Latest / Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky / Getting Over Yourself: The Brutal Truth About Starting Over again.

Transcript

Getting Over Yourself: The Brutal Truth About Starting Over again. · Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky

• 0:00
  It's always the people who put on the biggest shows who have to hide the most.
• 0:04
  I want to follow halakha 100%, but if we're being honest, we all pick and choose.
• 0:10
  Everyone's at their level and everyone's on their own journey and everyone's on their own path.
• 0:14
  This whole notion of like, you all got to look the same and sound the same and do the same.
• 0:18
  And if you don't, you're excommunicated.
• 0:20
  I always find it baffling how you can have women wearing full sheytals,
• 0:26
  screwing around with their neighbor's husband.
• 0:29
  But because they dress the part of looking from, everyone assumes and categorizes them as from.
• 0:37
  I am more spiritually connected now than I have ever been in my entire life because I am true to myself and I am honoring the gifts God gave me.
• 0:49
  Welcome back to Tribe and Tribulations.
• 0:52
  I am here today with two special guests.
• 0:56
  some of you might know him from his viral tiktoks or reels and you might know his beautiful wife
• 1:03
  java from call her tati but they are so much more than just their titles and i am so excited to have
• 1:09
  them here in studio today welcome zeli and java am i calling you honig or we go by sure we could
• 1:15
  go by honig today by the way that's a big that's a big win today we got one by the way i still go
• 1:22
  by my maiden name, which nobody knows
• 1:24
  on here, but I feel like...
• 1:26
  Is that the K?
• 1:27
  Yeah.
• 1:29
  Don't say it out loud.
• 1:29
  It's literally in your Instagram.
• 1:30
  I know.
• 1:31
  People don't realize.
• 1:32
  Yesterday I got a DM from somebody
• 1:34
  saying, I didn't realize your name was Julia.
• 1:37
  I'm like,
• 1:38
  okay, no problem.
• 1:40
  What did they think your name was?
• 1:41
  I don't know, JK.
• 1:42
  JK.
• 1:43
  Like growling.
• 1:44
  Yes, exactly.
• 1:45
  That's not bad.
• 1:46
  You know what?
• 1:47
  If I could be as rich and as
• 1:48
  famous, then I guess we have...
• 1:50
  You'll take the JK.
• 1:51
  Yeah, fine.
• 1:51
  No problem.
• 1:54
  life in the Jewish world is a little different than in the secular world.
• 1:57
  And one of the things
• 1:59
  that you have to compete with is this idea that you need to be at a certain level at a certain
• 2:04
  time in your life.
• 2:06
  But what happens when things don't work out exactly how you think they're
• 2:10
  going to?
• 2:11
  What happens when you decide you want to reinvent yourself at 30 or 20 or 50?
• 2:18
  do we have space for that?
• 2:19
  And I think my guests
• 2:22
  have a unique look on that
• 2:24
  because they've reinvented themselves
• 2:26
  many times in faith,
• 2:28
  in relationships, and in business.
• 2:30
  And I'm really looking forward to
• 2:32
  discussing each one of those.
• 2:34
  Awesome.
• 2:34
  Let's get into it.
• 2:36
  First and foremost,
• 2:38
  how did you guys meet?
• 2:41
  Am I telling this story?
• 2:42
  Yeah.
• 2:42
  I said it too many times.
• 2:43
  Okay, here we go.
• 2:45
  Should we just call them out?
• 2:47
  Yeah.
• 2:47
  Okay.
• 2:48
  If you guys know a guy named Rafi Levy.
• 2:50
  Okay.
• 2:50
  You know Rafi?
• 2:51
  No, I don't.
• 2:51
  Oh, okay.
• 2:52
  Nice boy from Lawrence.
• 2:53
  Five towns.
• 2:55
  Rafi was one of my best friends.
• 2:59
  I'm a young guy.
• 3:00
  He says, I got this girl for you.
• 3:03
  I already called her.
• 3:04
  You're going out with her.
• 3:05
  He sent me up with my ex-wife.
• 3:08
  Okay?
• 3:08
  Oh, so, okay.
• 3:10
  You know where this is going?
• 3:11
  Oh, I already know where this is going.
• 3:12
  Rafi also said a khava.
• 3:15
  I was actually sitting in the office with Chava's ex-husband.
• 3:19
  And Rafi walks into this guy and goes, I got a girl for you, this girl Chava.
• 3:23
  And I remember at that time, we were sitting in an office on Rockaway Turnpike.
• 3:29
  And I look her up on Facebook.
• 3:30
  I remember it so specifically.
• 3:32
  And I go, oh, she's cute.
• 3:33
  You should go out with her.
• 3:34
  And so Rafi made the shidduch to my ex-wife and also made the shidduch for Chava and her ex-husband.
• 3:43
  So he has an interesting track record
• 3:45
  Yeah, well, he made a third one too
• 3:47
  Guess what?
• 3:47
  They also got divorced
• 3:49
  So, the guy's 0 for 3
• 3:52
  Anyways, Chava's already divorced
• 3:53
  for four years
• 3:56
  We, I call Rafi
• 3:57
  as one of the first calls
• 3:59
  as, you know, like it's becoming public
• 4:00
  I didn't want him to hear through the grapevine
• 4:02
  and so I call Rafi and I say
• 4:04
  Rafi, unfortunately, you know, I'm getting divorced
• 4:06
  and his first call is Chava
• 4:09
  My first shit is getting divorced
• 4:10
  I'm freaking out
• 4:12
  And Chava goes, well, I already dated everybody in New York, so get me an off-market deal.
• 4:18
  She's always looking for the best deal possible, I guess.
• 4:21
  I'm always looking for a deal.
• 4:22
  Fashion, real estate, dating, so she got the off-market deal.
• 4:25
  Anyway, she friends me on Facebook, and the first DM to her was, like, I saw the friend request.
• 4:30
  Immediately, I messaged her, we got to find the third couple and get them into counseling ASAP.
• 4:34
  And then shortly after, that couple got divorced, unfortunately.
• 4:37
  But thanks, Rafi.
• 4:39
  Manifesting is real, I guess.
• 4:42
  And yeah, we just started chatting.
• 4:43
  We hit it off.
• 4:46
  And, you know, we dated for a little bit.
• 4:50
  And fast forward, and we're about to celebrate our four-year anniversary.
• 4:54
  Congratulations.
• 4:56
  Thank you.
• 4:57
  Okay.
• 4:57
  Both of you have reinvented yourselves many times over.
• 5:03
  Kava, what would you say is your biggest reinvention yet?
• 5:08
  so what's interesting is I don't know if I had a total reinvention I feel like I'm kind of this
• 5:15
  onion and over the years I'm just peeling off layers and because of what I went through which
• 5:23
  was getting married really young getting divorced really young getting remarried again
• 5:30
  I think all those events kind of just allowed me to unleash my true self because when you get to a
• 5:36
  point of you've been through the ringer you've been through hell you've been through things that
• 5:41
  most people my age haven't been through yet you feel like you're almost like I have one life I
• 5:49
  have nothing to lose like why am I living for somebody else when I'm on my deathbed one day
• 5:54
  I'm gonna look back and say why did I do that for everybody else and not for myself 100% so I think
• 6:01
  that, you know, there was like this evolution of myself and I'm sure it will continue.
• 6:07
  But I think
• 6:09
  the little traumas, the big trauma, the stupid things, the not stupid things kind of just give
• 6:16
  me that key to open up doors for that reinvention.
• 6:21
  When did you start allowing yourself to sort of
• 6:24
  think this way because in our world, in the modern orthodox world,
• 6:31
  we all follow a certain trajectory, whether we acknowledge it or not, let's be real,
• 6:37
  where it's you go to school, you go to seminary yeshiva, you go to college or you don't go to
• 6:42
  college, you get married, you have kids, you put them back in yeshiva, and it's the same thing over
• 6:46
  and over again.
• 6:47
  When did you both decide that like, okay, maybe my situation is not going to
• 6:53
  look like everyone else's.
• 6:55
  You have been a serial entrepreneur since the minute I met you a hundred
• 6:59
  years ago.
• 7:00
  So what did that look like when you decided, okay, I'm not going to follow what
• 7:08
  I'm supposed to be doing?
• 7:10
  You know, I think, um, I remember when I was a kid, I went to my dad and
• 7:14
  And I'm like, I was thinking about what I was going to do.
• 7:16
  And I went to my dad and I'm like, yeah, I think I'll go into real estate like you.
• 7:20
  And he's like, you do your own thing.
• 7:22
  Real estate's my thing.
• 7:23
  Do what you're passionate about.
• 7:26
  Forge your own path.
• 7:27
  And I don't know if that was like the one moment that like everything changed.
• 7:30
  But I always sort of beat to the path of my own dream.
• 7:33
  I just, I loved, I loved technology.
• 7:36
  I loved trying things.
• 7:37
  I love experimenting.
• 7:38
  And so I was always sort of off the beaten path career wise.
• 7:42
  Like I was going into tech and startups when like it wasn't cool.
• 7:45
  Like my first startup was in 2009.
• 7:48
  Like this was three years before Instagram came out.
• 7:51
  It was so early.
• 7:53
  My mother was so like, what are you doing?
• 7:57
  But I guess being the oldest, you want to be a little contrarian.
• 8:00
  You know, like my way of rebelling in high school was like wearing a black hat.
• 8:05
  That was my rebellion.
• 8:06
  You're so wild.
• 8:07
  I was a wild teenager.
• 8:09
  I knew it.
• 8:09
  I knew it.
• 8:10
  You definitely give off that vibe.
• 8:11
  Ben Chava, look at you, Bessiach of Girl, marrying a black hatter.
• 8:15
  Perfection.
• 8:16
  I actually think so.
• 8:17
  I did seven years in Camp Romamu because I went to South Shore.
• 8:22
  Do you know Romamu?
• 8:22
  No.
• 8:23
  I'm from L.A., and I went to Moshe Val Wildrose, so it couldn't be more different.
• 8:27
  Romamu is a very yeshivish camp.
• 8:30
  It's become more right over the years.
• 8:32
  In fact, when I was there, they made a rule, like, if you go to a co-ed school, you can't come to the camp anymore.
• 8:37
  And it was like a whole thing.
• 8:40
  but I happen to think
• 8:42
  and this only hit me recently
• 8:44
  I appreciate Chava's humor
• 8:46
  so much because
• 8:48
  there's so much yeshivishisms
• 8:50
  that she uses all day long
• 8:52
  and it would never work with you
• 8:54
  with like a real modern orthodox boy that
• 8:56
  wouldn't get your shgayachs and your whatever
• 8:58
  so I will say this
• 9:00
  my husband went to the mirror yeshiva in Brooklyn
• 9:02
  for those of you that don't know
• 9:04
  it puts Romamu to shame
• 9:05
  I went to very modern
• 9:08
  orthodox schools in LA.
• 9:10
  So it's not only is it out of the box because it was modern orthodox, it's out of the box
• 9:13
  because it's out of town.
• 9:15
  There was such a learning curve when we got married.
• 9:18
  I didn't understand half the words he was saying.
• 9:21
  I was like, what are you even talking about?
• 9:23
  I'm like, what's a spazier?
• 9:26
  What does that even mean?
• 9:28
  Again, it was really like coming from different planets.
• 9:32
  So the fact that you guys understand each other already gave yourselves like a leg up.
• 9:36
  It wasn't just understanding, by the way.
• 9:38
  Like she would say, I think one of the funniest things she said to me was like, I was going out for like a meeting and she just goes, don't forget to make a pishini khaki before you leave.
• 9:48
  And it was like, it was so funny and on brand.
• 9:51
  I'm like, this is the funniest girl I've ever met.
• 9:53
  You know what?
• 9:55
  Humor is really the best way to connect to a significant other.
• 9:59
  I find that like if you can't laugh together, what the heck do you guys have?
• 10:02
  I think a lot of people forget that having fun with your spouse is the only way to keep the spark alive.
• 10:09
  Everyone's like sex and all of these other things.
• 10:12
  And I specialize in that.
• 10:14
  But if I'm being honest with you, if you guys can laugh together and only want to hang out with each other, I only want to hang out with my husband.
• 10:22
  I know that sounds like so lame.
• 10:25
  But ultimately, I just want to have fun.
• 10:28
  And he's the person I want to have fun with.
• 10:31
  and I feel like that seems like the vibe.
• 10:34
  Yeah.
• 10:34
  I think that, you know, even if you're having...
• 10:38
  Can I say the story from Saturday night?
• 10:40
  Yes.
• 10:40
  If you don't say the story from Saturday night,
• 10:41
  you're going to be in trouble.
• 10:42
  I knew you would say this story.
• 10:44
  Zoe and I got into, like, this really heated fight
• 10:47
  about something, like, really freaking stupid.
• 10:50
  I don't even remember what it was about.
• 10:53
  Okay, whatever.
• 10:53
  You can park there.
• 10:55
  Whatever, fine.
• 10:56
  So we got into this really heated argument
• 10:59
  and I know both of us were kind of hungry, like really hungry.
• 11:05
  And it was so, we parked the car, we're starved,
• 11:08
  we sit down at the restaurant, we look at the menu,
• 11:12
  and I'm like, I'm not looking at this.
• 11:14
  I'm not looking at him.
• 11:16
  I'm just, I'm in a bad mood, whatever.
• 11:18
  We order.
• 11:19
  I'm not even saying two words to him.
• 11:22
  The food comes.
• 11:23
  We're both starting to eat.
• 11:24
  We look at each other.
• 11:26
  Okay, I'm sorry.
• 11:27
  I'm sorry.
• 11:28
  I'm sorry.
• 11:29
  By the way, that is so spot on.
• 11:32
  That is spot on because when you're hangry, there is no, it's not even worth the conversation
• 11:38
  because you're only at, you're reacting.
• 11:40
  You're not even acting from a normal place.
• 11:43
  That brings me to what's different this time around than the last time you guys did this
• 11:50
  Because a lot of times, and I'm not going to lie to you, second marriages end not so well sometimes.
• 12:00
  Yeah.
• 12:01
  Because people are set in their ways.
• 12:03
  People come with their own set of baggage and their own set of ideas.
• 12:08
  And it seems like the two of you have charted your own path.
• 12:14
  But what does that look like now?
• 12:15
  How does that create a healthy relationship?
• 12:20
  I think, for starters, because it's both of our second marriage and we've learned the good, the bad, and the ugly from each of our own previous marriages,
• 12:34
  we know where we want to put boundaries.
• 12:36
  And when it comes to a point where you've got to put your foot down, we don't hesitate.
• 12:41
  And I think that that's super important because when you get married really young and you're trying to figure it all out
• 12:47
  and you get peer pressure from parents, from in-laws, from, you know, for Yontif, for Shabbos,
• 12:52
  for this, for that.
• 12:54
  You kind of just like want to make everybody happy and please everybody.
• 12:58
  And then you kind of lose yourself in it.
• 13:01
  And then you look back and you're like, oh,
• 13:04
  like I didn't actually want to do that.
• 13:06
  Like sometimes like I want to spend Yontif with just
• 13:09
  my spouse.
• 13:09
  Like I don't always want to be with my family.
• 13:11
  I don't always have to people please
• 13:13
  everybody all the time.
• 13:15
  So I think that coming into a second marriage and understanding you are
• 13:21
  allowed to create boundaries, whether other people like it or not, it's okay.
• 13:26
  Nobody has to approve
• 13:27
  of that.
• 13:27
  It's your life.
• 13:29
  I think that that is something a lot of people miss.
• 13:33
  Boundaries are
• 13:34
  one of the most important parts of any relationship, whether it's friendship, anything, even with
• 13:39
  parenting, everything, boundaries are the most important.
• 13:42
  I know that in my relationship,
• 13:46
  Shmuel, my husband, basically said to me, we got married right before Pesach.
• 13:52
  And I was like,
• 13:53
  okay, we're going back to Los Angeles.
• 13:55
  He's like, no, we're not.
• 13:56
  Like, what do you mean?
• 13:57
  We were
• 13:57
  just there for the wedding.
• 13:58
  And I was like, what do you mean?
• 14:00
  And I was like, well, we're not going
• 14:01
  to my family.
• 14:02
  We're not going to your family.
• 14:03
  And he goes, okay, no problem.
• 14:05
  And ever since then,
• 14:07
  Pesach's our holiday.
• 14:08
  We do our own thing.
• 14:09
  We go away or we stay home or we figure it out.
• 14:12
  Yeah.
• 14:12
  But from that moment, we sort of said, oh, we charter our own path.
• 14:16
  We know who we are.
• 14:18
  We are each other's family and anybody else who wants to be a part of it is more than welcome
• 14:22
  to be involved.
• 14:23
  But I know it's going to piss off the claw of me saying this out loud, but
• 14:29
  I think that if you build a foundation with your significant other that starts with the two of you
• 14:35
  rather than with the outside voices,
• 14:37
  you're building a much stronger foundation.
• 14:40
  I agree.
• 14:41
  100%.
• 14:42
  And I think people forget that.
• 14:44
  100%.
• 14:45
  And especially you said, like, you got married so young.
• 14:47
  You also got married really young.
• 14:49
  21.
• 14:49
  And I think when you're in your early 20s,
• 14:52
  I was also 20 when I got married,
• 14:55
  when you're early 20s,
• 14:56
  you just came from your parents' house.
• 14:58
  So it's still this, like, huge weight on you of,
• 15:02
  oh, I don't want to disappoint my mommy and daddy.
• 15:05
  And you're, but you're an adult and you have to be an adult if you're willing to get married.
• 15:09
  And I think that that's where a lot of the downfall is.
• 15:12
  Yeah.
• 15:12
  I think it even started with like our wedding.
• 15:14
  Like, to be honest, like we didn't want a wedding.
• 15:16
  We didn't even want a wedding.
• 15:17
  We were just so done with it.
• 15:19
  She had this like mega, mega thing her first time.
• 15:22
  I had a thousand people at my first wedding at the Chlapa.
• 15:25
  Like it was, we both had these mega weddings that like we both knew nobody at.
• 15:29
  And we were just like, you know what?
• 15:30
  We're not interested.
• 15:31
  Waste of money.
• 15:32
  We don't want it.
• 15:33
  It was a nice party though.
• 15:34
  Okay.
• 15:35
  Okay, very nice.
• 15:36
  I'm sure it was a very nice party.
• 15:37
  It was a very nice party.
• 15:38
  How were the pictures?
• 15:38
  Because, like, that's always important.
• 15:39
  So do you know what I did with my album?
• 15:40
  Tell me.
• 15:41
  I gave it back to the photographer.
• 15:43
  To use as a sample?
• 15:44
  To use as a sample.
• 15:46
  And this is what your marriage could look like.
• 15:49
  Beware.
• 15:50
  It could look like it.
• 15:51
  But, yeah, even, like, for the wedding, like, we really didn't care.
• 15:54
  We didn't want much.
• 15:56
  We were coerced into making one anyways.
• 15:58
  We would have gone to a restaurant.
• 15:59
  I think everybody's parents wanted it more than us.
• 16:02
  So we begrudgingly did one here in Brickell, in the clubhouse.
• 16:07
  It was nice.
• 16:07
  Eight people.
• 16:09
  And I think we started off on that foot.
• 16:11
  Like, no, we're not inviting all the second cousins that I haven't ever spoken to.
• 16:16
  I'm not inviting this cousin that I've spoken to once in the last 12 years.
• 16:21
  I'm just not doing it.
• 16:23
  I'm sorry, Mom.
• 16:24
  I know it's upsetting to you, but I'm going to invite who I want there.
• 16:29
  And I think we started off our relationship on that foot.
• 16:31
  That's just like, and like, we're paying for the wedding ourselves.
• 16:34
  Like when we started it that way, like, Hey, we're adults.
• 16:37
  We're going to choose what we want.
• 16:39
  And so because we were, you know, 10 years out, I was 10 years out from my first marriage
• 16:44
  or even more.
• 16:45
  I was, you had the confidence to just be like, actually, we're going to do what we want to
• 16:49
  do.
• 16:50
  We love you.
• 16:50
  We want you to be involved.
• 16:51
  We want you to come, but like, we're going to make our own path.
• 16:54
  We're going to make our own life.
• 16:55
  And sometimes that means you're not going to be thrilled with where we decide to go
• 16:59
  for Pesach or not go or do or come and visit.
• 17:03
  And it's not going to be exactly what society thinks is appropriate or what you should do.
• 17:09
  We're going to do what works for us and our relationship because we're building our own
• 17:13
  bias.
• 17:14
  There you go.
• 17:15
  I'm in.
• 17:15
  I'm in.
• 17:15
  I'm in.
• 17:17
  I do think, though, on top of all of this, that's a huge part of growing up is establishing
• 17:27
  autonomy and recognizing like, oh, I'm allowed to decide hushcuffically where I want to be.
• 17:33
  I'm allowed to decide where I want to be in my relationship and I'm allowed to decide
• 17:37
  where I want to be in business.
• 17:38
  And I think because we get married so early and because we are expected to like have our
• 17:45
  life planned out for us at 21 years old or 20 years old, there's a lot more failure than
• 17:55
  success, not in relationships only, but in business, in all of these things.
• 17:59
  And we kind of hide that.
• 18:02
  Yeah.
• 18:02
  I think that part of, there's beauty in our religion and our community, but there is also
• 18:10
  this idea that if you don't have it figured out, you're a loser.
• 18:15
  And so most people hide the fact
• 18:17
  that they're struggling or they don't know what they want to do or who they want to be.
• 18:21
  And I
• 18:23
  think that it's to the detriment of our kids and our community.
• 18:28
  Because if we just said,
• 18:30
  no judgment, figure it out.
• 18:32
  How many businesses have you started and stopped or picked a new one
• 18:38
  and figured out something else?
• 18:40
  I can't even count.
• 18:41
  Every day it's a new one.
• 18:42
  Okay.
• 18:43
  But- He has an idea every morning.
• 18:45
  I have an idea.
• 18:45
  I have an idea.
• 18:47
  But that's where growth comes.
• 18:49
  Yeah.
• 18:50
  Okay.
• 18:50
  It's because I don't want to fold the laundry.
• 18:52
  by the way agreed 100 that is where a housekeeper comes in that's what i say but she doesn't like
• 19:00
  the housekeeper in the house we don't have a housekeeper every single day oh so you want her
• 19:04
  to do other things i get that no it's just sometimes i need to do another load of laundry
• 19:09
  i have no problem folding it but the moment i ask him to put it away in whatever drawer
• 19:14
  that he finds the room because he has a million drawers in our apartment i don't know what goes
• 19:18
  wear anymore and I tell him to put it away.
• 19:22
  He finds
• 19:22
  an excuse to not put it away for two weeks.
• 19:25
  You know I charge a lot of money
• 19:27
  to deal with problems just like this.
• 19:29
  I'll give you my business card.
• 19:30
  By the way, this is our
• 19:30
  first marriage counseling.
• 19:33
  Live for you people.
• 19:35
  You don't need counseling.
• 19:36
  You just need to listen to me.
• 19:37
  By the way, I think that works.
• 19:39
  And for the record, every single time
• 19:41
  he gets into a kerfuffle or something
• 19:43
  and I tell him like
• 19:45
  you should do X, Y, and Z.
• 19:46
  I'm always right.
• 19:48
  I'm always right.
• 19:49
  Women's intuition.
• 19:50
  I understand, but I think what...
• 19:52
  It pisses me off.
• 19:53
  Maybe you can help.
• 19:55
  He wouldn't have half the service he has.
• 19:56
  I know, but that's part of him learning from his mistakes.
• 19:59
  He's 37 years old.
• 20:01
  Learn.
• 20:03
  Okay, well, maybe you can help this.
• 20:08
  Okay, she can tell me something,
• 20:10
  but for some reason, the way she says it,
• 20:13
  it's just not penetrating.
• 20:15
  But someone else will say basically the same thing, but in man speak.
• 20:19
  And it's like, oh, my God, did you hear what this guy said to me?
• 20:22
  And then she comes back and she's like, I've been saying that to you for years.
• 20:25
  Okay, so in my household, when I was growing up, my mother used to call it, if you've heard of white noise, this is wife noise.
• 20:34
  Okay?
• 20:35
  Where you can't actually hear it.
• 20:37
  Alexa, play wife noise.
• 20:38
  Play wife noise.
• 20:39
  You can't actually hear it.
• 20:42
  Exactly.
• 20:43
  And that's why you can't hear it.
• 20:44
  It's like the Charlie Brown, the teacher in the background.
• 20:47
  Exactly.
• 20:48
  You can't hear it.
• 20:49
  But if somebody else says it, it's like, oh, my God.
• 20:53
  Finally, it clicks.
• 20:55
  Okay.
• 20:56
  It's exhausting.
• 20:57
  You are also a serial entrepreneur, I would say.
• 21:02
  What do you mean?
• 21:04
  Fashioned, then real estate, and now queen of podcasting.
• 21:07
  Okay.
• 21:08
  Okay.
• 21:08
  How did we get to the podcast?
• 21:10
  is really, like, these trajectories
• 21:12
  don't seem to necessarily align,
• 21:15
  but you got there.
• 21:16
  So the podcast thing was mostly Zoli.
• 21:19
  Duh, obviously.
• 21:20
  I mean, listen, when you live with a star,
• 21:22
  okay, my job is to make people, like,
• 21:26
  like, famous.
• 21:27
  Not famous, but, like, to get people views.
• 21:29
  And when I live with someone who I know,
• 21:32
  if I just was wearing meta-ray bands
• 21:34
  and recording all day long,
• 21:35
  she would have a billion views a month.
• 21:37
  Like, the things she says are so funny
• 21:40
  all the time.
• 21:41
  Half of the stuff we can never
• 21:42
  put out because they're just completely
• 21:44
  inappropriate.
• 21:45
  But
• 21:46
  I'm like begging her.
• 21:48
  I'm like, please start a podcast.
• 21:50
  Please start
• 21:50
  a podcast.
• 21:51
  Please start a podcast.
• 21:51
  And she's like, no, no,
• 21:52
  no, I don't need it.
• 21:53
  I don't need it.
• 21:53
  I don't need it.
• 21:54
  And then one day I came up with the name.
• 21:56
  And then the name was like, alright.
• 21:57
  Call her Tati.
• 21:59
  And we're like, oh my god, we have
• 22:00
  to do it.
• 22:01
  We recorded the first episode.
• 22:03
  As a pilot, we didn't even think
• 22:04
  it would be a thing.
• 22:05
  Because like, I have
• 22:06
  a production company.
• 22:07
  I know how to make this stuff.
• 22:09
  I have a whole team behind it
• 22:10
  and so I said let's do one
• 22:12
  let's see how it goes
• 22:14
  and the response was crazy
• 22:16
  I think our first clip we got like
• 22:18
  on a brand new account got like 50,000 views
• 22:20
  or something like that
• 22:21
  and we're just like okay
• 22:23
  but I also don't take it too seriously
• 22:25
  I think that's also important
• 22:29
  it's not your bread and butter
• 22:30
  but it's your fun creative outlet
• 22:32
  which is huge
• 22:33
  because on the other hand we have you
• 22:35
  who literally this is your bread and butter
• 22:38
  and you're creating short form media,
• 22:40
  you're like real media.
• 22:41
  All of these things are you putting every effort
• 22:46
  into making something successful.
• 22:48
  You've had so many businesses.
• 22:50
  What has been the biggest regret
• 22:53
  and the biggest success you can say?
• 22:55
  The biggest regret in terms of like actual businesses
• 22:59
  or like decisions in the business?
• 23:01
  Either.
• 23:02
  You take it how you would like it.
• 23:04
  I can only imagine.
• 23:06
  I will say my biggest regret in business is not knowing when to pull the plug on a person or thing or activity sooner.
• 23:19
  You know, I am, I'm a very, I like to tell myself I'm a nice guy.
• 23:25
  She doesn't think so.
• 23:26
  No, no, no, no.
• 23:26
  I think you're too nice sometimes.
• 23:27
  I'm too nice.
• 23:28
  Okay.
• 23:29
  That's what she texted me the other day.
• 23:30
  She literally said to me, see, I'm not nice.
• 23:33
  Zully is too nice.
• 23:34
  So facts.
• 23:36
  I don't know.
• 23:37
  Maybe it's a lot of empathy.
• 23:38
  I don't know.
• 23:39
  But, like, I remember the first startup I had, which was an ed tech startup.
• 23:44
  We had this one kid working for us, and he was, like, our sales guy.
• 23:47
  And the kid wasn't producing at all.
• 23:49
  He was just – and it was so bad.
• 23:52
  Like, I would – you know, like, when you walk into a room with someone, you're like, oh, I have to deal with it.
• 23:56
  Yes.
• 23:56
  Like, you get the cringe.
• 23:57
  Yes, I absolutely do.
• 23:58
  Right.
• 23:59
  And I'm actually paying this kid.
• 24:01
  And I was like, I can't just fire this kid.
• 24:04
  We moved him across.
• 24:05
  the country we whatever and like i let it sit for six months and the moment we fired him my it was
• 24:13
  like did you feel like that when you got out of your divorce thank god oh my god when i when i
• 24:19
  oh i don't know if we could say this but when i was okay let me let me paint a picture for you
• 24:26
  about like where i was in life at my divorce so i was 31 um i had um basically it was like right
• 24:36
  around the time of covid like right before i basically like loaned all my money to the company
• 24:42
  company was like the company being wave car wave car which was featured on shark tank yeah
• 24:47
  featured on shark tank did a deal but we were in between funding grounds whatever i'm i'm like
• 24:52
  personally bankrolling the company at this point um i am i'm trying to like figure my stuff out
• 24:57
  we're getting investment we're getting investment we're getting investment by the way then covet
• 25:01
  happened so thank you very much um i've been entrepreneur so i get it you know you know the
• 25:06
  seasons it was one of those seasons and i literally was i had basically nothing i moved into my
• 25:15
  parents house and i was the happiest i've ever been in my life and rabba looks at me and she's
• 25:23
  like how did you not kill yourself like it was it like on paper i was a i was a loser i was a huge
• 25:31
  loser but inside it was the happiest time of life and the best part about that time in my life
• 25:38
  was that literally like two months after we or like a month after i gave the get something like
• 25:44
  that, we started dating.
• 25:46
  And if that isn't the biggest bone God threw me in my life,
• 25:50
  I don't know what is.
• 25:51
  But that was honestly, it was like the worst of times, but it was the best
• 25:55
  of times.
• 25:56
  I think that when you make a choice and you actually stick to something that somebody
• 26:03
  said something to me in regards to like starting the podcast, they said it should be easy if it's
• 26:08
  something that you really want to do.
• 26:10
  And I think that to me, that's what it feels like.
• 26:13
  Like
• 26:14
  this was something you really wanted and you needed to do.
• 26:18
  And it was easy.
• 26:19
  You got divorced,
• 26:21
  you met Chava, you started new companies.
• 26:23
  And that doesn't mean that doesn't come with challenges.
• 26:25
  It just means that you feel at peace with the way things are going.
• 26:31
  Yeah.
• 26:31
  A hundred percent.
• 26:33
  Can we talk about religion or is that a no-go?
• 26:35
  We can talk about it.
• 26:36
  Okay.
• 26:37
  You grew up in Salkov.
• 26:38
  You grew up South Shore.
• 26:40
  For those of you that don't know,
• 26:41
  that's to the right of modern.
• 26:45
  Not even modern.
• 26:46
  I know.
• 26:46
  I was just being nice.
• 26:47
  I was being kind to you.
• 26:48
  It's very right wing.
• 26:50
  Very right wing.
• 26:50
  Modern doesn't even...
• 26:51
  But Los Angeles-based Yakov is different.
• 26:54
  It's from...
• 26:55
  It's from more than a lot of other schools in New York.
• 26:57
  Really?
• 26:58
  You think so?
• 26:59
  I had to wear stockings.
• 27:00
  I had a tzinias button.
• 27:01
  You spoke to a boy.
• 27:02
  I remember you guys were wearing stripes.
• 27:03
  You couldn't go,
• 27:04
  no, we have the navy skirt or gray skirt
• 27:07
  with the light blue button down.
• 27:09
  Yes.
• 27:09
  That was Chayamushka was striped.
• 27:11
  Yeah, chaymushka is the green skirt.
• 27:13
  But they had striped shirt.
• 27:14
  Yes.
• 27:14
  See?
• 27:15
  I think so.
• 27:15
  Yeah, they did.
• 27:16
  Eula had, like, patterned.
• 27:18
  We were really fun.
• 27:19
  But I thought Eula had also the gray short skirts.
• 27:22
  Okay.
• 27:23
  Short because we rolled them up every single day.
• 27:25
  No, we had to have our skirts four inches below our knee.
• 27:29
  And I swear to God, if they were literally under the knee, they'd make you change or go home.
• 27:34
  Okay.
• 27:35
  So you grew up this way, right?
• 27:37
  So what's interesting is I think my parents just sent me to that school.
• 27:40
  But like I didn't always wear like such long skirts all the time.
• 27:44
  Like I didn't have to wear stockings, you know, out outside of school.
• 27:49
  Like we wore black stockings every single day, even if it was 95 degrees outside.
• 27:53
  That wasn't an option.
• 27:55
  But I mean, I wasn't like that per se at home.
• 27:59
  OK, so if you had to show up to your house today, OK, both of you, would it be more or
• 28:08
  less aligned than when you were growing up?
• 28:11
  Well, I think I have changed just like simple dress,
• 28:18
  like more.
• 28:19
  Oh, I'm not talking even dressing.
• 28:21
  I'm talking understanding your position in Judaism.
• 28:26
  I know who I am religiously because I have been every single aspect on the spectrum here.
• 28:34
  I have
• 28:35
  been snood wearing, shaitel wearing.
• 28:38
  I have been emotionally disconnected while still like praying
• 28:42
  three times a day.
• 28:44
  I have done all the work and all the loss and all the things to finally have
• 28:49
  a real connection with God that I really truly cherish and value.
• 28:55
  Do you feel like you've
• 28:57
  reinvented your relationship with God along with your relationship with your significant other and
• 29:06
  your businesses?
• 29:10
  You want to go first on this one?
• 29:12
  Well, I'll say that I've also been through
• 29:15
  like all the phases, right?
• 29:17
  And I've experienced it all and I've seen it all.
• 29:19
  But I've always been
• 29:20
  pretty consistent aside from that like one black cat phase in high school.
• 29:23
  I've always been pretty
• 29:24
  like middle of the road type of thing which which is how i've been most of my life but what i will
• 29:30
  say is when i moved out of like a mainstream jewish community when i moved out i became a lot
• 29:37
  more spiritual i wouldn't say more religious but more spiritual like i live in brickell there's not
• 29:41
  a lot of jewish families here there's one kosher restaurant there's like we have like a little tiny
• 29:46
  kosher section in publics i go to shul seven times a week okay i'm in shul every single morning i am
• 29:53
  like i am the the gabai that the rabbis give the keys to when i walk when when i go away i
• 30:00
  when they go away i i have i have such a closer relationship to god and it's very funny like i
• 30:08
  it's kind of like the the phenomenon it's like israelis aren't religious when they live in israel
• 30:12
  but when they move will move like to like vietnam or something they're running the minion yeah
• 30:17
  exactly so it's sort of like that so i don't know exactly what it is but i would say that
• 30:22
  I found a great place
• 30:24
  where I'm very comfortable in
• 30:26
  and I say this to my rabbis all the time
• 30:29
  they'll point something out to me
• 30:30
  Zuly you know you should, I'll be like rabbis
• 30:32
  I'm comfortable for the reasons
• 30:35
  in which I will burn at this point
• 30:36
  like if it happens
• 30:38
  okay, and I say the same thing
• 30:40
  to my mother, like ma
• 30:42
  I am
• 30:44
  at the level that I choose to be
• 30:47
  and you know what
• 30:48
  I'm not calling anyone out
• 30:50
  specifically now but
• 30:52
  everyone changes throughout their life.
• 30:55
  And just because I'm not aligned to where you are at this point in life,
• 30:59
  like, babe, like, let's rewind the clock.
• 31:03
  Let's look at some pictures from 30 years ago, okay?
• 31:05
  Well, what was standard 30 years ago is very different than what is standard today.
• 31:10
  Yeah.
• 31:10
  But the tie-dye doesn't change.
• 31:12
  It's so interesting that you say that.
• 31:16
  it's interesting you say that because
• 31:18
  I really do think that
• 31:20
  we have such a
• 31:21
  warped sentence because
• 31:23
  we're in a vacuum
• 31:26
  and I think that we've
• 31:28
  made it, it's either all or
• 31:29
  nothing, I'm not going to lie to you, I saw a clip
• 31:31
  that really triggered me today
• 31:33
  I don't know if you've seen it, Clappy
• 31:36
  like had
• 31:38
  some Rebetson, Lubavitch Rebetson
• 31:40
  Clappy's the Chabad guy
• 31:41
  he's like, oh he's yelling
• 31:42
  Take your wives on fancy trips, on fancy vacations.
• 31:45
  Get therapy.
• 31:46
  Listen to him.
• 31:48
  Okay.
• 31:48
  I do.
• 31:49
  Take him to therapy and fancy trips because, honestly, I need to make money.
• 31:53
  So what did he say?
• 31:55
  He didn't say it.
• 31:55
  He had this Reviton who apparently is very famous.
• 31:58
  She's never fought with her husband before.
• 32:01
  Neither have we.
• 32:02
  She's getting abused.
• 32:03
  She's getting abused.
• 32:03
  No.
• 32:04
  She's a very famous Reviton in the Lodge community and I'm sure very well respected.
• 32:09
  So I only saw a clip.
• 32:10
  I did not watch the whole podcast, so I want to just make that very clear.
• 32:13
  But she said, I don't understand why you can't just wear an inch shorter of a sleeve.
• 32:19
  Like, it shouldn't be a thing.
• 32:20
  Like, it's not, why can't you follow, it really bothers me when people don't follow halacha.
• 32:24
  And I'm thinking to myself, like, I don't get it.
• 32:28
  Isn't that?
• 32:30
  I have a response for that.
• 32:31
  I'm sure you do have a response, so tell me what you would say.
• 32:33
  So what's interesting is, especially for a woman like myself, who I feel like ever since I was a teenager, I've always had certain things that I either did connect with or didn't connect with in Judaism.
• 32:50
  Like when it came to davening, it was like, that's not how I connect to God.
• 32:54
  Like being forced in every day in school at 8.05 a.m. to open up a sitter and pretend I know what I'm saying for 45 minutes.
• 33:02
  It didn't do it for me.
• 33:04
  Um, when women talk about hair covering, I tried it my first marriage.
• 33:08
  It made me miserable.
• 33:10
  And I actually started hating religion because of it.
• 33:12
  I started hating religion for other reasons, too.
• 33:15
  But I got to a point while I was still married to my first husband.
• 33:20
  And I told myself, if I'm going to do something, it's going to make me hate religion completely.
• 33:25
  Is it worth to throw it all away for one thing that sometimes it's easier for me?
• 33:32
  Sometimes it's harder for me.
• 33:33
  Like, I need to pick and choose my battles.
• 33:35
  But at the end of the day, no one else should care that much with what I do with my own self.
• 33:42
  I also think religion is a spectrum, and nobody talks about that online, if I'm going to be honest with you.
• 33:49
  The reason why there's 800 million books of Talmud and interpretations and all of this stuff,
• 33:54
  and I'm not a Rebetzin, but I will say the reason why there are so many interpretations
• 34:00
  is because nobody really knows what God wants.
• 34:03
  And nobody says that out loud.
• 34:05
  Everyone, we can interpret things however we choose to.
• 34:13
  And while I want to follow halacha 100%, but if we're being honest, we all pick and choose.
• 34:21
  I don't care what anybody says, but we all pick and choose.
• 34:24
  Like, I always find it really baffling on how you can have women wearing full sheatels, screwing around with their neighbor's husband.
• 34:34
  But because they dress the part of looking from, everyone assumes and categorizes them as from.
• 34:43
  Or you can have a from couple and the husband is embezzling millions of dollars ending up in Otisville, but he's still from.
• 34:51
  So I think that we all love this external idea of what from is from a really surface, from a real surface level.
• 34:59
  But like that's kind of like where I always felt like it's not authentic.
• 35:06
  And one thing about me is like I'm very authentic.
• 35:08
  Like I'm going to say it how it is.
• 35:10
  I'm not putting on a show for anybody.
• 35:13
  It's not worth it.
• 35:15
  But what's interesting is that it's always the people who put on the biggest shows who have to hide the most.
• 35:25
  Well, there's a reason why people are putting on the show to begin with.
• 35:28
  That's the point.
• 35:29
  I think once I stripped down figuratively and, you know, spiritually.
• 35:36
  Once I stripped it all down, I was able to go, okay, what's real and what am I doing because it looks religious?
• 35:43
  And once I did that, I was like, oh, I can actually have a connection with Hashem that's meaningful.
• 35:49
  And that doesn't mean that I'm doing everything right.
• 35:51
  I am not doing everything right.
• 35:52
  And I acknowledge that.
• 35:54
  But I also know that I am more spiritually connected now than I have ever been in my entire life because I am true to myself and I am honoring the gifts God gave me.
• 36:07
  And I think that that's what people miss.
• 36:09
  I think people really miss the fact that you are given gifts from God and by suppressing that you are saying, screw you.
• 36:19
  Yeah.
• 36:19
  I mean, I remember.
• 36:21
  So going to Chabad here is very refreshing.
• 36:24
  Coming from a very cookie cutter community where everyone has to look the same and dress the same.
• 36:28
  And so Chabad here, you've got the spectrum of ex-Chasidim that haven't been in shul for 20 years to reform people who haven't put on tefillin in their life and everyone in between.
• 36:47
  But the beautiful part is everyone comes to shul, everyone davens, everyone participates.
• 36:50
  I remember I had my kids here one Shabbos, and it was, I think, the first or second time they were in Brickell.
• 36:55
  And it was different for them.
• 36:56
  It was the first time they were in shul and they see people like pulling out their cell phones on Shabbos.
• 37:01
  And so my son says to me, he goes, Daddy, why are they?
• 37:05
  I don't understand.
• 37:06
  They're using their phones on Shabbos, but they're coming to shul.
• 37:10
  So I said, well, let me ask you a question.
• 37:13
  They're obviously not as religious.
• 37:15
  Do you think it's better for them to come to shul and or to not come to shul?
• 37:20
  So he goes, it's better to come to shul.
• 37:22
  I said, OK, so they're on their way.
• 37:24
  They're not the same level as you.
• 37:26
  But that doesn't mean that they're not trying and trying to connect.
• 37:29
  And that's what it is.
• 37:30
  And like, it's a very simple thing.
• 37:32
  It's like everyone's at their level and everyone's on their own journey and everyone's on their own path.
• 37:37
  And everyone is at a different level.
• 37:40
  And like this whole notion of like you all got to look the same and sound the same and do the same.
• 37:45
  And if you don't, you're excommunicated.
• 37:47
  Like I love saying we love living here because it's like there's just enough Jews.
• 37:53
  Just enough for a daily minion.
• 37:55
  that's it
• 37:56
  and that's great
• 37:57
  we're very happy
• 37:58
  so you and I
• 37:58
  grew up in LA
• 38:00
  very different sides
• 38:01
  of the earth
• 38:01
  okay
• 38:02
  where did you grow up
• 38:03
  I grew up in Rancho Park
• 38:04
  you grew up in Hancock Park
• 38:05
  okay
• 38:06
  we just
• 38:07
  it's like Brickell
• 38:08
  it's literally like Brickell
• 38:09
  there's just enough
• 38:10
  for a minion
• 38:11
  and it was a
• 38:11
  Balchuva community
• 38:12
  so like some people
• 38:13
  were literally in Kolel
• 38:15
  and some people
• 38:16
  were driving to Shul
• 38:18
  and I grew up
• 38:19
  with so many
• 38:20
  different types of people
• 38:21
  coming in and out of Shul
• 38:22
  and in and out of my house
• 38:24
  that I sort of, that was always my goal.
• 38:27
  I've always been like, okay, that is what I like.
• 38:30
  And you guys are living that now.
• 38:32
  Now I live in a very cookie cutter community.
• 38:35
  So it's a little different, but I think I've figured out that you can be your own person
• 38:41
  in any place, wherever you go.
• 38:44
  You just have to be confident enough to do what works for you.
• 38:48
  And that takes a lot of growth.
• 38:52
  And I'm kind of wondering for the two of you, since you have reinvented yourself in every aspect of your life, that did you have to grieve anything in order to grow?
• 39:04
  I didn't have to grieve anything to grow.
• 39:07
  There's got to be loss.
• 39:11
  Not really.
• 39:12
  Really?
• 39:13
  No.
• 39:14
  because if I had to grieve something that I would miss,
• 39:20
  that means that I wanted it.
• 39:22
  There's nothing I wanted so badly,
• 39:24
  whether it was acceptance or validation from other people.
• 39:30
  And so, I mean, I've been living,
• 39:32
  when I got divorced, I lived by myself.
• 39:35
  That was probably the best thing I ever did for myself
• 39:38
  because it taught me to make myself be okay with just me.
• 39:43
  And whatever I needed, like, I can get it for myself.
• 39:48
  Not through anybody else.
• 39:49
  Like, the validation, I don't need it through living with a roommate.
• 39:53
  I don't need it through a partner.
• 39:55
  Like, I need the validation through myself.
• 39:57
  So by the time I got to, I guess, meeting Zoli and getting remarried, I've already, like, evolved to a point where it's, like, it was this transitional phase where whatever wasn't meant for me or didn't.
• 40:14
  serve me well, that was ready in the past.
• 40:18
  But it took time.
• 40:20
  But did I have to grieve it?
• 40:22
  No.
• 40:23
  It's an interesting idea because a lot of people, I deal with a lot of people in therapy who are
• 40:29
  like, they have all these traumas, right?
• 40:31
  And all they want to do is rehash the trauma.
• 40:34
  And
• 40:35
  because they feel like in order to move forward, they have to understand it, which to an extent,
• 40:41
  I agree with, but my approach is a little different.
• 40:44
  I truly believe that in order to
• 40:47
  move forward, hashing things out and going back into the trauma again and again and again,
• 40:56
  sometimes it just re-traumatizes you.
• 40:57
  It doesn't fix the problem.
• 40:59
  And I think you're saying the
• 41:00
  same thing.
• 41:01
  You're like, I don't need to grieve it.
• 41:03
  I don't need to grieve it.
• 41:04
  So I kind of love
• 41:05
  that.
• 41:05
  Can I ask you guys a few rapid fire questions?
• 41:07
  Sure.
• 41:07
  Rock and roll.
• 41:08
  Okay.
• 41:09
  Is it ever
• 41:10
  too late to start over?
• 41:11
  No.
• 41:14
  Got it.
• 41:15
  Okay.
• 41:16
  Did divorce ever
• 41:17
  did divorce break you or build you?
• 41:20
  Build.
• 41:20
  Both.
• 41:22
  Okay.
• 41:23
  Do people stay stuck or choose
• 41:25
  to stay stuck?
• 41:27
  Choose.
• 41:27
  Yeah, they're choosing for sure.
• 41:29
  There's no stuck.
• 41:30
  Just stop me
• 41:31
  because Jesus.
• 41:32
  Yeah.
• 41:33
  Is faith something you inherit or something
• 41:36
  you earn?
• 41:39
  I think you earn it
• 41:40
  I think you have to earn that
• 41:41
  I think it's both
• 41:44
  I think there's Masora for a reason
• 41:46
  but I think that in order to own it
• 41:49
  you need to work at it
• 41:52
  what is riskier
• 41:53
  staying the same or starting over
• 41:56
  staying the same
• 41:58
  100%
• 41:59
  I actually think it's harder to stay the same
• 42:00
  if you're like a growth oriented person
• 42:03
  it's so much harder
• 42:05
  which is why most people have to reinvent themselves.
• 42:09
  Okay.
• 42:09
  I have a few listener questions and then I'm going to let you.
• 42:13
  Oh, God.
• 42:13
  Were they NGLs?
• 42:14
  Were they juicy?
• 42:15
  No.
• 42:16
  No, we don't do knock and alive because we –
• 42:19
  because Lord knows what they're going to ask.
• 42:21
  No, it's so dangerous.
• 42:23
  The things that I've gotten, it's mean.
• 42:25
  Mean.
• 42:25
  Mean?
• 42:26
  I like mean.
• 42:27
  No, no, no.
• 42:28
  This is not like you and me kind of mean, like where we're funny and mean.
• 42:31
  This is just like I hate you.
• 42:33
  You're a psycho.
• 42:34
  I hate you.
• 42:35
  Yeah, but if people don't express that, you're not doing anything.
• 42:39
  Exactly.
• 42:39
  Like, I have to push the boundaries a little bit.
• 42:41
  Okay.
• 42:42
  A hater is just a fan spelled wrong.
• 42:46
  Okay.
• 42:47
  I feel like I've built a life that doesn't fit me anymore.
• 42:50
  How do I begin to pivot?
• 42:53
  I need more context than that.
• 42:55
  Come on, girl.
• 42:56
  Like, you got married, had kids, now it's, like, not working out for you.
• 43:00
  Go see a therapist.
• 43:01
  Go see Julia.
• 43:03
  Perfect.
• 43:04
  Okay.
• 43:05
  somebody else wrote, how do I know if I'm evolving or just running away from something?
• 43:10
  You answer that.
• 43:11
  Sometimes you are running away from something and that's okay.
• 43:14
  That you're not meant to be like, I think something that people don't realize is not
• 43:19
  everyone in your life is meant to be there for your entire life.
• 43:22
  And that's okay.
• 43:23
  And that comes
• 43:24
  to with that's friends, that's family, that's business relationships.
• 43:29
  Not everyone is meant
• 43:30
  to be in your life from zero to 120.
• 43:33
  It's just not the way it works.
• 43:35
  The friends that you have
• 43:36
  at 20 are not going to be the friends you have at 30 and are definitely not going to be the friends
• 43:40
  you have at 40.
• 43:41
  It's just not how life works.
• 43:43
  I think people forget that there's stages of life.
• 43:45
  There's a reason why you call it that.
• 43:48
  And it's so true, this idea of like, you are cycling through
• 43:54
  people and things that doesn't make it less important, right?
• 43:58
  Like your first relationships
• 43:59
  that you had and your marriages, they were important to get you to where you are now.
• 44:03
  Those were beautiful things in the moment or not so beautiful things in order to create
• 44:08
  you and this.
• 44:09
  So I think that that is the main, like the guts of it all.
• 44:17
  Okay.
• 44:18
  I'm scared to start over because of what people will say.
• 44:21
  How do I move past that?
• 44:23
  Honestly, can I be really like...
• 44:25
  Do it blunt.
• 44:26
  Get over yourself.
• 44:27
  people don't think about you as much
• 44:30
  as you think they think about you.
• 44:32
  Nobody really cares.
• 44:34
  You know what people care about?
• 44:35
  They hear
• 44:35
  Hawk.
• 44:36
  Oh, you heard?
• 44:37
  She's
• 44:38
  getting separated.
• 44:39
  She's getting divorced.
• 44:39
  Two weeks later, you're old news.
• 44:41
  Nobody cares.
• 44:42
  Exactly.
• 44:42
  So
• 44:44
  sometimes you gotta take a deep breath.
• 44:46
  Like, let people go
• 44:47
  blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 44:48
  And then two weeks later, everybody forgets
• 44:49
  about you.
• 44:50
  Like, it's really not that big of a deal.
• 44:52
  Think about the Pesos drama, right?
• 44:53
  With Morocco.
• 44:54
  Like, everyone, it was hot
• 44:55
  and heavy.
• 44:56
  I literally forgot about that already.
• 44:57
  Exactly!
• 44:57
  It was hot and heavy and then nobody, that's an aisle.
• 45:00
  Nobody cares anymore.
• 45:00
  No.
• 45:01
  It's done.
• 45:01
  Okay.
• 45:03
  Last one.
• 45:03
  How do you rebuild confidence after a major life fail?
• 45:09
  How do you rebuild confidence?
• 45:10
  I think you just got to, I mean, at least for me, you got to have sort of like delusional confidence.
• 45:16
  I think if you, I think if you just sort of sit there and think about, oh my God, what's everyone going to think about me?
• 45:23
  Like who gives a crap?
• 45:25
  Like what's everyone going to think about you?
• 45:27
  You are your own person, and what one person thinks about you is not the same as what the other person thinks about you.
• 45:34
  You are a collection of electric signals in a bunch of random people's gray matter brains.
• 45:41
  Who cares?
• 45:42
  You're really going to live your life for what their brain thinks of you?
• 45:47
  That's what you're walking around thinking about?
• 45:49
  Get over yourself.
• 45:51
  You guys are a match made in heaven with your get over yourself.
• 45:54
  I think that's actually what like really helps us like really jive as a couple is just we just don't like we just do our thing.
• 46:02
  And if you don't like it, you don't have to unsubscribe.
• 46:08
  I think that that's a lot harder for people to understand in themselves.
• 46:13
  Whereas like you seems like you guys have done the work and recognize that like, OK, not everyone is going to like me.
• 46:20
  Not everyone.
• 46:21
  I am not everyone's cup of tea.
• 46:23
  I have not been a lot of people's cup of tea in my life.
• 46:27
  And shocker, right?
• 46:29
  Are you shocked by that?
• 46:31
  I am aware.
• 46:32
  Oh, he is acutely aware of certain situations.
• 46:37
  But I do think ultimately the people you are supposed to be with, they come out of the woodwork.
• 46:43
  They connect.
• 46:44
  And like a magnet, you will find each other.
• 46:47
  Yeah.
• 46:48
  it's kind of like you know you know like there's this like meme about a business owner it's like
• 46:54
  when you're a couple it's like when you're first when you're first in a business and like something
• 46:58
  bad happens you're like oh my god oh my god and then it's like when you're five years in it's
• 47:02
  just like you're just sitting back you're just like uh-huh like nothing nothing can break you
• 47:08
  anymore like we've been through such crap in our lives like we've been the talk of the town we've
• 47:13
  been we've been through the divorces we've been through this we've been through that like we've
• 47:19
  done it all so like at this point it's like okay okay and what else you got so i mean sometimes
• 47:27
  you kind of got to go through you got to go through the shit to just become better and you
• 47:33
  know either fortunately or unfortunately i feel like we've both gone through our our very unique
• 47:38
  journeys and so at this point it's just like and there's not much you can do to break this yeah
• 47:44
  I think that that's a perfect place to end because I truly believe that nobody talks about how hard it is to change, but they also don't talk about how rewarding it is once you get there.
• 47:56
  It's very liberating.
• 47:58
  Yeah.
• 47:58
  And I think that you guys are looking back at your previous self from a place where you're happy, confident, and successful.
• 48:08
  And that's something to admire.
• 48:10
  So thank you guys for being here.
• 48:12
  I really appreciate it.
• 48:13
  And it's okay to outgrow who you were because sometimes that's where you find the best version of yourself.
• 48:21
  Damn, she's good.