Latest / The Follow-On / Michael Vaughan runs the ruler over some of the great Ashes moments and touches on the key themes of the summer to come.

Transcript

Michael Vaughan runs the ruler over some of the great Ashes moments and touches on the key themes of the summer to come. · The Follow-On

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to another episode of Fox Crickets Podcast.
0:03
Speaker 1: The follow on. My name is Courtney Welsh's senior reporter
0:06
Speaker 1: at Fox Sports Australia, delighted to be joined by Michael Vaughan,
0:10
Speaker 1: the former England captain and a long time favorite of Fox,
0:14
Speaker 1: member of the family for many years. Ahead of the Ashes,
0:17
Speaker 1: which shapes us an enthralling series to come.
0:19
Speaker 2: How are you, Michael, Yeah, I'm great.
0:22
Speaker 3: You know, I've been coming to Australia for a number
0:24
Speaker 3: of years and been here for many Ashley series, but
0:28
Speaker 3: I've never known a build up like this one. I'm
0:30
Speaker 3: here a bit earlier, so I'm getting to get a
0:32
Speaker 3: feel for everything that's happening, both on an Australian sense
0:36
Speaker 3: and obviously with England arriving in Perth in the last
0:39
Speaker 3: few days from an England sense. But you always know
0:42
Speaker 3: the ashes of around when cricket's on the front pages.
0:46
Speaker 1: I was going to say, we talk about the front
0:47
Speaker 1: pages and it's a front page today in Western Australia
0:50
Speaker 1: which you may not have come across. It's Joe Route
0:53
Speaker 1: arriving and they've rolled through his numbers. I think that
0:55
Speaker 1: they did the same thing over there for ben stakes
0:58
Speaker 1: and from memory you probably would have done it pre
1:00
Speaker 1: set well a pre eshes pepsim perth yourself going back
1:03
Speaker 1: in five certainly I know they didn't know seven. So
1:07
Speaker 1: not unfamiliar territory for the English players to arrive. And
1:10
Speaker 1: the Copper I suppose an evil when they're giving the
1:13
Speaker 1: when they landed per the airport.
1:15
Speaker 3: Well, the problem with that is the modern person hasn't
1:19
Speaker 3: got a clue what paper is. They may have seen it,
1:24
Speaker 3: but they don't really look at papers these days. It's
1:26
Speaker 3: all part of being an England player arriving down under.
1:30
Speaker 3: You know that you're going to copy it, you know
1:31
Speaker 3: you're going to have a headline or two. You know
1:33
Speaker 3: they're going to follow you. And I guess that's going
1:35
Speaker 3: to be the skill set of the England players over
1:37
Speaker 3: the next week or So's to make sure there's no controversy.
1:41
Speaker 3: They can't let their guards slip off the field. They've
1:44
Speaker 3: got to make sure that you know, they practice hard,
1:47
Speaker 3: they prepare well for the twenty first of November, and
1:50
Speaker 3: that they can shut have quite a few editors by
1:53
Speaker 3: just playing good cricket and winning. That's the only thing
1:55
Speaker 3: you can concentrate on as an England player down here
1:58
Speaker 3: is playing well, doing well, getting hundreds again, a few wickets,
2:01
Speaker 3: taking a few catches. If you do that, you end
2:03
Speaker 3: up winning a few games and the headlines will soon change.
2:09
Speaker 1: Just in terms of this podcast, slightly un Orthodox, we're
2:11
Speaker 1: going to talk about the Eshes. Well, we'll touch on it.
2:13
Speaker 1: A couple of questions about your own series in two
2:15
Speaker 1: thousand and five, which is considered one of the great ones.
2:18
Speaker 1: A couple of great moments from Esh's history with your
2:21
Speaker 1: old mate Shane warn and a couple of old opponents
2:24
Speaker 1: Steve war I think your time in the commentary box
2:27
Speaker 1: you've seen a lot in terms of this great rivalry
2:30
Speaker 1: between Australia and England over the over your career.
2:33
Speaker 2: I guess yeah.
2:35
Speaker 3: I mean you mentioned some moments there. I mean I
2:37
Speaker 3: was there for Scotty Berland six or seven at the
2:40
Speaker 3: g with Howie saying build him a statue. I was
2:44
Speaker 3: at silly point for Steve Wall when he got one
2:46
Speaker 3: hundred off the last ball of that second day in
2:48
Speaker 3: two thousand and three.
2:51
Speaker 2: Shane Warner. I was in the country, but I wasn't
2:53
Speaker 2: in Melbourne.
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Speaker 3: He got his seven hundreds against Sir Andrew Strauss I
2:57
Speaker 3: was headly in twenty nineteen when Ben Stokes play one
3:00
Speaker 3: of the greatest thinnings of all time, getting England over
3:03
Speaker 3: the line.
3:04
Speaker 2: I was at Lord's for the Johnny baarstoincident.
3:08
Speaker 3: I've seen some special moments in Ashley's history, and I'm
3:12
Speaker 3: pretty sure over the next seven or eight weeks we're
3:14
Speaker 3: going to have a few more.
3:17
Speaker 1: Well, Mike Raddle through a couple of those ones. You
3:18
Speaker 1: were standing the point when Steve Wall makes that last
3:21
Speaker 1: ball century. I believe the spin and bowler introduced himself
3:27
Speaker 1: now is a bowler who who bowled the ball at
3:30
Speaker 1: Steve Ward made his last ball century from one of
3:33
Speaker 1: your teammates. His names just escaped me for a second there,
3:37
Speaker 1: Richard Dawson. That's right. Sorry, Matt Cueman was telling me
3:40
Speaker 1: that when he when he arrived for County Cricket, Richard
3:42
Speaker 1: Dawson introduced himself that way to him. What was he
3:45
Speaker 1: getting to feel like at this CG that day and
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Speaker 1: as a rival as an opponent, are you looking at
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Speaker 1: that anticipation? You're doing all you came to stop him
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Speaker 1: from from getting to that milestone?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess so.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm pretty sure Gilly was at the end
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Speaker 3: just knocking seen to try and get Steve Wore on strike.
4:02
Speaker 3: It was an amazing atmosphere. We were four nil down
4:06
Speaker 3: in this series. We've got an half decent number on
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Speaker 3: the board. And then Steve Wore came out to about
4:11
Speaker 3: on date two. He wasn't in great nick, you know,
4:14
Speaker 3: he'd not had a series like he had in previous
4:17
Speaker 3: as series and suddenly started to play a few shots
4:19
Speaker 3: and the atmosphere was all there for him to get
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Speaker 3: the three figures. We tried everything to try and I
4:25
Speaker 3: guess delay that and try and take it into day three.
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Speaker 2: But it was a special moment.
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Speaker 3: No idea what I was doing at silly points, to
4:33
Speaker 3: be honest, but Richard Dawson bowled him a nice little
4:35
Speaker 3: ball outside off and he crashed it past my left
4:38
Speaker 3: shin and I guess the rest is history. But he
4:41
Speaker 3: was out pretty cheap with the next day and we
4:44
Speaker 3: actually won that game, you know, we actually we didn't
4:47
Speaker 3: get whitewash.
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Speaker 2: We managed to lose for one and win that Test match.
4:50
Speaker 3: But it was a special moment to be out there
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Speaker 3: witnessing the atmosphere.
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Speaker 2: At the SCG.
4:57
Speaker 1: We talked about Shane Warnson and you said you were
5:00
Speaker 1: in the country, what were you doing and did you
5:03
Speaker 1: keep an eye on it? It was the type of
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Speaker 1: I suppose moment that that I suppose Will Cricket would
5:10
Speaker 1: have stood and watched in applauded.
5:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and it was always going to be
5:13
Speaker 3: the case at the MCG that he was going to
5:16
Speaker 3: get that historic number. Well, I was injured, so I
5:20
Speaker 3: was preparing to get fit and I played in the
5:22
Speaker 3: one day series after the sixty seven but.
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Speaker 2: One.
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Speaker 3: He used to write his own scripts and to deliver
5:30
Speaker 3: it on that given day at the MCG in front
5:32
Speaker 3: of near on one hundred thousand people. Great sports people,
5:37
Speaker 3: as I said, they write their own scripts and they
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Speaker 3: deliver when the fans expect, when the media expects, and
5:44
Speaker 3: when the individual expects. And that's exactly what Warned did
5:47
Speaker 3: on that occasion.
5:49
Speaker 1: Ben Stokes, she touched on him. And this is more
5:52
Speaker 1: broadly for this series as well. But they're twenty nineteen.
5:55
Speaker 1: If in the game the effort at Lord's were they
5:57
Speaker 1: didn't quite get over the line in twenty twenty three,
5:59
Speaker 1: but it was still one of he needs from him
6:02
Speaker 1: in the tists that they were beaten in there, that
6:05
Speaker 1: moment in twenty nine. But also what does he mean
6:07
Speaker 1: for English cricket and what does he mean for this
6:09
Speaker 1: sir summary head?
6:12
Speaker 3: He is everything for the Sengland team. You know, I've
6:14
Speaker 3: said it regularly over the last year or so with
6:16
Speaker 3: Ben Stokes to compete absolutely anybody in any conditions. Without
6:20
Speaker 3: Ben Stokes, and without Ben Stokes as the all rounder
6:23
Speaker 3: who can't bowl, they can lose to anybody. You know,
6:25
Speaker 3: is that important? Here is the real cog in the
6:28
Speaker 3: wheel that needs to operate. First and foremost, he has
6:32
Speaker 3: to get fit. He has to be ad a bowl,
6:33
Speaker 3: he has to be ad a bat and he obviously
6:34
Speaker 3: has to be able to move in the field. And
6:36
Speaker 3: if he can and he can stay fit for five
6:38
Speaker 3: Test matches, he'll give Australia a run for the money.
6:42
Speaker 3: He's just got that mentality, He's got that drive, he's
6:46
Speaker 3: got that light in both them like Shane warn these
6:48
Speaker 3: you know, these legendary players that have played the game.
6:52
Speaker 3: He has that real will to win and he'll drive
6:55
Speaker 3: the team forward if he's bowling, isn't able to deliver
6:59
Speaker 3: like he did against India. For the few Test matches
7:01
Speaker 3: that evolved, he was England's best Seemer by a country mile.
7:04
Speaker 3: If he can get fit to ball with five Test matches,
7:08
Speaker 3: he will give Australia a real run for his money.
7:11
Speaker 3: He's just got this amazing ability to crack open a game,
7:15
Speaker 3: whether it's with the bat in hand, with the ball
7:16
Speaker 3: in hand. Is it as calma batter that I've ever
7:19
Speaker 3: seen under pressure when the real moments on, Ben Stokes
7:22
Speaker 3: generally delivers with the bat and in recent times against
7:26
Speaker 3: India with the ball.
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Speaker 2: He was the.
7:28
Speaker 3: Person the player that he turned to to try and
7:30
Speaker 3: crack open the game, and he did it on a
7:32
Speaker 3: regular basis.
7:33
Speaker 2: So it's very important that he stays fit.
7:37
Speaker 1: I was speaking to one of your former teammates, Jorane Jones, recently,
7:41
Speaker 1: and he said to him from a far looked like
7:44
Speaker 1: he was the being sociogial version of an injury flintoff,
7:48
Speaker 1: a guy who would just give him, give his all
7:51
Speaker 1: and do all he could and then wondering in the
7:53
Speaker 1: change him afterwards and slapping the chair. But he knew
7:55
Speaker 1: that he just delivered and lift everything out there on
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Speaker 1: the on the field. Do you see that with Stoke?
8:00
Speaker 2: Yes?
8:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can remember his captain, you know, Freddie captain
8:04
Speaker 3: here in six seven wasn't easy against that legendary Australian side.
8:09
Speaker 3: But Ben's been captain in the Test team now for
8:10
Speaker 3: a while and he's a remarkable leader, a really good tactician.
8:14
Speaker 3: We don't really mention how clever he is with his tactics,
8:17
Speaker 3: but he's a real good tactician.
8:20
Speaker 1: You know.
8:21
Speaker 3: I'm not saying he's everything to this England team, but
8:23
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to try and take Australia on in
8:26
Speaker 3: their own backyard without a Ben Stokes that can play
8:30
Speaker 3: all the facets in the game. So England have to
8:33
Speaker 3: manage him. But I guess it's not England who have
8:36
Speaker 3: to manage it. He has to manage himself. He's going
8:38
Speaker 3: to really look after that body. We've seen involved ten
8:41
Speaker 3: over spells, twelve over spells in the series in New
8:44
Speaker 3: Zealand in the summer against India and he couldn't finish
8:47
Speaker 3: the series. So it's very, very important that he manages
8:50
Speaker 3: that body because he can't evolve in the Mammas spells
8:53
Speaker 3: in the heat of Australia. He's got to manage himself
8:57
Speaker 3: because he's the only person that can manage him himself.
9:02
Speaker 1: You you talked about what we discussed Joe Reid arriving
9:06
Speaker 1: in the country overnight. I think one of the I
9:08
Speaker 1: suppose one of the things that people are looking forward
9:10
Speaker 1: to the most is watching Smith and going against each
9:14
Speaker 1: other again. You know, two champion number fours. We've had
9:16
Speaker 1: a couple of other great number fours in recent years
9:19
Speaker 1: in Leedston and obviously Coley, but these two, what what
9:22
Speaker 1: defines them as is great of I suppose of all time.
9:26
Speaker 1: What's made them two of the most special betteries in
9:28
Speaker 1: the world.
9:30
Speaker 3: Well, they're just so consistent and they delivering all conditions.
9:34
Speaker 3: That's why they're great players. They can play the pace,
9:38
Speaker 3: they can play the spin, they can play at home,
9:40
Speaker 3: they can play away.
9:41
Speaker 2: I know Joe's not got one hundred here, but I'll.
9:43
Speaker 3: Be staggered if he doesn't get one hundred and five
9:45
Speaker 3: matches in Australia. He's playing with such a calmness, and
9:49
Speaker 3: he had a little bit of a moment where he
9:51
Speaker 3: played a little bit much like the bass ballers. He
9:53
Speaker 3: had a little bit of a stumble, but it was
9:56
Speaker 3: a massive stumb but he was still averaging plenty. But
9:58
Speaker 3: I'm delighted to see him just playing the Joe Root
10:00
Speaker 3: weigh and if he can just play his way and
10:02
Speaker 3: he can be that glue of consistency at number four,
10:06
Speaker 3: the likes of Ben duck At at the top, Zat Crawley,
10:08
Speaker 3: Harry Brook at five, James Smith at seven, Ben Stokes
10:12
Speaker 3: at six, they can just play their natural, aggressive way.
10:14
Speaker 3: But I wouldn't want to see them try and play
10:17
Speaker 3: that way if Joe roots out early, you know, I
10:19
Speaker 3: think Joe's going to have to be the clue in
10:21
Speaker 3: the kind.
10:22
Speaker 2: Of rock for England, as is Steve Smith.
10:24
Speaker 3: Steve Smith we've seen him in many Ashley series that
10:27
Speaker 3: if he gets an early score he'll have a big,
10:29
Speaker 3: big series. So it's very important that you can find
10:32
Speaker 3: a method and a way to try and keep Steve
10:34
Speaker 3: Smith quite. He's come to Australia, got one hundred for
10:37
Speaker 3: New South Wales his first time of asking at the Gabba,
10:41
Speaker 3: and from what I've seen, he looks like he's really
10:44
Speaker 3: geared up to this ASHES series. He's clearly going to
10:46
Speaker 3: captain at the start. His record as a captain is exceptional.
10:51
Speaker 3: He hasn't lost yet when he's coming as an interim
10:53
Speaker 3: for Pac Cummins and he'll want that record to carry on.
10:58
Speaker 1: Similarly, sort of I suppose hid to hit battles and
11:02
Speaker 1: in Gilchrist one he said he's looking forward to the
11:04
Speaker 1: most is the foo keepers. He's a keeper, of course,
11:07
Speaker 1: for he was a fantastic batsman. But Kerrie and Smith,
11:12
Speaker 1: we haven't seen Smith down here. What does Smith bring
11:14
Speaker 1: to the equation and what can all the audiences look for.
11:17
Speaker 2: He's a fine player.
11:18
Speaker 3: He's kind of taken to international cricket so easily with
11:22
Speaker 3: some incredible innings. Is glove work is very efficient. You
11:26
Speaker 3: don't generally notice him, which is a good sign for
11:28
Speaker 3: a keeper. He doesn't make too many mistakes, or he
11:32
Speaker 3: hasn't to date. With the bat in hand, he's very destructive.
11:35
Speaker 3: He can be very dangerous. I mean in recent times
11:37
Speaker 3: at the back end of the Indian series he looked
11:39
Speaker 3: a bit jaded and tired and made a few mistakes
11:42
Speaker 3: with the bat in hand. He's not quite got the
11:45
Speaker 3: runs in New Zealand in the white ball game, and
11:47
Speaker 3: he's been getting out quite cheaply. But all these England
11:51
Speaker 3: players know that this is their moment and Jamie Smith
11:53
Speaker 3: will be back for the next tour.
11:54
Speaker 2: I have no doubt.
11:55
Speaker 3: But for this team that have been developed now for
11:58
Speaker 3: three or four years playing this way, inexpansive, flamboyant, great
12:03
Speaker 3: to watch. They yet to win a five match series,
12:06
Speaker 3: you know, in England won a five match series since
12:08
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen. And they may have to change their method
12:12
Speaker 3: and they may have to just go down in the
12:15
Speaker 3: gears slightly in Australia, because I can't see how you
12:17
Speaker 3: beat in Australian side by just playing one way which
12:20
Speaker 3: is ultra aggressive all the time. So I have seen
12:23
Speaker 3: him in recent times a team that have been able
12:25
Speaker 3: to just do it slightly differently.
12:27
Speaker 2: But they're going to have to be very very smart
12:29
Speaker 2: over here in Australia.
12:30
Speaker 3: I think they're going to attack Josh Hazel with that
12:32
Speaker 3: new cooker or a ball on a regular basis. I
12:35
Speaker 3: think there'll be three and four wickets down quite quickly
12:37
Speaker 3: on a regular basis. So I'm really intrigued to see
12:39
Speaker 3: whether they can go up and down in the gears.
12:42
Speaker 3: If they can and they can be clever and smart
12:43
Speaker 3: at the right times, I think they're going to give
12:46
Speaker 3: Australia a run for the money.
12:48
Speaker 1: There were some comments from mitchtak overnight he took five
12:53
Speaker 1: wickets or four wickets for and you Saith wills against
12:55
Speaker 1: Victoria in a shoe game featuring a lot of the
12:57
Speaker 1: Australian players. Point was made to him, do we want
13:01
Speaker 1: five day tests with the pictures of flat and cricket
13:04
Speaker 1: Australia makes a lot of money? He says. His responsible was,
13:08
Speaker 1: we want the pitches we've had the last couple of
13:10
Speaker 1: years with I Supposeally Green Mamber a bit of venom
13:13
Speaker 1: in them. Which way do you think they'll go? Which
13:15
Speaker 1: way do you think cricket Australia will go? Given we
13:17
Speaker 1: know that there's tender twenty thousand English fans, the Barmai
13:21
Speaker 1: Army making the trick down, it's a long way to
13:23
Speaker 1: come at a lot of a lot of bees to
13:26
Speaker 1: be drunk, a lot of a lot of I suppose
13:28
Speaker 1: merchandise to be sold. If you get five days at
13:30
Speaker 1: each test.
13:31
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, I think what we've seen
13:35
Speaker 3: in recent times in Australia pitchers have done plenty, so
13:38
Speaker 3: it's not been easy for the batter is if you
13:39
Speaker 3: get those kind of pitches, I guess you look at
13:43
Speaker 3: Australia's experience with the ball in hand there that could
13:46
Speaker 3: be the difference. But I'm always intrigued with the modern player,
13:49
Speaker 3: because they all speaking somebody that they want five day
13:52
Speaker 3: Test match cricket, but they want three day four day wickets.
13:54
Speaker 2: So you know they've got.
13:57
Speaker 3: To decide if you want a five day match where
13:58
Speaker 3: you're gonna have to plan pitches that are a little
14:00
Speaker 3: bit better and a little bit harder for balling. If
14:02
Speaker 3: you want the pitchers to offer plenty for the ballers
14:06
Speaker 3: and for the ball to do all sorts, well, we
14:08
Speaker 3: don't need five days because it's not going to last
14:10
Speaker 3: five days. It's going to cost the game too much money.
14:12
Speaker 3: So I just want a fair balance. You want to
14:15
Speaker 3: balance where it offers a little bit for the seamers
14:18
Speaker 3: and then it becomes a good pitch for batting and
14:21
Speaker 3: then spin might come into the equation. You know, you
14:23
Speaker 3: got the one facet from both sides which stands out
14:27
Speaker 3: a mild to me is that Australia have a world
14:29
Speaker 3: class spinner. I'm going to have a very young spinner
14:31
Speaker 3: and Showy bush Year is just starting out. But there's
14:34
Speaker 3: some glaring stats you know that you look at across
14:38
Speaker 3: the two teams and you know we're going to have
14:40
Speaker 3: got one player in Australian conditions with one hundred and
14:42
Speaker 3: that's Ben Stokes and that was eight years ago Australia.
14:45
Speaker 3: Whoever they played with that Perth will have around fifty
14:48
Speaker 3: odd hundreds. Steve Smith alone has twenty six hundred here
14:51
Speaker 3: in Australia. So you've got fifty hundreds or around that
14:54
Speaker 3: number against one. And then the attack of Australian methan
14:58
Speaker 3: lion plays in Australia and I guess he will do
15:02
Speaker 3: in Perth. He's got two hundred and sixty eight wickets
15:04
Speaker 3: alone here in Australia, and then Tat will have around
15:07
Speaker 3: seven hundred wickets in Australian conditions. And in England played
15:11
Speaker 3: Mark Wood, Ben Stokes and Joe Root, which I'm pretty
15:15
Speaker 3: sure they will.
15:15
Speaker 2: They're all fit.
15:16
Speaker 3: They're the only three bowlders in the England team that
15:19
Speaker 3: I've got wickets Here in Australia they've got forty three.
15:21
Speaker 3: So you've got fifty odd hundreds versus one, and you've
15:24
Speaker 3: got over seven hundred wickets versus forty three, of which
15:27
Speaker 3: seven have come from the offspin of Joe Route. There
15:30
Speaker 3: is a huge gulf in experience in these conditions. England
15:34
Speaker 3: will hope that best went fresh. They'll hope that this
15:37
Speaker 3: energized team can surprise Australia and in a few weeks
15:41
Speaker 3: time we'll be saying, you know, when you come to Australia,
15:43
Speaker 3: you actually don't need that much experience. I have a
15:46
Speaker 3: little bit of a worry that all that experience of
15:48
Speaker 3: Australia might be just too powerful for this England side.
15:53
Speaker 1: I saw something pretty fascinating. Well, I thought it was
15:56
Speaker 1: really interesting. That's part of us. One of the one
15:59
Speaker 1: of the programs you do back in the UK, I
16:01
Speaker 1: think it was BBC where you have audience Engagement and
16:05
Speaker 1: you were talking about this series coming up, and one
16:08
Speaker 1: of the questions was with an Australian fan in the
16:10
Speaker 1: stands and it was about Basball and why else he's
16:12
Speaker 1: get so wound up by bas Ball? Why is it?
16:16
Speaker 1: Do you think that it sort of rills us? What
16:18
Speaker 1: do you think it or do you think it riles us?
16:20
Speaker 1: And that sort of I suppose coverage of it, the
16:24
Speaker 1: discussion of it, the bar chat about it. How have
16:28
Speaker 1: you viewed that debate? Does it give you a laugh?
16:32
Speaker 1: Do you take some amusement in Australia seeing me bagged
16:35
Speaker 1: by it?
16:35
Speaker 2: Yeah?
16:36
Speaker 3: I mean that was on Stick to Cricket, Yes, on
16:40
Speaker 3: the new podcast YouTube show that we're doing in the UK,
16:43
Speaker 3: which is actually coming to Australia, which will be on
16:45
Speaker 3: Fox and Co, which will be great fun. I don't
16:49
Speaker 3: know if it winds Australia or but I think Australia,
16:53
Speaker 3: like most cricket fans around the world, kind of look
16:55
Speaker 3: at who's winning. You know, who's lifting the Wild Test
16:58
Speaker 3: Chamionship Final. What's South Africa it last year because they'd
17:00
Speaker 3: beat Australia in the final the previous one Australia won it.
17:03
Speaker 3: You know, in the previous Ashes it was too old
17:05
Speaker 3: and in the series against Injury it was too all.
17:07
Speaker 3: In the twenty nineteen series it was too old. And
17:10
Speaker 3: the last time England were in Australia was Fourny. So
17:13
Speaker 3: I think most cricket fans around the world they actually
17:16
Speaker 3: like watching England play because they play expansively, but they
17:20
Speaker 3: yet to win a big series and that's the big
17:23
Speaker 3: stepping stone now for Ben Stokes and Bas McCullum.
17:27
Speaker 2: They have to win.
17:28
Speaker 3: They have to have that earning their hands on January
17:31
Speaker 3: the eighth, and the way to do that is you
17:34
Speaker 3: can't just basball your way to winning an ASHES series.
17:37
Speaker 3: In Australia and that's why I say they're going to
17:38
Speaker 3: have to be smart. They're going to have to go
17:40
Speaker 3: up and down in the gears. I do believe they've
17:42
Speaker 3: got the skill sets and the mindset to do that.
17:45
Speaker 3: It's just whether when the pressure gets really hot, and
17:47
Speaker 3: it will that first few days in Perth it is
17:51
Speaker 3: going to be crucial. You know, you've got an Australian
17:53
Speaker 3: side that looks to me if you go back twelve
17:56
Speaker 3: months ago when they played Indian Perth, they weren't quite prepared.
17:59
Speaker 3: They were a little bit undercout going into that first Test.
18:02
Speaker 3: They got beat. Andrew McDonald and his staff they look
18:05
Speaker 3: to me from the outside that they're saying now, that's
18:07
Speaker 3: not going to happen again. I know pack Cummins isn't
18:09
Speaker 3: going to play, but all the players are playing state cricket.
18:12
Speaker 3: I know it's been Quijous missing out this week, but
18:14
Speaker 3: he's played three rounds already. Every single Australia play will
18:18
Speaker 3: be game ready by November the twenty first. They're going
18:21
Speaker 3: to have been in New Zealand for a white ball series.
18:23
Speaker 3: Not done great, no problem with having a few days off.
18:28
Speaker 3: They've played a bit of golf that are arriving in Perth.
18:30
Speaker 3: They're going to play a three day one game amongst
18:32
Speaker 3: themselves that we all know is never as intense as
18:35
Speaker 3: a proper first class fiction on a pitch that's not
18:37
Speaker 3: going to bounce a great deal at Lylett Hill, and
18:39
Speaker 3: then a few days later play at the per Stadium.
18:43
Speaker 3: They have to play well because you know, they don't
18:45
Speaker 3: play well and they look under cooked and they don't
18:48
Speaker 3: look prepared properly for that first game. They're going to
18:51
Speaker 3: get a huge amount of criticism. But what I admire
18:54
Speaker 3: about this thing them so they're doing it their way.
18:56
Speaker 3: They're doing it the way that they believe works for them,
18:58
Speaker 3: and they'll be judged. They'll be judged at the end
19:00
Speaker 3: of the series whether it's worked or not. And if
19:02
Speaker 3: it's worked, great, they'll get a huge amount of credit.
19:06
Speaker 3: If it goes the other way and it doesn't work,
19:08
Speaker 3: and we've seen this movie before in Australia, and there'll
19:11
Speaker 3: be a few people under a lot of pressure.
19:14
Speaker 1: Now, as we do each summer with Fox Sports and
19:17
Speaker 1: Fox Sports St Coram Dot You, we have looked at
19:19
Speaker 1: all the great series last years. It was Australia versus India,
19:22
Speaker 1: we went through the five great Tests. The one we've
19:25
Speaker 1: opted for this year is the two thousand and five
19:27
Speaker 1: Acus series, of which you were captain, and it was
19:29
Speaker 1: a famous one and widely considered one of the greatest.
19:32
Speaker 1: Now not necessarily one you want to talk about all
19:34
Speaker 1: the time. I understand, Michael. It's probably when you've covered
19:37
Speaker 1: a lot through the years, might just hit you up
19:39
Speaker 1: on a couple of key moments or a couple of
19:41
Speaker 1: you sort of thoughts. Twenty years on a couple of
19:43
Speaker 1: key moments. Gilly said that he knew England was coming.
19:49
Speaker 1: He felt from a white ball series leading into that
19:52
Speaker 1: ashes going back a few months before that they were coming.
19:55
Speaker 1: But then you get to the first sess that Lords
19:57
Speaker 1: Australia get through. But he said after that it wasn't
20:01
Speaker 1: much of a chat and he thought, oh, this is
20:03
Speaker 1: an England team that really desperately wants this actual serious.
20:06
Speaker 1: Can you remember that sort of build up and at
20:08
Speaker 1: the end of that first Test.
20:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the build up started in
20:12
Speaker 3: two thousand and four when we won seven Test matches
20:15
Speaker 3: at home, so we kind of got a mechanism of
20:18
Speaker 3: knowing how to win. We got over the line on
20:19
Speaker 3: a couple of tight occasions. We then went to South Africa.
20:22
Speaker 3: We won in South Africa, which was a big, big
20:25
Speaker 3: series win for us because we were just this developing side.
20:29
Speaker 3: We had some good bowlders and that was the key,
20:30
Speaker 3: you know, when youve got Freddie flint Off, Steve Harmers
20:32
Speaker 3: and Matthew Hoggard, Simon Jones. You know, Ashley Garles was
20:37
Speaker 3: doing the joffredge. You could see that we had an
20:39
Speaker 3: attack that should be able to get twenty wickets, and
20:42
Speaker 3: then he was just down to trying to free up
20:44
Speaker 3: the mindset of the players with the bat in hand,
20:46
Speaker 3: to try and try and play sensibly, get in but
20:49
Speaker 3: then don't be scared of being risky against the delights of
20:51
Speaker 3: Shane Warning Glenn McGraw. You know, we had to find
20:54
Speaker 3: a way of scoring against them, you know, if you
20:57
Speaker 3: just sat and just letting them bowl like we did
20:59
Speaker 3: at Law. Actually we didn't play well enough at Laws.
21:01
Speaker 3: Were a little bit frozen on the stage. I thought
21:04
Speaker 3: we're bowl gray. I thought we were decent in the field,
21:07
Speaker 3: but with the bat in hand we weren't quite what
21:09
Speaker 3: we've been. So that was the area that we had
21:12
Speaker 3: to get right for the second game. And when you've
21:14
Speaker 3: got people like Kevin Peterson, they can really challenge any bowler.
21:18
Speaker 3: And when you've got likes of Trustcothic and Strauss at
21:20
Speaker 3: the top of the order that theyre just rock solid
21:22
Speaker 3: human beings, you know, freeing them up to be risky
21:27
Speaker 3: and if you want to play dangerous cricket, we could,
21:29
Speaker 3: but it wasn't just dangerous all the time.
21:31
Speaker 2: And I think.
21:32
Speaker 3: The first day at Age Baston really one of that
21:35
Speaker 3: actually serious because we lost the toss and we were
21:39
Speaker 3: asked about but it's the way that we batted in
21:41
Speaker 3: the intent that we batted with to get four hundred
21:43
Speaker 3: and I think seventy nine overs, which I guess is
21:45
Speaker 3: very similar to the basballers.
21:48
Speaker 1: You know.
21:48
Speaker 3: From then on in we felt we had a way
21:51
Speaker 3: of playing and a confidence within the group to potentially
21:56
Speaker 3: put this Australian side under a huge amount of pressure,
21:58
Speaker 3: that we had the element to fortune.
22:00
Speaker 2: Glen ma Gar trips on a board.
22:02
Speaker 3: The decision at the toss, one of two decisions went
22:06
Speaker 3: our way, particularly at trent Bridge. I thought that has
22:08
Speaker 3: got a couple of elvies that were shocking, but we'll
22:10
Speaker 3: take it. And then we had Flint hop that just
22:13
Speaker 3: found his mojo. You know, people are saying that this
22:17
Speaker 3: series is it's got a similar kind of look to
22:20
Speaker 3: what that was back then with this team and the
22:22
Speaker 3: way that they've played. And the one thing is we
22:26
Speaker 3: just have players that found form, you know, and that's
22:28
Speaker 3: what eOne have to do here.
22:29
Speaker 2: They'll have to have all their players finding formed.
22:31
Speaker 3: They'll have to have their their senior pros being consistent
22:36
Speaker 3: and two or three players can't win you an ASHES series.
22:39
Speaker 3: And if you look at five, every single player from
22:42
Speaker 3: one to element and even Paul Collinwood that came in
22:44
Speaker 3: for the last Test match, he played a crucial innings
22:46
Speaker 3: on that last day and everyone at certain times contributed
22:50
Speaker 3: and to win against good teams, that's what has to happen,
22:54
Speaker 3: and that's what will have to happen here in Australia.
22:57
Speaker 3: Every single player at certain times a critical moment. So
23:00
Speaker 3: we'll have to play that part.
23:03
Speaker 1: It was said to me, Old Trafford, you look across
23:07
Speaker 1: and see the showing celebrating and draw heap pointing had
23:09
Speaker 1: battered magnificently to hold on and you know a couple
23:14
Speaker 1: of thrilling I suppose conclusions in that match you got
23:17
Speaker 1: the better Bermingham with the Kaspa which dismissal the Aussies
23:21
Speaker 1: hold on for that draw for one of all, when
23:24
Speaker 1: you saw them celebrating, do you think this is an
23:27
Speaker 1: unusual thing that we're right in this? And I guess
23:30
Speaker 1: the the other one was And Brittlee talked about this,
23:33
Speaker 1: the Gary Pratt moment where he executes a brilliant run out.
23:37
Speaker 1: Have you spoken to Ricky since it was he was
23:40
Speaker 1: it something that he still wants to talk about now
23:42
Speaker 1: or won't talk about now?
23:44
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean Old Traffic.
23:46
Speaker 3: We played great, that was the best performance we gave,
23:48
Speaker 3: but we didn't win because of an incredible innings by
23:51
Speaker 3: Ricky Pinson. But I don't know, when you're the leader
23:54
Speaker 3: and a captain, you do things just instinctive lout I
23:57
Speaker 3: always say to young captains or people that cap and
24:00
Speaker 3: then just react, you know, whatever the situation just could
24:02
Speaker 3: to have that mechanism to react. And you know, I've
24:05
Speaker 3: never seen Australia celebrate and drawing my life.
24:07
Speaker 2: You know, they don't draw many full stop.
24:09
Speaker 3: But to see them bouncing on the back of each
24:12
Speaker 3: other at Old Traff and it just showed to me
24:14
Speaker 3: that we've got them into a position that. You know,
24:17
Speaker 3: I'm not not sure they were scared of us, but
24:19
Speaker 3: I knew that they that they respected us and celebrating
24:23
Speaker 3: and draw. I think it's the ultimate respect in a
24:25
Speaker 3: way that great Australian side. So I just wanted to
24:28
Speaker 3: play to know at the end of the game that
24:30
Speaker 3: giving it everything. Look at that that they're celebrating and
24:33
Speaker 3: on the back of Garrett actually the moment where he
24:36
Speaker 3: round Ricky out probably for the only time in that series.
24:40
Speaker 3: We were in our right to have Gary out there
24:43
Speaker 3: because Simon Jones was in hospital it'd bolded over or
24:46
Speaker 3: too in the second innings.
24:47
Speaker 1: And nebul player.
24:49
Speaker 3: Yeah he was great, Simon, yeah, and you know he
24:53
Speaker 3: never played for England again, so he was off the
24:56
Speaker 3: field getting scanned in hospitals.
24:57
Speaker 2: So we were allowed at twelveth man at the.
25:00
Speaker 3: Stage on that particularly occasion where by the way, it
25:03
Speaker 3: was a shocking run. No one talks about the call
25:06
Speaker 3: from Damian Martin, but the skill of Gary Pratton they
25:09
Speaker 3: delivered the runout. Just again, we've mentioned special Ashes moments
25:14
Speaker 3: and I guess in the history that's always a moment
25:16
Speaker 3: that people talk about, you know, fielding, I'll keep.
25:21
Speaker 2: Saying about winning here in Australia.
25:23
Speaker 3: In recent times England have struggled and they've dropped a
25:26
Speaker 3: lot of catches, you know, and England are going to
25:28
Speaker 3: have to catch well on that cordon whoever they end
25:31
Speaker 3: up having in the cord, and Joe Root will be
25:33
Speaker 3: at first slip. Zach Crawley are being in around there,
25:36
Speaker 3: Ben Ducketts in and around there. But generally Australia don't
25:41
Speaker 3: drop the ball and in recent times England have dropped
25:44
Speaker 3: a number of chances here in Australia.
25:46
Speaker 2: And fielding is going to be a big, big part
25:48
Speaker 2: in the series.
25:50
Speaker 1: I know we've got in the midst of a mecha's shooting.
25:52
Speaker 1: Really grateful for your time, Michael. Will you keep an
25:54
Speaker 1: eye on the Shield Mets this week or Lilac Hill?
25:57
Speaker 1: Which one will have more interest for you?
26:00
Speaker 2: Well, that the.
26:01
Speaker 3: Shield games will finish the day that the Lilac Hill
26:04
Speaker 3: game starts.
26:05
Speaker 2: A lot of killers.
26:06
Speaker 3: I don't have a great deal of interest in it,
26:08
Speaker 3: to be honest, because I've seen those games before. I've
26:11
Speaker 3: been in teams and squads where you're playing amongst yourselves
26:14
Speaker 3: and the intensity that they might say, so it's never there.
26:18
Speaker 3: England are running the risk of arriving in per for
26:21
Speaker 3: that first game. You know, bearing in mind Pack Cummings
26:24
Speaker 3: isn't there. It's a hugely risk, risky tactic that they've
26:28
Speaker 3: gone for with. You know, Zach Crawley's not played cricket
26:31
Speaker 3: I think since August the twenty third, that was one
26:33
Speaker 3: hundred ball game. Mark Wood hasn't played cricket for a
26:36
Speaker 3: long while because of his injury. You know, Ben Duckett's
26:39
Speaker 3: just derived from his wedding. He played a few innings
26:41
Speaker 3: in New Zealand. Olive Poach's not played any cricket for
26:45
Speaker 3: a number of months. Joff for Archis hadn't played any cricket.
26:50
Speaker 3: They're running the risk that some of their players potentially
26:53
Speaker 3: could have could have done with a bit more of
26:55
Speaker 3: an out in those players that have played all the formats.
26:58
Speaker 3: I can completely understand because you're not always guaranteed to
27:01
Speaker 3: get the quality of opposition.
27:02
Speaker 2: But well, I think they're running a risk.
27:05
Speaker 3: Could that Crawley have arrived early and played a couple
27:08
Speaker 3: of great games just to get used to Australian conditions.
27:13
Speaker 3: Could Olipope have done the same, you know, just a
27:15
Speaker 3: three day game amongst your your pals, really you know
27:19
Speaker 3: your pals are your play against week in week out
27:21
Speaker 3: on a pitch that's not going to bound. Is that
27:24
Speaker 3: that good enough preparation. We'll find out. We'll find out.
27:27
Speaker 3: But as I said that they're running the risk and
27:29
Speaker 3: what I do enjoy in management and in leadership, teams
27:33
Speaker 3: have just gone out this is the way we go
27:35
Speaker 3: about a business. But ultimately by doing it that way
27:39
Speaker 3: they run the risk for a huge amount of criticism
27:42
Speaker 3: if it doesn't go.
27:43
Speaker 2: Right, and that's what the England side have done.
27:46
Speaker 1: Well. Thanks so much Michael for your insights to the
27:49
Speaker 1: follow one. Really looking forward to chatting through the summer
27:52
Speaker 1: should be a great one. Good luck with the mechas
27:55
Speaker 1: today done it too much?
27:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, just mate. Thank you