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All Aboard? When unions, management, and Congress dodged a nationwide rail strike. · Thinking Transportation: Engaging Conversations about Transportation Innovations

• 0:14
  Bernie Fette (host): Hello.
• 0:15
  Bernie Fette (host): This is Thinking Transportation-- conversations about how we get ourselves and the things we need from point A to point B, and what may happen along the way.
• 0:28
  Bernie Fette (host): I'm Bernie Fette with the Texas A&M Transportation Institute.
• 0:33
  Bernie Fette (host): News of a nationwide strike by rail workers may have come as a surprise to those of us who thought the dispute was behind us earlier in the year.
• 0:42
  Bernie Fette (host): So when a handful of unions rejected a tentative deal, worries over a walkout immediately began to threaten fragile supply chains just as the holiday shopping season was moving into high gear.
• 0:57
  Bernie Fette (host): Allan Rutter is a senior research scientist and an expert in freight movement, especially the freight that moves on railroad tracks.
• 1:06
  Bernie Fette (host): He's with us for this episode to help us understand how things almost reached a boiling point, where we are now in the story, and what may lie ahead.
• 1:17
  Bernie Fette (host): Welcome, Allan.
• 1:18
  Bernie Fette (host): Thanks for joining our conversation today.
• 1:20
  Allan Rutter (guest): Happy to do it, Bernie.
• 1:23
  Bernie Fette: So we're here to talk about the nationwide railroad strike that almost happened.
• 1:29
  Allan Rutter: Yes.
• 1:30
  Bernie Fette: It seems that the pot had been simmering for quite a while before it got to the boiling point, or close to the boiling point, and some people would say, I think, that it did actually reach that point.
• 1:40
  Bernie Fette: So how did we get there?
• 1:42
  Allan Rutter: Well, it's a long story.
• 1:44
  Allan Rutter: This particular contract negotiation had been stirring around unresolved since before COVID happened.
• 1:53
  Allan Rutter: I think the contract that these guys were all under expired sometime in 2020.
• 1:59
  Allan Rutter: COVID comes in and really inhibits the ability for the parties, the rail labor, and the railroads themselves who negotiate through intermediaries.
• 2:11
  Allan Rutter: They were unable to do this face-to-face, and that's really the best way for this kind of thing to be resolved.
• 2:17
  Bernie Fette: Certainly.
• 2:18
  Bernie Fette: Yeah.
• 2:19
  Allan Rutter: So this really kind of comes to a head earlier this year about March or so, when the National Mediation Board, an actual federal agency with three Senate-confirmed people released the parties, which is a formal way of saying that the railroads and the rail labor who had been talking with each other were no longer going to formally mediate through the National Mediation Board.
• 2:47
  Allan Rutter: And then under the 1926 Railway Labor Act, which applies to railroads and to commercial aviation, that set into effect a whole series of deadlines, cooling off periods, which got us to the point where we were a little over a week ago.
• 3:08
  Bernie Fette: So that really changed the rules of the game kind of in midstream, huh?
• 3:11
  Allan Rutter: It accelerated things.
• 3:13
  Bernie Fette: I see.
• 3:13
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 3:15
  Allan Rutter: It was interesting given that as this was coming up for Congressional consideration, a number of parties both on the, the legislative side and on the rail labor were like, why can't people talk this out amongst themselves?
• 3:29
  Allan Rutter: Well, they were kind of doing that for a while.
• 3:31
  Allan Rutter: The mediation board's action put this into, I mean, to overuse a rail metaphor, this train was on that track and that's where it was going.
• 3:42
  Bernie Fette: You were talking about the progression of the talks, and I think that there was a tentative agreement that happened several months ago that was brokered by the White House.
• 3:54
  Allan Rutter: Yes.
• 3:55
  Allan Rutter: So after the National Mediation Board released the parties, the President created, which he is allowed to do or authorized to do under the Railway Labor Act, a presidential emergency board, A PEB-- PEB 250-- they came up with their set of recommendations sometime in August.
• 4:16
  Allan Rutter: And it was one of those cooling o ff periods where there was a possibility of a strike that the administration acting through Secretary Buttigieg of the Department of Transportation, and Marty Walsh, the Secretary of Labor, a former union guy and mayor from Boston, they brokered a deal between the railroads and the labor that is based on that PEB 250 with a couple of sweeteners, some additional lifestyle working condition-related stuff that goes beyond the sort of salaries and benefits kind of discussion that was in the PEB.
• 4:54
  Allan Rutter: So they worked out a deal o n September 15th, that's what was sent back to all the rail unions, all 12 of them.
• 5:02
  Allan Rutter: And ultimately eight of those unions said, yes, we're ready to go.
• 5:06
  Allan Rutter: And four of them said, n ah, that's not good enough.
• 5:09
  Bernie Fette: And this isn't necessarily a democracy we're talking about.
• 5:12
  Bernie Fette: Just because there was a majority vote doesn't mean that it was a done deal.
• 5:17
  Allan Rutter: Yes.
• 5:17
  Allan Rutter: So it's not so much that eight unions are in and four are out, so everybody wins.
• 5:23
  Allan Rutter: And it's really, all of those votes were close.
• 5:26
  Allan Rutter: I think none of'em were more than sort of 51, 53.
• 5:31
  Allan Rutter: It was a very closely run thing.
• 5:33
  Allan Rutter: But you know, I think we have to understand the effects of COVID on rail labor as a whole, that these guys were feeling sort of hard pressed and not really recognized.
• 5:46
  Allan Rutter: And so a lot of their members were like, nah, this, this isn't working for us and we don't feel appreciated.
• 5:53
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 5:53
  Bernie Fette: And then we get to the point where Congress enters stage left, stage right.
• 5:59
  Bernie Fette: And in a lot of public opinion polls that we see from time to time, the United States Congress does not typically get high marks for getting things done-- fairly or unfairly accused.
• 6:10
  Bernie Fette: But in this particular case, things did seem to happen pretty quickly.
• 6:16
  Bernie Fette: A bill was passed, quickly signed by the President, and viola! No rail strike.
• 6:21
  Allan Rutter: It's really remarkable.
• 6:22
  Allan Rutter: I mean, uh, a lot of the discussion of this as the labor unions were voting on this back in October, most rail industry observers pointed to the possibility of Congressional action as not being guaranteed, given the relative polarization of the parties.
• 6:39
  Allan Rutter: There was a thought that, you know, you can't really depend on Congress to agree to this really quickly so that a strike was going to be possible.
• 6:48
  Allan Rutter: That the fact is that the President stepped in and said,"Hey, all things considered, I would rather we not be in this position, but we cannot have a strike happen." The House introduces a resolution and votes it out.
• 7:01
  Allan Rutter: And then the Senate does the very same thing.
• 7:04
  Allan Rutter: So, you know, to go from the President saying, this ought to happen to both houses saying yes, there shouldn't be a strike, and the deal that you guys executed on September 15th, that's the deal.
• 7:17
  Allan Rutter: So it's remarkably quick and really bipartisan the votes margins in both the House and Senate were pretty strong.
• 7:27
  Bernie Fette: Why was this dispute any different in terms of the Congressional action?
• 7:31
  Bernie Fette: Was it just the fact that it was driven so much by urgency?
• 7:35
  Allan Rutter: Well, one, most collective bargaining things don't get resolved by Congress.
• 7:41
  Allan Rutter: And that's the function of this Railway Labor Act.
• 7:44
  Allan Rutter: In 1926, Congress decided that the railroads were too important to the economy and to the people they serve.
• 7:52
  Allan Rutter: And of course, consider back in 1926, the railroads were the means by which most people got around between cities.
• 7:59
  Allan Rutter: And most freight was being moved by rail.
• 8:02
  Allan Rutter: So it, you know, incredibly critical to the economy, both from a passenger and a freight standpoint.
• 8:07
  Allan Rutter: They said in this condition or in this instance the the overall collective bargaining between parties, that's too important to just leave them up to themselves.
• 8:20
  Allan Rutter: So we create this structure for a Presidential Emergency Board and for possible Congressional action.
• 8:27
  Allan Rutter: Now, Congress could have said, okay, guys, go back to the bargaining table.
• 8:32
  Allan Rutter: Mm-hmm.
• 8:32
  Allan Rutter: , they could have said, we send you guys to mandatory arbitration.
• 8:37
  Allan Rutter: But given the fact that the president and his cabinet had negotiated a deal back in September, they had something really on the table.
• 8:46
  Allan Rutter: And so they said, this is the deal.
• 8:48
  Allan Rutter: That's what's gonna happen.
• 8:49
  Bernie Fette: And they could have also, I think, imposed another 90-day cooling off period as I understand it.
• 8:54
  Bernie Fette: But they chose, no, let's get this done now.
• 8:57
  Allan Rutter: Yeah.
• 8:58
  Allan Rutter: I think for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is the reduction in uncertainty.
• 9:05
  Allan Rutter: Uh, and I think there were also some indications that it wasn't like protracted negotiations were gonna resolve the main issues and sticking points.
• 9:15
  Allan Rutter: I think it became pretty clear that rail labor was really concerned about the lack of paid sick leave, which is something they had asked for.
• 9:25
  Allan Rutter: The Presidential Emergency Board considered it and said, you know, that's really more for a grievance and arbitration thing between rail labor and the individual railroads.
• 9:37
  Allan Rutter: But the rail labor guys were like, listen, we would like two weeks of paid sick leave.
• 9:42
  Allan Rutter: And the railroads were like, nah, we're not gonna do that.
• 9:45
  Allan Rutter: You know, it's interesting if you consider that about 75 percent of the private sector workforce gets paid sick leave as a benefit.
• 9:54
  Allan Rutter: But there's an awful lot of parts of that private workforce that don't, and not the least of which are independent operators who are truckers, like the guys who pick up the containers from the ports and take them to the railroads.
• 10:07
  Allan Rutter: Those guys don't get paid sick leave either.
• 10:09
  Bernie Fette: Right.
• 10:11
  Bernie Fette: And, and you're talking about some of the particulars of what was negotiated and what wasn't negotiated, which makes me wonder on the surface, looking at the law that that was invoked to resolve the dispute.
• 10:23
  Bernie Fette: It's easy to see or it's easy to get the impression, I should say, that the management side of the conflict has the upper hand in cases like this one.
• 10:33
  Bernie Fette: Am I oversimplifying there?
• 10:34
  Bernie Fette: Am I misreading there?
• 10:37
  Allan Rutter: Uh, not necessarily.
• 10:39
  Allan Rutter: I think it all depends on what's at issue.
• 10:41
  Allan Rutter: In this particular case, I think if you look at what the Presidential Emergency Board recommended, which was some fairly substantial wage increases, increases in benefits, and of course rail labor already has some pretty substantial benefits in terms of their medical insurance being provided at some very small co-pays and they're subject to a different retirement system than Social Security.
• 11:10
  Allan Rutter: So at the end of this Presidential Emergency Board, they were already looking at some pretty substantial gains from a monetary standpoint.
• 11:19
  Allan Rutter: It's the working conditions stuff that were still a problem.
• 11:23
  Allan Rutter: And frankly, if you look at what happened over the pandemic, I think rail labor felt that they showed up to work every day.
• 11:32
  Allan Rutter: Trains don't run remotely.
• 11:34
  Allan Rutter: Uh, so the sorts of working conditions and the fact that they're on call pretty much 24/7, when you're told to go to work, you have to go to work.
• 11:44
  Allan Rutter: It's a difficult job and it's a dangerous job, and it's a job where you're showing up all hours of the day, all seasons of the year.
• 11:52
  Allan Rutter: It's a tough gig.
• 11:53
  Allan Rutter: And so I think they weren't really feeling a whole lot of appreciation or affection.
• 12:00
  Bernie Fette: So, regarding which side perhaps had the upper hand in this dispute depends a lot on whose lens you're looking through.
• 12:07
  Allan Rutter: Yes.
• 12:07
  Allan Rutter: And, and certainly the labor folks were not seeing that they had gained enough in the resolution of this.
• 12:15
  Bernie Fette: I'm curious about your thoughts on where we'd be right now if the strike had not been prevented, how the dominoes may have fallen, you might say.
• 12:25
  Bernie Fette: Can you talk a little about the railroads more broadly?
• 12:29
  Bernie Fette: What do they carry every day?
• 12:31
  Bernie Fette: You talked about how it's a 24/7 thing.
• 12:34
  Bernie Fette: They don't run remotely.
• 12:35
  Bernie Fette: Can you expand on that a little bit?
• 12:38
  Allan Rutter: Let me talk a little bit about how a strike would've affected businesses and industry in Texas in particular.
• 12:44
  Allan Rutter: A lot of livestock in Texas depends on grain that moves by rail.
• 12:49
  Allan Rutter: That means beef, cattle, poultry, both turkeys and chickens.
• 12:54
  Allan Rutter: There's an awful lot of livestock operations in Texas that depend on grain coming by train.
• 13:00
  Allan Rutter: Fracking depends on sand that comes from Wisconsin.
• 13:03
  Allan Rutter: For some reason, there's just something special about, uh, Wisconsin sand and that moves by rail car.
• 13:10
  Allan Rutter: Most electricity in Texas is produced by natural gas, but there's still some coal-fired plants and particularly the LCRA plant in LaGrange uses.
• 13:20
  Bernie Fette: And that's the Lower Colorado River Authority's power plant?
• 13:23
  Allan Rutter: Yes, sir.
• 13:24
  Allan Rutter: They've used coal for the Powder River basin in Wyoming.
• 13:27
  Allan Rutter: That moves by rail.
• 13:28
  Allan Rutter: Ethanol.
• 13:30
  Allan Rutter: That gets mixed into gasoline as you can see that from every gas pump, tells you how much ethanol is in it-- that gets produced in the Midwest from corn and then moves by rail car and not by pipeline.
• 13:43
  Allan Rutter: Drinking water depends on chlorine.
• 13:45
  Allan Rutter: And a lot of that chlorine moves by rail car because it's so specialized and toxic; rail is the safest and most direct way to make that happen.
• 13:54
  Allan Rutter: And then finally, there's a lot of, uh, motor vehicle manufacturing in Texas, particularly GM in Arlington and Toyota in San Antonio.
• 14:02
  Allan Rutter: They depend on rail to move parts and finished goods in and out.
• 14:08
  Allan Rutter: So not having freight rail service would've been a big deal for Texas.
• 14:13
  Bernie Fette: So one of the things I was waiting for you to talk about was whether or not this had any impact at all on passenger rail, on Amtrak.
• 14:21
  Bernie Fette: Is this exclusively a freight rail thing or is there any overlap there?
• 14:25
  Allan Rutter: There are a lot of Amtrak services that depend on freight rail access, most long distance services of which is what operates through Texas.
• 14:34
  Allan Rutter: That depends on freight railroads.
• 14:36
  Allan Rutter: And if they go out and can't be served, then those services don't happen.
• 14:41
  Allan Rutter: There's an interesting thing about the Northeast corridor, which Amtrak owns, but there's some freight rail that goes across it, particularly in Delaware, that goes into the Delaware- Maryland peninsula.
• 14:55
  Allan Rutter: To the extent that there are issues with some of that freight rail that crosses there, there may have been some problems with Northeast Corridor service, but there's an awful lot of Amtrak services.
• 15:07
  Allan Rutter: I'm thinking in particular about what happens in California.
• 15:10
  Allan Rutter: Most of those move on freight rail rights-of-way.
• 15:14
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 15:15
  Bernie Fette: In just talking with people while this story was unfolding, I was a bit surprised to find out that some people weren't aware of the impending strike at all, or if they were aware of it, they didn't seem to be terribly concerned about it.
• 15:29
  Bernie Fette: I'm not sure how to ask this question, but what do you think that that says about our collective dependence on the railroads?
• 15:37
  Bernie Fette: Are we taking things for granted?
• 15:39
  Allan Rutter: I think there's a certain amount of that, and that's a good thing.
• 15:42
  Allan Rutter: Frankly, not having to worry about it in the same way that up until February of 2021, most Texans didn't have to worry about switching on the light switch and power coming on.
• 15:54
  Allan Rutter: We depend on this sort of background service and freight railroads are one of those things where their dependability becomes something that you sort of take for granted.
• 16:05
  Allan Rutter: I think this particular strike is-- and its resolution by Congress-- is a way of saying to both railroads and the people that work for them, this is really important and we can't afford for it not to be working.
• 16:21
  Bernie Fette: And the COVID-19 pandemic that you had mentioned early on in our conversation really brought the concept of supply chains into a national conversation.
• 16:33
  Bernie Fette: How we get our toilet paper and our gasoline and our bananas and everything else that we need.
• 16:37
  Bernie Fette: Do you think that the pandemic's effect on supply chains had any impact on how people may have viewed the potential of a nationwide rail strike?
• 16:47
  Allan Rutter: I think it had a, uh, there was a hook there that, uh, people in Congress looked at that and said, for all kinds of reasons, we don't want to put our supply chain in crisis.
• 17:00
  Allan Rutter: Regardless of how different parts of industries may or may not use railroads, it's too interdependent for that to go away.
• 17:09
  Allan Rutter: I think in particular, if you think about intermodal containers that move from ship to trucks to railroads, so much of the supply chain is so interdependent between modes that having the railroads go offline became something that a whole lot of parts of industry said, nah, we can't really take that.
• 17:30
  Bernie Fette: We don't wanna risk that.
• 17:32
  Allan Rutter: It's too fragile.
• 17:33
  Bernie Fette: Yeah.
• 17:35
  Bernie Fette: For a few years you served as the head of the Federal Railroad Administration, and even though you were not in an elected position, you operated very closely to people who were.
• 17:47
  Bernie Fette: You're a researcher and a, a spectator of sorts now, but there was a time when you were much more in the middle of the public policy mix.
• 17:56
  Bernie Fette: Reflecting back on that time, were there any moments that looked anything like what you've been watching lately?
• 18:06
  Allan Rutter: I think the, probably the closest thing that we had to work through really were two things.
• 18:12
  Allan Rutter: One is two months after I was confirmed by the Senate in July of 2001, September 11th happened.
• 18:21
  Allan Rutter: I was actually in Chicago on an event with the Chicago Commuter Rail Agency and we were gonna talk about grade crossings-- while we were watching the towers falling.
• 18:33
  Allan Rutter: That really changed our, the things that were on our plate and rail security, rail vulnerability became something that we had to think about a lot.
• 18:44
  Allan Rutter: So I, I think the biggest impact thing that I can remember, that's one of them.
• 18:50
  Allan Rutter: And then maybe a year or two later, Amtrak itself was having some financial problems and difficulties.
• 18:57
  Allan Rutter: And one of the things that we did at the FRA was issued them a rail rehabilitation and improvement financing loan, a RIF loan, of$200 million that kept them solvent.
• 19:11
  Allan Rutter: And had that not been done, they would've had some operating problems and faced some real challenges.
• 19:17
  Allan Rutter: So I can see what the administration was in a position to be thinking about and watching the Secretary of Transportation and the Secretary of Labor in the middle of all of this made me think that would've been some high-profile, high-intensity conversations that were going on.
• 19:35
  Bernie Fette: Yeah.
• 19:37
  Bernie Fette: I would like to start wrapping up by asking you to offer a contrast on a couple of things.
• 19:45
  Bernie Fette: First, now that this most recent dispute has been put to rest, at least for the time, are there any looming threats on the horizon with regard to labor and management conditions in the rail industry that you're concerned about?
• 19:59
  Bernie Fette: And second, I'm wondering whether there's any bright spot in what we just went through, something positive that we can carry forward, maybe?
• 20:10
  Bernie Fette: So maybe two sides of that coin.
• 20:14
  Allan Rutter: I think the challenge that we're facing really isn't rail-related.
• 20:17
  Allan Rutter: It's another labor/management thing and it's west coast ports.
• 20:22
  Allan Rutter: They have chosen to continue to be negotiating without the threat of a strike.
• 20:27
  Allan Rutter: And their deal expired in July of this year.
• 20:31
  Allan Rutter: So there's an ongoing sort of risk that's associated with west coast ports that needs to be resolved.
• 20:40
  Allan Rutter: The good news is that labor and management on both sides of that, in part encouraged by the administration, have kept their negotiations at the table instead of spilling out into actions or the possibilities of a strike.
• 20:55
  Allan Rutter: So I think the remaining risk to the supply chain is associated with west coast ports.
• 21:02
  Allan Rutter: I think they're probably a couple of bright spots here.
• 21:05
  Allan Rutter: One of them is the extent to which working conditions and the importance of rail labor has been increased in visibility.
• 21:15
  Allan Rutter: Their jobs are really tough.
• 21:17
  Allan Rutter: That's a tough gig to have and to make sure that there's a lot of people throughout the industry, throughout Congress who now have a heightened appreciation for what these guys do.
• 21:28
  Allan Rutter: That's something that's good news from all of this.
• 21:32
  Allan Rutter: And I think that there's continued attention to shippers and what they depend on railroads to do.
• 21:39
  Allan Rutter: The Surface Transportation Board, another entity that's independent of the Department of Transportation, five Senate confirmed members on that, and they are really focused in a laser beam on making sure that railroads do what they have promised shippers that they would do.
• 21:59
  Allan Rutter: And their chairman, Marty Oberman from Chicago is really calling attention to, let's make sure that railroads are functioning in a way that works for everybody.
• 22:09
  Allan Rutter: There's a lot more attention on how railroads function and they're getting a lot more attention on the national level.
• 22:16
  Bernie Fette: And maybe a, a chance to have a greater appreciation for something before we happened to lose it.
• 22:23
  Allan Rutter: Absolutely.
• 22:24
  Allan Rutter: I think most of us, the only time we think about railroads is when we're stopped at a grade crossing and wonder when we're gonna be able to go again.
• 22:33
  Allan Rutter: Railroads really provide a really crucial service in our nation's economy and in Texas.
• 22:40
  Allan Rutter: Texas has more railroad employees, more railroad miles than any other state.
• 22:45
  Bernie Fette: So like a lot of other elements of our transportation system, we really don't think about it until something goes wrong with it.
• 22:52
  Allan Rutter: That's the case.
• 22:53
  Allan Rutter: And the good news is Congress took action and acted in quick and bipartisan fashion to keep things running.
• 23:02
  Bernie Fette: What have I not asked you about that you were wanting me to ask you about?
• 23:06
  Allan Rutter: I think the only thing that I'd make a case about is how railroad workers did their jobs throughout the pandemic.
• 23:17
  Allan Rutter: Just like truck drivers who were keeping our grocery stores fully stocked, railroads were doing their work all throughout the pandemic, these guys were showing up in all kinds of weather, all kinds of conditions, and they showed up and made that part of the industry work.
• 23:36
  Allan Rutter: When folks like us had the ability to work from home, they didn't have that ability and they made the railroads continue to work and think this is one way of showing some appreciation for, hey, you, you guys, we really appreciate how much your actions was such a benefit for our economy.
• 23:59
  Bernie Fette: And as you said a little earlier, the railroads run 24/7, but they do not run remotely.
• 24:07
  Allan Rutter: Nope.
• 24:07
  Allan Rutter: Right now, those locomotives have two people in that front cab, and it's way too important.
• 24:14
  Allan Rutter: The things that can go wrong can go wrong spectacularly.
• 24:18
  Allan Rutter: So it's really important for those things to have some people involved.
• 24:22
  Bernie Fette: Last question.
• 24:24
  Bernie Fette: What gets you excited to come to work every day after this many years of doing what you've been doing?
• 24:30
  Allan Rutter: I think the thing that really makes me excited about, particularly coming to work at TTI is how many really sharp and smart people we have and how many really important things our people are working on.
• 24:43
  Allan Rutter: We were at an event on Tuesday where we were talking with some of the other people who had done these podcasts, and I think about the stars and really incredibly sharp people that we have around us.
• 24:55
  Allan Rutter: I get a lot of enthusiasm and excitement about just being around smart people, and we have lots of those.
• 25:03
  Bernie Fette: That we do.
• 25:05
  Bernie Fette: We have been visiting with Allan Rutter, a senior research scientist at TTI.
• 25:11
  Bernie Fette: Thank you, Allan.
• 25:13
  Bernie Fette: So glad you could join us and bring your characteristically sharp focus to a somewhat cloudy picture.
• 25:19
  Bernie Fette: We really appreciate it.
• 25:20
  Bernie Fette: Thank you.
• 25:21
  Allan Rutter: Thanks for the opportunity.
• 25:24
  Bernie Fette: The only time that many of us think about America's railroads is when we're stopped at a train crossing, wondering how long it will be before we can continue on our way.
• 25:34
  Bernie Fette: We often fail to consider how important those rail lines are to our economy.
• 25:40
  Bernie Fette: Livestock operations depend upon grain.
• 25:43
  Bernie Fette: Drinking water requires chlorine.
• 25:45
  Bernie Fette: Auto assembly plants need parts that come in to produce cars that are shipped out.
• 25:51
  Bernie Fette: And the gasoline for those cars requires ethanol.
• 25:55
  Bernie Fette: All of these and more are moved by rail.
• 26:00
  Bernie Fette: We often have to face the possibility of losing something before we're reminded of just how much we appreciate it.
• 26:06
  Bernie Fette: COVID-19 helped us understand that.
• 26:09
  Bernie Fette: And the railroad strike that almost was, has served as a reminder.
• 26:16
  Bernie Fette: Thank you for listening.
• 26:18
  Bernie Fette: Please take just a minute to give us a review, subscribe and share this episode.
• 26:24
  Bernie Fette: We hope you'll listen again next time when we visit with Melisa Finley and hear about wrong-way driving, and the newest ways to combat a crash trend that's somewhat rare, but almost always deadly.
• 26:36
  Bernie Fette: Thinking Transportation is a production of the Texas A&M Transportation Institute, a member of the Texas A&M University System.
• 26:47
  Bernie Fette: The show is edited and produced by Chris Pourteau.
• 26:51
  Bernie Fette: I'm your writer and host, Bernie Fette.
• 26:53
  Bernie Fette: Thanks again for listening.
• 26:55
  Bernie Fette: We'll see you next time.