Latest / ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact / The Work No One Sees with Rebekah Pierce

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The Work No One Sees with Rebekah Pierce · ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact

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The problem is, and the problem has always been that women are
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not nurtured outside of that. And inside of it, we're not
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given the tools, we're told to just figure it out.
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This is why we're very creative and intuitive, right?
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And we've had to figure out how to make this work for our
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charges and but mostly at the detriment of our own well-being.
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That's Rebecca Pierce, and this is Roar.
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Hi everybody. This is Danielle Davies, the
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host of ROAR. Today's guest is Rebecca Pierce,
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educator, author, veteran, and a womanist whose work sits at the
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intersection of teaching, healing, faith, and care, and my
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other things. Rebecca is the author of Before
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the Lesson Begins, a book that challenges one of our most
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deeply ingrained assumptions that learning should begin with
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productivity rather than humanity.
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Drawing from decades in the classroom, she argues that
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before content, before assessment, before performance,
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there must be breath, reflection, and affirmation.
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What makes this conversation especially aligned with ROAR is
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Rebecca's womanist lens. Womanism asks us to pay
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attention to who's doing the work of sustaining communities
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emotionally, relationally, and spiritually, especially in
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places in spaces shaped by inequality in education, that
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sustaining labor has long fallen to women, and disproportionately
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to women of color. This episode is about what it
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means to teach, lead, and advocate inside systems that
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were never designed for wholeness, and how women so
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often become the ones holding space, absorbing harm, and
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quietly creating conditions for others to survive and grow.
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Rebecca, welcome to ROAR. Thank you, that was a lovely
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intro. Oh thank you so much.
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I'm starting to think it's my it's my specialty.
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I was like if it nobody listens to anything else, just listen to
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the intro. I love it.
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It was good. I'm.
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Good. I'm so glad and thank you so
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much for being here. Oh, you're welcome.
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Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
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I. Appreciate it.
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Well, I'm just going to dive right in because I know that,
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you know, feminism's like, you know, a big catch all term and
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and I am a feminist. I consider myself a feminist,
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but you identify explicitly as a womanist, not just as an
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educator or an advocate or even a feminist.
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What does womanism give you intellectually or spiritually,
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that mainstream feminism doesn't?
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Well, feminism doesn't consider spirituality or individuality in
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terms of your connection to whatever you choose to call the
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energy that guides your life. God, the divine, Yahweh,
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whatever. I refer to it as God, of course,
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or the universe. And so feminism is really and
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believe me, I was a feminist too.
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I'm still partially feminist, right?
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But feminism does not allow for introspection on an individual
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level. And then to be able to bring
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that introspection, that self-awareness into the
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classroom and then attach it to curriculum.
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It it doesn't do that. Feminism only looks at gender
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equality, inequality, excuse me, and, and systems, but what
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womanism does is it allows you to go even further than that.
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How are these, how are people impacted by systems on both a
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spiritual level and emotional level, a physical level, a
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financial level? How are we impacted by that?
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And when you look at the classroom, that is the greatest
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micro microcosm for where you can see the impact of systems
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on, on individual learning, access to learning, but also as
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a group, the impact of a system that was designed to keep others
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out. You can see that impact in the
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classroom. And again, I teach at the
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collegiate level, but I started out in a public school teaching
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the high school English. And this is where I started
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seeing that there was a huge gap in being able to connect the
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individual to what it is that they're learning and why they're
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learning it. The why was missing just the,
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oh, we got to learn this today, but why?
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How is that connected to my own lived experiences?
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Especially when you're not saying like the why is to pass a
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test like? Exactly.
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And you know, passing a test is not always indicative of having
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learned anything. And you know, I say that to my
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students, if you get an A in my class, whether you get an A or
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AC, you know that you worked your butt off and you did the
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work. Because my class is not about a
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grade, it's about who you are as an individual that is connected
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to a community. So how can I bring you to the
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awareness of your individuality so that then you can be ready to
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receive what I'm about to teach you, the skills I'm about to
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give you. How can you do that?
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So womanism for me is all-encompassing.
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It looks at race, it looks at gender inequality, it looks at
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socioeconomic status. It looks at all of that and then
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says, but who am I as a human being?
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And, and, and what is my, what is my role in this world?
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What is my why? And how can I tell my story in a
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way that it it it belongs to me, but it also gives others
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permission to find their story and tell it as well?
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I love this. Thank you for the explanation
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because I was looking into it and it seems like it's like a
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more robust, I mean not not to just compare it, but a more
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robust. It is.
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It goes further, you know, because because I'm also a
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humanist. I mean, that's how I started
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teaching as a humanist. And you know, humanism looks at
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the humanity. That's what that's what you do.
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Look at the totality of the picture.
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Like how did we get here? So when you merge humanism with
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the microcosm, a little small piece of humanism, which is
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feminism, but then wrap it around womanism, that gives you
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a bigger picture of all of these things.
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And the and the little dot in the middle is the human being,
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the self. How is the self impacted by the
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outer circle? All these things that are out
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there, How does it allow you to grow?
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How does it stymie growth? You know, how, how does it do
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that? And that's, that's a big thing
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that's missing for young people. You know, I, I hear a lot of
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talk about, oh, young people don't know this and they don't
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feel that that's because nobody's teaching them context
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within the frame of all of this hoorah.
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Who am I in the middle of all this?
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Who do I want to be, who I need to be?
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And how do I get there? That's what's missing and that's
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what I feel. You know, womanism kind of
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allows. I mean, there's, there's
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different branches. You could say, I hate to say
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branches, but I consider myself a womanist ethicist.
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And then I'm looking at the ethics, the ethics of the human
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being. And then around that is
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leadership. How do you become and how are
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you an ethical leader? You know, and then of course,
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you have womanist theology and, and, you know, bringing in the
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spiritual context and all that. So, yeah, it does.
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It does have arms, but the overall reaching the overall
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umbrella is that womanism allows us to first look at self and
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then out. I love that.
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Thank you. I appreciate it.
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And, and Speaking of, you know, self and even coming from the
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perspective now of the educators who might read your book or the
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even just I think lay people would get a benefit from it.
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But you know, teaching is a profession dominated by women.
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It also requires constant emotional regulation.
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Having having been a 6th grade teacher, I can tell you that is
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what I lacked. That is why I'm no longer a
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teacher. How do you teach there?
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How do how do you see women educators being asked to carry
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far more than they're resourced or recognized for?
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It's destructive. It is destructive and the reason
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why teaching it is a heavily female dominated industry is
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because it's the only place they allowed women to go in the 1st
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place because women were supposed to be responsible for
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the nurturing of children. It's part of the women's fear
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philosophy of what the role of a woman was.
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It wasn't to be in public speaking or to be in these
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so-called male dominated world of you know, journalism,
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politics, blah blah blah. Our responsibility was to, let
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me rephrase that, the role of white women, the responsibility
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was to nurture the home and the children that are in the home.
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By extension, black women, particularly after slavery, our
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role was to almost do the same thing.
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That patriarchal, white patriarchal assumption about
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what a woman's role was now that black women were considered to
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be quote UN quote women, although partially in treatment,
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you know, that became our role too.
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And that and a lot of people say, well, that's because women
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are more nurturing. We do have multi emotions.
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We are able, we are able to see around the corner and and
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predict and make decisions based on what we think is around that
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corner, based on our lived experiences.
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So teaching by extension, becomes a quote UN quote, the
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role of the woman because it's about nurturing.
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The problem is, and the problem has always been that women are
9:05
not nurtured outside of that. And inside of it, we're not
9:09
given the tools, we're told to just figure it out.
9:12
This is why we're very creative and intuitive, right?
9:15
And we've had to figure out how to make this work for our
9:21
charges and but mostly at the detriment of our own well-being.
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Yeah. At the detriment of our own
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well-being, and that has been the biggest cross that we as
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women have carried, particularly in the field of education.
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And I say that that has to change because I cannot
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authentically and intentionally and in Wellness give what I do
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not have in my well to give. And so This is why teachers, you
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know, are dropping out. They're leaving their
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profession, why we're burned out while we're tired, while we're
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angry, while we're frustrated. And then this leads into why
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we're overstressed, why cardiovascular disease is the
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number one killer of black women in particular.
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You know why we're overeating, why we're obese, why we smoke,
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why we drink. You know these these effects of
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the of the cause, which is y'all just getting here figured out
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you're women, you'll figure it out.
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That is so harmful and that's with. 26 sets of eyes on you
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like why you know? Yes, 26 and it, and then and
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then with 26, not only 26 eyes, but 26 different stories.
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Yes, 26 different personalities, 26 different traumas, 26
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different lived experiences. How do you get a class to buy
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into growth and expansion and Wellness when the teacher isn't
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even well, Yeah, that's the question.
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How do you do? You can't.
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That's why the system is so broken.
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That's why these kids are, if they make it to me at the
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collegiate level, why they don't have reading skills intact where
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they should be. I have grown people reading at
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3rd, 4th grade level with assistants, writing at 3rd, 4th
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grade level with assistants. These young people don't know
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how to analyze rhetorical analysis.
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All they know is opinion. And that is an absolute no, no
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in the classroom. We're not here for your opinion.
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We're here for your position. What is your argument?
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What is the evidence to support it?
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How do you defend that? And when you have young people
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who are coming in the system that only that because they're
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tired, our teachers are tired of worn out and they're not
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supported. And and because they're coming
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from a system where the teachers are just like here, just go
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ahead and do this. Just just go ahead.
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Then they had they're not learning those skills in a way
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that is life sustaining. That is skill building.
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So when they come to our classes, a lot of teachers are
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not going to rebuild that skill. They're just going to press
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forward. And that means we have young
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people failing me. I just can't do that.
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You're going to we're going to I'm going to give you, I'm going
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to teach you and you're going to leave this classroom better than
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when you walk in it. But that also requires energy.
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It requires a love, a passion for what you do.
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But it also requires Wellness. I have to be well because.
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Yes, and I feel like I wasn't even prepared to ask you this
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and this is opening up a whole giant.
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This is potentially like 6 hour long conversation, but but I
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won't do that. I'll just, I'll just briefly
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touch on it because you've got obviously suggestions that are
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practical and personal and can be used in the classroom, but
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systemically in the nation, in the world.
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Do you have any thoughts? Because you're right, it's all
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just one cycle. I mean, I know as a young
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teacher, I was totally overwhelmed, totally afraid,
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literally without resources until physical resources, books,
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textbooks, until November of my starting year.
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The lack of support and it's, it is no one single persons fault.
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This is a systemic issue. It goes on and on and on.
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You can't blame one principal, one school.
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It's all intertwined so much and it and it, of course it leads to
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crises when people are older. It leads to a failing economy.
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It leads to everything stems from education.
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And so I'm just curious what your thoughts are on education
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as a whole. I realize this is not.
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Oh wow. Yeah.
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Just just curious. It's it's killing our young
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people. It is killing creativity.
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It is stifling joy. It is terrorizing children.
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I'm sorry. It is.
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It is 'cause when I, when I see these young people come to my
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classroom first week of school, these young people are legit
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broken. I mean, I, when I returned back
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into the classroom in 2022, excuse me, 2024, I literally
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witnessed young people falling apart at the slightest question.
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And I'm like, why are these babies falling apart?
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Because I'm asking them, what did they, why did you write
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that? Or how, what other way can we
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reframe them? And what I just, what I have
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come to believe is that is because they have no, no
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foundation of self. You know, COVID did a number, I
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think COVID really revealed the true depths and despair of the
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educational system in this country because we had students
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coming in that are just not there.
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And for me to answer the question is it's a hard, it's a
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load of question. It literally is one person at a
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time. I can't change the.
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I mean, when I first started teaching, I went in there like a
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lot of young teachers. Oh, I'm going to save the world.
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I'm going to save all the children.
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No ma'am, but I ended up doing my last year.
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I just it's relating. Go ahead.
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Right. And and that's the thing I think
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that's missing. We're not teaching teachers how
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to teach. We're not teaching teachers how
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to do that. We're not teaching them how to
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be cognizant of their own strengths and weaknesses and
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the, and the, and the fantasy and the illusion of what a
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teacher is. And so and so I had to come to
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the terms with, if I can get one young person to get that light
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bulb to go off for one young person in this entire school
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year, then I have done my job because all it takes is 1.
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If you can reach the one, then the one can go out and reach the
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many. And so it's always been my drive
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of I'm focusing on the students who want to learn, who want to
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be here. I can't save everybody, the rest
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of you, we don't want to be here.
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There's nothing I can do about that.
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But if I can get that one student to buy into what I'm
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offering, if I can continue to buy into what I'm offering, what
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I'm giving and what I'm receiving, then that that's the
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only thing that I can, that I can do.
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I can't, I, you know, this, this system, the educational system
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in this country is just, it was never founded.
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It was not founded on equal footing in the first place.
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I can get into a whole history of the educational system this
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United States of America as an English teacher.
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That's a whole 6 hour conversation right there.
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Exactly. Exactly.
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It was never founded on equality, just or at equal
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access to resources. And so we're already behind the
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8 ball. So what I feel in writing my
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book is that if I can just get the teacher, if I can get that
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one teacher, that one human being to buy into, I know I'm
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supposed to be here. This is my calling.
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But I'm tired, I'm worn out, I'm overwhelmed.
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How do I reconnect to get back into this?
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And for me, the answer is you've got to begin with self.
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You've got to start taking care of yourself mentally,
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spiritually, physically, because you cannot walk into that
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classroom broken. Quick pause, because if you're
17:36
listening to Roar, I have a feeling you're exactly the kind
17:38
of person I write for. I send out a Substack newsletter
17:41
where I go a little deeper, more personal stories, behind the
17:44
scenes thoughts, and honestly, some of the things we don't
17:47
always say out loud here. If you want to stay connected
17:49
between episodes, you can find it at Roar with
17:52
danielledavies.substack.com. I'd love to have you there.
17:56
And now back to your regularly scheduled podcast.
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This leads me back to your book. So you write about this, right?
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Leading with breath affirmations, reflection for,
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you know, before academic content, not just for the
18:09
students, but for the teacher, right?
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It helps everybody. But these practices are often
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treated as secondary, right? Even unnecessary within the
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traditional educational system. I-1 time was like, we're going
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to do yoga poses. My class, I was a very short
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lived teacher. Why do you think forms of care
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are so often associated with women?
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Why do you think these these thoughts, these forms of care
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are so often undervalued both in education and beyond?
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I mean, there's no doubt about the benefits.
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People done so many studies on the benefits of meditation after
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me self-care, it's taking care of oneself.
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But we we Pooh Pooh it like it's not that important.
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Well, I mean, for me, I can only speak for me.
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I've made it a requirement. I made it part of my curriculum,
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my syllabus. This is what this is my
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classroom. This, this is, I'll be honest,
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my students know day one, I'm the alpha and this is my space.
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And in this space, this is what we do.
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This is what we do and it's on your syllabus.
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We will begin every class with breath and affirmation and free
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writing. This has to be a habit.
19:25
You create a discipline structured moment for young
19:29
people because that's one of the things they're missing.
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They're missing structure consistency.
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They're missing that. And the teacher has to be
19:40
adamant that this is how my classroom will go.
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And we will do this regardless of what is happening externally
19:49
or internally because we need this in order for the lesson to
19:54
begin. We need this.
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My students need this moment. These kids are coming in rushed,
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pressed, stressed, overwhelmed. That doesn't make for an
20:05
effective learning environment that that that does not.
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So how do I get you to stop for a moment?
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How do I get you to just sit for a moment and close your eyes,
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relax your shoulders, put your phone down, close your tablet,
20:21
close your eyes, let your tongue rest at the bottom of your
20:25
mouth? And let's just breathe big
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breath in, exhale the next time you inhale, once you think of
20:37
something positive, Lovejoy, peace, understanding, whatever
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it is you need. And then on the exhale, get rid
20:42
of the garbage. Fear, worry, doubt.
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All right, now let's go into free writing.
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What's on your mind? If you don't know what's on your
20:53
mind, write that down. That's the first line.
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I don't know what's on my mind. And then they write for 5
20:59
minutes. Don't ask me if you can share.
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I don't want to know. That is between you and the
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paper. That's between you and spirit.
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I don't need to know. We don't share.
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We don't share. All right, 5 minutes.
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All right, here's your affirmation statement for today.
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I am the architect of my life. I build its foundation and I
21:20
choose its contents. What does that mean?
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Who has control over how your life goes?
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We do exactly what is the foundation of your of your
21:30
building. And that's where I get into, I
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talk about in the book gratitude versus grievance.
21:36
Did you wake up this morning was the first thing on your mind
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gratitude or grievance? Because whichever 1 you started
21:41
with, that's how your whole day is going to go.
21:44
So the foundation of your life is either gratitude or
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grievance. There's only two emotions.
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We come into this world with fear and love and everything
21:50
falls under one of those. Pick 1.
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So if your foundation is gratitude, then one of the
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contents that you are now putting into that building and
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and you have to stick with that because again, it's not just for
22:06
them, it's also for you, the teacher.
22:07
It is the reminder for you, the teacher of your why?
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Why am I here 'cause I shouldn't tell?
22:12
Don't get paid well. You're right, even just even
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just listening to you go through that, it settles the mind and it
22:23
settles you so that you are able to take on more.
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It's like that whole filled sponge thing, you know, like,
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but you know you. I love the writing component
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also. And I know writing essential to
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your pedagogy, like, but for women and girls in particular.
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And I realize you're writing for all students, but for, for, for
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our purposes, we're also specifically leaning towards
22:48
women and girls. How does reclaiming voice become
22:50
a form of survival? No, I don't like to say
22:53
survival, Thriving, thriving. How does it become a form of
22:57
thriving? It allows young women in
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particular to reconnect itself, 'cause I mean, again, I cannot
23:04
tell you how many young women come to this class, These girls,
23:08
I I have so many stories of young girls who are just.
23:14
I had one young lady last semester, born and raised in
23:17
Afghanistan, brought to this country.
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Yeah, I tell you how many times that young lady stood before me
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crying because of the conflict between her parents and what she
23:28
wanted. Now in America, because my class
23:30
challenges belief systems in ways that harm the individual,
23:37
but when you belong to a culture where women are not allowed to
23:39
have voice, my class can be quite challenging because I'm
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I'm giving you pieces, I'm giving you stories and I'm
23:47
giving you activities, opportunities that allow you to
23:50
tap into self. And I don't have all the
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answers. You have to figure out how do
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you now take that into your community that doesn't allow
24:00
that or that that looks down upon that.
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And you know that young lady, the last time I saw her, because
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she disappeared the last two weeks of class, the last thing
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she said to me was she gave me a hug and she cried.
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She was crying. She said, Miss Pierce, I wish
24:14
you were my mother. And it broke me because I know,
24:17
oh God, I'm probably gonna cry and think about it because
24:23
there's nothing I could do but to encourage her to just keep,
24:29
keep finding you, keep looking for you, keep reading, keep
24:34
writing, you know, keep present because it's so overwhelming
24:40
when these young women, they want so much for their lives,
24:44
but the gatekeepers have hidden the key.
24:48
And in some cases they have to re redesign a key, their own
24:52
unique key to that, to their lives.
24:54
And so I also say kind of going back to the breath work, what I
24:59
do for students who don't want to engage with that type of
25:02
process, I say to them, well, you will respect everyone else
25:06
in this class while we do this. If you don't want to participate
25:09
in the breath work, then you are to sit there and to remain quiet
25:12
until we are done because what we will not have is disrespect
25:16
of others choices. You don't have to participate,
25:20
but you must remain quiet because we are a collective, we
25:23
are a group. And in this class we are rolling
25:26
on this train together. So if you don't want to
25:29
participate, that is fine. I'm not going to be mad at you.
25:31
There's no grade for this. But I would hope that at some
25:34
point you would want to try this, right?
25:36
And so so for what you begin to see in the writing is that the
25:41
young women in particular, but but it's but even the young men,
25:45
they begin to express in their writing how this these
25:50
activities before the lesson activities have begun to help
25:55
them outside of the classroom recenter and gather themselves.
26:00
It's beginning to help them find a voice, their voice.
26:03
It's beginning to help them shape that voice, getting to
26:06
help them see that they have a voice and they can speak on
26:10
certain things. And so for young women, what
26:13
it's beginning to do is it's beginning to allow them to say,
26:16
Oh my God, I do matter. I matter more than I ever
26:21
thought. Yes, you do.
26:24
You do. And so it it's given, it's given
26:28
confidence by the end of 15 weeks.
26:30
I mean, again, how do you get 18 to 27 students to buy into this
26:33
type of activity for 15 weeks? You have to be persistent.
26:38
You have to be consistent. You cannot get off the track.
26:42
Every time we meet, this is what we're doing.
26:44
It's on the syllabus. This is what we're doing every
26:47
week, every. Time, you know, it's, it's
26:50
awesome because you're giving them like it's, it's in some
26:54
ways it's like creating focus, right?
26:57
Like so that they have focus, but it's also giving them the
26:59
space to like open up and breathe and and kind of get
27:04
clear on things. Especially, you know, you talked
27:06
about that that young woman and so many women here, even growing
27:11
up here are, are conditioned to be good, quiet, composed.
27:14
Don't be too much, don't speak up, you know, put yourself kind
27:19
of in the corner. I'm just all of a sudden thought
27:21
of baby in the corner. But what happens when girls are
27:24
given space to be fully human? And then connected to and then
27:29
connect them to stories where that is demonstrating.
27:32
So I talk a lot. I talk a couple times in a book
27:34
about how one of the first stories we read is so generous.
27:38
Ain't a woman. Now, this piece is powerful, not
27:43
just for the young girls, 'cause I'm gonna tell you, most of the
27:45
young men in my class gravitate to that speech by the time we're
27:48
done. Because what I show them in this
27:50
speech is this. How could a woman newly free
27:54
from slavery who sued, had the audacity to sue the United
27:59
States government to get her child back from her Master, from
28:02
the master saying that her child was sold illegally?
28:05
And not only to have the bravado to find a lawyer and go do that,
28:08
but to win. And then to say that God called
28:12
me to travel this country to speak against the evils of
28:17
gender inequality and race by extension.
28:21
And then for her to walk, because ain't no buses, there
28:24
ain't no train, ain't none of that in 1851, for her to walk to
28:28
Ohio, stand in front of that National Convention Center
28:33
building. And this is where I always stop
28:35
my students. And I say to them, what must she
28:38
have been thinking and saying to herself before she walked into
28:44
that building where she knew behind those doors was a group
28:47
of white men and white women that could immediately sell her
28:50
back into slavery? Because what law was just
28:53
instituted one year prior to 1851, one out of maybe 27
28:58
students knows the law. And that law is the Fugitive
29:00
Slave Law Act, which says you can snatch any colored person
29:04
off the street and sell it back into slavery.
29:07
So you got this big 6 foot and some change black woman who is
29:12
standing in front of this door. And on the other side is all
29:15
these white folks who could put her back into slavery.
29:20
And she's standing outside that door saying, I'm gonna, I'm
29:23
gonna go in here and I'm gonna demand to speak.
29:26
What had what kind of belief system did she have about
29:30
herself that she felt she could do that?
29:33
Who gave her the authority to do that?
29:39
What did we say? What did the kids say?
29:41
When you when you position it like that, what did they say?
29:45
They attach. It to these affirmation
29:47
statements because by then they've had like 4 weeks, 2 * a
29:52
week of an affirmation statement and they'll go find one that I
29:57
have given them and they'll say whatever it is that whichever
30:00
one speaks to them about her. But I have to, I say to what
30:03
kind of mindset did this woman have?
30:05
And then when she and I tell her that I said, picture it, the
30:08
door, she pushes that door open and everybody turns and in that
30:13
doorway is this big 6 foot 200, and some changed black woman who
30:17
walks boldly to the front of the room and says, may I speak?
30:24
And these people are they know who she is because her
30:27
reputation precedes her and nobody tells her no.
30:31
And she stands up there and the first thing she says is I am for
30:36
women's rights. Not I'm a slave, former slave,
30:40
not I'm a black woman, Negro woman, colored woman, but I am a
30:47
woman. And that is claiming of self.
30:52
No matter what anybody says about you, that is claiming of
30:55
self. And yeah, we go into, you know,
30:58
that this was really, you know, transcribed by another woman, a
31:02
white woman reporter. That was very rare for the time
31:06
for a white woman to be a reporter, to have that as her
31:08
job. And we go into these, you know,
31:10
I I do touch upon these different translations, but the
31:13
fact of the matter is everybody agrees that the opening was I am
31:16
a woman's rights. And so I say to them, if she can
31:20
do that in 1851, what, How many years ago was that?
31:23
And they'll say 160 in here. So this woman who had everything
31:28
against her, who risked her life to do that, can declare and
31:33
stand for who she knows herself to be.
31:36
Why can't you do the same thing in 2026?
31:40
Why can't you do that? Ain't nobody about to put you in
31:43
slavery. There are no, no, no, there are
31:47
no, you know, dangerous men waiting out the door to snatch
31:50
you and sell you back down to Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama.
31:55
What are the responses? I mean because this.
31:57
Is like they are intrigued by her and from then on all they
32:01
want to do is write by her to the point where I have to tell
32:03
my students you can only write about soldier the truth because
32:08
they begin to attach her to the to the discovery of their own
32:11
voices. Yes, and I must say, you know,
32:14
you are a phenomenal storyteller.
32:17
So how you approach this and how you tell a story has got to draw
32:22
them into and it, you know, everybody, anybody who's been
32:26
lucky enough to have an amazing teacher at some point in their
32:29
lives remembers these things, these lessons that you've gotten
32:34
and and you know, they're like little tiny highlights in your
32:38
life. And I'm sure that you're giving
32:39
that to your students through this.
32:42
But when, when institutions fail students, when they don't offer
32:48
this because this is, this is like a life changing stuff, like
32:51
what you're offering is life changing stuff.
32:53
When it's not like that, when the alternative is, you know,
32:56
you've got a teacher and and they're not all new teachers,
32:58
right? New teachers are everyone.
33:00
But some teachers have been they're like, I've been doing it
33:02
like this for 40 years. Yeah, and I'm sticking it.
33:04
This is the way it is. We come in, it's the blah blah,
33:07
blah, blah blah blah blah blah. Who's left to carry the
33:10
consequences of this? Unfortunately, and again, as as
33:15
I have to tell my students, and I've had former students come
33:20
back and say, Miss Pierce, sorry, who's my new English
33:23
teacher, She's nothing like you. I said, I already told you,
33:24
there ain't nobody else in the world like me.
33:29
You ain't gonna find ain't nobody if you are lucky to have
33:32
another teacher like me. God bless you.
33:33
Because listen, I had some great teachers.
33:36
My education was multicultural. I grew up in Stockton, CA in the
33:40
80s and the 90s around gangs and gang violence, gun violence,
33:45
drug violence. I speak to that a lot.
33:47
I let my students know, baby, I'm from the hood, I'm educated,
33:50
but I'm from the hood. And I.
33:51
She will come out when necessary, right?
33:55
But I had nominal teachers in high school.
33:59
I had two in particular, 2 white female teachers in high school,
34:04
Missus Sherry Pratt, Rest in Peace, and Missus Sarah
34:07
Davenport. Missus Pratt was my English
34:09
teacher and Missus Davenport was my history teacher.
34:12
And Missus Davenport is still alive and I sent her a copy of
34:14
my book, which I'm so excited I got to do that.
34:17
But they brought what these two women gave to us was permission
34:21
to find ourselves in the text. The way that Mrs. Pratt taught
34:25
English, I had an AP English, freshman English, the way that
34:29
she brought storytelling alive for us.
34:32
And the way that Mrs. Davenport, even with the constrictions then
34:35
about teaching history, she allowed us to find ourselves in
34:40
the text. And then to bring that in the
34:41
classroom was like potlucks and bringing in different foods and
34:45
stories from each of our different cultures because it
34:47
was a multicultural high school. And both of these women marched
34:51
for women's rights in the 60s, civil rights and women's rights.
34:55
So I had a foundation of teachers who were like, we ain't
34:59
taking them back. And then my 7th grade teacher,
35:03
Missus Knight, Miss Knight, 8th grade English teacher, teaching
35:06
this night. She was also phenomenal.
35:08
And then when I went on to college, you know, San Francisco
35:11
State is where, well, I started at UC Santa Barbara.
35:15
I had teachers from all over the world.
35:17
I had teachers from Africa. I had teachers from Scotland,
35:20
from England, and these teachers were renowned experts in their
35:24
craft. So I had one teacher who's a
35:25
renowned expert in Frederick Douglass, and yes, I did
35:27
challenge him and he loved it. I had questions because I had
35:30
never heard of Frederick Douglass.
35:31
Unfortunately, I had teachers who I had English, the teachers
35:39
that gave us 5 of it because they allowed us to understand
35:42
context. And then at San Francisco State,
35:44
I had a law professor who really cemented everything for me and
35:47
showed me how to further draw in context into the instruction.
35:53
So the ability to tell stories, this is the teachers investment
35:57
on trying to find out who these people were.
36:00
This is called live or lived teaching lived history.
36:05
Don't teach these people as if they were not real.
36:09
You need to give context. Again, what law was going on
36:13
that made the situation dangerous for Sojourner?
36:17
The Missouri Compromise, the Fugitive Slave Law Act, What was
36:21
going on in one of the other pieces I gave them that I talked
36:24
about was Aaron Aubrey Kaplan's Black Flag.
36:26
I thought I was, which is a non fiction piece.
36:29
What was going on in the 80s, excuse me, in the late 90s,
36:31
early 2000s with the creation of at home DNA tests, the census,
36:38
What did the census tell us in the early 2000 that the country
36:40
was going to be what by 2040? Primarily Brown.
36:45
And then all of a sudden you start seeing these changes in
36:47
laws and access, why it's a response to that census, that
36:53
data saying that this country is going to be predominantly brown.
36:56
And so you unfortunately, it does fall on the teacher to find
37:01
the connections between the text, the lived experiences of
37:06
the people that they're teaching and then connect that to the
37:09
students. I I really don't like that
37:12
students, if I say what happened to 1865 have them were like the
37:17
Civil War ended. OK, Did it really?
37:22
You know what? Imagine.
37:24
What does it mean? Yeah, you're like.
37:26
It's why the context like why did the Emancipation
37:31
Proclamation truly free anyone? Y'all better read the language.
37:34
It did not. It did not.
37:38
But you got to ask yourself, why would Abraham Lincoln establish
37:40
such a such a doctrine? What was he doing?
37:44
What's going on? And again, that's why I give,
37:47
you know, my book. I talk about the art of writing.
37:50
And the fifth one is writers write about what's happening in
37:53
their world. So if I'm going to give you this
37:55
story from 1851, I need to be able to explain to you what was
38:01
happening in 1851 because writers write about what's
38:05
happening in the world. That is what's missing an
38:08
instruction. Today.
38:09
Teachers are rushed and pressed to just push kids out the door.
38:14
And it is a you have to fight to say, no, I'm not pushing these
38:19
young people out. I'm going to give them context.
38:23
But I'm also going to help me be better at my craft and enjoy
38:27
what I do. And I'm going to learn a little
38:29
bit about these people. And and it makes the whole thing
38:33
so much more fulfilling, I would imagine, from being a successful
38:37
teacher. And then it also gives again the
38:42
IT gives the students, the young people, regardless if it's an
38:47
English class, A history class, A music class or theater class,
38:50
it gives the young, the students permission to believe that they
38:56
can tell their stories too. So if Sojourner, even though she
39:00
was illiterate, if she can still get up there and tell her story,
39:04
why can't I? And I have the gift of reading
39:07
and writing. I have that.
39:09
Absolutely, it's like that shared bravery and inspiration
39:13
to see to see something like that.
39:14
But you know, you said to about the educator getting something
39:19
out of it also. And let me ask you.
39:21
So you're giving a lot, right? You're you're, you're giving a
39:27
lot to the kids. You're giving a lot of thought.
39:28
Like you said, you're keeping the time.
39:30
You're not rushing these kids. So that's a lot on you as the
39:33
person leading the classroom. What boundaries have you had to
39:36
learn as a woman, as a teacher, between serving others and
39:41
disappearing yourself? Oh no, I don't disappear.
39:49
No, I learned a long time ago about that.
39:51
I think that's one of the things my military background kind of
39:53
gave me before I came to the classroom is that I, I had seen
39:56
so much in the service that I had made the decision as a young
39:59
woman. I mean, I joined at 20 and got
40:01
out at 2627. That I was not gonna let anybody
40:07
make me hide, but that I also had to learn how to pull back
40:11
when it was becoming too overwhelming for me.
40:14
So I've learned how to how to do a search inside of me and say
40:19
OK, where am I at in this process?
40:21
Number one, and again, this is not for everybody, but the first
40:24
thing I do before I ever enter my classroom is I have a prayer
40:28
and it's always Lord, whatever it is you need me to give these
40:30
young people today, use me to do that.
40:33
But I, you know, whatever is for me, let it be.
40:36
Let me see it. Let it be for me too.
40:38
So it is always my, my thing that I pray and then I do my
40:42
breath before I walk into the classroom because I know it's
40:45
heavy what I'm bringing. And then how do I support these
40:50
young people through this entire 15 week, you know, 15 and 10 or
40:55
15 week process. And so sometimes I have learned
40:59
to be very aware, hyper, not even hyper vigilant, but
41:03
vigilant about if this is going, if this is pulling too much on
41:07
my students. OK, so I will, I will take a
41:11
look around and if I see that it's too it's that my students
41:14
are, then I'll say, OK, let's take a breath and I'll go back
41:19
and I'll look at my syllabus and I'll be like, you know what?
41:21
I'm moving this, I'm moving it. I'm either moving it or I'm
41:25
deleting it or I'm extending it. And sometimes I'll even say, you
41:29
know what? Today's just the day to have
41:31
fun. We're just gonna have some fun.
41:34
Yeah. We're not going to do this
41:35
today. Or I'm going to figure out a way
41:36
to make it fun. I'm going to find a creative
41:38
writing opportunity for it because I also do a lot of
41:40
creative writing in the class. I have them do activities called
41:42
opening lines. And I put that in the book, an
41:44
opening line, a closing line to really get them into the to the
41:47
head of a writer. Like, here's the opening line,
41:49
now you've got to finish the rest of the story.
41:51
But they do it as groups. They rarely do it alone.
41:54
So I try to make that fun. And then I've learned to let go
41:57
of necessarily, you know, let go of hard deadlines.
42:00
You know, the only hard deadline is when they gotta take a final
42:03
exam. I'm not doing all that.
42:04
So I'll be like, you know, we're gonna spend 40 minutes.
42:07
We just may have fun with this. Because they need to see inflex
42:11
flexibility. They need to see that everything
42:13
is rigid, that life is also about having fun.
42:16
Life is about also paying attention to you and what's
42:19
going on with you, how you're feeling, and then also paying
42:22
attention to others. Looking at the room.
42:24
Well, these young people are overwhelmed.
42:25
Well, we pull them back today. Today's just going to be a
42:27
riding day. Today's going to be riding.
42:28
Lamp, it's interesting because you actually have, you know, the
42:34
being having come from a military background which is so
42:38
regimented and strict. To have that flexibility is
42:42
pretty unique that you've managed to kind of take the best
42:45
of all of these worlds to create this classroom where your
42:49
students have the structure and they have like the safety of
42:54
that structure, but they also have that flexibility.
42:58
Yes, that just shows that you're human.
43:00
It's important. It's important to do that and
43:03
everything education. Well, I do tell my students this
43:05
education should be uncomfortable because it needs
43:08
to stretch you. It needs to help you expand.
43:11
So if you walk into a classroom and you are too comfortable,
43:14
you're not learning. And what I mean by that is the,
43:18
the assignments, the activities, they should grow you and but,
43:23
and so who's to say that creative writing, that fun
43:25
writing can't do that like writing always have to be so
43:29
rigid. So what we're gonna do ABC
43:31
today? And then I said what that now?
43:34
No, there's also lessons in creative writing and fun writing
43:38
and group activities. There's fun in that.
43:41
And that's another way to learn. So I, I just, I try to be open.
43:46
Whatever spirit needs me to do in this classroom today, I'm
43:49
open to that. I know there are things that I
43:52
have to get done, like, you know, the school has
43:54
requirements for, you know, certain things that have to be
43:56
done at certain points. But why can't I have fun doing
43:59
that as well? Why can't that?
44:02
Why can't my classroom be the space where students know
44:07
they're not only going to come to be challenged intellectually
44:11
and in skill, but also will be, it's a space where they can find
44:15
themselves, where they can begin to craft voice.
44:18
They can understand the power of storytelling and where they can
44:22
have fun, where they can laugh. Teachers tough, but she's fair.
44:26
She's honest. And I'm not a huggy type person,
44:30
but there have been moments when I've seen that students need a
44:32
need a hug. And I will, I will stop the
44:35
whole class and say, oh, you know what, if you need a hug,
44:38
let's let's do it. I'm here because that's
44:41
important to be seen. That is the thing.
44:45
And I and that's what my students have.
44:47
And you go back 20 years, they've all said that to be seen
44:51
as everything and not seen in a way that is, that is false.
44:58
You know, this false imagery, this false sense of self, you
45:02
know, like being an influencer, for example, not that, but to be
45:07
seen, someone sees me, I exist. And so to offer that students,
45:16
especially our immigrant students, they need that.
45:20
They absolutely need that. And I'm here to offer that
45:24
because I know what it's like to sit behind the desk and have a
45:26
teacher who's been teaching for 40 years and they whip out the
45:28
same lecture notes that are now yellowed and frayed from 40
45:32
years ago. Oh, yes, I do.
45:34
Right. I remember them days.
45:36
I said I never want to be that teacher and everyone no.
45:40
And but you know, you, you're, you're, it's interesting too,
45:43
because you clearly care so much about your students.
45:46
And then you're funny because you're like, I'm not a hugger.
45:48
I'm not but. But it's, but you've got so much
45:52
care in you and, and it's, it seems like there's like a lot of
45:56
spirituality to that. And you've mentioned praying
46:00
before you go into the classroom.
46:01
How, for you, has faith shaped your understanding of womanhood,
46:05
leadership, and care? It has, it hasn't the grounding,
46:09
the grounding, the foundation for who I am and what I do now,
46:12
I don't go in the classroom and tell students and pray that's a
46:14
no, no, we don't do that. And I always tell them, hey,
46:16
what I'm here for. No, no, that may be who I am,
46:20
but that's not what I'm here for.
46:23
I'm offering you the opportunity to connect to you and these
46:28
three practices allow me to do that.
46:32
And you can take these things with you wherever you go.
46:35
Their final exam question is, what are three things you've
46:38
learned about yourself this semester that you will take with
46:40
you into both your part, your professional world and your
46:43
personal. And that is important for them
46:46
to be able to see themselves in the, in the learning process,
46:49
how far they've come. For me, faith has always been
46:54
and will always be the Center for who I am.
46:57
Because what it allows me to do is to see my student, to look at
47:02
the syllabus and say, OK, this isn't going to work today or to
47:06
bring in others into the classroom because they need to
47:09
hear more than just my voice. To find another way to teach
47:13
these very different learners, to make this personal, to tell
47:19
the story. It allows me to do that.
47:22
Faith allows you to see others, to see yourself in others.
47:26
And so yes, I, my prayer is that before I walk into the
47:29
classroom, it will always be that.
47:32
Do the students know? No, they don't have to know.
47:35
All they know is that this class, this space, this is where
47:40
I'm growing. This teacher is firm, but she's
47:44
fair. She's tough, but she's fun.
47:48
And so do they. They, they need to see that.
47:51
I think part of what's missing, again, as I said earlier in our
47:54
conversation, was that young teachers are not taught that.
47:57
We're not teaching young teachers how to bring a whole
48:03
authentic self into the curriculum, the syllabus, and
48:07
thus into the classroom. OK, real quick, if you're
48:10
listening and thinking more women should be hearing
48:13
conversations like this, the best way to support the show is
48:16
just to follow or subscribe wherever you are.
48:19
It really does help it reach more people.
48:20
Thanks so much. OK, back to the show, when you
48:24
were starting out teacher versus where you are now, was it, you
48:29
know, it was different, I'm sure in your classroom you didn't
48:31
have the self assuredness, you didn't have all the stuff as a
48:34
teacher. That experience that you had, is
48:36
it was it very different than how you teach now?
48:40
Actually, no, that's awesome. No.
48:44
Well, the only thing is that with public school, I knew in
48:47
teaching public school, I was not going to be able to go
48:50
further with certain things like faith.
48:55
And like faith, I knew I had it for me before I came to the
48:59
classroom. But I knew that I couldn't
49:01
really get down into who you are as an individual in the high
49:05
school, in the in the secondary level because of all the
49:07
constrictions around secondary education.
49:11
But how, what kind of secondary teacher I was, was it almost
49:14
exactly is who I still am. I was very aware of my students,
49:18
where they were at, where we needed to be, but I was also
49:22
aware of the rules and so, but I, I rules are meant to be
49:27
broken. So for.
49:29
Example. So for example, I remember I had
49:32
a 10th grade class and we were in the textbook was a short
49:38
story about Malcolm X. And I was like, Oh my God, yeah,
49:41
I'm going to, you know, I'm going to read this piece.
49:43
And I had already, you know, talked about who Malcolm X was
49:46
and just the, the, the now who he was as a, as an antagonist,
49:51
but who he was as an individual. Sorry, growing up without a
49:54
father who this person is. And I was like, we're gonna read
49:57
this short story. Well, one student, I guess the
49:59
parent asked what were they reading?
50:02
And the student told the parent. And then the parent called up to
50:04
the school and was vehement that they didn't want their child to
50:08
learn anything about that white man hating Malcolm X.
50:13
And I said, well, clearly their education didn't go no further
50:17
than 1963 because the Malcolm X that left this earth was not off
50:22
a white man hating Malcolm X. And that just really shows you
50:25
about how certain characters are taught in class.
50:29
And so my my direct supervisor, she was like, well, you know,
50:35
Miss Pierce, you can't teach that short story.
50:37
I said, OK, that's fine, I'll go another way.
50:42
I'll teach Marcus Garvey. And I told Marcus Garvey because
50:47
nobody know who Marcus Garvey is.
50:51
They don't know that you wouldn't have a Malcolm X if
50:53
there hadn't been a Marcus Garvey.
50:56
And so, and I know you're listening to who's Marcus
50:58
Garvey. Well, I'm not going to go in
50:59
today. Y'all have to go find out who
51:00
Marcus Garvey is. But know that he, you know, was
51:03
a Jamaican born public speaker who came to America because he,
51:09
you know, wanted to end colorism.
51:11
He wanted black people of all colors to use to feel a sense of
51:15
pride in who they were. And he was just basically
51:18
continuing the conversation about if America continues to
51:22
treat black people in this particular way, should we leave?
51:25
Right. But more than anything, he he
51:28
gave to black America this sense of pride in being I'm black and
51:34
I'm proud. So he precedes Malcolm X, he
51:38
precedes the Nation of Islam, he precedes James Brown.
51:41
I'm black and I'm proud. He precedes the Black Arts
51:44
movement in this country. But ain't nobody teaching him
51:49
because OK, well, I won't get in there because publicly.
51:54
School gotcha. My specialty is African American
51:56
literature. You don't want me.
51:57
We won't do that. But just know that that was my
52:00
way around that because I'm like, you can't, you can't
52:04
disregard such a pivotal moment in American history and in
52:07
American literature. You know, Alex Haley wrote
52:10
Malcolm X's autobiography. You, you can't dismiss that
52:14
because you only got 1/2 of the story.
52:16
And that's my whole goal when I go into the classroom.
52:19
We will not do half of the story.
52:22
This is why context is so important.
52:26
Those people didn't want Harry, excuse me, Sojin, or to speak,
52:29
not only because they didn't see her as a woman, but because the
52:33
woman is the suffragist did not want to confuse women's rights
52:37
with slavery, right, with the ending of slavery.
52:42
And so a lot of young people don't know that because that's
52:45
not taught. These contexts are not taught.
52:49
So I have always been that kind of teacher that's going to find
52:53
another way to teach this in a way that helps these young
52:56
people find their way and see their voice and see that who
53:00
they are, who they come from is just as beautiful as anybody
53:02
else. Well, and I think that the fact
53:05
that you have so much context around your own life too.
53:08
There's so much and I wanted to ask you about that too.
53:10
I know we don't have all day, but I, I'm going to keep you as
53:13
long as I have. But you create work across many
53:16
spaces. So in addition to your expertise
53:19
as a, as a teacher, you, you've written an affirmations journal.
53:23
Repeat after me, Sis, you're writing and teaching, obviously
53:26
your bakery. You host the podcast Beyond the
53:28
Plate RV and you've talked about bringing all of that under what
53:32
you call the Nourishment Collective.
53:34
Yes. Could you tell me a little bit
53:36
about that? Well, for a long time I did.
53:38
I struggled with these. What a lot of young people
53:42
struggle with and and you know, need help on finding their way
53:46
through is what happens when you have multiple pieces of you that
53:49
likes to do different things. The world, this world is so
53:53
pressed to make a person one thing, and I just refuse.
53:58
And so I I just. Love you, I love you you're
54:01
like, I just won't do it I. Won't do it because we come here
54:04
with so many wonderful gifts. It's just that one gift is the
54:08
umbrella for them all. And it's the trick is
54:10
recognizing what that one umbrella is.
54:13
And for me, and I've, I've said this for years, the umbrella is
54:16
education. And underneath that umbrella is
54:19
teaching, writing and speaking. And so when I started looking
54:23
at, well, who am I as a Baker? Well, baking, I opened up the
54:27
bakery because I was leaving teaching, because I was burnt
54:30
out. I was tired.
54:31
And I knew that baking made me feel good.
54:33
It calmed me down. It was another way for me to
54:36
express my love and sincerity for being here for families, for
54:40
people, for my own story, my family's food story.
54:43
And it's just an extension, a further extension of me.
54:47
I'm a foodie person. I, of course, I love food, but I
54:50
love the story of, of food and particularly soul food and just
54:57
how our, how our palates are often shaped by our culture, our
55:00
cultural experiences with food and how that also shapes our
55:03
mindset about food. And so I'm a writer, that's what
55:08
I do. And I just feel like writers
55:10
should should try different genres.
55:13
And so being a playwright is first and foremost who I am.
55:17
I love theater and and theater has informed my ability to tell
55:22
stories in fiction and in nonfiction.
55:25
I just feel like writers should try those different modes or
55:29
mediums to figure out where they can grow the most, but also to
55:34
challenge them, right. So the nourishment collective I
55:38
came down to, what spirit gave me was that do not be ashamed of
55:42
these different pieces of you because no matter where someone
55:45
finds you, Rebecca, they find you.
55:49
And it is that wherever that is, that is what that person needed
55:53
at the moment. So if they find me on my foodie
55:56
podcast, Beyond the Plate RBA, this is where they find me.
56:00
And then that will might bring them to Rebecca, the nonfiction
56:03
writer with the lemonade mindset over on Sub Stack, or they might
56:07
find my bakery. But wherever they find me, they
56:10
have found me. And so I nourish in all of those
56:15
platforms. I'm nourishing you in the
56:16
bakery, I'm nourishing you on the foodie podcast.
56:18
I'm nourishing you in our online bookstore in my written text.
56:23
That's who I, who I am. I'm a nourish, A nourisher.
56:26
I'm, I think I described myself at the end of last semester as I
56:30
am a gardener. I plant seeds.
56:33
And so wherever you go, you'll find my seed.
56:36
That's where I'm at. And so that's kind of how I came
56:38
up with the nourishment and kind of wrapping all these different
56:41
pieces of me because I all of it is storytelling.
56:46
All of it is storytelling. We tell our story through what
56:49
we put on our plate. We tell our story through what
56:52
we listen to and what we read. We tell our story and how we
56:56
position words on the page. We tell our story and how we
57:00
show up. And that's, that's my, you know,
57:03
my whole framing for the nourishment collective.
57:06
Wherever you find me, you have found me.
57:08
You have found nourishment. I love this and I love that
57:11
there are so many ways to find you in so many different ways
57:13
that you do nourish. And and that leads me to my last
57:16
question for you, which is there are women listening who are
57:20
exhausted from holding everyone else together and they and
57:25
nourishing others. What do you want them to hear
57:28
today? Yeah.
57:30
No, you come first again. I don't.
57:33
I don't step into the. I have to.
57:36
I'm really serious about this and I've been writing about this
57:38
for a long time. This is why I started the
57:40
Lemonade mindset and why I started affirmations for myself.
57:44
I can't care for others if I don't care for the greatest love
57:48
of my life 1st and that is me. And so if it's going to empty my
57:54
well, then I can't do it. If if someone says they love you
57:59
but they keep doing the thing that hurts you and you and you
58:02
keep telling them to stop, they keep doing it.
58:04
That's not love. And so you have to learn how to
58:06
let them go. So my memoir that I wrote called
58:09
I love me more. That was my after leaving my,
58:11
you know, my tumultuous, violent marriage, I learned from that
58:15
experience that I can't give my light to other people.
58:20
That light belongs to me. And it's my job to make sure
58:23
that it continues to shine. And so if it's going to rob me
58:27
of my health, which I have learned the hard way about being
58:31
robbed of my health because I gave too much to every to
58:33
everything, if it's going to rob me of my house, if it's going to
58:36
rob me of my voice, if it's going to try to steal my joy,
58:40
then I don't want it. So I work on me before I can
58:46
give anything to anyone else. And that that is so important.
58:50
I know the word no, it's a sentence and I don't have to
58:55
explain it. And sometimes, you know, but
58:57
sometimes even I struggle with explaining because people be
58:59
like, why? And I just learned how to tell
59:01
people because I said no. Yes, it is.
59:05
Yes. Right.
59:07
So, but I've had to learn also to not be like, Oh my God,
59:09
they're gonna hate me. I don't care.
59:12
And and it's, it's almost the same.
59:14
And I don't wanna say I don't care because even caring is an
59:16
emotion. But what I say is this, you
59:18
know, particularly for my students, I'm not here to be
59:21
your friend. I have a job to do and I'm going
59:25
to do my job. But if by the end of this we
59:28
become friends and this is the best thing ever, but I am not
59:32
your friend at this moment. So you will call me Professor
59:35
Pierce or you will call me Doctor Pierce, or you will call
59:38
me Miss Rebecca or you will call me Miss Pierce.
59:40
But what you will not do is call me by my first name because we
59:42
are not on the same level. And that's not to be
59:45
disrespectful, but that's to teach you to understand the
59:47
journey that I have been to been through to find me.
59:51
And you have to respect that journey.
59:52
You ain't got to like it, but you got to respect it.
59:55
And so at some point, unless you want to be put in the ground at
1:00:00
a young age. Whether it's your children, your
1:00:03
mate, or your your coworkers, you're going to have to learn
1:00:08
how to put you first. If it does not feed your soul,
1:00:12
if it does not grow you and expand you, if it does not align
1:00:16
with who you know yourself to be or who you want to be, then the
1:00:19
answer is no. Stop trying to be seen in the
1:00:23
negative way. Oh my gosh, she does everything.
1:00:25
Look at her. Because baby, when you die,
1:00:27
what's going to go on your tombstone the day you were born
1:00:31
and the day you died? Not she made the best cookies on
1:00:34
the planet. That ain't going like your king
1:00:36
stuff. This this, by the way, is
1:00:40
totally reminding me of when we first hopped on the phone.
1:00:42
I'm like, I just cut my son a bagel.
1:00:44
Yes, that's going to go in between.
1:00:46
She cut the best bagels. She.
1:00:47
Cut the best bagels. Yeah, no, I'm not doing that.
1:00:50
And, and it's just really getting to that moment when you,
1:00:53
when you realize, you know, you have a choice and how you want
1:00:58
to live your life, gratitude or grievance.
1:01:03
How are you stepping into the classroom?
1:01:04
Because I had a lot of teachers emailing me about, Oh my God, I
1:01:06
hate going, I'm dragging going back to work and like, why?
1:01:09
That's the mindset. That's all you.
1:01:12
That is all you. You could change that instantly.
1:01:15
It doesn't matter what them children are doing.
1:01:16
When you walk to that classroom, that's your classroom.
1:01:20
The attitude you carry into that classroom dictates how that
1:01:23
classroom is going to go. So if you are learning how to
1:01:26
quiet yourself, heal yourself, begin that healing process,
1:01:32
figure out what works for you, what's growing you, what's
1:01:35
stifling you, what's hindering you.
1:01:37
Then you will look at not returning to to the classroom as
1:01:40
Ugg, but as we, but returning to the classroom as this is my
1:01:46
space, this is me. This is where I shine, this is
1:01:51
where I grow and I have an opportunity to give that to
1:01:54
someone else. Don't let them people upset you,
1:01:57
Rock You. Oh, no, ma'am, because at the
1:02:00
end of the day, once again, the birth date and the date date you
1:02:04
died. No, ma'am.
1:02:05
No, I don't play that. Not no more, no.
1:02:08
Rebecca, you are awesome. I am so grateful that you were
1:02:11
here. I feel like there's so many
1:02:12
takeaways and I love by the way, I keep talking and not letting
1:02:17
you go, but how you say gratitude versus grievance
1:02:19
because so many people are like gratitude, gratitude, gratitude.
1:02:22
And I've actually like said before in a gratitude class once
1:02:25
I was like, I feel like, I'm so doing this like without
1:02:29
thinking, it's not feeling like deep gratitude.
1:02:32
I keep writing my coffee like, but when you look at it versus
1:02:38
gratitude versus grievance, it's the whole, my, it's your whole
1:02:43
shift. It's how you're it's you can see
1:02:46
what you don't want. Exactly.
1:02:48
And again, it's just again, as I, as I press into my students,
1:02:54
as soon as those eyes open, you've got to start training
1:02:58
your brain to go immediately to gratitude.
1:03:01
Thank you. And and if you believe in God or
1:03:04
not, whether it's thank you, God or just thank you.
1:03:07
Because the truth of the matter is you really had no say as to
1:03:11
whether or not your heart wanted to keep beating or if your lungs
1:03:17
wanted to keep processing air. You have no control over that.
1:03:21
Your body works autonomously, right?
1:03:24
Involuntarily mean you don't get to control that.
1:03:26
The only thing you can control is how you think as soon as your
1:03:29
eyes open. Oh, that's so good.
1:03:32
Thank you so much. You are awesome.
1:03:34
Thank you so much for being here today.
1:03:37
I can't thank you enough. And I'm going to have all the
1:03:39
information you we talked about, including a link to Marcus
1:03:42
Garvey in the show notes. Please do that.
1:03:45
I will absolutely do that. Absolutely.
1:03:47
Thank you so much you're. Welcome.
1:03:49
Thank you so much for having me and have a great day.
1:03:51
You too. I really appreciated this
1:03:54
conversation with Rebecca, especially the way she
1:03:57
challenged some of the assumptions we make so quickly
1:03:59
about kids and behavior, and how those assumptions often say more
1:04:03
about what we've been taught to expect than what's actually
1:04:06
going on. That shift alone can change
1:04:08
everything, and next week we're taking that idea of rethinking
1:04:11
what's not working and turning it into something else entirely
1:04:15
new. We're talking about what happens
1:04:17
when frustration isn't something to push through, but something
1:04:20
to pay attention to with the one and only Jess Eckstrom.
1:04:23
In the meantime, if this episode opened your eyes like it opened
1:04:26
mine, send it to a friend. That's how these conversations
1:04:29
keep going. Thanks for joining us.
1:04:31
See you next time on ROAR.