Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Lifestyle Sacrifices You Make to be a Dance Professional

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Lifestyle Sacrifices You Make to be a Dance Professional · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Being a professional in the dance industry, no matter what realm, comes with a lot of sacrifice.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And while the reward can be well worth it, aspiring dance professionals need to be equipped with the realities of choosing this path.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_04: Hey Dance World, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Miller.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, Courtney.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, listeners.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_04: We are so excited for this week's episode.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, we are.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_04: This is one that I have kind of thrown into the mix and have mentioned a lot in our time of Making the Impact because I've been saying for a while we should do an episode on all of the sacrifices that dancers have to make to pursue a professional career.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's an honest and real conversation that we're about to give y'all because there are there are a lot of different types of sacrifices that you probably don't even think about.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we are here to talk all about them.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: We have multiple perspectives from Broadway dancers to teachers to parents and Courtney and myself.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's we're in for a really good episode today.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Before we jump right in, we have some Making the Impact Award winners to tell you about.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, we do.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: And these are our very first Making the Impact Award winners of the 2025 season, y'all.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_04: I know that if you've been a previous listener, you've listened to our podcast in the past two seasons since we've been awarding our Making the Impact Judges Choice Award at IDA affiliated competition events that is sponsored directly from us over here at the podcast and my company, Impact Dance Adjudicators, where we supply judges to dance competitions nationwide.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: And we work with over 15 different competitions who use our judges on their panels, and all of those competitions give away the Making the Impact Judges Choice Award.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that award is going to that one dance that the judges cannot stop thinking about by the end of the weekend.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: The IDA judges select it and it can go to any dance solo through production that they want to recognize.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the perks of winning the Making the Impact Award is you and your studio get a shout out on a future episode of our podcast.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: From Axis Dance Competitions Event in Sacramento, California, congrats to Elevate Dance Center from Vacaville, California for their duo trio, August.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: And from Axis Dance Competitions event in St.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: George, Utah, congrats to Baxter Dance Training from Washington, Utah for their large group, Busta.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations, everybody, and we can't wait to give more of these out this season.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and we can't also forget about our fantastic sponsors who help make making the impact possible.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_04: So let's hear from our sponsors.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: Join us for an unforgettable experience at the Dance Teacher Web Conference and Expo, taking place this summer at the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas from July 22nd to the 25th, where dance enthusiasts gather to elevate their teaching skills.
• 3:11
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• 3:18
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• 3:22
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• 3:29
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• 3:37
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• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: Plus, the Dance Teacher Web event connects you with other fellow educators and industry celebrities from around the world throughout their networking gatherings and parties during the week.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'll even be attending and teaching this year at the Dance Teacher Web Conference and would love to see you there.
• 3:57
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• 4:05
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• 4:15
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• 4:25
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• 4:35
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• 4:39
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• 4:44
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• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: All right, Dance World.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_04: We're jumping into a great episode topic today.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it's been one that's been on my mind because I think that it's really important for all of the listeners out there, especially for aspiring young dancers who want to become pro one day, to understand what type of sacrifices they may have to make in their life to pursue this as a career.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: I think this is true in any any style of work, any work that you do.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna have to make sacrifices, whether that's living in a place you don't want to live or working hours that you don't want to work or whatever the case may be.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: But I feel like in dance specifically, it's very, very different because obviously it's very competitive.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's highly competitive field to break into as a com a professional dancer.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_04: And you may have to move to a big city.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe you're from a small town and you don't want to live in these big cities to have to pursue it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um maybe you, maybe your job will take you away from your family for extended periods of time, and is and maybe that really excites you and you're really pumped about that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: But there's a lot of people who might not really realize that there's a lot more sacrifice that goes into making this an actual career.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: And we're gonna get real with y'all today on making the impact from a lot of new ex new voices on the pod and people who have experienced this firsthand.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: The first guest that I'm excited to welcome is a returning guest to our podcast, but it's been a hot second since they've been here because they go all the way back to season one, episode 23, Virtual Dance Classes, Navigating a New Way of Teaching, which was a pivot episode for us because hello, COVID hit.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_04: And next thing you know, we were all joining in on Zoom taking virtual dance classes.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a very interesting one.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: People still take virtual dance classes these days, so maybe, you know, go refresh your memory if you want to listen back and hear what we were chatting about in COVID times.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: And they are also a full-time dance teacher, an IDA judge, and a mom as well, to bring that perspective to the chat.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm excited to welcome Casey Carruthers to the podcast.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome, Casey.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_05: Hi, I'm so excited to be back with you guys.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_05: It's been a minute since we've chatted on the podcast.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I'm like super excited to get into this topic.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I know.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: I I was um really interested in having this perspective from you as someone who has worked professionally in the industry for many years, but now has also gotten married and you have kids now.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that is a perspective that Leslie and I both can't express from our journey in this dance world.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm uh grateful that you can share that with us today.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: So thanks for being here.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_04: And if you could share with everyone a little bit more about you, where you grew up, where you're based now, early dance training, career credits, what you're working on.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, go.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so I grew up in Virginia, Newport News.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm a far away from home now, but I uh went to college.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_05: I got my bachelor's in business actually, my minor in dance.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um but while I was in college, I was performing at Bush Gardens because it was there in Virginia.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_05: Such a great experience to dive into my like professional world.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_05: From there, I did second company with Giordano Dance Chicago.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_05: I've danced in Pigeon Forge, I've done cruise ships, other concert dance avenues.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_05: And then now currently, um, my husband and my babies, we all are in Orlando, Florida.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_05: So we've kind of migrated south.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_05: And for the last like, gosh, I guess I'm in my like seventh year of teaching here in Florida.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_05: So that's exciting.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_05: I've kind of pivoted into that scene, judging for IDA, choreographing, got my yoga certification.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_05: So kind of put that into the mix as well, teaching yoga.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, that's that's where I'm at now.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_04: Love it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, amazing.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thanks for joining us back on the pod.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm excited.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yay! All right, our next special guest is a brand new guest to our podcast.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: They are a New York City Broadway dancer who has done so many great things in her career.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: I love following her on Instagram.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_04: I've auditioned alongside her many, many times throughout our time in the New York City hustle and grind.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm very excited uh to have them here as well because they also teach at Broadway Dance Center and Steps on Broadway too.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_04: Broadway Dance Center and Steps on Broadway.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: So for all of our listeners, if you're ever in the New York City area, come take her amazing class.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: I'm excited to welcome Amanda Lamotte to the podcast.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome, Amanda.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, thank you all so much for having me.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to be here.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: You've had such a beautiful dance journey, and you're still performing currently on Broadway as well.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: And it's just uh it's really exciting to watch everything that you've achieved in your career.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that you, I'm sure, have made a lot of sacrifices to get to this point.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I am really thrilled that you're willing to come here and share it with all of our listeners.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a journey as a professional dancer.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's really rewarding, but there's lots to talk about on this topic.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think so, for sure.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: So Amanda, same thing.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: If you could tell the world more about you.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm from Orlando, Florida, Casey.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to come back and talk about the dance world in Orlando.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Orlando and I went to Florida State University and I got a BFA in musical theater right out of school.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I went on the Cats Tour for a year, and then I moved to the city and auditioned.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's about the time I met Courtney, I think, is after a tour and all the things getting into the grind of what it is to start your career as a dancer in New York City.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then I worked a lot regionally as a musical theater performer.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was very fortunate to make my Broadway debut in Matilda the Musical.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went on to do Hello Dolly and Kiss Me Kate and Music Man.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then most recently I was doing Once Upon a Mattress on Broadway.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: We just closed in January.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I didn't realize that show took you out west too, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we went to LA for four weeks.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_04: So cool.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: So it was like a Broadway run and then an a bonus LA run.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we kept calling it the Victory Lab.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_04: That is so great.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_04: Amazing.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I have to just throw this out there because like go shorty dancers.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_04: And Leslie's a shorty dancer.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_04: Katie, you're a shorty dancer too, aren't you?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_04: For sure.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_04: We this is a shorty dance podcast discussion.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: We are all like five, three, and under.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_04: And like when you said you made your Broadway debut in Matilda, I just immediately thought like that is the perfect job for shorty dancers because there's kids in the show.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure you understudied some of the kids.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was a swing and I covered 18 tracks.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I covered all of the young performers and all of the adult performers in the ensemble.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I went on for all of them by the time we closed.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there were times when I would split track.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I would be like one of the young kids in the school, and but then also be a salsa dancer.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd go from being like this sexy salsa dancer to like being 10 in the same show.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, something, this is crazy.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is really insane what I'm doing right now.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it was, you know, there are only a few people in the world who can do both and blend into both.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so when people ask me what it is to be a short dancer, I say when it works for you, it's gonna really work for you.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And when it doesn't, it's really not gonna.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Amanda, I followed your your track for years because I went in for that track and I was always like, man, Amanda's so good, but I wanted to book another show so I can go.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes, I never, I was like, I'm staying.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've there's like only like five of us, you know.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I also had learned so much.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: I had learned so much material.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm never leaving.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm never doing it.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I did all of these things.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't go on for all of them until the last week of the show.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So wow.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's wildish.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: Also, is that like legal?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, even it's not anymore.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, now the limit is 10.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: That's still too many, though.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's still too many.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And there's like the loophole of if you're the dance captain, like technically you can go on for anything because you because like save the show and you have to know everything because you're the dance captain.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but there's a difference.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god, this is a whole nother conversation.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_04: We did so for all of our listeners out there, we did do a swing episode last season where we had another Matilda veteran, Britney Nicholas, on the podcast.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: And she had a similar track to you, except she was on the national tour where she was swinging all of the kids and the adults.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: So very similar tracking there.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, to all of our listeners who are trying to understand what we're talking about when we're saying swinging a show, go give that episode a listen because it's a really great eye-opening discussion about what it what really goes down when being an understudy or a swing in Broadway shows.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_04: And we talked about concert dance as well.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let's jump into this chat because today we're talking about the sacrifices of being a professional dancer.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, where to even begin?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, y'all, thanks for being with us here today.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm so excited to hear about both of your different journeys because they're, you know, as as much as we all have in common, we all have very different perspectives.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that'll be really helpful for our specifically our parents and our aspiring professional dancers to hear.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, where to start, Courtney?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: I guess the first question I would have is just in general, tell me about what it's like to be a professional dancer and try to be a human at the same time.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because that is a big sacrifice that we all make.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you'll everybody has the t-shirt that says I can't have rehearsal.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's a big sacrifice.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Even kids know that because, you know, they always have to go to their rehearsal aside from the, you know, the Girl Scout meeting or the football game or whatever.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So do you have any any personal anecdotes to share in terms of trying to be a human and a professional?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was actually kind of worried about this discussion because I I sometimes worry that it's gonna come off as like, this is so hard.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't give up your whole entire life, like it's never gonna happen for you, and boo, this is hard.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's but conversely, like there is some truth to that.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it is important, especially for young dancers, to understand.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think, especially in the beginning of my career, the reason I had success is because I did sacrifice a lot.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I really became very tunnel-visioned when I first moved to the city.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think back about that time, and yes, I did go out with friends and have fun and and things like that, but it was usually dance-centered.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was going to class with my friends and then being like, oh, we'll get a coffee after.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or but I think that because I was so immersed in the world, I was creating connections and I was in the right places in the right time.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: That if I had decided what I really wanted to do was go to the movies all day and not take class, I wouldn't have met these people and I wouldn't have the snowball of it.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: However, I do think it is important.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, Gen Z has something great going on talking about the work-life balance.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I I see I I teach a lot I teach at the Institute for American Musical Theater, and I have a lot of young students who will come to me and say, Well, I want to go away, but there's an audition.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, you can't get the job if you don't show up.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not telling you you can't have a life, but if you want the job, you have to be there.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: No one's gonna give you the job if you don't go.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so those sacrifices you have to take on a case by case basis and say, what is more important to me?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: This vacation, this concert I didn't want to go to, this whatever, or potentially booking this job.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you also have to look at every single one of those things and say, but what if I don't get the job?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Will I be upset that I didn't go to the concert or the vacation or whatever?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_05: And I think to like piggyback off of that too, it's like, I feel like the your level of sacrifices, just in general, like being a human and having a life and then pursuing your career, like you were saying, Amanda, it's like when you when you first, I feel like it's more so when you're first getting started too, like that's when you're making like the most sacrifices because you're just if you like you said, it's like if you don't go to every audition that you can, and if you're not putting yourself out there, like you're never gonna get the job that you don't interview for.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_05: You don't, you're never gonna get the gig that you don't audition for.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like in my career too, like I found that, especially like in my young 20s, you know, when you're first starting out the most is because you're like, okay, the audition hustle is so real, and you gotta keep going if that's what you want.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_05: And then as you get older and you're more established, and then you can kind of hone in on the things that like, you know, what sacrifices do I want to make now versus like, I might have made that sacrifice when I was 20, but I'm not making it now.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_05: And and it changes like throughout your career.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_05: But I totally like agree.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_05: It's like when you first start out, if you're not putting in that work and unfortunately having to make some of those like social sacrifices, you know, you that you're not gonna get it if you're not there.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like it's always like a like I mean, I immediately think of the sacrifices just just the money struggle of being able to afford this this dream because you move to a city that's expensive.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: Because let's be real, if you want to pursue a professional career as a dancer, you have to, unfortunately, most mostly you have to be a New Yorker LA.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: You can do this in other places, yes.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: Is there more opportunity in New York and LA?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: And are those cities very expensive?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: So you have to figure out how do I live and pay for all of these expenses, my rent and my food.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: And what if you have an audition and there's but you have to go to work.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_04: Do you go to work to make the money or do you go to the what if audition?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_04: And that's like a sacrifice that you have to make.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: You lost a shift because you you got a callback, but the callback doesn't get you.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like you might not even get the job, you know?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: You have to like weigh those pros and cons.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I think like that for me, and and that is actually one of the biggest questions that I get asked when I'm mentoring dancers or dancers are first moving to the city.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how do you afford to do this?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_04: Because not everyone also has mommy and daddy paying for all of this.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: So you have to then learn how to budget your money.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: And do you are you putting your money to taking a dance class and continuing your education and having that also be your social time?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: Or are you going to the bar tonight instead and having a cute dinner and having a kiki out in New York City in the Lower East Side?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like you have to sacrifice, well, I'd rather go to this masterclass this week.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's what my budget's going towards.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I can't go have this fun little New York City adventure.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_04: You have you have to be willing to understand like why you're here and consume.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: I I mean, honestly, you do kind of consume your life around your entire dream and career, which is hard for people to wrap their head around.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of my favorite anecdotes of friends of mine who've lived in the city for a long time, back when I first lived here.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I had a friend that I worked with.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: She was more of an actor than a dancer, but you know, same same struggle.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she lived in a hallway.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like a railroad apartment.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them have like you enter and it's just like the little vestibule hallway, and then off to either side is all the actual rooms, but it's sort of like just the entrance.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: That is, she paid like$300 a month to set up an air mattress in in her friend's, you know, railroad apartment.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that is where she lived for like six months because that is what she could afford.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and she lived like six other people, you know, people were sharing rooms and they were in bunk beds, and like that's that's a sacrifice.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I see all these kids whose parents pay for them to have a beautiful apartment in LA or a single room somewhere.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, uh, good for you.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, more power to you.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: But Amy lived in a hallway, a hallway, and worked like three jobs and still auditioned and still like, you know, did her thing.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: But that's one of those very realistic things that might happen.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, what are you gonna do?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna live in a hallway or are you gonna go home?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes it comes down to going back to wherever you're from and making some more money and making some different choices and then coming back or living in a hallway and saying, you know what?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, I can't have a single apartment.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can't have a studio apartment because it costs$3,000 a month and I can't afford that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_05: And I I feel like I might have like a little bit of a different experience with this, like a unique experience.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_05: I actually, when I was auditioning, I chose to not live in the city.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_05: So I didn't live in New York, but I was constantly auditioning there.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_05: I was taking the train from Virginia to New York City anytime.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I knew the specific things I wanted to audition for.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: So I, you know, auditioning for different things, I wasn't auditioning for musicals.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_05: I just didn't have the training growing up, or I felt like I didn't at the time.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_05: That's another subject.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_05: But I was auditioning for like dance-specific things.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_05: So only, you know, dancer only tracks for things.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_05: So I would just like make this spreadsheet.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_05: Like, okay, these are the next auditions for the next six months that I want to go to.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_05: What's the train ticket gonna cost me versus living in New York City?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_05: So I would spend My money on the train.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I would literally go up, do the audition that day, like take a super early train, do that audition.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_05: If I got a call back, I would just like crash on a friend's couch in New York and then go to the callback and then hop back on that train and go back to Virginia.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_05: And I did that for, you know, a good chunk of time before I started booking things, but like very different from living in the city, obviously.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_05: Like I obviously didn't have the access to going to the dance classes and like, you know, getting, I wasn't in the scene.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_05: So maybe my career could have taken like a stronger path earlier on if I was in the scene.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_05: But that's just kind of the path that I took because I did the cost analysis and was like, you know what?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I can't afford to be there.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_05: So what I'm gonna do is commute into the city for every audition I want.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_05: So that's kind of like another, but another sacrifice of like that took a lot of time.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_05: Much more time.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_05: And being super organized and intentional about like what is it that I want to, you know, audition for?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_05: Because if an audition pops up, obviously I'm not in the city to go to it tomorrow.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_05: But there would be times when it would pop up, I have three days to get there.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um that happened a couple of times.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_05: I wanted to audition actually for like Universal down in Orlando.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_05: But those auditions, I'm sure as like Amanda knows, like those pop up days in advance.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_05: So you would have to be just on it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_05: And then do I have the funds to get a flight down there?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and especially before any kind of virtual submission.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_05: So that I I was kind of somebody who auditioned from afar, but like always found my way to like get there for the audition.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_04: But that's what you have to do.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I feel like there's so many dancers that I talk that I talk to now that like haven't made the move yet, but just think that they're gonna get a job by living where they're at and also not going to the things they need to go to.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, yeah, you can send in virtual.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's a thing now.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, self-tapes, virtual submissions, yes.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_04: Are you gonna get a job from them?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: Very rarely, very rarely, because everyone's doing that now.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone's sending it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: They're not, there's not anyone that's sitting watching all those auditions.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like, to guarantee that you get seen, you have to be in person to make sure that you have actually like gotten in front of the right people, you're making those connections, you're establishing those relationships.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: And the more frequently you get in front of them, then they're gonna remember you and they'll call back, call you back in.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_04: So it is a sacrifice if you're if you're able to make the commute.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_04: And like Virginia to New York, that is not close.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like, especially in Newport News, like Virginia Beach, that is a hike.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what a sacrifice you made to, but then like there was reward at the end because you did get some jobs out of it, you know?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_04: It actually paid off, which is what we're all hoping for.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Courtney, you said something earlier that I wanted to chat about because I think it's so interesting that we have this debate of do I go to the audition or do I take my shift of whatever?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a lot of my students will say to me, Well, what should my and I think we're not supposed to say survival job anymore.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're supposed to say like side job or whatever.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: But but whatever it is, you're what should my job be?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And my answer has always been it needs to be something that happens outside of the hours of auditioning 90% of the time.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I waited tables.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Did I want to wait tables?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Did I love it?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: But most of the time my shift didn't start until 4:30.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I could go to those auditions at 10 o'clock or 1 p.m.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And very, you know, infrequently I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna have to be late for work by 30 minutes and miss the shift meeting so that I can stay at this audition as late as possible.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I was still able to go to work and go to the auditions.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are babysitting and you're responsible for a tiny human who has to be picked up from school at 3 p.m., you can't say I'm gonna be late.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And while that might be more enjoyable and it might be more fun and all the things that fulfill you in a different way, can you actually go to the auditions?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because now if you're picking that kid up at three, you better be out of that audition by two.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you can only go to a 10 a.m.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: audition.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you didn't get a call back to dance.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you didn't get a call back.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like yeah, it's like crazy.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of the same.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't show up, you can't get the job.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a job that is paying your bills, it better be something that you can do and audition.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think another thing we we've been talking about, like our early time in the city.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think one thing for people to remember is that what you know, you come to the city, you have this dream, but you also need to establish yourself as somebody who's reliable.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if your survival job is, let's say, nannying during the day, you need to be on, you need to give them like six months of like, I'm here all the time.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can rely on me.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because that way, when you say, hey, I'm gonna start auditioning again, I have this friend who could be my backup if I ever have to have a callback and bail on you.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, here's this other person.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, give them a reason to want to keep you on.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that goes for waitering or whatever else you're gonna do.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think the minute people start hearing, oh, I'm an actor, oh, I'm a dancer, oh, I'm a performer, they even in New York City, they kind of want to go, oh, are you gonna be reliable?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can prove to them you're reliable beforehand and then give them the solutions to the problem they're going to have, then that might be the way to go.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: When I was waiting tables, I worked at the same restaurant for almost the entire time that I was before I I literally got the phone call about Matilda in the supply closet of restaurant.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: But they would let me go away for months at a time and do regional theater jobs and come back because they knew when I was there, I would work my butt off.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was always on the best shifts, not because I was like I was reliable.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: I if I was on that shift, I was gonna work my butt off until 2 a.m.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: and no no cause no problems.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I never complained, I, you know, all the things.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: So then I always had a job to come back to.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times, if you have a restaurant job and you go away for a contract, you know they're not gonna give it back to you because you probably just ditched them and left.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are that really reliable employee, they threw me a party when I got my Broadway debut.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: They went and got Smackery's cookies on my last shift.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that's if you can be that person for them, then they're gonna help you in your journey instead of fight you through it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's definitely a hard juggle.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's hard to figure that out and and find that source of income to help you live the dream of auditioning because I say it all the time.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_04: I consider myself, like in my years of a prof as a professional dancer, a professional auditioner more than a professional dancer.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: You are living in these cities, you are going to audition more than you're going to work, and that's just the unfortunate truth.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I I really try to get that point across and drive that home so frequently when I teach the next generation, because I think that everyone thinks that you're gonna move to LA and you're gonna book a job in the first six months.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: And the first three years are just gonna be you networking.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: You're probably not even gonna get the auditions that you want.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_04: You're probably not even gonna get into the rooms that you want to.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: Same thing in New York City.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't even book a job that I felt like was what I was reaching for, like goal-wise, for at least four years.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: I booked some things here and there, and like those jobs helped me live off that money.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: I got another resume credit.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: I saved all my money.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't while out on the contracts.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: I made sure that I was like saving.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: So when I moved back to the city, I didn't have to get our quote unquote survival job right away.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_04: I could live off of those funds for a while until that money ran dry.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then you start figuring out, okay, now what do where do I go from here?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a great, that's a great advice, uh, great bit of advice, Amanda, as far as finding a job that doesn't interfere with auditions because and we can talk about that if you've made any sacrifices when it comes to auditioning, like the removal of a shift.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: I how many times I was supposed to be on a flight at, you know, Friday morning to head to a competition and you get a call back.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, you and of course it's like the night before.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: You get the email.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: You're waiting to come back tomorrow.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, well, shoot, I have a 9 a.m.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: flight.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_04: What do I do?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like, truly, what do you do?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: Because I want that job.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to upset that employer.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: I have to change a flight.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's gonna cost a lot of money.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_04: They're gonna be in a pinch because now they're gonna need a judge last minute, and I'm gonna just show up late.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: I can't show up late.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna have to sacrifice that entire weekend of work just for this callback for me to come sing for one minute's time.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what I mean?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_04: And that's just so hard to wrap your head around as someone who already is struggling financially, as it is, because I don't have extra money to buy a new flight or pay a change fee.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: And then you have to really sit down and weigh those pros and cons.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_04: Is this really worth it?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: But then when you like there have been decisions that I've made where I'm like, nope, I'm sorry, not gonna go to the callback.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: Don't, I don't really think I'm gonna get it anyway.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm not gonna spend this money to do it.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I go take the job and then I sit there the whole time, like, what if, what if I what if I went?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_04: What if I went?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_04: What if that was my chance?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and that's a hard thing mentally to to deal with as well.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I had a similar thing when I was auditioning.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_05: I remember it was so silly, and I was in New York City, and I, this was like the second or third callback for a cruise line, and they had so many callbacks and why so many.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I so many.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_05: I couldn't tell you.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_05: And I got one more, but it was for the next morning, and I was flying out of New York City and go, I was literally going on a trip with friends, but it was at a time in my life where I didn't have the extra money to even pay like like the change fee was like hundreds of dollars to change my flight, then book a new flight.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_05: And at the end of the day, like financially, I was like, I'm gonna lose all this money and not go on a trip with my friends.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_05: And that was one example of a time where I did choose the, you know, my social or like my lifestyle over the audition.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_05: And to this day, like who knows what would have come of that?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_05: And I did kick myself a little bit at the time, like, oh my gosh, I should have just done it.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_05: I should have stayed in New York, I should have like ate the cost of everything.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_05: But at the end of the day, a couple weeks later, I got the gig that I wanted in the first place.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_05: So you just never know sometimes too.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_05: And you sometimes it's just a gut feeling, and you're like, Yeah, you know what?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna, I'm gonna choose this decision today.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe next week it's the audition I choose, or it's taking the gig or whatnot.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_05: And but sometimes it is saying no.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that that's also like, like you said, like that's so hard for us mentally, I feel like to do because we're so like trained, I feel like, to be like, yes, yes, yes.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_05: Cause it the more I say yes, the more that people will like me and the more that I'll be, you know, I'll get the next thing every time I say yes.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_05: And every now and then you're like, you know what?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I think I need to say no.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_05: And it's so, so hard.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_05: But I also think if you are really intentional about what it is you're auditioning for, if you're really intentional about what it is that you want, it's easier to say no to the things that you're like, you know what?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_05: Like this other thing is actually more important in this moment, and I'm okay with that.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_05: And then you have to just live with it and be okay with it.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_05: And that's sometimes really truly is like the hardest thing.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_05: It's like just being okay with whichever decision you made, going or not going, or taking the gig or not taking the gig.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you just have to know that, like, okay, what are the consequences?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_05: What were the cons of that?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_05: And like, am I okay with it?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, all right.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let's let's jump to another layer.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I think this is a big one.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_04: And it's impacted me a lot is having like a relationship, a life partner, someone that you want to share life with, yet you have this career that is very unpredictable, that can take you in a million different directions.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_04: You don't know when someone's gonna call and change your life and get the the the dream job.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: But also, what if that dream job takes you away from this cute, beautiful little life that you've created in this home that you've created, with your pets, with your significant other?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_04: Are you willing to sacrifice?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: Are they on board with it?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, there's there's a lot of questions here when it comes to managing a relationship in this lifestyle.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_04: Have y'all experienced anything like that?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I feel like um when my husband and I first met, we met on cruise ships.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_05: So, like, we already set ourselves up for like, you know, 5% chance of surviving because he is Australian.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_05: So we, you know, he's based out of Sydney and I live in Virginia.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_05: So from the start, it was like, oh, whoa, our lives are completely different, but but also not, yeah, like in the start of our relationship, you know, he when we first started dating, he got a gig to do an uh a national tour in the UK.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: So he was gone for like the first five months of our relationships, and we were just starting to date.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_05: So we didn't even know, like, do we like each other?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_05: Like, okay, you know, like let's date.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_05: Bye.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_05: See ya.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_05: And it was kind of like that up until we got married.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, we were constantly like, okay, I'm going on this next cruise ship gig.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_05: That's gonna be five or six months.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_05: You're also taking, he then took another cruise ship gig.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_05: So how does that overlap?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_05: Are we gonna have any time together?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_05: Are we okay with that amount of time?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_05: You know, we went five months apart, had one day in a port together.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_05: And then yeah, and then his contract is up, but mine still had two months left, kind of a thing.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_05: And it was just like a constant, I think at the end of the day, like you just have to communicate and you have to be like very like okay to like tell them how you feel about it.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like that could honestly be said about any issue in a relationship, but it's like if you communicate, like, hey, this is what I want to do, this is what you want to do.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_05: How are we feeling about that?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_05: Are we comfortable with it?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_05: And then finding that compromise with each other because it does add an element to it.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_05: Like, yeah, do I say no to this because it's too long and I don't want to be away from you?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_05: And then you feel like, oh my gosh, like, is this like stopping me from doing what I want?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_05: But no, like I love this person, I want to be with this person.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_05: And so, yeah, but I think if you're very upfront with it, you can make it work and like you're gonna make it through anything, and you both can pursue your dreams, but you have to be like really honest about what you're comfortable with.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_05: So that's kind of like what we have found, like in the early stages of our relationship, like before we got married.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_04: Great advice, yeah.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_04: Competition season is right around the corner.
• 36:30
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• 36:39
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• 36:43
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• 36:49
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• 37:00
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• 37:06
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• 37:30
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• 37:33
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• 37:35
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• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I met my husband.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was also on a Broadway show schedule.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: So for the first three, four up until COVID, we we were both on the same show schedule for years at a time.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing, which was magical.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And neither of us had to leave town.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was we we talk about it often that gosh, we we didn't know how good we had it.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: That we we got to just like play at the same time.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: But during COVID, my husband decided to leave the business.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and so now he has a normal nine to five is generous.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: It is really like eight to seven.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but then if I'm on a show schedule, he's done with his day and I've already left to go to the theater.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: You never see him.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I never see him.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then I get home from the show and I'm wired, and he's like, I gotta go to bed.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have to wake up at 6 a.m.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're like, okay, I'll get in the shower really fast so that we can go to bed.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it takes a lot more intentional planning of spending time together.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: We we don't even have the same day off often, you know.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: My day off would be on a Monday, and he has Saturday and Sundays off.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: So he makes the sacrifice to, you know, come down on his day off and he meets me between shows to have dinner.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or on Monday night, like that's like sacred night.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: We we I don't see other people on Monday nights.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's my time to hang out with him.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it takes more planning than it ever did before, but it's worth it.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And in terms of going out of town, again up until COVID, so lucky we never had to make that choice.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: But now it I I am fortunate that I'm in a place in my career where I can say I'm only going away for X, Y, and Z.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas before I would have been like, I have to take every job, I have to go.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't matter what it is, I gotta I gotta go.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm much more intentional about what I would go out of town for, you know, a Broadway show victory lap in LA.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you go.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's only four weeks, it's not so big of a deal.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: If I got to play a lead role somewhere out of town, yes, I go, that's worth it.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's um we'd figure it out somehow, some way, because he wants that for me.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and right now he works remotely, so he could come with me also, which makes it a lot easier.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's nice.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: But that won't be forever.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just constantly figuring it out together.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if you love each other and you want to be together, you will make it work.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's the right person for you, you will make it work.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: I know a lot of people whose like families have like gone on tour with them.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_04: They're like, let's go, you know, it's like the whole, the dog, the car, everybody.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like, we're we're living on tour because sometimes I I don't know, it's it's it is a hard, hard thing to navigate that side of this sacrifice.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: I've primarily been in a relationship my entire life, like adult life.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I've always been like, you know, having that be a constant struggle of what you were saying, Casey.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_04: Do I leave on this job?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_04: Do I go away on this on this gig because I don't want to leave this person for that long?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: But like a dream was to always book a national tour and you book it and you're so excited, and then you're like, I'm gonna be gone for nine months.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how do I see my partner?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: How do I see my pets?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that is a real feeling, and you're allowed to feel that.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_04: And it makes you question do I take this opportunity?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_04: It really does because it's uprooting your life.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: It is completely changing your life.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I have an apartment, I pay rent, I have a life here in New York that I have to be willing to let go of for nine months.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_04: That's not a short amount of time.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_04: And when I was younger, I was the same, I would be more flexible in that.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_04: When you get a little bit more older and you're getting settled, then you kind of start questioning.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_04: And, but then I start thinking, how many people want this job?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_04: And how lucky am I to have gotten this opportunity?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: Why should I say no to this?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like, no, I this is a once-in-a-lifetime job that I have to look at my whole life of a hundred years, hopefully.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: And that might be one year of that a hundred.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I would probably regret it if I didn't do it.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: So I should probably just, and I need to have someone that's going to support this and not make me feel guilty that I'm going and leaving them.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because my mom and my parents would always say, Well, I can't believe you would leave them.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_04: I think a lot of parents are gonna be like that.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_04: Well, what about them?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_04: What about your partner?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_04: What about your significant other?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_04: What about your boyfriend?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_04: What about your girlfriend?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, yes, what about them?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_04: They need to support the lot.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_04: They're driven and well, they can't do that.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Again, if they're the right, if they're the right person, they're gonna support your dream and want it for you, sometimes more than you even want it for yourself.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the collaboration of being in a partnership is to figure out how to make it work.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: And like, and if you do happen to come to the conclusion that it's not gonna work, then like that's that's also a conclusion you can come to, but it has to be an open dialogue.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things we haven't touched on in the relationship piece, which I want to bring up, is so I was not a partnered person for a very, very, very long time.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Only recently have I, you know, have become in a in a long-term stable relationship.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yay, Matt.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yay.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the hard part about that for me has been like letting myself believe that somebody else has my back.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was me, my finances, my job, my, my everything, just me for such a long time.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: And now, like he literally had to like shake me the other day and be like, this is not just your burden anymore.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: The finances are not your burden.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, you you don't have to take all these jobs because I've got you.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And not everybody's gonna have that particular financial aspect of it.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: But like, it is still very hard for me three years in to understand that like it is not just me anymore.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And because it was, I mean, and I think for a lot of dancers, it is that way.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: It is just you.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because maybe your parents can't help pay for anything.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can't if you don't have a partner.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: You do feel kind of like financially alone and sometimes just personally alone.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so to be able to relinquish that like need to do it yourself has been very difficult, but like really nice because okay, now I can sit back and say, like, wow, I have somebody to deal with this struggle of life, you know, in addition to the performing aspect, the auditioning aspect, the stress of that.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's somebody there to help me.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's that's just I hope I hope for that for everyone out there because it's been really nice and it's it was very unexpected.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_05: It's nice when you have like somebody who like can who understand or at least does their best if they're not in the industry to.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_05: understand and it's so so nice when like you just have their full support and they're and they don't make you feel bad about you know finding somebody who truly is like your cheerleader and they're like you go do what you want to do.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_05: We've talked about it and I'm proud of you and and during that time I'm not gonna then you know make you feel bad or like I'm here as your partner and like you said like I'm here to like take half the load yeah off and let's work together.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_05: And it that's just so nice.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_04: I also think that uh especially for young dancers who are listening or dancers who like decide to break into their career and you get any type of opportunity that excites you, I want you to do it and not think about all of the other aspects in your life that need to get figured out because again, like I said, this is only this might come around again, but like this came at this time for a reason in your life.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_04: And you might regret it if you say no just because of oh oh I want to hang out at home instead and oh I don't want to miss this event or whatever it is.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: Because sometimes and like that is a real thing.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_04: I know tons of friends that have like missed weddings and missed family reunions and who have missed so many major life events, even like funerals and things like sadly, you know, it's that is a real thing that sometimes you just can't get home for you're on a gig you can't like if you're across the world you can't make it in time or you you requested a day off and they did not approve it.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like that can happen.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: It also you can also like speak that out into the existence at the start of your contract.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_04: If you know you have a wedding to go to before you've even signed on the dotted line you can just let them know like yo thank you for the offer I want to take this job.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_04: I need two days off on this day to go to this wedding is this possible will you allow this and it might work in your favor but you also have to understand that like if they say no then what?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_04: What are you gonna do?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_04: Are you gonna what choice are you gonna make?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_04: That's a decision and a sacrifice that you're gonna have to make and hopefully there will be some understanding if you can't make the wedding and that I mean I know people who have truly said nope I'm not planning anything because I'm not missing this is the wedding of the century I'm not missing.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_04: I can't miss this wedding and that's a sacrifice so you have to make because maybe that dream job that you know you probably could have booked falls right in line with when that wedding is taking place.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: And it's a hard thing to to figure out but I encourage dance young dancers to go and take all of those jobs because also you're not getting any younger and our bodies don't last forever.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_04: So if there are those job opportunities that pop up that you you might get settled and not want to do it if it comes around again five years later.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: You might be you might be in a very different place in your life where you're looking back like darn I should have taken it five years ago.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: Now I'm not gonna take it anymore.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: And also work begets work.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are working you're gonna meet people I'm working on a gig right now that is from my first job out of college.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't worked with this person in 10 years.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: But now all of a sudden I have an opportunity because of that job that 10 years ago if you told me I'd be working with them doing this thing I'd be like that's too far away I would never think of that.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know so you just never know what you're turning down if it's not just that thing in that moment.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh that's such a good point.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yep great advice I want to pivot a little bit towards speaking of getting older because all of us are even you young dancers out there a lot of I think the person who had requested this episode had asked this specific question like, well what do you do if you want to have kids?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Can you still do all of this and have kids?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so Casey you are our resident mother.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to if you feel comfortable give us a little background on like your journey and how you how you are currently dealing with being a teacher and a mom.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah so it's interesting like um I think I have a a little bit of a unique experience kind of like entering motherhood because I got pregnant during COVID.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_05: So I in the moment of like starting to have kids, we didn't have to make I didn't have to make any career sacrifices because nothing was happening.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_05: So you know in in that moment also like no one knew what was going to happen is, you know, is it done forever like who knows?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_05: So in that sense like I had already transitioned into teaching maybe like one year prior to COVID and then but like still auditioning first off still kind of figuring things out but when everything shut down you know I was about to be 30 and my husband and I I always knew like in my 30s at some point like we want to have kids.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_05: And it the the opportunity just kind of presented itself just in a the perfect timing for us.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_05: So uniquely I didn't have to in that moment think of like oh if I get pregnant but I'm doing this show, like how's that gonna and I've I know so many friends who have had gone through that got pregnant in the middle of a show you know and and it just depends what role do you have?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_05: Are you a singer?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_05: Can you hide it with your costume?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_05: How does the company feel about it?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_05: So that there's a whole like you know slew of things that you have to go through that I have seen personally my friends go through.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_05: So every situation I think is like you know unique to that situation.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_05: But thankfully for me, you know, I could teach and have my baby and I think the biggest thing for me was like what is my lifestyle balance now that I've had a kid like I don't know what it's like to be a mom.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_05: I don't how much effort is this is this you know like I don't know everything's brand new.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_05: So post having my first baby I went right back into work like I'm teaching as many days at the studio as I did before I'm teaching yoga.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like I didn't slow down because that's all I knew.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_05: And I will say like it changed it definitely changed my perspective on a few things and one of them was oh my gosh like I can't go full steam ahead like I was before.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_05: If I also want to be at home spending time with my son, I there is some sacrifice there.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_05: It can't be the lifestyle isn't exactly the same anymore.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_05: Like there is a change.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_05: And not to say that like I I have friends who are still performing professionally and they have their babies and there's no issue with that.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_05: But there is like things do change.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not exactly the same.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I think for me it was finding like what is that balance?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_05: How many days a week do I want to be teaching how many days physically can I do it because the exhaustion of a newborn is like I can't even describe it.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's like you are just running absolutely on empty at all times for the first like 12 months of their life.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_05: On top of that going to work.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah it took me a minute the first year I taught a lot I was exhausted and then the second year I cut back and then I got pregnant with my second baby.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_05: So like then just add all of that into it.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_05: But I feel like now I have found a nice balance of like I work two or three days a week I teach I think the other um caveat to it is being more intentional with what I want to be teaching and what I'm doing outside of teaching as well.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I only want to be teaching these classes and this is the pay rate and only on these days.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I am now at a place where like I have to be that intentional about what I'm doing because my time is so much more valuable.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_05: Like if I'm not at home like if I'm gone it's time I'm not spending with my kids.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_05: And so yeah it kind of almost taught me to like stand up for myself a little bit more compensation wise you know like when I'm a teacher at competitions making sure that I'm getting paid and I know that's like a huge thing with you know a huge conversation but I had to really fight for that and I'm proud of myself for fighting for it because I was like I'm not I I can't go to weekends anymore taking away from my kids.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_05: I sure I would go every once in a while volunteer my time support my kids when I didn't have my own kids.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_05: But now it's like you know every moment away from them is valuable.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_05: So now I I need to be you know valued it's kind of a lesson that I wish I had learned earlier in life or I wish I had had like the strength to be like I deserve this.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_05: But it just took time and now I feel like that's kind of the positive to having this like like balance is like, okay, now the things I say yes to I'm super intentional with them and I'm making sure that I feel really good about I'm sacrificing the time with my kids.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_05: So am I what am I getting out of it?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_05: And I think I've now finally found that nice balance and it's taken a couple years but we are there and I wouldn't change anything for the world and I get to spend time with my kids and I get to have my career too and I think everybody's different and it's kind of trial and error like is this work?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_05: Do I am I comfortable being away this much?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_05: Am I am I stay at home mom and I'm like oh my gosh I can't do this.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_05: I need to go to work like you know you gotta kind of just like figure it out and everybody's different but I say just like trial and error like just keep going and figure it out.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_05: But you can have a career in dance and and you know and still have kids.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_05: I was still performing for like a contemporary company here all I was 13 weeks pregnant with my second baby and did like a performance.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_05: So like you can make it happen.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_05: It's just totally up to you and and kind of what you want.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_04: Wow yeah and you know I I do think that a lot of people will especially like when it comes to sacrificing timeline wise of their career will delay having children uh you know maybe you had dreams of having a kid at 25 but your career is booming right now and you're getting job after job after job and you're gonna have to delay that or or even relationship wise maybe you haven't found the person that you uh want to spend your life with and who's also supports your career.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_04: Plus like I said our bodies this is a physical career like this you know we're not sitting at a desk and I I think about that a lot at someone as someone who's 35 years old and everyone's always like all the time everyone asks you about babies because that's what you're if you don't have a baby by 35, who are you?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_04: What are you doing?
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know like in life you're just like a nobody if you don't have a child yet.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like first of all number one not everyone wants to have kids so there's it's like the rudest question to ask.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_04: It really is it really is number two you don't know their life so like second some people can't have kids.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_04: So that's again that's why it's rude.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then third like it's my life it's my business it's not your business.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: But like I've always thought of the fact that like this is like my body is my career.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: So if I have to have a child that's gonna be at least a year or more time that I can't really work at my full capacity.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: And this is how I make a living like I have other things that I do like this podcast right here where I can sit behind a computer but that's only one part of it.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like I am out every weekend making money on my feet teaching dancers.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_04: And if I'm pregnant that's gonna be really hard to do and then being out I don't get maternity leave I'm an independent contractor.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: Who's paying the bills?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like I barely have good healthcare you know there's so many aspects to think about when it comes to having a child as a dancer and I'm not saying you can't because Casey says you can and there are many other people that have made it work and have a good support system and even have help maybe in-laws are nearby and can help relieve the time of managing the child but it is very difficult and it's a mental aspect that I you know I I looked back in an interview I did recently 10 years ago and they said where do you see yourself in the future and I said I think I'm gonna be married and having kids.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_04: That is not true.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like you know yeah it's crazy.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_04: It's really interesting because your life takes I don't know I don't know where that came from like when I look back at that because I think I've never really been someone that's wanting to you know wanting to have kids not like I didn't have that urge.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone's like you're gonna feel it one day you're gonna want to have I'm like I don't know I like I like my life that I've created yeah and I'm just like waiting for that urge to come but like also as a female like time's a ticking you know you can't can't have a kid for forever.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's again like all this pressure like it's so much pressure.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's so Bernie I feel like I said the same thing.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah like 10 years ago I would have been like oh yeah I'm like living back living in Orlando I'm teaching I'm whatever whatever but then I'm in New York.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_05: Life happens yeah life it's crazy too it's like things kind of just you just kind of like go with what's happening in your life and like what where is your path in that moment?
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_05: How are you feeling with your partner and all those things and like I I actually have a couple of friends who just got married.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_05: They live in Orlando there's a new theme park opening and it opens later this a new like universal park and that's like the talk of the town right now is like everybody's like fighting for their lives to get booked into those like opening shows.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_05: And I have a couple of friends who have in the last year like we've really talked about it with them like they want to be pregnant.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_05: They want to start a family and they were like but if I get pregnant before this opening I'll lose my shot at having the job that I want and they were like and you know what and like and then add another you know six months to that to get back on your feet.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_05: And they're like by then there's not gonna be any openings I will have missed it.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_05: But when but there was also no definite timeline either.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_05: It was like this new park is opening so they were like I think I'll wait.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_05: I think we'll wait I don't know like what if I don't even get it but like I want to start you know trying to have a family and so I've seen it firsthand them kind of going through that process of like do we just wait and and then them thinking the same thing how old am I like what age am I at?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_05: Because there does get to a certain point where like your risks go up with pregnancy.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_05: And there's just all these factors to it.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like you know how do you know what to do?
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's when it goes back to like you just got to like go with your gut and like how are you feeling and just knowing that like it's not the end.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_05: So like if you have a kid you can still have a career but it's gonna look different.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_05: And you know there are sacrifices to that.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_05: You have to find childcare you have to pay for childcare in order to then go pursue your career.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_05: So there's all those added elements to it.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah but I I mean it's tough because I I see like all spectrums of it now with my my friends who are now like starting to become moms and we're all kind of like in our 30s we're all at that age like we're all thinking about it and doing it and stuff.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_05: And it's like you know I've seen all ranges of like I'm gonna wait because of my career.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna go for it but that means I'm sacrificing.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_05: And I just feel very fortunate that right before we decided to have a family that I did move into that that that teaching avenue and I'm fortunate that I love it because my babysitter calls out and can't come well then the boys are getting in the car and we're going to the dance studio and they have a great time.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_05: It's a stressful day for me but they have a great time I already get the job done and I'm very fortunate to have a job that my boss is 100% happy for those boys to be there every day if if I needed them to be.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_05: And you know that's a luxury in a almost in a opposite sense like that's a luxury of having a not nine to five sitting at a desk job because who can bring their kids to work every day and it'd be totally fine.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_05: Like nobody.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_05: So it's very nice that like I can strap a kid to me and when they were babies I did it and I taught with them on me.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_05: And that I guess that's kind of like a plus side to like the job that I have is you know kind of being able to be adaptable yeah in the in those situations.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well and even I mean even in New York City like and I'll shout out one of our previous guests uh Corey Petnod I have been sat her child at steps on Broadway while she was teaching in someone's office because she just needed she just needed an hour and a half of childcare and it was like hey you have a community here you know and like if anybody has listened to that episode like Corey has a resume that's like eons long and is still out there doing you know so much on Broadway and in the dance community up here and she has a child.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you know the community will rally around you if you have if you've created that community before you have a child um from my perspective at least.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: So for sure shout out shout out to Tiny Little Carver because he's so cute.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah yeah you know even just uh Amanda even just hearing you and your husband's schedule it's like how do you fit a kid in into that you know what I mean if you're a full time Broadway dancer and and the partner has a nine to five who's watching the like I guess it's like you know you watch it during the day and then he comes home and then he takes over at night but then you also don't see your partner and it's like it's just a crazy extra layer to to the madness.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the conversations in our household all the time because we're like I don't know like does not compute does not compute but but I you I think you will like you figure it out.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: We say people have been having families um you know since the dawn of time and they've always figured it out.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: So like you'll figure it out.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah yeah but I think there might not be easy right exactly it's not easy there are sacrifices that's what we're here to talk about.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_04: But you know I think the the most important thing is to just take a take a good look at like where you're at in your life and maybe if it wasn't like what you mapped out and planned and that was your goal setting life's gonna take you in a lot of different ways and a lot of different paths you have to just kind of be along for the ride and be willing.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's like a big part of life for anyone but especially life as a professional dancer because it's just truly so unpredictable.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_04: You get a phone call that changes your life like multiple years sometimes like you know you just don't know what's coming.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: It might happen overnight.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like you might have two days to pack a bag and go.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like we're just gonna go with it.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: I started Kiss Me Kate I got a phone call at 11 p.m to start the next day at 11 a.m 12 hours wild 12 hours and then I had a job every single day that I didn't think I had 11 like 12 hours earlier.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_04: And then you have to cancel the other jobs that you had lined up because you thought you didn't have a job and then you're hoping to not burn bridges with those people that you already set up work with, you know, and it's just like all like that snowball effect like you were saying earlier that happens and and it's even like the sacrifice of like what gig is better.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know like I feel like there's that too of okay well I have this gig and I love this gig, but then a better gig comes along well do I cancel on the gig that I thought was still great to take the better gig or do I say no I'm sorry better gig I'm already committed to this better gig and I don't want to burn the bridge because down the road it might not be a good idea for me to burn a bridge with this company versus that company.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a struggle too because there's a point once you get the jobs that you have to make those decisions as well.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_04: You're you know options are better than no options but you're also going to have to make a sacrifice when you're picking the options.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_04: The timelines might not might overlap.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_04: One pays more than the other do you take the high paying one do you take the one that's better for connections like all of those things are a big process and aspect as well that no one really talks about or thinks about yeah and I I think um like specifically with judging competitions too like you know when when those availability checks come out for you know through IDA, are you available for this competition?
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_05: For me, balancing that with my own kids competitions so like my kids compete this weekend I might not be required to be there that weekend but I have the choice to go and be paid or I can judge this weekend and oh which one do I do?
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_05: Like you know what I mean I'm like oh my gosh I I want Courtney to think I'm available for things I don't want her, you know, I don't want to burn my bridge with Courtney and say no and I don't want my boss to you know at my dance studio to be upset that I'm not gonna go and and then how do you balance those as well so even within like the you know the judging world too you know you making those sacrifices of like gig to gig you know which which gig should I be going to and how do you make that decision?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_04: So tough.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_04: Oh I really feel like we've covered a lot of different sides of this discussion and I'm sure we could continue on and have even more to share because there's just so much there's just so much.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_04: But uh but again kind of like where you where you started Amanda I know you were like I don't want this to come across as as this I mean honestly I think we need to have a real honest conversation and I think we did exactly that.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_04: As you know this might sound a lot harder than what you thought this glamorous life of being a dancer is.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_04: We always hear that dancers are like at the bottom they're paid the lowest they work the hardest um it's the most physically demanding job like this is all still very true and we're the ones that are sacrificing a lot to make this happen.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_04: So are so many artists.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a across the board with artists whether you are the principal singer in a show or if you are the bare minimum dancer in a show, those all of those artists sacrifice a lot to get there, to get to that point, to get that job.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's important to mention but it is, you know, hopefully there's some progress in dance and there is that luxury glamorous lifestyle that does exist, but it takes time and it's not going to come right away.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_04: And you have to put the work in and you have to be willing to sacrifice a lot to put the work in.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_04: And if you do, there's gonna be a reward.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_04: We've all experienced rewards in our careers as professionals and still to this day.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_04: And it's a really great feeling I feel like all the no's that we get, you know, you get the one yes and you're like yes it's worth it everything I've done to get here it's so worth it.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_04: But again I don't want dancers to feel discouraged and I don't want parents to feel like shoot my kid's not going to be a pro anymore.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_04: No, like Like they need a support system and they need parents who understand what they're walking into and supporting them through that and not giving them a hard time that they're not booking and not asking them what's your next job and those types of things.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_04: What's oh, you can't pay your rent?
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what are you doing?
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_04: Why are you there?
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like those types of questions, parents like I remember coming home and parents not understanding what I was doing in New York City.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like it was progress every time, you know, a little bit of progress for me to get to where I needed.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_04: And then once I finally got a job that felt big in their eyes, they're like, Oh, great, so proud of you.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I think I just hope that this encourages parents to support their dancers more and know like what they're really like the hustle that they're going through and the sacrifices that they're making once they become adults to pursue this as a career because they can do it.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_04: They just need a support system too.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_05: And I think when you're like a parent not in the industry too, it's so or you weren't you didn't grow up doing that.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_05: It's just totally foreign, but your kid is doing it.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_05: It is sometimes so hard for them to understand like what are all these no's.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember like my parents were so supportive.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_05: And my dad literally said to me after I, it was like after I booked a cruise contract, I think.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_05: So I've been doing tons of auditions at this point.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_05: And he said to me, he was like, Thank gosh you got this one.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_05: He was like, Because I think if you had gotten one more no, I probably would have asked you, like, all right, what you doing now?
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's time to it's time to pivot.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_05: And he was like, But I I knew you could do it, but you know what I mean?
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_05: It's like that's exactly what you were just saying.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, you know, if if that's their passion and and they're going for it and they're giving it their all, like the support is what they need the most because kids look to their parents, you know, and they're like, hey, is what I'm doing okay, especially at such a young age.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, if they're like questioning it, it kind of makes the kid question it too, like, yeah, maybe I'm not good enough, or yeah, maybe I should have gotten a yes by now, maybe I'm not so yeah, I don't know.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I think like just having that support in a healthy way, uh, it can go miles.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that if this is the thing you want to do, the sacrifices don't feel so crazy as hearing it on a podcast.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I when I was in college, Montego Glover came to our school and said, if there's something else you can do and be just as happy, you should go do that instead.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh dream killer, how could you say that?
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was so upset.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: But now that I've been in the industry for so long, I understand that for me, like during COVID, I was like, I'm gonna go into sustainability environmental science science.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I sat at a computer for a few weeks and I was like, I hate this.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is not for me.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would rather all of these sacrifices, I would rather all of the hardship than sit behind a computer every day of the week.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, for me, it's worth the sacrifices because there's nothing else that would bring me the joy that this does.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: Totally agree.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it and it sounds especially scary, I think, to parents who don't have that, not that they don't have a passion, but they don't have this passion to understand what it is to want something so badly that these sacrifices are worth it.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_04: We hope you enjoyed our latest episode all about sacrifices as a dance professional.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_04: Be sure to follow our guests on Instagram.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_04: You can find Amanda at Tiny Lamotte and Casey at Casey underscore carruthers.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_04: And also check out Amanda Lamot's Tiny Reels, an opportunity for dancers to get new footage for their dance reels.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_01: Learn more on her Instagram now.
• 1:09:20
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• 1:09:27
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• 1:09:33
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• 1:09:41
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• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_04: Attention All Dancers! Looking for some outside expertise to fine-tune your dance before hitting the competition stage this season?
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_04: Then check out IDA's Online Judges Critiques.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_04: Our seasoned judges will provide you with the video critique of your routine, just like you'd receive at competition.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_04: But with IDA's online judges critiques, we take it one step further with our post-critique additional feedback.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_04: Your judge will go through your routine again, pausing the video to give you even more detailed and personalized feedback.
• 1:10:18
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• 1:10:22
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• 1:10:28
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• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_04: Click the link in our show notes or visit our website at Impact Danceadjudicators.com slash online critiques to learn more and submit your dance today.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to season six of Making the Impact.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned for upcoming episodes on recovery from injuries, a day in the life of an NFL cheerleader, and our next genre spotlight episode.