Latest / Arroe Collins Like It's Live / Smarter Decisions VS Smart Schools Its A Choice Jared Cooney Horvath

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Smarter Decisions VS Smart Schools Its A Choice Jared Cooney Horvath · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 1: Twenty one different podcasts, not podcasts, episodes twenty one different
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  Speaker 1: podcasts with thousands of episodes attached to each. That's what
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  Speaker 1: aero dot net is. It is a podcast network a
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  Speaker 1: Enjoy your exploration. Good morning, how are you doing, sir?
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  Speaker 2: Good?
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  Speaker 3: How are you?
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely fantastic? And very excited to share a conversation with
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  Speaker 1: you because you're speaking my street on this. I realized
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  Speaker 1: that you know, the main subject is what is it
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  Speaker 1: doing to students? But I also want to know what
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  Speaker 1: this is doing to adults because I think information overload
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  Speaker 1: is turning this actually into lazy people. What is your
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  Speaker 1: perspective on that?
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  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you you nailed one of my favorite topics.
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  Speaker 3: I think we're really good at understanding the problems of
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  Speaker 3: not having enough information, but no one ever acknowledges the
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  Speaker 3: problems of having too much information. Once we get information overload,
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  Speaker 3: we start to lose coherence. We have no idea what
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  Speaker 3: is meaningful, what fits together? What shouldn't, and what you
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  Speaker 3: get is a fraying of social structures. So this is
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  Speaker 3: where you start to get political systems with contradictions just
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  Speaker 3: baked in left and right. This is where you get
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  Speaker 3: medical systems where you get complete different diagnoses from doctors
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  Speaker 3: who should have been trained the exact same way.
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  Speaker 2: And so this has.
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  Speaker 3: Always been what society or social structures did. It said, Look,
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  Speaker 3: since the printing press, we've had too much information. We're
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  Speaker 3: going to organize it for you. We're going to tell
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  Speaker 3: you what's important, what's not. This matters, this doesn't. Here's
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  Speaker 3: how it belongs together so that you can form an
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  Speaker 3: identity so that you can function in this society.
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  Speaker 2: And I think with the blow up.
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  Speaker 3: Of the Internet and now with AI, we're just losing
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  Speaker 3: that again, we're just losing any sense of coherence to anything.
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  Speaker 1: I want to know how schools can afford this, because
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  Speaker 1: my wife is a former school teacher and it always
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  Speaker 1: came out of her pocket. And how many teachers are
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  Speaker 1: having to fork out the money to keep their students
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  Speaker 1: alive here isn't that crazy?
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  Speaker 2: And then a lot of them are buying analog.
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  Speaker 3: The school is more than happy to buy a kid
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  Speaker 3: a computer, but not a pen and paper.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a.
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  Speaker 3: Lot of people are worried when we talk about kind
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  Speaker 3: of divesting from tech, saying all right, let's step back
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  Speaker 3: from the tech in schools, go back to what we
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  Speaker 3: know is better for learning. People say, how are we
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  Speaker 3: going to afford that. I was working with a school
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  Speaker 3: recently in Australia. We did a tech audit with them.
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  Speaker 3: Turns out they were spending over one million dollars a
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  Speaker 3: year on tech and subscriptions that no one was touching.
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  Speaker 3: So I said, there you go, you just saved a
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  Speaker 3: million dollars. That's how much do you think it's going
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  Speaker 3: to cost to buy you a printer? There you go,
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  Speaker 3: you just saved a bunch of money. Go hire some
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  Speaker 3: more teachers. So I think, yeah, a lot of money
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  Speaker 3: is going into the wrong direction. That we recoup that
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  Speaker 3: if we start going the right direction, and we can
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  Speaker 3: use that for better ways.
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  Speaker 1: Here's something that's got my attention and going in the
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  Speaker 1: wrong direction. And I noticed that a lot of parents
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  Speaker 1: are pulling their students even out of these special charter schools,
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  Speaker 1: and they're doing this thing called a co op. And
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  Speaker 1: it's all these parents coming together because they don't want
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  Speaker 1: to deal with the AI technology or the other technology.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, how dangerous is that when it comes to
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  Speaker 1: camaraderie and building up a child's imagination of learning how
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  Speaker 1: to collaborate.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, you've hit a really good point there as well,
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  Speaker 3: Like your questions are wonderful. There's a researcher back in
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  Speaker 3: the eighties named Graham Nutthall who said sixty percent of
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  Speaker 3: everything kids learn at school does not come from the teacher.
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  Speaker 3: It comes from their interaction with each other, pushing each
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  Speaker 3: other around on the playground fighting. When all of that
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  Speaker 3: time is replaced with a screen, none of that development occurs,
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  Speaker 3: and all these things that we call executive functioning skills,
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  Speaker 3: ability to inhibit your behaviors, ability to recognize and control
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  Speaker 3: your emotions, these disappear as well. This is why you
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  Speaker 3: can get teenage kids who don't know how to act
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  Speaker 3: in a movie theater, who don't know how to act
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  Speaker 3: at a dinner table because they've never been forced to
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  Speaker 3: learn it. And the place where they typically cut their
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  Speaker 3: teeth doing this school is now filled with tech. So
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  Speaker 3: as soon as you're in between classes, instead of kicking
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  Speaker 3: a ball with your friend, they go and they play
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  Speaker 3: video games. So yeah, it's not just the academic stuff
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  Speaker 3: that are losing the social stuff as well.
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  Speaker 2: Well.
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  Speaker 1: I think one of the most positive things that I
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  Speaker 1: like about chat GPT at least it gets a conversation
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  Speaker 1: started between people because one person's interpretation of a research
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  Speaker 1: compared to another. That at least is talk. I'll go
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  Speaker 1: for that. But it's when they do it as solo
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  Speaker 1: performers that I start to worry about that student.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you see, you see, there was a I
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  Speaker 3: was talking to a psychologist at a college university around
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  Speaker 3: here and she said, I've got this kid that I
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  Speaker 3: don't know how to work with. And the reason why
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  Speaker 3: is this kid fully admitted to using chatchibt to write
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  Speaker 3: his entrance essay as an exam suite. He uses chatchibt
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  Speaker 3: to do all of his assignments at school. He uses
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  Speaker 3: chatch ebt to write him stories and jokes to tell
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  Speaker 3: at parties when he goes out. She said, this kid
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  Speaker 3: doesn't exist, He has no identity. He's just farmed it
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  Speaker 3: completely out to the tool that he kind of copies
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  Speaker 3: paste and that's his life. And that is absolutely one
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  Speaker 3: of the scariest things is when we are now introducing
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  Speaker 3: a tool that is going to short circuit my ability
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  Speaker 3: to determine what do I genuinely like, what do I
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  Speaker 3: genuinely think? What do I genuinely understand? We're going to
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  Speaker 3: be left with people who have no coherent identity, and
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  Speaker 3: that'd be how do you talk to them? How do
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  Speaker 3: you teach them? How do you help them grow? Becomes
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  Speaker 3: a very tricky question.
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  Speaker 1: Well, man, that is one of my biggest things and
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  Speaker 1: challenges as an instructor because I teach broadcasting and my
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  Speaker 1: students are coming in there with that AI technology. They're
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  Speaker 1: letting the computer do the work for them, and I say,
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  Speaker 1: how about the human side of what you're trying to offer.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not knocking your skills with AI, but what about
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  Speaker 1: the human side of it? And you know what, all
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  Speaker 1: of a sudden, I'm labeled, well, you're just an old guy.
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  Speaker 1: What do you know? And it's like, you've got to
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  Speaker 1: be kidding me. Man, I swear to God, I'm trying
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  Speaker 1: to help you.
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  Speaker 3: People are mistaking the tool for the skill. The tool
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  Speaker 3: is not the skill. The tool is a way you
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  Speaker 3: demonstrate your skill. The skill is the skill. And so
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  Speaker 3: take something like AI. If you're already an expert, then
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  Speaker 3: you can use AI well because you can vet it immediately.
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  Speaker 3: If I type in something about stats, say I'm really
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  Speaker 3: good at stats, I can as soon as it pops
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  Speaker 3: out a number, I can tell you that's right, that's wrong,
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  Speaker 3: that's it. Must have hallucinated this. I typed in something wrong.
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  Speaker 3: I am driving the machine using my skills and knowledge.
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  Speaker 3: Students they don't have the expertise yet, they are learning
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  Speaker 3: how to become experts. In that instance, when they use
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  Speaker 3: the same tool we do, like AI, they're not using
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  Speaker 3: it to make their lives easier. They're all they're what
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  Speaker 3: we do, doing what we call outsourcing. They are using
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  Speaker 3: the tool to do everything for them, and the best
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  Speaker 3: they can do is copy it, paste it and smile,
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  Speaker 3: see if you liked it. And at no point where
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  Speaker 3: they learn the facts, where they learn the skills, the abilities.
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  Speaker 3: So I think we've got to put a hard line
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  Speaker 3: between digital tools are probably good for experts to make
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  Speaker 3: their lives easier, but the tools we use as experts
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  Speaker 3: to make our lives easier are never the tools you
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  Speaker 3: should give a novice who wants to learn how to
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  Speaker 3: become an expert. They need to go through the hard
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  Speaker 3: yards of learning the skill first and then bringing the
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  Speaker 3: tool in.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move. We'll be back with Jared Cooney
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  Speaker 1: Horvov coming up next. The name of the book, the
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  Speaker 1: Digital Delusion. We are back with Jared. The thing that
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  Speaker 1: really freaks me out is that, I mean, I'm always
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  Speaker 1: going to go back to the Oakland A's who use
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  Speaker 1: their analytics and their computers to find out how they
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  Speaker 1: were going to go on to win three World Series,
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  Speaker 1: And now we're staring at the Dodgers doing the same thing,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if they're using the same type of technology.
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  Speaker 1: And that scares the begbi's out of me too, because
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  Speaker 1: that takes the sport out of the sport.
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  Speaker 2: Well.
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  Speaker 3: I think the coolest thing about that, too, is that
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  Speaker 3: Moneyball didn't work when people actually go and look at
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  Speaker 3: the I don't remember the Oakland A's being the powerhouse
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  Speaker 3: team for decades. They won twenty one games in a
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  Speaker 3: row and then didn't even make it through the playoffs.
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  Speaker 2: Mate, it failed.
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  Speaker 3: I don't mean to be a butt heead, but I'm
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  Speaker 3: one of the few people who are like, why is
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  Speaker 3: everyone so excited about Moneyball?
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  Speaker 2: Wasn't a good plan? Yeh. You're right, we keep doing it.
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  Speaker 3: This is Does that mean we go back to I
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  Speaker 3: don't know, the dude with the fedora who says that
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  Speaker 3: kid I like the cut of his jib like. I
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  Speaker 3: don't know, but I think we can very much farm
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  Speaker 3: too much out to tech and when it comes to learning,
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  Speaker 3: we got to remember these aren't adults. They're not performing.
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  Speaker 3: I always say this, man, I've been a teacher for
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  Speaker 3: basically twenty years. I can count on one hand the
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  Speaker 3: number of times I've been surprised by something a kid
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  Speaker 3: does because they're learning. I'm not surprised because I know
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  Speaker 3: what stage they're at. I know what I expect them
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  Speaker 3: to say, and that's okay. I'm helping them become adults
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  Speaker 3: to the point where now they know enough that they.
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  Speaker 2: Can start surprising me.
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  Speaker 3: But I wouldn't expect that from a third grader, and
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  Speaker 3: I certain wouldn't expect it from a third grader using AI.
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  Speaker 3: So this is where we got to just kind of
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  Speaker 3: remember they're kids. They're not adults. They're not performing, they're
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  Speaker 3: not producing. They are learning, and we got to do
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  Speaker 3: what's best for that process.
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  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm the jerk. I won't use the smartboard in
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  Speaker 1: the classroom. I go to a Barnes and Noble and
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  Speaker 1: I said, you go in here and you find the book.
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  Speaker 1: Your answers are right here, and you will not find
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  Speaker 1: any answers until you put the energy into it. I'm
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  Speaker 1: the jerk, but I don't care. I just want them
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  Speaker 1: to learn the way that I did, so it will
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  Speaker 1: stay inside their noggin.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, look, if they were doing better than we were,
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  Speaker 3: then we could be having a very different conversation. We'd
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  Speaker 3: say why didn't we have tech when we were young?
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  Speaker 3: But they're the first generation in recorded history to underperform
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  Speaker 3: their parents. Gen Z is the first generation we know
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  Speaker 3: to dip below millennials. And that's not a good thing.
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  Speaker 3: We've never seen that before. And I don't know that
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  Speaker 3: that's what we want. Do we really want kids who
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  Speaker 3: can't read and do maths?
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  Speaker 2: That doesn't sound smart to me?
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  Speaker 1: Wow? The digital delusion? Where can people go to find
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  Speaker 1: out more about this? Because this is more than just
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  Speaker 1: this moment of now, It is something they've got to
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  Speaker 1: activate actate.
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  Speaker 2: I love it.
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  Speaker 3: Book is available everywhere and if you're really into learning
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  Speaker 3: and figuring out how does learning work and what can
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  Speaker 3: we do for it.
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  Speaker 2: This is That's what I tried to put in here.
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  Speaker 2: I love it.
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  Speaker 1: Please come back to this show anytime in the future.
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  Speaker 3: Man.
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  Speaker 1: I can relate with you, dude, because you're a teacher
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  Speaker 1: as well. You totally get that stage.
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  Speaker 3: Man.
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  Speaker 2: That is are you said you teach You've been teaching
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  Speaker 2: for a while.
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  Speaker 1: For af for for broadcasting. Yeah, and I've been nineteen
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  Speaker 1: eighty eight and to see the evolution of what has
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  Speaker 1: happened to radio and to say it's one of those
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  Speaker 1: things we talked about in eighty eight. Everything that's happening
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  Speaker 1: now is what we talked about, you know, almost forty
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  Speaker 1: years ago.
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  Speaker 2: Isn't that. And they think they're doing better because they
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  Speaker 2: just don't know any better.
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  Speaker 3: You're like, it was like if you study film and
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  Speaker 3: people are like, films today are awesome, and you're like, no,
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  Speaker 3: go watch some old films and they go, oh, these
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  Speaker 3: were pretty good, and you're like, yeah, this is what
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  Speaker 3: we're losing now.
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  Speaker 1: Oh God, please come back. Man. My conversation with you
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  Speaker 1: is never going to be done, trust me.
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  Speaker 2: I love it. Thank you, so keep up the awesome work.
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  Speaker 1: You'd be brilliant.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, sar, thank you. Have a good day Ahead, Thank you,