Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 660: Foundations - How Avoiding Whitetail Trends Will Make You More Successful

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Ep. 660: Foundations - How Avoiding Whitetail Trends Will Make You More Successful · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundation's podcast, Your guide
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: to the fundamentals of better deer hunting. Present it by
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: First Light, creating proven, versatile hunting apparel for the stand,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: saddle or blind. First Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer, and
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: now your host Tony Peterson.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Wire to Hunt Foundation's podcast.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Tony Peterson, and today I'm going to
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: talk about the hunting trends that come and go and
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: how avoiding now is offered the best strategy. It's a
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: little more Dear. All those fine folks out there who
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: hate me for doing a job related to wild game
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: often argue that myself and others like me, we're the
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: worst things to happen to hunting. We commoditize the passion
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and a public resource. Fair enough, I get that, but
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I also wonder why those same people folks because solely
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: on social media influencers. But I don't know outfitters, not
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: the state game agencies who view hunters, especially non resident hunters,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: as cash cows, not the media and the marketing companies
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: pulling the strings behind the hunting industry. Or hell, I
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: don't know the manufacturers themselves. You know those companies that
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: make the gear you buy and who want your money,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: and they figure out how to make you aware of
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: their products so you do buy them. It's really an
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: old problem viewed in new light. But it also follows
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: something that this podcast is about trends. There are trends
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: in hunting that just come and go, and I'm sure
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: there will be a new enemy at some point. I'm
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: sure too that what we think is the answer to
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: our deer hunting problems now will be something different in
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: the future. And that's what I'm going to talk about,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: because conditioning yourself to be a deer contrary and allows
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: you to start making decisions that will differ from your competition,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: and in most cases, this is the best way to
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: find the success that eludes most whitetail hunters. People are
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: weird at our most fundamental level. We are just kind
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: of like hairless monkeys, trying desperately to stay in our
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: little tribes. You know. That might be a political or
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: religious tribe. It might be a click at work or
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: a friend group. It might be in hunting where you
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: and your buddies only take self made traditional bows to
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the woods, and you look at anyone who uses a compound, or,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: worse yet, a crossbow, the way I might look at
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: the sole of my shoe after stepping in a pile
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: of dog shit. It's in our nature to group up
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: with like minded individuals want to fit in. It wasn't
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: that long ago in our history where being a part
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: of a group meant you had the best chance of survival,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: and if you got booted out for some social faux pa,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: you were on your own and very likely to die.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: We still feel this. It's gene deep, and it's one
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: of the reasons that the low owners in our society
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: can be so dangerous. We crave kinship and companionship, and
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: we despise being ostracized and treating like an other whatever
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: that means. This need to belong, coupled with the fear
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: of being booted, it leads us to do kind of
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: weird stuff. Look at any group you want, really, you'll
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: see identifiers that people used to signal hey, I'm just
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: like you, buddy. This might be the cultivated look of
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: a motorcycle gang. It might be sports fans of a
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: specific team. Hell, it might be the dumbass boys in
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: my daughter's grade who all of a sudden decided mullets
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: were cool again, and that for some reason, wearing tights
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: undershorts is the hottest fashion trend of the century, and
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: to be fair, the girls in their grade aren't spared
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: from that stuff either. I recently noticed that one of
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: my daughters was adamant about wearing one of those hairclip
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: things that your mom used to wear that looks kind
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: of like a spider, some kind of multi legged insect
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: if you see it on the floor or the kitchen counter.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I thought, man, she's really kicking at old score with
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: this look, until I showed up to coach softball and
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: realized that a lot of the girls her age are
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: rocking those bad boys. What goes around comes around and
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the tool song Enema Maynard sings a little about this,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: and while I can't repeat the line, he does mention
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: that he thinks anything retro is stupid. I agree, probably
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: because I'm getting old and krabby, But I also think
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: it's mostly harmless. I mean, who cares if an eleven
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: year old boy wants a mullet or an eleven year
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: old girl wants to put a grammar level hair accessory
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: in When it comes to hunting, the trends are mostly
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: harmless too, at least when you view them from thirty
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: thousand feet, but at an individual level they might actually
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: not be so harmless. Let's take saddle hunting as an example.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: This should work for a couple of reasons. First off,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: saddle hunting is actually an old method. Saddles first got
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: kind of popular over twenty years ago, but the options
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: on the market they weren't that great. Still, there were
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: several companies making them, and some guys found a way
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: to put them to good use. They never really caught
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: on though in a I don't know a mainstream way, however.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: But fast forward to this more recent decade and saddle
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: hunting has come on real strong. This isn't a bad
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: thing in and of itself. Hell, last year I killed
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: a bull elk and my biggest buck of the year
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: from a saddle. Now I'm far from anti saddle. I
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: think the options today we have a pretty sweet and
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: I think that if you're into mobile hunting, it's one
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: hell of a good way to go about things. But
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: it's also totally unnecessary for a lot of hunters if
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: you're dead set on hunting the same private forty acres
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: until you qualify for Social Security, you might not need
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: a saddle. You can set up spots with more comfortable
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: options well in advance of the season. You don't need
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: to put on a camo diaper and a hang sticks
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: for every set. You might also just not like hunting
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: out of a saddle. For whatever reason, it might not
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: be for you. Maybe you're more of a ground hunter
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: or a ladder stand hunter. Maybe that's something worth figuring
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: out before you jump into the saddle bandwagon. The public
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: land hunting thing is another example. This trend sort of
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: feels like it's dying now, probably because it has been
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: beat to death for a while. You couldn't show your
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: face at the local pro shop if you hunted private land,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: and the shame you felt was palpable. It was also stupid.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: And I say this as someone who has a lot
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: of pride in his public land skills and as someone
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: who has pushed that narrative for a long time when
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I was a younger man trying to make a name
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: for myself as a writer. This trend, you know, the
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: public land one, has been a weird one. You should
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: hunt where you can and where you want to. If
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: you have access to private ground haunt that if you
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: want to explore public go ahead. If you want to
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: shoot a four hundred grain arrow that will blow through
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: the biggest whitetail with ease, provided you can shoot it
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: where it should go, do that. You don't need a
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: kate buffalo arrow to kill white tails. If you want
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: to beef up your archery amo and quite your bow down,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: go for it. Just understand why you're doing it, what
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: you're giving up, what you're gaining. Maybe it's the right
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: move for you, maybe it isn't. The thing about trends
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: and hunting is that, well, they are trends and by
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: the very definition they're going to be popular and at
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: the forefront of our minds till they're not. They'll be
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: adopted by many people. And that means you have an
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: opportunity you as an individual. For some things, maybe you
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: want to catch the same wave as everyone else. For others,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: maybe you want to do something totally different. Let me
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: give you an example from my recent hunting life. Back
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: in May, I drove down to the heart of Nebraska
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: to chase turkeys with Sam Soholt. We hunted sand hill birds.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: And what that means is if you don't know. Anyway,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: we had a lot of room to roam, and we
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: were hunting where there was really nothing specific to keep
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: the birds in one spot. There's no dreamy picked cornfields
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: for the birds to end up in on each day
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: where they would feed, no multi generational roots, because they
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: can roost just about anywhere down there, and when the
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: weather is nice they do. There's not much of a
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: pattern to those birds because they live in a mono
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: habitat where you know, this thousand acres is exactly like
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: the next thousand acres. It felt like hunting big woods
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: bucks honestly, or hunting elk in Colorado in an over
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: the counter unit. They are where you find them today
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: and they're probably not going to be there tomorrow. Those
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: hybrid birds we were hunting down there, they also happen
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: to live in a place where they are highly stockable.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: The sand hills are this fascinating type of habitat with
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: rolling grassy hills. You know, often ridge after ridge after ridge,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: all more or less running in the same direction, and
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: between those ridges are lush meadows, so it goes meadow ridge,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: meadow ridge, meadow ridge, and on, and in between those
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: ridges are scattered pine trees, you know, cedars, the kind
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: that offer you really good cover for stalking. They're all
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: over the countryside, and the birds in the meadows pretty visible,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: the birds on the ridges somewhat visible, and the birds
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: that gobble a decent amount are awful easy to pinpoint
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: in that country. The season is long down there, and
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: when there is an option to run down a bird
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: and set up close or just bush whack it, that's
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: what most folks do. There aren't a lot of pop
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: up blinds sold in that part of the state, is
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: my guess. Decoy sales are probably pretty low too. Locator calls,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, probably make up a bulk of
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: the turkey sales down there. Now. The problem with this
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: is the popular way to do it results in a
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: lot of dead birds, but also a lot of survivors
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: who are real hesitant to announce their presence. They're also
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: real hesitant to loaf away in the meadows, at least
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: on the public dirt weaver hunting hunting them like the
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: average hunter, where the goal is to cover ground until
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: you hear see one, is a strategy that really dies
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: on the vine as the weeks pass. A better bet.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: We found out a little bit too late on our
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: hunt was to set up in the cover, use good decoys,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: pay attention, and be patient. Those birds would come in,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: and they'd come in fast and usually quietly. It's a
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: different kind of hunt. Now, if you think deer hunting
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: doesn't follow the same trajectory, think again. I've hunted places
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: where the deer absolutely know that they are most likely
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: to get shot by some cameo clad dude up in
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: a tree. They look up a lot, and they don't
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: put up with much in the way of poor stand setups.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I've also hunted deer, primarily out west, who simply haven't
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: caught onto the program yet. I've killed bucks out there
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: from six feet up that never once looked at me,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: even when I was in a tree that was barely
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: big enough to hold a pine squirrel. It doesn't matter
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: what style of stand or saddle you use. If you're
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: hunting where the deer look up a lot, you might
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: be better off bucking the train and figuring out how
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: to kill them from the ground. You might also notice
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: that every hunting show you watch has a host who
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: will happily rattle, grunt, snort, wheeze at the bucks they
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: see and often when they don't see a buck, just
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: to get something to happen. And you might think, well,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna call my butt off when I get into
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: the woods because it sure looks like it works. But
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: then you hike out to your favorite spot on public
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: land and you rattle just like everyone else, and guess what,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: very few booners come running into pose up at twenty yards.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: I know it's shocking. The trends are everywhere, and they
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: mostly aren't your friend. Now. I know that I've often
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: said you need to find your own path out there,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: which is kind of really what this episode is all about,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and I believe it. But I also think that harboring
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: a deep need to be a hunting contrarian is super important,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: particularly if you happen to hunt pressure ground. This is
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: because what most people do on any given hunt doesn't
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: work very well. The styles, the strategies, and tactics that
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: most hunters attempt just aren't very effective. The big buck
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: tricks that you can read about or watch tutorials on
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: YouTube about mostly don't work. Most of the stuff people
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: do to try to kill deer and especially big bucks,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: almost never ever works. How's that for depressing? You have
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: to acknowledge this, and then you have to figure out
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: what does work for you and how you can lean
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: into whatever that is to further increase your odds. It
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: also pays to learn how to hunt other stuff and
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: broaden your horizons. The way to become a good hunter
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: is to learn about what the deer do, and not
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: learn what other people think the deer do or what
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: other people say deer do. The real path is to
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: learn that stuff for yourself, to figure out that yes,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: you probably should hunt mornings in the early season, or no,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: you probably shouldn't use a buck decoy on public land
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: on November seventh, because the deer have been hunted super
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: hard every day and they aren't likely to see your
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: fake buckster and walk in sideways with their eyes rolled
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: and their fists baled up, all ready to throw down.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: This is what I'm going to talk about in the
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: entire next year on the podcast. If I'm being honest,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: It's been two full years of white tail hunting, and
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I'm ready to talk about other stuff. I want to
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: talk about Western hunting and how it applies to white tails.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about spot and stock hunting. I
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: want to talk about why pheasant hunting will make you
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: a better deer hunter, and why it's just worth to
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: go do these things. Maybe how learning to call a
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: turkey will help you call on elk, and how learning
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: to be patient for one critter will help you be
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: patient for all critters. Now, I'm not going to abandon
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: the white tail entirely, trust me, so don't bail yet.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: But instead, the next year of this podcast is going
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: to be about hunting other stuff in hunting in ways
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: that aren't all that common in the deer woods. But
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: everything we do with our gear and our hunts is
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: tethered to the whitetail in some way. The connections might
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: not make sense on the surface, but my job is
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: to make sure they get there. I think the strategy
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: of becoming a hunting jack of all trades is better
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: than trying to become a master of one. I know
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: that's probably counterintuitive to a lot of folks, but I
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: believe it's a viable path to success in the outdoors,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: and I believe it's going to become more viable as
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: the years pass and it becomes tougher to do just
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: any old hunt. We might set our sights on the
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: availability of tags and hunting opportunities is tightening up. You
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: might not get to hunt elk, but you might get
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: a chance to hunt antelope. You might lose your favorite
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: deer property to some city slicker with more money than
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: hunting skill, and you might find yourself tramping around on
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: ground that anyone can tromp around on. You might not
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: get permission to hunt deer, but maybe you'll get small
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: game permission somewhere. Change is inevitable, and I think we
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: are entering a world of white tails and hunting in general,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: where if you're not trying to get better, you better
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: have some real disposable income. I know that might sound depressing,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: and honestly, it kind of is, but it's also sort
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: of a cosmic call to action from Mother Nature herself.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Even though we want hunts to happen the way we
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: want them to happen, it rarely works that way for
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: most of us. And even though we might not be
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: interested in grouse hunting or bear hunting or whatever they
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: might be, the opportunities we have to spend time in
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: the woods when we aren't in a tree stand targeting deer,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: or when for whatever reason we just can't get into
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: a tree stand to target deer. I also plan on
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: covering concepts that are not directly tied to white tails,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: but do affect our white tail hunts. You know how
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: to use your gear to the fullest ability. Why understanding
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: your own shortcomings is important. How pressure on public land
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: roosters or maybe public land meal deer is in a
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: hell of a lot different from pressure on public land
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: white tails. And if you can figure out one, you
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: can figure out all of them. You know, stuff like that,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: So please stick with me as we shift gears in
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: the podcast for the next year and dive into a
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: deeper pool of general hunting, one that will always revolve
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: around the white tails, even if the orbit isn't quite
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: as tight as it used to be. I think you'll
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: find there's plenty to think about and plenty to consider
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: if you want to become a better hunter overall, a
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: better woodsman or woodswoman. Is that a thing has to
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: be anyway. Next week I plan to start this process
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: and talk a little bit about spotting and stalking and
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: how much fun it is, how it ties to white tails,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: and how if you have any inkling at all, you
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: should probably try to find a spot in stock hunt
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: before it's too late. And lastly, I just want to
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: say thanks again for your support. This weird little podcast
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: is a lot of fun to produce, and I hope
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: you keep getting something from it because that means a
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: lot to me, just as much as your overall support
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: has over the last few years. That's it. I'm Tony Peterson.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: This has been the Wire to Hunt Foundation's podcast, which
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: is brought to you by furs As. I always thank
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: you so much for your support. And if you want
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: more white tail content or more hunting content, maybe just
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: want to watch a cool series like our new buck
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Truck series out there, head on over to them meeteater
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: dot com and you're gonna see all kinds of articles
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: and videos and links to podcasts and everything. Basically, if
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: you want to get a hunting fix, that's where you
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: need to go.