Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #61 When Should Parents Step In?

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#61 When Should Parents Step In? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: This is a Happy Family's podcast with doctor Justin Coulson.
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  Speaker 2: We are Luke and Susie and this is the podcast
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  Speaker 2: for time poor parents who just want answers now.
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  Speaker 3: Melissa sent us this message. She said, my child, who
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  Speaker 3: is five, was punched in the face by another boy
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  Speaker 3: same age at school. I've said that I'll step in
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  Speaker 3: if something is not done, but how far should we go?
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  Speaker 3: When should we step in by not doing something? I
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  Speaker 3: feel like I'm telling my child that it's okay to
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  Speaker 3: have people walk all over you. I don't know whether
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  Speaker 3: the mother knows or not. It is a five year old,
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  Speaker 3: for goodness sake, How and when should I step in?
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  Speaker 3: Doctor Justin Coulson, This is not a happy family situation.
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  Speaker 3: This is a This is a mum who doesn't know
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  Speaker 3: the right thing to do. And you know what I
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  Speaker 3: reckon this four or five six years old is where
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  Speaker 3: we as parents learn so much about this very question.
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  Speaker 3: When do we step in? And when do we let
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  Speaker 3: our children figure stuff out?
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  Speaker 4: I think it's a sign of the very best parents.
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  Speaker 5: Ones who know when to step in and the ones
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  Speaker 5: who know when to step back, the ones who know
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  Speaker 5: when to talk, and the ones who know when to
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  Speaker 5: just be quiet.
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  Speaker 1: This is sounding like Kenny Rodgers. To hold him, when
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  Speaker 1: to walk away? No, when to run the parenting skills.
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  Speaker 3: I've learned in my time as parenting that there is
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  Speaker 3: some value to the kids law, letting children figure some
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  Speaker 3: things out by themselves.
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  Speaker 5: And ye, but says I've got to say when when
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  Speaker 5: a five year old punching another five year old on
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  Speaker 5: the face, its time.
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  Speaker 4: It's time to step in. Years have got to be
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  Speaker 4: involved in this.
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  Speaker 1: Ye, well, we say, we say so.
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  Speaker 2: The question is about when, when and how she should
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  Speaker 2: step in? What does stepping in look like? Because I
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  Speaker 2: guess on impulse, if your five year olds been punched
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  Speaker 2: in the face.
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  Speaker 4: You can find that five years old, you hold them
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  Speaker 4: against the wall.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, too far, it's usually susie. But what does stepping
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  Speaker 1: in actually look like?
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  Speaker 4: I think that it depends so much on the situation.
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  Speaker 5: I mean, if it happens in the backyard, then you
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  Speaker 5: step in and then you deal with it right there
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  Speaker 5: with the child, or perhaps the parents are there and
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  Speaker 5: you talk to the parents and say, we need to
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  Speaker 5: interact and we need to figure this out together. We've
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  Speaker 5: got to know this is not okay. If you're in
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  Speaker 5: a public place like a park, the situation's different. Perhaps
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  Speaker 5: their parents look far too scary, and when you walk
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  Speaker 5: towards them to talk about it, they grimace at you menacingly,
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  Speaker 5: and you get your child, get your keys, and you
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  Speaker 5: get in the car.
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  Speaker 4: Or maybe they'll actually come running as.
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  Speaker 5: Well and say, oh my goodness, and they won't be
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  Speaker 5: able to believe that their child's done that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think in that scenario where we're there
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  Speaker 3: and we see exactly what happens, it's almost easier to
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  Speaker 3: determine when to step in and when not. But what
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  Speaker 3: if it happens at school. You didn't see what happened
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  Speaker 3: around the event. You only heard from your child that
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  Speaker 3: they got punched in the face from another child. You
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  Speaker 3: don't know in Melissa's case, whether the other mum even
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  Speaker 3: knows that their child did this. What do you do?
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  Speaker 4: This is where it gets really tricky. The school's got
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  Speaker 4: to be involved.
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  Speaker 5: But I think one of the other challenges that we
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  Speaker 5: face here before we go jumping to conclusion. And I'm
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  Speaker 5: sure that Melissa and her family are wonderful, but we
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  Speaker 5: don't know. And this is not about blaming the victim.
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  Speaker 5: Getting punched in the face is not acceptable end of story. Ever,
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  Speaker 5: but it's also important for us to understand what's going
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  Speaker 5: on in the relationship, what's going on with that child,
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  Speaker 5: what's going on with our child.
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  Speaker 4: So I would want.
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  Speaker 5: To be sitting down or having the school sit down
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  Speaker 5: to really get what's going on. Has my child been
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  Speaker 5: unknowingly upsetting the other child and is there something that
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  Speaker 5: my child can learn from this. I just want to
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  Speaker 5: make sure that my child's doing the right thing. Again,
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  Speaker 5: not blaming the victim here, but just making sure that
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  Speaker 5: my child's doing the right thing.
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  Speaker 4: Second thing that we want to do is the school's got.
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  Speaker 5: To have some sort of a plan for responding to
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  Speaker 5: a child who is violent and aggressive. Now, this is
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  Speaker 5: the domain of schools, not the domain of parents.
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  Speaker 4: It's happened at school. The school needs to be able
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  Speaker 4: to deal with it, and this should especially at the
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  Speaker 4: age of five.
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  Speaker 5: This should usually involve the school letting the other parent
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  Speaker 5: know that this is what's gone on. It's so important though,
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  Speaker 5: that when that child goes home that mum or dad
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  Speaker 5: you know, of the perpetrator, don't say right, that's it.
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  Speaker 4: I'm going to put you through the world. You don't
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  Speaker 4: behave like this because I wonder where the kid's learning
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  Speaker 4: it from. If that's the case.
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  Speaker 5: As parents, if our child's are the boy, if our
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  Speaker 5: child's the aggressive one, we need to be able to
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  Speaker 5: sit down with that child and find out, well, where
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  Speaker 5: did this come from?
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  Speaker 4: Who showed you this?
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  Speaker 5: Have you been Have you been watching too many superhero movies?
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  Speaker 5: Research shows that boys in particular, are much more likely
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  Speaker 5: to be who exposed to those movies are much more
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  Speaker 5: likely to be violent. They don't pick up the pro
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  Speaker 5: social cues from the superheroes. They just get the violence.
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  Speaker 5: Or have they got a big brother or sister who's
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  Speaker 5: been beating them up? Or are they seeing some sort
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  Speaker 5: of violence in the home. Where has this come from?
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  Speaker 5: Maybe maybe they have some sort of a psycho pathology,
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  Speaker 5: some sort of psychological challenge that is impacting on their behavior.
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  Speaker 5: We need to understand what's going on in the background
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  Speaker 5: before we jump to conclusions and say this kid's are
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  Speaker 5: bad kid.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And before even all of those there's this assumption
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  Speaker 2: that they've picked it up from somewhere. I can talk
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  Speaker 2: from my perspective, not as a five year old, but
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  Speaker 2: as older I never saw violence in my home whatsoever.
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  Speaker 2: And did I watch some movies, Yes, but I was.
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  Speaker 2: I was a violent young teen. But I don't know
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  Speaker 2: that I can actually put it down to what I
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  Speaker 2: witnessed or saw as much as just an almost human
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  Speaker 2: instinct to someone who was scared. What I did was
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  Speaker 2: I actually tried to attack before I felt like I was.
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  Speaker 2: In hindsight, I can look at that now. There was
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  Speaker 2: fear going on in my life. There was instability. There
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  Speaker 2: was this relational stuff that made me act out in
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  Speaker 2: a certain way that wasn't It wasn't because I was
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  Speaker 2: a bad kid, or wasn't because I was naturally a
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  Speaker 2: violent kid or picked.
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  Speaker 1: Up habits per se. I was just trying.
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  Speaker 2: It was almost a self defense mechanism that was kicking
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  Speaker 2: in for me teenager.
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  Speaker 5: Developmentally, there's a big difference between a five year old
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  Speaker 5: and a teenager. And while it's still not acceptable even
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  Speaker 5: in a teenager, we have some fairly sound developmental understanding
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  Speaker 5: as to why that might be occurring.
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  Speaker 4: But for a five year old, it's not really.
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  Speaker 5: Normal behavior unless there's been some sort of modeling, or
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  Speaker 5: unless the child is frightened, scared, or very very upset, sad, worried,
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  Speaker 5: you know, and they're lashing out because of that.
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  Speaker 2: And let's face it, we've had three boys go through
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  Speaker 2: the five year old phase and just because they say
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  Speaker 2: someone punched them in the face, because we've witnessed the
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  Speaker 2: times where they said my brother punched me and he didn't.
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  Speaker 2: He turned around in his shoulder brush their cheek accidentally,
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  Speaker 2: and it was a very different thing that we saw
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  Speaker 2: to what they just said, such.
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  Speaker 4: A boy thing. Because I've got girls right now.
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  Speaker 5: I've had five of my six girls go through that
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  Speaker 5: same age group, and I've actually witnessed this where one
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  Speaker 5: of the girls walks past the other one and she
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  Speaker 5: goes because boys, boys punch right, boys are Boys are
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  Speaker 5: a lot more physical. Girls are a lot more verbal.
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  Speaker 5: And I've heard one of the girls say to the
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  Speaker 5: other one, but as soon as.
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  Speaker 6: She says that, the other girl goes, Dad, she just
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  Speaker 6: called me an idiot. She didn't say anything like that,
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  Speaker 6: she just said And they do they now. And again
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  Speaker 6: I'm not saying that Melissa's little boy is like punching
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  Speaker 6: the face. He may very well have been, But it's
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  Speaker 6: so important that we understand what's going on.
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  Speaker 1: Ask some questions before we ask the.
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  Speaker 5: Questions, get the school involved. If it's happened at school.
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  Speaker 5: Trust the teachers to deal with it. But we want
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  Speaker 5: to make sure that that child last point really important.
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  Speaker 5: We want to make sure that the school and the
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  Speaker 5: parents of that child are focused not on hurting him
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  Speaker 5: but on helping him.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely, And this is such a thing because
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  Speaker 2: we don't want to make a big deal out of
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  Speaker 2: something that turns out to be nothing. And so we
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  Speaker 2: can almost feel like if we get the school involved
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  Speaker 2: in the other kids parents involved, and it turns out
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  Speaker 2: it actually wasn't that big a deal, Like we've made
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  Speaker 2: an awkward situation for another kid because we've overreacted. But
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  Speaker 2: what you're saying is like, if we ask some questions,
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  Speaker 2: if we have some conversations, and we have the focus
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  Speaker 2: on let's just let's understand what's going on first and foremost,
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  Speaker 2: then it's actually not a big deal. It's just it's
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  Speaker 2: you know, sort of learning process for even the adults.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, look, being punched in the face, I still think
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  Speaker 5: is a big deal, But we don't want to make
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  Speaker 5: it huge and we don't want to turn this child
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  Speaker 5: into the into believing that he or she is.
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  Speaker 4: A is a bully.
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  Speaker 5: What we really want to move towards and the end
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  Speaker 5: goal here is helping the aggressor and the victim to
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  Speaker 5: have a sense of empathy, yes, to be able to
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  Speaker 5: take the other person'serspective, not just in this scenario, but
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  Speaker 5: in all scenarios moving forward, so that people can be
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  Speaker 5: a little more compassionate, a little kinder. Even at the
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  Speaker 5: age of five, they can think, hmm, this person's feeling
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  Speaker 5: like that, and this is a better way to behave Okay.
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  Speaker 2: So we're getting the school involved, we're getting the other
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  Speaker 2: child's parents involved, and we're having this conversation. Let's say
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  Speaker 2: at the end of that, everybody else says or says
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  Speaker 2: the right things, and then nothing happens and there's no
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  Speaker 2: ongoing and you feel like maybe it's not been taken
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  Speaker 2: as seriously as it should have been.
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  Speaker 1: Then like how much do you escalate?
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  Speaker 2: And how you because this is the thing, Like it's
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  Speaker 2: all okay while everybody else is doing what we think
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  Speaker 2: is appropriate, but we don't.
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  Speaker 1: Get to control other people's actions and responses.
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  Speaker 4: No, we don't.
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  Speaker 5: And while many many schools will do this very well,
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  Speaker 5: I hear too many stories of schools who are still
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  Speaker 5: struggling with this and who are not dealing with aggression
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  Speaker 5: or bullies and inappropriate behavior effectively enough that is it's
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  Speaker 5: still continuing. So my response to that would be, has
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  Speaker 5: the behavior stopped or is my child still feeling scared
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  Speaker 5: and anxious and being physically intimidated. If there's ongoing problems,
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  Speaker 5: if the problem clearly has not been addressed so that
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  Speaker 5: it is stopping, then you either go back to the
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  Speaker 5: school and say things need to change, or if you're
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  Speaker 5: and not everybody is, but if you're in a position
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  Speaker 5: where you have the resources or the freedom to choose,
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  Speaker 5: find somewhere else, because clearly that particular school might not
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  Speaker 5: be doing the job that they need to.
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  Speaker 2: So we had a wonderful experience sort of in the
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  Speaker 2: realm of this with our eight year old school recently
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  Speaker 2: where he got into.
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  Speaker 4: A tussle, a tussle over football, an alter case.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, child did not see idle, It.
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  Speaker 3: Was an incident and it did get physical. Our son
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  Speaker 3: was actively involved in that, as was the other child.
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  Speaker 3: School handled it absolutely beautifully, so very beautifully, and they
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  Speaker 3: have a time that basically if there is any physical
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  Speaker 3: contact in our school, purple slips straight away, which means
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  Speaker 3: you go to the room where there's a teacher and
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  Speaker 3: you have to talk it out. You were sat down
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  Speaker 3: with the child and you have to have a conversation,
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  Speaker 3: and both parents us sent a note home that has
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  Speaker 3: to be signed and returned to the school in order
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  Speaker 3: for the incident report to be closed off. So we
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  Speaker 3: only found out that this happened when the note came home.
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  Speaker 2: Because because our child had forgotten to tell us through
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  Speaker 2: the process. So they then followed it up to make
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  Speaker 2: sure that we knew and that we'd had the conversation.
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  Speaker 2: And in the end, when we got to them, they said, look,
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  Speaker 2: we believe the situation was sorted on the day, so
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  Speaker 2: that's why we're not.
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  Speaker 1: Panicked about it.
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  Speaker 2: We spoke to them, They apologized to each other. We
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  Speaker 2: didn't feel like it went too far.
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  Speaker 1: Everything was good. We just want you to know that
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  Speaker 1: it happened and consequence.
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  Speaker 4: Some things don't need to be turned into mountains.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.
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  Speaker 5: But when it keeps on going, that's when we've got
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  Speaker 5: to dive in. And it sounds like your school's doing
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  Speaker 5: a great job.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah they all did, Yeah exactly, If only they all
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  Speaker 3: did like that, And that's and that's it is. It
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  Speaker 3: takes a village to raise a child, and our school
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  Speaker 3: community is a part of that village, and we do
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  Speaker 3: need them on side, both to help our children where
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  Speaker 3: they're at the aggressor to learn a different way, and
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  Speaker 3: if our children, if our child is a victim, to
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  Speaker 3: help them actually survive or cope in that kind of
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  Speaker 3: environment as well.
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  Speaker 2: So the moral of the story is, if your five
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  Speaker 2: year old gets punched in the face, hunt down the
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  Speaker 2: other child.
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  Speaker 1: That's not where we are.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, doctor Justin Coulson, Happy families dot com, that are you.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks for kind of talking this out with us.
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  Speaker 1: We appreciate it.
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  Speaker 3: Great to be here, and there are loads of resources
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  Speaker 3: to help at happy families dot com dot au as
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  Speaker 3: you seek to be the best parent you can. And
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: if you think doctor Justin Coulson might be suitable to
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: speak at your school, event or organization, you can find
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: out more about how to book him in at Justinculson
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  Speaker 3: dot com.