Latest / Millennial Mustard Seed / S2 18. Artist Steven Sawyer – Controversial Art 4 God

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S2 18. Artist Steven Sawyer – Controversial Art 4 God · Millennial Mustard Seed

0:24
We are back at it again, here on the millennial Mustard Seed.
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Pod cast, thank you for being here with me for another
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episode. I got Steve Sawyer here from
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Hartford God, if you don't know the name, you definitely know
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his artwork. He's got paintings all around
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the country, very diverse and influential artist.
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So it's an honor to have him on the show.
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What we talked about, dude, this is the real deal.
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This episode is legit. Just give it a listen, all the
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way through. I met him about 10 plus years
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ago and didn't even know who it was that I have met at the time
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and how we reconnect and just everything that happens.
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It's an amazing story. You guys Listen, I digress.
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We're going to jump right into this one.
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Let's go. Welcome to the show everybody.
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I got a really special guest here, I have Steve Sawyer here
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from art for God. It's nice to connect with you
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again. I'm glad you found me.
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Absolutely. So tonight, I'd like to get into
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a couple different topics. We're going to, you know, we
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already talked about this before the recording.
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We're going to kind of wing it but we do have an idea of what
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we feel is an important thing to talk about and that's going to
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be you know just sharing our gift, right.
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Playing our Park in this life that we're living.
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You know, where the mystery of God, unravels.
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In the strange ways, it doesn't always happen in the four
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corners of the church. Sometimes, the most significant
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things that happen are Outfield or a parking lot or building
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somewhere. I mean, it can be anywhere.
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I would like you to, you know, kind of tell the audience where
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your hearts at with this artwork that has really changed the
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world. I mean there's this is
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significant so walk us into kind of how you started our You found
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the passion and yeah. Paint the picture for us there.
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Steve-O paint a picture. That's cool.
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I like that. Thanks.
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I do pretty well, you know, everybody's story really starts
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when they're pretty young. I had my first child like
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experience with God when I was a really young boy, it actually is
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about the same time I found out. I was an artist so I had these
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two Sprouts growing up side by side and occasionally they would
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intertwined and sometimes They wouldn't.
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But over the years it became really clear to me that I wanted
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them to be like, Twin Oaks twin Mighty Oaks that thankfully grew
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together. You've seen trees that grow
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side-by-side and Branch kind of grows in and and the two trees
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become one in many ways. Yeah.
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Well, they've got separate root structures and, and I think
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that's what happened to me. I remember a few decisions
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growing up in my life. Life in a few experiences that
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made me enjoy and it's same time actually being embarrassed by
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being a really tender hearted person.
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There were a few sermons that I heard when I was a kid that that
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really moved me. Not too many but there were a
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few and I guess I never really had a problem with God's I
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always believed God, but I wasn't always sure how to get
3:35
correct information about god. Wow.
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You know, there's some things I heard in church that I never
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believed about God and and there's some things in church
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that did believe, you know. So I had to kind of sort through
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it because in the end it ends up being a very personal
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experience. You know, as far as I'm
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concerned, anybody's looking for God's a friend of mine and I
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respect the fact that different cultures and different
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environmental circumstances and life experiences sometimes
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unfold and lead us down paths that Yeah.
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That are maybe a little different and so I remember when
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art for God first started taking off, you know, I was getting a
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lot of interviews. I don't know, I probably did
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several hundred of them and and I think all told counting
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digital newspapers and physical newspapers, we top 400 that
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included pictures of my art and You know, it got to be.
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It was very thrilling. It was exciting to try to share
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what my vision was. My number one Focus, was that I
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understood experientially and intellectually and spiritually
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that, there was actually a big difference between the religion
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of Jesus, and the religion about Jesus.
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I've gravitationally pulled towards the religion of Jesus,
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which meant that you Have more fun on the highways and the
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byways. And just like you're saying, you
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know, the in the opportunity to have spiritual encounters.
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With other people are really significant when you are serving
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in areas, that may not be the traditional areas of service.
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Man, I just, I fell in love with God and the more I learned about
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God, the more I studied the religion of Jesus, which you can
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pretty much write on the back of a business card.
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I probably have, you know, several hundred books that refer
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to the religion about Jesus which includes hundreds and
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hundreds of different denominations within
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Christianity. And Jesus himself, said A house
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divided against itself, cannot stand and so there were some
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Something to me, that was sad. There's a really sad component
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missing because it felt like there were a lot of people
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arguing about Doctrine, Dogma the things.
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You can say, can't say the types of prayers, you're supposed to
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pray, whether it's literal whether there's any room to
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navigate around the scriptures, you know, we all have to find
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God on our own. You can read a thousand books,
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but sooner or later it ends up being between you and God.
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And hopefully the books that you read and the experiences, you
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have become a stable scaffold upon which you reach for the
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hand of God and reach in towards all things that are Divine and
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holy and try to fill your self in such a way that you might see
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people, the way Jesus might see people and listen to people in a
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different way. And try to speak to people in a
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different way and tried to become the living extension of
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what Jesus asked us to become, you know, I've got this
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broadcast and I've slowed down on right now.
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I think I've done, it's called closet church.
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It's live on Facebook. And the first two years, I did
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it. I hardly missed a day.
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So and then I'm in my third year.
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So who knows? I've got between five and seven
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hundred broadcasts. A lot of times, I don't quote
7:24
Capture it all, I'm trying to talk to the people that are are
7:28
not sure about. God, I'm not going after the
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people that can quote scripture and try to talk me down, they
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don't need my help, they're just trying to prove that they're
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smarter than me. Maybe they are, maybe they
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aren't but the people who've had their hearts broken, the people
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who have looked for God and been hurt by the church or been hurt
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by people who have professed to know the will of God.
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Projecting it into someone else's life.
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Instead of cleaning up their own backyard, there are thousands
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and thousands of people out there that just want to hear a
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friendly voice that makes God seem real kind reminding us how
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important it is to really forgive people, including
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yourself, which is one of the biggest challenges of all.
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There are a lot of people that say, they forgive people all the
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time, but they haven't forgiven themselves.
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You got a long way to go. You got to say that nice but
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it's true. I was reading a book in a
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cafeteria where I worked and I read something and this is back
8:30
in 1975. That's pretty quick segue in it
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but, you know, you asked me a question.
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I realized that was Meandering quite a bit.
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I think we were getting really deep really quick, which I love
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to do on the show because honestly, at the end of the day,
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people tuned in for what's real. Yeah, you know where everybody's
8:50
been on the show? They know, I don't write out a
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bunch of questions. I see there's something
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significant about the person that I invite on the show that I
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want the audience to see a piece of what I see in them.
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And then it always goes so much deeper than that.
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Yeah, but I'm going to go on a parallel track which will take
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this to our meeting. I've been to a lot of different
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denominations and I have worshipped with a lot of
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different people from different religions.
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If you're always thinking that you're the only holy person in
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the crowd. You'll never really learn much
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thinking that your religion has to be the right way.
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And the only way, when Jesus said, you know, I came for Jew
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and Gentile alike If he were to say it today, he probably would
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include a few extra words. Like, you know, how big is,
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what's considered Gentile, that which is not Jewish.
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There is one God word that Creator to actually become a
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human being. He would speak and act exactly
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the way Jesus of Nazareth did, To understand God we don't have
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to go any farther than embracing the loving character.
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The incredible loving unselfish service, not only in word, but
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in deed, that the Jesus exemplified because he did good
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as he walked by, You know, he didn't wait till he showed up at
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a synagogue, he didn't wait till he stood up someplace in the
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middle of Jerusalem challenging Authority.
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Everywhere he went. He clearly felt There's an
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opportunity to love and serve somebody.
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And if we were brave enough just to do that without judging
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people that saying oh I'll love you as soon as you convert to
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Christianity or whatever you know, just something Or
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withholding because we're afraid somebody's different, somebody
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believes different have an open mind and an open heart, treat
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everyone. Not only as the Good Samaritan,
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but as if they needed the Good Samaritan, we all need.
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We all need someone to help us grow and learn better without
11:05
prejudice without fear, hard thing to do sometimes because,
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you know, some organized religions create a pretty
11:14
Comfort zones and you feel like well, I can play in this
11:18
sandbox, the rest of my life long, as I don't go outside
11:21
there. And sometimes, you know, you lob
11:24
stuff at people in different sandboxes.
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And next thing, you know, it's rocks and sticks and mortar
11:30
shells. And and I think some of the
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things we do almost leave God speechless.
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As we, you know, pursue this idea of self righteousness or,
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you know, thinking we're the chosen people, it's a tough
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call, it offends, some people. But, you know, I always try to
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think what the son of man would do because it wasn't just the
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Son of God and in art, you know, the earliest art was yeah, like
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the Catholic church was a great benefactor of early artists, but
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we had what I call the touch-me-not Jesus, you know.
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He was either injure or on a cross or glowing as he came out
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of the Resurrection. The people that fell in love
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with the son of man, that story the one that did good as he
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walked by the one that loved the publicans and sinners.
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That's a heroic person worth following.
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And when I was reading that book in the basement of that
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cafeteria, it said something like You know, it's a shame that
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the back, then, it was the 20th century, the 20th century
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artists have failed to portray the master showing his kindness,
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his humor, his Mercy, his compassion.
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It was just I'm paraphrasing but that struck me like a door
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opened and the wind blew right through me.
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It was like I want that job. I want that job.
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I volunteered at that very moment when I read that because
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I knew that I wanted to be that guy Or one of the people, you
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know, just when you volunteer, you just, you take it on and I
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thought I was ready. You know, 1975 just got the
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College of. I have my act together and I
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just heard from God. And what I found out was that
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didn't mean I was qualified to do anything yet.
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So I ended up spending the next 20 years.
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Literally, I was in my 20s. And, and for 20 years, I improve
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my art skills. I improve my understanding Of
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Jesus, of Nazareth better understanding of religions of
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the world. So, somewhere with a whole bunch
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of strange things that happened in that 20-year period.
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I also was looking for a Jesus model, that was fascinating
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because, you know, is that that 20 years is rolling by when you
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get near the end of the nineteen years, you're starting to think
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you made it all up. Yeah, you know, I've maybe,
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maybe it's true. Maybe I'll do it.
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Maybe I won't, I don't know. I had an opportunity.
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A friend of mine was going to Israel.
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People were having a party to supposedly celebrate.
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The 2000th birthday of Jesus and I knew a couple of people that
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were going and I like them so I joined I went with a group.
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It's like, okay, now I'm going to look for people to be my
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Jesus model, cut us stared at a lot of men made some men
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uncomfortable and sometimes it made me really uncomfortable,
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but I would just look at people and I would try to Have that
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kind of Eagle Vision where you're actually seeing someone's
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character as well as their physique because I don't think
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any of us know what Jesus looked like.
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I certainly don't think he was a blond-haired blue-eyed
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Anglo-Saxon and I don't even know that his hair was long.
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That's supposedly was an addition from the Middle Ages
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but I don't know. I had to find a Jesus model and
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this one I'm going to do. I'm going to paint Jesus, a new
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and dynamic way I'm gonna, you know, I'm going to focus on
15:04
them. Religion of Jesus, the son of
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man you know which means you don't do a lot of traditional
15:09
things where you take a scripture and you do a painting
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around the scripture, I would do a painting based on a real
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living experience and then I'd look to see if I could find a
15:19
scripture to match it. Truth.
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Truth, you know. Yeah.
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No. Anyway at the end of that 20th
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year that ended up in a place where I had lost really
15:33
important art job instead of being angry and resentful at the
15:38
people that that did that. Because, you know, when you're
15:41
an artist, you know, you might work with other people, but if
15:44
you're not working, nobody else is bringing the money in.
15:49
And I just was at peace with the fact that I had no word the
15:54
decisions I made led me to go places that I might not
15:57
otherwise go and I found myself sitting on a couch inside, my
16:02
studio looking out across the street, one day.
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And, and I saw a guy walking across the street, and I went,
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oh my God, this is downtown Versailles Kentucky.
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Right, so I jumped up ran across the street.
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I still don't recall whether I look left or right, but I did,
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and I tempt him on the shoulder. And he turned around.
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I said I've been looking for you for 20 years.
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He smiled we had a short conversation where I told him
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who I was what I wanted to do. And he said okay.
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And that's Tyrone. Dove Gardner.
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One of the nicest people I've ever met in my life.
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That was my Jesus modeled the entire time.
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And in terms of that character that I was trying to pierce the
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veil of how somebody look to find real character in the 20
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years or something, we've worked together.
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I have never once regretted the who is a model for the Son of
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God not once. So you know, I do my first
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painting the second one and their stories.
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With every single painting we started looking for places to go
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because I knew if I was going to do this Rod, I would have to get
17:13
in front of an audience. So we tried ichthus which was
17:17
you know one of the I think it was like the first outdoor
17:20
Christian Festival in America. Right in the heart of Kentucky,
17:25
we did ichthus a few times and then we found out about creation
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East. Uh-huh.
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Yeah. And next time, I know, and for
17:34
people that don't know anything about creation East, it was one
17:37
of the most impactful things that I've ever experienced
17:40
because we were up on top of a big hill in the permanent open
17:44
structure, looking down to a stage, where, the people were
17:48
really tiny. We were up there in the booth,
17:51
Looking Through the Wire. It was a big wire mesh, and we
17:56
saw candle flames. People were lighting candles and
18:01
turning around, and lighting, the candle of the people behind
18:03
them. And we're up on top of the hill.
18:06
And we are watching this wave of flame.
18:09
Crawl up the mountain toward us and I was overwhelmed, I thought
18:13
it was just one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.
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And I did a painting based on that.
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Yeah, I remember seeing that too, and it's very significant
18:21
what you're talking about here. And I didn't see the painting on
18:24
it, but I was there for that. And if people could really just
18:27
understand like There's probably 200 thousand people in a valley
18:32
is usually about 100,000, but, you know, co-founding looks like
18:36
a million people looks like, yeah, I mean, from where I was
18:39
standing up near you, it looks like a million people really
18:42
does, but everybody lighting that candle, and as it travels
18:45
back, and there's just a feeling of Peace in that Valley going
18:48
with the story. I just wanted to highlight that.
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Yes, being on the back side of the table, you know, I would see
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the number of people that stopped in their jaws dropped.
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You know what? Big banner sticking out and
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somehow it just seemed like, I could, I could tell maybe, I
19:06
could. Maybe I couldn't.
19:07
And your case I could that that there was somebody that
19:11
genuinely deserve the art and may not have the money for it.
19:16
And, you know, my idea of ministry and this is no
19:20
disrespect to Thomas Kincade. But I saw some of the
19:25
shenanigans that he would do, like, Having an authorized
19:30
signature or having his hair cut and having the DNA in the ink
19:35
and having people dim the lights and act like there's magic in
19:40
the room or some crap like that, you know.
19:42
Yeah. And then the people that I knew
19:45
that were lovely Christians, but this may not be a fair broad
19:49
stroke but there were times where it absolutely felt like,
19:52
they were more excited that they can show that they could afford
19:55
to buy Thomas Kincade, then the fact that they're made In a
19:59
spiritual value to the painting. Absolutely.
20:02
And you know that was one of the first decisions I made was I'm
20:05
not going to ever ever, ever do that, never do that.
20:10
It doesn't mean I don't have canvas reproductions that you
20:13
can spend over $1000 on but my open Edition and my limited
20:19
edition were immediately available all the same time.
20:23
Normally you do the limited edition, it's where you make the
20:26
money and then after that, He's out then you do the open
20:30
auditions like but this is Ministry feel, right?
20:32
So I broke a lot of rules joyfully I didn't care what
20:37
anybody thought, gave me the opportunity.
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When I meet somebody that was really sincere of heart and God,
20:44
I'd really like for this person to have this.
20:47
I can tell that might be a really important Catalyst for
20:50
what God wants to do, because I really think my Arts more like a
20:55
catalyst, I don't know that the art has any more significance.
20:59
It's than it puts somebody in a place where there were septic
21:02
for what God wants to do in their life.
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God, I've met all kinds of people.
21:07
I've met people who say God, finished painting their
21:09
painting. I've met people said this is
21:13
this is actual gold. Dust.
21:14
Fell on the painting from heaven and I'll look at it Go marriage
21:18
that's glitter. I'm sorry.
21:20
Yeah, I think God can do better than glitter, you know, and, and
21:24
it's just some people just need magic in their lives.
21:27
Some people who want to validate their efforts by appearing to
21:33
have been touched by the miraculous.
21:35
Yeah. Yeah.
21:36
And you know, I I don't I don't celebrate them, but I don't
21:41
judge them. I just, I kept finding over and
21:45
over things that I would never stoop to for me for what I
21:49
wanted to do. Yeah.
21:52
And then there's this guy one time that showed up my booth and
21:54
it's happened more than once. And, and I offered to give this
22:01
guy, the print that he wanted. I don't remember what size it
22:05
was, and I just sincerely said that you can pay me Whenever you
22:09
can afford it. And I felt like that was real
22:13
Ministry to because Jesus trusted the Twelve Apostles
22:18
Jesus trusted us. Jesus still trusts us, God gave
22:24
imperfect beings the opportunity to serve him fully mindful of
22:30
how much would screw up. Trust trust is a has a
22:35
magnificent motor to it. It helps the person build their
22:38
character. You were one of the people that
22:41
I gave a print to and trusted to pay me later.
22:46
And, you know, I think maybe I might have done that five times
22:50
Rod not a lot because I, you know, I didn't want to make a
22:55
charlatan out of myself but then, you know, you go to enough
23:00
conferences, you meet some people, you go.
23:02
I really want you to have this. In when you can afford to pay
23:05
me, you do that. I will say that.
23:08
I think everybody. Yells paid me years before you
23:10
did. Well, let me jump in real quick.
23:14
A turn for the audience. I would like to paint a little
23:17
bit of the back story leading up to the first time that we met
23:20
also. Okay, so I know the audience,
23:23
there's people that have asked me to do an explanation if you
23:26
will, you know, there's a lot of listeners from around the world
23:30
at this point and I believe God's sending out these these
23:34
podcast episodes to the people that need to hear.
23:36
It's that's what's important to me.
23:39
Me. I don't I'm not a numbers guy,
23:40
but I really do believe. There's people that can relate
23:43
to this content that it makes them smile.
23:45
It makes them question things. And but anyway at this time in
23:49
my life, I had a really good life all the way up until I'd
23:52
say about 14, 15 years old. I mean, we had our family
23:55
troubles and things but our lives started to turn
23:58
drastically, you know, started with, you know, it's horrible
24:01
motorcycle accident with my dad and then my mother being
24:04
diagnosed with cancer. And then slowly losing our
24:07
family home and and everything. My parents that ever worked for,
24:10
but during this period in time I you know I got a girl pregnant
24:14
and had a set of twins on the way party one night wrong place,
24:18
wrong time and I got beat up by a group of guys like really bad,
24:22
you know, not like I got a black guy.
24:23
I mean, these guys tried to kill me.
24:25
I've talked about this on the show before but I just want
24:27
people to understand the dynamic of where I was at this time in
24:32
life. You know, this is surround 2009
24:35
somewhere somewhere around there, I'm not perfect with
24:37
timeline but long enough. Ago and I my mother pulls me
24:41
along to Creation one year, you know, she say no you got to see
24:44
this as a bunch of cool. Humble Christian people that are
24:47
going to go and I'm really battling depression and
24:50
post-traumatic stress from having a minor Out of Body
24:54
Experience from the beating. I took you know there so I had a
24:57
big question mark in my head. Oh what do I really do now?
25:00
You know, I seen as different religions pointing fingers at
25:03
each other saying we're right, you're wrong, you're right,
25:05
we're wrong and I dismissed all of it because now I'm going to
25:09
Experiencer of, never say, I died.
25:11
But Steve, I started setting up out of my body, you know, my
25:14
brain swelled up on was tapping. The inside of my skull.
25:17
Well, I was very close to death but recovering from that is the
25:20
next summer and I decided to go to Creation kind of on a whim
25:24
and at the time, you know, still smoking weed and still kind of
25:28
partying around and I wasn't, I wasn't living, no tighten our
25:31
life. That's a whole different story
25:33
about how I surrendered my heart to Jesus that was in a You know
25:38
a few years after our original meeting, but I was captivated.
25:41
So I go up to Creation. I don't know what to expect.
25:45
You know, I'm hearing people talk about their encounters
25:47
there. This is so holy, this is so
25:49
great. Other people say it's media.
25:50
I mean, I've heard a little bit of all of it, but I go and I'm
25:53
saying really in the secrecy of my heart.
25:56
I don't know why I'm here. But Lord, there's got to be a
25:59
reason, you know, I try to explain to people that there's
26:02
the small tugging, I call it. It's kind of like a little
26:05
magnet in the belly and it can kind of lead.
26:07
Adieu and there's also a bad one, you know, don't
26:10
misconstrued what lost or attraction can look like that
26:13
can lead to bad things, but I'm talking about a pure thing, the
26:16
mystery of really something inside of me saying, I have to
26:19
go experience this. Well, that's what I did and that
26:22
night. I ended up at the top of the
26:24
hill at your booth. Okay?
26:27
You guys are there at that permanent structure and your
26:29
setup and I'm skimming through everybody's work.
26:33
I mean, you know, people making handmade bags, you have
26:37
Different artworks people are doing face painting.
26:39
It really is, like a wild tribe of people who want a valley with
26:43
musicians and a river to be then it was kind of a gnarly couple
26:47
days, but I find myself standing there and I'm looking at your
26:51
painting. And I just remember, I couldn't
26:55
turn away. I just couldn't turn away
26:58
because Jesus is typically depicted through ART through the
27:03
centuries holier-than-thou and he is, he is the name above all
27:07
names and every knee will bow but the humanity side of him was
27:11
hard for me to see because I never had it depicted in a
27:15
manner that really made sense to my young mind especially as a
27:19
doubting or unbeliever at the time.
27:21
If you'd like to think of me that way I'm thinking of myself
27:25
looking back. You know you see him in the
27:28
crucifixion at the resurrection you know the Easter Bunny and
27:32
him or hanging out together on Resurrection weekend at the
27:35
churches. And but I see this painting And
27:39
there's a guy who's looked like my grandfather, you know, he
27:43
looks like my cousin who's still in jail.
27:45
Now he looks like a lot of family members and friends that
27:49
I've known from that point until, you know, until today
27:54
even and he sticking a needle in his arm and he's, he's a
28:00
tough-looking dude, you know, he's in a room, there's a skull
28:03
on the table, there's a burning cigarette in an ashtray,
28:05
numchucks on the door handle. You know, he's You some seedy
28:10
little apartment or efficiencies renting from downtown but yet,
28:15
here's Jesus. And in your painting Steve,
28:20
there was something that Twisted me up on the inside to think,
28:25
does Jesus really bear? That kind of Burden with
28:29
screw-ups because I really did that didn't connect for me.
28:33
Thought there was the church world and then there's the world
28:35
and then there's like the sacred secular divide and you can ever
28:38
merge the two together. At least.
28:40
This is what my young mind. Did people who know, me know,
28:43
I'm on a mission to break down the wall a little bit and
28:46
identify the fact that we're not also Current and uh you know
28:49
religion not so much but relationship with Jesus is key.
28:53
So this is what a very significant moment and I know we
28:57
talked a little bit about this. Maybe a few months ago gave you
29:00
a little bit of backstory but as I thought about it this is a
29:05
really influential moment. I don't know you.
29:09
I don't know who you are. I had no idea.
29:10
You have wall paintings and countries all around the world,
29:13
depicting this painting. I couldn't tell if you were just
29:17
a local guy who painted Out of a shed down the street or some,
29:20
some up-and-coming artist. I had no idea none of that meant
29:23
nothing. But when I looked at that
29:25
painting it grabbed a hold of me, And I don't remember the
29:30
exact words you use, but I kind of want to give it back over to
29:34
you now. You know, I wanted to paint the
29:35
picture for the audience pun intended, to see the fact that,
29:39
you know, there's this broken young man who's starting this
29:42
journey of life and is very early 20s, if not late, teens at
29:46
that time. Early twenties and the world had
29:50
came at me, you know, and I seen some false things and I had some
29:53
questions. And here's a piece of artwork,
29:55
that grabs a hold of me. And I reached in my pocket,
29:59
there's no money there and you say to me, I'm going to give you
30:04
this painting here. And when you get things in order
30:09
and you're able to pay me for you gather their find me, you
30:13
reach out to me but I want you to have it and brother you know,
30:17
as a young man, I'm holding back tears because I'm thinking to
30:19
myself, what like that doesn't happen like like nobody gives
30:24
things away like it's just that doesn't happen, Okay?
30:28
But it should it should and it did and it did.
30:32
And here we are in 2021 and I'm getting emotional.
30:36
And just riding through the memories.
30:38
I have such a vivid memory of the people who know me.
30:41
I have an excellent memory. It's one of the only good things
30:43
I got going for me, you know, coming full circle seeing if we
30:54
just love people, look for opportunity, if we have the
30:57
ability to identify a need and we meet that need, that's plan
31:05
in the seed, that's water in the seed, only God gets the glory
31:09
for the growth. And this is what he received
31:13
Jesus doing. We see him going out and like
31:15
you said, he's not just oh, let's wake up and go to the
31:19
synagogue and put on the show on the road.
31:23
You know he stops and he weeps when his I think is his
31:26
brother-in-law dies, right Lazarus, he weeps with the
31:30
people there, you know, Jesus was the visible image of God at
31:35
all times that he was here and I think people not to go too far
31:38
down a rabbit Trail, but I think people need to remember the New
31:41
Testament was written on behalf of his arrival, okay?
31:45
All they had was the Old Testament and here is Jesus
31:48
working miracles. Doing?
31:49
What? No other man could do and being
31:52
the essence of what? I believe people all over the
31:55
world regardless of what religion they say they're
31:57
involved with. God says, I will take the hand
32:00
of those who don't know, which way to go.
32:03
Yay, He's chasing down our hearts at the end of the day,
32:07
even though we may think we're seeking him out.
32:12
I wish I could tell the story. I'm not sure that well I'm going
32:22
to be and her a little bit. I'm gonna dance around that and
32:25
if I can pull up a way to say it, I will when I first started
32:29
realizing that my art was going to be significantly different or
32:33
caused controversy, first obvious, controversial painting,
32:38
even though I had people angry at me, when I did the Door of
32:41
Hope, Jesus hit the door knocking.
32:44
Seriously. but the first one was, when I decided that I
32:49
wanted because, you know, when we listen, I think one of the
32:52
biggest challenges for someone who has any desire to
32:57
spiritually, serve and spiritually, serving means you
33:01
can physically serve It's just the motive.
33:04
What's the intent of your service?
33:06
You know, one of the cruelest things that's ever happened, as
33:10
far as I'm concerned, in organized, religion is to turn,
33:15
tithing into a magic show. Oh, well, you quote some
33:18
scripture in cycle, God, if you give $10 Jesus going to give you
33:22
1,000, you know. And then next thing, you know,
33:26
it's not a sacrifice, it's really a subtle bribe.
33:30
You're making deals with God. Okay?
33:33
You said in this scripture, if I did this, you're going to say,
33:36
well maybe maybe maybe, maybe not.
33:40
I've seen people give and serve with a hidden agenda and we're
33:45
not supposed to let the left hand know what the right hand is
33:48
doing. That's exactly of and serve
33:50
selflessly without expecting something in return.
33:55
So, you know, I did undefeated with Jesus as a prize fighter.
33:59
And then I did no appointment necessary Jesus with the tattoo
34:04
because I met Christian, bikers, and I'm thinking, you know, when
34:08
I first started meeting them in this is early on.
34:11
And with art for God, they still on the outside.
34:15
They were still often very intimidating in their
34:18
appearance. Yeah.
34:20
And then you meet them and you finally understand what a
34:23
broken. And contrite spirit is you you,
34:26
if you realize you're seeing a new creature in Christ.
34:29
Ice. And at that time, I was still
34:32
hearing some pastors explain from the pulpit.
34:36
The, you know that tattoos are you know, this all this crap
34:40
hola you know and and they're, they're seven Leviticus, you
34:44
know, down somebody's throat that's actually a prodigal son,
34:48
they're not honoring and respecting them.
34:49
They're still there, still there lost in there liturgy.
34:55
They're just, you know, so when I did Jesus with the tattoo Oh,
34:59
that. That was my way of doing an
35:01
open-hand, slap to organized religion that criticize these
35:06
people because unfortunately, a lot of the biker groups ended up
35:10
falling into the same traps that a lot of Christian denominations
35:14
did because you can't just have one biker group.
35:17
Now there was no heroic leadership from the church where
35:22
we have 10, 20, different biker groups and and they're carrying
35:25
on often times sometimes with the same.
35:29
Mmmmm subtle, egotistic are groups better than your group
35:33
and it's it's a tragedy that the people that could have welcomed
35:38
The Prodigal, Son home in unity failed to do so.
35:45
But, you know, watching those people, you know, I just over
35:51
time, I knew that I had to come up with a new paradigm.
35:56
I knew I had to deal with drug addiction. and and, you know, I
36:01
knew about the passage, I will never leave you or forsake.
36:06
You and in all of your afflictions, I'm also afflicted.
36:11
And all the people I knew that had gone through that drug
36:16
Gauntlet and had their lives beaten up or destroyed.
36:20
I'd never met one of them that thought God was there with him.
36:26
Wow. And I knew that that that was my
36:31
responsibility to let them know that they were children of the
36:36
same. Loving God, they may be the one
36:39
that was lost. God left the 99, the knew how to
36:42
tie their shoelaces and went after the one that lost his
36:45
shoes, you know what I mean? Wow, but, you know, the very
36:49
first time I showed Calvary was a Texas and I didn't know if I
36:54
was going to get run out of town or not because I made an 8-foot
36:57
Banner of And the first guy that was early on in the very first
37:04
day, I had everything set and I was really nervous because I
37:07
didn't know, but there was a man young man, everybody seems young
37:13
to me now but probably in his 30s, and he had his daughter
37:17
with him and she'd come up and be jabbering this jabbering,
37:21
that just lovingly and it's centered and go.
37:24
Look at the bookmarks, it's in, go over there.
37:26
Look at that stuff, she won't. I'm just asking to hang around
37:29
my booth and he just stood there and he stared and he stared and
37:33
he stared at Calvary, and I just waited and waited and waited.
37:37
And then he finally said this, is all that he said and then he
37:41
left. I've been in that room.
37:48
I knew my painting was right. I always did but just that kind
37:55
of sincere. Broken recognition.
38:01
And maybe it was something in his eyes that showed up in your
38:05
eyes. Maybe, there's something about
38:07
the expression of that first person.
38:11
That just couldn't break away from the visual impact of
38:17
calvary. Maybe that was just burned into
38:21
my soul and maybe I saw that in your eyes.
38:24
Wow. I definitely am still moved by
38:35
all of it. I know Steve that painting that
38:39
you gave me has been hanging in every apartment and house since
38:45
then from Jacksonville Florida back to Philadelphia,
38:49
Pennsylvania. Let me try to get back on track
38:53
here and keep the show going. So good luck with that, right?
38:58
Well you're having a good time, it got so good.
39:01
That like let's just Ride the wave for a minute, you know.
39:04
Yeah, please cuz you know, I the thing that I love about your
39:08
show is because when people Pre send you questions for they ask
39:16
really? Typical questions didn't then
39:21
you find your answering things you go.
39:23
Got up said the same thing before.
39:25
This doesn't sound, you know, the things that I have shared
39:30
with you and your audience, most of it, I've never even said
39:34
before and that's exciting for me because I get to relive.
39:40
What I invested my life in, I get to go back and remember
39:45
moments with a new kind of clarity and I really appreciate
39:49
the opportunity to do that. So thank you absolutely
39:53
mandatory. That's exactly what I try to
39:55
capture with, you know, Supernatural content, people
39:59
depicting encounters with lights in the sky, all the way down to
40:02
men and women of Faith. You know, the real heroes who
40:06
just choose, what's right over wrong.
40:09
Yeah, yeah, that's the I've got to jump in on that because
40:12
that's wonderful. So this is one of the things
40:16
forgive me for interrupting, but I think this will be relevant.
40:19
Absolutely. One of the things that I have
40:22
talked about on closet Church, many times over the years.
40:27
Is to try to dismantle this notion that we were born in sin
40:32
and if you believe it, forgive me, just allow me to speak.
40:36
And and I'm not saying I'm right, but I want to have the
40:39
opportunity to share this because There's something very
40:45
broken about thinking. That all the cards are stacked
40:52
against us and that God wouldn't love us until he saw his
40:57
blameless, son, bleeding and dying on the cross of calvary.
41:02
There's something broken. in a system that says you were born
41:07
in sin, because the flip side of that coin is an Exquisite
41:15
knowledge and understanding that we were born in perfect on
41:20
purpose. And it's a gift.
41:24
It's a gift. It's a Divine gift to have.
41:27
The free will to choose to do. Good over evil.
41:31
It's a Divine gift to choose courage over fear.
41:36
It's a Divine gift to be able to choose service over selfishness.
41:43
These are the ways in which our spiritual character, grows if we
41:47
automatically did everything right.
41:53
It be I mean, sure, I'm sure there's some beings that in this
41:59
wonderful universe that are born perfect.
42:03
But but I wouldn't trade places with them. in fact, I would say
42:11
quite honestly that if they could experience a little bit of
42:15
Sorrow that almost borders on the Divine expression of what
42:19
jealousy is, To know that we have by our own free will, the
42:25
opportunity to choose eternal life, over a mammalian life,
42:31
that self-centered lazy procrastinates and there's all
42:34
the stupid things that mammals do, it's a Divine gift to be
42:38
born in perfect. We can turn our imperfection
42:41
into Glory. Dispense, which way you flip the
42:48
coin? Yeah, it reminds me of where the
42:52
Apostle Paul says, I will boast in my weakness for in my
42:56
weakness, his powers made best-known and if you know it
43:00
wasn't like a he was dreading the fact but you know all of us
43:04
have to like you said earlier in the episode we have to come and
43:08
meet God in a personal encounter if there's ever going to be a
43:12
spiritual growth, we can show up to everybody.
43:15
Study. And we can go and listen to all
43:17
the different teachings and we can bra band it across multi to
43:22
denominations so that we can sound like we're intelligent and
43:26
have a good response, no matter who we're talking with, but a
43:30
broken and a contrite spirit. The Lord has never rejected.
43:34
It was an honor to have you here on the show.
43:36
And do you want to let the audience know where they can
43:39
find your work? Well, yeah, thanks for your
43:42
website. Yeah, nice idea.
43:43
Well, Website is art for God.com, aart the number for geo
43:51
d.com. I mean, I've got way too many
43:54
websites, but art for gog.com is the one that is absolutely
43:59
relevant everything we've discussed today.
44:01
That is that's my heart. That's my truth.
44:05
That's my gift that's giving back and so I hope you'll go and
44:12
on Facebook. It's it's a Facebook for it's
44:15
slash art for God but you can look up Steven Sawyer as well as
44:20
teph Iain is a wi. ER, and if somebody really wants
44:25
to find you you know you can help that's the show everybody.
44:30
I thank you guys for tuning in for another episode.
44:32
Here with me on a millennial must see podcast.
44:35
If this episode encouraged you and made you laugh, made you
44:38
think deeper about the real topics that all of us have to
44:42
face sooner or later? I asked you was share it with a
44:45
friend. And coming to you from
44:47
Southeastern Pennsylvania. God Bless America and good
44:50
night.