Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BUSTED: Man Makes 'ACCIDENTAL CONFESSION' TO MURDER

Transcript

BUSTED: Man Makes 'ACCIDENTAL CONFESSION' TO MURDER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Loose lips sink ships. Truer words were never spoken. Now.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: That phraseology came from Great Britain around the time of
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: the World War, when the Brits were convinced rightly so
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: that spies were everywhere, so if you knew anything about
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: the battle raging across the world, keep your pie hole shut. Well,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: it didn't always work, and today is a prime example
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: of a murder suspect busted in a police station after
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: he incriminates himself when detectives leave the room. Is nobody
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: watching TV? Don't they know? For somebody on the other
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: side of that mirror watching you, or that there are
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: cameras watching you that pick up audio as well. What
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: cave is this guy living in? He's got to be
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: living under a rock in a cave on the other
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: side of the world with definitely no cable TV where
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: he would have seen JINXD for Pete's sake, where millionaire
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Robert Durst said, of course I did it under his
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: breath and it was caught on a microphone. Anyway, he
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: did it, and he went years without being caught until
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: his inadverent loose lips suck his ship, I mean, is
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: he grace? This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: us here at Crime Stories and on serious Excit. One eleven.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: How did the whole things start? Well, of course, at
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: a liquor store. Take a listen.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: On the morning of April twenty third, nineteen ninety three,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: a couple stops by Ajax liquor store to pick up
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: a pack of cigarettes and finds the owner of the store,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Steve Weltig, on the floor dead. Investigators notice it appears
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: that a struggle took place prior to wel Tag being
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: shot in the head. Major Key Squad detectives work the
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: case and developed several leads, as well as a suspect sketch,
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: but no real evidence leading to a killer is ever
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: found and the case goes cold.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, straight out to high profile lawyer, former prosecutor in
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: inter city Atlanta defense attorney Darryl Cohen. Darryl Cohen, thank
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: you for being with us. Why does everybody say they
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: were in the liquor store just to buy cigarettes.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: Well, because no one goes to a liquor store to
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: buy liquor, because that there are all these boot layers. Nancy,
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: when you start making up lives that become more and
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: more absurd, more ridiculous, and the more you live the
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: way you think. Okay, they've got it. It's great when
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: these people are smarter than the rest of the world.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: In AJAX liquor store in the morning to buy cigarettes. Okay,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: you know what, fine, I will accept that because I'm
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: less concerned about them lying about getting boozed up first
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: thing in the morning than I am about the dead
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: body on the floor. Let's try and focus on the
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: dead body. Joining us right now, investigative reporter from Leader News.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: You can find them at my leaderpaper dot com. Tony
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Krauss joining us from Arnold, Missouri. Tony, thank you for
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: being with us. Tell me about the location of Ajax
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Liquor Store.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: AJX Liquor Store I actually no longer exists. It is
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: right off one of the main road in Arl, Missouri
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: called Jeffcoe Boulevards, the straight down the middle of the city.
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: It had been a liquor store that mister will take
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: it own and as whereas body was found in the
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: morning in nineteen ninety three, and it had also after
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: it been a liquor store, it became a auto shop.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Joining you right now, Detective Corporal Josh Weininger from the
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Arnold Police Department. I guess it hurts any chance of
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: getting forensic evidence when the crime scene location not only
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: changes hands, but changes the nature of the business, going
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: from then a liquor store to multiple businesses including auto
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: body shop, and now I believe it's a wellness center.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I mean that floor has been replaced, maybe walls have
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: been moved, repainted. There's no there's not a sintilla of
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: forensic evists left behind.
• 4:56
  Speaker 6: You're absolutely right. The building has one chain. The only
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: thing that's the same, The only thing as the shell.
• 5:04
  Speaker 6: The insight is completely redone. Nothing looks the same.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: So this liquor store is open and operating the morning.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: It was a Friday morning, I believe, on April twenty three,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: when the murder goes down. What more do you know
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: about the scene, detective.
• 5:19
  Speaker 6: It was a graphic scene. There was scenes of a struggle,
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: a violent struggle. Officer. Responding officers knew right away that
• 5:30
  Speaker 6: a struggle ensued and there was a fight for Steve
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: fought for his life. They could tell that right away.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: The victim, forty year old Stephen Wiltig, fought for his
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: life Now, how did they know that, detective corporal.
• 5:44
  Speaker 6: Because there were scattered, like any convenience store, chips and merchandise,
• 5:51
  Speaker 6: and it wasn't just secluded to one area like he
• 5:54
  Speaker 6: was found behind the counter of the resident of the business.
• 5:59
  Speaker 6: He was in front of the counter behind There was
• 6:04
  Speaker 6: scattered merchandise throughout the store.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, scattered merchandise throughout the store. You could tell a
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: battle ensued. I assume that there were no video cams
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: or anything of that nature.
• 6:18
  Speaker 6: Correct, there was one back then. They were very large
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: and it was outside the building, but it was not
• 6:23
  Speaker 6: functioning at that time.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: You know. That reminds me. I just had to corporal
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: the Chandra Levy case. When Chandra Levy left her apartment
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: in Washington, we couldn't tell what was she wearing, was
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: she with anybody? Her body was found much later, well
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: what was left of it. She was skeletonized and the
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Rock Creek Park there in DC, after all sorts of
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: high powered politicians had been questioned under suspicion, we never
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: knew did she leave to go jogging with she abducted
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: because they had surveillance cameras within her high rise apartment
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: in DC. But every seventy two hours, they would tape
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: over themselves. So by the time cops went there after,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: you know, searching for her. By the time cops went
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: to get in the video, it had been taped over forever, irretrievable,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: no way to get it back. So you're telling me
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: that there was a video cam, surveillance video, but it
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: wasn't working.
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: Yes, that's what I'm telling you. And it's unfortunate because
• 7:35
  Speaker 6: I could have sold the case in nineteen ninety three.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, when I'm thinking about the Woodacuda should us
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: in this case? Anyway, back to the murder, we know
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: that Stephen Weltigg, forty years old, was there bright and
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: early that Friday morning. He was the owner, he ran
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: the liquor store, convenience store, and that he put up
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: a battle. He fought for life, as the detective corporal
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: is telling us, but somebody was hell bent on murdering him.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: When you said, Detective Corporal Josh Weininger, that it was graphic,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: what do you mean by that? The same was graphic?
• 8:15
  Speaker 6: A lot of blood, A lot of blood. When somebody
• 8:17
  Speaker 6: is shot in the head, the heart is still pumping,
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: blood is still coming out of the body. So there
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: was a great deal of blood. There's blood spatter. We
• 8:28
  Speaker 6: have evidence all over the place, and we for years
• 8:35
  Speaker 6: we kept the flooring to that business. And so you
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: could just tell when I picked up the cage twenty
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: seven years how much blood was involved in this case.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: You kept the flooring. That is incredible police work. Tell
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: me about that.
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: The officers, the detectives that investigated at the time. There
• 8:54
  Speaker 6: was obviously modern police work has taken over with technology,
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: but back then I think they did a decent job
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: of processing that crime scene. They see stuff that was
• 9:08
  Speaker 6: pertinent to the investigation, and at that time you don't
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: know what is and what isn't, and they see stuff
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: that wasn't. That floor was very important. It helped me
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: years later kind of reconstruct that scene.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to imagine what you're saying, because we see
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: modern day reconstructions and the three D recreations and all that,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: but you actually have the floor. You had the flooring
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: from the scene. Did you say it was carpet?
• 9:37
  Speaker 6: It was carpet. And I worked this case with Detective
• 9:41
  Speaker 6: after Brett Ackerman at the time, and he and I
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: we looked at this carpet for a long time and
• 9:50
  Speaker 6: try to put the puzzle back together. Twenty seven years later.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Detective Corporal Joshua one of you're joining us, Can I tell
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: you about a case I tried? Okay, So, there was
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: a very high powered law firm in Atlanta and my boss,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Lewis Slayton, had been the elected District Attorney, the longest
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: of any DA in the country. I believe it was
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: thirty seven years. And I remember him calling me on
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: the overhead, Nancy, come to my office. I can hear
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: it right now because I'm chill and I specifically, i'd
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: been offering a different office, a really nice one, but
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I took a little beauty one on a corner with
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: no view at all. I looked on top of another
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: building because it was by the stairs. Detective Corporal Why
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: so I could run down to the elected DA's office
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: whenever he called me and be there in about two minutes,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: even in heels. So I ran down there and he
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: told me he had a case he wanted me to
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: look at because the daughter of his friend they had
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: known each other thirty years, who was now partner in
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: this big firm, was killed and it had been chalked
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: up as suicide, but the father and mother didn't believe it.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: So I grabbed the file, race out to the scene,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: and we take the bed sheets. She reportedly ostensibly shot
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: herself in the head while completely nude. Okay, right there,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: alarm bells were going off because that statistically never happens
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: with a female lying in bed, lying down with her
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: head on the pillow, and she shot herself. Now, something
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: about that just seems wrong, right, Do you agree with
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: me so far, detective? But it wasn't until I knew
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: it was wrong, but I didn't know why it was wrong.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: We get the sheets to the crime lab and guess
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: what her pillow? Janelle? That was her first name, Janelle, Beautiful,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I might add, with a precious little boy. Janelle was
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: lying on a pillow. And guess what was under the pillow, detective.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Blood spatter. Not a drop of blood, not a blood spear.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Blood spatter, which means the scene was staged. If she
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: had truly been lying on that pillow, butt naked, which
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: you know rarely happens with females, and shot herself the head,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: why would there be blood spatter all underneath her pillow?
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't be the blood didn't even soak all the
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: way through the pillow. Impossible, you see what I'm saying. Yes,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: So my point is, you guys kept the flooring because
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: you never know. As the weeks turned two months turned years,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: and you keep looking at it and looking at it
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: and looking at it, what might dawn on you. I
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: got to hand it to you and the Arnold PD
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: for saving so much of the evidence. Okay, So tell
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: me about the investigation into this case. Detective Corporal Josh Weininger.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Why did it go cold?
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: I believe it went cold from what I read through
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: many many police reports because of leads that had nothing
• 13:59
  Speaker 6: to do with the case. So the Major Case investigated it.
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: And one of the one of the patrons to the
• 14:07
  Speaker 6: convenience store that morning was and I want to say,
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: witness protection from a different state, and they didn't want
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: to get involved. So Major Case kind of said, this
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: is weird. This guy is possibly involved in criminal activity.
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: We're going to look into him as being.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: A potential suspect in the sheeting.
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: Correct, And that's where that case went.
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: Wow.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Huh okay, hold on, hold on, let me follow up
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: with everybody with me an all star panel. It makes
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: sense of what we know right now. Did loose lips
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: sink a ship? You know? Tony Krauss is with us
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: from Leader News, Detective Corporal josh Win and Jerk joining
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: us from the ARNOLPD in Missouri, but also with me
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: high profile lawyer Darryl Cohen out of the Atlanta jurisdiction,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: doctor jury Elk Crossing is with us where now it
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: psych pologists now faculty at Saint Leo University, and doctor
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner. That's not easy to get.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: You didn't just go to med school. You didn't just
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: become a medical doctor. You focus on pathology and then
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: you work your way up to become the chief medical Examiner.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Also lecturer University Texas Austin and at TCU Texas Christian
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: University Medical School, doctor Kendall Crowns. Why is it? I mean,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I'm just thinking back on all the murder cases I
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: investigated and prosecuted, the profuse amount of blood that occurs
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: when someone is shot in the head and we see it. Say,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I went to a wrestling match for my twins high school.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: They're not wrestlers, but their friends were wrestling and we
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: were watching you know, if you get hit in the
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: nose or the mouth, anywhere around your head, you bleed
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: like a stut pig. You bleed like crazy. Why is that.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: We're on other parts of your body, you don't bleed
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: as profusely.
• 16:13
  Speaker 8: So the scalp, the face all have a large amount
• 16:20
  Speaker 8: of blood vesse wills feeding the tissues of that area.
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: And then once you get past the skin, which is
• 16:28
  Speaker 9: very vascular, then you also have the brain, which has
• 16:32
  Speaker 9: a lot of blood supply getting to it because the
• 16:35
  Speaker 9: brain needs constant oxygen, constant nourishment to function. So all
• 16:40
  Speaker 9: these areas on your head have a lot of blood
• 16:43
  Speaker 9: supply when compared to the rest of your body. And
• 16:47
  Speaker 9: that's why you see so much hemorrhage associated with them,
• 16:50
  Speaker 9: because the brain is so important for your function, it
• 16:54
  Speaker 9: needs a large amount of blood.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Vest Jerald Cohen joining me, as you know, former prosecutor
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: now Defensiveney Darryl. I understand completely what Wandinger is telling
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: me because they're investigating this murderer. Then they find out
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: a witness and for those of you that can't see me,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I'm using air quoties is in the Witness Protection Act
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: somewhere else yes, of course they went down that. Let
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: me just call it a pig path. You know what
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: a pig path is, right, Darryl Cohen. You're a city boy,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: but do you know what a pig path is.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: I'm a city boy, but I know in.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: A straight line, a pig runs all crazy. And let
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: me just tell this story again. My dad, who would
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: work really long hours with the then Southern Central Railroad
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: now Norfolk Southern, my mother's brother convinced him they should
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: start a pig farm. So they got some pigs. And
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: basically what that meant is every day when he would
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: come home from work, he would have to chase the
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: pigs to get them back the fence. That's what a
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: pig path is. It's crazy, doesn't make sense, goes in
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: all crazy directions. So you find out the witness is
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: in witness protection. Of course, the cops investigated him as
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: a potential suspect.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: I couldn't help but laugh because witness protection, who is he?
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: Different name, different person, not different physical statistics or different
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: fingerprints or different DNA. But what it does is it
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: takes an already complicated case and multiplies the complications because
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: if he or she is in witness protection. Then fans
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: don't want him to be looked at, don't want him
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: to be spoken to, don't want him to even exist
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: because he might be murdered.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: You know, you can't get anything out of the Feds.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Detective Corporal Josh Wantinger ever tried to work with the Feds?
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Have you ever tried to get them to cooperate?
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: I have all the time I currently work cases with
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: the FADS.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Oh oh, sorry, But all my experience of working with
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: fests and I was a FED for three years law
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: clerk to a federal judge, and then with the Federal
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Trade Commission, and I trust. But for the bulk of
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: my career in the courtroom, I was a felony prosecutor.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And I remember one triple homicide and I had no idea.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I was working so hard to crack that case. The
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: FEDS had a whole file on one of the defendants
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: because he was involved in a huge drug trafficking trade,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: coming straight up from Miami, stopping in Atlanta, and then
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: moving to New York. Did I get one piece of
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: paper from them? No? Nothing. I had a triple homicide,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: but they thought their drug investigation was more important than
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: three dead teen boys.
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: I believe it. It's very tight lipped in the police report,
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: and they're reading the police report over. It's uncertain on
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: who this individual is and why he was in our
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: town where he came from. I just know he was
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: a person of interest at that time, and it kind
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: of went cold pretty quick once we figured out that
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: that we should go some other direction.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Some other direction as indicated by the Feds. So you're
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: kind of like between the rock and a hard spot.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: You think you know he did it, but the FEDS
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: are another law agency. Law enforcement agency, take him away
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: and encourage you to shut your pie hole. Okay, there
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: you go. So I'm sure there were to take this
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: on the case that always thought that guy did it,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: and we can't do anything about it until bam, there's
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: a break in the case. Listen to rachel Winia Crime online.
• 20:58
  Speaker 10: The murder of Steve Wilte was unsolved, but not forgotten.
• 21:02
  Speaker 10: The case has been assigned to different investigators over the years,
• 21:05
  Speaker 10: and new leads would be generated and investigated evidence collected.
• 21:09
  Speaker 10: Finally a breaking the case in twenty fifteen when reliable
• 21:12
  Speaker 10: tips led detectives to Laurel Harp, Harp's former wife, contacted
• 21:16
  Speaker 10: Arnold police in twenty fifteen and told them Laurel Harp
• 21:19
  Speaker 10: shot weltg.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: What isn't it great? Bitter angry ex wives call the
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: police and try to rap their ex out for a murderer.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Back to you, Daryl Cohen. I've spoken to many civil
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: attorneys who say they'd rather try a drug lord or
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: a murder as appases to a divorce case, because they're
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: pretty sure the other party, the wife or the husband
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: on the other side, is going to take a shot
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: at them when they walk through their living room in
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: front of the picture window. I mean, there's a lot
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: of animosity and hatred going on in many divorces.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Look Nancy first of all. Yogi Barrow said it best.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: It ain't over till it's over. Divorce cases never seem
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: to be over, especially when their kids involved, or when
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: one spouse or the other is exercising outside of the
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: marriage and emotions run so high. And when emotions run high,
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: people do things that are just playing stupid. Pull out
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: a gun, pull out a knife, make phone calls that
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: they really didn't make. But oh my gosh, I forgot
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: that you could track my phone so divorces are horrible.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: That's why you see from time to time a lawyer
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: who does family law, which I think is a misnomer
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: things to be called family wars when you see a
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: lawyer is murdered because his client or his client spouse
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: decides that this lawyer is his or her enemy, and
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: let's get rid of the enemy. So divorce cases are
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: terrible to try, horrible, and I give if I wore
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: a hat, I take my hat off to every divorce
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: lawyer who does it right.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Man, you are not kidding it. It doesn't make how, It
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter how educated or rich you are. It all
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: boils down to warfare, hand to hand, mutual combat in
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: the courtroom in a nasty divorce. So you know, to
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: you doctor Jory L. Crossey joining US renowned psychologist, former
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: law enforcement faculty at Saint Leo University, doctor jury. There
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: is a husband wife privilege where the wife cannot or
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: husband cannot testify against the partner about communications during the marriage.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean she can't make a phone call
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: and rat out her eggs may not come in on
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: the stand, but still it leads costs in a particular direction.
• 24:06
  Speaker 11: Yeah, as when I was in private practice, I used
• 24:09
  Speaker 11: to do the evaluations for court during divorces on parents
• 24:13
  Speaker 11: parental evaluations. So you know, I can really feel for
• 24:18
  Speaker 11: the lawyers on it because I've actually had lawyers threatened,
• 24:23
  Speaker 11: you know, and how to make the judge awearing them
• 24:25
  Speaker 11: aware of it. But one thing, psychologically, when relationships break up,
• 24:30
  Speaker 11: I have yet to see an individual that does not
• 24:34
  Speaker 11: experience what we call a manic episode. You know, that's
• 24:38
  Speaker 11: this excitement.
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: This is fueled by past injustices, you know, possibly affairs, anything,
• 24:46
  Speaker 7: but it really accelerates their sense of retaliation. And so
• 24:55
  Speaker 7: I could see her making a phone call. You know,
• 24:58
  Speaker 7: this is where a lot of of the luggage and
• 25:02
  Speaker 7: clause skeletons in clausets get exposed.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: You know. I like the way you said that so euphemistically.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: That's certainly putting perfume on the pig. It exacerbates retaliation.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: In other words, when you've been done wrong, you get mean.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: And this woman had waited what detective Corporal Josh wanting
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: her twenty years before she made that call.
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, twenty fifteen was an important year. We actually had
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: the suspect Laurel Harp's a good friend, which was also
• 25:33
  Speaker 6: a mutual friend with Stephen Walton and Laurel Harp's ex
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: wife come forward. So twenty fifteen was a very important
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: year during this investigation.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: So after all these years, the bitter ex comes forward,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: and thank heaven, she does.
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: I really do. I had a conversation with her myself
• 25:53
  Speaker 6: in twenty twenty. But she I believe it's she's still
• 25:59
  Speaker 6: struggling with some demons during from their relationship. From what
• 26:03
  Speaker 6: I picked up during the conversation, I think there was
• 26:06
  Speaker 6: some domestic issues that I could never iron out, So
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: that might be a reason she was willing to come forward.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Well, thank heaven she did detect a corporal because you
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: know what, I don't want to tell you about it.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I want you to hear it. Take a listen to
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the defendant in this case as he is called in
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: for questioning after his bitter ex angry ex calls cops
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: to tip him off about a murder. Well, the first
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: thing he says is I didn't kill Steve Man. But
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: then he keeps talking. Now, remember, right now, detectors are
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: sitting right in front of him. Listen, you guys are.
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: In it is a physical altercation because you guys are tussling.
• 26:53
  Speaker 12: Hey, if you want to call it, he's going to talk.
• 26:55
  Speaker 12: He's too easy.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: So how did it happen?
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: How did it happen that he got a bullet hole
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: in his head?
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: Hi, James, and you're the only other person there.
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: In the world.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: How is this going to look?
• 27:06
  Speaker 11: If you don't tell us the truth, we have to
• 27:07
  Speaker 11: speculate and tell a prosecutor.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: We have to guess what happened.
• 27:11
  Speaker 12: I'm telling you to shoose I didn't shoose him.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I did not choose you. And he is very, very convincing.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I've looked at the video as he's talking. He seems convincing.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: But I guess what does he want us to believe
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: that he gets into a quote tussle. That's what defendants
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: always say when they have a full on fight. It
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: was a tussle. We started tussling. Uh, Darryl Cohen, have
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: you heard that word over and over and over? A tussle?
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's just it's a catch all word for
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: a fight. It's not a tussle. It tussles you. You
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: and I are you, and somebody else would be and
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: somebody else that's wrestling a little bit. This is not
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: what that was.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to wrestle with you, Darryl Cohen. Okay,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: but that said, let's guys ww tussle. Take a listen
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: to more of Laurel Heart. Now, remember there's no evidence
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: against him. All we have is his ex wife calls
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: in and says he's a killer. And as all of
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: you legal eagles know, even a confession by the defendant
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: alone is not enough under our constitution to bring a
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: murder case. There has to be something more than just
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: the wife calling in. Listen, Steve Walte, in your words,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: is a punk, he's weak.
• 28:36
  Speaker 7: He grabs the gun.
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he's a pop.
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: You're like, what are you going to do with that?
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: That's when no, I wouldn't sit down.
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: I mean in your head, no, not a cloud. But
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: you're thinking, this guy just pulled a gun on me.
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I would do an after right way or cut out?
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right a way.
• 28:54
  Speaker 11: So we already know you.
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: Went after him right away. That's we just don't know
• 28:59
  Speaker 6: if you charge you if you were tussling.
• 29:02
  Speaker 7: Meaning pushing each other.
• 29:04
  Speaker 12: You said, it's not really that.
• 29:06
  Speaker 6: Physical, but you know with him as he's.
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: We've described what it was like, like was it?
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: What was he trying to punch you. Was he trying
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: to to me?
• 29:17
  Speaker 13: Were you good?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Do you notice right in the middle of that, Tony
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Krauss joining us from Leader News. He says, Hey, can
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: you hand me my jeeves? This guy is not worried
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: at all because all these years have passed and he
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: knows the cops have nothing on him.
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he seems pretty confident in his story that no,
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: he did not shoot him. And then how he's describing
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: to the let's call it at this point a confrontation,
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: I guess in his eyes, says he doesn't, says it
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: was a tussle, and he believes they have nothing they
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: can get him. At this point, it sounds like.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: And there really is nothing other than the ex wife's
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: phone call. He says, the two got no argument and
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: he left. He has no idea how the Vietnam got
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: shot in the head and ends up dead on the
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: floor of a liquor store early on a Friday morning. Okay,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: keep listening.
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: He came out to me, were you gun?
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: Describe that?
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: So the only thing I can remember that you're trying
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: to tell is I remember it was.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: A liquor store. I thought it was a bar.
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: There's a counter.
• 30:31
  Speaker 12: He come out from a round the counter, came at me,
• 30:34
  Speaker 12: had a gun in his hand.
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: As soon as he got close.
• 30:37
  Speaker 7: Enough, I hit him.
• 30:38
  Speaker 12: I grabbed it arm and but.
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: I didn't shoot him.
• 30:42
  Speaker 6: That's the suit.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I did not shoot him. And he goes on. Take
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: a listen to our cut one seven. Now. Remember there
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: he's talking to detectives, but the detectives leave the interrogation
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: room and leave him alone.
• 31:00
  Speaker 12: Loan de Texas picked to ask you some questions. I guess, yeah,
• 31:05
  Speaker 12: I mean Arnold Police station, and I have no idea
• 31:07
  Speaker 12: what's about? He said, I'm nor an arrest, but I
• 31:10
  Speaker 12: probably will before I leave here.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Let's hear that one more time.
• 31:13
  Speaker 12: De Texas picked the want to ask you some questions.
• 31:15
  Speaker 12: I guess, yeah, I mean Arnold Police station, and I
• 31:19
  Speaker 12: have no idea what's about? He said, I'm nor an arrest,
• 31:22
  Speaker 12: but I probably will be for I leave here.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. By the time if he is talking to me,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be under arrest for murder. That's right.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: He thinks nobody is listening. He picks up the cell
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: phone and calls some money and goes Before I can
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: leave here, I'm going to be under arrest. It's not
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: the first time someone has made an accidental or inadverted confession.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: This guy knows he's going to be under arrest for murder.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Does the name Robert Durst ring a bell? Take a
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: listen to our cup one.
• 31:56
  Speaker 13: Robert Durst was famous for being from one of the
• 31:59
  Speaker 13: wealthiest families in New York, but most of his adult
• 32:01
  Speaker 13: life dealt with a very dark side of life. Long
• 32:04
  Speaker 13: suspected of being involved in the disappearance of his wife,
• 32:07
  Speaker 13: Kathy McCormick in nineteen eighty two, he was the subject
• 32:11
  Speaker 13: of investigations that never could figure out what happened to Kathy.
• 32:15
  Speaker 13: Then the two thousand murder of someone considered his best friend,
• 32:18
  Speaker 13: Susan Berman, and the death of his neighbor Morris Black.
• 32:21
  Speaker 13: In all the investigations, the only one that saw a
• 32:24
  Speaker 13: courtroom was the Morris Black murder. Even though Durst chopped
• 32:28
  Speaker 13: up Morris Black, something one would associate with a murder,
• 32:32
  Speaker 13: not a defensive killing. Durst was acquitted of the murder.
• 32:35
  Speaker 13: It wasn't until Robert Durst agreed to do a special
• 32:37
  Speaker 13: on HBO that he was finally caught with his pants down,
• 32:40
  Speaker 13: so to speak, in the bathroom with a live microphone.
• 32:43
  Speaker 13: Robert Durst confessed and all played out in a program
• 32:47
  Speaker 13: he didn't have to do.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: So he's in the bathroom, using the bathroom, literally with
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: his pants down and muttering to himself in the middle
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: of an HBO special. Still mightd up take a listen
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: to HBO's the jinx. Well maybe this.
• 33:01
  Speaker 11: Is the all right, there it is?
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: You're yeah, he's acting like he has no idea what's
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: going on around? And what is this door with a
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: picture of a man on it? Oh, it's the bathroom,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: he goes in. Listen, I'm wrong this.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: Estion.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Okay. What he said right there he's muttering to himself
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: is quote what a disaster. He's talking about the HBO
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: special that he has voluntarily chose to take part in.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: And here's the money shot.
• 33:51
  Speaker 14: Listen him a question, kill the followers.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Idiot, he says, all alone in the bathroom, I'm having
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: difficulty with the question. I killed them all, of course,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: And who do we mean by of course? His wife
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Morris Black and his best friend Kathy Berman, who knew
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: he murdered his wife. There are so many other examples.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Robert Durst is just one of them who makes a
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: quote accidental confession to you, Daryl Cohen, nothing under our
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: constitution protects you from accidental or unknowing confessions being brought
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: in at court.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: What you're saying is, nancy, nothing protects you from your own, pure,
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: unadulterated stupidity. You're right, he is not being questioned. He's
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: giving voluntary answers to the ethernet or the Internet, or
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: the video or the audio. No, you can't be protected
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: from yourself unless you're smart enough to do what a
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: certain judge was told years ago when I prosecuted computed
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: in front of him. Judge Jack Langford had a habit
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: of just for rating lawyers, and his secretary, Gloria, who
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: was terrific, had the large letters large pond kyd BMS
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: on one of his rolling file cabinets, and every time
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: she heard him but reat a lawyer, she would buzz him.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: He would be forced to turn around, look at the
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: file cabinet insident for keep your damn big mouth shut. Well,
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: that's what should be these fools who commit these crimes.
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: But they're smarter than you are, smarter than I am,
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: and nobody's listening or watching me. But at some point,
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: if you trip and tall your toast.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: You know what, I remember Judge Schreyer very well. I
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: tried cases in front of him, and we always degenerated
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: into a huge argument. And after one of those arguments
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: he had to go to the hospital with chest pains. Okay,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: that's a whole nother story. But what about another Itgit
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: killer OJ Simpson talk about inadvertent confessions. Take a listen
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: to Dave mack in one thirty three.
• 36:44
  Speaker 13: Chris Darden, the OJ Simpson prosecutor, during an appearance on
• 36:48
  Speaker 13: the TV show of the View, claims OJ Simpson confess
• 36:51
  Speaker 13: to the crime. Darden is referencing a story that's been
• 36:54
  Speaker 13: told by Sergeant Jeff Stewart, who was a guard at
• 36:57
  Speaker 13: the La County Jail. He claims he overheard a convers
• 37:00
  Speaker 13: between O. J. Simpson and former NFL Great Term Minister
• 37:03
  Speaker 13: Rosie Greer. Rosie Greer was visiting OJ Simpson as a minister,
• 37:07
  Speaker 13: and Sergeant Stewart claims he heard Simpson yell, I didn't
• 37:11
  Speaker 13: mean to do it. I'm sorry. He then claims Rosie
• 37:14
  Speaker 13: Greer told OJA, OJ, You've got to come clean. You've
• 37:18
  Speaker 13: got to tell somebody. Sergeant Stewart did in fact testify
• 37:22
  Speaker 13: during the O. J. Simpson trial, but he was only
• 37:24
  Speaker 13: allowed to say that he heard a statement. He couldn't say
• 37:27
  Speaker 13: what the statement was. Simpson's defense argued statements between inmates
• 37:31
  Speaker 13: and clergy is protected, and Judge lance Ito ruled the
• 37:34
  Speaker 13: full accounting could not be admitted as evidence.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: Nancy, let me interrupt for a second. I think it's
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: important that you mentioned that Rosie Greer was a former
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: teammate of OJ Simpsons on the Los Angeles Rams. He
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: wasn't just a minister that came after his playing career
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: was over.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Normally, communications between clergy and a defendant are kept secret. However,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: if you violate or pierce the privilege by screaming it
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: out saw all the sheriffs hear it, then you typically
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: lose the privilege. It's like you're talking to your lawyer
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: at a dinner party and everybody can overhear you, so
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: you have waived the privilege by speaking in front of
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: other people. Of course, lance Ito chose his own unique
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: interpretation of the law and did not let Simpson's confession in.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: But what about this idiot William Korzon. Take a listen
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: to what he asked the police talk about an inadvertent
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: confession Dave Mack in one thirty.
• 38:41
  Speaker 13: Nine, William Courzon got away with murder for four decades.
• 38:45
  Speaker 13: He and his wife, Gloria, married in nineteen sixty eight
• 38:47
  Speaker 13: moved to Pennsylvania, where they were regularly visited by police
• 38:50
  Speaker 13: for their constant fighting. From nineteen sixty eight until Gloria
• 38:53
  Speaker 13: disappeared in nineteen eighty one, law enforcement authorities investigated in
• 38:56
  Speaker 13: documented numerous violent assaults where William Corson assaulted and threatened
• 38:59
  Speaker 13: to killed Gloria Coorson, investigator said, the couple got into
• 39:03
  Speaker 13: a violent argument in which Gloria pointed her husband's gun
• 39:05
  Speaker 13: at him and tried to shoot him, but Korson wrestled
• 39:08
  Speaker 13: the gun from his wife's hands and shot her in
• 39:10
  Speaker 13: the head, killing her. He then loaded her on his
• 39:13
  Speaker 13: boat and dumped her body in the Delaware River. After
• 39:15
  Speaker 13: the case went cold and was put on a shelf,
• 39:17
  Speaker 13: Warrington police spent two years reinvestigating before they finally had
• 39:21
  Speaker 13: enough evidence to take it to a grand jury. When
• 39:23
  Speaker 13: police showed up to arrest him, Coorzon said the one
• 39:26
  Speaker 13: thing that sealed his fate. He asked investigators, did you
• 39:29
  Speaker 13: find the body?
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Did you find the body. No, how did he know
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: there was a body? How did he know? She didn't
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: just leave him? He knew there was a dead body.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: And that was his inadvertent confession. I've got so many
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: in inverted accidental confessions, but you've got to hear this
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: one that results from a butt dial. I make the
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: twins say pocket dial, but it's a butt dial. Take
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: a listen to the story of Aaron Burial, the true
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: story In one.
• 40:00
  Speaker 13: World of crime, it's the victim that usually calls nine
• 40:02
  Speaker 13: one one. Roswell, New Mexico. Authorities answered the nine one
• 40:06
  Speaker 13: one call, expecting someone to need help, but this time
• 40:08
  Speaker 13: it's a butt dial, an unintentional dialing of nine one one.
• 40:12
  Speaker 13: Nine to one dispatch is about to disconnect the call
• 40:15
  Speaker 13: when they hear thirty seven year old Aaron Burrell talking
• 40:18
  Speaker 13: about a home he just burglarized with his partner in crime,
• 40:21
  Speaker 13: Yvonne Thiberg. Nine one one is recording as the couple
• 40:24
  Speaker 13: does a quick inventory of what they just stole, mainly
• 40:26
  Speaker 13: a TV from a house in Roswell. Dispatchers listened to
• 40:30
  Speaker 13: the unintended confession for nearly forty five minutes as the
• 40:33
  Speaker 13: duo continued to discuss their alleged heist. Police went to
• 40:37
  Speaker 13: the home address that was mentioned in the call and
• 40:39
  Speaker 13: it had been robbed. Aaron Burrell and Yvonne Thiberg were
• 40:42
  Speaker 13: both arrested and charged with multiple burglary related offenses. And
• 40:46
  Speaker 13: the confession is all on the nine to one one.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Tape confession by butt dial to ted to Corporal Josh
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Weininger is with us from the Arnold PD. So this guy,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: when he sees the detect us, we're back to our
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: case in chief the in this case, Laurel Harp. As
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: soon as the detectives leaves the room, he picks up
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: the phone and basically makes a tell. Colin says, in essence, man,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: I'm going to jail. He knew the gig was up.
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: Yes, he knew. He made several of those incriminating statements
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: out loud. He was cussing at himself at times, and
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: it was those portions of the interview which led myself
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: in Detective Ackerman solved this case.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: What do you mean he was cursing at himself.
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: Just like when you're mad at yourself, like verbally out loud,
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: just upset with himself that he was in this situation
• 41:39
  Speaker 6: because he thought he was going to jail.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: To you, Tony Krauss. Was he charged with first degree murder?
• 41:48
  Speaker 11: He was?
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: It was.
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: It took a couple, a couple more interviews were with him,
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: and then the Prosky Attorney's Office in Jersy did issue
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: charged it against him for a first murder and an
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: armed criminal action on September twenty ninth, twenty twenty, and
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: he was arrested the next day.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Twenty plus years pass and through a in an inadvertent
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: confession a slip of a tongue, he is convicted on
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: homicide charges. Justice delayed, but not denied. Goodbye friend,