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We've All Got Them Family Secrets What Aren't You Sharing From Dani Shapiro · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 1: Here's something I want you to check out. Aro dot
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  Speaker 1: net A r r oe dot net. It is the
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  Speaker 1: power of choice, right there in the front seat of
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  Speaker 1: your car or right there at work. Twenty different podcasts
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  Speaker 1: on one network, one of the biggest one. Something our
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  Speaker 1: parents would say, you know, all those crazy things. Even
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  Speaker 1: your friend said it. It's got history. It didn't just
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  Speaker 1: come into their life last week. Something our parents would
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  Speaker 1: say only on ero dot net. A r r oe
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  Speaker 1: dot net. Enjoy your exploration. Hi, Danny Shapiro, how are
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  Speaker 1: you doing today?
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  Speaker 2: Hey er, how are you good to hear from you? Oh?
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  Speaker 1: My god, Just what you're doing is just amazing because
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  Speaker 1: it's so up my alley of trying to figure out
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  Speaker 1: how people can share their own personal legacies. And I
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  Speaker 1: think the fun part about it is is exactly what
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  Speaker 1: you're doing. And I realize it can be deep, dark,
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  Speaker 1: way out there to the right and stuff like that,
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  Speaker 1: But everybody has a family secret, and just the fact
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  Speaker 1: that you're willing to talk about it hopefully opens up
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  Speaker 1: the door for people to experience this in a way
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  Speaker 1: that gives them the opportunity to grow, rather than keep
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  Speaker 1: it a secret, because to me, that's stalling life.
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  Speaker 2: I think that's really true.
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  Speaker 3: And I also think it's the secret if you will
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  Speaker 3: to you know, this podcast going into its fourteenth season,
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  Speaker 3: because there are every family has a secret, and there's
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  Speaker 3: something about I mean, the thing about family secrets is
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  Speaker 3: it's not about like ooh, gotcha kind of rubbernecking, like
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  Speaker 3: like look at that horrible story.
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  Speaker 2: Thank god, that's not happening to me.
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  Speaker 3: It's more like this community has sprung up around this
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  Speaker 3: idea that we shouldn't, that secrets are you know, they're
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  Speaker 3: not good for us, and when we keep them, or
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  Speaker 3: when they're kept from us, or when even when we're
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  Speaker 3: keeping them from ourselves in some way, they're doing kind
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  Speaker 3: of a silent damage. And when they're spoken and shared,
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  Speaker 3: it just lets the light in. And I hear that
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  Speaker 3: over and over and over again from Family Secret listeners.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I would love to see the stories on the
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  Speaker 1: people that think that they're going to hold on to
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  Speaker 1: a family secret and they're going to be like me.
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  Speaker 1: And it lasted barely two years and then all of
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  Speaker 1: a sudden it's like, well, I guess it's out. There's
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  Speaker 1: no way that I but it was relief off my heart.
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  Speaker 1: But boy, when you release a family secret. Oh my god,
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  Speaker 1: and you have to live it, Danny.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I mean I live it. I've lived it in
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  Speaker 3: my own personal life. It's what's kind of funny and
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  Speaker 3: ironic and mysterious to me is that when I started
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  Speaker 3: this podcast, which is now started in twenty nineteen, so
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  Speaker 3: that's do the math, it's a lot of years ago.
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  Speaker 3: And it was because I had discovered, after years and
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  Speaker 3: years and years of a writer, as a writer writing
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  Speaker 3: my own novels about stories of family secrets and not
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  Speaker 3: even knowing why, I just it was my theme.
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  Speaker 2: I didn't even know why.
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  Speaker 3: And then I discovered that I was the family secret,
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  Speaker 3: and that my dad hadn't been my biological father, and
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  Speaker 3: that this had been my parents took this secret to
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  Speaker 3: the grave with them, and like many, many many other people,
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  Speaker 3: I learned by accident by doing just kind of a
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  Speaker 3: fun DNA test which turned out to be a shocking discovery.
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  Speaker 3: But that's happening right and left. It's happening absolutely everywhere
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  Speaker 3: we look.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, from.
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  Speaker 3: Twenty nineteen, when I wrote my memoir Inheritance, and when
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  Speaker 3: I started this podcast Family Secrets, it was still pretty
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  Speaker 3: unusual then to make that kind of seismic discovery. And
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  Speaker 3: in these years it's become you can't throw a stone
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  Speaker 3: without hitting somebody who's had a similar experience.
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  Speaker 1: Right. See, I can't do the DNA test, and the
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  Speaker 1: reason why is because it's a fear of I don't
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  Speaker 1: need any more. My dad was a wild child. I
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  Speaker 1: don't want to know his family secrets anymore. Because it's
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  Speaker 1: not that I'm growing tired of meeting family members that
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know that existed. I guess I'm just tired
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  Speaker 1: of just how many secrets there are tucked inside this
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  Speaker 1: closet with skeletons.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, No, it's like a it's like a Pandora's
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  Speaker 3: box or like one of those Russian nesting.
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  Speaker 2: Dolls that has like ever smaller dolls inside, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: and and it is, you.
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  Speaker 3: Know, one of the things that I've learned over these years,
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  Speaker 3: especially when it comes to the kind of family secret
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  Speaker 3: that you're talking about, where you discover new family members
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  Speaker 3: or new new people with whom you share you know, genetic,
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  Speaker 3: biological you know, DNA. One of the things that we
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  Speaker 3: tend to know or think we know when we're growing up,
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  Speaker 3: unless we're adopted and we know we're adopted, which is
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  Speaker 3: a whole different story. But otherwise, we think we know
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  Speaker 3: who our family is, and we think we think we
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  Speaker 3: know the perimeters of that family, like who's in it,
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  Speaker 3: who uncle you know, Uncle Josh is, and who Aunt
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  Speaker 3: Sylvia is. We think we know all of the information,
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  Speaker 3: who our cousins are, who our siblings are, who are
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  Speaker 3: half siblings are, who our parents are.
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  Speaker 2: And when that.
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  Speaker 3: Gets upended, or you know, the phone rings, or you
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  Speaker 3: open your email, or you get a text and it's
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  Speaker 3: somebody saying I think I'm related to you and they're
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  Speaker 3: a perfect stranger, that is a really upending thing to experience.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, until someone has experienced it, it's hard
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  Speaker 3: for them to like fully understand how world rocking that is.
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  Speaker 3: And yet more and more and more people exactly because
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  Speaker 3: of what you said, because you know, the unintended consequences
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  Speaker 3: of these DNA tests means that hundreds and hundreds of
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  Speaker 3: thousands of people are making those discoveries and they and
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  Speaker 3: they don't even know they're about to. They just get
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  Speaker 3: a stocking stuffer at Christmas time and at the DNA test,
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  Speaker 3: and they take it, their grandmas give it to them,
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  Speaker 3: and then suddenly their whole family is like whoa.
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  Speaker 1: How many loved children do you bump into? And what
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  Speaker 1: I mean by that is is that I still believe
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  Speaker 1: and I did accuse my mother several times, but she
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  Speaker 1: would ignore me. I always said that she had a
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  Speaker 1: love affair. And I'm the result of that because there
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  Speaker 1: are a lot of signals and signs there. First of all,
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  Speaker 1: just my name alone doesn't go with what she chose
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  Speaker 1: for all the other eight kids in the family. And
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  Speaker 1: I kept thinking, you you had a love affair, and
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  Speaker 1: I wish you, you know, I realized, Mom, you got
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  Speaker 1: this Jesus image about you and all that kind of stuff.
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  Speaker 1: But even Jesus, you know, hugged people that made mistakes.
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  Speaker 1: And I just and I think if I were to
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  Speaker 1: ever do a DNA test, would I And I know
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  Speaker 1: that you have to be going through this as well.
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  Speaker 1: People who are questioning what their parents did before they
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  Speaker 1: came into the.
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  Speaker 3: World, Well, absolutely, And you know, and even like this
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  Speaker 3: season on Family Secrets, there are stories that are very
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  Speaker 3: much like what you're talking about, where there's there are
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  Speaker 3: these discoveries, I mean, episodes that haven't that haven't dropped
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  Speaker 3: yet that I'm thinking and thinking of and it's it's
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  Speaker 3: such a it's such a powerful feeling, you know, like
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  Speaker 3: what you're describing arrow, like where you kind of know
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  Speaker 3: it in your gut, you know it, and and so
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  Speaker 3: it's like you know it and you wish you could
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  Speaker 3: just have like no pun intended, but like you wish
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  Speaker 3: you could have a come to Jesus moment with your mother,
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  Speaker 3: you know where where you know that was really a
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  Speaker 3: conversation that could be had or could have been had.
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  Speaker 3: And the thing is, I mean, there's so many great
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  Speaker 3: there's so much great language around secrets. You know, we're
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  Speaker 3: only as sick as our secrets. Or you know, secrets
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  Speaker 3: are like toxic poison or you know, when you bury something,
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  Speaker 3: you bury it alive. It's like it doesn't go away,
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  Speaker 3: it just gets kind of hidden. And you know, and
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  Speaker 3: I guess the thing I also feel. I used to
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  Speaker 3: ask this question of my guests all the time, and
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  Speaker 3: I haven't asked them in a while.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll start again.
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  Speaker 3: But at the end of every interview I used to
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  Speaker 3: ask them, do you wish you hadn't found out? Do
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  Speaker 3: you wish you I mean, but you know what, not
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  Speaker 3: a single guest in all of the times that I
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  Speaker 3: have asked that question in you know, twenty episodes a
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  Speaker 3: year times fourteen seasons. You know, it's like, that's a
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  Speaker 3: lot of people, and I have never once had anybody say, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I wish I hadn't found out.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Danny Shapiro coming
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  Speaker 1: up next. The name of the podcast Family Secrets. Oh boy,
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  Speaker 1: let's get back in there with Danny Shapiro. Danny, you
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  Speaker 1: really hit hard with something on this one where it
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  Speaker 1: talks about how a family secret affects the inheritance. I
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  Speaker 1: lived that and that's how I found out about Jamie
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  Speaker 1: and everybody else in the family, because all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 1: my father's inheritance was divided up against three more kids.
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  Speaker 1: And but then when you talk about it on here
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  Speaker 1: to me, it hits me even harder because A, first
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  Speaker 1: of all, I know I'm not alone on this, but
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  Speaker 1: b it's like, why does it have to do you
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  Speaker 1: ever ask that question? Why did it have to be
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  Speaker 1: a family secret?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I mean one of the things that I've thought
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  Speaker 3: a lot about since discovering my own family secret is
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  Speaker 3: our parents and our ancestors, our grandparents, and then further
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  Speaker 3: back they lived in such different times than we do,
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  Speaker 3: and so the rules and mores and rituals of their
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  Speaker 3: time were so different from ours. And there's so wherever
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  Speaker 3: there is a secret, any kind of secret, but maybe
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  Speaker 3: especially a family secret, there's shame underneath.
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  Speaker 2: And the shame is what creates.
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  Speaker 3: The silence or the feeling that people wouldn't understand or
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  Speaker 3: they'd be shunned, or this is such a shameful thing
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  Speaker 3: for this to have happened. And the thing is, we're human,
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  Speaker 3: and you know, human beings are flawed. You know, it's
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  Speaker 3: like we were born to live lives that are complicated
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  Speaker 3: and that you know, contain all sorts of you know, feelings, emotions, choices, actions, obsessions,
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  Speaker 3: and to especially now, I mean, what I really firmly
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  Speaker 3: believe is that anyone who chooses to keep a family
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  Speaker 3: secret sort of moving forward today in today's world is
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  Speaker 3: playing with fire, because there will be no more secrets
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  Speaker 3: at some point, because of the Internet, because of DNA tests,
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  Speaker 3: because there are cameras everywhere, because we don't live private
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  Speaker 3: lives anymore. And whether you like it or not, it's
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  Speaker 3: just the truth. Like that horse has fled the barn,
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  Speaker 3: and because of that, there is this way in which
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  Speaker 3: secrets cannot be kept. So it's our choice to say,
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  Speaker 3: do I want to carry this with me to the grave,
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  Speaker 3: or do I want to shed light on it so
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  Speaker 3: I can release the burdens of future generations.
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  Speaker 1: That's how I've been kind of breaking the story out
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  Speaker 1: to my grandkids is that they'll bring something up into
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  Speaker 1: con they'll go, did you do that? And you look
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  Speaker 1: at me, go, yeah, yeah, we did this. This this
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  Speaker 1: is what I had to go through. So it's almost
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  Speaker 1: like I'm waiting for nature to take its course. And
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  Speaker 1: I can't be the only one Danny that goes through this,
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  Speaker 1: because I mean, you've got somebody like Jackie. If any
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  Speaker 1: listener that goes into the Jackie story, you've got to
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  Speaker 1: take a pen and paper with you, because this woman
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  Speaker 1: had to learn from the inside out, and the way
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  Speaker 1: that you present that story is such a medicinal area
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  Speaker 1: because we all are living from the inside out right now,
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  Speaker 1: and we need leadership and we need to know how
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  Speaker 1: the hell Jackie did this.
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  Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. That's one of the reasons why
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  Speaker 3: I dropped that episode.
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  Speaker 2: So early in the season.
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  Speaker 3: And for your listeners, the episode is called Missus America
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  Speaker 3: and it's one of my it's one of my favorites ever.
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  Speaker 3: But one thing I really want to say is to
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  Speaker 3: you and to everyone listening.
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  Speaker 2: Is that if you are contending.
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  Speaker 3: With anything from something relatively subtle to a like mind
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  Speaker 3: blowing family secret, I'm here to say you are so
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  Speaker 3: far from alone. I mean, there is a reason, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: Family Secrets has over forty million downloads, why you know,
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  Speaker 3: I mean some of it. I'd like to take some
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  Speaker 3: credit for good storytelling, but mostly it's because family secrets
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  Speaker 3: man like, they are just there isn't a family that
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  Speaker 3: doesn't have them and that doesn't circle the wagons around them,
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  Speaker 3: and that maybe if a family is lucky, you know,
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  Speaker 3: a fresh breeze blows in, a window gets opened, and
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  Speaker 3: you know people are finally able to say, oh, honey,
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  Speaker 3: is that All you know is that you you know,
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  Speaker 3: you kept that? Like why why were you so ashamed
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  Speaker 3: and so terrified and so fearful of being seen as
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  Speaker 3: other or shunned that you felt like you needed to
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  Speaker 3: keep that to yourself? And it affects all of us.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well look at what it did with Jackie, because
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  Speaker 1: she's the girls girl. I mean, I mean, when you
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  Speaker 1: look at social media, and you see all of these
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  Speaker 1: selfies and stuff like that, they are no different than Jackie.
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  Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden something changes, and now
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  Speaker 1: Jackie's put in a position of what am I going
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  Speaker 1: to do next? How am I going to put this
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  Speaker 1: out there? Because I'm so used to being so real
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  Speaker 1: on social media?
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  Speaker 3: Right, and she's she's been extraordinarily brave, but you know, brave.
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  Speaker 3: But also it's like she had to. It had to
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  Speaker 3: go somewhere. It had to, Like I'm just picturing, you know,
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  Speaker 3: like a really like a weed growing up through a
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  Speaker 3: crack and a sidewalk, like it's reaching for the light,
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  Speaker 3: it's reaching for the sun.
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  Speaker 2: It is.
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  Speaker 3: It is the way of human nature and of nature
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  Speaker 3: of all living things, from weeds to you know, full
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  Speaker 3: fledged human beings that we long for there to just
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  Speaker 3: be truth and light.
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  Speaker 1: So how do you feel about people such as as
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  Speaker 1: my preacher Stephen Ferdick from Elevation Church, where he says,
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  Speaker 1: but trail started before you even got here, and you
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  Speaker 1: sit there and you go, oh crap, this means is
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  Speaker 1: a family secret. If those before me were already locked
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  Speaker 1: into betrayal, it's going to hit me some time upside
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  Speaker 1: the head.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and there's always someone who breaks the cycle.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, there is. That's what I want to be. That's
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  Speaker 1: exactly what I want to be. Thank you for saying that.
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  Speaker 3: It's always eventually.
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  Speaker 2: You know. Look, my parents.
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  Speaker 3: Died taking this secret about my paternity to the grave
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  Speaker 3: with them. They thought they thought it was safe.
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  Speaker 2: You know.
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  Speaker 3: They couldn't imagine a future in which, you know, you
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  Speaker 3: could spit into a tube and send it away through.
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  Speaker 2: The mail, and then all of a sudden, this.
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  Speaker 3: Thing that they worked over time to make sure I
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  Speaker 3: would never know, you know. And I like to think
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  Speaker 3: that I have their blessing in some way, or at
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  Speaker 3: least my dad's blessing. I like to think that in
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  Speaker 3: some way this was nothing but for the good. I
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  Speaker 3: am so grateful that I found this out because I
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  Speaker 3: always knew that there was something.
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  Speaker 2: From the time that I was a tiny child.
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  Speaker 3: I knew that something was different about me, Something didn't
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  Speaker 3: add up. There was some way in which I did
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  Speaker 3: not resemble the family that I came from, both physically
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  Speaker 3: and also kind of in terms of my disposition. I
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  Speaker 3: knew it, but I couldn't articulate it, because how could
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  Speaker 3: you think such a thing.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we can't.
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  Speaker 3: We can't suspect what we can't imagine, and I couldn't
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  Speaker 3: imagine it, so I never suspected it until it, you know,
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  Speaker 3: knocked me, you know, upside the head, like you're talking about.
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  Speaker 3: But in every in every like in multiple generations, you know,
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  Speaker 3: it's a story as old as the Bible. In multiple
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  Speaker 3: eventually there's someone who comes along who is just gonna
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  Speaker 3: is going to shed light on it.
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  Speaker 1: So what do you do in those situations? Because something
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  Speaker 1: tells my heart is telling me that you've been through this,
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  Speaker 1: and you you've had conversations with people when the biggest
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  Speaker 1: mistake in their life, which they have self proclaimed the
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  Speaker 1: biggest mistake in their life, goes on to change other
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  Speaker 1: people's lives. And I'll give you a good example. I
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  Speaker 1: did make a mistake. A child was brought into this world,
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  Speaker 1: but that child today is helping to save lives in
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  Speaker 1: the cancer world. He is in that lab every frickin' day.
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  Speaker 1: If I would not have chosen to make that mistake,
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  Speaker 1: that child would not be saving lives today. You have
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  Speaker 1: to be running into more stories like that.
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  Speaker 2: Oh that gives me chills.
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  Speaker 3: That and that's exactly it is like what does it
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  Speaker 3: mean a mistake?
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  Speaker 2: Right, like exactly, thank you.
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  Speaker 3: There's an old beautiful parable about an old farmer whose
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  Speaker 3: horse runs away and it's a terrible thing, and the
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  Speaker 3: villagers come over and say, oh, this is so terrible,
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  Speaker 3: and the farmer says, maybe good, maybe bad, who knows.
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  Speaker 3: And then the horse comes back and brings all these
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  Speaker 3: other horses with the horse, and the villager's over and
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  Speaker 3: they were like, oh, this is wonderful. This is let's celebrate.
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  Speaker 3: And the old farmer says, maybe good.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe bad, who knows.
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  Speaker 3: And then the farmer's son is riding the horse and
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  Speaker 3: falls off and breaks his leg, and the villagers come
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  Speaker 3: back over and says, say, oh, this is terrible. Your
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  Speaker 3: son has broken his leg. Maybe good, maybe bad, who knows.
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  Speaker 3: And then a war breaks out and all the young
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  Speaker 3: men of the village are being conscript conscripted to war,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: and the son isn't conscripted to war because he has
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: a broken.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Leg, you know. And on it goes, you know, maybe good,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: maybe bad, who knows. We don't know.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: So I mean, that's such a beautiful story that you know,
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: there's there's just we don't always see the miracles that
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: are in front of us in real time, and maybe
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: they're none of our business, and maybe maybe we never
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: see them. You might have lived your whole life and
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: not known that. And what a great thing that you
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: do know that.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Wow? Where can people go to find out more about you?
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Because I want them to tap into This is not
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: just a podcast to you, This is your life, this
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: is your style and your calling. Where can they go
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: to find out more about you?
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Thanks so.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: My Instagram, which I am very active on, is Danny
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: writer just at DA and I writer and Family Secrets
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: is you can you know, just get it wherever you
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: get your podcasts as the new season is up now.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: And my book about the experience of discovering my own
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: family secret, which was my tenth book, is called Inheritance,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: a memoir of genealogy, paternity and love.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: You got to come back to this show anytime in
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the future. You know that door is always going to
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: be open for you.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Danny, I always love talking to you.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, thank you you too.