the cam and you've got bicycles, that's what you have.
• 41:54
  And the doctor who does that all the time?
• 41:56
  Doesn't it leading instantly? Cliches of the location.
• 41:59
  There are look at, I've no Talent away triangle with foggy,
• 42:03
  London, you know. Oh yeah, yeah, a body.
• 42:06
  Coming into the Thames. Yeah.
• 42:08
  All those sort of visual cliches, but it takes you there
• 42:11
  straight away. Yeah.
• 42:13
  You, you have to you bring on board all the tropes and
• 42:17
  signature motifs of whatever you happen to be ripping off in this
• 42:20
  particular story. Yeah, that's exactly it.
• 42:24
  Okay. Kiki let Ramona heading into the
• 42:25
  Tardis to get some milk but obviously that gets her away.
• 42:29
  So ask a girl can then do his thing.
• 42:33
  Yes, even even the milk gag has a kind of a plot element to it
• 42:39
  and it's not just a joke about, you know, To obscure.
• 42:44
  Yeah. Oh yeah, it actually it actually
• 42:47
  that's House. Calgary gets to cry.
• 42:49
  Notice. So it's even the running gag
• 42:52
  about t. Actually feeds into the pot
• 42:56
  itself and that's a very Douglas Adams thing to do.
• 42:58
  Ya don't, if you, if you introduce an element, you use
• 43:01
  that element in more than one way.
• 43:05
  I think that's a step of Muffet thing as well.
• 43:08
  You know, he's he's very good at introducing a lot of details.
• 43:12
  Owls and then doing surprising things with them later on.
• 43:16
  I I remember an interview with Steven Moffat, where he talked
• 43:18
  about the season 17 and he was quite critical of Douglas Adams
• 43:25
  is script editing. But full of praise for his
• 43:28
  writing and I think he's a big Advocate.
• 43:32
  Yeah. Oh yeah, he is.
• 43:33
  He is but they're two different skills and I mean, I'd see this
• 43:38
  season 17. There's a lot of it is not good,
• 43:41
  but it just happens to have in it city of death and Sharda.
• 43:47
  The rest is fun too and he's really Aspire really larger than
• 43:51
  the. Felons are very hot but I've
• 43:55
  been that I finally alabaster's pretty whole, you know, nobody.
• 44:00
  I like the the high concept ideas in it.
• 44:03
  I think like nightmare of Eden is packed full of great called
• 44:06
  sales and there's lots of whiskey lines.
• 44:09
  I feel like there's a confidence to the performances and
• 44:13
  overconfident sometimes. It isn't always are in a lot,
• 44:16
  the Productions. I don't know.
• 44:18
  I just, I just think it's one of those Seasons that it's just
• 44:22
  really fun. That's the thing, I'm, you know,
• 44:25
  whatever, whatever you kind of think, you know, in terms of
• 44:29
  quality and stuff, you know, you're in, for a good time.
• 44:32
  That's that's the thing about it.
• 44:34
  But Toby hajduk say something. Quite interesting recently, on
• 44:37
  one of his podcast where he was talking about, introducing
• 44:41
  non-fans to Doctor Who I was just putting on a classic Doctor
• 44:45
  Who, And you could show them something very serious, like
• 44:48
  talents going to Aang, don't tell me trying Genesis of the
• 44:51
  Daleks pyramids of Mars caves of androzani.
• 44:54
  But actually for a non-fan, you probably would get a better
• 44:58
  reaction with something like this.
• 45:01
  Yeah. What for non-fan, what you want
• 45:04
  is, seeing one of Julian Glover in his fantastic.
• 45:08
  See it riding into the basement. Boom ear in.
• 45:11
  I don't care who you are sold. Yeah.
• 45:17
  I didn't know. I'm a massive fantasies and 17.
• 45:20
  I actually I do like 18, but I feel like the fun.
• 45:24
  Just I really love some of season. 18 State of Decay and
• 45:32
  warriors gate, I just think of both beautiful haunting pieces,
• 45:35
  but some on some days. And again, people at home, my
• 45:39
  opinions are silly, flimsy things don't take them,
• 45:44
  seriously. Sometimes I kind of I think
• 45:47
  maybe the fourth doctor should have regenerated at the end of
• 45:51
  Sharda. Make it a regeneration story.
• 45:54
  Oh wow. Yeah, I have never heard that.
• 45:58
  No it's because it's because it's just something I just
• 46:00
  thought of it's just I kind of think maybe the John
• 46:04
  nathan-turner are and might have been kicked off to a more
• 46:08
  interesting start if the new doctors?
• 46:11
  Well I don't know and tomorrow I won't think that anymore but you
• 46:14
  know, it's just a thing. To something that gives you
• 46:16
  curves to me is that you would do anything.
• 46:19
  Great. Show you our new.
• 46:20
  Yeah, kick it out. Ideas like this on the fly.
• 46:24
  Yeah, it's just you know sometimes I think it was season
• 46:28
  17, the atmosphere of it the Douglas Adams Enos of it.
• 46:32
  So suited Tom might have been a good place to Shuttle off.
• 46:38
  Yeah, I don't disagree but I feel like 18 such an insane lie
• 46:43
  down side, is you miss out on Tom's performance and seasonal?
• 46:46
  Yeah, that Journey here and that, you know, the last thing I
• 46:49
  ever would have expected after a season like 17 where he's so
• 46:54
  vital, you know, and Alive would be to have that kind of mournful
• 46:59
  tone in logopolis and for him to bow on that sort of no.
• 47:05
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 47:06
  But then again, this is Sharda so they maybe one day they'll be
• 47:09
  a version of it where he regenerates at the end because
• 47:11
  there could be it showed Anything Could Happen.
• 47:14
  Do you think that Sharda would be?
• 47:19
  Obviously, you know, the thing that makes this stand out is the
• 47:23
  fact that it was completed. Do you think if it had been
• 47:27
  completed that it wouldn't really ready, much interest
• 47:34
  Yeah, I think it's me. It's been completed.
• 47:37
  There were no sense of loss. No sense of mystery or sense of
• 47:41
  anything being taken away from us.
• 47:42
  And also, the gently's holistic, detective agency would not have
• 47:47
  happened in the way happened crew.
• 47:49
  Notice wouldn't have been reused.
• 47:51
  Then again, in the gently, there is an alien character in it,
• 47:58
  it's not a big part, but he, his plan is to go back to The dawn
• 48:04
  of man and prevent it from happening to save his own
• 48:08
  species. So he even rips off bits of city
• 48:10
  of death to. Wow.
• 48:12
  Okay, yeah. But I kind of think, I think
• 48:15
  wondering like Terrence big dicks in one of his original,
• 48:20
  the BBC own, what you, what you deliver to them.
• 48:23
  But you keep your PC. You can reuse things like that
• 48:25
  when he died, he definitely did. Yeah, but I know, I think if
• 48:29
  Charles had been filmed its entirety, if you know it, I
• 48:33
  don't think. Many people would sort of say,
• 48:35
  wouldn't it? Oh, that's a nice little
• 48:36
  six-part or at the end of the season.
• 48:38
  How nicely they saved a little bit of money for that one, you
• 48:41
  know. Yeah.
• 48:42
  Actually, you know, in Watchmen Dr. Manhattan, his origin story,
• 48:49
  he's a scientist he gets shut in this radiation particle
• 48:53
  accelerator thing and then he becomes dr.
• 48:55
  Manhattan, those kind of what happens to this episode, it's
• 48:58
  just normal episode of Doctor Who going about his business
• 49:01
  getting produced. Then suddenly experiences this
• 49:04
  catastrophic superhero origin story and then become something
• 49:08
  bigger than a bigger than an episode of Doctor Who and that's
• 49:11
  what Sharda is. It's not an episode of Doctor
• 49:14
  Who It was an episode of Doctor Who, but before it got finished
• 49:20
  its superhero origin story occurred and now it's now it's
• 49:23
  something other than an episode of Doctor Who it's a, it's a big
• 49:28
  pile of interconnected ideas about what it might have been
• 49:33
  and you are right. There's it's that sense of
• 49:36
  Injustice and same sort of Injustice.
• 49:38
  We feel about the junking of the episodes from the 60s except
• 49:42
  that they could be found. And chard and never exist.
• 49:47
  Oh yeah, that's yeah, that's in. Even if they may never be found
• 49:51
  them. There may be, what was lost
• 49:53
  mean. There might have been recovered,
• 49:55
  but this never existed. That's the difference.
• 49:59
  Can I say this sequence here of the choirboys of using something
• 50:04
  that was in the location? Yeah.
• 50:07
  Singing Chattanooga Choo. Choo is just Sublime.
• 50:11
  It happened because the the crew were in the pub the night
• 50:15
  before. For filming and they met the guy
• 50:18
  a couple of guys from the singing Club, whatever it was in
• 50:23
  the pub. So it wasn't, oh yeah.
• 50:25
  Come down here tomorrow. We're filming down here.
• 50:27
  Yeah, it's all because, again, that's just using your
• 50:32
  environment. You know?
• 50:33
  It's such. It's a very, you know, but the
• 50:36
  thing is this, a suspenseful sequence.
• 50:38
  I'm never quite sure. I think it's really well shot
• 50:40
  and I love that they're, you know, on a bike or on it in a
• 50:43
  car shooting. Tom Baker and some kind of
• 50:47
  dynamism to the to the execution.
• 50:50
  But this is suspenseful know, Tom is in no danger.
• 50:55
  Now in any point he is he strides through the stories in
• 51:01
  this period, completely invincible and invulnerable.
• 51:04
  He's in no danger from anything, which is different from the
• 51:07
  Hinchcliffe era and it's different from season 18.
• 51:09
  But yeah, he's no danger. So you don't watch in those
• 51:13
  terms, you, I think, I think If you watch it, just he's going
• 51:17
  through the motions of an adventure and you just enjoy it
• 51:20
  on those terms. But that's what I love those
• 51:22
  moments because Tom back, it does kind of wander through G
• 51:25
  Williams here are so confident but he's going to, you know,
• 51:28
  survive and defeat the villains and all this.
• 51:30
  When the rug pulled out from under him and I hated
• 51:32
  pre-emptive seen as coming later but dead men, don't require
• 51:36
  oxygen where he's like, he thinks he's completely in
• 51:40
  command of that scene. And then the Cliffhanger
• 51:44
  literally is is, you know, he'll thority read cycle.
• 51:48
  It's brilliant. And that's what that's one of my
• 51:50
  life into this Forest. One of my favorite things about
• 51:53
  the fourth doctor is that he's so fun and irreverent, wacky and
• 51:59
  outlandish and then he realizes what's going on then, boom,
• 52:03
  Suddenly, It's So when he's serious, you know, it's serious
• 52:08
  and that's one of the great things about him is That kind of
• 52:13
  oh, oh. Oh shit.
• 52:14
  He's worried now. Oh, oh, it's bad.
• 52:16
  Well, I hate you. I hate to do this to you on a
• 52:20
  podcast where I'm talking to you, but I felt that is exactly
• 52:24
  what happened with shadow of the sun.
• 52:25
  You know which I listen to recently where the doctor is
• 52:28
  very irreverent for the first sort of 5-10 minutes and out
• 52:31
  story and then when he realizes what's occurring.
• 52:35
  Yeah. And that's why that's that's
• 52:37
  because I love it when he does that.
• 52:39
  That's why I wrote that. Is that thing of oh boy, okay.
• 52:42
  Yeah, if the fourth doctor is suddenly taking things
• 52:45
  seriously, then you know that that, you know, the I was in the
• 52:51
  Masters dropped because it's not really a mask with him.
• 52:53
  It's just he just, he is, that kind of high on life but when
• 52:57
  he, when he kind of knows what the stakes are and without
• 53:01
  giving Baker as an actor, he can just the tote, the tone shift is
• 53:05
  just too good. Not to employ.
• 53:07
  What I look at. That sequence in the power
• 53:11
  planet where he has, and then all of a sudden, he is Gravely
• 53:16
  said, well, actually, I think the sequence of the sequel's
• 53:19
  were celebrated is the appreciated supers, the sequins
• 53:22
  I think is incredible, is the one where they're underground in
• 53:25
  the cave. Yeah.
• 53:26
  Because that's when he first Twigs, isn't it?
• 53:28
  Yeah. And he's like, Romana, we've
• 53:30
  stumbled on, you know, one of the greatest crimes and there's
• 53:32
  injury is so he's brilliantly good, but the kind of thing, you
• 53:37
  did. Sorry.
• 53:38
  I'm so sorry. I did a bit but luckily for you,
• 53:41
  you put him in a situation where He could do something about it,
• 53:47
  but the people didn't want him to and that is really
• 53:51
  interesting because, well, that's what that's where we are
• 53:53
  now. We are surrounded by fucking
• 53:56
  Nutters and you know who, you know, who cannot read a rope.
• 54:00
  Yeah. Whoo.
• 54:02
  You can't, you can't convince them that their opinions are
• 54:05
  crazy with you know, scientific method or rationality and the
• 54:11
  iso. Yeah, it's put the doctor in
• 54:12
  that kind of situation is there's nothing you can say
• 54:14
  These people and I think I think that's that's one of the most
• 54:17
  interesting things you can do with a character as Savvy as the
• 54:21
  fourth doctor is. Just put him into an unsolvable
• 54:23
  problem. Yeah, it's going to be a spring
• 54:27
  in stock is a Kobayashi Maru type thing, really?
• 54:29
  It's you, you can't win. So what you do, you know, and
• 54:34
  there are no, see, I'm not going to keep saying detail will be
• 54:37
  able to guard by that. So thank you very much.
• 54:43
  So David. Really K9.
• 54:46
  Yeah, not as popular as John Leeson.
• 54:51
  It's Jonathan's character and John Leeson gets it.
• 54:56
  I've got no problem now. I don't I think he's a very
• 54:59
  pretty high camp Canine and I love it.
• 55:01
  Yeah, it's a different kind of line.
• 55:05
  It's John Lisa in the big fan of this, John Leeson.
• 55:07
  I get back for the big finish when there, isn't it?
• 55:08
  So yeah, it's yeah. So, again, Sharda being Sharda,
• 55:13
  there is a Sir, John Leeson version which is and that's one
• 55:17
  of the things about show either. You know, you have to have both
• 55:22
  iterations of canine, both income, both encompassed within
• 55:26
  different versions of this thing on.
• 55:28
  Its is Andrew Sachs who plays scarecrow a very different Scag
• 55:33
  ra. Okay, I've got an ask a question
• 55:36
  in the style of o'clock from the Aztecs.
• 55:39
  Where will it end your toxa? How many shoulders will we get
• 55:42
  here? He has nothing to do with
• 55:53
  anything at all. I don't understand.
• 55:56
  I don't get that bit, is it? Yeah.
• 55:58
  Is it an in-joke or was just, they had, it would have been if
• 56:11
  Episode 5 or 6, you know? Scag are desperately needed to
• 56:16
  know how to how to be, of course, fishing, and or
• 56:19
  something. Then I do I fight yesterday.
• 56:22
  I need to catch some tench for my plan to succeed, but who know
• 56:28
  it is an odd detail, though, isn't it?
• 56:30
  I do wonder if maybe there was because it is Douglas Adams.
• 56:34
  If there was some, if it's a, if it was a setup to some payoff,
• 56:38
  that never occurred the some payoff, the gets look got lost.
• 56:42
  Possibly, maybe. I don't know.
• 56:44
  I don't know. But, you know, the effort it
• 56:47
  must have taken to film. They must have.
• 56:48
  Yeah, it was never a reason. I thought I'd I refused a plea
• 56:52
  that Douglas Adams would just throw in a random saying, for no
• 56:56
  reason. Yeah.
• 56:57
  Yeah, I so my guess is, this is just a guess we aren't
• 57:01
  completely unqualified. Maybe there was some Pay off
• 57:06
  later. Maybe it was the way that Ramana
• 57:08
  was going to Twig that. About the fallibility of the
• 57:14
  whole system that there's a fisherman in there.
• 57:18
  And the thought and that that might fit into her idea about I
• 57:21
  don't know but make them something like that.
• 57:23
  Maybe it is it is not did it we're approaching a scene in it
• 57:29
  where it's kagira steals clothes.
• 57:34
  From a gentleman. Oh yes, another another random
• 57:38
  victim. And I believe you have something
• 57:41
  to say about this. Yeah, well it's few things
• 57:48
  really in the, you know, it's in the in the, in the Gareth
• 57:52
  Roberts novel. It's a gay pick up, it's an
• 57:56
  area. So no spoilers the whole
• 57:58
  chapter, I think. Yeah, but it gets paid off later
• 58:00
  as well. In the, in the written, the big
• 58:04
  finish one. It's, it's he's picked up in a
• 58:08
  Ford, prefect. And the guys, the, the chairman
• 58:12
  of the Ford prefect, Appreciation Society or
• 58:14
  something. They currently, are they make
• 58:16
  sure you don't miss the fact. It's a Ford prefect basic, but
• 58:19
  it but again, you know, in different versions of this, they
• 58:22
  do different things. Which I just think is Fun.
• 58:28
  So Tom Baker, arcing around in a field trying to find the edge of
• 58:32
  an invisible spaceship. I mean I would always pay good
• 58:36
  money for that. Yes.
• 58:37
  The things I think Chris and the doctor worked really well
• 58:40
  together. Yeah, they really got ya later
• 58:42
  old winner in the think tank together.
• 58:46
  Yeah, incredibly. Well then it's not quite the
• 58:49
  chemistry of the fourth doctor and Harry Sullivan, but it's
• 58:56
  close. But I kind of think from Ramana
• 59:01
  being there as well, but I think between the doctrine Romana, it
• 59:05
  feels the like the gang up on Chris just a bit, but I kind of
• 59:10
  think if with a with a with another human side kick, instead
• 59:14
  of Ramana that the dr. Chris Parsons thing would have
• 59:19
  actually could have had legs and carried on and Chris could have
• 59:22
  stuck with them for now. The season, you know, you know
• 59:25
  what, the more I think about it. It's sort of high and mighty
• 59:30
  wolf dogs from Ramona when a trick comes along and he's smart
• 59:34
  as well. They they kind of should have
• 59:36
  been a cohesive lot of family units, you know, but they
• 59:40
  actually treat him terribly and the actors eat like you can tell
• 59:45
  with the actors that there is a dislike of Matthew walls house
• 59:49
  as well. So the whole thing doesn't
• 59:52
  really work in a way. I think you you need someone to
• 59:56
  you need someone like Duggan who's because Doug and it works
• 1:00:00
  for nice ducking as well. But Duggan, Duggan takes it in a
• 1:00:05
  different way. Duggan isn't really kind of hurt
• 1:00:09
  or belittle by it, Doug and Carries On Being dug and quite
• 1:00:12
  defiantly. There's that wonderful thing.
• 1:00:16
  The cafe is now between Ramona and Duncan where he got a whole
• 1:00:19
  range of emotions. Very happy sad and the way.
• 1:00:22
  Yeah. And the way, that the way they,
• 1:00:24
  the way they bicker is too good. Now, do I think?
• 1:00:26
  Because Duggan is enlightening. He's a very, very fun stereotype
• 1:00:30
  but for some I think it's just a tonal thing.
• 1:00:33
  Duggan isn't hurt by it but someone like Chris people with
• 1:00:36
  bit more interior already in depth, it's like, why are you
• 1:00:39
  being such an asshole to him? You know, just because he's
• 1:00:42
  because he's not one of you you know?
• 1:00:45
  This is a little bit of that again I'm not right?
• 1:00:47
  It's just a little sense. I get that there are there are
• 1:00:50
  wonderful things about the pairing of the fourth doctor and
• 1:00:53
  Ramana to but there are subtle problems with it.
• 1:01:01
  I think. Will you get the goal is to do
• 1:01:05
  honestly I think that's what it is.
• 1:01:17
  Sorry, carry on Cara. Now that one I was going to say
• 1:01:20
  you should just talk to sigh hard about the fourth doctor and
• 1:01:23
  Ramona because he was what or when he watched season 17 you
• 1:01:29
  know, he's never looked back and to this day, I think lalla Ward
• 1:01:33
  is the only doctor and he's met them.
• 1:01:36
  All, you know, is a picture of all of them and he's the only
• 1:01:40
  one that's reduced him to a blubbery mess when he went up a
• 1:01:43
  notch for the signature because she had such a profound effect
• 1:01:46
  on. It was The child.
• 1:01:47
  They're wonderful together, but it's, it can get a little, I
• 1:01:51
  think, I think it has the potential to get a bit much.
• 1:01:54
  But I'd prefer a monitor to then, to Ramon or one but Romano
• 1:01:58
  one's job is to needle the doctor and to be an oppositional
• 1:02:02
  Force who tolerates him barely. But by this, by this point,
• 1:02:06
  there's such an item that all there is left to do is break
• 1:02:11
  them apart dramatically. I think Wow.
• 1:02:16
  The temp. Doctor and Rose.
• 1:02:18
  You will ya again. Yeah, you know, I think
• 1:02:22
  Christopher name Is under playing this role for the most
• 1:02:27
  part. Now that I'm not talking about
• 1:02:29
  his costume, I've got but compared to some performances in
• 1:02:33
  this season, he's not chewing the scenery really, he's not
• 1:02:38
  he's not he's not, he's the skagerrak like I said, it's not
• 1:02:43
  I don't think Scag route whole can hold a candle to scholarly
• 1:02:48
  only / scare off but that's just on paper you know it's not a
• 1:02:54
  thing against them. Wonderful speeches.
• 1:02:56
  All, you know, he does he does. But I think I think it's, I
• 1:02:59
  think it's partly because he has a necessary degree of mystery to
• 1:03:03
  him. Maintain that thing is this guy
• 1:03:07
  Sally Aven that. We, we don't get to see much of
• 1:03:12
  him until later in the telling I suppose with scare off the, you
• 1:03:16
  know, we, you know, he's a, he's a brilliant Bond villain.
• 1:03:20
  Essentially, he's a far better Bond and the bond than the bond
• 1:03:24
  villain. Didn't go actually did play
• 1:03:25
  kristatos who's a very weak Source character, but yeah, the
• 1:03:31
  to the different types of character doing different
• 1:03:33
  dramatic jobs. So it is kind of wrong to
• 1:03:35
  compare them too closely. Right.
• 1:03:37
  But it's the the sky grow moment.
• 1:03:40
  I mean there's quite a few but the one I adore the most is
• 1:03:43
  where he laughs at the fact of why would I want to invade the
• 1:03:47
  Earth or something like you know that old place like that's
• 1:03:52
  that's far too small for what I'm saying.
• 1:03:54
  I love that. I love that.
• 1:03:55
  I think if there's a sort of discuss it when we get to it but
• 1:04:00
  they're sort of Goldfinger moments.
• 1:04:01
  That kind of, that kind of thing, is removed the gold.
• 1:04:04
  Why would I have no intention of removing it Mr. Bond, you know,
• 1:04:08
  yeah, it's like it's when you find out that the stakes are
• 1:04:11
  much, much worse than you assumed.
• 1:04:13
  It's always satisfying. Carriers only.
• 1:04:15
  It is only in this, and in city of death, among all the other
• 1:04:19
  villains, this season are just, you know, somewhere up in the
• 1:04:22
  stratosphere. Oh, yeah.
• 1:04:24
  I'd Astra Soul. Did he'd yes your wrist?
• 1:04:30
  They're all pretty. I know there are lots of
• 1:04:32
  apologists but they are all pretty damn shoddy, to be
• 1:04:34
  honest. But then you but then, you know,
• 1:04:37
  scatter is very good. We don't get to see much of him.
• 1:04:41
  Most of what we most of his stuff wasn't filmed his big
• 1:04:45
  scenes in this of the enemy in the animated sections.
• 1:04:48
  So we lose out on Probably the, you know, the big bits of
• 1:04:53
  crystalline Eames original performance that would never
• 1:04:56
  have been shot. Well, what I find interesting is
• 1:04:59
  in the big finish version that is quite an over-the-top
• 1:05:03
  performance. Yeah it's hit.
• 1:05:07
  Yeah Andrew Sachs is Skagway is a very different character.
• 1:05:11
  He's much more of a prim snide. Arrogant scientist.
• 1:05:15
  Yeah, he's got The Medallion, you know, he's still, he's still
• 1:05:20
  a, you know, a relatively young, you know, very cruelly,
• 1:05:23
  good-looking fella with a history.
• 1:05:29
  Yeah, I think I think he, he just he sees his character
• 1:05:32
  suffers a lot from the cancellation from the Shut down
• 1:05:35
  more than the others. Well, we're trapped inside a
• 1:05:39
  prison cell with Ramona and Chris, and canine, and we've
• 1:05:44
  been wandering around space corridors as they would say, in
• 1:05:47
  flight, for entirety, for a little while.
• 1:05:49
  Now, it, this is starting to look a bit like the rest of
• 1:05:52
  season 17. Yeah.
• 1:05:54
  And I think about now I'm starting to miss Cambridge.
• 1:06:00
  Just the little is the old little moment.
• 1:06:02
  Yeah. The must have with them when
• 1:06:04
  with Ramona and It's locked up in this story.
• 1:06:08
  I can't think when they're locked up together.
• 1:06:09
  It's like Ramada. This is this is your opportunity
• 1:06:12
  to actually in get ya gauge with Chris a bit as and she doesn't.
• 1:06:18
  And that's part of the problem. I think with Ramana doctor and
• 1:06:21
  the doctor at this point is that they're not going to have
• 1:06:24
  legitimate. Chemistry or any kind of
• 1:06:29
  legitimate rapport with a character like Chris, do you
• 1:06:32
  remember when crew notice was apparently dead on the floor
• 1:06:39
  after this Fierce? And she goes to Chris, you know,
• 1:06:41
  the professor isn't human, you know, as if he should know that.
• 1:06:45
  Yeah, yeah. It's that kind of stuff that I
• 1:06:49
  kind of think Ramona loses a few points for me in this.
• 1:06:52
  It's in the way. That she doesn't in city of
• 1:06:58
  death. But in this one it's I suppose
• 1:07:00
  because Chris and Claire are the first normal people.
• 1:07:04
  We've met in a very long time. Duggan is a trench coat, wearing
• 1:07:08
  person who only exists in French Thrillers did I mean you know
• 1:07:13
  Duggan's not a real person the way they're real people but also
• 1:07:16
  as well. Like we don't really go to
• 1:07:19
  modern day in the ground will 0 0.
• 1:07:22
  Very often do is it's very often in the future.
• 1:07:25
  Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 1:07:26
  Eyes like Tara, you know, sort of fit, Andre boss.
• 1:07:31
  Yeah, and yeah. And I think that gives you
• 1:07:33
  license to not Here's something I think went, if you, if you
• 1:07:39
  talk down to much to characters like Chris and Claire, it kind
• 1:07:43
  of gives you a bit of a clue at all.
• 1:07:45
  How would they treat me? Yeah, I think, I think that's.
• 1:07:50
  I think I know. Yeah, I'm starting to.
• 1:07:53
  Yeah, I'm starting to fucking guess.
• 1:07:55
  Yes. Yeah.
• 1:07:56
  Before this conversation, you know, I was rather hoping I
• 1:07:59
  could go on adventures with the fourth doctor and Ramana.
• 1:08:01
  But and he was not, they would do with luck, they would low-key
• 1:08:04
  bully you. That's, that's Just that just
• 1:08:07
  that is what life with them would be like, you know, break
• 1:08:12
  my heart. You really don't want to think
• 1:08:17
  that but it's just it's the impression that the more I watch
• 1:08:20
  Shard that the more I think. Oh yeah.
• 1:08:23
  Well, you know what? Yeah, she's angry because I
• 1:08:26
  think if you took away Romano put in Chris and Claire as
• 1:08:31
  companions, I could probably really work.
• 1:08:34
  It wouldn't it would do would do because Because the doctor in
• 1:08:38
  isolation can behave that way because he's you know, Sarah
• 1:08:45
  Jane Smith with Balkan for it. For example, you know his human
• 1:08:48
  companions, you know what won't tolerate that kind of behavior.
• 1:08:53
  But but like the 10th and row, is there kind of high up there
• 1:08:56
  high on each other? Those two You've had Scag ra.
• 1:09:01
  Take Romano into the Tardis now and you know, I think in 17
• 1:09:08
  there are a few moments where she, you know, this isn't dr.
• 1:09:13
  Companion anymore they're kind of like on an even Keel and in
• 1:09:18
  some places, she's running the show and he's just asking around
• 1:09:22
  doing something. So he's doing a lot of
• 1:09:24
  investigating in this, isn't he? But because Ramona is a Time
• 1:09:27
  lady because she can Sort of take control all the stuff in
• 1:09:32
  the Tardis is with her. Yeah.
• 1:09:34
  And and and in someone's like this and she Hoards of 91, you
• 1:09:41
  know, especially in was not. Yes, especially that one.
• 1:09:44
  It's the oh no E. I could totally lalla.
• 1:09:46
  Ward would have been a great doctor.
• 1:09:48
  I think it was some ways. She is where she comes out.
• 1:09:52
  The Tardis and confronts wrong. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:56
  The docks are in that scene, is it?
• 1:09:57
  And again, she's given a lot of the heavy lifting of stuff that
• 1:10:01
  traditionally would be the doctors.
• 1:10:04
  Because she's got all. She's got all the knowledge.
• 1:10:06
  He's got the training and lalla. Ward is just hands.
• 1:10:11
  Yeah. And, and it's an award as well.
• 1:10:13
  Yeah. So we're heading towards a
• 1:10:18
  cliffhanger. Now, you know, the, the doctor
• 1:10:20
  and the computer. And they're just such a such a
• 1:10:23
  Douglas Adams can seat, you know.
• 1:10:27
  I'll gyung with technology and Technology through its denseness
• 1:10:32
  getting the better of you, you know, it's it's just like every
• 1:10:34
  Lift, Every elevator, and door in hitchhikers.
• 1:10:38
  It's that same those same preoccupations coming through, I
• 1:10:44
  think technology and technobabble is never final,
• 1:10:51
  don't wait because I hate, I really hate talking about one
• 1:10:55
  space style, organ, I hate in starting.
• 1:10:58
  I love Star Trek but I hate how seriously I take it you know.
• 1:11:02
  And that was Adams is very quirky witty way of writing all
• 1:11:07
  of that. I really like there's not to it
• 1:11:10
  and also you've got think of you aware of what you're doing with
• 1:11:13
  it. I really detest Next Generation
• 1:11:15
  technobabble. You know, worst in the script.
• 1:11:18
  They would literally put insert technobabble.
• 1:11:22
  Yeah to get you out of something, it becomes,
• 1:11:25
  meaningless, meaningless action. Meaningless Revelation resulting
• 1:11:30
  in meaningless events occurring. Science Consultants would come
• 1:11:33
  in and just fill in the gaps in. Hey, yeah, but if you're going
• 1:11:38
  to do technobabble, do it to entertain and add Grace notes
• 1:11:41
  and flourishes and maybe lower chamber in part Planet, I guess.
• 1:11:47
  Yeah. That was the initial idea and
• 1:11:59
  then you work back from the whole point of doing it.
• 1:12:01
  Yeah. And yeah I just I think he's
• 1:12:06
  like what the conceptual geometer.
• 1:12:08
  Just the idea of that you know if it's just about the total
• 1:12:13
  perspective Vortex is one of the great things in all Scifi.
• 1:12:18
  Yeah. The Douglas Adams was had a
• 1:12:20
  genius for this stuff. He loved technology but he also
• 1:12:24
  knew how to write about it. In a kind of in this kind of
• 1:12:29
  context. And now you've got Claire who's
• 1:12:33
  effectively core notices companions, it companion Annie
• 1:12:37
  seems yes and look how much with much more kindness and respect
• 1:12:43
  crota streets, her compared to the way the doctrine companion.
• 1:12:47
  Treat everyone else, you know it's but yeah it's there are
• 1:12:51
  some definite mirroring going on here.
• 1:12:56
  I love how he pops out with that.
• 1:12:58
  So Scrooge pajama hat. Yeah, and it was a him being a
• 1:13:03
  still alive is again such a wonderful, energizing twist at
• 1:13:06
  this point in the story. I do have a no-hit somewhere
• 1:13:09
  Claire, and Chris a fit but it's just a Again, I'm not really
• 1:13:14
  feeling it right now but so it's a, my might yeah.
• 1:13:18
  So my opinions about whether whether I find them hot or not,
• 1:13:22
  even a change but I thought well, they are both hot.
• 1:13:26
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:13:27
  I thought someone made these notes.
• 1:13:32
  Just just illustrating that, you know, everything I think is
• 1:13:35
  built on shifting Sands people, so you know.
• 1:13:39
  It doesn't know I would get heads up if I think this should
• 1:13:41
  be a regeneration story, it's just an opinion we're coming
• 1:13:45
  for, you know, I'll be just like Claire in this you know pushing
• 1:13:48
  all these buttons in this study to see what happens.
• 1:13:52
  But never in my wildest dreams would I suspect that I'll be
• 1:13:55
  heading off into time and space but again it's it's it has that
• 1:13:59
  kind of freshness that Doctor Who had when it first began and
• 1:14:03
  due to having his his rooms at Cambridge being his Tardis.
• 1:14:07
  It's just wonderful. The light.
• 1:14:09
  You know I really love is we're not there yet.
• 1:14:12
  I love the shift in her performance, after he gives her
• 1:14:16
  the knowledge and how naturalistically she plays
• 1:14:20
  saying, the technobabble yaya is great.
• 1:14:24
  It's still kind of, you know, It's a dodgy thing he does
• 1:14:30
  because he is not, you know, this is actually I think this is
• 1:14:34
  something that is done very well in the, in the novel
• 1:14:38
  novelization. The whole idea of how good Sally
• 1:14:43
  Aven, / Canada's is, or isn't because the whole He such a nice
• 1:14:48
  old man, which is just a thing that gets mentioned a couple of
• 1:14:50
  times in this. Yeah, in being such a nice old
• 1:14:53
  man. Is in the book is it's he wields
• 1:15:00
  it like a weapon, it's an opinion.
• 1:15:03
  It's an opinion that he's too nice or maybe that that know
• 1:15:06
  that that's, that's it. He's putting that in your head.
• 1:15:11
  That and so it's in the book. The moral, ambiguity of crew
• 1:15:17
  notice is far more. It is strong?
• 1:15:21
  Yeah, tears. Because although we have
• 1:15:23
  although he gifts Claire with all this knowledge, he doesn't
• 1:15:27
  get consent for it. He doesn't know.
• 1:15:29
  And that's something that is very much criticized in the new
• 1:15:33
  series. Isn't it with a doctor plays?
• 1:15:35
  Those sort of games? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:37
  Because that's the thing and the book kind of, you know, the
• 1:15:40
  novelization it kind of doesn't it?
• 1:15:42
  It category runs with the observation that Crow notice is
• 1:15:46
  not a good guy. Yeah, and yet they don't really
• 1:15:51
  lean in too much here do. And I think it's primarily
• 1:15:54
  because Dennis carriers given such a Charming performance and
• 1:15:59
  this probably wasn't even a consideration, you know, the
• 1:16:02
  fact that it's problematic, it's just like oh no now we need to
• 1:16:05
  give clear the knowledge so she can help do the thing.
• 1:16:08
  You know, it's I don't think that was even I don't even think
• 1:16:11
  the implications of it even danced across their minds at the
• 1:16:15
  time, but it is, it still an invasion. her mind, you know,
• 1:16:20
  interestingly enough I did a commentary on a new series story
• 1:16:23
  yesterday that involved a criminal that was now doing
• 1:16:29
  benevolent acts and had revealed to be doing quite horrific stuff
• 1:16:33
  in the past and that was given a great deal of consideration in a
• 1:16:36
  town called mercy and those kind of different but it's
• 1:16:42
  essentially the same kind of thing but the emphasis is so
• 1:16:47
  different yeah, suppose that It's worth, you know, with these
• 1:16:51
  types of things. It's worth going back and
• 1:16:53
  exploring the same scenario in different ways from multiple
• 1:16:57
  angles of attack. And again, there being so many
• 1:17:01
  different versions of Sharda different versions of Sharda do.
• 1:17:04
  Just that, you know, and with a piece of Television, there's so
• 1:17:09
  many other things to consider and ultimately supposed to be
• 1:17:12
  entertaining, but, with a book you just have the capacity,
• 1:17:15
  don't use to give it those layers because you You have you
• 1:17:19
  have the room, you know, you don't have the time constraint
• 1:17:22
  with the prose fiction so it's yeah.
• 1:17:25
  That's the other thing that Sharda is a, it's a, it's a
• 1:17:30
  multimedia Doctor Who think there isn't one version.
• 1:17:33
  The original TV version was never seen the original TV.
• 1:17:37
  Version was never completed. It doesn't exist.
• 1:17:40
  We have, we have this excellent, new Revenue approximation and
• 1:17:45
  we've got an audio that we got. We got to where we got.
• 1:17:49
  No. Audio version, long shorter,
• 1:17:51
  audio version with flash animation, you have a novel we
• 1:17:55
  had and we have, we have more than one attempt that filling in
• 1:17:58
  the gaps of the of the original I'll be done with.
• 1:18:04
  Are we done with versions of Sharda?
• 1:18:06
  Anyway, I think we probably are, but make it Lego show.
• 1:18:09
  I don't think if this is going to be the last version.
• 1:18:12
  We see somehow, I don't know. They'll be a vinyl or something
• 1:18:16
  like that, you know. Yeah, you know as well as I do
• 1:18:20
  Doctor Who fans lap this stuff up.
• 1:18:22
  If they produce another version of shoulder will buy it.
• 1:18:25
  Yeah, but it's just in that way. It is there even, you know,
• 1:18:30
  shades of Sharda in In other works now.
• 1:18:33
  But I've said that already but it's just, yeah, it's so
• 1:18:35
  remarkable. It's just worth saying more than
• 1:18:37
  once. I, you know, I didn't want to
• 1:18:40
  interrupt you but we actually hit our Cliffhanger about 10
• 1:18:43
  minutes back. I thought this was going on
• 1:18:59
  the bus, can you? You have a better passing law
• 1:19:05
  into an episode of the dead men. Do not require oxygen because I
• 1:19:09
  think that is a terrific owl. Its innards.
• 1:19:13
  Yeah, that that is, that is, is that the best Cliffhanger in
• 1:19:16
  this? I think it's the clit.
• 1:19:18
  It's the, it's the cleverest. I think it's those Douglas Adams
• 1:19:22
  E. I can't, I don't think like you
• 1:19:25
  got the doctor being chased by the sphere, the crowd coming out
• 1:19:29
  them all. Like, I wish we talked about
• 1:19:31
  them, Because we do get a little glimpse into what they would
• 1:19:34
  have looked like and yes we do. We do.
• 1:19:38
  Yeah. And they're very season 17.
• 1:19:44
  But quite right too. We said we would we would pause
• 1:19:47
  here in the middle of this story and we will head back.
• 1:19:51
  Rob, I think you've done amazing work given no one else knows
• 1:19:54
  this. But I do you haven't actually
• 1:19:56
  been able to see any of the story we pick talking about.
• 1:19:59
  I don't need you give me enough cues as to roughly where we are
• 1:20:03
  and I can kind of guess the rest.
• 1:20:04
  It's all in Municipal. Yeah.
• 1:20:06
  But when you said to me before, you know I yeah I did think you
• 1:20:09
  were lying. Good grief but you said like,
• 1:20:11
  you know, you only watch these things.
• 1:20:15
  Till one, two, three times. And then they sit in your head.
• 1:20:18
  They really do know they. Yeah, there's not true of shards
• 1:20:21
  are in city of death, certain ones, I've watched a lot.
• 1:20:27
  Yeah, in fact we it's a one that you could like quote from
• 1:20:31
  beginning to end. I've got a few no, but there's a
• 1:20:34
  tweet of mine. Eye is a tweet thread.
• 1:20:36
  I retweet occasionally, this is a, this is a discussion for a
• 1:20:40
  different podcast, but I'll mention it very briefly.
• 1:20:43
  It's just the someone Tom stoppard did the of Rosencrantz
• 1:20:48
  and Guildenstern Are Dead, famous Etc.
• 1:20:51
  The great playwright, he did the final uncredited polish on
• 1:20:55
  Indiana A Jones and the Last Crusade want to really?
• 1:20:58
  Yeah. Yeah, that's that's what that's
• 1:20:59
  why it's so brilliant. That's not, that's why so,
• 1:21:03
  wonderfully funny, Tom stoppard polish but my if you watch city
• 1:21:09
  of death and Last Crusade back to back, Who is it?
• 1:21:14
  That there is so much city of death in Last Crusade and not,
• 1:21:18
  and I'm not just talking to Julian Glover, but yes, that
• 1:21:21
  sounds like a challenge. I'm going to do that but we pick
• 1:21:24
  this up again. Yeah, in fact, by the time that
• 1:21:26
  when this gets released that might be good, excuse for me to
• 1:21:28
  retweet my occasionally retweeted thread on the subject,
• 1:21:31
  but I'm going to come at you with a comparisons that is, you
• 1:21:34
  know that, oh, you know, please know, it's all, it's all there,
• 1:21:37
  it's all there but it's the number of similarities are
• 1:21:40
  shocking. What on that know?
• 1:21:44
  And everybody else. Kills, please feel free.
• 1:21:46
  If you're still here, if you are well, well done your your real
• 1:21:51
  trooper. Yes, excuse me, they lap this
• 1:21:54
  stuff up. I promise, we'll be back for the
• 1:21:57
  second half of Sharda of they'll put this out as two episodes.
• 1:22:03
  Any closing thoughts before we go?
• 1:22:06
  None. What's with my mind?
• 1:22:08
  Is it went? Well, thank you very much for
• 1:22:13
  your time tonight. I'll thank you.
• 1:22:14
  Thank you. I look forward to picking this
• 1:22:16
  up and I'm going to find a way so you can actually watch the
• 1:22:18
  second half. That would, that would, that
• 1:22:21
  would, that would help the commentary aspect all words.
• 1:22:27
  It will ya. Well, we'll find out.
• 1:22:29
  We'll find out. So I'll stop it there.
• 1:22:33
  I'm so sorry. I should have told you what we
• 1:22:35
  hear that? You a child away about solving.
• 1:22:39
  Keep this going. And I don't care.
• 1:22:40
  Let him go. He might, he might Tire
• 1:22:42
  eventually. Rob.
• 1:22:46
  Thank you so much. I don't know.
• 1:22:48
  My pleasure, buddy. Yeah.
• 1:22:49
  You bring a smart reading. Said he sings honestly.
• 1:22:53
  I'm very lucky. You tell me when it's good for
• 1:22:59
  yo, and please let me apologize for the other day.
• 1:23:04
  Oh, it's fine. It's fine.
• 1:23:05
  I'm not going. I don't go anywhere.
• 1:23:07
  It's fine, Jesus, I don't go anywhere one.
• 1:23:14
  I was, I was out, I went out to a friend's play in the pub on
• 1:23:19
  Tuesday night in that London or should it after I'm gonna do it.
• 1:23:24
  I'm gonna do a precautionary natural flow test after this.
• 1:23:26
  Just just, just be careful but right now I feel fine.
• 1:23:33
  It's just I'm paranoid. Healthfully But yeah, but I do
• 1:23:38
  do stuff. But you know, it's the don't
• 1:23:40
  worry about it, you know. It's a Movable Feast.
• 1:23:43
  Seriously, it's fine, a ticket and I know this is just a fun
• 1:23:46
  thing to do but I am particularly bad at this and
• 1:23:51
  some people are less forgiving Juno and you say you think I
• 1:23:54
  would get better but hit me with like another day and oh yeah,
• 1:23:58
  sure next week on a Wednesday or Thursday evening might be fine
• 1:24:05
  Wednesday, if you Can do Wednesday.
• 1:24:07
  I'm off Wednesday. Oh cool.
• 1:24:09
  Then yeah, I can do Wednesday. I can put that on my wall
• 1:24:11
  calendar. I have electronic things, but
• 1:24:15
  pain and wall calendar. I'm very analog in this quite
• 1:24:18
  terrible but yeah, I could do we are working to my design so bad.
• 1:24:21
  It's now I just I noticed I came in tonight and there is a new
• 1:24:25
  calendar, on the fridge. Ah, supposed Hussein use it.
• 1:24:31
  Use it. That's it.
• 1:24:34
  Oh, you'll have no friends. You know, that's what you should
• 1:24:37
  have hurt but yeah, it's Wednesday, sounds great.
• 1:24:40
  If you can do the same sort of time.
• 1:24:42
  Oh yeah, Wednesday 7:30. Yeah, yeah, perfect.
• 1:24:46
  I'll be brilliant fabulous. Good stuff.
• 1:24:48
  All right, I'm going to head to bed because I'm knackered only.
• 1:24:52
  Yeah. You feel like you've had a busy
• 1:24:53
  one. Have a great weekend.
• 1:24:55
  Yeah, I'm up at 6:00 and get some rest.
• 1:25:01
  Go get some rest. Okay bye for now.
• 1:25:05
  See one. Hello Rob.
• 1:25:10
  Hello Joe are you doing? Yeah, I'm fine.
• 1:25:13
  Thanks long time. No see it's good.
• 1:25:16
  It's good to be back. Was that a bit of a gap between
• 1:25:20
  the first? I guess?
• 1:25:21
  Yeah. The animated Edition and the
• 1:25:24
  second half of Charles Daddy and of.
• 1:25:25
  Yeah. I'll fight it starts that we've
• 1:25:28
  both had a busy old time of it. So it's nice to actually to kind
• 1:25:32
  of, you know, have a bit of downtime and going back to
• 1:25:37
  shoulder with you. I've been fired, be fine,
• 1:25:39
  working a lot writing a lot doing a They're produced re in
• 1:25:44
  script editing type Shenanigans but yeah, a little little break.
• 1:25:49
  Now is very much needed. I think I should know that I've
• 1:25:52
  been listening to half your output.
• 1:25:53
  You know what they haffi all of it.
• 1:25:55
  I think. Yeah a lot of stuff has come out
• 1:25:58
  this year but I still got, I've still got a few things to come
• 1:26:00
  out. It's been quite a lot of stuff
• 1:26:04
  I'm holding. You personally responsible for
• 1:26:06
  the fact that my bank account at the end of the month, is looking
• 1:26:09
  a little dry. All right, that's why I bet I
• 1:26:12
  will I'll take that one on the chair.
• 1:26:15
  Are you real? Okay, so we left Sharda at the
• 1:26:20
  Midway point where Tom Baker, have been bamboozled by scabbers
• 1:26:26
  computer. Yes.
• 1:26:29
  Yeah well that's the computer, got a name, Ship time.
• 1:26:38
  I think that shit. It's just the computer.
• 1:26:40
  I think very, very clever. Douglas Adams Cliffhanger, you
• 1:26:44
  know, which is it the best of it of the story?
• 1:26:46
  I am might be, you know, it might be this isn't I don't find
• 1:26:50
  I don't really think this is a story for Cliffhangers
• 1:26:53
  particularly much you get menaced by balls a bit.
• 1:27:00
  That's and that's about it, you know?
• 1:27:01
  So this is actually this is the I think This is the cleverest
• 1:27:03
  one, if you don't enjoy being menaced by balls, if you'll
• 1:27:06
  forgive me. Well, this is true.
• 1:27:08
  This is true that my be a terrifying Prospect.
• 1:27:11
  In fact, we did talk about this earlier at that.
• 1:27:13
  So we're going to try, not to repeat ourselves because we are
• 1:27:16
  going in after having been an hour and a half.
• 1:27:19
  Almost already talkin about this story, but I listen to it today.
• 1:27:22
  So I think I've got a good idea of where we've been.
• 1:27:25
  Yeah. So if I keep going round in
• 1:27:27
  circles. So Rob you've been there, move
• 1:27:29
  on now, I will try You one of the nicest places, you know, I
• 1:27:36
  cannot be rude to you Rob, but one thing we did say, was that
• 1:27:43
  the ball itself and the act of being menaced.
• 1:27:46
  By it was not particularly suspenseful even though it's
• 1:27:49
  still a wonderful Visual and a great idea.
• 1:27:53
  It's maybe not the way to end / soaked.
• 1:27:56
  That's all, that's all I'm saying.
• 1:27:57
  Yeah, and the last thing I would say before we head into the
• 1:28:01
  story, is that That Robert Valentine is the most patient.
• 1:28:05
  Man I have ever met. There's a bit of
• 1:28:09
  behind-the-scenes now. He somehow managed to cause I'll
• 1:28:12
  edit that bit out where you pointed at pointed out to me
• 1:28:14
  that you could not. In fact, see the story we were
• 1:28:17
  watching in the first half, he's watched all of Greater China,
• 1:28:20
  Galaxy half of Sharda but he has what he hasn't watched a single
• 1:28:25
  second of any of it. He's just talked about it from
• 1:28:27
  memory and Bravo to you sir. So I would not be able to tell
• 1:28:30
  listening back well, Fine. Well, it's nice to actually go
• 1:28:34
  to see it this time, because I can't actually watch it.
• 1:28:37
  But if that was fine, I think. Really think that was kind of,
• 1:28:41
  you know, what, it would affect the content.
• 1:28:43
  Any. Yeah, but it's nice that he
• 1:28:46
  seems to be up here. Yeah, just yet.
• 1:28:51
  Sorry again you cut it, like one of those cats have a second day.
• 1:28:55
  That must mean a lot of like your experience of Doctor Who is
• 1:28:58
  up here and your haters. Yes, it is.
• 1:29:01
  Yeah, I don't watch it very much, you know, it's there.
• 1:29:06
  So yeah, it was it was, you know, it was fairly painless for
• 1:29:09
  me, but this time I get to kind of admire some of this gorgeous
• 1:29:13
  animation, which I do appreciate.
• 1:29:15
  Yeah, one last tiny question there.
• 1:29:17
  Before we go in, this is go for it.
• 1:29:19
  Go for it being intrigued, do you watch any Doctor, Who for
• 1:29:23
  research purposes? When you, because you bounced
• 1:29:25
  around a lot of different doctors and Companions and big
• 1:29:28
  food? Yes, I do.
• 1:29:29
  Are you do for that? Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:31
  I watch Doctor Who for work these days, you know.
• 1:29:34
  And so if If, if I have to do anything, for example, like
• 1:29:40
  script editor series for bamburgh, I watch, I not only
• 1:29:43
  watch battlefield, but I pull it to pieces.
• 1:29:47
  I, I go, I get forensic on the map.
• 1:29:51
  Marc Platt novelization and I put, yeah, I take out every
• 1:29:56
  little detail I can. But otherwise, yeah, I, it's not
• 1:30:01
  something I tend to revisit hugely.
• 1:30:04
  It's just just the way I am. Yeah, you ain't being paid for
• 1:30:07
  this. So, this is entirely for
• 1:30:08
  pleasure. All right, just for fun.
• 1:30:11
  Joe, this is for fun with you with me, Friday, and I'm so,
• 1:30:14
  sorry about that. All right, I got you the big
• 1:30:18
  draw. Oh sure, you're the big draw.
• 1:30:21
  Goodness me. Yes, let's do it.
• 1:30:24
  So that's kind of Sharda, shall we?
• 1:30:26
  Let's Okay. Only you can has ain't gold.
• 1:30:30
  Sure. Okay.
• 1:30:31
  Five, four, three, two, one, I was saying earlier that I don't
• 1:30:40
  think obviously there is a little bit jarring when the
• 1:30:43
  animation first hits in Sharda, I watched the latter half of
• 1:30:47
  this earlier and the second half of shoulder is where a lot of
• 1:30:51
  the film material is missing. Yeah, and the animation is vital
• 1:30:56
  for telling a story, you didn't get anywhere that Tom Baker, VHS
• 1:30:59
  release, where you just cut back to him saying about three
• 1:31:02
  sentences instead of having like four seasons.
• 1:31:05
  Yes. It's vital this animation.
• 1:31:09
  Oh yeah. Oh because it was a lot of that
• 1:31:10
  stuff was in that it was in that block and you know it's a shame
• 1:31:14
  in a way that we miss Sky grows big scene with Ramana but it's
• 1:31:22
  still pretty damn good here and I and all this animation is
• 1:31:26
  really lovely in the sets. The lighting you know the
• 1:31:31
  working on it. All looks gorgeous in a way that
• 1:31:34
  it might not have actually done. Done in studio.
• 1:31:38
  Well, that was something I wanted to ask you because this
• 1:31:39
  is a we didn't cover earlier. I'm that is.
• 1:31:42
  Do you think the animations should be authentic to how it
• 1:31:46
  was? Or do you think this is a chance
• 1:31:49
  for them to show it how it should have been?
• 1:31:51
  Or could have been? I think it's I kind of think
• 1:31:55
  this isn't really, this isn't we're not they're not trying to
• 1:31:58
  reconstruct something that has been lost here.
• 1:32:01
  This isn't an exercise in reconstruction where I think
• 1:32:05
  that's a different duty. This one is creating something
• 1:32:09
  that never existed in the First place so I think no, no.
• 1:32:14
  Just just go For Broke and make it wonderful.
• 1:32:19
  Yeah, it's a different. It's a different thing
• 1:32:21
  altogether. What kind of a question for you,
• 1:32:22
  then when they shot her at the end of this and I, we ain't
• 1:32:25
  there anywhere near there yet. But why the hell didn't they
• 1:32:28
  feel that prison full of fabulous?
• 1:32:30
  Old Doctor Who monsters said? He said I drew a lot of the we
• 1:32:32
  get to see. That's a really good question.
• 1:32:35
  If I'm sure I've read somewhere at some time about the, the
• 1:32:40
  aliens. They And on having it but I have
• 1:32:43
  no idea. I have no idea.
• 1:32:46
  Okay. Now I have had questions thrown
• 1:32:49
  at me via Twitter throughout the day.
• 1:32:51
  You were tagged in now, so you cannot not be aware of the fact
• 1:32:54
  that people that are have questions for you.
• 1:32:57
  Oh no, no, I like this bit now. Go for it, go for it.
• 1:33:00
  Well, one question that was thrown at me and I do want to
• 1:33:02
  ask about is from Nathan. Bottomley, from flight for
• 1:33:06
  entirety. Only another podcast for me
• 1:33:10
  though, he asked is the second half of this.
• 1:33:16
  Story just an exercise of wandering around corridors.
• 1:33:20
  Is this the week apart of shorter?
• 1:33:22
  Yes. Oh yeah.
• 1:33:24
  It will you answer that very quickly because it is yeah in my
• 1:33:28
  head when I think of Sharda I think of Cambridge and Yeah,
• 1:33:33
  it's in my head. I shorter is better in my memory
• 1:33:38
  than it. The experience of watching it
• 1:33:39
  is, I think this is, but this is when we did greatest show, I
• 1:33:42
  think I intimated that that's kind of my feeling.
• 1:33:47
  Think about it. Yeah, sometimes I'll entertain
• 1:33:51
  the idea that it's better than city of death.
• 1:33:52
  But it isn't the city of there is superior work and I think
• 1:33:58
  it's partly because by taking 2 episode 5, there's a lot of
• 1:34:03
  digging about, you know, it's hot.
• 1:34:05
  I recognize that as I was watching this earlier, Bart was
• 1:34:09
  so many Charming moment. Still, there's so many great
• 1:34:12
  lines. There are great Notions.
• 1:34:14
  They were fantastic. Individual seems I was like,
• 1:34:17
  There's enough here to rob me through.
• 1:34:19
  Oh, absolutely. And that there is, there is, but
• 1:34:23
  if I, if I do zone out any time in this or become less engaged,
• 1:34:28
  it's in the second half. You got the gorgeous Victoria.
• 1:34:33
  Well, this is true and I'm going gasps.
• 1:34:35
  Good boy. Vocal Grill, going?
• 1:34:37
  Yes, I was extremely aware of how beautiful she was in the
• 1:34:41
  second half of this where we get most of her scenes with her.
• 1:34:43
  We didn't see much of her in the first after we know because
• 1:34:47
  again, I think she is mostly animated in the first half.
• 1:34:51
  I think it's, you know, the way the way the cards fall of scenes
• 1:34:54
  that people get, she's largely absent from the first half when
• 1:34:58
  they're looking at the book. And we get all her stuff with
• 1:35:01
  Crow. Notice here.
• 1:35:03
  Yeah. But no.
• 1:35:04
  No. She's yeah.
• 1:35:06
  She's rather gorgeous. Isn't she actually, she is.
• 1:35:08
  Yeah. Yeah, I don't usually know, is
• 1:35:10
  that sort of thing. So, I'm, I'm noticing then.
• 1:35:12
  He must be very pretty indeed. This idea of his rooms turning
• 1:35:18
  into his Tardis. Come on.
• 1:35:20
  That is delicious. Yes, no, it really is it really
• 1:35:23
  is Yeah. No, that's how are things going
• 1:35:28
  on. What about the choke of Wilkin
• 1:35:31
  and and the missing room because he does have a rather explosive
• 1:35:35
  reaction later on of the room that vanished.
• 1:35:40
  Oh yeah, it's a fun little subplot that really just exists
• 1:35:44
  to to give us the rather lovely ending to all this again which I
• 1:35:49
  adore but if it's pretty good back in Cambridge again.
• 1:35:51
  But yeah, it's he's a He's a good guy.
• 1:35:55
  He's a good character and I think it's definitely a new
• 1:36:00
  effect that you know. We open the door.
• 1:36:02
  Yes. In a new effect than looks
• 1:36:04
  cheaper than the old one that sort of billowing glittery
• 1:36:07
  cousin and I don't mind a bit of overdoing it to camera.
• 1:36:11
  So I'm all over that style of acting.
• 1:36:16
  So it's completely appropriate, it's completely appropriate.
• 1:36:20
  I've got a question for you about scattergraph.
• 1:36:24
  Christopher name. Do you imagine?
• 1:36:26
  Because I wonder if Christian performance.
• 1:36:31
  Well, I wonder a lot of things about every special that out
• 1:36:34
  though. I wonder if his a performers
• 1:36:36
  would be as underplayed as it is as a voiceover, in the
• 1:36:39
  animation, had it been filmed at the time because I don't think
• 1:36:45
  he's not armed. Mad ranting.
• 1:36:46
  He's not a lady. A dash dry.
• 1:36:47
  He's not a scholarly. Oh no.
• 1:36:54
  Well the way he's no scaglione but I think it's fine.
• 1:36:59
  Yeah well I think we miss a lot of his stuff he seems to be
• 1:37:03
  playing it. You know like I think we said
• 1:37:05
  last time he's kind of like Julian glow that his kid brother
• 1:37:09
  but yeah I mean he's not that an interesting villain he is you
• 1:37:15
  know, he's dressed in white but he Is a black hat.
• 1:37:20
  There's not much interiority. I think that there's no interior
• 1:37:22
  do with them. He hasn't yet and he doesn't
• 1:37:24
  have a countess scaglione to hang out with.
• 1:37:28
  He's got the computer but he's got the crog's.
• 1:37:31
  But as he's done, Ramona for most of the second half of this,
• 1:37:34
  there's just less there is there is less going on with him than
• 1:37:38
  there is. Is with scare off.
• 1:37:43
  Well, that's, that's Julian's. Lover as well.
• 1:37:45
  Roll precisely precisely, but he's still, you know, I think
• 1:37:49
  he's a absolutely adequate villain.
• 1:37:52
  I don't know if they're faint. Praise.
• 1:37:53
  That's not right, that's not fair.
• 1:37:55
  But we then again, we miss. We miss a lot of his original
• 1:38:00
  performance because they never shot it.
• 1:38:02
  So, I mean, he's hot on the heels of tryst and sold, eat,
• 1:38:07
  you know, so it's quite easy to be forgettable after that.
• 1:38:09
  A Punch. Yeah, well, I wouldn't say it's
• 1:38:12
  forgettable. I just don't think he that's
• 1:38:15
  good. He's not forgettable.
• 1:38:17
  He's not memorable. It's like right here.
• 1:38:21
  I wish I liked the thing. I remember about him.
• 1:38:24
  It's just that moment where he mocks the concept of wanting to
• 1:38:28
  take over the universe and just go, that's lovely.
• 1:38:31
  The universe will be me. I just think that's a gray,
• 1:38:34
  lying. That's think really what he is.
• 1:38:37
  He is a, he's a vessel for Douglas Adams design.
• 1:38:39
  Is really I think, I think the reason that scaglione is so good
• 1:38:46
  is because there's so much of the Pink Panther in there and
• 1:38:49
  there's just a lot going on and it's Earth set and he's, you
• 1:38:52
  know, he's married, but clearly, they're not doing it, you know,
• 1:38:58
  there's just you know this is this is more going on with that
• 1:39:01
  one with with with, with Scag, right?
• 1:39:03
  He is there to kind of be an idea, you know, that's, you
• 1:39:07
  know, and it's a good idea. I mean I'm You know?
• 1:39:10
  Yeah, I did a commentary recently for talents or Wang
• 1:39:12
  Chong Yang and we were talking about Magnus grew and that and
• 1:39:16
  how but even those well played, he's not the most memorable of
• 1:39:21
  those who villains but there's so much in that story going on
• 1:39:24
  around him. There's so many layers, there's
• 1:39:26
  not, there's not that well played, he's not, there's so
• 1:39:29
  much visual richness, but that's what I meant.
• 1:39:31
  But we've scaglione I think the character and the performance is
• 1:39:35
  also Sublime. That's just yeah.
• 1:39:38
  Also. Yeah, I mean Gareth has skin in
• 1:39:44
  the game as well, you know, he's he's vulnerable, he's he's, he's
• 1:39:48
  under pressure. He's stressed, he's fearful,
• 1:39:51
  there's that. There are things going on with
• 1:39:52
  him Scag ra is Christopher name being evil?
• 1:39:58
  He's a little OneNote, isn't he? Yeah, that's that's big.
• 1:40:01
  That's that's not Chris Williams fault.
• 1:40:03
  That's just the. That's what's written.
• 1:40:05
  You know, he's Then again, we're you know I think there is that
• 1:40:10
  there is a kind of some underlying kind of neuroticism
• 1:40:14
  with him and we and you get that at the very end when he's
• 1:40:17
  finally trapped spoilers but like it would have been nice if
• 1:40:23
  we just got a little bit more of his pathology.
• 1:40:26
  He's most interesting in the novel, in the novel adaptation,
• 1:40:33
  because week because we get we get to just buy.
• 1:40:36
  But just, by virtue of the fact that it's very well written
• 1:40:39
  prose fiction. We get things from the inside of
• 1:40:42
  his head, which we don't do in this.
• 1:40:44
  And we can't really get much glimpses, many glimpses into it
• 1:40:47
  because he hasn't got any one he talks to You know, Converse and
• 1:40:52
  Lee, you know, at the chill out of choice, you know.
• 1:40:55
  So yeah, he that he lacks interiority and see your death.
• 1:41:01
  He's got exterior receipt because he stands there, talking
• 1:41:03
  to himself, revealing his layers off the time.
• 1:41:06
  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:41:07
  Very true. Very true or here we are here.
• 1:41:09
  We have the big scheme being explained where gradually he's
• 1:41:15
  going to become one. Every sentient being Universe
• 1:41:21
  will become him and they will be one universal mind.
• 1:41:25
  Which is it was fairly. It was a fairly current Jesse
• 1:41:30
  and the time in it. Well that now that they're
• 1:41:35
  literally double that's cut. That's literally.
• 1:41:37
  That's literally they turn into the master, but but it's not
• 1:41:42
  dissimilar. It doesn't dissimilar, it's just
• 1:41:44
  hate. You know, why is it is
• 1:41:46
  different? And I applaud that, you know,
• 1:41:50
  Amy could have just been another ranting villain wanted to take
• 1:41:52
  over the universe and we've been there a few times.
• 1:41:56
  Yeah, but it's a clever way of having a ranting villain.
• 1:42:00
  Who wants to do something with Universe again?
• 1:42:05
  And but just doing it in a way that keeps Douglas interested in
• 1:42:08
  what he's writing. That's kind of, that's kind of
• 1:42:11
  what's going on. I reckon what are we doing after
• 1:42:14
  all the crog's, now, that they benefit from the animation
• 1:42:17
  considerably because the live-action krog that we see in
• 1:42:21
  this, well, I'll say this is on par with the other monsters in
• 1:42:25
  season 17. They would have terrified me at
• 1:42:27
  the age of seven, utterly terrifying, what?
• 1:42:29
  The ones that the physical one that you see in this, the
• 1:42:33
  cleaners terrified me, So after all, I used to know.
• 1:42:43
  And so I will they well. And well.
• 1:42:45
  Yeah, that's that's just answer the Bruce, okay.
• 1:42:51
  I'm going to hit you another question because I've got quite
• 1:42:53
  a few it, you know. No, good.
• 1:42:54
  Go for it. Go for it.
• 1:42:55
  Hi, Andy. Parkinson, wonderful.
• 1:42:58
  A new Parkinson's at Caffrey's 71?
• 1:43:00
  Ask? Why if you are keeping your ship
• 1:43:03
  invisible, do you. Then stick a piece of red carpet
• 1:43:06
  by the steps. Style glamour.
• 1:43:10
  Joy self-esteem, you know, style Dal, help out yeah.
• 1:43:15
  Healthy sense of healthy sense of self worth.
• 1:43:18
  That's why you do that because no one's going to see the
• 1:43:20
  carpet. But they're going to they're
• 1:43:21
  going to But a spaceship from like miles away, you know, also
• 1:43:26
  a bit of alcohol guilt, don't question it.
• 1:43:31
  Yeah but from a personal point of view well it's just makes you
• 1:43:34
  feel good, doesn't it? But you know rolling out the red
• 1:43:37
  carpet for yourself and this is that this is kind of like a
• 1:43:41
  subjective and so you're going to have to give me here and you
• 1:43:45
  kind of touched on this a little bit in the first half, but let
• 1:43:47
  me just ask you anyway, which is the best version of this story
• 1:43:51
  and oh, and he's being a bit. Objective here.
• 1:43:54
  Why is it the Tom Baker version? Which tombow conversion, what I
• 1:44:00
  think he's talking about their VHS with the calf McCulloch
• 1:44:02
  music. Oh, I see, I see.
• 1:44:05
  Okay, well, I'm not the one to make versions of this.
• 1:44:10
  Okay. The one we watching right now?
• 1:44:12
  Yeah, it's yeah. It's it's the only way to answer
• 1:44:16
  the question. What's the question?
• 1:44:18
  What's the bet? What's the best version of
• 1:44:19
  Sharda set, right? Okay, I'm not going to fall for
• 1:44:22
  the and is it and why is that the topic 1?
• 1:44:26
  It's what. Okay, Sharda does not never did
• 1:44:31
  exist, it is never finished. So sharded doesn't exist.
• 1:44:34
  Everything is an attempt to reach Sharda the can, the
• 1:44:38
  totality But all of them are failures because you can't, you
• 1:44:42
  can't go back and film. You can't go.
• 1:44:47
  Back to the too late seventies and film it.
• 1:44:49
  So, what you do is you watch every single version exists, you
• 1:44:53
  listen to every version exists. You read the book or you listen
• 1:44:57
  to other was reading the book and then once you've consumed
• 1:44:59
  every single version, what happens in your head, you know,
• 1:45:02
  just thinking the version in your head is then the best
• 1:45:05
  version of chartres. That's it.
• 1:45:08
  Okay. Now, that's a very broad answer
• 1:45:10
  to that question. What is your personal your
• 1:45:13
  personal favorite version? I love the one, we're watching
• 1:45:17
  the most recent version, but I'm also a huge fan of the big
• 1:45:21
  finish one with palm again. I think that's a really clever.
• 1:45:24
  I love them. Music in that one.
• 1:45:25
  I think, I think, I think that's the best gag where, you know,
• 1:45:28
  Rob is campers, hell is amazing best?
• 1:45:30
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's really, he's really pretty
• 1:45:34
  and he's loving it. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:45:37
  So I, but again, I was thinking about this the other day in
• 1:45:42
  terms of who's the best James Bond, who's the best doctor,
• 1:45:46
  which is the best version of whatever, it's the same, what's
• 1:45:48
  the best? What is the best seating
• 1:45:51
  position? It's the one you want to move to
• 1:45:53
  next. That's the truth of it.
• 1:45:55
  There isn't, you know it's it's where it's whatever you want to
• 1:45:58
  move. Go to whatever you in the mood
• 1:46:00
  for, you know, so that's ink is never worth asking that question
• 1:46:03
  and you another move question what's the question to ask?
• 1:46:08
  Because it has an answer but But that's that's the purpose of
• 1:46:16
  questions. But there is a fallacy within
• 1:46:19
  the question I think that's I think Colin Baker's right though
• 1:46:22
  as well. In that sometimes you're just
• 1:46:24
  doing a disservice to everything else by having her.
• 1:46:27
  I've never had a best friend. I like a lot of people say they
• 1:46:29
  got a best friend and I've never said, I've got a best friend
• 1:46:32
  cause I feel that's kind of doing a disservice to the rest
• 1:46:34
  of my friends, you know? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:46:37
  And it's, I kind of think. Yeah.
• 1:46:40
  It's sometimes sometimes, you know, Writing lists marking
• 1:46:44
  things out of 10 rating. Stuff is it's it's a way to make
• 1:46:48
  sense of the world but it's kind of inherently reductive.
• 1:46:53
  So yeah, calling the best, the worst you know is it's usually
• 1:46:58
  subjective. Anyway, you can see what your
• 1:46:59
  favorite is, you know, all your favorite, what your favorite is
• 1:47:02
  right now. But I've got very few favorites
• 1:47:05
  of anything that don't change and that's the other reason I'm
• 1:47:07
  kind of. You know there's no right answer
• 1:47:09
  to that is because well asked me today.
• 1:47:11
  It won't be the same answer tomorrow.
• 1:47:13
  You know. That's a good answer and we're
• 1:47:17
  brighter but I do think Sharda is a fascinating case.
• 1:47:20
  A sin that there is no what the r is, no ultimate Sharda, you
• 1:47:24
  know. And we get to have a musical but
• 1:47:27
  we could be. Could that?
• 1:47:28
  Yeah, actually. Are we actually?
• 1:47:29
  I might, I speak in ignorance. Is there a musical shorter?
• 1:47:33
  What they should be, but I've not seen the in Levine version,
• 1:47:36
  but I can imagine he's got that much of a sense of humor.
• 1:47:38
  So, I mean, Fraser Gregory here. Typically pernickety says that
• 1:47:44
  there will be no definitive version of Sharda until we see
• 1:47:48
  the version with puppets. Which are we down to watch?
• 1:47:52
  Well I approve a version of chard with puppets and what that
• 1:47:56
  would do. That would just contribute to to
• 1:48:00
  the kind of the The Venn diagram, which of, you know,
• 1:48:04
  different shot of their instant where they overlap is kind of,
• 1:48:07
  you know, it's the shadow will never reach.
• 1:48:09
  But yeah, I'd be, I'd be up for a sock puppet version quite
• 1:48:12
  require 24, Adams thing you could ever do to the production
• 1:48:17
  of a doctor, whose story is not finish it and have all these
• 1:48:20
  bloody splinters and variations occurring, you know, oh yeah,
• 1:48:25
  that's in a weird way Sharda is, you know, has been split into 12
• 1:48:29
  and spread across time. Okay, well I'm going to bring us
• 1:48:35
  back to the action very quickly. Oh yes.
• 1:48:36
  Sure. Charming scenes between Oakwood
• 1:48:39
  of cotton and I'm Claire and the professor who for some reason is
• 1:48:43
  dressed up like Scrooge from A Christmas Carol is he looks
• 1:48:46
  great, but these are the sins that they've shot, are they?
• 1:48:49
  So these are the things we get. Another are the ones in his
• 1:48:52
  study. Yep.
• 1:48:56
  Every time where y from this set or the think tank corridors all
• 1:49:01
  the the very ancient scientists. Then it's all it's all
• 1:49:06
  animation. I love those things as well.
• 1:49:10
  And we get these little Snippets.
• 1:49:13
  From Skagway is point of view, which I loved these.
• 1:49:17
  These little inserts jar wasn't thinking about early, you know,
• 1:49:20
  the it's Andrew Sachs who plays him in the big finish version.
• 1:49:23
  It is. Yes.
• 1:49:25
  You know, he is for having sort of such a larger-than-life
• 1:49:29
  character. He's a lot more enjoyable to
• 1:49:32
  experience. Yeah, I think I think Andrew
• 1:49:35
  Sachs is skag. Ra is the best.
• 1:49:38
  Well maybe nimes a name should have him hand it up a bit then
• 1:49:42
  you know maybe he should have chewed the scenery.
• 1:49:44
  I mean he had the costume for it, although I think he he's
• 1:49:48
  he's doing what he does with it. He's bloody good actor, but he's
• 1:49:52
  very good at playing baddies but I just I just kind of think that
• 1:49:59
  Andrew Sachs kind of plays him kind of bitter angry prissy.
• 1:50:06
  You know, you can kind of, you know, that there's a angry that
• 1:50:10
  ligo at work there in him. I just think it's revised me of
• 1:50:13
  it. Reminds me of a man, you know,
• 1:50:15
  who's sent his picture out on Grindr too many times and have
• 1:50:18
  been blocked. That's a sort of yeah, anger,
• 1:50:22
  that you've got. Because Scott growing Christian
• 1:50:28
  name. He's quite young.
• 1:50:30
  So you can think he's a, you know, young arrogant.
• 1:50:33
  You know, it's kind of slightly Nazi ask asshole.
• 1:50:38
  Clearly Psychopathic. But yeah, the, the big finish
• 1:50:43
  one. He's kind of he's older.
• 1:50:44
  You cannot, you can kind of imagine the kind of the life of,
• 1:50:48
  you know, anger a lifetime of lack of respect.
• 1:50:53
  So the like the rescue say there's no that here in detail
• 1:50:56
  is there? No no it's they can doing
• 1:50:59
  classic Coke. Didn't always go back to is that
• 1:51:03
  Feller in Terror of the autons who's not easily, not even the
• 1:51:06
  villain. He's like the side henchmen
• 1:51:08
  played by Michael Wisher and he gets that line.
• 1:51:10
  There's no need to bring father into this and it just says
• 1:51:13
  everything you need to know. Yeah.
• 1:51:15
  All you need, that's what? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:51:17
  I think part of the problem with Scarecrow is that necessarily
• 1:51:22
  for the first Half. There is all that mystery about
• 1:51:25
  who he is because they want you to think.
• 1:51:28
  He might be selling it all. They want you to think he is
• 1:51:31
  Sally. Avian until they until they no
• 1:51:33
  longer wish you to think that it we though I never have.
• 1:51:37
  No I can't. I can't remember if I was ever
• 1:51:39
  did. It's one of those things that
• 1:51:40
  will only work on the first Watch what I can't remember if
• 1:51:44
  that worked on the first watch for me, I wanted.
• 1:51:46
  But that is what they're doing. Had this been for they could
• 1:51:49
  have played with that bit more because at six you're right
• 1:51:53
  about hot bout was it episode for?
• 1:51:55
  They just give up on the notion and kind of reveal chronometers
• 1:51:59
  having Sally avens Powers, so bang there's your twist
• 1:52:03
  revealed. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 1:52:05
  Do you know what you mean? That VHS came out with the the
• 1:52:08
  script book, remember a little blue book that came, I don't
• 1:52:11
  remember what it Did, but I'm aware of that.
• 1:52:13
  Okay, well, he did right and irritating me.
• 1:52:16
  I open the book on the last page and it said, the professor was
• 1:52:20
  Sally, a van all along. I was like Sykes.
• 1:52:23
  Well, they put watching that now is there.
• 1:52:25
  It doesn't really matter. Can I ask you?
• 1:52:28
  I'm not too sure. Will you think about season 18,
• 1:52:32
  right? I mean, I think you like a lot
• 1:52:35
  dogs hate. So you probably liked it but I
• 1:52:37
  find the shift from horns of nyberg's of the Leisure Hive
• 1:52:42
  extremely jarring like in tone in production, value, blah,
• 1:52:47
  blah. Do you think if this had been
• 1:52:49
  inserted between the two of them?
• 1:52:51
  It would have made a more gentle transition.
• 1:52:56
  No, I think I think it's huge tonal.
• 1:52:59
  Whiplash between 1718 some byproduct of press this already.
• 1:53:05
  But on sometimes I kind of think what chardin might imagine.
• 1:53:10
  Making sure do his regeneration already say that.
• 1:53:12
  Yeah but it's a point worth saying you know, good luck.
• 1:53:15
  No I like I do. I like she's 19, she's natives
• 1:53:18
  got a couple of things. I really admire and love in it.
• 1:53:22
  Warriors gate State of Decay but it's also So, kind of the
• 1:53:26
  beginning of, for me, kind of Doctor Who going on the wonk for
• 1:53:30
  several years until Andrew cartmel comes along.
• 1:53:33
  Again, I'd it's not always my opinion, but I'm going, I'm
• 1:53:35
  going through a phase of kind of being just a little bit less
• 1:53:40
  interested between grown Williams, Andrew cartmel.
• 1:53:44
  So it's the area while their Chris raised me in the air.
• 1:53:46
  Its wartime. Yeah.
• 1:53:47
  Like I just kind of think then again, I wasn't, I want, I'm too
• 1:53:52
  young to have been around to get.
• 1:53:54
  I wasn't I wasn't alive during the Culture and I think the
• 1:53:57
  whole Zeitgeist and, you know, the feeling of, you know, what
• 1:54:01
  they were going for at the time and why they were going for at
• 1:54:03
  the time because I had lived through what came before I'm
• 1:54:05
  looking at all retrospectively, but I just think Chris Drake's,
• 1:54:08
  bid me an idea of what Doctor Who is wrong but you know,
• 1:54:12
  that's just that's just me today, you know?
• 1:54:16
  Yeah. Tamara your wife, be like full
• 1:54:18
  circle. That's the best thing I've ever
• 1:54:19
  seen. Okay, I've got a question for
• 1:54:22
  you here, and I really want to ask you this question because I
• 1:54:24
  asked you about this in the first, Half and you never great
• 1:54:27
  reaction to this and I want to know why.
• 1:54:30
  So I have no memory of this. Okay.
• 1:54:33
  Well you're in the hot seat now Mastermind, here we go, Fraser
• 1:54:37
  Gregory. Uh-huh mr.
• 1:54:39
  Contentious stop it Meister himself asked, is this pennant
• 1:54:44
  Roberts his finest hour. Now, your reaction to me was I
• 1:54:49
  don't look at Direction in a story.
• 1:54:54
  That's not how it is. That's not really true because
• 1:54:57
  I'm a film buff. I very much do look at
• 1:55:02
  Direction. Hmm.
• 1:55:04
  I just Don't as much with Doctor Who because it's, you know, I
• 1:55:09
  did not directly. No, I just you know his thing I
• 1:55:13
  noticed I noticed when it's particularly good and I noticed
• 1:55:15
  when it's chunky but I've never I've never paid any attention to
• 1:55:21
  the names of the directors. I when I was showing classic
• 1:55:26
  doctor and I shook couple examples to one of my exes here
• 1:55:32
  and one was Thomas Wayne triangle one with sign with the
• 1:55:34
  Ronnie. I could tell the difference
• 1:55:36
  between the so he went well, they're all a bit dating.
• 1:55:38
  I know. All right, well, there you go.
• 1:55:42
  Yeah, no, it's to be honest. I just can't, you know.
• 1:55:44
  It's it's just, yeah, I just yeah, I just I'm, I don't know.
• 1:55:53
  It's a heavy topic of conversation on this podcast, as
• 1:55:58
  you know? Yeah, it's just, it's somehow I
• 1:56:03
  don't really it with a, with a three camera studio setup, I
• 1:56:07
  don't, I don't necessarily You know, as long as it's competent,
• 1:56:12
  I tend to be okay with it and sometimes it is not some and
• 1:56:17
  sometimes it's absolutely glorious.
• 1:56:20
  Are saying the word, competent users, both an insole and a
• 1:56:23
  compliment. Oh, it's a oh yeah, it's like
• 1:56:25
  the word solid. You know, I was a solid script.
• 1:56:30
  You wrote there obviously it was solid.
• 1:56:32
  It was solid incompetent or fuck.
• 1:56:34
  You. You I slaved over that fucking
• 1:56:38
  skirt. Don't you don't you?
• 1:56:39
  You don't, you call my Works solidly son of a bitch.
• 1:56:42
  Yeah, that's what I was saying, was no point.
• 1:56:47
  No, no, good grief. No, no, no, this is all great
• 1:56:50
  stuff. What's this with the old, with
• 1:56:53
  the AV out the old, guys? Yes.
• 1:56:55
  Yeah, baby. It's great as well.
• 1:56:58
  Oh, man. Blessed are stuck with scenes of
• 1:56:59
  canine just shooting Blaster at that Croc, because that's always
• 1:57:04
  some wannabe Edwards. Inside that Croc, I think, is
• 1:57:08
  it, but I believe it is. Is can I tell you a story about
• 1:57:11
  Barnaby puts? Okay.
• 1:57:12
  Sure that's how I made that sound far more enticing.
• 1:57:15
  A she's gonna be. We eat.
• 1:57:18
  You have a habit of that Joe anyway carry on.
• 1:57:22
  Well when I went to the Utopia convention.
• 1:57:25
  Okay, Barbie Edwards. And Nick Peg went up on stage,
• 1:57:29
  right? And did The Two Ronnies sketch
• 1:57:32
  of what is it answering the the God, how does it work again?
• 1:57:38
  It's the they ask a question and they give the answer to the
• 1:57:40
  previous question, but it was all about yes, The Mastermind
• 1:57:43
  sketch. Yeah, but they did that about
• 1:57:45
  dogs who can sleep whenever 15 minutes It got more and more
• 1:57:49
  hilarious. I've never laughed so much in my
• 1:57:51
  entire life. That's something on stage.
• 1:57:53
  He's a clever man, Bobby, it was, oh, no, don't know what it
• 1:57:57
  is. Yeah, brilliant actor,
• 1:57:59
  phenomenal writer, terrific director, he directed tribes a
• 1:58:03
  midnight. Hmm.
• 1:58:05
  Oh, you know, he's wonderful. He renewed just to throw in a
• 1:58:08
  small bit of marketing. He didn't direct the entirety of
• 1:58:12
  the classic doctors new monsters box.
• 1:58:14
  A, I've just recently listened to, which was that he did.
• 1:58:18
  Yeah. Well, that was that was us.
• 1:58:20
  Yeah, it's a fun series that it's I say, what we managed to
• 1:58:24
  talk about directors in the end. Then just not of the show were
• 1:58:26
  actually watching. This is true.
• 1:58:28
  This is. All right, well, okay, Steven
• 1:58:32
  Alexander asks. When did you realize that's
• 1:58:35
  kagira was an anagram of crog's? When I saw his question today,
• 1:58:40
  on top, I think downsides of modern our time is I'll what the
• 1:58:45
  hell can I call the monsters? Yeah I kind of think Southaven
• 1:58:49
  skagerrak. There are too many s's.
• 1:58:52
  I can't you know you want really?
• 1:58:54
  When you're naming characters it's always better to make the
• 1:58:57
  names as dissimilar as possible and it's all it's a bigger thing
• 1:59:02
  jumper we ain't in this and in it.
• 1:59:04
  Well this is true in a lot of trouble.
• 1:59:08
  What is happening with Chris here?
• 1:59:09
  I've never quite understand, he has lent his brain power or
• 1:59:16
  something, but anyway what its leading up to something so
• 1:59:20
  thick, God knows. But yeah, it's leading one of
• 1:59:23
  the president. My, the biggest laugh for me in.
• 1:59:26
  This is went Chris wakes up. I just think his ya know when he
• 1:59:30
  goes off your marvelous. Yeah, yeah, it's delivered so
• 1:59:34
  well. He goes.
• 1:59:39
  Yeah, I'll take it. It's so unexpected and
• 1:59:44
  Brilliant. Yeah, it's that's a lovely car
• 1:59:47
  that I know it's a earlier where the scientist naming, all the
• 1:59:50
  different sizes and then mentioned, scare Gras, and
• 1:59:52
  there's a massive close-up on Tom, Baker's enormous eyes.
• 1:59:56
  Yes, we go. Here we go.
• 1:59:58
  Crystal always very pretty as well.
• 2:00:01
  You know, how I would live long enough to spare his companions,
• 2:00:06
  you know, I wouldn't, I'm not. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:00:09
  He's, he would have been good. He would have been, he would
• 2:00:13
  have been like a Harry Sullivan replacement, but like you said,
• 2:00:17
  I notice. I was looking out this time for
• 2:00:20
  the doctor and Ramana sort of talking down to him.
• 2:00:23
  And I did see a bit of it. Actually, I haven't, but I could
• 2:00:27
  see ya. So maybe maybe that'd be good
• 2:00:29
  companions with a Davison style doctor.
• 2:00:31
  Maybe not told my God. It's be too arrogant all the
• 2:00:33
  time. That's yeah, you're right.
• 2:00:35
  Peter Davison needed. Another compact.
• 2:00:40
  No, get rid of the free was stuck with and give him Claire
• 2:00:43
  and Chris, they're lovely. And I think, to be honest, if
• 2:00:47
  you wanted to have clearing Claire, and Chris ditch Ramana,
• 2:00:53
  Yeah. Yeah, I was a dynamic shift, a
• 2:00:55
  bit there. Yeah.
• 2:00:56
  It would it would have been. It would have been Sarah and
• 2:00:58
  Harry. Yeah, we've had the fourth
• 2:01:00
  doctor with competent contemporary, you know flings
• 2:01:05
  before. Yeah, but also just in terms of
• 2:01:09
  the type of character, Chris is he and Harry, they perform a
• 2:01:12
  similar function that they're complementary in a very similar
• 2:01:16
  way to Tom. I think I tell you something, I
• 2:01:20
  noticed Watching this. There are some things coming up
• 2:01:23
  between lalla Ward and Victoria help me out but going thank you
• 2:01:29
  very much. That's quite a sexy surname in.
• 2:01:31
  It looks really sorry. I'm having a moment.
• 2:01:34
  I think she might be on the town with her history and I really
• 2:01:40
  noticed the different styles in their performance.
• 2:01:42
  She is giving an incredibly naturalistic performers as
• 2:01:45
  Claire and Romano's during order.
• 2:01:48
  You know, get that down. Hold that Levi show playing it
• 2:01:51
  up to like, 15, but I, it didn't just that, I thought they work
• 2:01:56
  well together as appearing. Yeah.
• 2:01:59
  Yeah, it's all pretty much. This is fantastic, you know,
• 2:02:06
  huge story, big idea, there's all that kind of stuff, some
• 2:02:12
  bits of it to boil down, to keep your finger on a button.
• 2:02:14
  That's kind of my one problem with it.
• 2:02:15
  You know, for me, it's just a little tedious around that bit.
• 2:02:21
  I think he was a time. We know he was at a time.
• 2:02:24
  Yeah, he waited until the last possible moment on his, the
• 2:02:27
  doctor retires from the universe story thinking that Graham
• 2:02:31
  Williams was gonna Give up and say oh go on, then right here
• 2:02:35
  and he didn't. And then he had to turn this out
• 2:02:37
  in however many days he had. And so probably by the end of
• 2:02:41
  this, he's going. Oh well, you know, maybe she
• 2:02:42
  just reaches over for a pencil and that's what causes the
• 2:02:46
  corridor and space to vanish. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:02:50
  It's just you know, it's just it's just a minor thing but it's
• 2:02:52
  just, it's one of those little bits short sequences where you
• 2:02:58
  kind of feel are. They've got all big explosion.
• 2:03:00
  Very nice. You know what?
• 2:03:01
  You actually see the entire ring come out of the smoker.
• 2:03:05
  Oh yeah, fabulous the model work on this is gorgeous and you had
• 2:03:09
  a blow things up in the 70s, rob.
• 2:03:10
  You know they knew how to give you a big bang.
• 2:03:14
  Is this some this model work new though?
• 2:03:17
  Yes yeah that'll work too. That just went from new model
• 2:03:21
  work as a still shot to the explosion, which ones they are,
• 2:03:26
  okay, okay. But it just goes to show the
• 2:03:28
  detail. They've done because that blowed
• 2:03:30
  up and came out. Yeah, it's exactly the same
• 2:03:32
  shape of the one they built for this.
• 2:03:34
  So, I got ya, it's only, we're lucky, they do this stuff on.
• 2:03:37
  It's a gift, it really is. If I missed the bit where they
• 2:03:42
  go down the corridor and he says, what you've learned about.
• 2:03:45
  So, and so, yes. And so is so yes.
• 2:03:48
  And so that, you know, you got a lot to unlearn.
• 2:03:50
  I don't think it's a bloody L that is Dash equals is fabulous.
• 2:03:54
  It's all very good. Yeah, but there's one part when
• 2:03:56
  they come back into crew, notices rooms from the corridor
• 2:04:02
  and and you get a little glimpse of this, you know, this is just
• 2:04:05
  a little bit of set backing of the corridor set that we don't
• 2:04:08
  otherwise get to see apart from the animated bits.
• 2:04:10
  And then, It's different. So when looks like the corridors
• 2:04:15
  from Nightmare of Eden, it looks like.
• 2:04:20
  Yeah, well we saw is that this is the most visually engaging
• 2:04:26
  and we get more so than if we were watching. more if they
• 2:04:31
  manage to film as a little bit more before, you know, before
• 2:04:34
  industrial action, too cold or issues, with the hair down and
• 2:04:37
  big, big lie, seven classes, classes like this, you know,
• 2:04:41
  these enormous digital lifestyle glasses, Well, it's a sex thing.
• 2:04:47
  You've got big glasses on yourself now.
• 2:04:48
  Looks very what. What?
• 2:04:50
  What I did? Thanks thanks.
• 2:04:51
  It's just, you know. Gradual onset decrepitude I'm
• 2:04:55
  kind of smart and sexy rock. All right.
• 2:05:00
  But you know I would have rejected you know to a little
• 2:05:02
  seasonal to of Cronos assigned Chris and Claire hopping around
• 2:05:06
  the universe. They're all very likable.
• 2:05:09
  Yeah. Well it's again it's it's
• 2:05:11
  another doctor occur. Yeah, companion setup, isn't it
• 2:05:16
  really? You know it's it's you know,
• 2:05:18
  he's a he's a Time Lord on Earth.
• 2:05:20
  There are a couple of people who find him.
• 2:05:22
  It's all. It's all there.
• 2:05:25
  They're mirror characters are they it's kind of sad.
• 2:05:28
  You know there is that I think I'll need to keep laughter
• 2:05:31
  Arkham Denis after this. Yes, that's right.
• 2:05:35
  Yeah. And then he went on to do the
• 2:05:38
  face of the ball as in time, lash, Oddity.
• 2:05:43
  Yeah, do you remember? He's like, yeah, he's like,
• 2:05:45
  yeah, on the Mac, whatever. They got the face of the pretty
• 2:05:47
  man one in car fell. They've got the face of Dennis
• 2:05:51
  carry as the benevolent or as you know, I think my brother's
• 2:05:57
  just wanted to give him a real I think anyone with this wanted to
• 2:06:01
  have his moment on top. So that's what you did.
• 2:06:03
  Let you know, you know, directors and that period you go
• 2:06:06
  go from show to show and take your favorite actors with you.
• 2:06:08
  That's how we know. Julian Glover got so much work
• 2:06:10
  and all the different itc's and everything else.
• 2:06:13
  You know, all of that, all the spy shows, pretty much.
• 2:06:18
  Oh yeah, these are the changes they turn up in.
• 2:06:20
  That is an Avengers 4. X is in the st.
• 2:06:24
  Twice. He's in everything.
• 2:06:25
  Yeah, yeah, half the fun cuz I'm currently watching through Doom
• 2:06:30
  watch. I mean I can't mention this
• 2:06:31
  enough because feel my pain but honestly it's like a who's who
• 2:06:36
  of Doctor Who watching any show in the 70s.
• 2:06:39
  It's like cherry picking. Oh, he was in now, the sea
• 2:06:42
  Devils he was in the that you know the Douro.
• 2:06:44
  Yeah, it's a big pool in the BBC at the time and they're being
• 2:06:48
  filtered out to every production going, What he's just done is
• 2:06:54
  he's just done this biz. With the eyes.
• 2:06:57
  Yeah, which was sort of All right, but sort of not
• 2:07:02
  consensual because she didn't know what he was going to do,
• 2:07:05
  but it's so weird, you know, but she's fine with it.
• 2:07:08
  So I she plays this so brilliant.
• 2:07:10
  I know, she does, she really does?
• 2:07:12
  Yeah, she goes from go. No, I don't know, to reeling out
• 2:07:15
  technobabble as if she's been saying it, her entire life.
• 2:07:18
  And this was a very, this was an early acting role for her.
• 2:07:21
  I think it was her first, I think.
• 2:07:23
  Yeah, it's a real kick in the gut.
• 2:07:27
  Yeah. Something marvelous came out.
• 2:07:28
  This production, I don't, have you ever watched the special
• 2:07:30
  Features the documentaries, but the actor has has met his
• 2:07:35
  missus. I know, I know he's 23 in this,
• 2:07:39
  you know, which is under siege in my Rivers Harvey Baines in
• 2:07:43
  Waiting For Gold. Yes, I did.
• 2:07:45
  He wasn't he wasn't, you couldn't swing a dead cat around
• 2:07:48
  the 80s, not him in a sitcom Good.
• 2:07:52
  You he was in everything and talk about some pedigree Waiting
• 2:07:56
  for God. Yes, again I you know, I I said
• 2:08:00
  this before, but I still think Graham crowd and would have been
• 2:08:04
  the ultimate crocus. I kind of, you know, you are
• 2:08:08
  right, proper proper bomb site is sold eat, but is absolutely
• 2:08:12
  could have sold the doctor as well though.
• 2:08:14
  He was because he was the first, he was the first choice of the
• 2:08:16
  fourth doctor. So it would have been a lovely
• 2:08:18
  kind of what we walk could have been, you know, is that another
• 2:08:22
  one of those I don't want to commit to a long run.
• 2:08:25
  Yeah, yeah, it's an audio drama series called red moons which is
• 2:08:30
  a An alternative an alternate history Cold War Thriller.
• 2:08:33
  And so it's all about, you know, the moon has been colonized.
• 2:08:37
  It's got American and Soviet missile bases on it but there's
• 2:08:40
  just one scene and so the Earth economy is different you know
• 2:08:45
  things got much worse and the UK is kind of like the 51st state
• 2:08:49
  and the main characters. There's just one scene where
• 2:08:51
  he's being spied on from the street, as a cutting, a kind of
• 2:08:53
  Spike, 70 set spy stuff. We've just about to turn off the
• 2:08:56
  TV and the late great. Stephen, critchlow voice actor.
• 2:09:01
  He's introducing the next program on and it's G.
• 2:09:05
  Crowden is back in last of the Jaguar off as Doctor Who ha ha
• 2:09:10
  ha, because in that Universe, the economy was worse.
• 2:09:13
  So grown crowded, I needed the money.
• 2:09:16
  So I said yes that's kind of you know just the interest rates I
• 2:09:19
  just to I I need to pay the bills somehow.
• 2:09:22
  Well you know it's like you know some actors, you know,
• 2:09:24
  desperately want the security of work.
• 2:09:29
  Then you got other actors who don't want to get wedded.
• 2:09:32
  I mean, John simm. Famously.
• 2:09:37
  You know, two years and he's bored, you know.
• 2:09:39
  So don't want to doesn't want to sign up to anything for very
• 2:09:42
  long. You know, that's fair to toss
• 2:09:44
  Waker laboring. He was a yeah, yeah.
• 2:09:47
  Yeah, exactly, exactly. But yeah, grown crowd and
• 2:09:49
  dimwits. Didn't want to get stuck to the
• 2:09:52
  job and how he was there, to be the one to kind of.
• 2:09:54
  Do we actually stuff on his behalf?
• 2:09:56
  So there you go. But everyone knows anyway.
• 2:09:59
  So you know, okay. That's like that's why I keep
• 2:10:02
  bringing up your audio, dramas but you know, it's something
• 2:10:04
  that you here and we're talking about Doctor Who.
• 2:10:06
  So I listened to unlike a grief are calm and what it was called
• 2:10:14
  the ones sitting room. Oh, the two volume, Who Knew Too
• 2:10:17
  Much. Thank you very much.
• 2:10:19
  Do I look that up online to spell that.
• 2:10:21
  For my review as well. Anyway, I could absolutely tell
• 2:10:25
  Tom Baker was having a fucking ball with that script.
• 2:10:29
  You can tell when he's really really enjoying himself.
• 2:10:35
  I need is here as well. I think yeah, I love writing for
• 2:10:37
  Tom Baker, I can't believe I get to write for Tom Baker.
• 2:10:40
  I could never have planned to put myself in a position where I
• 2:10:43
  was doing that, but I get to and I know what he likes to do and
• 2:10:48
  so I know what to kind of, I know the kind of things he likes
• 2:10:51
  to do and I like to write things that he likes.
• 2:10:55
  But yeah, that's what I kind of, I wrote that hoping it would be,
• 2:10:58
  the kind of thing he'd be happy doing.
• 2:11:00
  Then when I got to here, it was like, oh yeah, he's out, he's
• 2:11:02
  having a ball. Yes, that's good, right?
• 2:11:04
  The six degrees of separation from Douglas Adams here.
• 2:11:07
  You know, you're both right in for Tom Baker.
• 2:11:09
  This is true. This is true.
• 2:11:11
  Yes. Okay, I'm going to hit you with
• 2:11:13
  another question them and I'm 42.
• 2:11:15
  Hey, I'm beyond knowing the meaning of life now.
• 2:11:23
  Okay, Dave Rennie are other Dave, all these dark questions
• 2:11:27
  you're getting, I'm so sorry. Robbie is that?
• 2:11:29
  These are my favorite. Go on such a smart bloke, as
• 2:11:31
  well. Would you consider scabrous
• 2:11:34
  outfit? High fashion.
• 2:11:38
  I kind of feel that staggers outfit is one of the stumbling
• 2:11:42
  blocks. For me, it's the Hat of that.
• 2:11:47
  What you talking about? It's the big.
• 2:11:49
  Yeah. It's the kind of hat.
• 2:11:52
  These women would wear on the beach in the 70s and you know,
• 2:11:56
  it makes them lighter. That's all, you know, cows
• 2:11:58
  cartoon. Cows to wear hats like that.
• 2:12:00
  Okay. Yeah.
• 2:12:01
  I I know what the kind of the gag is but I just don't think it
• 2:12:06
  worked. Well there was what like he
• 2:12:09
  should be trying to blend irrational.
• 2:12:14
  Cambridge is the one place. Someone could dress like that
• 2:12:17
  and not be noticed. But I think the go too far.
• 2:12:20
  I think something that would in bet.
• 2:12:21
  You know how we know Superman to Terence Stamp is General Zod,
• 2:12:24
  you've got General Zod Sauron on, they come down to Houston
• 2:12:28
  you know. And all the locals, think
• 2:12:31
  they've come, you know, that clearly from l.a., you know,
• 2:12:33
  that's that's the gag they're going for.
• 2:12:35
  But I think they go too far with Scag where he should have been
• 2:12:38
  drafted. By all means dressed like a
• 2:12:41
  Spaceman but not not that disco, I kind of, you know, not that
• 2:12:47
  it's too fancy, you know, it is Cambridge in our money.
• 2:12:51
  I'm just down the road from Brian e, get away with him.
• 2:12:53
  Well, well, well, that's right, that's it, that's a different
• 2:12:59
  joke. It's even offer one difference.
• 2:13:03
  They brought Jesus Christ. Okay.
• 2:13:05
  Another question. It's about did I answer that
• 2:13:09
  previous question though fully what was say?
• 2:13:11
  So yeah. Do you consider a high-fashion?
• 2:13:13
  I'm guessing you're saying no oh no, don't answer I fashioned
• 2:13:16
  yeah I'm sure I'm sure it's high fashion but it's dramatically.
• 2:13:19
  I find it's not in character for him to wear it.
• 2:13:24
  I think he obviously changes into the trouser suit, then yes,
• 2:13:28
  that are on a much better kill after this.
• 2:13:31
  I can take him, seriously. Okay, that's why I bought
• 2:13:35
  sweetie. I'm not going through.
• 2:13:37
  Okay, do you think this? Didn't start this question
• 2:13:41
  again? Did this work better reworked as
• 2:13:45
  Dirk? Gently's holistic?
• 2:13:46
  Detective agency Robin? Fraser Gregory again?
• 2:13:50
  Other Fraser again good question.
• 2:13:53
  Did it work? It better work.
• 2:13:55
  Different it worked different and back to best again away.
• 2:13:58
  Yeah, it's because it's a different work with bits of this
• 2:14:04
  remixed, we have crew, notice who was a time traveler, not a
• 2:14:08
  time lord. And we have a very kind of
• 2:14:13
  Chinese puzzle box. Very intricate time-travel plot
• 2:14:19
  going on, and if memory serves, we have an alien who wants to go
• 2:14:23
  back in time to when his spaceship crashed.
• 2:14:26
  And It's so it's actually part of City death as well.
• 2:14:31
  Point, I would say works better. It works differently, it's not
• 2:14:36
  even a remix, it's like, it's some, it's Sharda is sampled in,
• 2:14:41
  add another bloody version of Charles du jour.
• 2:14:45
  Actually, you know, why not? Forget throw in Dirk gently's
• 2:14:48
  holistic, detective agency, you know, into the mix as a it, say
• 2:14:52
  it, say it. Tell you what?
• 2:14:54
  No, it's what. It's it is to Sharda.
• 2:14:56
  What Huh. What's that song by six
• 2:15:02
  underground? That.
• 2:15:03
  Anyway, it remixes. Some of John Berry score from
• 2:15:07
  Goldfinger. He'll come to me.
• 2:15:11
  I get the point that you're waking though.
• 2:15:13
  Yeah, yeah. So no.
• 2:15:14
  It's Yeah. Anyway basically yeah, it's
• 2:15:20
  don't gently samples Sharda but is it better?
• 2:15:24
  No, it's just different. It's just different.
• 2:15:25
  Do you know? It is another version that you
• 2:15:27
  know, because I had once had the most glorious morning of my life
• 2:15:30
  where my dear friend, Jack Shanahan, who I have a another
• 2:15:33
  podcast, we've called the 91 be praised.
• 2:15:37
  Dirk, gently was battered into a stage script and was put on as a
• 2:15:44
  stage play. I needed a One man show reading
• 2:15:46
  out the entire script to me and I'll tell you what it was a
• 2:15:49
  Delirious experience. Wow, there's another sample
• 2:15:53
  version of shoulder out there again, which is Echoes of chard
• 2:15:58
  are through history. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:16:00
  And actually, that's what it is. You know, what happened, shut
• 2:16:03
  what happened to Sharda? What happened to scare off?
• 2:16:05
  Happened to Sharda. That's the truth it, which is
• 2:16:07
  the best scare off. Now they're all scare off.
• 2:16:10
  You know that they're all Julian Glover?
• 2:16:15
  Well, I don't know. I feel I feel like the one back
• 2:16:17
  in Leonardo's studio is probably my favorite because he's so
• 2:16:22
  florid that one ready. I think that's exactly what I
• 2:16:27
  should be asking you doctor. It's the pause.
• 2:16:31
  I'll have the problem. Okay, well, my shoulder right
• 2:16:36
  now. When we get back on Twitter,
• 2:16:38
  when we're on the Twitter world after doing this.
• 2:16:41
  Hmm. Yeah, I'm good.
• 2:16:42
  I'm going to retweet our subtweet, my occasionally
• 2:16:45
  retweeted shocking Exposé of how Indiana Jones and the Last
• 2:16:51
  Crusade just massively, rips off city of death but we'll just
• 2:16:56
  I'll do that. After once you post this, I'll
• 2:16:58
  remind remind me to do that but it's a series of tweets.
• 2:17:01
  Is it where you pull it apart? Yeah.
• 2:17:04
  Yeah, yeah. Anyway anyway, anyway, just you
• 2:17:06
  think someone I've been watching so you're different before they
• 2:17:08
  might go? Yeah.
• 2:17:10
  Hell yeah. The evidence is damning anyway.
• 2:17:13
  Yes. Like, for example, I get this
• 2:17:16
  sequence that I think we're about to see.
• 2:17:18
  I think I'm in the right place where all the crowds are being
• 2:17:20
  made. Yeah, I mean, I try to think
• 2:17:22
  that all that would have looked from the original version.
• 2:17:25
  Yeah. I'm and also I kind of feel
• 2:17:27
  that. Why are the, why do we have
• 2:17:28
  crog's in this because you know, she's a monster.
• 2:17:32
  Yeah, yeah, I'd actually. Ink.
• 2:17:36
  Why? Why why do we have crog's?
• 2:17:38
  What I kind of think the most usee use.
• 2:17:41
  The stuff that's kind of unavoidable, rather than crog's.
• 2:17:45
  Use the other prisoners. It's the hitch.
• 2:17:47
  Everybody Alfred Hitchcock to principal was use your location.
• 2:17:50
  And if if we're going to a prison planet to free a
• 2:17:53
  particular prisoner, use all the other prisoners make you know, I
• 2:17:57
  know they kind of do do that but now that just like zombies
• 2:18:00
  aren't my. It's just yeah yeah yeah but
• 2:18:02
  that but even so that's still kind of you know Mom.
• 2:18:04
  Oysters that are kind of organically come out of the
• 2:18:07
  implications of what you've set up, the crog's just seem random.
• 2:18:11
  There are occasions, in Doctor Who's run.
• 2:18:14
  Where? I'm just wonder why our is the
• 2:18:17
  monster case of androzani. The magma Beast ghost-like, the
• 2:18:20
  husks, and there's many, a historical in the new series
• 2:18:24
  where I'm going. Well, what was the point of
• 2:18:26
  that? I kind of know what the point is
• 2:18:28
  inside because point is sometimes you're asked to bring
• 2:18:32
  a monster in, that's Resting you audience.
• 2:18:35
  So to pay attention with our monster, That sounds don't
• 2:18:44
  speak. Too much.
• 2:18:48
  Hang on a minute. I've had a lot of your scripts
• 2:18:50
  now. They were a monster in.
• 2:18:51
  Mm-hmm. No.
• 2:18:55
  Not a good. Understanding of a monster, did
• 2:18:57
  it? No, it's got the computer.
• 2:19:00
  I think it was going to have stewards in it.
• 2:19:02
  I think I was going to have robotic stewards, but so I was
• 2:19:05
  going to have a kind of monster in it, but I think they were
• 2:19:09
  deemed to be too much like The robots from robots of death,
• 2:19:17
  they're working, they're going to be they're really going to.
• 2:19:19
  They weren't going to be Camp robotic, you know, kind of
• 2:19:23
  1950s, you know, cruise ship stewards you know, whoever I'm
• 2:19:28
  there for. You know, it's probably had to
• 2:19:33
  get Barbie over to play them as well as everyone else used to
• 2:19:35
  playing it so you know and you pull it off brilliantly evil But
• 2:19:40
  it doesn't, he would have done. Yeah, he's wonderful in that.
• 2:19:43
  My God, even I have a feeling he might be selling Haven.
• 2:19:51
  I mean, there's been no hints or Clues tonight.
• 2:19:54
  No here. Yeah, Chris and Claire sell a
• 2:19:57
  Vince gagra. You know, it's really just with
• 2:20:00
  a, my writing hat on. You want to have your characters
• 2:20:04
  names, beginning with different letters.
• 2:20:06
  And you know what, why I always question when, you know, in the
• 2:20:11
  exciting parts of stories, you've got people just, you
• 2:20:13
  can't just people sitting around.
• 2:20:15
  Yeah, that's out there. Very beige, aren't they?
• 2:20:19
  Yeah, this was the It's because it's like the Bond film fewer is
• 2:20:24
  only. It's like this little snapshot
• 2:20:26
  of beige. Where, you know, I mean this is
• 2:20:30
  the 70s. There was a lot going on.
• 2:20:32
  He's he's it's around. Yeah.
• 2:20:38
  I love all this, canine versus the bowl.
• 2:20:41
  Yeah, no, but in the in the 80s it all went sort of chrome and
• 2:20:47
  glass and sort of white business really is horrible.
• 2:20:52
  Oh yeah. Great evil ever.
• 2:20:54
  Yeah, I do kind of think that kind of Yuppie aesthetic is
• 2:20:58
  really, if you're feeding off the Zeitgeist, apprehend me for
• 2:21:02
  saying this, I think that's where the sixth doctor's costume
• 2:21:04
  should have gone it by 85. Do you know the time that you
• 2:21:08
  know the era of Wall Street? Okay what to be like creams and
• 2:21:14
  no, I'm doing Pinstripes braces or stuff?
• 2:21:17
  Yeah, kind of Gordon Gekko Chic. Yeah.
• 2:21:21
  Oh, here we go. Prisoners and So it's quite in
• 2:21:28
  Revolution of the Daleks the Jodie Whittaker New Year's?
• 2:21:34
  Did you think that was Sharda? It did look very like shoulder.
• 2:21:39
  Yeah, I kind of thought oh it's harder but we never got it's
• 2:21:42
  never made a parent. What it is, is it?
• 2:21:44
  It's just yeah. Prism is it just it's shorter if
• 2:21:48
  you want it to be shorter, but does it doesn't.
• 2:21:50
  But would it make any sense? It wouldn't make any sense for
• 2:21:52
  it to be shorter, though, would it?
• 2:21:53
  Because chartres is where the time Lords.
• 2:21:54
  Put their prisoners and then. Who put yeah why she prisoner.
• 2:21:59
  I've only seen it the once I haven't gone back.
• 2:22:02
  Wow. What is that?
• 2:22:03
  You dude is that if it's not harder than it is in prison.
• 2:22:11
  Yeah it makes no sense for it to be sure but let's show people
• 2:22:14
  all around what Chris chibnall did in that Was have a ton of
• 2:22:19
  our monsters in that prison to make it interesting.
• 2:22:23
  I'm sure that was kind of the plan on paper for Sharda.
• 2:22:26
  I think to have like a Cyberman or a dart.
• 2:22:27
  Why you'd have a look like one random Dalek in.
• 2:22:30
  They're really lovely? I wouldn't know.
• 2:22:32
  Yeah. But why would it be around?
• 2:22:35
  What? Why put one?
• 2:22:36
  Random dark in prison? Yeah, I can do it raises more
• 2:22:39
  questions than it answers. In the Gathering of those ocean.
• 2:22:43
  They kind of, get they give a lot of the, the criminals Back
• 2:22:45
  stories, which is, you know, obviously which is what you
• 2:22:47
  would do in a novel, but it should never add an element to a
• 2:22:50
  story that you did not add an explanation to just for like a
• 2:22:55
  fan blankie purpose of making someone, marries watched all of
• 2:23:00
  this stuff have a little thrill. I do that.
• 2:23:03
  Do that do that as often as possible.
• 2:23:05
  Yeah, that's all. That's all it would bring in the
• 2:23:06
  prisoner. You have to make it look a
• 2:23:09
  specific Dalek. Who's got gets locked up for a
• 2:23:12
  specific reason. You know, I reckon but it's a
• 2:23:15
  little putting monster is in that prison.
• 2:23:18
  I love him so much another one that eats.
• 2:23:20
  Oh yeah, maybe yeah. I just kind of, I don't know why
• 2:23:24
  we didn't get then a sequel story called, pings loads of
• 2:23:34
  waiting for that. Well, okay, because he said
• 2:23:39
  rather lovely bit between Ramona and the doctor where she comes
• 2:23:43
  up with the idea, it would, with the fact that his mind is in the
• 2:23:47
  is in the mix as well. Hmm, does he give her the
• 2:23:50
  wristlet? But it's just another scene
• 2:23:52
  where the only to the only people they care about an entire
• 2:23:55
  universe or each other please. Yeah.
• 2:23:59
  Yeah, there isn't really much for Chris and Claire to do now,
• 2:24:02
  is there, no, that in a weird way that this wife is one reason
• 2:24:06
  why Chris Kirk gets taken over there to to a degree their
• 2:24:10
  luggage because it's actually quite a large cast considering
• 2:24:14
  once you get everyone together. you kind of run out of stuff to
• 2:24:17
  do with them, you know, it's if you've got, you know, people
• 2:24:20
  split people up and get if them like subplots which intertwined
• 2:24:25
  like a double helix or whatever, then you can then it's fine.
• 2:24:27
  But once everyone's together, you know, that that can often
• 2:24:31
  lead to people suddenly becoming a touch Superfluous.
• 2:24:34
  We've got the bad guy is operating the Tardis.
• 2:24:37
  This is a monster in there as well.
• 2:24:40
  I know what I was villains. All those criminals.
• 2:24:42
  Yeah. So he's going for something.
• 2:24:47
  Epic is it is go for like an end-of-season.
• 2:24:50
  Oh yeah, it's the end of season six parts.
• 2:24:53
  The fate of the universe is at stake and the villain can
• 2:24:57
  control the Tardis. This is these are Big Stakes but
• 2:25:02
  it's cozy Douglas Adams it is. Yeah and I think there is a lot
• 2:25:07
  of will spilling spilling wheel spinning in the last couple of
• 2:25:11
  episodes where I'm like, yeah, he's just checking out this
• 2:25:14
  scene a bit longer than it needs to be.
• 2:25:16
  There's a bit where the doctors to remodel, right?
• 2:25:17
  You stand there, I'll stand here.
• 2:25:19
  Right? Why we stand like this?
• 2:25:20
  Well, I needed space to think alike.
• 2:25:23
  Okay, we don't need that bit at all, is nothing to do with
• 2:25:25
  anything. It's cute but it's all wasting
• 2:25:28
  time, beeping and whirring. You know, how's y'all's
• 2:25:31
  thinking, you know, when they were Clinging On to these levers
• 2:25:35
  and a minute, the doctors are in the corridor.
• 2:25:37
  I was thinking my God. It's like the end of Doomsday in
• 2:25:39
  it. Just not quite as dramatic.
• 2:25:42
  Yes, yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right Graeme Harper knew
• 2:25:46
  how to create a sense of occasion that was all, you know,
• 2:25:49
  last. Oh, yeah, and and, and as as to
• 2:25:52
  our earlier discussion, I noticed when it's Graeme Harper,
• 2:25:57
  put it that way, how can you as well?
• 2:26:00
  Well, well exactly what. Exactly.
• 2:26:02
  I'm recording Utopia tomorrow. I'll tell you what.
• 2:26:05
  The last 15 minutes of that, I was absolutely breathless.
• 2:26:08
  I didn't know when to take a breath.
• 2:26:11
  Oh yeah, I know. It's yeah, it's like wet rope.
• 2:26:16
  Where is this? Is our say, it has a measured
• 2:26:18
  Pace. Yes.
• 2:26:20
  And who's serious with his, you know, all the things.
• 2:26:24
  All right. Yeah.
• 2:26:27
  It's a sort of thing are, do you know, I get a towel around me,
• 2:26:29
  come down the stairs and go friends, Romans countrymen.
• 2:26:33
  This is where I can buy into the dog.
• 2:26:35
  So completely that I tell you is it lacking a slight ticking
• 2:26:42
  clock element? Is that kind of the problem
• 2:26:44
  here, you know, it's kind of manufactured here, isn't it?
• 2:26:47
  Where they're like, we need to give him time to get our that
• 2:26:50
  Corridor. I've always he's going to and
• 2:26:53
  then for such, yeah, yeah, but yeah, it is.
• 2:26:56
  Yeah, there it is. That it feels mild extraneous
• 2:27:00
  doesn't it's not? It's because there's a ticking
• 2:27:02
  clock built into a wacky sci-fi plan that the doctors got to get
• 2:27:06
  from one place to another but it's not kind of built into what
• 2:27:10
  the bad guys up to. That's kind of that.
• 2:27:13
  You know what? It's not just that as well.
• 2:27:15
  I don't really I know what the stakes are but I'm not really
• 2:27:19
  sure why I should care about it really you know like in the best
• 2:27:24
  Doctor Who stories. I really care about the
• 2:27:26
  characters. That real danger and you know
• 2:27:29
  the stakes are raised and there's my suspense whereas
• 2:27:32
  here. It's like yeah I'm going to I'm
• 2:27:34
  going to be like this universal mind and everyone's going to be
• 2:27:38
  me and I'm like and I'm like yeah it's a big idea that is to
• 2:27:47
  just I'm just I'm going to I'm going to steal a phrase from
• 2:27:49
  flight through entirety. Oh go on once word, peril, you
• 2:27:53
  know, that's that's what it is, you know.
• 2:27:56
  They lay they love creating their own little descriptions.
• 2:27:59
  I don't know why don't their it be a when you when you're
• 2:28:02
  brilliant, you can and they are. So they do, it's done a few on
• 2:28:05
  this tartrate one as well, you know, it's nothing to do with
• 2:28:08
  me. Do you know what?
• 2:28:09
  For the longest time? I kind of I didn't realize your
• 2:28:12
  Star Trek that stop their startup project.
• 2:28:14
  That podcast was out because I thought they were it was still
• 2:28:20
  working progress since then, one title stutter project, I didn't
• 2:28:23
  realize that was the name of it and it was actually available.
• 2:28:25
  I thought, oh, I'm looking for doing that.
• 2:28:26
  Comes up one, once I've thought of a name for it and it's really
• 2:28:28
  spinning. That's just me being.
• 2:28:30
  Oh, bless you? Because I know that I can I can,
• 2:28:36
  I can be horrible. Yeah, I know I can just be
• 2:28:38
  dreadfully slow sometimes. Here we go.
• 2:28:43
  This is reaching for a pencil. Yeah, it's like and then I'll
• 2:28:47
  just I'll go. I'll go get it.
• 2:28:49
  And then we'll Happen and bang, and it's all very arbitrary and
• 2:28:53
  based on just random fluke stuff.
• 2:28:58
  You know what, I really perked up was when they went back to
• 2:29:01
  Earth again at the end. And there's this charming,
• 2:29:04
  little scene in the study with the policeman coming in.
• 2:29:06
  Yeah, I think the, I think the part of the problem is, we've,
• 2:29:10
  although we've taken crocuses rooms with him his Tardis.
• 2:29:14
  We've we've kind of left the wonderful world of Cambridge and
• 2:29:18
  we've gone back into the space corridor.
• 2:29:22
  Was of the rest of series season 17.
• 2:29:24
  That's that's what's happened. Whereas, we never leave Paris in
• 2:29:29
  city of death? Well, I'm sort of going back to
• 2:29:31
  the Peril in like at the end of the story and see if F like, you
• 2:29:38
  know, it's so clever because it's like what the entirety of
• 2:29:41
  the human race will cease to exist if this doesn't happen, I
• 2:29:45
  absolutely get. This cannot happen, you know?
• 2:29:48
  Yeah. And it's not just an idea that
• 2:29:51
  there are there are There are physical.
• 2:29:55
  Scenarios. I have to be gone through to
• 2:29:57
  achieve it, you know. So there's only has to be chased
• 2:30:00
  to a certain place where he's going to do a certain thing.
• 2:30:04
  Whereas this are here is a kind of largely left their own
• 2:30:07
  devices. Hear a lot that they're just,
• 2:30:09
  you know, Scag has kind of disappeared a bit because he
• 2:30:13
  doesn't need to be around its Can I just say that they have
• 2:30:20
  put in so many Easter eggs in this scene right now?
• 2:30:23
  You've got on the Vellum Blaster a Cyberman hit that.
• 2:30:26
  He's a shape detector from the time monster and you know what?
• 2:30:30
  The cheekiest thing of always when he looks up, you know, it's
• 2:30:32
  on the top shelf and mr. It's bloody all rack from
• 2:30:36
  Blake's 7. Oh, wow.
• 2:30:47
  Okay well question is yes yes more questions but he helped
• 2:30:52
  raise he's looking for a bit of attention today I so yeah it's
• 2:30:54
  got another one. If Ronnie Corbett had played
• 2:30:57
  Will Kim would that be perfect casting or a distraction I
• 2:31:02
  suppose the question should be if this was set in the 80s with
• 2:31:04
  that happened. Yes.
• 2:31:08
  Yeah, it does feel a bit like a charity thing, but it would have
• 2:31:12
  been different. What if the guy plays Wilkin who
• 2:31:16
  played Billy bunter in the 50s, but he was kind of, you know, I
• 2:31:20
  don't Ronnie Corbett was kind of, you know, a bigger deal.
• 2:31:26
  What do you have unbalanced? It slightly or do you?
• 2:31:30
  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
• 2:31:31
  I have no idea. I mean, he turned up with daily
• 2:31:33
  bumpers on his head in the Sarah, Jane Adventures.
• 2:31:36
  Yeah, yeah, I think I personally would be going, oh, that was
• 2:31:40
  really cool. Bit, you know, I wouldn't be
• 2:31:41
  thinking that there's Wilkin, I'm some, I would find
• 2:31:44
  personally, I'd find it distracting but you does that
• 2:31:47
  happen with them, with all the guest actors in the 80s, we've
• 2:31:51
  had Adam Pace with these we can do a bit if there's no it does
• 2:31:57
  with Barrel read because she's just a great actor.
• 2:31:59
  Dish is great. Nicholas Parsons yeah it's fine.
• 2:32:04
  Even a hint of Nicholas Parsons is Nicholas Parsons in that at
• 2:32:07
  all you know, reason character he was actor first.
• 2:32:10
  We just we just forget, he was acting first because he did so
• 2:32:14
  many quiz shows but Here's my favorite Linda Baron in
• 2:32:20
  Enlightenment. Oh yeah.
• 2:32:22
  No, she's wonderful. Yeah, she's great as cat.
• 2:32:24
  That's how your picture of Inland.
• 2:32:26
  All right. You cackle to camera.
• 2:32:31
  I was a coward. Now, the doctors come out of the
• 2:32:34
  TARDIS, and he should have been home.
• 2:32:35
  I see that's quite a good guy because he's going to come out
• 2:32:37
  doctor. Come out thinking he's in the
• 2:32:39
  professor's rooms. Hello?
• 2:32:42
  Hello. But this effortless way of
• 2:32:49
  making any piece of dialogue sounds natural.
• 2:32:53
  This is he. Oh yeah, never won one of the
• 2:32:57
  fun things about writing for Tom Baker is Listening to the
• 2:33:01
  finished thing and find out. Okay.
• 2:33:04
  What did he change? Which which which bits are going
• 2:33:09
  to come along and surprise me? I also do what you got back and
• 2:33:13
  re-listen and right. That's a he didn't like that
• 2:33:16
  line that's gonna call. You haven't got it yet.
• 2:33:23
  Then depending if I can answer it, I will.
• 2:33:27
  If I'm if I can't contractually, then I can't.
• 2:33:29
  But no 3 again off work. Because I even if you said Tom,
• 2:33:33
  I didn't change any lives. I would believe you because I
• 2:33:35
  know he's been doing that there. Isn't I acting career?
• 2:33:39
  I'm almost willing to bet kind of Acres wordperfect.
• 2:33:42
  Most of the time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:33:46
  And I, uh, not really invested and as read the whole thing,
• 2:33:50
  studying the whole thing thought about it.
• 2:33:52
  Yeah. He's is actually brilliant.
• 2:33:54
  Yeah, yeah. God, can I just go complete your
• 2:33:57
  piece for a second time? I'm sorry to do, you know?
• 2:33:58
  Yeah, sure. Sure, seemed in their chronic or
• 2:34:01
  no man sighs. I say it kind of makes a chronic
• 2:34:04
  chronic answer. Yes, sequence at the end of
• 2:34:06
  that, I gonna say nothing because he's confronting
• 2:34:08
  somebody very bad. Geez Louise, my blood run cold.
• 2:34:12
  There was Some serious fucking acting going on in that saying,
• 2:34:15
  I'll tell you, yeah, well, you know, there are some Doctor Who
• 2:34:18
  villains, who you'll never meet the likes of scarecrow and there
• 2:34:22
  are other ones who you already know.
• 2:34:25
  Yes, I know why that was built into that everybody go listen to
• 2:34:30
  Puri undreamed, it's bloody brilliant.
• 2:34:32
  Anyway, I'll stop doing big finish market now.
• 2:34:37
  Okay. Fighting off frogs again is get
• 2:34:41
  a bit repetitive. This is This is now got just a
• 2:34:45
  little bit, just a touch, generic season 17 now, just a
• 2:34:52
  bit. Yeah, and there was none of that
• 2:34:54
  really at the beginning was that know, it's, you know, when
• 2:34:58
  you're in in Cambridge mysterious goings on in and
• 2:35:01
  around Cambridge, the setting really helps, And as I said in
• 2:35:07
  the first half of this when he's so rarely go to contemporary
• 2:35:10
  times in this era. Hmm.
• 2:35:13
  Yes. So refreshing image of the
• 2:35:15
  fender all I think Stones a blast.
• 2:35:20
  Yep. Those are blood not enough.
• 2:35:22
  There's a blood again Ike I'd be happy.
• 2:35:24
  I'd like to get like it more. If it stuck around in the
• 2:35:27
  present day for longer, I kind of miss, I miss it.
• 2:35:29
  Once they leave off to have the ice trial, that is a matter of
• 2:35:34
  personal taste, you know, a bunch of pixie dust.
• 2:35:36
  Capricorn is is my bag. I'm sorry.
• 2:35:41
  But I'll tell you, one thing, I think Williams has an
• 2:35:46
  end-of-season sense of occasion because with the invasion of
• 2:35:49
  time, it's Gallifrey being invaded and the docks being evil
• 2:35:53
  in the Armageddon. Fact, on that is using the
• 2:35:56
  MacGuffin that's power that season 2 power that last story
• 2:36:00
  and to have this massive like epic battle between good and
• 2:36:03
  evil. And then in this This again, it
• 2:36:07
  does, you know, it's the time, lord Prison Planet.
• 2:36:10
  There's a sense of the Epic, but in a way that you don't really
• 2:36:13
  have a note Hinchcliffe finales, they're better stories, they're
• 2:36:17
  good stories, Thomas Wayne triang seeds to Doom.
• 2:36:22
  You know what I'm saying? Yeah you're looking baffle
• 2:36:28
  there's a that's my that's my that's my attentive listening
• 2:36:31
  face. Sorry it's also is very similar
• 2:36:34
  to my baffled face but ya know they're different, they're cut
• 2:36:37
  their, their law heavy. You know they're very much there
• 2:36:41
  about the doctor, Gallifrey time Lords, you know the whatever of
• 2:36:48
  Rassilon in a way that Wang Chong, Yang is not, for example,
• 2:36:56
  and the then more is of in the style of what the new series
• 2:37:02
  would do. Now, you know, that sort of
• 2:37:03
  sense of occasion ending as you chip into the 80s.
• 2:37:08
  All right, you get lakopolous in the first thing.
• 2:37:10
  But then you have ending with time fly your ending with the
• 2:37:12
  twin dilemma. I mean, these are massively epic
• 2:37:17
  stories. Oh yeah.
• 2:37:19
  They are. They are it's yeah.
• 2:37:20
  They are kind. Yeah.
• 2:37:21
  That they are big and they They're all about the doctor and
• 2:37:24
  the doctors, you know, who kind of the, the law of the doctor
• 2:37:29
  basically, aren't they? Yes.
• 2:37:30
  Yeah, Notch. It's too much though in the 80s.
• 2:37:32
  I think this is nice here. It's the occasional told leaning
• 2:37:37
  into the continuity. Well, what happened to that ball
• 2:37:42
  now? Oh, it's is it Ben Rub my finger
• 2:37:48
  pulls over neutralized. Yes.
• 2:37:50
  Been neutralized. I believe.
• 2:37:52
  Yeah. Oh and here we have, we do have
• 2:37:55
  Kristen team's final scene and he oh wait.
• 2:37:59
  Does he chew a senior year? Yeah, it's I don't have
• 2:38:07
  brilliantly acted. It is to be honest.
• 2:38:09
  Well, this same this scene. Yeah, I mean it's it's hard to
• 2:38:14
  show how brilliantly acted most of season 17 is your know.
• 2:38:17
  It's, it's representational acting rather you know.
• 2:38:23
  It's a bit way grabs hold of his face.
• 2:38:26
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me go.
• 2:38:32
  But this is the sort of acting I can imagine Tom Baker watching
• 2:38:34
  it now, you know, where they made him sit and watch a load of
• 2:38:36
  Clips. He'd be laughing his head off
• 2:38:38
  bout. A it is, it is, it is the right
• 2:38:45
  fate for the character, though, to be to be condemned to
• 2:38:49
  listening to his computer. Talk about the doctor for the
• 2:38:53
  rest of his life, until the air runs out, but this is a very
• 2:38:57
  lovely whistle one, the scene performance from the copper, it
• 2:39:01
  really, isn't it? It's It is really nice and I'm,
• 2:39:04
  you know, once we're back in Cambridge at the end, I'm kind
• 2:39:06
  of, I'm back in love with it. Again, but I think it's all the
• 2:39:11
  space corridors and they're the kind of a contrived running
• 2:39:14
  around for reasons that I struggle with slightly.
• 2:39:17
  Can I ask you? Do you actually watch this
• 2:39:18
  through normally or do you get about halfway and go ask all the
• 2:39:21
  good stuff down and I do what you through.
• 2:39:23
  I just tend to I do find myself a zoning out just a little bit,
• 2:39:26
  you know. And you know on yeah.
• 2:39:30
  Episode 45 and most 26 as we are approached favorite part of it,
• 2:39:36
  sorry Carol. So as we are approaching the end
• 2:39:38
  of this Commentary. Our fellows have saved the best
• 2:39:40
  question for last and I'm deeply intrigued to hear your answer.
• 2:39:44
  Okay. Okay.
• 2:39:45
  It's from Tom Newson. Hello Tom and he says Would you
• 2:39:51
  have given a lift ask Agra? More than one way to answer the
• 2:39:57
  fucking eye feels especially appropriate.
• 2:40:05
  Okay. Well, I'll answer it.
• 2:40:06
  I'll answer at the hamster way then.
• 2:40:12
  He's not, it's not Christmas Eves not really my type, but it
• 2:40:18
  depends on, you know, possibly not in the time of covid.
• 2:40:25
  That's a crayon. If it was Victor, there are
• 2:40:36
  other young men. I might give this to first, you
• 2:40:40
  know, but not scarecrow not maybe not a scarecrow, maybe not
• 2:40:43
  scarecrow. All right.
• 2:40:45
  Well that why I'm driving behind you.
• 2:40:46
  So sorry, not not unlike you, perhaps some members of the cast
• 2:40:54
  of The Curse of fenric, okay? Okay.
• 2:40:57
  That's is a Good. I'll sound.
• 2:41:00
  That is a is a leading question, isn't it?
• 2:41:03
  But, of course, you know, this is ba not Scag refer not scared
• 2:41:08
  for sensible reasons. And, and not actually, to be
• 2:41:11
  honest. How was he dressed funny.
• 2:41:13
  Yeah, in neither outfit. He is not, he is not
• 2:41:17
  flatteringly presented, you know, I'd give a little however,
• 2:41:20
  is that that fella from remembrance of the Daleks are
• 2:41:23
  now, he turns out to be a bit of a Nazi, but even so does Lee
• 2:41:26
  mcalinden, are while give him a lift, any day of the week.
• 2:41:31
  So we've got right off trying out. those them, you got a lot
• 2:41:34
  to ask for, I had Tom that right, he's coming on this thing
• 2:41:38
  at one point, while they're still doing this gaggle of this
• 2:41:41
  whole time with this felt since it's a lovely scene with all
• 2:41:45
  none of Far. Main characters have died.
• 2:41:49
  No goodies have perished in this permanently and off the doctor
• 2:41:52
  goes with Ramona. Maybe that's the problem then.
• 2:41:55
  Is that a problem? Well, it's wonderful.
• 2:41:58
  It's a big cut is a big cuddle, you know, it's lovely, you know,
• 2:42:02
  but then we've literally, we've gone round all of this to kind
• 2:42:08
  of all just sit back in the study where we started.
• 2:42:11
  Yeah, to be honest. Chris and Claire need to be in
• 2:42:14
  love. Really, that's what needs to
• 2:42:15
  have have. Oh, yes.
• 2:42:17
  For it to meet sit and cry. Notice needs and yeah and yeah.
• 2:42:21
  And credit crisis needs to us had some kind of Journey that he
• 2:42:27
  hasn't quite had other than the fact, you know that now the
• 2:42:29
  doctor knows he sell you avin, but maybe the doctor needed to
• 2:42:32
  have some kind of allusions to spelled as well.
• 2:42:35
  So I think there's another version of chartres out there,
• 2:42:38
  right by you. You know what?
• 2:42:41
  No, because I they did do that and I'll have no more dream you
• 2:42:43
  had set and T car. They go off in the ship at the
• 2:42:46
  end and you've got the Wedding March.
• 2:42:47
  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:42:48
  So it need maybe something like that but, you know, that's not
• 2:42:51
  all did it on. Oh my word.
• 2:42:54
  Okay, this is lovely told me. Fill in this sequence.
• 2:42:58
  What is he doesn't look a day older and that's the you
• 2:43:00
  wouldn't get this any other way and that's why this version, you
• 2:43:04
  know, which is my, this version is my favorite version and you
• 2:43:08
  wouldn't have got this. This is special in its own way.
• 2:43:11
  This is a wonderful, big cherry on top.
• 2:43:15
  It is troubling, is noticeably. The wonderful thing is, is if
• 2:43:18
  you shut your eyes, and this is why his work on big finish is so
• 2:43:23
  vital, you shut your eyes and listen to him in that last
• 2:43:26
  Saying it's still Tom Akers doctor.
• 2:43:29
  Oh yeah. Here's considering, he's the
• 2:43:31
  oldest of the surviving doctors vocally.
• 2:43:34
  He's the one who he's incredibly vocally resilient and has not
• 2:43:39
  changed very much and there's something I don't know why
• 2:43:42
  whenever their stories that leading into the Williams sort
• 2:43:47
  of Comedy, when he gets lots of pace, he died, do things like
• 2:43:50
  that. I just feel as the antimatter
• 2:43:54
  from Mary Tom's season. Yeah, the opening scenes of
• 2:43:58
  shadow of the sun like where where where he's getting and
• 2:44:01
  he's getting to be sort of, you know, Julian sand and sociable
• 2:44:06
  and very funny. I just feel like it's just step
• 2:44:09
  from the seventies into now it's, it's incredible.
• 2:44:13
  It's actually funny because Chris Eccleston and Tom Baker.
• 2:44:16
  They both like they both said, you know, it's kind of a thing,
• 2:44:18
  you kind of get made aware of when writing for them.
• 2:44:21
  But, you know, they're both really King, you know, on the
• 2:44:24
  doctor being this Joy. Joyful figure, who is traveling
• 2:44:28
  around the universe to have a good time, you know, and to, you
• 2:44:31
  know, to enjoy the universe. They're both as actors very keen
• 2:44:35
  on that. Sort of the doctors are about,
• 2:44:37
  you know, it's just a thing, they share.
• 2:44:39
  But that's something that sometimes a very big with Tom,
• 2:44:41
  he wants to be a doctor who is joyfully experiencing the
• 2:44:44
  universe and just occasionally has to put things right.
• 2:44:49
  That's because that is why I think your point about this,
• 2:44:52
  like being a good story for him, too.
• 2:44:56
  Palm Connor, think he loses a bit in the next year and yet
• 2:45:00
  it's is vibrant in season 17 that lost of traveling around
• 2:45:05
  the universe and having fun and knock about Adventures.
• 2:45:09
  You know, and I think in it gets a bit colder and a bit more
• 2:45:12
  scientific and a bit but more intellectual, perhaps, you know.
• 2:45:18
  Absolutely. I really enjoy a lot of it, but
• 2:45:20
  I yeah. Me too.
• 2:45:22
  Yeah, and that people were watching but I just kind of feel
• 2:45:25
  it. Straight away from my idea of
• 2:45:27
  what Doctor Who should be about. That's all yeah.
• 2:45:30
  Well, I like we have now gone the length and breadth of Shawna
• 2:45:34
  with a little help, our friends out The Other Side.
• 2:45:37
  Indy, thank you for the questions.
• 2:45:40
  Everyone? Really?
• 2:45:41
  Yeah, thank you for the questions of where apologize if
• 2:45:44
  the climax was a bit disappointing, but we didn't
• 2:45:46
  write the thing, right? Sorry, I would you, I just, I
• 2:45:51
  went straight to filth. Then why are you being so
• 2:45:54
  sometimes this thing in there? Yeah, the mrs.
• 2:45:59
  Slocombe of the podcast. I'll take it.
• 2:46:03
  I have you had a personality shirt.
• 2:46:05
  I think, you know what? I've got a puppet next door,
• 2:46:09
  which is called mrs. Slocum's pussy.
• 2:46:12
  They Mark, if their thing they really did.
• 2:46:15
  Okay. Will you then indulge me in
• 2:46:18
  selecting three, fabulous reasons?
• 2:46:22
  No, I know, we were a little hard on the second half of that.
• 2:46:26
  But we still have some Glory things to say to recommend this
• 2:46:30
  stories. People, if you start, I'll go
• 2:46:32
  second will go back and forth for your piece.
• 2:46:38
  And these are reasons to watch Sharda, right reasons?
• 2:46:40
  Yeah, yeah. Do you would recommend Charter?
• 2:46:44
  What chartres is perhaps the ultimate expression in Doctor
• 2:46:49
  Who form of all Douglas Adams, interests and concerns.
• 2:46:55
  I'd say that's, you know, if it's the it's, yeah, it's yeah.
• 2:47:00
  It's the, it's the most Douglas Adams e.
• 2:47:05
  Bit of Doctor Who you could possibly hope to experience all.
• 2:47:10
  I am going to say gray Williams who was Savvy enough to save
• 2:47:16
  money after two disastrous season climaxes in terms of
• 2:47:21
  budget and delivering that glorious location work in
• 2:47:25
  Cambridge, which is just the best this story, you know?
• 2:47:31
  Yes, absolutely. Absolutely Victoria book going
• 2:47:35
  looks very fetching in her neck, knitted dress and big 80s
• 2:47:40
  glasses. Oh, that's a goodie.
• 2:47:44
  I'm going to say that Douglas Adams Even if he is perhaps on
• 2:47:48
  autopilot a little bit towards the end of this boy, he can
• 2:47:53
  write dialogue in his sleep and I know their stories actually,
• 2:47:57
  his brother tells a story that he used to Hear him upstairs,
• 2:48:03
  attacking a typewriter like that, battering it to death, and
• 2:48:08
  then he just go and then you'd hear the thing being ripped out
• 2:48:13
  the paper. And then he'd start the whole
• 2:48:15
  scene again because he wasn't happy with the Dollar by the
• 2:48:18
  fellow. Was a bit of a perfectionist.
• 2:48:20
  Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well in the language that he
• 2:48:23
  uses is delightful. Tom and Lala.
• 2:48:30
  Oh God damn you. That's my third one God or
• 2:48:33
  really was that? Yeah, take it, take it.
• 2:48:38
  Oh, this is that will give me just open Lola.
• 2:48:41
  Yeah, that was it. I said we have been talking for
• 2:48:46
  years about this thing then my last one is going to be 0.
• 2:48:53
  I'm gonna say, Mark as who delivers, we watch this
• 2:48:56
  particular version of this and his Dudley Simpson s score for
• 2:49:01
  this. That I teach is so authentic and
• 2:49:05
  it adds that Kind of Perfect 70s touch.
• 2:49:09
  If the animation is getting a little bit stylish you've got
• 2:49:12
  that Dudley Simpson Style music they're reminding you that this
• 2:49:15
  is still season 17. Yeah I would say just just as a
• 2:49:19
  come an addendum like fourth Point sort of just the and that
• 2:49:23
  the animation on this is wonderful and it and it and it
• 2:49:26
  makes it something that the fully filmed version the fully
• 2:49:30
  recorded version rather would never have been.
• 2:49:33
  So, yeah II, enjoy the I know. And the animated version for
• 2:49:39
  what it is, as well, you know, it's it's a very, it's a very
• 2:49:43
  pleasant way to spend three hours or so, to answer.
• 2:49:47
  A, the question that was Friday you earlier from I think it's
• 2:49:50
  from davefrendy. They've some Fraser wasn't it
• 2:49:52
  about. What's your best version of?
• 2:49:56
  I think this is my personal favorite.
• 2:49:58
  I agree. Yeah, I uh yeah I agree as a
• 2:50:02
  viewing experience. Absolutely.
• 2:50:04
  Yeah, but the book made me laugh.
• 2:50:07
  Out loud on a train. I told you that story in the
• 2:50:09
  first half that ending of chapter with the time Lords.
• 2:50:12
  Swearing, I burst out laughing in public, Arthur I really do.
• 2:50:16
  And I'm sitting on the train and the big finish version with the
• 2:50:21
  Flash animation that they did, I think is really, really fun.
• 2:50:25
  It, make it shorter. I think it's quite condensed
• 2:50:28
  that version is it is, I've got the I've got on CD and it's a
• 2:50:34
  it's longer than the flash animated.
• 2:50:37
  Vision. Yeah, but that's that's a joyful
• 2:50:40
  one as well. But this, I would say, you
• 2:50:42
  really, if I were gonna pick three, I'd say, the, the novel,
• 2:50:47
  and it's fun. The audio, the audio book
• 2:50:50
  because it's fun. Having Lala read it to you the
• 2:50:53
  big finish version and this the 2017 animated version.
• 2:50:59
  They're the three in the three and three different media.
• 2:51:04
  They're kind of, you know, the that they're the ones.
• 2:51:07
  I choose to kind of allow to overlap in my imagination and
• 2:51:11
  memory to create the closest I can get to the perfect shorter,
• 2:51:16
  but then again, there's also the charter is shorter.
• 2:51:21
  Yes, it's like that. The platonic ideal of Sharda.
• 2:51:26
  That's when you try and reach and you're in your head, just
• 2:51:29
  bite, you know, experiencing all the, all the versions that do
• 2:51:32
  exit. This time there are many and
• 2:51:35
  then in your head, trying to just imagine the perfect version
• 2:51:39
  of that is still harder. Yeah, in fact, maybe that's the
• 2:51:42
  ultimate reason to watch Sharda is because Shard of doesn't
• 2:51:46
  exist.