Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / What I've Learnt - Summer Series Gems (March) (2022)

Transcript

What I've Learnt - Summer Series Gems (March) (2022) · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, welcome to the Weatherflight Podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Luke, one of the producers of the show.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: As a producer, I love my work and helping Deborah and our team share so many wonderful stories.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: From food to fashion and art to music, we've got you covered.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, we will be highlighting some of the best moments from this past March.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: So sit back and enjoy it.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: And as individuals too, I think, you know, the the the crazier the world becomes, the more important our sort of individual focused uh liberal democracy becomes.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: And uh if if you if you express your individuality uh or if you want to find fashion to express your individuality, you have to find people who are actually like-minded.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: So this idea of people collaborating with their tribe and then sort of pulling you in as a consumer for their tribe and their collections, that is going to be the way fashion evolves.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, obviously at the other end to the fast fashion mega brands kind of um, you know, various waves of norm core that happens at the other end of fashion.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: But the future of fashion, the the most, the the end of fashion that's that's swelling are these uh sort of um very collaborative, very political, very um expressive uh notions of individuality by individual designers who are collaborating and then their tribes of consumers.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: So little tribe, little brands, little tribes.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's really, it really is quite innovative, and I can see it happening everywhere, actually.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_05: Just on another note, um, Country Road and others are embracing the new circular economy.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_05: You and I touched on that last time, recycling and ethically producing garments.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's transformational for the industry, as as you know, um, Thread Together, which is my sister's um and brother-in-law's uh brand, they do a lot of this.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_05: There's a lot of people involved, you know, it is definitely it's the future.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_05: So really, it's almost like most brands have to have some sort of circular approach.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_05: What's your perspective on that and what have you observed?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's a done deal.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're going into if you're introducing a new brand, uh it's it's understood that you will be right across uh all the ideas of ethical production, transparent supply chains, sustainability, all those conversations that are happening across fashion now, you've got to be across them if you're introducing any kind of new brand.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, and there's there's so many resources now to enable you to do that.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: There's there's workshops, there are uh doctorate studies, there are uh websites, there's so much that you can access.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: So there's really no excuse.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that if you don't, if you weren't across that, even as a small brand, as a big brand, as if you're not across that, then you get called out.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: Social media is just vicious.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, people people who are watching you on social media, they will be absolutely vicious.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: And uh they will call you out, they will call make you uh accountable account, account accountable.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and there are these, you know, these wonderful social media projects like Diet Pratha that make a you know that they make a mission out of out of calling out um bad practices in fashion.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: So you you're gonna get caught.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: So everybody nobody wants to, so everybody seems to be doing the right thing and they're doing the right thing as much as they can, but I still, you know, I I bang on about this.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think the future of fashion is a short, manageable, transparent supply chain, which means that you have to limit the scale of your business.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's just one of those things.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: You cannot manage uh, you know, one of these incredibly long supply chains like perhaps uh you know, HM or I know that they try very hard.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, I'm not, I shouldn't call that in names, but very long supply chains where along that supply chain you could end up with uh you know slave labor or uh an Urga Urga Muslim, you know, working for two cents an hour, that kind of thing.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want that to happen because it gets out of your control the bigger you get.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's inevitable.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_05: That's a good point.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_05: The the further you are from your source of production, yeah.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_05: And and I think the other thing, I mean, not to mention there's also the longer your supply chain, you've got issues with delivery, particularly at the moment, there's still docs, and uh that's a separate issue, but it's sort of related to you're talking about streamline, streamline the process, keep it simple and keep it accountable.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Checking transparent, or we're always checking.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they're legislate across the world now in most countries that actually produce fashion, they're uh they've either legislated already or they're planning legislation for people to keep a constant check and keep their supply chains pure.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but it is a mammoth, mammoth task when if you're producing you know a million units a day, um, you imagine how many, how many outsourcing, outsources, outsources, outsources, how many times uh that the you know those those production elements have been handed down the supply supply chain, they're just out of totally out of your control eventually.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_05: That's a very that's a very good point.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_05: What about the interesting notion of um some of these extraordinary innovations where they're making clothes from plastic and or you know, from recyclable beads and you know, that is a really interesting innovation as well.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_05: Do you know much about that?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_05: And are you interested in that?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_05: And do you think it's going to take off?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, obviously, we've had the bamboo and we've had all these different products being made from different fabrics, but it it goes to that notion of trying to use waste to make clothing.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: Look, I I think you've been the guru on this in this on this subject is is someone like Claire Press, who is uh a marvelous advocate for sustainability and and circular circular fashion economies and you know a kinder, fairer, nicer future for fashion.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: She's wonderful.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I I the technologies are in the technologies are still being developed at the moment.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Technology is going to be uh an incredibly integral part of fashion's future because to to actually use recycled plastic, how do how do you, you know, the technology has to be known to create malleable fibres and that sort of thing, but also to use waste is the separation of different elements, differ different chemical elements to then sort of siphon off into some sort of fashion use, that sort of thing.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's easier and more accessible that idea for fashion companies or fashion producers to actually go to the dead stock market where you've got we have warehouses, massive hanger aircraft, hanger-sized warehouses of dead stock all over the world.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: And we have unused clothing, millions of kilograms of unused clothing going into landfill or going to um terrible situations in developing countries where they're you know they're picking out what they can sell, but then they're they're discarding the rest, and it's creating an environmental hazard, and it's a terrible, terrible, terrible waste.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: But so um I know of brands in Melbourne particularly, which are the smaller experimental brands that are using dead stock um fabrics from all over the world.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's not you you don't just go into a dusty warehouse and pull out a bulge of stuff that you know was was circa 1949 and let's use that.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they'll actually search the world, you know, dead stock uh from you know Italian bills and and that sort of thing uh to create incredible collections, beautiful, unique collections that are obviously limited, and uh and they will they'll label each piece as it's usually made to order or made in small runs, they'll label each piece as as um this is this is a limited edition because once this fabric is gone, it's gone.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's gone.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, there's a lot of that.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_05: It's very clever.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, and there's this wonderful brand.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just I'm trying to remember her name, but actually I was really impressed.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_05: Have you seen the brand that gets old towels from the 70s and creates these amazing hats out of old old beach towels, but they're selling out all the time.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_05: Unfortunately, I just can't remember her name.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_05: But I was so impressed.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_05: I thought that is, I mean, that's a very small example, but no, but that's a great example.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_05: She's doing really well, and and it will come to me and I'll put her up on my um when I put the pot up.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_05: It might be.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_05: I just want to be sure that I've got the right one.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_05: But but I know that they're selling out.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but they're selling out because it's such a wonderful, so there's nostalgia, there's retro, there's bespoke, there's all of those elements that you referred to.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: And repurposing uh uh repurposing old clothing.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there is there is actually uh a lot of brands that will will actually take secondhand clothing and work out ways to use them.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Now it might be um a little bit more specialized than you being able to use a whole bolt of fat, you know, uniform fabric.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: But repurposing clothing, I think that's going to be incredibly important too.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_05: Very, very interesting times.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, obviously, as we touched on briefly, many brands have fallen by the wayside after a COVID-driven, driven demolition.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but you know, we're seeing signs of it really has been like a sort of Armageddon of sorts with certain brands.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_05: You just go, what?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_05: Another one.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_05: It's really quite hard for a lot of people.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_05: But I'm, I mean, yes, you and I have touched on there is regrowth, there is recalibration, there is a revival of sorts.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_05: But really, it's a matter of how do we nurture some of these people and make sure that they are also, whether they go back into business or whether they find new ways to be part of the industry, are we giving enough support to those businesses that through no fault of their own have been sort of the subject of a pretty tough time?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, shopping time.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think we're I think we're a minority if we're shopping local and buying local and seeking out these small brands, whether I see them on uh my social media feeds.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um Julia Brown, uh who is who started the Fashion Hub, is a really interesting one to keep in touch with.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: So uh follow the Fashion Hub on social media and she'll be able to do that.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: What is that?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's uh it's it's um she's nurturing 20 or so, I think it's about 20 or so new brands, emerging brands.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one area of this, and then there are the very small brands that didn't do particularly well during the pandemic, but I've spoken to a lot of them, and I would say common a lot among all of all of the very small brands is adaptability.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we use this word pivot so many times it became boring during the pandemic, but that's exactly what they did, and if it meant um going uh one uh if if they changed it to a side hustle and they paid their bills with something else.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Else, like whether it was working in a kitchen at a restaurant that was doing Uber meals, delivery, delivery meals, that was one.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, there are other ways, you know, people adapted by making masks, obviously, so many small brands and hats, and I know the uh the there were shawls and scarves, and you know, they would use off off cuts and things to just keep that, keep that going almost like their brand became a side hustle to their you know, the real business of paying bills and and that sort of thing.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that a lot of the small ones that I know have come through and they're okay.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: They're they're you know, they're renewed and and um you know, champing it the bit to get cracking again.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, and there are more emerges.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be coming a very crowded space, this small brands area, and and I don't think that's a bad thing.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds crowded markets, not a good market.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's a good market when it comes to fashion because whoever you are, if you really crave, you really want, you know, you have a particular kind of fashion taste, you can find it out there at the moment, moment.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: You can find, you know, if you're into glamour and very incredibly beautiful French couture finishes and you want something made to order, you can get that.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: If you're into a kooky club scene or festive, you know, you're you're dying to get out there to the festivals again, you can go and you know get the uh the pink faux fur top and the I love it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_05: You can get anything out there.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_05: Anything is out there, yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_05: It's almost like yeah, the high street, it's like the high street.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_05: I I do think what is wonderful about what you're saying too, though, which is really sort of nice, is that not only have we got a much better insight into how hard the industry people work and how layered it is and how complex it is, and how, you know, it's sort of in a way lifted the lid of a lot of that fashion mystery for people, if you're not in the fashion industry, you know, being much more, it's a little more personalized.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_05: And I think also the idea that in a way you've got it's back to the sort of that market, like you're like in a beautiful market with beautiful, crafted, bespoke high street, you know, back to that real London, you know, market vibe.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I think people are trying, I think people love that.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's taken it out of that realm of the big.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_05: I know there's still that there's you've got the big supersonic brands, but I think there are more people.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_05: We'll always have them.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and and look, thank God we do, because they're wonderful.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_05: But I do think it's opening the door a lot to some of the more bespoke as a result of this.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_05: One other thing on that note, um, I mentioned this to you briefly when we were chatting before.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um, obviously, the influx of gymware and certainly.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_05: Byron Bay bass soul singer Lisa Hunt has performed with Pavarotti, Andrea Puccelli, Ray Charles, Eric Clapton, James Brown, Joe Cocker, Miles Davis, Macy Gray, Tina Turner, and Brian May.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_05: And that's just a few of the incredible people that she spent her life performing with.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_05: And as we know, music is a universal healer and you've been singing for many years.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_05: Can you talk to me about where it all started?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: New York, where I was born.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So uh just music has been a part of my life from from the you know, as early as I can remember, through uh church.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: We sang in the gospel choir, sang in school choir, and sang in the community choir.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's just just the little singing that we sang out on the streets of uh Brooklyn, you know, just me and my friends, we'd be harmonizing on this on the steps in in uh during the day.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just I my my destiny was written.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_05: And and what a destiny it was.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, really, it's quite it's quite an incredible story, wasn't it?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_05: Because as I understand it, and you can tell the story that it that somebody approached you to come and sing in Italy, is that right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_05: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_05: Because that's life-changing for you.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, it was life-changing.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was at the time I was living in London, and um yeah, this Italian superstar kind of I was busking at um Coven Garden.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And as it as it stood, he missed his plane to go back to Italy and came there just to hang out for the day, and there was performing, and he says, I want you to come to Italy to sing my very good Italian accent there, Lisa.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm quite impressed.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really, and initially it was just gonna be three months, and then that turned into a 20-year relationship of touring and recording, and yeah, interrupted only by um a two-year stint with Jimmy Bonds, who also had I was doing uh a charity gig in Sydney, and because no one knew who I was at all, I was like on last.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So by the time I went on, it was late night, no one was left.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: But Jimmy had left his uh sunglasses in the dressing room and came back for him while I was singing.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I get uh this guy comes up and he's like, Jimmy Bond wants to sing with you.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: He jumps on stage and you know, I think we sang River Deep, you know.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, great song, and you'd be so good at that.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_05: I think I've heard you sing that actually.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_05: That's a great cool.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, what an incredible story.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_05: Came back for his sunglasses, and then he wants to sing with you.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_05: So you do River Deep.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_05: I bet there were plenty of people listening.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Probably about three weeks later, uh get a call from this lawyer guy and Tim with the Jimmy Barnes is looking for you.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that wonderful?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Jimmy for recording with him for two years.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, what an experience.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_05: And what did you learn from Jimmy?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: What did he teach you?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just um what I observed is he taught just how to every day is like the first time he's singing.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've never seen, even since then, I've never seen anyone that like enthusiastic about music.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like just breathing it, and you know, he's always happy to get to the to wherever he's performing and to, you know, get ready for the show.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And just like for me, it's like when I'm doing the show, that's when when all those all the joy comes.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you actually, for me, when I'm actually performing, he's like, oh, let me at it.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you can see even during COVID, every day there was they're doing a song online with the whole family.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Family, I love it.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there's another child each each day, each week, there's another child.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, there's another child on his lap, or you know.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of that kind of love of music is just um yeah, insane.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's a pretty cool, yeah, pretty cool grandfather.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I love the way all his kids sing.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: And you've obviously I I think you've done some, have you done some performing with Malia, his daughter uh Mahalia?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_05: And I mean, they obviously got such an incredible energy.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_05: So you love touring with him, and also he obviously gave you the platform to really reach other people that you might otherwise not have, yeah.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what once you're the thing about you know, if if you perform with Pavarotti, it means something to people.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you perform with Jimmy Barnes, if you sung with Midnight Oil, it means something to a lot of people, even though when as a performer, we say you're as big as your next geek.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's um but it but once you it's almost like when you read back on your own history and go, ah yeah, I did this, I did that, oh, that was great.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you have all those memories collectively, it turns into you know a pretty nice, pretty nice story.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very good one, it's a great one.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a nice way to look back and and remember what you've done.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I like doing that.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I have, you know, I think on my phone it's about 30,000 pictures.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, you've got some great history, and I I mean, even in my research, just looking at so much that you've done, but also what a great way to spend life traveling the world, playing music.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm not, I mean, I'm not glib in the sense that I know how hard what hard you work and how demanding it can be, and how you've got to, as you say, you've got to be the show must go on, and there's plenty of obstacles, but there's something incredibly cathartic about what you do, and you also heal others, and that's it's a very spiritual thing.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_05: It's that's amazing.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_05: You know, giving others your musical energy.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that a lot of people through COVID and through these crises find music extremely healing.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_05: And so from that perspective, I think you've given a lot to the community just in the way.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I know how many times you've performed at that Byron Bay Hotel, the Beach Hotel, and you know, you've got a very big following, people adore you.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_05: What's some of the highlights for you?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_05: You mentioned you you played with Midnight Oil, um Pavarotti, and I've got that, I've mentioned that in the intro.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_05: Tell me some of the highlights for you that you can recall.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_05: And some may not also be, they may be celebrity oriented, but there might be others that that resonate for you.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there's you know there's always your favourite places to play, like the Beach Hotel was just epic.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And for that to be my hometown was just yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: What more can you ask?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Every once a month you get that, you get that healing.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's great pubs.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I like playing, Kingscliffe Beach Hotel.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Carl Holly Bowie, you know, and and yeah, then there's that's that's consistent, those are constant things that that you know are gonna come up and they keep happening to you.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've done like things that people don't know, like amazing weddings, like beautiful weddings where you're not the performer, you're just part of this uh intimate thing, once-in-a-lifetime kind of situation.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then you have celebrity moments, you're doing some kind of you know, international fundraiser, and that's oh, that's it, oh, that's oh, oh my selfie, selfie, selfie.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it it's all just one big beautiful pie of music.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um I'm glad I knew from an early age what I wanted to do, because a lot of people don't know that.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: They just, you know, I I see people feel like, hmm, what am I gonna do with my life?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I had no choice what what I was gonna do with my life because that's how badly I wanted it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: So whether I was busking on a street or singing in the subway or singing with a hundred thousand people with midnight oil, or you know, or on on the stage in Italy with Pavarotti, it's all part of that living that dream.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so the dream is to to make music so you can have in that, and I'm still doing it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_05: And that's because you're so good.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_05: That's why you're doing it, because you are so good, and I I love your music.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: People who are not performing, so yeah, it it's it's a gift, but it's also you have to have the passion that you want to do it above everything else, and so you're willing to put in the phone calls, yeah, just everything involved, you know, booking flights and planes.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not like a celebrity where you know I have a secretary and a travel agent and a manager and all that, so pretty much do it all myself.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_05: Which is interesting because you do a lot of it, so it must be pretty busy.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_05: But actually, recently with it being hit by the arts being hit so hard, um, did you find that you adapted okay or did you because obviously so many things were closed?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_05: Family is very important to me.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_05: So I want to do my best to help you succeed in your dream of becoming a parent.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_05: I have 20 years' experience in helping people achieve pregnancy.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_05: I specialise in all aspects of female and male fertility, and that is Dr.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_05: Lynn Burmeister.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_05: She's the owner and medical director at Number One Fertility.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_05: Dr.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_05: Lynn Burmeister says her goal is to provide the best patient care and fertility treatment at an affordable cost.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_05: Exclusively scientific process, but actually, it's also about uh making sure that that person is ready.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_05: And I suppose that goes to the question of criteria and making sure that somebody is ready for the journey, as we discussed.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_05: But also, I like the idea that you talk about trying to get them pregnant naturally if you can, and if that, you know, that is not so.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_05: A lot of people I would think they'd go, Oh, well, I'm going here because I'm going to be using IVF.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_05: But really, what you're saying is there are ways to maybe help them before they get to that step, and you're prepared to do that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_05: So you really are open to all forms of trying to help them get pregnant.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: So not all the patients that I see will do IVF.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly, you know, we have to look at their age because age is the biggest factor for infertility.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: So once we're once we're around 35, our quality of our eggs um does decline and more dramatically after 37.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then by the time you're 40, the chance that you're going to conceive naturally, regardless of all the holistic things that I can do for you, um, the chance that you're going to conceive naturally is only about 4% per month.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_05: So it's so low, isn't it?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's so low.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: And um, that message is not really out there, and it needs to be because sometimes I'll see the ladies and they've been trying for all the couples, they've been trying for a whole year and they're now closer to 41.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And they had no idea.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: And when I said, Well, your chance naturally is 4%.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: So patients usually in their 40s need to get a moving straight to IVF to help them because of that low chance of getting pregnant.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: So between 35 and 40, that's when we need to hurry things up a bit.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe, you know, you might try a few months naturally with things like tuber washouts and a bit of ovulation therapy.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: But if it's not working, then those patients will be hurried on to IVF.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, the ones under 35 with good egg banks and things like that and good sperm counts.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: We can try other things.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: There is this, I call it the magic oil, and it's um got the poppy seed and iodine in it.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: And we flush that through the fallopian tubes, we can increase their pregnancy from you know, virtually zero because they've been trying for a whole year to 43% in the seed.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: Are you serious?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: That's excuse.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that is incredible.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so it's so natural.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so what the poppy seed does, it's anti-uh-inflammatory.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it calms down any inflate inflammation they may have in their pelvis.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the iodine component is an antiseptic.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: So if they've got some little bugs in their tubes or something, that just washes out and cleans out the bugs.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so we know from studies that if you have your tubes flush, so you've spent a whole year not getting pregnant, the sperm's normal, you're ovulating.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: You go and do one of these tube flushes, and you can do it in an ultrasound department and ask for the, it's called lipodeil.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: I just tell the patients it's magic oil because they can't say the name lipodeil, and ask for the magic oil, um, 43% will be pregnant in four to six months.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's pretty amazing.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of the younger patients want to start with that option.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then after the four to six months, if they're not pregnant, then we move on to the IVF option.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: So IVF is not always the first choice.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that is so important to highlight.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_05: Also, you've probably seen a lot of changes in the time since you've been doing this.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, first of all, you've got women, I suppose, in the workforce wanting to keep working and and then to address this later than they used to.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_05: Is that I'm assuming that's correct based on what I've read.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_05: But so that obviously is a factor.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_05: The stresses of the way that we live, all of those aspects.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_05: Have you seen that change over time?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_05: Do you think that those factors are impacting why fertility has become a much maybe it always has been an issue, but it seems to be a bigger issue.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_05: Or is it just that we're talking about it?
• 31:47
  unknown: You know?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the average age of having a baby now in Australia for first baby is um 31.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so when we think about what happens to our eggs in our 30s, they do decline in quality.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so you you may be able to have your first baby at 31, okay, but then by the time you're coming to your second baby, you're going to be closer to 35.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that your eggs do take a big dive in their quality at that time.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I see a lot of secondary infertility as well, and that's mainly because of egg quality, nothing but that.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just because people are just delaying that first baby until they are 31 or so, and then when they go to get have the second baby, they struggle.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: But there are a lot of women out there that are now egg freezing.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we've seen like a, you know, 150% increase, especially during COVID, of women coming in and egg freezing.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: So the numbers are just like going up, up, up every week.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just seeing more and more egg freezing.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's women usually between 30 and 35 taking control of their fertility.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's usually done because they haven't met anyone and they want to meet somebody, but they haven't met anyone suitable to partner with, and they're taking control and they're coming in and freezing their eggs, um, which is I find that fascinating.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's great.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is fascinating.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_05: Do you think that so is that something that you encourage and is it something that they're talking about much more?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_05: Do you think that that women are a lot more informed about fertility and the issues?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're getting there, but I think it could be better because I still have women in their late 30s asking me, why isn't IVF working?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I've got some other immune problem and I'm rejecting the embryo.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, mostly it's not an immune problem.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: Mostly it's because the eggs aren't good at 38, 39, and that's why the IVF may not be working.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's not an immune problem.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: So some of the patients go off searching for an immune problem, that might be their answer, but it's not the answer usually.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: The answer is the quality of your eggs, sperm, and embryo.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's great that we're seeing women, you know, in their late 20s and 30s coming in now, taking control and freezing their eggs.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, so if they can't get pregnant at 37 when they're they're they're ready to, we can pull their eggs out of the freezer and they've got a much better chance of getting pregnant with their 30-year-old eggs than their 37-year-old eggs.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we never say it's a guarantee.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: I tell every lady that comes in and freezes their eggs with us, it is not a guarantee.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it is a backup plan, but it's not 100%.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I would ideally rather you have a baby than freeze your eggs, but it there's no one to have a baby with, you know, then egg freezing is a great option for them.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_05: And so, I mean, that's a big transition though, from when you started probably 10 years earlier with medicine.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_05: The science and the the transition is just exponential, isn't it?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, really, we're seeing you must be seeing incredible growth in terms of options that 10 years ago weren't there, yeah?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_05: So now do you find, you know, for you that must be quite um empowering because you can actually go, well, now I can do this or I can offer that.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_05: Tell me about some of, you know, how has that changed what you do?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's amazing because I was around in the days where Professor Carl Wood, who was one of the founders of IVF in Australia, actually found me and stood, you know, steered me in the direction of IVF.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: And um, he he had an an amazing brain.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: He used to think outside, you know, the box even back then.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he came into a meeting one day, and I was just a registrar, but he came into a meeting and and we were putting the embryos in at day two at that stage because our culture conditions were so bad that we couldn't get the embryo past day two.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Ellen Townsend and I have worked out a way that we're gonna grow these embryos to day five.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we were actually, you know, the first, you know, people to grow their embryos to day five in Australia, and because they'd worked out that the embryo between day three and day five requires different culture ingredients, and so they matched what was going on in the fallopian tubes and to help those embryos go out to day five.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we do know that day five embryo, embryo transfer is far more superior than putting an embryo in at day two or three, um, because an embryo at day two or three only has four cells or eight cells, whereas a blastocyst embryo day five has a hundred cells.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really proven itself by that stage whether it can possibly be a baby or not.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that has also quickened the chance and improved the chances of outpatients getting pregnant.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then the next development that happened, well, that was even before my time, but in 1992, they discovered how to do ISE, which is where they put the sperm into the egg.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that hadn't been discovered before.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: So that was discovered in 1992.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that revolutionized male factor infertility because they had no other treatment for males until ISE was um discovered.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: So there was IXE, there was growing embryos out to blastocyst, which I got to see that.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: And now we have also the embryo testing of our embryos where cells are taken off the embryo, and we can check the embryo for chromosome problems, and we can also check the embryo for if you're carrying a genetic condition like cystic fibrosis, mascular dystrophy.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: So there's so many genes that we now screen for before we even start IVF.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we actually do a panel of about 300.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: There are some gene panels of 500 genes where you can uh match people and make sure that they're not sharing genes.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if they are sharing genes, we can screen those genes from the embryos.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: So quite fascinating things that have happened and also the egg freezing technology has improved as well.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: When we used to freeze eggs 20 years ago, we used to use the slow freezing technique.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know whether you've ever put a um bottle of Coca-Cola in the freezer, and what happens is it just explodes.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what used to happen to the eggs because when you slow freeze an egg, it used to leak all the water into the egg, and then the egg would just explode on thoring.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: So now we do vitrification, which is snap freezing the eggs to minus 190 degrees Celsius, and it doesn't damage the egg.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: So a frozen egg is as good as a fresh egg.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_05: So we can confident exponential transition.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, from when you started out to some of those things you've just outlined are really quite pivotal and quite extraordinary because they do give so many more choices, and also you obviously have to keep up at with the, I suppose, the science and the because it's moving quite quite fast.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_05: But also, it's really good to educate women and men too, who, as you say, beforehand didn't have any options, and now they're also great options for men as well.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_05: Tell me what sort of age do you you mentioned, sort of you say to people in their 30s they can start freezing their eggs, but what's the latest that you would, I suppose, take somebody on as a patient or encourage them to freeze their eggs age-wise?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's it is a choice, and um, it's not covered by Medicare in most cases, unless there is a medical reason.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it is a choice, and I must say that there have been women in their 40s who want to come in and their eggs.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: I give them all the statistics and I tell them it's not covered by Medicare, Medicare will not pay for this, and I see it as a choice for that person.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I need to do it just sometimes for a psychological reason.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I feel sorry for the 40 plus generation because they did miss out on the education for egg freezing.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: So they missed out on the discussions we're having now.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think fertility talk and egg freezing talk is not to taboo anymore.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think people are talking about it more.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so the 40 pluses, and maybe even the 38 pluses missed out on that when they were 30.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's true.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_05: Like the 20-year-olds, the 20, the 20-year-olds, the 25-year-olds, my daughter, one of my daughters is 27, all the they all just, you know, it's all discussed.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_05: It's all like all of their friends are very open about it.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's very true.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_05: The dialogue, both in the media, but also just in terms of you know, women talking about these issues, has really changed.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_05: It used to be, as you say, a little taboo to say if somebody was struggling to get pregnant, they didn't really talk about it.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was no, no, that they were embarrassed that they needed to do IFPF, whereas now people, you know, they've got pages and you know, there's Instagram stories, people posting their stories, you know, trigger day, and um, you know, and it, you know, there's forums, there's um, there's great resources for people now, and it's not nothing to be embarrassed about.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think uh one in every um classroom has an IBF baby, so probably more now, and um, and there'll be more people coming back using those eggs that were frozen, I'm sure, in the future as well.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that might give people also opportunity to have a family, having those eggs in the freezer.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: So once those eggs are then created into embryos, then that person has the opportunity to have a family.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you get pregnant, say at 37, that might be the last time you you might be able to have a baby.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you come back at 40, maybe your eggs won't be any good.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: But if you had your eggs frozen when you're in your 30s, we've still got a chance to get you that second baby.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Lion Podcast comes out every Tuesday for more amazing stories from fantastic guests.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Check out the What O'Fly Instagram for more updates.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: And as Deb would say, stay tuned, kind, and curious.