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The Best Nonfiction Books With Robert Kolker · The Read Carpet Report

• Jackie: Welcome to the Red Carpet Report, your backstage pass for celebrity book clubs, book adaptations, and new book releases. I'm I'm here, Stanley. And we're your hosts. This week we are talking about our favorite nonfiction books. It's the November prompt for the reading challenge. And we really wanted to make sure that there was something for everybody. Kirsten Baritz: Welcome to the Red Carpet Report, your backstage pass for celebrity book clubs, book adaptations, and new book releases. I'm Jackie. And I'm Kirsten. And we're your hosts. This week we are talking about our favorite nonfiction books. It's the November prompt for the reading challenge. And we really wanted to make sure that there was something for everybody. I cannot wait to get into our favorites because I am a recent convert to nonfiction. But before that, I think we need to do the red carpet rundown. And I know that you've got some some good ones for us this week. There are. There's three new movies that are coming out and they're all coming out on the same day on the twenty-third. So do you want to talk about the first one? Jackie: Good ones for us this week. There are. There's three new movies that are coming out and they're all coming out on the same day on the twenty third. So do you want to talk about the first one? Kirsten Baritz: So we're getting an adaptation Jackie: We're getting an adaptation. Kirsten Baritz: of Wildwood by Carson Ellis and Colin Malloy, who are married. And this stop motion animation situation has taken, I want to say, like five years. It it stop motion animation is a serious business. And Wildwood is an adaptation of a middle grade. Jackie: Situation has taken, I want to say like five years. It it sound motion animation is a serious business. And Wildwood is an adaptation of a middle grade series, it's the first in a series about a little girl whose brother was kidnapped and she has to go into the Wildwood where there are talking animals and something has happened. I will say there's a trigger warning here: the queen has lost a child. Kirsten Baritz: series, it's the first in a series about a little girl whose brother was kidnapped and she has to go into the wild wood where there are talking animals and something has happened. I will say there's a trigger warning here. The queen has lost a child Jackie: Okay. That is part of the storyline. And so if you or your family are quit to deal with that, then don't go to the theater. But I personally really want to see this one. I think Stop Gap Animation is a brilliant art form. Kirsten Baritz: and that is part of the storyline. And so if you or your family are not equipped to deal with that, then don't go to the theater. But I personally really want to see this one. I think Stopgap Animation is a brilliant art form. Jackie: And I'm so glad that there's still with all the technology that's available, that people are still making movies, because it truly is an art form. It's amazing. Kirsten Baritz: And I'm so glad that they're still with all the technology that's available that people are still making movies, because it truly is an art form. It's amazing. And if you can't remember, probably the most famous one that I can think of is The Night Before Christmas. That is stop motion animation. and also like the Wallace and Gromitz. I know you've seen those. The best, the best. So good. There's so Jackie: Yeah, no, no, yeah. They're so good. They're so funny. Kirsten Baritz: They are. I it is truly they're different, but they're they're Jackie: They're different, but they're they're Kirsten Baritz: beautifully done. And so this one looks really, really good. I am excited about this particular one. What else do we have? Jackie: I'm so excited for Clara and the Sun. It's starring Amy Adams and Jenna Ortega. And it looks like it's going to be so good. It is about a a robot. Kirsten Baritz: I'm so excited for Clara and the Sun. It's starring Amy Adams and Jenna Ortega. And it looks like it's going to be so good. It is about a robot. Jackie: It's about a ro Kirsten Baritz: It's about a robot who's who is like a friend of it's like a companion robot. Yes. So you can go and pick out a best friend. Which Jackie: It's like a companion robot. Yes, so you can go and pick out a best friend. Kirsten Baritz: is crazy to me. And it's sci-fi. And I actually read this book as part of our reading challenge when we did pick a sci-fi book because I am new to sci-fi and it's still not one of my favorite genres, but I did really, really appreciate this story. So Jackie: And I can't wait to see the movie and I wanna see what you think about how it compares to the book because this has been on my TBR forever and I haven't had a chance to read it yet. Well and I feel like you would love it. I feel like I would love it Kirsten Baritz: And I can't wait to see the movie and I wanna see what you think about how it compares to the book because this has been on my T B R forever and I haven't had a chance to read it yet. and I feel like you would love it. I feel like I would love it too. Jackie: too. Kirsten Baritz: So the last one that we have, and I feel like you know something about this, and I do not, is Wicker based on a short story called The Wicker Husband by Ursula Willis Jones. And I have no idea what this is, and the look on your face is telling me that. Jackie: So the last one that we have, and I feel like you know something about this, and I do not, is Wicker based on a short story called The Wicker Husband by Ursula Willis Jones. And I have no idea what this is, and the look on your face is telling me that. It's unusual. Kirsten Baritz: It's unusual. Okay, it stars Olivia Coleman and Alexander Skarsgard, where she is like a fish Jackie: Okay. She is like a fish. Kirsten Baritz: monger and in like a village in medieval times. Okay. And she Jackie: Okay. Kirsten Baritz: is like belittled, I guess, in society for her place. And so she goes to the wicker man and asks her and make her a wicker husband. Jackie: Wait, what? That's Alexandra's scarf scarf. Wait, so Alexander's is made out of liquor? Kirsten Baritz: Wait, what? And it's Alexandra Scar's card. Wait, so Alexander Scar is made out of wicker? Yes, and they have like per the trailer incredible sex. Wait a minute, I don't get it. Jackie: Wait a minute, I don't get it. How I I don't understand. Kirsten Baritz: I don't understand. trailer is one of the weirdest things I have ever seen and I don't understand what this but wait how does he come to life? The wicker man can make people out of wicker? Jackie: Wait, how does he come to life? The wicker man can make people out of wicker? Kirsten Baritz: I think so and he's like this magical wicker and then she shows up like and the village is like what and he's this honk hunky guy. He's made of wicker. The vi You have to watch the trailer. You guys. You have to watch the trailer. I don't know but the scenes, the steamy like Jackie: You have to watch the floor. So what happens when he gets wet? You have to watch the floor. Like the scenes, the steamy, like what? I don't I don't I don't get it. I I got it. I don't no, I don't understand. But I need someone to see it and report back because what Kirsten Baritz: I'm deceased. I I'm not paying to see this in the theater. I don't understand. But I need someone to see it and report back because what the what the what? Jackie: I d I feel like that would be like very rough. I'll tell you, they make him into a hunky man a wicker. Kirsten Baritz: I'll tell you, they make him into a hunky man of wicker. Jackie: That's like a permanent five o'clock shadow. Kirsten Baritz: Like a permanent five o'clock shadow. Yeah, it's it's something. It's really I'm really happy that you did not know so that Jackie: Yeah, it's it's something. Okay. I'm really happy that you did not know today. Kirsten Baritz: I got to be the person to tell you about this movie. Okay, I feel like I may not see this one, but if you do and it's good, please let us know. Jackie: Okay, I feel like I may not see this one, but if you do and it's good, please let us know. Kirsten Baritz: Please do. I can't even get I can't think about it without giggling like a schoolgirl because it is it's a wack-a-doodle. It's a steamy Jackie: It's a steamy, steamy movie? I believe so. Like fifty shit like Kirsten Baritz: Steamy movie? I believe so. I mean the trailer shows Jackie: What? Kirsten Baritz: like panting and like there's a thing about like she was up all night. I can't. I cannot. It looks it looks Jackie: my god. Okay. Kirsten Baritz: very steamy. It looks like fifty shades of gray, medieval Jackie: Do you see the look on my face? I think I don't Kirsten Baritz: fifty shades of gray with I can't I just that's gonna be a real It does, that's what it looks like in the trailer. I don't know. Jackie: Lord. Kirsten Baritz: Yeah. anyway, okay. Jackie: be a hard pass. Okay. Moving on, we are doing the best nonfiction book for our reading challenge for November. And like I said before, we decided to do this because a lot of times I feel like nonfiction books can feel very intimidating for some people. And so we didn't want to say you need to read a nonfiction book about fill in the blank. Kirsten Baritz: We are doing the best nonfiction book for our reading challenge for November. And like I said before, we decided to do this because a lot of times I feel like non-fiction books can feel very intimidating for some people. And so we didn't want to say you need to read a non-fiction book about fill-in-the-blank. Right. Right? Because Jackie: Right, because not every nonfiction book is appealing to every person. So we wanted to leave it very open ended for the types of books that you could read to get yourself into nonfiction if this isn't your genre. Kirsten Baritz: Not every nonfiction book is appealing to every person. So we wanted to leave it very open-ended for the types of books that you could read to get yourself into nonfiction at this incident in your genre. And we have really fun picks, and we tried to be very Jackie: Very Kirsten Baritz: thoughtful about the kinds of books that we're picking from Jackie: The kinds of books that we're picking from. Kirsten Baritz: all kinds of different genres of nonfiction because. I we're definitely more fiction readers, hands down. but like fiction, there are many types of genres of nonfiction. So we're gonna show you the whole map. And if you are a huge nonfiction reader, I'm sure that we have some recommendations that you maybe haven't seen before. Jackie: We're definitely more fiction readers, but hands down. but like fiction, there are many types of genres of nonfiction. So we're gonna show you the whole map. And if you are a huge nonfiction reader, I'm sure that we have some recommendations that you maybe haven't seen before. Yep, we tried to go out. Kirsten Baritz: Yep, we tried to go outside the box. So even though we're doing our best of, you're not gonna see those major blockbusters. We're not gonna talk to you about strangers, not gonna talk to you about the art thief or night or becoming. We've talked about all those before. So and you guys have all heard of them. So we're going a little bit more niche. So you go first. Jackie: Beef or night or becoming. We've talked about all those before, so and you guys have all heard of them. So we're going a little bit more niche. Okay. You go I am gonna talk about The Immortal Life of Henrietta Laxe by Rebecca Sclut. I love this book so much. Kirsten Baritz: The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by Rebecca Sclut. I love this book so much. This is definitely for someone who is a little more scientifically based and has interest in science. It is about a cell that is called the Gila cell. It is the basis for a lot of what people do in medicine. It is an immortal cell, and it was taken without the permission of Henrietta Lacks. Jackie: This is definitely for someone who is a little more scientifically based and has interest in science. It is about a cell that is called the Gila cell. It is the basis for a lot of what people do in medicine. It is an immortal cell. And it was taken without the permission of Henrietta Lax. And to this day, her family has still not been able to pay for their own medical care, where Kirsten Baritz: And to this day, her family has still not been able to pay for their own medical care where companies have made billions of dollars off of herself. Jackie: companies have made billions of dollars off of her sales. Kirsten Baritz: I'm glad that you chose this one because science is not generally my genre of nonfiction, but it is yours. And you Jackie: Is yours and Kirsten Baritz: have the best recommendations in this one. And I have seen the adaptation of this particular one, and it is fascinating. Phenomenal. So Jackie: Thank you. Phenomenal. So if you have not read this, it's it actually is brilliantly done. You can absolutely understand it, even if you are not a science person. So I highly recommend it. What do you have? Kirsten Baritz: If you have not read this, it's it actually is brilliantly done. You can absolutely understand it, even if you are not a science person. So I highly recommend it. What do you have? Okay, you picked science. So I'm gonna get one of my heavier Jackie: you picked science. So I'm gonna get one of my heavier Kirsten Baritz: topics out of the way and I'm gonna go politics, which Jackie: Yeah. Kirsten Baritz: I have a child Jackie: Ha. who only reads nonfiction books Kirsten Baritz: who only reads nonfiction books about politics. Like I'm talking everything across the spectrum, all the things. And Jackie: Everything across the spectrum, all the things. And that does not appeal to me. I'm gonna be completely honest with you, but I wanted to read something that I could talk to him about. And so I read this collection of essays. Kirsten Baritz: That does not appeal to me. I'm gonna be completely honest with you, but I wanted to read something that I could talk to him about. And so I read this collection of essays. Jackie: It's called Who is Government? The Untold Stories of Public Service by Michael Lewis. And they're like Geraldine Brooks wrote one of the essays. Basically, you know, we all think of the typical jobs of government. There are a lot of really niche, fascinating jobs. And so each of these famous writers, Dave Edgers, is on there, took a different genre and interviewed the person and wrote a little bit about them. So Kirsten Baritz: It's called Who is Government? The Untold Stories of Public Service by Michael Lewis. And they're like Geraldine Brooks wrote one of the essays. Basically, we all think of the typical jobs of government, but there are a lot of really niche, fascinating jobs. And so each of these famous writers, Dave Edgers, is on there, took a different genre and interviewed the person and wrote a little bit about them. So Jackie: the IRS, we all just think about. Kirsten Baritz: The IRS, we all just think about taxes. Jackie: Well, they also like go after people for tax evasion and they talk about the money laundering of cryptocurrency or whatever. There's one about the person in charge of burial if you are a veteran, because there are funds that are given and there are different services that can help offset the cost of your funeral and Kirsten Baritz: Well, they also like go after people for tax evasion and they talk about the money laundering of cryptocurrency or whatever. There's one about the person in charge of burial if you are a veteran, because there are funds that are given and there are different services that can help offset the cost of your funeral and all of these different things. So it sounds like this is a book that. Jackie: So it sounds like this is a book that is about government but is not political. So no matter where you are on the political spectrum, you can find something new in this book that's just enlightening without delving into left and right issues. Yes, and it will give you a deep appreciation. Kirsten Baritz: It's about government, but it's not political. So no matter where you are on the political spectrum, you can find something new in this book that's just enlightening without delving into left and right issues. Yes. And it will give you a deep appreciation for some of the things that our tax dollars give us that are nonpartisan that just make the country run better. So speaking of making the world into a better place, Jackie: So speaking of making the world into a better place, My next book is The Good Neighbor by Maxwell King. This doesn't surprise me even a little bit because you've been raving about this book since I'm So this, in case you were unaware, is the story of Mr. Rogers. And he was such a beautiful soul. He Kirsten Baritz: My next book is The Good Neighbor by Maxwell King. This doesn't surprise me even a little bit because you've been raving about this book since I have known you. So this, in case you were unaware, is the story of Mr. Rogers. And he was such soul. He Jackie: A lot of us don't realize that in making a show for children, he was teaching the children about kindness. And there were certain things that he did on the show that people really took for granted. Like when he had the mailman come and sit and put his feet into a pool with Mr. Rogers. This was at a time when there were a lot of discussions of segregation in the country. And so he Kirsten Baritz: A lot of us don't realize that in making a show for children, he was teaching the children about kindness. And there were certain things that he did on the show that people really took for granted. Like when he had the mailman come and sit and put his feet into a pool with Mr. Rogers. This was at a time when there were a lot of discussions of segregation in the country. And so he Jackie: Just went out of his way to show that we are all people. He he went out of his way to make sure that children who were blind, who are watching the show, knew that he was feeding the fish. There were so many things that he did that were just so thoughtful and kind and educational. You're reading this book and just being in awe. Kirsten Baritz: Just went out of his way to show that we are all people. He he went out of his way to make sure that children who were blind, who are watching the show, knew that he was feeding the fish. There were so many things that he did that were just so thoughtful and kind and educational. You're reading this book and just being in awe. Jackie: Of someone who just dedicated his life to other people and raising our children in the place. Yes. Kirsten Baritz: Of someone who just dedicated his life to other people and raising our children in a positive way. Yes. Yes. I had a a little bit of info about him because I'd read that book Sunny Days about public television and the rise of like children's Jackie: Mm. Yes, yeah. Kirsten Baritz: programming on public television. So I had a tiny glimpse into his story, Jackie: Yeah. Kirsten Baritz: but this is one that I really would like to read because Like I just had he like raised us. You've never read it? No, no. Jackie: You've never read it? No. No way. my God. I know. Kirsten Baritz: I know. my god. I know. Jackie: You will love it. Kirsten Baritz: Okay, well, I'm gonna add it to my list. But in the meantime, I am gonna pick up a torch of like public service and public figures, and I am gonna come up with one that's a little out of the box. I know what you're talking about. I'm talking about HRH. Jackie: I know what you're talking about. I'm talking about Kirsten Baritz: So many thoughts on style by Elizabeth Holmes. And what I love about this is well, first of all, it's very visual, but I love fashion and I love the royals, and this adds both in to the same story. But it looks at how the clothing that the royals wore during different times signaled different things and how it shaped them as people, but also why they chose certain clothes for certain occasions, what their strategy is. And it goes Jackie: signal different things and how it shaped them as people but also why they chose certain clothes for certain occasions, what their strategy is and it goes Kirsten Baritz: through the four main ladies: Kate, Megan, Diana, and HRH, Queen Elizabeth II. I mean Jackie: Hey, my name Diana and HRH Queen Elizabeth II I mean those two bottom ladies are so iconic. Icons. Kirsten Baritz: Those two bottom. I mean icons. Icons. Iconic. Icons. And it talks about the fashion and the choices and how things were made. And it also just talks about their lives and like I mean Diana. This is a really Jackie: I mean Diana. This is a really Kirsten Baritz: good one because it can be a coffee table book, but it gives you a little bit more meat than you would think. And it's a really approachable Jackie: But it gives you a little bit more meat than you would think and it's a really appropriate Kirsten Baritz: one if you love either of those topics. Jackie: I have one for you that's also a little bit science-y, but not really. It is Soul of an Octopus by Cy Montgomery. Okay. I feel like I should have talked about this book a hundred times. If you loved remarkably bright creatures, this is nonfiction Kirsten Baritz: I have one for you that's also a little bit sciencey, but not really. Okay. It is Soul of an Octopus by Simon Gumbray. Okay. I feel like I should have talked about this book a hundred times. If you loved Remarkably Bright Creatures, this is nonfiction. Jackie: about an octopus. Kirsten Baritz: About an octopus, Jackie: It is about a scientist, Simon Gomery, and her relationship with an octopus in an aquarium. They're such brilliant animals. They're so smart. I absolutely could not get over this book. It's true stories, and some of it you're like, this couldn't have happened. It's all happened. Kirsten Baritz: it is about a scientist, Simon Gomery, and her relationship with an octopus in an aquarium. They're such brilliant animals. They're so smart. I absolutely could not get over this book. It's true stories, and some of them are like, This couldn't have happened, it's all happened. Jackie: And and she writes it, and you feel like you get to know all these octopuses and Kirsten Baritz: And and she writes it and you feel like you get to know all these octopuses and her relationship with them and and getting new octopuses. I mean Jackie: Her relationship with them and and getting new octopuses. I mean Kirsten Baritz: gonna be honest. I my Instagram feed has a lot of octopus on it. Octopuses? It's octopuses. Jackie: It's octopuses. Kirsten Baritz: Okay. Well, I think they are fascinating. I stopped eating octopus after reading remarkably bright creatures because I'm convinced that they're like, I don't know, aliens from like a n they are so brilliantly smart that I feel like it'd be like eating a dolphin. Like you just no, we don't do that. And yeah, I do really want to read this book because I just I think they're fascinating. Jackie: Just no, we don't do that, and yeah, I do really want to read this I feel like they are aliens from outer space that are like like judging us, they're Kirsten Baritz: I feel like they are aliens from outer space that are like like judging us. Totally. I'll use that segue for aliens from outer space for my next book. Okay. Jackie: Wait. that aliens from outer space. Literary Wonderlands is a journey through the greatest fictional world ever. Kirsten Baritz: Literary Wonderlands is a journey through the greatest fictional worlds ever. And this is an excellent gift for book lovers because, again, with my visual aids, you guys, Jackie: for book lovers because again with my visual aids you guys Kirsten Baritz: I think I have like a thing where I really like a visual aid. It goes. I didn't get the memo. Jackie: It goes. I didn't get the memo. Kirsten Baritz: Ta-da! Look at my octopus. So it basically Jackie: Wait pieces. Kirsten Baritz: is a reference point to any fictional world that you've read, especially in the classics, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. It gives you a little bit of background information. So Neverland is in here. A Kidding King Arthur's Court is in here. Jackie: Kidding King Arthur's court is in here. You name it if it is a classic and it was inspired. Kirsten Baritz: You name it if it is a classic and it was inspired some kind of a literary world, it's in here. And so I think when you're reading The Wizard of Oz, to be able to get a little bit of background on how that world was created before you dive in and Jackie: It's in here. And so I think when you're reading The Wizard of Oz, wow. To be able to get a little bit of background on how that world was created before you dive in and Kirsten Baritz: read the world. Jackie: It's such a good reference guide. I feel like I need that book. I think you do. I don't know why I don't have it. Kirsten Baritz: it's such a good reference guide. I feel like I need that book. I think you do. I don't know why I don't have I don't either, but it's so good. Jackie: you're talking about literature. So I wanna talk about one of the newer picks and one of the shorter picks that I have. Kirsten Baritz: You're talking about literature. Mm-hmm. So I want to talk about one of the newer picks and one of the shorter picks that I have. Okay. Jackie: It is Why You Should Read Children's Books, Even Though You Are So Old and Wise by Katherine Rundell. What a name. I know. I know. I love it. I feel like every time I say the name of that title, I leave out a word or two. This is short, it's sweet, and it talks about the beauty of children's literature. Okay, so not picture books, children's literature. Kirsten Baritz: It is Why You Should Read Children's Books Even Though You Are So Old and Wise by Katherine Randell. What a name of a title. I love it. Okay. I feel like every time I say the name of that title, I leave out a word or two. This is short, it's sweet, and it talks about the beauty of children's literature. Okay. So not picture books, children's Jackie: Literature and how important it is, even as adults, to be able to read a book just for the enjoyment of reading a book, expanding your imagination, diving into a world and fully embracing it without worrying. Could this really happen? Does that happen? Is this realistic? Like, Kirsten Baritz: Literature and how important it is, even as adults, to be able to read a book just for the enjoyment of reading a book, expanding your imagination, diving into a world and fully embracing it without worrying. Could this really happen? Does that happen? Is this realistic? Like, no, Jackie: And she of anyone who's gonna write this, she wrote Impossible Freak, which is basically the new Harry Potter, the new Keeper of the Lust kind of series, and it is phenomenal. Fantastic. Those other books are good because of the kind of storytelling that they have, but this is like Kirsten Baritz: And she of anyone who's gonna write this, she wrote Impossible Creatures, which is basically the new Harry Potter, the new Keeper of the Lost Cities kind of series. And it is phenomenal. Like those other books are good because of the kind of storytelling that they have, but this is like. Jackie: she says Kirsten Baritz: She's such a good writer. I'm obsessed. One of the things I found Jackie: What other things I found? Kirsten Baritz: on my journey to nonfiction readerdom is that I really love to read about nonfiction, about historic women doing awesome things, groundbreaking things. And so Julia Cook's Jackie: About historic women doing awesome things, groundbreaking things. And so Julia Cook's Kirsten Baritz: Come Fly the World is a really interesting one for me. If you've ever seen Gwyneth Paltrow's view from the top about the retro sort of like airline stewardesses of their day, this is about. Jackie: Is a really interesting one for me. If you've ever seen Gwyneth Powtrill's view from the top about the retro sort of like airline stewardesses of their day, this is about female stewardesses. Right. From the basically the advent of aviation through the end of the seventies, kind of. Right. When flying was something totally different. Totally different. It was an experience. Kirsten Baritz: Female stewardesses from the basically the advent of aviation through the end of the 70s, kind of. Right. When flying was something totally different. Totally different. It was an experience. It was. And so it kind of talks about their genre and how flying has changed, but then it also talks about what these stewardesses did in Vietnam to help rescue people. Jackie: did in Vietnam to help. right. And there are just some fantastic stories in this book where it felt like I was reading fiction in some way. It was just lovely and wonderful and it wasn't too scary and it wasn't too dark. And as I'm trying to get over Kirsten Baritz: And there are just some fantastic stories in this book where it felt like I was reading fiction in some ways. It was just lovely and wonderful and it wasn't too scary and it wasn't too dark. And as I'm trying to get over my fear of flying, it was very helpful. Jackie: I have one that is actually it's a little bit heavier. it's I'm glad my mom died by Jeanette McCurdy. And it is heavier because it deals with a lot of really serious topics, It's it's phenomenal. It's about the relationship that she had with her mother, and she Kirsten Baritz: Is actually it's a little bit heavier. Okay. it's I'm glad my mom died by Jeanette McCurdy. And it is heavier because it deals with a lot of really serious topics, It's it's phenomenal. It's about the relationship that she had with her mother, and she Jackie: had a lot of issues being, you know, a child actor and her Kirsten Baritz: had a lot of issues being, you know, a child actor and her. Jackie: her mother really had a lot of issues. And Kirsten Baritz: Her mother really had a lot of issues. And Jackie: despite the name of the title, which it seems like she's very harsh, she writes this so well, you really could feel where she was coming from. Very emotional. Kirsten Baritz: despite the name of the title, which it seems like she's very harsh, she writes this so well, you really could feel where she was coming from. Very emotional. my final one is also an emotional pick, and it's The Day the World Came to Town by Jim DeFiti, which inspired Come From Away, the musical. It's about Jackie: Mm. Kirsten Baritz: 9-11 and the planes that were in the Jackie: And the Kirsten Baritz: air about to land that had to be diverted, and they were diverted into Gander, Newfoundland. Jackie: Mm-hmm. Kirsten Baritz: And it's a fantastic story, and there's a museum there, and you will cry and be emotional, but you will still be left with such hope. Yeah. Jackie: Yeah, Kirsten Baritz: The last thing that we're gonna talk about is our November 2026 Beyond the Bookends book club pick. And it's a fantastic one but we don't have to tell you about it because Bob Colker is here to talk to us about his book, The Vanishing Family. Jackie: here to talk to us about his book, The Vanishing Family. Kirsten: hi Bob, thanks for joining us today. Bob Kolker: Hello. Hi, I'm so glad to be talking with you both. you know, we we talked once before years ago and I really didn't forget it. I was really glad to come back for this book. Kirsten: That was what 2020? That was mid-COVID. Bob Kolker: Yeah. Kirsten: Yeah, that was that was something. That was a fabulous talk. That has stuck with me over all these years and Hidden Valley Road is still one of my favorite books I've ever read. Same, same. I think you might have Bob Kolker: Thanks. That's that's great to hear. Kirsten: actually been our first virtual interview for a book club Bob Kolker: right. Kirsten: many, many years, many moons ago. Bob Kolker: Yeah, I have memories early in talking on Zoom at big events and people still hadn't learned how to mute, you Kirsten: Mm-hmm. Bob Kolker: know, and the the the the the host is taking ten minutes to get people to hit the mute button and explaining them how where the mute button is. Kirsten: Ha ha ha Bob Kolker: Yeah, it was early. It was early in the the journey Kirsten: Yep. Bob Kolker: for all of us. Kirsten: for for sure. so tell us a little bit about your book Bob Kolker: I wasn't necessarily interested in writing about another family with a medical condition. a lot of families came to me and it all seemed too samey. I felt like the ground had been covered already. But then this family approached me and it was astonishing just how different it was. It with a family with schizophrenia, nobody knows what causes it. It's a complicated condition genetically. Kirsten: Mm. Bob Kolker: It could be nature, it could be nurture, it could be a little bit of both. Whereas this family came and said, we know exactly what's causing this. There's a genetic mutation. We can look at it on a slide. We can see it on the computer. And it is a mystery to us why we can't cure it tomorrow, given that there's gene editing out there. So that was the start. And then the the emotional terrain of the book was so different. Everybody in this family's been given a crystal ball, a chance to get tested for this mutation. And it, if they have it. It's a 50-50 chance. If they have it, it's it means early onset dementia. And not just memory dementia or cognition dementia, but behavior dementia where you are draining your bank account, maybe you start drinking. Like it's it's really difficult and difficult for the people around you. And so so it's hard for people to engage with emotionally, but also it speaks to the question of what our personalities are Kirsten: dementia but behavior dementia where you have a bank account, you start drinking, it's it's really difficult and difficult for the people around you. So so it's hard for people to engage with emotionally, but also it speaks to the question of what our personalities are. Bob Kolker: at all. If all it takes is one genetic mutation to change them. Kirsten: to change Bob Kolker: The the story of the family is a backdoor to studying Alzheimer's and the way that Alzheimer's might be treated one day. It's a backdoor into studying who we are as people and the nature of the self. And then, of course, it's an inspiring story of what people who love each other do for each other and how they meet each meet each Kirsten: the the the story of the family is a backdoor to studying Alzheimer's and the way that Alzheimer's might be treated one day. It's a backdoor into studying who we are as people and the nature of the self. And then of course it's an inspiring story of what people who love each other do for each other how they meet each meet. Bob Kolker: other and are there for each other when when their very identities are in the balance. And and so it it kind of took my breath away several different times in several different ways as I was working on it. Kirsten: When when their very identities and balance in and say it kind of sort of my breath away several different times in several different ways and some of the working on It reminded me this is totally a fiction book, but if you ever read The Immortalist Bob Kolker: No, I should read that. wow. Kirsten: by Chloe Benjamin, they they have this opportunity, these four siblings, to find out the day that they're gonna die. And it's Bob Kolker: wow. Kirsten: how are they gonna live their life now that they have this like death date in their head? And while reading this, I was kind of thinking that, like it's this question of how much do you wanna know? Is it better to know, is it not better to know, and ex exploring all of those things. Bob Kolker: Yeah, and and all of us, I think, are gonna ask ourselves that question in the years to come. Not maybe we won't be offered a crystal ball like this family, but we all wanna know are being wondering already how much do we really want to know? There's so many biomarkers now, so many tests you can take, quite often conditions you can't do anything about. They're testing peop in utero now for the possibility of diseases. And and so Kirsten: I didn't know that. Bob Kolker: that the our culture is becoming more and more fixated on on prognosticating illness. Kirsten: Mm-hmm. I was reading about the fact that they were thinking that they could do gene editing in the womb to like take away Down syndrome. Bob Kolker: Yeah. Yeah. And then of course there's a more yeah, of course then there are more more blunt ways to stop genetic diseases like that. you Kirsten: Right. Bob Kolker: screen them earlier and and with you can also screen embryos before implanting them. You could do IVF and only Kirsten: Yeah. Bob Kolker: implant the embryos that don't have certain mutations. That this is all happening. Kirsten: Well yeah, and I know I know someone who's going through IVF and they take them and do basically full genetic. But then that that's the question of like, so is your life not valuable if you're gonna have this thing like happen when you're 60? Your life isn't valuable prior to 60? Wow. Okay. There's I This is like blowing my mind. This goes on to so many things. But I loved Reading this because I actually did my master's thesis on dementia of the Alzheimer's type and the onset of Alzheimer's disease in people with Down syndrome. And it's because a hundred percent of people with Down syndrome actually have Alzheimer's and they and they think that it's related to the trisomy of the 21st gene. And so because I mean this has nothing to do with anything, but they start doing testing to see if they can figure out some of the language stuff to detect the Alzheimer's in people earlier. So this entire Bob Kolker: Interesting. Huh. Yeah the Kirsten: book is like blew my mind because the dementia it used to just be, you have Alzheimer's, right? And it and as we're getting more sophisticated and we're narrowing down a down you you learn there's all these different parts of it and as someone who hasn't been directly affected it was it was fascinating to read about this and understand just how complicated this is what do you think this book will do for this community Bob Kolker: I think I think the family came to me because they were because the fifteen years had gone by since they had been diagnosed and there had been so little progress in treating their disease. So they Kirsten: Mm. Bob Kolker: were hoping to be seen. And they see now that if it's a smaller disease affecting fewer people than Alzheimer's, the pharmaceutical companies aren't going to stand up and take notice unless Kirsten: Mm. Bob Kolker: you are out there making yourself known. But it still was a huge decision for them. It took them a lot of debate within the family whether to really come out with it because what if somebody in the family in their twenties applies for a job one day and they they hear the the employer hears that they their family was featured in a book about this and maybe there's Kirsten: their family would be able to mountain. Bob Kolker: dementia in their family you know it it that all kinds of what if scenarios. And we took I took steps to keep maintain the family's confidentiality and be sensitive to that, but it was a tough Kirsten: But if it's Bob Kolker: call for them. I think what they want is they they'd like to be on the map for testing cures for Alzheimer's and in a way they make a good case for it because they have a very Kirsten: And then the way they make the good piece for it can stay. Bob Kolker: simple genetic issue involving a protein that is a big deal in Alzheimer's. So they'd be a perfect test kitchen for any sort of drug that would get rid of that protein. they have too much tau protein. Then so do people with Alzheimer's. So if Kirsten: Mm-hmm. they have too much tau protein that people with Alzheimer's, so Bob Kolker: you were testing a drug to get rid of the tau protein, wouldn't you want to test it on a on a family that has a very clear cut tau condition so that it's not complicated just to see if it works. But no, they're in the Kirsten: Mm. Bob Kolker: back of the line, not the front of the line. And they they want to get Kirsten: They wanna get they want to go online for that and they're they're Bob Kolker: They want to glom onto that. And they're they're having some success that way, in part probably because of how much noise they've been making, how much organizing they've been doing, because of the New York Times magazine story that that I did a couple of years ago, that helped put them on the map too. So hopefully the book keeps that moving forward. Kirsten: I hope so. What do you want readers to know maybe before they pick up the book? Bob Kolker: Well, I think that they should know that it's an inspiring story and and and a heartwarming story. It it is scary, obviously, and it's positioned, you know, like a like a who will be next, kind of almost like a suspen suspenseful story, but it also is about how people grow up and mature and come into different roles in their family than what they had before. Kirsten: Mm. Bob Kolker: They might find a a lot relatable in it. And I think people should also know that it's that it's not a science book that there's there are interludes that help you with a little bit of scientific information, but y you're not gonna have to eat your vegetables when you know it's in the book. But it really it winds up being about children growing up in the in a mysterious family where difficult things are happening and those children growing up and thinking about how to be how to be grown ups now, how to, how to handle Kirsten: Right. Bob Kolker: the challenges of their lives. You see so many people stepping up for other people One superhero in the book, the sister named Sue, who doesn't just care for one sibling for 30 years, but cares for three others from time to time too. And and you you see so many people in the family all dealing with that crystal ball question. And so you can go shopping in your mind. You can go wandering and say, hey, you know, am I more like this person or would I be more like that person? It it could be it could be a helpful book to process some of our big fears. And we all are worried about dementia, that's for sure. Kirsten: It really was beautiful. It was the love that these siblings have for each other and Sue in particular is a total rock star. But it was it was so heartwarming, like you said, to see the love between siblings. It's it's it's really a beautifully done story. So thank you for writing it. Bob Kolker: Thank you. Kirsten Baritz: Doesn't that book sound absolutely phenomenal? We cannot wait to have this discussion with Bob Colker at the end of next month, just after Thanksgiving. If you would like to join us, we would love to see you there. You could ask all of your questions with him. We will drop the link in the show notes, but there's plenty of time to read it and join us for the discussion. Jackie: there's plenty of time to read it and join us for the discussion. But now it's time for the bookmark, and it is your turn. Ooh, Kirsten Baritz: But now it's time for the bookmark and it is your turn. the I am so excited for Peck and Peck by Bonnie Garma. So Jackie: I am so excited for Peck and Peck by Bonnie Garmouth. So I spoke a little bit about it. I finished this book. I loved it. I think I might have liked it even more than Lessons in Chemistry. What? I I I'm telling you. So Kirsten Baritz: I spoke a little bit about it. I finished this book. I loved it. I think I might have liked it even more than lessons in chemistry. What? I I'm telling you. So Wait, you did not tell me that when you read it. I know. If this was so many stars. Jackie: I know, I know. This was so many stars. Kirsten Baritz: this book is about Batter Gray. He is a twinless twin. He has decided that he wants to be a poet. Everyone keeps telling him you cannot be a poet. He wants to be a poet. They're saying, okay, what other genre can you can you? Jackie: this book is about Batter Gray. He is a twinless twin. He has decided that he wants to be a poet. Everyone keeps telling him you cannot be a poet. He wants to be a poet. They're saying, okay, what other genre can you can you get in order to be a poet? He ends up going to school and he is kind of floundering his way. Kirsten Baritz: Get in order to be a poet. He ends up going to school and he is kind of floundering his way through school, doing every single different kind of major. And he ends up getting a genre at Peck and Peck, which is a Jackie: Through school doing every single different kind of major. He And he ends up getting a genre at Peck and Peck, which is a poetry literary magazine Kirsten Baritz: Poetry literary magazine Peck and Peck Jackie: Peck and Peck. Is run and has always been run by a set of twins. Right now it's being run by one twin. The other one, we don't really know what happened to him. As the story progressed, we find out what happened with the other twin. There's kind of a rivalry between them. We see all these like Kirsten Baritz: is run and has always been run by a set of twins. Right now it's being run by one twin. The other one, we don't really know what happened to him. As the story progressed, we find out what happened with the other twin. There's kind of a rivalry between them. We see all these like Jackie: crazy editors who are working there. There's kind of like a little bit of a mystery of like what's going on at this magazine and Kirsten Baritz: Crazy editors who are working there. There's kind of like a little bit of a mystery of like what's going on at this magazine and what direction is the magazine going. And it's about publishing and poetry, and it's like poetry as a metaphor for life. And I have to say that even someone who doesn't like poetry, I think will really appreciate this book. It's kind of a love letter to the Jackie: What direction is the magazine going? And it's about publishing and poetry. And it's like poetry as a metaphor for life. And I have to say that even someone who doesn't like poetry, I think will really appreciate this book. It's kind of a love letter to the written word. And I love the way she develops the characters. I laughed out loud and I adored it. Kirsten Baritz: Written word and I love the way she develops the characters. I laughed out loud and I adored it. my god, that is such a glowing review. Just adored it. So Jackie: Such a glowing review. I just adored it. So Kirsten Baritz: So now we get to tell you that Jackie has taken her love for it and has written a summary for you and a book club question guide along with characters so that you Jackie: Along with characters for the you Kirsten Baritz: can read this at your book club with your friends because it is a good book club pick, right? Jackie: A it is a fantastic book club pick. it is long, it's over four hundred pages, but don't worry, I'll have all the characters, I'll have everything for you, so I'll do the hard work and you can just read and enjoy it. That leads us Kirsten Baritz: it is a fantastic book club pick. it is long, it's over 400 pages, but don't worry, I'll have all the characters, I'll have everything for you. So I'll do the hard work and you can just read it again. That leads us into the reader question. We are off next week and then we are back with November celebrity book club picks. So if you have any predictions, don't forget this is the time of year where sometimes they're choosing backlist. I'm I'm curious who's gonna pick a backlist this month. Jackie: I'm I'm curious who's gonna pick a backlist this month. Kirsten Baritz: I feel like it's gonna be Reese. I don't know why. Okay. But we'll see. I can't wait. We do have one spoiler up. Jackie: Okay. But we'll see. I can't wait. We do have one spoiler up. Kirsten Baritz: That's right. I forgot. How could I not imagine that? That's right. We have one spoiler up. So if you want to check out the website and see a spoiler, we're not gonna say what it is here, but feel free to go onto the website and have a look. I don't know how you got that so early. You are the queen. I don't know, but Jackie: We have one spoiler up. So if you want to check out the website and see a spoiler, we're not gonna say what it is here, but feel free to go onto the website and have a look. I don't know how you got that so early. You are the queen. I don't know, but Kirsten Baritz: the November DMA, we do know what it is. So that is all from us. Like, follow, subscribe. We want to see you back in a couple of weeks. And happy reading. Jackie: And happy reading.