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Trump and Pod Save America Agree: JD Is Lame · Pod Save America

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I'm Tommy Vitor. On today's show, we'll talk about the
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: news that Trump appears to be giving up on his $ 1. 8
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: billion insurrectionist slush fund. He also seems quite uninterested in
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: ending the Iran war, saying he, quote, couldn't care less
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: whether talks break down. We're also going to talk about
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Tuesday's big primaries this week in Iowa and here in California,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: as well as more turbulence in Maine for Graham Plattner.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and more turbulence for J.D. Vance in his quest to
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: become Donald Trump's number one boy, chosen successor. Then New
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Jersey Senator Andy Kim talks to me about the horrifying
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: conditions he witnessed at the ICE detention center in Newark,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: where the senator was pepper sprayed by federal agents. Before
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: we start, you guys see that CBS's Scott Pelley accused
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Barry Weiss of murdering 60 Minutes? That sounds like a
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: really fun meeting to have attended. It was an all-staff
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: meeting convened by... Weiss's new handpicked executive producer, Nick Bilton.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: No Weiss at the meeting.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: She really set him up. It's your first day at
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: the office. You're trying to find the bathrooms. You're seeing
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: where your badge works and where your badge doesn't work.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Scott Pelley's saying, you piece of shit. I will fucking
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: rake your dead corpse over the bones of Don Hewitt.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: And obviously, Lovitz was hyperbole, but not as much as
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: you might think. Honestly, it was pretty close. Reading Oliver
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Darcy's status has the whole transcript of the meeting. It
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: was something. Anyway, I just bring that up because if
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: all of you want to support the growth of an
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  Speaker 1: independent pro-democracy media company that Barry Weiss can't murder, at
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: least not yet, please consider becoming a Friend of the
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  Speaker 1: Pod subscriber. You get ad-free episodes of this show, all
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• 3:23
  Speaker 1: and full access to all of our sub-stack newsletters like
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Open Tabs. Check it out at crooked.com slash friends. All right,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: let's get to the news. With the Middle East still
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: a mess and gas prices still high, the president is
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: once again working hard to communicate to the American people
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: how little he cares about these things. Here he is
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: during a hard-hitting Fox interview with his daughter-in-law, Lara Trump,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: focused like a laser on his true passion, interior design.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: This will be the entrance. into the ballroom.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: The ballroom will be right here.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: You know, the ballroom is a gift to America from
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: me and from Apple and from lots of great people.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: How often are you coming out here to check the progress?
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  Speaker 3: Well, a lot. We're going to have the inauguration here. Oh, wow.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: This stone can last a million years.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: You know, most people would put brass on top of
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: a piece of wood.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: It would be called laminated, and then in about two years,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: you'd see the brass.
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: Falling on the floor. You know, we'll delaminate this. Look,
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: solid brass. Same thing with this.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: This is all solid, beautiful, solid brass.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: We've suffered a lot under this guy. The putting labels
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: on the rooms outside the rooms. The whole point of it, man,
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: is we know it's a cool room. It's actually a
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: great thing. You don't need to label it.
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: Did you guys read Ashley Parker's story about Trump as
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: a gay icon.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: In the Atlantic?
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: I did. You will love it.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: It's so funny.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: It's so good.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: They're having the inauguration out there?
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  Speaker 3: No, they're not, by the way.
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  Speaker 6: Congress decides what the inauguration is. I'm sure he means
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: like the balls and some of the, you know, the
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: balls that.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Would happen around the inaugural. I mean, says him. He's
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: not there anymore.
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  Speaker 3: He shouldn't be that involved in the planning of it.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: You know, one would hope.
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  Speaker 1: Is he just going to stay on as like physical
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: plant director?
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  Speaker 3: Maybe he should be chaperone for J.D. J.D., you're going home.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: No, so that was on Fox over the weekend. For
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Fox viewers who wanted just a little more on what
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the government is doing about this terrible economy... On Sunday morning,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: they get to hear this from top White House economic
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: advisor slash Democratic Party plant Kevin Hassett.
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: People are spending more on gas, but they're also spending
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: more on everything else, not just groceries, but restaurants and
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: so on. And I think that that's a sign that
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: you would see when people are optimistic about the future.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Now, Tommy, you put this in Slack yesterday, I think,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: on Sunday. And I was like, isn't that the clip
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: from last month? when Kevin hasn't said this, and then
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I had to click on it and realize that he
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: basically said the same thing again, but maybe worse this time.
• 5:46
  Speaker 6: No, they just keep putting MAGA Dennis the Menace on
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  Speaker 6: TV to say stupid shit. I mean, they just like,
• 5:50
  Speaker 6: they could not seem more out of touch if they tried.
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  Speaker 6: Spending more on gas and groceries does not suggest that
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  Speaker 6: you're optimistic about the future. It suggests that you need
• 5:58
  Speaker 6: gas and groceries, and those are non-negotiable items. They're not
• 6:00
  Speaker 6: taking out loans to start a business. Like, what are
• 6:02
  Speaker 6: you talking about?
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  Speaker 3: It's also like, oh, you know, hey man, like, Most
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  Speaker 3: people are just, they're just not really paying that close
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  Speaker 3: attention to aggregate consumer spending, right? Like that matters to
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  Speaker 3: you in your morning meeting. Yeah.
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  Speaker 6: But then like the Laura Trump interview, I mean, Trump
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  Speaker 6: clearly wanted to talk about the brass thing he put
• 6:20
  Speaker 6: on the wall. Like he could, he could write Laura
• 6:22
  Speaker 6: Trump's questions for her if he wanted. It's his daughter-in-law
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: doing the interview. And he's like, they clearly went out
• 6:26
  Speaker 6: and they pitched this. Like he just, he wants to
• 6:28
  Speaker 6: tell us, I don't give a shit about anyone or
• 6:30
  Speaker 6: anything about in the world, except for myself, my arch-
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: And like he seems annoyed almost that we don't.
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  Speaker 3: Believe him at this point.
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  Speaker 1: It's so funny because we also on Friday's pod covered
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Besson in the briefing room when some reporter asked him
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: about like people's savings being low, people dipping into their savings.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: And he's like, well, according to the economic literature, that
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: could be two things. One, the Doomer view that you
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: just took, which is that people aren't confident. Or they're
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: spending so much because they are confident and that's why
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: they're dipping into their savings.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, people are racking up credit card debt because they're
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: betting on themselves. That's what's going on. That's what's going on.
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  Speaker 3: Just thought of it too late. Phantom of the ballroom.
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  Speaker 3: That's what he's sort of aiming for.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Phantom of the ballroom.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Something like that. Imagine I said it earlier.
• 7:16
  Speaker 6: Imagine I made this joke earlier. The University of Michigan's
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: Consumer Sentiment Index- is at a record low of 44.8
• 7:23
  Speaker 6: in May of 2026. That's lower than COVID.
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  Speaker 1: It's terrible.
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  Speaker 6: So the biggest concern, by the way, is cost of
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: living and gas prices.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know what the solution is? Turn that
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: frown upside down, all you doomers. Believe, believe in Donald
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Trump and his... Look, if a man can do that
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  Speaker 1: with brass, imagine what he can do for your savings.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: Best in going out there with the $ 250 bill too.
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  Speaker 3: Like the whole thing, it is....
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  Speaker 2: It is.
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  Speaker 3: He wants to lose the midterms.
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  Speaker 6: Do you see him holding up the story being like,
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: whoever edited this, who did a terrible job?
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: Pissy cadaver. He looks so, he has such a terrible,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: like kind of his whole facial expression. It's just like, just,
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  Speaker 3: it's so unlikable. Just the holding up the story with
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: the money on it.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: So obviously none of this is going too well politically
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: for Trump, but unfortunately for him, even his renovations and
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: corruption are running into some stiff headwinds. On Friday, a
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: federal judge blocked Trump's plan to close the Kennedy Center
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: for renovations and also ruled that he can't just rename
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: it for himself. There was a very long Truth Social
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: post where he was ranting about that that I have
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: to tell you, I honestly couldn't get through at all.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: It's just he was very upset.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Sorry, man.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: But basically, he's like, I'm giving up on the Kennedy Center.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: That's it. Forget it. It's like, all right, cool.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Hey, man.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: Leave her alone.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: The same day, another federal judge in Florida reopened Trump's
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: IRS settlement with his own DOJ because of what she called, quote,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: grievous allegations that the $ 1. 8 billion insurrectionist slush fund was, quote,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: premised on deception. Then another federal judge in Virginia temporarily
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: blocked the transfer of money in or out of the
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: fund while she waits to hear arguments in a lawsuit
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: challenging it. Finally, after all these reports that both Republicans
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: in Congress and White House aides were pushing Trump to
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: just give up on the slush fund altogether. It appears
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: as if he's done just that. Two senior administration officials
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: told Axios that Trump will drop the slush fund with
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: one saying, quote, it's dead for now. DOJ also posted
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: a statement saying it'll, quote, abide by the court ruling
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: blocking it, even though that block is only temporary. Do
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: you guys, we haven't heard from Trump as of this recording.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we got to hear from the big boy. Before
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: it's done, it's not done until the big boy speaks.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and even then, who knows? Even then, right. But
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: do you think he backs down this easily? And I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: think more importantly- Do you guys think this is still
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: a political issue for Republicans?
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: So for also Senate Republicans actually were pretty bothered by
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: this in a closed door meeting. Of course, John Thune
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: was was actually out there saying he didn't like this
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: very much, which is impressive for him. Of course, the
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: only thing Senate Republicans could manage to do is quietly
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: oppose it and then bravely leave town. That was their
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: way of protesting it. It was, we're not going to
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: give him more money for immigration that we don't need
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: if we're going to leave town to signal our unhappiness
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: with it. I assume and hope that we'll still have
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: votes on it this week. I think there's no, given
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: that it's only temporarily on hold and Trump clearly wants
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: to do this, I think Democrats need to get Republicans
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: on record that they would oppose having this kind of
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: a slush fund be legal now or in the future.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: And so let's get them voting on that because even
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: if they're privately saying it, they'll have to publicly do something.
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah, the for now bothered me. The for now part
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: of that report bothered me. I'm hopeful that when you're
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: primarying John Cornyn, you're primarying Bill Cassidy, and when Tom
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: Tillis hates you, all Republicans in the Senate, maybe they
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: will prevent this from ever passing or coming to be.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 10:41
  Speaker 6: I don't know if you guys read the big New
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: York Times piece from over the weekend about how the
• 10:44
  Speaker 6: slush fund came together.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: But it read.
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: like the blueprint for a future Rico case. It was
• 10:50
  Speaker 6: like Boris F Stein on the outside, like coordinating things.
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: The Trump kids want immunity for like all IRS audits, uh,
• 10:57
  Speaker 6: for their tax returns in the future. The professional staff
• 11:00
  Speaker 6: at DOJ are either horrified or quitting. And then the
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: white house political staff was just cut out of the
• 11:05
  Speaker 6: process because they probably knew that it was toxic. And
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: it's like the most corrupt sounding shit imaginable. And so
• 11:11
  Speaker 6: I don't know, knowing Trump, it's probably not the end
• 11:13
  Speaker 6: of it.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Schumer, um, is going ahead with, or he said he's
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: going ahead with making sure they have to vote on it.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: And the vote is going to be on, you know, originally,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I think the first time we talked about Democrats potentially
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: proposing amendments on this, it was like to restrict the
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: fund or whatever. There was a couple of proposals out
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: there to just ban the fund completely forever. And that's
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: what Schumer is going with reportedly, he said today. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: I think that's great because like what Republican now is
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: going to vote against the band now that Trump has said,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: or at least the White House has signaled that they're
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: giving up on it. So if Trump doesn't say anything
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: between now and the vote, like if you're a Republican
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: voting on this, you can either vote against the ban
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: and really fuck yourself in the midterms because now the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: White House has abandoned it, but now you're on record
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: supporting it, or you can vote for the ban and
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: then the ban becomes law and then it doesn't matter
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: if Trump backs off because now it's against the law.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Well, right.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: There's a pretty good position that.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: Oh, we're Democrats are great. This is ridiculous. There's no
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: good vote for the Republicans. They haven't in the past chosen.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: This is a political ploy because there is no fun.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: So I'm voting against this because Democrats are playing politics.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: They're just giving them an option to be great. Of course,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: just giving them, that's another, it's another craven pat. They're, they're,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: they're Republicans have said this is not necessary or it
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: is too late. Those have been two positions they've taken
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: in the past and trying to stop Trump. Uh, the, the,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: the other part of this too, is like in, in,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: In fairness to Trump, he must be surprised that there's
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: any pushback whatsoever. It sort of, I think, must have
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: caught him off guard that Senate Republicans have found a
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: line because they've tolerated so much brazen corruption, the pardons
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: and all the rest that led to this moment. Even
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: as we're speaking, DOJ is trying to vacate the convictions
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: of the oath keepers that Trump only commuted but didn't pardon.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: So they still are kind of just going full speed
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: ahead without having to worry about the Republicans in Congress.
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: I love that Mike Pence was on the Sunday show
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: as being like, please don't pay the people that tried
• 13:09
  Speaker 6: to hang me.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: Come on. Come on, Donald. They tried to hang me.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: They set up stocks in a noose. I watched part
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: of that Mike Pence on Meet the Press. I don't
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: know why. It doesn't sound like me.
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: I'm sure it was served to you by accident.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: His book is about the need to take on the
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: right-wing populist while he's up there just praising Donald Trump
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: and how on so many things he's doing such a
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: great job. And then he's like, Now, I do have
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: to say I am a bit critical of his continuing
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: to support the people that tried to kill me, but
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: nobody's perfect. It's unbelievable that he's still out there doing
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: this thing.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I think that there's a very small but non-zero chance
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: that the other option for Donald Trump is saying, fine,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I'll just pocket the cash then. Remember he had that
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: pissy post last week when there was a lot of
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: political blowback on the slush fund and he was like,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I could have just kept the money.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Well, that's why he's annoyed, right? Because he thought, I'm
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: going to do a $ 10 billion lawsuit.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: And then I'm actually going to do something really cool,
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: which is going to be like beloved by all because
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to keep the money.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be generous. Him and Todd Blanch thought
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: it was like too clever by half. Yes. Yes.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: And you can feel that this is the White House
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: staff being annoyed at Todd Blanch for running this drug
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: deal behind their backs. So good.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Amazing. All right. Let's talk about Iran, where Trump... can't
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: even seem to get a bad deal, let alone one
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that would justify the insane amount of money and lives
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the war has already cost. Military strikes have started again
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: around state media, said it was pausing negotiations. Trump told
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: CNBC on Monday morning that he, quote, couldn't care less
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: if the negotiations collapsed, that they, quote, took too much
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: time and started to get very boring. This was after
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: he complained on Truth Social about how negative, quote, chirping
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: about the war from political hacks is making his job tougher.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: And that we should all just sit back and relax
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: because it will all work out well in the end.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: It always does. Trump then reversed course again and said
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: that talks between the U.S. and Iran were, quote, continuing
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: at a rapid pace.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Taking too long and getting kind of boring is also
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: what he said the one and only time he went
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: down on Havana. Never going to.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Make that mistake again. Wow, Ivana. That's a.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Where that came from. I'm sorry, everybody.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: God rest her soul.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: On the golf course. On the ninth green be a blessing.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Four.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Sorry, everybody.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: My goodness.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: It just occurred to me.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Just catching strays from the grave.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Tommy. We were reliably told by Scott Jennings last Thursday
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: that Trump had reached a deal with Iran that got us, quote,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: everything we want. Mm-hmm.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: What happened?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Is it possible that Scott led us astray? Yeah.
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: Before I get to Jennings, I want to just read
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: a little more of the transcript of the CNBC interview.
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: Is this what Trump told Eamon Javers from CNBC about
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: the peace talks? I don't care if they're over. Honestly,
• 16:01
  Speaker 6: I really don't care. I couldn't care less if they're over.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: They're over.
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: If they're not, you know, I think they took too
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: much time. Frankly, I thought they started to get very boring. Again,
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: 13 service members dead, hundreds more wounded. Entire global economy
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: is on the brink of collapse.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Gas prices are up 50%. So he's bored.
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: It's just hard to wrap your head around a politician
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: saying that, a president saying that, and it not being
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: a career-ending moment, kind of like on-site, but here we are.
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: Fox News will never air it. This will never have
• 16:26
  Speaker 6: happened in the mega-media world. Now, Scott Jennings, folks know
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: him from CNN.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: You know him.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: You hate him. He's a hack.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: He's a fool.
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: He mindlessly regurgitates whatever talking points he gets sent from
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: the White House, including blatant disinformation. So I expect nothing
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: better from him. But I do hope that this disaster
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: makes sense. The Axios and some other news outlets, they
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: kind of cut and paste whatever some senior administration official
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: told them, whether it's Jared Kushner or the press office
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: or whomever, to help rethink how you're doing your job.
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: Because I get the journalism is very competitive. I get
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: that reporters are battling for every mini scoop these days.
• 17:04
  Speaker 6: But at best, you look silly. At worst, you are
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: a pawn in oil market manipulations, right? This happens every Sunday.
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: And then ultimately you're pumping out disinformation to the entire world. Remember,
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: economies in Southeast Asia have stopped because they have no
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: oil and gas. And so on the question of where
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: do we stand on a deal?
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: The deal was off. The deal was on. We're on
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: the cusp of a deal. Then we're bombing the Iranians again.
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: Trump just said he talked directly with a Hezbollah representative.
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: You guys see that today?
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: That's new. That's interesting. Interesting. And then said that Hezbollah
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: and Israel, they're cool.
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: There's a ceasefire in Lebanon now. The Iran talks are
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: proceeding quickly. The Netanyahu was like, no, they're not. What
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: are you talking about?
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: So who knows?
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I also, I mean, you tell me, Tommy, but like,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think that all the pre-spinning of what the
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: deal is going to include from the White House is
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: actually helping the negotiations that much. And in fact, may
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: be hurting them because every time they get close to
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: a deal, Then, and Iran's probably thinking, okay, like we're
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: going to do this maybe, you know, and then Trump
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: goes out and is like, we destroyed them. We got
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: the best deal ever. We got everything we ever wanted.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: And then the Iranians are probably like, well, fuck no,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to do this now.
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: Trump is going to have to give on something, whether it's, uh,
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: you know, the duration of the deal, like sanctions relief,
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: unfrozen assets, something, but he refuses to look weak. He
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: doesn't want to look like he gave a JCPOA like
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: agreement to the Iranians.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: So you're right.
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: I mean, he, it sounds like his staff are kind
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: of giving. And then he goes out and says, actually, no,
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: we're going to take the dust to, we're going to
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: not give them any money.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Like all the reports are bullshit and running.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: It's okay. Okay.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Fuck you then.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: I feel like there's two things happening. One is what
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: an actual deal will ultimately look like if there is one.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: And then there's how Trump, how the Trump administration talks
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: about the deal and then what's reported. I mean, this
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: has been, this has been sort of, the media has
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: been getting led around by Trump from when Vance went
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: to Pakistan because Vance goes to Pakistan and And then
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: within eight hours, 12 hours, the reports are stalemate, talk
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: at an impasse, talks are falling apart. There haven't really
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: been talks. And we've spent the next last several weeks
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: having deal falls apart, verge of a deal. Deal falls apart,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: verge of a deal, when what would be happening in
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: a normal administration is the long grinding negotiation of a
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: complicated deal in which there are gives and takes and
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: puts and whatever. And- Instead, it's the kind of through
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: the Trump prism. And so all these outlets are hearing,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: I guess, from the administration officials, from who knows, saying
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: we're on the verge of a deal. They report that
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: out faithfully and then it falls apart the very next day.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: The reality of there will be hopefully there will be
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: a deal. It will look something like the JCPOA and
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: then Trump will declare it the best the best deal.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: in history. Like one hopes that that's what we'll eventually
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: get to. And then this, all this up and down
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: shit will have just been sort of like silly Trump
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: chaos on the way there. I guess.
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: I think what's, what's triggering the hell out of me though,
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: is like, ultimately like there will be reporting on that.
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: We'll evaluate the merits of any deal. But that deal
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: could have been gotten without a disastrous war that led
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: to the deaths of thousands of Iranians.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Of course. The service members, the entire economy.
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: And it's like, I'm not worried about this table losing
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: that context. I am worried about the broader media, like
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: helping Trump sell a deal by like doing this constant
• 20:23
  Speaker 6: incremental reporting by retweeting, you know, Scott Jennings saying this
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: is a win for the Trump administration, et cetera. It's like, no,
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: this is a disaster no matter what happens next.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the honest thing. to report on this, or
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: if you were some kind of a conservative pundit, the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: honest thing to even say is, glad it's over now,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: but that wasn't worth it. And not in exactly those words,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: but that is the tenor of whatever deal we're going
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: to get, is that there's no way we came out
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: better than we started.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Because even just on uranium enrichment, what I saw over
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: the weekend or early today was what was on the
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: table was a 20-year moratorium, which is what, up from
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: the 10-year moratorium. So that You claim this was the
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: worst deal in history. Your deal is just a slightly
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: longer timeline on one piece of it with other concessions
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: along the way. That was their starting position and they
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: worked down to 15 maybe. So who even knows? Who knows?
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: But it's just like, he is just, there will be
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: a hard, if there's a deal, it will be a
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: deal that isn't some amazing victory for Donald Trump. He'll
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: call it that. He'll get his 24 hours to say
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: that and then we'll live with the consequences of having
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: fought this stupid fucking war.
• 21:35
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• 24:10
  Speaker 1: the face. As you're listening to this, voters in Iowa
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: and California are voting in some very consequential elections. Let's
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: start with Iowa, where State Representative Josh Turek and State
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Senator Zach Walz are in a tough primary fight for
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the state's open Senate seat, which will be hugely important. Uh,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: this one has become yet another meta commentary on Chuck
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Schumer and the DSCC trying to influence key primaries, uh,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: in this case in favor of Turek. Schumer hasn't, uh,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: publicly endorsed Turek, but his like aligned pack has contributed.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: So his Gillibrands, he, you know, it's reported that he
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: was sort of a Schumer recruit, um, much to Turek's dismay.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Um, Yeah, he should endorse Walls.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Tommy, you interviewed both Turk and Walls on the show.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: For people just catching up, what are each of them
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: bringing to the table? What were your general impressions?
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, so Josh Turk, he's a state rep
• 25:01
  Speaker 6: in Western Iowa in Council Bluffs. He was born with
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: spina bifida. He uses a wheelchair. He's a two-time Paralympic
• 25:07
  Speaker 6: gold medal winner in wheelchair basketball. And he's just like,
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: his life story is just incredibly gritty. um, determined guy.
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: Like he got cut from the men's team six times
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: before he actually won the gold medal. He just kept
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: coming back and come back and competing.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: And like, there's videos of him.
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: He literally like climbs out of his wheelchair, climbs up
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: the stairs with his hand, drags a wheelchair up after
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: him and then knocks on doors. Like that's how he
• 25:29
  Speaker 6: goes door to door. So like gritty dude, uh, clearly
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: benefiting from being Schumer's pick and an associated $ 9 million
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: vote vets add by that is drastically increases at a
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: name ID. Cause no one knew who any of these
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: guys were. And then Zach is a member. Zach Wall
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: is a member of the Iowa State Senate. He's from
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: Iowa City. He was Senate Minority Leader for a couple
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: of years. Our listeners probably saw him speak in 2011,
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: even though they don't remember it or knew it was
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: him at the time. He was a 19-year-old. He delivered
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: a speech asking Iowa legislators not to pass a constitutional
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: amendment banning gay marriage and civil unions that went super
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: viral back in, what, 2011? And it was a great speech,
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: really powerful speech, like supercharged his career.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: So I interviewed him both. I liked him both a lot.
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: Everyone seems to think that Josh is likely to win
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: A lot of people I know who work in Iowa
• 26:13
  Speaker 6: politics think he is more electable because he's won in
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: more conservative parts of the state. We're just going to
• 26:17
  Speaker 6: take on Congresswoman Ashley Hinton for Joni Ernst's seat because
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: she's resigning. And no matter who wins, Iowa is like
• 26:23
  Speaker 6: ground zero for politics this next cycle because you got
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: Rob Sand, who could be the next governor. You have
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: this open Senate seat. And then there's like three competitive
• 26:32
  Speaker 6: House races, a bunch of other statewide things. So like
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: Iowa is absolutely crucial. So this was one we're going
• 26:37
  Speaker 6: to be watching going forward.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I will say that I'm, I've been impressed by both
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: of them, by both Josh Turk and Zach Walls. And
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I know some of these Senate primary fights are particularly intense,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and I know this one is too. I do know, like,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I was kind of joking about Josh Turk probably wishing
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: that Schumer didn't spend some PAC money on him or
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: necessarily recruit him. But, like, I think that I understand
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: why Walls is, you know, Walls has tried to make
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: this a race about sort of an outsider versus the
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: establishment as Turk is the establishment. I kind of think that, like,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: you know, Turek being picked by Chuck Schumer is not
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: quite the same as Turek being part of the establishment
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: or the establishment spending money on him. Like a lot
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: of the money that's spent on him is vote vets.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: So it's like, it's not, at least for me, it
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't worry me that he's some establishment pick necessarily. I
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: feel like the case for that isn't as strong as
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: in some of these other cases. But I also like,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you know, Zach Walls was in here too. I thought
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: he was very compelling as well. So I like both
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: of them. Love it.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Anything?
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: No. Yeah.
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: I think there's some races where being seen as like
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: the Schumer guy, the D.C. guy, I think has been
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: a real cross to bear. I think that was that
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: happened in Maine, which we'll talk about in a second.
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: I just don't think it's been that in Iowa as
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: much this time, in part because this vote that's by
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: has been so big and so significant in helping push
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: push Josh forward. Also, he's a known quantity in western Iowa.
• 27:59
  Speaker 6: I think he's never been worked in D.C.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Yes. I think it's harder to lay that on him,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: but we'll see. We should also say that for people wondering.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: The reason that VoteVets is spending money on him is
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: not because he's a veteran, but his father was in
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Vietnam and potentially exposed to Agent Orange.
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: And that's why they think Josh has spina bifida. But also,
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: I think VoteVets is seen as doing Schumer's political bidding here.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, also true. Also true.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Let's turn to California. The big race, of course, is
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: the jungle primary for governor. We have covered the campaign
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: a lot. And between us, we've interviewed Tom Steyer, Katie Porter,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and Matt Mahan. We also reached out over a dozen
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: times to the apparent frontrunner, Javier Becerra. And even though
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: they expressed interest, they unfortunately wouldn't commit to a time.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Same question for each of you. Who'd you end up
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: supporting and why? And who else did you like? If
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: this were a ranked choice voting, who might you support
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: after that?
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: Well, my ballot still hasn't been filled out. So I'm
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: still gettable. I'm still gettable. I am going to vote
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: for Tom Steyer. because I would like to see if Becerra,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: if the polls are to be believed and they've been
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: pretty consistent, Becerra is going to move on. One other will,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: there's a chance Tom Steyer can be that second person.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: I would much rather have two Democrats battling it out
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: for the future of the Democratic Party in this state
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: than I would have Becerra versus a Republican who has
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: not passed the threshold question of opposing Donald Trump's election lines.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Like that to me is a threshold question. You could
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: be frustrated with Democrats in this state. You can believe
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: that Democrats have fucked up in California. But if you
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: can't say that Donald Trump lost that election, if you
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: can't stand up to him, then that is so fucking dangerous.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: And he's a nut for that. So that's where I'm at.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: I also really liked my conversation with Tom Steyer. I
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: think he had good answers for some of the questions
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: about where Democrats have gone wrong in California and some
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: of the criticisms. I also really like Katie Porter, but
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: she just hasn't risen to the top of the polls.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Like she was, she kind of slowly fell behind and
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: I think it's, it sucks because I really like her,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: but I'm trying to be pragmatic with my vote. Yeah.
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: If I could wave a magic wand and make someone governor,
• 30:04
  Speaker 6: it would be Katie Porter. But she is down in
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: the polls and I'm having the same, I have the
• 30:09
  Speaker 6: same rationale. I want to vote strategically because I think
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: Steyer and Becerra going to a runoff would be great.
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: It would kind of be annoying if we had to
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: deal with, you know, running in Steve Hilton, who's a
• 30:20
  Speaker 6: random British short king who's like, deep in the tech community.
• 30:24
  Speaker 6: I don't think his height's a problem, but the, uh,
• 30:25
  Speaker 6: I do love that that triggered you of all the,
• 30:27
  Speaker 6: all the criticism, but like, but I also love that
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: Steve Hilton and Chad Bianco are calling on each other
• 30:31
  Speaker 6: to drop out still, even though Hilton is like crushing
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: Bianco and Trump has endorsed Hilton.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: But that's where I was.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: I would, if I were doing rank choice, I would
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: be Katie. Number one, no question because that that's, that's who,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: that's who I'd vote for, but that's not the world
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: we live in. I, um, I had a real hard
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: time with this and I voted a couple of days ago.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Um, I, California is a big state with a, it's
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: hard to govern, a lot of problems. I don't really feel,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I thought about Becerra, but like, I don't feel confident
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: giving the top job to someone who's had, he's had
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: 35 years in elected office to prove himself, but has
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: received mainly bad reviews from his colleagues. And the one exec,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: especially in the one executive job that he's had, which
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: was HHS secretary under Biden. And, you know, just an example,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: like I think his housing policy, which was also like,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: he was very late to introduce any kind of housing
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: policy whatsoever until after ballots dropped. And then even then
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: it was like more NIMBY than Steyer or Porter or
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: anything else. And now like, I hope I'm wrong. And
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: if he wins, then like, great, maybe he'll be a
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: great governor. But I was like, I just, it prevented
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: me from voting Becerra. Steyer, like I'm more confident in Steyer,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: but even then, like on the experience question, there was
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: just something, for me, it was like the combination of
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: He's never had any experience in elected office or governing
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: anything and is a billionaire who basically ran for president first,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: flamed out there, then spent just the GDP of a
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: small country on this race. I like his positions better
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: than Becerra and a lot of the other candidates, but
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: there's just something a little icky to me about it.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I am not as worried if It's Steve Hilton versus
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Becerra or Steyer because the state's registration is going to
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: take care of itself. And there's just, I just, it's
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: not a concern I have that Steve Hilton is going
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: to become governor. So I just voted for Katie Porter
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: because I like her. And it's like, I realized that
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: she has, it is the least strategic thing. It is
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: the least strategic thing I could do. But Katie to
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: me is like, I've known her a while. The temperament
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: with her staff stuff is obviously like, it bothered me
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: a lot because like we've known her forever. And I
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: actually didn't know that until those stories came up. And
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: I also don't think she's going to win at this point,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: but I'm like, who do I want to be governor?
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: She's thought about the job a lot. She has like
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: a really well thought out policy platform. She's actually worked
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: on passing legislation and getting things done when she was
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: in Congress. And I feel like she's just like done
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: the work for the job more than anyone else.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: But if you would rather Tom, I feel the same way,
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: but I would rather like, as of right now, and
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: I want to talk to Javier Becerra if he's willing now,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: like I, I think Javier Becerra has said he wants
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: to come on the show, but he's hoping that he
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: and Hilton get through the other side, right? And then
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: of course, we're doing an interview about a Democrat versus
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: a Republican, which is very different than a conversation about
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: a Democrat versus a Democrat. But as of right now,
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: I think Tom Steyer has answered some of the harder
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: questions better than Javier Becerra. And if it's Becerra, I'm
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: voting for him. And if I'm trying to get the best,
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: because I believe you, I don't think Hilton's gonna be
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: the governor of the state. I want the best person
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: to be the governor of California. And right now, if there's,
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: I wanna see, and maybe also Becerra having to beat
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: Tom Steyer would make him a stronger candidate too. So
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: that's my kind of, hope that we can get Tom
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Steyer through this thing so that we have a better
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: debate and, and Javier Becerra has to be put through
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: his paces if he is.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Going to win.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: I do feel like, you know, as sort of blah
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: as this race has been for governor, I am very
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: open and hopeful that both like that either Steyer or
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Becerra will like prove me wrong and become a great governor.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: And you're right. Maybe if it's Becerra and Steyer in
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: a runoff, then there's even more time for them to
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Duke it out and, and, and show their, uh, show
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: that they're ready for the job. Um, We also got
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: a mayoral race going on here in L.A. Lovett interviewed
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: challenger Nithya Raman for the show, who we all know.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And I supported Nithya, donated to her, known her a
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: long time. We also reached out to Karen Bass, who
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: has come on the show before, but she opted not
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: to come on before the primary. Nithya and Bass are
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: in a close race with reality TV personality turned mayoral
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: candidate Spencer Pratt, a registered Republican quasi-endorsed by Trump, who said,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: I like him. I hear he's MAGA. I like him.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: And Pratt was in New York over the weekend closing
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: the campaign like this.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: That even testing your drugs on a dog is the
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: least of the worst of what these demons are doing
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: to these poor animals. They're lighting them on fire. They're
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: raping these dogs. They're abusing them. They're breeding them to
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: the point that they die because they've been so overbred.
• 35:01
  Speaker 6: Sir, this is a Wendy's. Yeah, I don't doubt that there's.
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: horrible things happen to animals in some of these places,
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: but it's very weird that he decided to go to
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: New York for several days.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: I think dropped.
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: $ 34, 000 on his hotel rooms and left the state the week.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Before the election.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's billboards all around, or at least I saw,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: I think I saw these two in downtown LA of
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: him saying, if you're, you know, dogs vote for Spencer Pratt.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: So he's trying to make this like the closing thing,
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: that for whatever reason, they think this is something that's
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: going to break through for them. I don't know.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think of this race? What do
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you think of that?
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Apparently, Spencer Pratt's already sold the rights to do a
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: reality show if he becomes the mayor. I think this
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: applies to both the governor's race and to the L.A.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: mayor's race, which is when you watch the debates, there
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: is a, like Steve Hilton, Bianco, Pratt, they are capturing
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: what is a very real frustration with Democratic governance in
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: this state. with mismanagement, with a kind of fecklessness and
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: lack of emotion and passion for good government and making
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: shit work, work better, work faster, answer people's concerns. I
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: don't think the answers that these Republicans are offering or
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: that Spencer Pratt are offering are what we need. But
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: the fact that there's an opening speaks to the failure
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: of Democrats, both on policy, but also just as candidates
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: to rise to meet what is like real and deep
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: frustration with people in Los Angeles. These are all Democratic voters,
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: almost all Democratic voters. And they have real anger about
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: what they feel is the decline in Los Angeles. Now,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: I think Nithya cares deeply about the city. I think
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: that she is thinking hard about how to actually address
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: these issues. I think what has been a challenge both
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: in that debate, I think with her on the campaign
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: trail is When I talked to her, she made this point,
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: which really resonated with me, that there's this feeling when
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: you talk about Karen Bass, where's the energy? Where's the hunger?
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Where's the speed? Where's the sense of urgency? That was
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: about the fires, but everything else. And I wanted to
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: see more of that from Nithya. And to be honest,
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: I feel like as a candidate, she hasn't shown the
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: same kind of spirit that she's promising to bring if
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: she becomes mayor. But I do think that she has
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: thought a lot about how to address her housing issues.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: She's thought a lot about what is has allowed production
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: to leave Los Angeles. I am voting for Nithya. And
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: my hope is that Bass and Nithya make it out
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: of the primary so that the two of them can
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: go head to head. And then I think that'll be
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: like a great contest.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:30
  Speaker 6: So I'm full disclosure, I'm a Nithya donor, mostly because
• 37:32
  Speaker 6: your wife asked me to be. But I voted for
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: Nithya too. The reason I'm mad about the status quo too,
• 37:37
  Speaker 6: like I share a lot of Spencer's rage about the fires,
• 37:39
  Speaker 6: especially the communications issues after the fires or during the fires.
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: I don't think he's the answer to those problems, but
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: I share his anger, the frustration. And the problem, it
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: wasn't just that Mayor Bass was out of the country
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: when the fire started, although that was extremely bad and
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: kind of, in my view, was hard to forgive. But it's,
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: I think, hard to overstate how bad the communication was
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: from the city during that period and how scary it
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: was to live here when the sun would go down
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: and the winds would pick up and you'd lie in
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: bed being like, am I endangering my children by sticking
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: around the city? You know, like that's where people's heads
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: were and there was just like, The communication wasn't just bad.
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: Remember that night when there was like four mistaken, like
• 38:13
  Speaker 6: fake Amber alerts telling people to evacuate when they didn't
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: need to, right? Like that shit is unforgivable. So that
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: is why I voted for change. But if we were
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: being honest, like I do think Nithya has struggled in
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: this race. She has struggled to articulate like clearly what
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: she would do. She seems to struggle to connect with
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: voters on the campaign trail.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: And then the debate was quite bad.
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: Like Spencer Pratt, I think defined her as like a co-incumbent.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: At the debate. And she didn't seem like a challenger.
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: And so if she makes the runoff, and I really
• 38:40
  Speaker 6: hope she does, she's got a lot of work to
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: do to get things back on track and to, you know,
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: run a lot harder against whoever her opponent is and
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: take back that kind of like insurgent, like I'm not
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: the status quo message.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: It has seemed to me like in this race, we've
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: ended up with three archetypes of candidates that we see
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: across the country and have for the last like decade now,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: which in Bass, you have someone who is very much
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: establishment along with all of the lack of energy that
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: comes with that. And she's kind of just, you know,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: exactly like, you know, running around bragging that like, we've
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: reduced homelessness by 17%. And everyone's like walking around and
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: you can see that you're like 17% and it doesn't
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: look like 17%. And is that a big number? And, um,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: has also been more nimby on housing has sort of
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: gutted a lot of the housing reforms or hasn't pursued them. Um,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: hasn't been a great communicator and, you know, it was
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: just kind of in the job and doesn't communicate well
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: or a lot. And then in Nithya, you have someone
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: who was like, she, this is like what I was
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: just saying about Katie Porter, right? Who has really thought
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: about these issues, who I think is a wonderful public
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: servant and I think could be a really good public servant,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: but like has not met the sort of performance related
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: requirements of a candidate. And it is unfortunate that you
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: can't just be ready to be good at the job
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: and be really smart and into the policy and stuff
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: like that. And that you also need to perform, but
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: we've said this a million times on the show forever.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Like that's what you need. And we also have like
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of Democrats like that across the country. And
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: then in Pratt, You have someone who, when there is
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: democratic governance and a person in power does not fix
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: the problems that an area is facing, it is fairly
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: easy for a right-wing populist who's good at getting attention
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: and no one's better at getting attention than a reality
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: TV star to come in and tell everyone, yes, you
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: are pissed. I'm pissed too. And if you elect me,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: then you can like stick it to the people in charge,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: even though his plans are not just cruel. They're just
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: stupid and that he can't do them. They're against the law.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Like he doesn't have the power to do a lot
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: of the shit he's talking about. He's just making a
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: bunch of fucking, you know, empty promises that he's not
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: going to be able to fulfill if he wins. But
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: no one cares about that. People care about like, OK,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: he's angry and I'm angry and that's enough.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: It was so cool when Nithya just like, you know what?
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: Fuck it. And drove down and said, I'm going to
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: run for mayor. And that was it was so exciting
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: because it was like, you know what? she's, nobody else
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: is stepping up. People, no one, everyone is frustrated with
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: Karen Bass. There's a collective judgment that Karen Bass just like,
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: just didn't bring, uh, like the, the, the energy and,
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: and direction of the city needs. And she's going to
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: jump in and be the one to do it. And
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: I've wanted that same energy in the campaign, but just
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: hasn't been there. Like with Bass, like, you know, she, I,
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: when I talked to her on love it or leave
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: it a couple, it was right before she came out, she,
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: she ran claiming she was not going to be an
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: inbie She put out some housing policies that were pretty good,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: but then they got watered down through consensus.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Also sounds like what Becerra did.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: Right. And then you and then she comes out against
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: SB 79 because that's what the city council is doing.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: Took her years to put to put in charge somebody
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: to make someone the czar of filming in L.A.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Like she's just no deputy mayor for housing.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: And so like that, that to me. And, you know,
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: part of why I think the campaigning does matter and
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: why I think I want to see Nithya be a
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: stronger candidate and stronger campaigner. is because in this moment,
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: in politics today, how you campaign, showing that you can
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: do it, that's a big part of what it is
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: to be a mayor. Like someone who's gonna be out
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: there every day, like hitting the message, someone who's gonna
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: be like making news all the time, showing people what
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: you're doing, showing people what matters, right? Like it's not
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: just about the kind of performance. It's not just a show.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Now I will say, there's been a ton of commentary
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: on this race and analysis, people talking about it. I
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: have no fucking idea what's gonna happen God knows what
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: this electorate looks like. I know. And for people who
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: don't know LA, it is 15% registered Republican, right? And
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: so even if Spencer Pratt in some of these polls
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: is getting 20% anywhere between 20% and even as high
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: as 30%, that's still nowhere what you'd need to win
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a general election, certainly, and maybe not even to advance
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: in the primary. Also, the way LA is set up,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Santa Monica has its own, like if you're in Santa
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Monica or West Hollywood or Beverly Hills or Pasadena, like
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: you're not voting for mayor of LA.
• 43:01
  Speaker 6: A lot of people think they're Pratt voters and then
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: they're going to get to the polls and figure out
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: that they're not eligible.
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: Exactly.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Because they're in LA County.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: It could end up, so he could either surprise us
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: and do really well, or it could be this election
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: where just a bunch of people who don't pay attention
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: to politics at all in other parts of LA, just
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: like dutifully vote for Karen Bass or Nithya. Like we,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I just, I don't know. So pretending that I know
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen is just.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Crazy.
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: It is an interesting window into just sort of the
• 43:26
  Speaker 6: zeitgeist of the electorate. I mean, there is an anti-incumbent
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: rage across the country right now, but we're in California,
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: a state where there's all democratic governance. And so Spencer
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: Pratt is channeling that in a different direction. It's interesting
• 43:36
  Speaker 6: to see. It's also interesting the way he's kind of
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: exposing the incoherence of the MAGA and the MAHA agenda.
• 43:42
  Speaker 6: I remember when they were very mad about the COVID vaccine,
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: and now Spencer Pratt is like, I will take all
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: the drug addicts and I will lock them up for
• 43:51
  Speaker 6: five days or whatever and force them into treatment.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: It's like, oh, okay.
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: Well, that's different than the freedom agenda that we were
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: talking about under Robert F.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: Kennedy, but okay. Well, the way it works, it's a
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: freedom for me. Not for them.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys are excited or looking
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: into any other races in California, but Michael Tubbs for
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Lieutenant Governor. Remember, crooked contributor and former crooked guest is
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: running for Lieutenant Governor. Love Michael. And our buddy Jake
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Levine is running against Brad Sherman. Congressman Brad Sherman, in
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: the California 32nd, which is Palisades and upwards towards Encino
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: in that area. So Jake's given him a good challenge.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: And the hope there, right, is that he can keep Sherman,
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: because Sherman is well-known in that district and is expected
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: to sort of lead the polls.
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: And old.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: He's old. But if Jake can get it to keep
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: him under 50, and then they can go on to
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: a runoff.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, one other thing for people watching the returns. A
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: lot of Democrats, including John Lovett here, have held onto
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: their ballots to the very end. And California is always
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: notoriously late in counting ballots. And so it's a high
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: probability that this will have a red mirage in the
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: voting as the returns come in, especially this year. Someone
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: did a party breakdown, I think it was Galen Druk,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: that in 2022, the final party breakdown was 50% D, 29.5% R, 19.9% other.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Right now, the party breakdown and the ballots that have
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: come in, and this is like election day, basically, 45.9%, 33.5%, 20.6%.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: So it's already like, it's off. And so the first
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: ballots that are gonna be counted are the ones that
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: are already in. And so now the electorate could also
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: be more red, but. I am already worried about the
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Spencer Pratt and who knows Donald Trump could jump into
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: and be like, we won. And then suddenly we're being
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: overtaken as the ballots are counted later in the week.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: So everyone should prepare for that.
• 45:47
  Speaker 6: One possibility I think is like pretty high on the
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: list of possibilities is on election night, you have Becerra one,
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: Hilton two.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: And then after a couple of days, it goes Becerra, Steyer.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden Hilton is saying I
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: was locked out by the Democratic machine.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: The good news is, yeah, that message I think will
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: resonate nationally. I think California voters are pretty well conditioned
• 46:06
  Speaker 6: how stupid and long it takes us to count ballots.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: I wish it was faster.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: This is like the whole thing. It's like, that's how
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: it is in California. We do it the stupidest way
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: fucking possible. Why? Why? Other states can count ballots in
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: a couple of days. Why does it take here two weeks?
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: Fucking stupid.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I think it's all the mail, right? Because if you
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: can drop it in a mailbox on June 2nd, on
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: the day of the primary, then like, it takes at
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: least a couple of days for the mail to get it.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: But then it, that is not still long. It still
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: keeps going, but there's all, there's some built in just
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: because of the mail.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Of course. You got to get rid of those mail-in ballots.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Like Trump says, thank God we have mail-in ballots. Our
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: ballot is very long.
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: It's complicated. There's lots of things.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: So long search.
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: There's lots of positions you've never heard of.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: It's very, thank God for that.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: But mail-in ballots.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Positive America is brought to you by ZipRecruiter.
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• 48:25
  Speaker 1: We also had more news over the weekend in the
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: main Senate race, where Graham Plattner is likely to win
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: the nomination in next week's primary. Stories in the New
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: York Times and the Wall Street Journal reported that as
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: his campaign began last year, Plattner's wife, Amy Gertner, told
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: a campaign staffer that Plattner had exchanged sexual messages with
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: several women, and this was after Plattner and Gertner were
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: married in late 2023, but that they had stopped before
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: the campaign began and Plattner and Gertner had gone through therapy.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: The entire situation is very messy. The staffer that uh
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: platner's wife told genevieve mcdonald has since left the campaign
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: and and she was the one who originally talked to
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: the wall street journal and she's talked to the new
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: york times and she's become a public critic of platner
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: um platner said that at least some of what mcdonald
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: told the new york times wasn't true but both he
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: and his wife amy gertner and the campaign have all
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: confirmed the existence of the messages And then Janet Mills,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: who suspended her campaign in April, said in an interview
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: on Sunday that actually she's still on the ballot, and
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: she also just posted the first tweet from her campaign account,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: the tweet where she suspended her campaign, and it was
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: a happy Pride Month tweet.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a sort of... Neither here nor there. Just
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: try or don't. Yeah, you can't half run for office.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: What are we doing here? Well, you can make the
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: argument that she kind of half ran in the first place.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: Continuation of the status quo. All right.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think about this latest development and
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: how it might impact the race?
• 49:53
  Speaker 6: I mean, I think the main risk for Platiner is
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: the cumulative impact of these stories and scandals along with
• 49:59
  Speaker 6: the Reddit stuff. Because I think main voters have shown
• 50:02
  Speaker 6: to be quite willing to give them the benefit of
• 50:04
  Speaker 6: the doubt. for the past Reddit posts and accept his
• 50:07
  Speaker 6: explanation that I was in a bad place. This happened
• 50:10
  Speaker 6: in the past. I've grown, I've changed and moved on.
• 50:13
  Speaker 6: You know, I think voters are like, okay, we get that.
• 50:16
  Speaker 6: This latest, what are we calling it? Sexting scandal? Like
• 50:19
  Speaker 6: this stuff was very recent. We're talking like 2023. And
• 50:22
  Speaker 6: so I think these days, sexual allegations of where it's
• 50:27
  Speaker 6: just infidelity or infidelity adjacent, like don't tend to be
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: campaign ending, especially when.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: Amy Gertner said, This is a private matter. We worked
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: through it. I love him. I have a great marriage,
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: et cetera.
• 50:40
  Speaker 6: But I do worry that the cumulative nature of this
• 50:43
  Speaker 6: stuff might make voters think one, like, is this guy
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: a good guy? And two, what else do we not
• 50:49
  Speaker 6: know about him? And so I think Plattner's campaign can
• 50:53
  Speaker 6: weather this. They will likely weather this. I would recommend
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: less criticism of the media for covering the story. I
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: think it's a valid story to cover.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Um, and, and the New York times and wall street
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: journal ultimately got the story.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: Right. Right.
• 51:06
  Speaker 6: And I would just say, you know, I think you
• 51:07
  Speaker 6: have to own it.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: You have to own that.
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: This was shitty behavior. It was a mistake that we've moved. Uh,
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: we've that the two of them have worked through privately.
• 51:14
  Speaker 6: And then in a few days from now, that's when
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: you sort of pivot to the message about getting back
• 51:20
  Speaker 6: to issues.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: Cause that's right.
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: And that is what voters want to talk about, but
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: there's going to be a period of time where folks
• 51:24
  Speaker 6: talk about this cause it just broke. And I think
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: you can't scold the press for covering a thing. that
• 51:29
  Speaker 6: was valid enough that your spouse brought.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: It forward to your campaign staff to talk to them about.
• 51:33
  Speaker 6: So, um, you know, like it's fair game, obviously. If
• 51:36
  Speaker 6: Susan Collins was slinging nudes on Snapchat, like we'd be
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: talking about it.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying?
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: So by the fall, we might be, we, uh, um,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: all that said, like, I do think what got that
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: hammer and sickle tattoo to which interview McDonald, the platter step,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: former platinum staffer did here is really, uh, shitty on
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: a human level.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: It's unethical.
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: Um, if I were Amy Gertner, I would be furious. Um,
• 52:03
  Speaker 6: and so, you know, that part of it's pretty gross.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: Like if a candidate just had the Reddit story said like,
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: I was going through a really tough time in my
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: life and I posted some heinous shit. It was like,
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: and I regret it. Uh, but I've been through a
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: lot of therapy. It had to do with my PTSD
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: and I'm on the other side of it. You'd be like, okay,
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: like people grow and they change the tattoo. You'd say I,
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: this was stupid tattoo. I didn't understand what it meant
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: at the time. I'm covering it up. Okay. Uh, early
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: in my marriage, I was a real, I was in
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: a really shitty place and I was having these, I was,
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know what he was doing, sexting, whatever. Uh,
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: but my wife and I have worked through it and
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: it's a private matter. She's with, we're together because we,
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: we love each other. And, uh, that's all that should
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: really count. You'd say, okay, I feel like you add
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: them all up together. And then there's all these insinuations
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: that there's more coming, more coming, more coming. You see
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: why people would be concerned. what I find like sort
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: of hard to wrap my mind around this is that like,
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: why do we care about red flags? Right? Like all
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: of these are not, what kind of center is he
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: going to be? Is he a good person? Does he
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: have our values? Does he, does he have a good
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: character at root? Or is he a, is he a
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: flawed person who's made terrible mistakes? Who's trying to become
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: a better person? Or is the insinuation that all of
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: this adds up to evidence that he will be a
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: bad Senator who's actually not going to do the things
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: he is claiming he's going to do, that he's going
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: to be a Fetterman, right? That he's going to, disappoint
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: us in some way, that he has like fundamental flaws.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: And I don't know the answer to that. What I'm
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: amazed by is how many kind of active, hyper-engaged Democrats online,
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: who do shape how we talk about these things, claim
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: to know with such certainty about this, right? Like they know,
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: they know, and they're so shocked that other people don't
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: agree with them. And I, look, I'm not a main voter,
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: but a lot of this is, do you think he's
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: a bad person Do you think that he's going to
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: lose because of these stories, which is just another way
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: of saying you think the voters of Maine will think
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: he's a person of bad character? I don't know, but
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: I just... I find that it's a lot of people
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: kind of fighting over not whether or not Graham Platner
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: is going to do the things he says he's going
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: to do and is the person he claims to be now,
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: more kind of re-litigating their arguments and anger at the
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: factions of the party that they're always in dispute with. Yeah,
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: I was.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: In thinking about this, I was trying to separate my
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: personal feelings about this with my political analysis of what
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: it means. And personally, I think infidelity is a mistake
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: and it shows poor judgment. For me, it's not a
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: deal breaker if a candidate with past infidelity issues has
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: worked through those to their spouse's satisfaction, which is the
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: case here. It's still not great, but it's not a
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: deal breaker. Um, if it's a deal breaker for other people,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I don't judge that either. Like you make your own determinations.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I think in the, in terms of like the timeline,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: when everything happened, it is very clear to me. I
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: think it's probably clear to everyone now that Graham Plattner
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: did not think he was going to be a candidate
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: for office up until the minute he was a candidate
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: for office and lived his life accordingly. Um, and probably,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: you know, other people will say, well, I didn't make
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: mistakes like he did. And I didn't get that kind
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: of tattoos. Correct.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Like he, he lived his life, not thinking he would
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: ever be a candidate for public office. And then he
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: ran for office and then they were like, all right,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: what's in the past? And all the stuff's coming out,
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: including at the time he decided to run for office,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: these messages, which his wife brought up to the campaign.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: So again, all of the accusations and all the stories
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: about Plattner have been from about behavior and things he
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: did before he started running for office.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: And so for me, I think, okay, the whole like
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: I've changed and I've grown. It's not about like I
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: was a kid and did crazy things. It was I
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: was never going to run for office and now I'm
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: running for office and I'm trying to be your senator.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: So what kind of senator are you going to be? Right. Politically,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: my analysis of this is you're right that like these
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: things start stacking on top of each other. And I
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: think that the larger issue for people becomes trust. Right.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Because and this is where the is more going to
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: come out or why didn't the campaign like first of all,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: some people like why didn't the campaign tell us this
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: if they knew this? I don't think campaigns are necessarily
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: in the business of dumping all of the opposition research
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: they do on their own candidates.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: Not incredibly personal, painful stuff.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Right, into the public. Like that doesn't usually happen.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: Absolutely not on this one. She came, hey, just so
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: you know, this is something that happened in our past,
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: but we're good. It's not an issue. We're together. We're happy.
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: That is never, of course they don't come up. That's
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: a private matter.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Right. But I think that, look, Andrew Kaczynski on the
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: tattoo story, like who's reporting, I trust a lot and
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: is a very good reporter, has the, you know, the
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: story that, maybe Platner knew what the tattoo signified sometime
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: after he got up, but before he ran and the,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: and you know, Platner has been a little sort of
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: sketchy on explaining that. And now this one, it was like, well,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: I think that she, she told the, you know, she
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: lied to the times and the time story wasn't right,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: but it was. So there is this, what I worry
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: about and what I think about if I was them
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: is like, there is a trust issue now that could
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: become a bigger trust issue. And I do think that,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: that the campaign and Plattner might think these issues don't
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: matter or they're private or whatever, but he has to
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: now work to build people's trust and keep people's trust
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: between now and November because people, even people who like him,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: are going to start to question, well, is he telling
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: the full truth about everything? Is there more? Are they transparent?
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: And that, to me, does bear on what kind of
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: senator you are. So I think the most important thing
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: for them is to, like, go and do the work
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: and like earn people's trust and take all the tough
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: questions and, and, and give all the explanations you need
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: until people are bored, bored asking the questions. Yeah.
• 57:42
  Speaker 6: I think you gotta probably be a little more transparent
• 57:44
  Speaker 6: on this one. I look, I also, you know, I
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: hear what you're saying on how you were sort of
• 57:47
  Speaker 6: thinking about this. I don't think most people though, draw
• 57:49
  Speaker 6: a line at when you decided to run to office
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: for kind of like when they judge your decision-making or
• 57:53
  Speaker 6: the morality of this. I think, I think if like
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: the tattoos are bridged too far to you, I understand
• 57:59
  Speaker 6: that I'm not going to tell you otherwise. I mean, what,
• 58:01
  Speaker 6: what I personally, you know, when I talked to him
• 58:04
  Speaker 6: about this, when we sort of, they showed us the video,
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: the thing that I always stuck with me was he
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: took his shirt off and sang that song at his,
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: was it brother's wedding? And his sister-in-law is Jewish. So like,
• 58:17
  Speaker 6: you have to be a real asshole to do that
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: and display that tattoo kind of knowing full well and
• 58:22
  Speaker 6: being fully cognizant of what it meant at that wedding.
• 58:24
  Speaker 6: That to me was a convincing explanation, but I've read
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: Andrew's reporting too, that maybe there's some questions about the timeline.
• 58:29
  Speaker 6: I think that's a fully A totally reasonable thing to
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: wonder about. I think the threshold question is, are there
• 58:35
  Speaker 6: other things in this guy's past that suggest he ascribes
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: to Nazi or fascist ideology? And that's where the Reddit
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: archive is actually quite useful.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: Because what it shows is the exact opposite.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: I know. Right?
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: And then that's where I think people kind of refuse
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: to kind of engage with this broader body of factual
• 58:50
  Speaker 6: information that we have when we want to assess what
• 58:54
  Speaker 6: this man believes.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: And I will say, this is why I personally, and
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: people have seen me do this online, but This is
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: why I get more frustrated with people being upset at
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: the tattoo thing more than if you're upset with all
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: the old Reddit stuff and you feel like he's apologized
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: for that, but the apology not accepted, then that's your
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: decision and I understand that. If you're upset about the
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: sexting scandal, then I understand that. But you're right, the
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: tattoo thing, the guy just posted on Reddit, again, like
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: he was never running for office anonymously, has all these
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: things that he said that he's now regretting that are
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: some are offensive whatever else none of them even hinted
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: that he has subscribed to any of this kind of
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: sounds like a commie and everyone's like nazis i saw
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: it when we yeah when we were when you were
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: about to interview him tommy and we saw the video
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: i was like uh what's the problem it's a skull
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: and crossbones now everyone now can be like you didn't
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: know it was a fucking no we knew it was
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: a tone it was a it was a skull and
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: crossbones and i'm sure maybe if andrew's story is correct
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: then at some point someone said to Plattner, hey, that
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: skull and crossbones you've got, do you know that's a
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Nazi tattoo? And he's probably like, well, I've been screened
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: for the army twice and they screened tattoos for this
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: and no one ever said anything. And I have a
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Jewish family, no one ever said anything. So maybe he
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: then Googled it and was like, oh yeah, it is.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: But again, was probably like, well, Or what do I, like,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go cover it up. I'm not. And
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: then he did.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 6: Clearly something changed in their thinking between when I talked
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 6: to him and a couple of days later. Cause when
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 6: I talked to him, he was like, no, I did this.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: This was the deal. It was a stupid tattoo. I
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: was an infantryman.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 6: I was in Croatia. I was a dumb kid, whatever.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 6: And a couple of days later he got it covered up.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: So that something occurred to him that, oh, actually this
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 6: is a real problem that I should fix.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: But this is where it's like people.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: Just sort of call him a Nazi. And it's like,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: and then, then it's like you say, well, hold on
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: a second. Like no one, you don't have to listen
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: to anyone. You don't have to believe anyone. You don't
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: have to take more information in. You don't have to
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: have a nuanced view. You can just call somebody a
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: Nazi if you want. The reason symbols matter is because
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: they're supposed to symbolize something. We battle about symbols on
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: social media because that's what the medium is for. It's
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: for taking little tokens of something and drawing a conclusion
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: about it. It's a very small space, so we do
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: it with symbols. But the symbol has to mean something.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: It has to be a red flag of something. Do
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: you think he's a Nazi? Of course you don't. Of
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: course you don't. You think, maybe you think he's a
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: stupid tattoo. Maybe you think he didn't care enough about
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: it being a Nazi tattoo. That's a fair argument. Maybe
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: he was pointed out and didn't take it seriously enough.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: That's okay. All of it's like, just, but like, can
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: we just have an honest conversation about it rather than like,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: it's a no for me because of the tattoo. It's like, okay,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: you're free to do that. We're just gonna have the
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: rest of the conversation even if you don't wanna have it.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Also, the other thing, and I think ultimately here, this
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: is up to the people of Maine and this is
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: up to the voters of Maine. And if this whole time,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: he was going down and down and down and down
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: in the polls and people, and people were not buying this.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: I remember like, okay, then, then he shouldn't be the nominee.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: And like even, even.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: Mills stayed in the race because she wanted to fight
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: it out.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Well, so even, even Mills now saying like, I'm technically
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: still in the race or whatever. Like that's fine. If
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: she wants to campaign for the last week and, and
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: if she's on the ballot, we're going to be talking
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: about this race on June 9th. If the people of
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Maine now decide that they want Janet Mills instead of
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Graham Platner because of this last scandal and everything else,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: then like, they should do that and then then the
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: national party should get behind janet mills and we'll be
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: off to november probably she.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: Quit right because she saw the writing on the wall
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: because because she because she didn't want to go down
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: in her last race which is fine.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: But if platner gets a ton of votes in the
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: primary and still does really well then like that's what
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: the people of maine wanted and they met him and
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: they didn't you know it wasn't just online discourse like
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: they met him so we gotta we gotta kind of
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: take the lead of the people in.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: Maine yeah so a lot of like a I know
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: we're all used to losing and being fucking losers and
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: we have a loser mentality and like a loser mentality
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: is like, um, I like, this is bad. We have
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: to do something else. I'm scared. I don't like this.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: This is bad. I'm done with this. We can't do this.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: We have to do something else. And it's like, guys, he's,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: if there, if there was someone else running, you could
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: have a debate and maybe vote for somebody else. He's
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: right now the only person that's going to putting up
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: a fight for this race. If you want to say
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: that Janet Mills should get back in, if you want
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: to say that he should drop out, whatever, say what
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: you want. But really what you're saying is I'm worried
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: he's going to lose.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: People are also comparing it to like that. Well, people
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: pushed Biden out when they thought that Biden did something,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: but I'm like, but that was the opposite. Because in
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: that scenario, the whole country didn't want Biden, and Biden
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: and his campaign were saying, yes, yes, you will get
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: him no matter what. This is a flip thing where
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: the voters of Maine are like, no, no, we like him,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: and then other people are worried about it. It's just
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: a different- The Biden thing is so- It could come
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: to that. Again, people can change their minds.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: When nobody was challenging Biden, and Biden was the nominee,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: and it still seemed like there was a chance he
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: could win- That was actually when we would talk about
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: how we were concerned he wasn't addressing his age issues,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: but he's going to be the person. So we've got
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: to do everything we can to help him win because
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: he's the only person that we're going to have. Then
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: he eats shit in that debate. Joe Biden thought he
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: was having a stroke. Didn't tell us at the time.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, babe.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: But then it was now clear that he could not win.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: And so it was time to do something in an
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: emergency because it was pragmatic. It was crazy. It was risky,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: but it was actually pragmatic because it was the only
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: hope of winning the election. Nobody can make that argument
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: right now based on the polls around Graham Platter. They
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: just can't.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: All right, so that's that. I'm sure we won't talk
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: about that anymore between now and November. One more thing
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: we couldn't resist. Over the weekend, the New York Times
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: published a brutal and hilarious report titled, Is J.D. Vance
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: the 2028 Frontrunner? Trump Has Questions. According to the Times,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Trump is, quote, not so sure about Vance. Trump has
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: pointed out that Vance's political success has largely depended on
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Trump's support, that Vance takes too many vacations. that Vance
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: opposed the war in Iran, and that Vance, frankly, sometimes
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: doesn't look or act very presidential. We, of course, didn't
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: want to be unfair to JD, so we thought we'd
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: check the tape of some of the moments in question.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Let's play.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: JD buds into conversations. I want to have that for
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: at least a couple of days, okay, JD? Okay. My
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: wife has the right to skydive.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: But she doesn't jump out of an airplane because she
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: and I have an agreement that she's not going to
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: do that because I don't want my wife.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Jumping out of an airplane. Well, they say it's racist
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: to do anything. I had a diet Mountain Dew yesterday
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: and one today.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: I'm sure they're going to call that racist too.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: But what is this? What is a Zach? You're gonna
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: have to help me out with her name here. I
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: lost my page here.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: All right. Now you can't boo me.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: I'm the vice president of the.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: United States.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. That's so funny. What'd you guys think
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: of the story?
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: I love the story so much.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: J.D.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: Vance is just the gimp from Pulp Fiction.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Trump wheels him out.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 6: That little box humiliates him, puts him back in. The
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 6: details are so funny. Like The man who spends one
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 6: third of his time at Mar-a-Lago thinks JD Vance takes
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 6: too many vacations.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: Delicious.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 6: I love that Trump thought the trophy incident that we
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 6: just watched there twice was as embarrassing as we all did.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 6: And that it just exposed JD as just like a
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 6: phony non-sports fan loser. I love that Susie Wiles took
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 6: away JD's phone privileges and made him stop texting or
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 6: tweeting like he's some, you know, like her teenage son
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 6: got in trouble. That clip of Trump scolding J.D. for
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: talking in meetings and not acting like some like CCP
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 6: commissar is beautiful. Like they set him up. They went
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 6: through like his failure tour. It was the Iran talks,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 6: the Victor Orban campaign stop.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: Indiana.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 6: Indiana Republicans trying to jawbone them into redistricting.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: Failure, failure, failure. He killed Pope Francis. People forget about that.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: But J.D.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 6: Vance was so annoying to Pope Francis. Got us an
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 6: American Pope, though. Yeah, he did get us a better Pope. Which,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 6: who he then- Now he attacks him. Don't be a-
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 6: Be careful.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: Shut up and dribble. Yeah, shut up, Pope.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 6: Ultimately, this is a win-win for Trump, right? Because whoever
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: comes next, if it's J.D. or Rubio or whoever, if
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 6: they win, Trump will say, that's because of me. If
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 6: they lose, he'll say, can't win without Trump, right? So
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 6: he's pumped no matter what, but it is so fun
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 6: watching him just just fuck with these guys. I, the,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 6: one other thing that jumped out to is, uh, the
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 6: article just states it as a fact that I didn't real, didn't,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 6: wouldn't have it occurred to me as a fact that
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 6: Trump is just spending more time with Rubio than he
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 6: is with JD Vance.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: Cause Rubio is, of course, not just secretary of state.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: He is, he's, he's, he's national security advisor and JD
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: Vance can't ride on the plane with Trump because he's
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: vice president. Vice president can't go on air force one
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: with the president. It just doesn't happen. Uh, and so
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: he's a little bit outside of things. I will say
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: that the, like.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: The, J.D. Vance's whole life just having FOMO.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Vance probably has more power in the Trump administration
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: than Kamala Harris did in the Biden administration, I would say.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: He is more actively involved. He's in the room for
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: big decisions.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: They've given him almost as annoying jobs, though.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: For sure, for sure. But I think they actually listen
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: when he says stuff. Not on Iran.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, fair enough. But I mean, even though he was,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: by the end, Vance... was saying he was in favor
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: of doing, if we're going to do it, go big
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: or go home. So even he tried to stay on
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: the right side of that. But anyway, I think like
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: what Trump sees is what we see. It's like Vance
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: can't help but reveal his nature. He can't help it.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: He can't help it. He can't go into a donut
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: shop and be normal. He doesn't know how to talk
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: to people because he's putting on a show. But that
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: like ambitious little nerd, that kind of like, that thing
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: inside of him, it just can't stop from coming out
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: and it makes everyone, including Trump, uncomfortable. And I love it.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: I just want to... Zoom in again on the social
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: media part with my Twitter pen pal, JD Vance. This
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: is what the Times says. In meetings, Mr. Vance frequently
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: scrolls his phone and he uses social media to fight
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: with his critics. The president frequently posts to Truth Social,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: but he does not spend time replying to people online
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: as Mr. Vance does. I just love that they have
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: separated out the kind of poster.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, reply guy.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: Trump's out there. He's posting like 30 times a night
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. Yeah, he's a producer, really.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: He's just putting it out. And Mr. Vance is there
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: just replying to people online. How dare you, sir? Susie
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: Wiles and the other staff have all gotten together. to
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: tell him to have an intervention and say that, That
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: the fighting was beneath his office.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: The idea that anyone in that fucking building is going
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: to tell anyone what's beneath the office. It's insane.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: And yet they do. And yet I believe it.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: I know. I absolutely believe it. But they made him
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: say it was for Lent.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: It's like such a cover story. He's like, I liked
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: it so much, I just kept it off my phone.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: Giving up for Lent.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. I took it off
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: my phone finally.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: You did?
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: This weekend. I'm proud of you. It was the Platner
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: stuff that did it.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that discourse is real. I saw it starting blowing up.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: I was like, I'm going to save my thoughts for Monday.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: I was like, I can't have a Graham Platner thing
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: and then Two fights going on. Dave Portnoy tweets at
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: me and then Neera with like five tweets. I was like,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: I'm done.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: I'm out. It's like the quadrennial tweet review where you
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: can't be fighting. You have to be able to hold
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: one front and also win on another front at the
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: same time.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: I've said this before. I was like, the JD Vance thing. Yeah,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: I'll fight with JD Vance. I'm like, no. What I
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: did this week, it was not good. Okay.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: Not good. Yeah, it's not fun. Nice to admit that.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: When we come back, New Jersey Senator Andy Kim will
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: talk to me about the conditions at an ICE detention
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: center in Newark, where he was also pepper sprayed by
• 1:10:07
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• 1:11:08
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• 1:11:08
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• 1:11:10
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• 1:11:12
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  Speaker 1: free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash crooked. Senator Andy Kim,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: welcome back to Pod Save America.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me back.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: So for anyone who hasn't been following the story, there's
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: a privately run ICE detention center in Newark called Delaney Hall.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: Around 300 people are being held inside. Some have started
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: a hunger strike over the conditions. You tried to visit
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: last Sunday, were turned away, got in on Monday, Memorial Day.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: And then by the end of the day, you got
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: pepper sprayed by federal agents. Can you just walk us
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: through that whole experience and what you saw?
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for shining a light on this
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: because this is a problem not just for us in
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: New Jersey, but all over this country. This is a
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: facility that has about 800 right now, several hundred of
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: them participating in the hunger strike and the broader protests.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: But I was able to go there a couple times
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: and look, some of the things that I've heard most recently,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: these are people that For instance, a man telling me
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: that he's got stage three lung cancer, doesn't want to
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: be there anymore, willing to go back to his home country,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: but not being allowed to do so, not getting the
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: medical care that he needs. There's a pregnant woman there
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: telling me that she's not getting the medical care that
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: she needs as she's gearing up to have a baby.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: She's literally looking me in the eye and she's saying,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: do I need to be prepared to have a baby
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: here in Delaney Hall? She has no movement on her case.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: no understanding what's happened next on the court. The woman
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: that was translating this for me turned out to be
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: an 18-year-old high school senior who's in there by herself.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: I actually talked to her mom outside of Delaney Hall,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: and she's worried sick. You can imagine having your daughter,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: an 18-year-old high school senior, in a detention facility by herself.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: This is a young woman who was telling me all
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: she wanted to do is go to the prom and
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: graduate from high school this year. And so when Trump's
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: telling you these are the worst of the worst, telling
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: you that he's going after the violent criminals, I wanted
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: the people across this country to just hear what I'm
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: hearing inside that facility. And sure, they're complaining and raising
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: the concerns about the medical care or the lack of
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: medical care, about the horrible– problems with what they're having
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: with food. Like one man ran up to me with
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: a milk carton and showed me what was inside, and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: it was just congealed solid on the inside. I mean,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: it's disgusting. And, you know, they're raising concerns about the
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: extreme heat that they're feeling, and I felt it too
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: as I'm sweating there in their room, and it wasn't
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: even a particularly hot day. But what they were also
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: flagging is just like the lack of any movement on
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: their cases. I mean, some of them have been there
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: for eight months, some of them have been there for
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: over a year. not having any movement forward in any
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: credible way. One man ran to the hallway and grabbed
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: a piece of paper off the bulletin board and showed
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: it to me. And it showed me that on one day,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: when the courts came back into session after the Memorial
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Day weekend, on one day, on that Tuesday, this one
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: judge had 74 cases before her. in, you know, in
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: just one day. And like, you know, like I did
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: the back of the napkin math, that's like about five
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: minutes per case. I mean, it's a farce of a
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: legal process that's just, you know, keeping them there while,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: you know, while these conditions are terrible, not moving anything forward.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: And who's paying the bill? It's us. It's the taxpayer
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: dollars that are paying, you know, geo group, you know,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: millions and millions of dollars to run these facilities. So that's,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: you know, that's, that's at least what I saw inside.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: First of all, that is just horrific. And, um, it
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: seems like the delay in hearing these cases is both
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: a function of how many people, um, they are detaining, um,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: clearly not the worst of the worst, but a whole
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: bunch of other, um, immigrants, some of whom I imagine
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: could be here legally. as well as just the sort
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: of failure to properly resource the immigration courts with enough
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: judges and to properly resource these facilities. Is that what
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: you took away from it as well?
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like, look, you know, some of
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: this is absolutely just a lack of investment. I mean, like,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: as they're surging up, ICE and CBP through the reconciliation bill.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: And I'm down here at the Capitol now because they're
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: about to try to push another $ 60, $ 70 billion towards
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: the enforcement side. But where's the energy towards the courts?
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: We already had millions of cases of backlog that was
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: going to take a decade or so just to be
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: able to get through. We all know that we need
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: to invest in the courts, that we can have a
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: judicial process that can hopefully take on these cases in
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: a matter of days and weeks rather than years or
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: even longer. And that should, you know, that backlog is
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: what is putting so much strain on our system and
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: it's costing us so much. So that's part of it.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: But like, look, you can't help but think through, I mean,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: like this is GeoGroup, you know, for those that don't,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: may not be following this, GeoGroup's a for-profit company that
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: runs this facility, runs 19 other facilities, about 20 facilities
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: around this country in charge of detaining over 20,000 people
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: for ICE. This is a group that is just making
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: money off of this all. They're just printing money off
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: of this all. They're getting paid by the bed, by
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: the day. So they're not certainly complaining about this process.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: And you can't help but think, look, when Tom Holman
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: comes from GeoGroup into the White House, they run this process.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: When they just chose, actually, today's the first day of
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: the new head of ICE that they just picked. And
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: it came, again, straight from GeoGroup. You can't help but
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: think this revolving door of just profiting off of this
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: human misery. You can't help but think this is the point,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: that they are trying to make things so bad for
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: the detainees there that detainees just give up and sign
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: whatever papers that they want or whatnot. And I felt
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: it there. There was just so little accountability. As you said,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: I tried to get into the facility. on Monday, early
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: in the day, I tried to get him. I actually
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: even let them know ahead of time and got approval
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: to be able to go into the facility that day.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: I show up at the gates, and the geo group
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: guards are just like, nope. You're not allowed in.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: And.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: And you're like, I'm a U.S. senator and I've had
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: authorization to do this.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: I have authorization by law as well as the permission
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: to come. I literally had to call Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: I talked to him and told him, like, let me inside. Like,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: I have a right to be inside. And so finally
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: they let me inside and I go inside and I
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: talked to the head of geo group in the facility.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: I told him, by the way, your guards just told
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: me that I can't come inside. And he just looked
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: at me. He said, you're a liar. He just literally,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: to my face, called me a liar. I mean, I
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: give you that not because it was insulting to me,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: but I give you that because I want you to
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: understand the kinds of dynamics that there are. That situation
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: was very indicative to me of the lack of... a
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: lack of care about any accountability or transparency. They don't feel,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: the Geo Group doesn't feel beholden to the American people,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: certainly doesn't feel beholden to Congress, and that is because
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: of just this dynamic between ICE and groups like GeoGroup
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: and CoreCivic and these other companies, they're just in a
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: world and a league of their own. They're just operating
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: off on their own. And because Speaker Johnson and others
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: are just giving them that kind of carte blanche. So
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: they were just in some world of their own and
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: feel nothing. And then when I came out from that
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: facility and was alerted by my team and the people
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: on the ground that there was now like a standoff
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: of people outside. So not only is there chaos inside
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: Delaney Hall, but now I come out and emerge outside
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: and see that there's a standoff between ICE agents. You know,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: they have a row of ICE agents that are armed.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: They have an armored vehicle. And they're, you know, just
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: in a standoff with the protesters there. I mean, look,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: you know, like my immediate concern was like, This cannot
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: become Minnesota. We saw what happened to Rene Good and
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: Alex Preti. I was terrified that we're going to see
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: that type of violence and potentially bloodshed in the streets.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: So I was trying to figure out, is there any
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: way to be able to off-ramp this? Is there any
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: way we can be able to lower the temperature? And
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: I was talking to the head of ICE outside there,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: and at some point he just told me, like, look,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: we're going to just drive these vehicles, our vehicles out.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: And I looked across the field there and I said, like,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: you cannot just simply plow your vehicles through a crowd
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: of civilians. Like, you have to try to figure out,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: you know, how we can try to do this without
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: the violence. And look, I was trying to see if
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: there's any arrangement, but again, it shouldn't be just on me.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: When it comes to de-escalation, what role are their officers
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: supposed to play? And that's what I think was so alarming, John,
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: is there was just at some point just a feeling
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: of inevitable violence. And it was just so jarring to me.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: The ease with which ICE just... went out and drove
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: their vehicles literally through a crowd, just not even putting
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: effort to try to avoid that circumstance. It shouldn't be
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: that easy to have violence in the streets of America.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: It shouldn't be that easy for federal agents that are
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: supposed to swear the same oath that I swear about
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: protecting and defending the Constitution and supporting the American people.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: to find themselves in a circumstance. So it's just like,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: you know, I saw this unfold and immediately, you know,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: my instinct was to run, run into it and try
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: to put myself between the ice agents and the crowd.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: I was trying to keep that physical separation because that
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: is where we saw so much of the, of the
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: violence escalate in Minnesota. If I could at least keep
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: them physically separated, you know, perhaps we could avoid the worst, but,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: It was so jarring. It was really scary just to
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: see that type of violence in my state, frankly, anywhere
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: in the country. And to know that this is still,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: could very well be a problem that we see continue
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: in my state and elsewhere.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: And so because you put your body in between the
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: protesters and the ICE agents, the federal agents, eventually they
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: started shooting pepper balls. I believe that there was one
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: that struck by your feet and you inhaled it as well.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: Secretary Mullen and DHS are saying just a number of
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: things that don't seem to be true and certainly are
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: not your account, that there is no hunger strike, that
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: the complaints are about certain inmates not getting, or certain
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: people that are being held by the facility, not getting
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: their ethnic food of choice, that the conditions aren't bad,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: that nobody was directly struck by pepper balls, which is
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: about you. What do you make of just what they're
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: saying about all of this?
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, just again, I saw what I saw.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: I talked to the people. There is a hunger strike
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: going on inside and a larger protest. And there are
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: certainly people that are not getting basic care. Again, they're
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: not asking for the moon. They're asking for just a
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: certain baseline of human dignity, especially as we're, again, keeping
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: them there for indefinite amounts of time. I mean, I
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: was in the medical isolation area, and there was a
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: man there in a wheelchair. He hadn't left that room
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: in four months. Because that facility is just not meant
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: to handle someone with a wheelchair. So they're like, you're
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: stuck in this room now. And not able to go
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: and leave. He was like, can I at least be
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: at a hospital? And frankly, look, there was actually someone
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: who was sent to a hospital, a woman that was
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: sent to a hospital for quite a number of days.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: By the time I got there, it was like day
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: 12 or 14. The family didn't even know where this
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: woman was. Because ICE wouldn't tell her what hospital that
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: she was at because of security concerns. So you can't
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: tell them which hospital you're at. They couldn't tell them
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: the nature of the severity of the problem that she
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: had to be at a hospital. I mean, she was
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: there for like 12 to 14 days. That's a significant
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: amount of time in a hospital. And the family has
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: no idea. They can't visit them. And so I asked,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: what can the family do to learn about this? And literally,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: it breaks my brain thinking about this. ICE looked me
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: in the eye and said, oh, the family can FOIA
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: this information. Just thinking to myself, what? Their family member
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: could be in some life-threatening situation at a hospital and
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: you want them to FOIA this information about their loved one?
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: That's just the craziness of it. When Secretary Mullen or
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: others say this, they're just in damage control mode. They
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: saw what happened in Minnesota when the American people actually
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: saw what was happening. And the American people, they're smart
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: about this. They understand that there are just lines that
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: should not be crossed. And whether that's for American citizens
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: or anybody in this country. And frankly, look, a lot
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: of the people I met with at Delaney Hall, they
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: are married to American citizens and parents of kids that
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: are American citizens. That's what I think they're afraid of.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: They're afraid that the American people will understand and learn
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: the truth about what is happening in our name, with
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: our money, but without our say and without our approval.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: And that's just, you know, that's just wrong. And that's
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: what needs to be changed here. You know, we have
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: the capacity to do so. It's just a matter of
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: political will that this administration refuses to put towards this.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: I know that Governor Sherrill sent in state police to
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: help set up protest zones and sort of asked demonstrators
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: to lower the temperature. Some of the activists outside Delaney
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: heard that as her policing them instead of the feds.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: Where do you come down on some of the tension
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: between trying to conduct oversight, give people a safe space
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: to protest while also trying to maintain safety in the
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: general area?
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, first of all, look, I mean, this
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: is chaos that is inherited from ICE. that they have
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: been fomenting. Look, they've been threatening to bring many, many
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: more ICE agents to New Jersey, basically threatening a surge
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: similar to Minnesota. So I understand, look, we're going to
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: try to avoid that scenario. But look, there are legitimate
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: concerns at Delaney Hall. And as a result, there are
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: legitimate reasons to be able to protest that. And I
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: want to make sure that we are trying to address that,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: like we are allowing that kind of space. I get it.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: We can't have this unrest continue on. In fact, I'm
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: hearing it from the families of the detainees, saying that
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: it's been preventing them from being able to visit their
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: loved ones, that attorneys are not able to get access
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: because some of the roads have been shut down and
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: other things. So look, we want to make sure we're
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: not getting in the way and losing sight of what
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: we're really trying to address, which is the detainees and
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: their conditions. But there's got to be a way that
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: we can do this while we are also making sure
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: that people have the rights afforded to them in the Constitution,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: especially for free speech. So I'm trying to work on this,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: trying to address this. I talked with not only the
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: governor's team, but also Mayor Baraka from Newark to try
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: to think through what other steps, what other ways can
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: we do this that isn't going to just further inflame
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: you know, what is already this horrible situation that ICE has,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: you know, thrown our state into. But, you know, it
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: is difficult, but I'm trying my best to be able
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: to push forward in a way that is going to
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: make sure that, again, we're keeping the needs and the
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: plight of the detainees front and center here.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: As you mentioned, you know, one opportunity to sort of
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: make some changes is you know the senate's scheduled to
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: consider this 72 billion dollar budget bill funding for ice
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: uh that would fund ice through the end of trump's
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: term obviously it doesn't seem like democrats have the votes
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: to stop it in the senate because it's it would
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: only require 51 votes but are you um and or
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: other Democrats planning to offer any amendments that you think
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: might actually be able to pass with some Republican support
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: that might rein in some of the abuses we're talking about, or,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: you know, make any kind of corrections to some of
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: the things that you saw?
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: Well, look, here's what I lay out for you. I mean,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: there are a whole slew of problems that are facing Delaney.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: And I want people to know, like, It's not that Delaney,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: Delaney is not some bad apple that is just, you know,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: we just have to address that. This is a system-wide
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: failure and problem. As I said, you know, GeoGroup's got
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: 19 other facilities, you know, CoreCivic and other, I mean, like,
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: and then now, you know, ICE is trying to build
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: these warehouse detention facilities and hopefully we can push back
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: and stop this. But there's a broader problem, systemic, not
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: just in the culture, but just in the broader process.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: And that's what I'm trying to expose. So there's three
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: things in particular I'm trying to push towards, both through
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: the legislation as through other means. First, let's surge some
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: medical support to Delaney and these other facilities. There are
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: clearly people who are not getting the care that they need.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: And Secretary Mullen can dispute that. But again, it's not
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: what I'm hearing. It's not what I'm seeing. And I
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: just don't see why anyone's going to stand in the
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: way and say, look, let's just try to see. I mean,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: the DHS has a medical unit. We can be able
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: to surge up there in that kind of capacity right away.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: Right now, they have one full-time doctor for about 800 detainees.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: Many of them have significant medical concerns. So that's what
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to do initially. Let's surge up there. Let's
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: have You know, number two, like, let's have like a
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: real investigation into these different claims that are about there,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: whether it's about the food or the other conditions. And
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: number three, the detainees were very clear with me that
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: it's not just about the conditions. It's just it's about
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: having that movement forward on their cases. So I'm trying to, again,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: take what I'm hearing and figure out how to put
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: it in action. You know, I've been talking to Secretary
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: Mullen this week, telling him what I'm hearing on the ground.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: trying to see what we can move forward because they
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: can do this on their own if they wanted to
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: right now, you know, they, they could demand, you know,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: additional doctors, they could demand, you know, efforts to be
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: able to surge this. And that's what I hope people understand.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: Like geo group got a nearly billion dollar contract for
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: Delaney hall. So they could hire more doctors tomorrow today,
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: but that's going to be less profit for them, right?
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: Like if they could, They could have better quality food
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: or fix the extreme heat that I'm hearing. But then again,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: that's cutting into their profits, right? So we can change that.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: So I have been and will continue to be pushing
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: for amendments along these lines of just saying, like, let's
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: have a baseline of medical resources available. I hope we
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: can all agree that regardless of the circumstances that someone's
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: in there, like we want to make sure that they're
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: getting some semblance of medical care for key needs. I'm
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: trying to push forward on something that is about de-escalation trade.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: I literally submitted that amendment before I even went back
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: to Delaney Hall about how we can ensure that there's
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: de-escalation trading for ICE and CBP after what we saw
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: in Minnesota. And every single Republican on the Homeland Security
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: Committee voted against my amendment. And then I went back
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: to Delaney and saw and experienced what I did. So
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: I'm pushing for it. But again, this is something where
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: we really need the American people to kind of come
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: behind us on this. The only times we've seen this
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: administration back down or pull back has been when there's
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: wide public outrage. We saw that with Minnesota. We see
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: that actually just today. It looks like we're seeing it
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: when the Trump administration seems to be backing off that $ 1. 8
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: billion slush fund for January 6th rioters. I hope that's
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: true that they're backing off of that. But like, you know,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: that's what we really need is for us to say, like,
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: you know, this cannot be what is happening in our
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: country and to be able to try to stop it.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: And I know, you know, reconciliation and voter ramas in
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: the Senate, this is not like, must watch TV. Like,
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: this is not something that's gonna necessarily like, have people
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: tuning in at whatever god-awful hour in the middle of
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: the night that the Republicans force us to vote on these.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: But I ask people, please, for my state, for our country,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: please tune in to what is happening. Because what they're
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: trying to do is give upwards of $ 70 billion more
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: for ICE and CBP. Not only is there no reforms
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: and accountability in there, like what Americans have been demanding
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: since Minnesota, but there's not a dollar in there for
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: you to help you with your health care. There's not
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: a dollar in there for you to help you with
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: your groceries or for the rising gas prices. There's nothing
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: in it for you. It's just more money that's going
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: straight into geogroup's pockets to just continue this lawlessness that
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: we see. This cannot stand, and this is something that
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: we have to do everything we can to let people
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: know and try to push back against this in Congress.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: Senator, I know you have to run because you're working
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: on this issue, but I just wanted to say thank
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: you for joining us and thank you for everything you're
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: doing to highlight this issue, including literally putting your body
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: in the way at Delaney's. So please let us know
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: how we can help, and thank you again.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much for shining a light on this.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: It's so important.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Andy Kim for coming on. Alex Wagner and
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: I will be back with a new show on Friday.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our show
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: Farrah Safari, with Reed Gerlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill.
• 1:35:13
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• 1:35:16
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• 1:35:19
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• 1:35:21
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