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What a 21-Year-Old Actually Thinks About Love, Sex, and Society with Connor O'Donoghue · Intimate Conversations with Men about Life, Love, and Sex

• [00:00:00] Connor: I don't believe that I'm in a position in my life where I'm ready to get married. I'm not necessarily happy or satisfied with where I am in my personal career or education. There are, you know, other lengths that I wanna strive for before I get to that. I wanna be financially secure before marriage. And so for me personally, that's sort of mainly why dating's not really on the table right now. [00:00:20] Connor: Although, you know, I look at a lovely woman like yourself and I, I think for a second maybe I could give it a shot, but no, no. No. [00:00:28] Elena: I knew it. [00:00:30] Connor: You knew it. [00:00:30] Elena: Mama. [00:00:31] Connor: Your chance is not today- [00:00:32] Elena: Mama bear ... [00:00:33] Connor: i, I'm afraid. Yes. [00:00:34] Voiceover: Welcome to Intimate Conversations With Men, about life, love, and sex. The conversations you're about to hear don't happen often, not in boardrooms, not in locker rooms, rarely anywhere. [00:00:46] Voiceover: Elena Sofia Ruiz has invested 37 years studying how individuals think, operate, connect, and how they are mentally built, and she has a rare gift for creating the kind of space where men actually go there. Relationships, health, emotional intimacy, personal growth. Real talk from the male perspective. So settle in, this one goes deep. [00:01:06] Elena: Thank you for joining one more time here at Intimate Conversations With Men, about life, love, and sex. Today we're gonna talk about everything. I have a special superstar, someone I met a little bit ago, and I'm just fascinated. He attempt to have a debate with three grown up women, and he was winning. So I thought, I want this man in my podcast, and he said yes. [00:01:34] Elena: Connor O'Donoghue. He is a 21-year-old young man, computer science student at MiraCosta College, currently on a transfer pathway to UCLA. He was born and raised in San Diego, California, and graduated from a boarding high school in Colorado. Growing up, he developed a strong passion for athletics, particularly competitive, I love this, rock climbing, where he placed seventh, ladies and gentlemen, nationally in his high school league. [00:02:08] Elena: He also enjoys mountain biking and compete in a Colorado MTB league. Outside of academics and sports, he's deeply interested in politics. Yeah, I was able to notice that. Especially issues shaping Western society. He was raised by a single mother, beautiful woman, and experienced that he had a significant influence on any perspective and drive. [00:02:39] Elena: And for something a little bit different, in addition, he is the father of a little pet pig. [00:02:47] Connor: That is very true. Yes. Wilbur is my son. [00:02:50] Elena: Wilbur. Connor, welcome to Intimate Conversations With Men. [00:02:54] Connor: Thank you. I'm more than honored to be here. This is really fun. [00:02:57] Elena: I have to be honest, I haven't shared this, but my influencers are animals, and the biggest influencer that I have is a pig, it's called... [00:03:08] Elena: Woo, I don't even remember the name right now. While the pig actually studies and does the other things, he can open and close his doors when he's upset, and all of those things, so- [00:03:17] Connor: That's exactly what my... If we don't lock our back sliders, my pig will find a way inside and he will eat all the garbage in the house, and it's a disaster chronically. [00:03:25] Elena: Okay. [00:03:26] Connor: So be wary. Yep. [00:03:27] Elena: Good luck with p- with fatherhood. [00:03:28] Connor: It's been challenging, yes. Yes. Actually, um, we had two pigs at one point, and, uh, the female pig, they procreated, and she gave birth in my lap when I was, like, 12 years old. So- [00:03:40] Elena: Oh, at least months. [00:03:41] Connor: Yeah, I- Didn't learn about the birds and the bees until that moment. [00:03:45] Connor: It was very, uh, eye awakening moment. But yeah, yeah, it's, it's fun. It's challenging. He has the, you know, intellectual capability of a three-year-old, you know? That's their intellect. [00:03:55] Elena: Exactly. [00:03:55] Connor: Yeah, yeah. It's hard. [00:03:56] Elena: How big is your pig? Show me with your hands. [00:03:58] Connor: Uh, he's 130 pounds. Very compact. Kinda like if I were to do this. [00:04:03] Elena: Okay. [00:04:03] Connor: About yay big. Yeah, yeah, I'd say. [00:04:06] Elena: What created the idea of adopting a, a pig instead of a dog? [00:04:11] Connor: Oh, gosh. Well, I'm allergic for one to... I, particularly I wanted a big dog when I was younger. When I was 10 I had a, a whole like deal worked out with my mom and then, you know, she was kind of against it. You know, we're both allergic. [00:04:24] Connor: And so pigs are hypoallergenic, and that was kinda the solution. Just get a pig. [00:04:31] Elena: Can you push your mic a little bit? [00:04:32] Connor: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:32] Elena: Thank you. [00:04:33] Connor: Gosh, yeah. [00:04:33] Elena: I wanna make sure we got your amazing voice. I don't remember your voice being like this, this, uh, deep. And you have all the qualities of a man that I will enjoy. [00:04:43] Elena: Nice conversation, deep voice, and smells nice. [00:04:47] Connor: Well, I, I appreciate that. [00:04:48] Elena: Yeah. If you were just like way many years more older probably I'd be very fascinated by you. I am- [00:04:54] Connor: Oh. ... [00:04:55] Elena: but in a different way. [00:04:57] Connor: I appreciate the compliment. [00:04:59] Elena: Actually, I have a little flirting energy with you for the beginning. Yeah, we- [00:05:02] Connor: I forgot about that we had a little spicy banter going on over dinner. Yes. It was kinda comical. Yes. Yeah, yeah. [00:05:07] Elena: Interesting. And your mom was actually witnessing those things. [00:05:11] Connor: Yeah, she, she was there to keep it tame- [00:05:12] Elena: Yeah ... [00:05:13] Connor: to calm it down a little bit. Yeah. [00:05:14] Elena: Yes, exactly. [00:05:15] Connor: It was fun. Yeah. [00:05:16] Elena: Making sure that- [00:05:16] Connor: Monitor. Yes. [00:05:18] Elena: I am very interested to hear anything and everything you have to say about life. [00:05:22] Elena: So let's start with manhood. [00:05:27] Connor: Mm. [00:05:27] Elena: So what does a 21-year-old, and I'm not gonna repeat that, but a man of your understanding- [00:05:34] Connor: Right, right ... [00:05:35] Elena: so what are the pr- specific challenges that you perceive With everything that is going in the world with the different energies of masculinity and femininity, is this something that you notice? [00:05:46] Connor: Yeah, I mean, I think there's, there's a number of issues. It's a pretty layered question. I think that the classical definition of masculinity should still apply, in my personal opinion, as [00:05:56] Connor: being- [00:05:56] Elena: And what does that mean to you? [00:05:57] Connor: I think we all have the idea, you know, to be the, the provider and the protector of the household. [00:06:02] Connor: I think that is sort of the mainstream masculine figure, right? [00:06:05] Elena: Mm-hmm. [00:06:05] Connor: To be that person and to be that rock for a family or for your wife or your spouse, whatever it be. And I, I think that holds true today, and that's how we should frame our society to work. But like you're saying, in my generation, there, there's a, a number of differences. [00:06:22] Connor: There's sort of a feminization of men within the mainstream culture and mainstream media. There's a devaluing of the protector/provider position. [00:06:32] Elena: Mm-hmm. [00:06:32] Connor: There's also, you know, a, a narrative that, like, women can do everything men can do. And to a degree that's true, but it doesn't fit our nature, you know? [00:06:41] Connor: Men are typically more interested in things, for example, than women are. Women are a lot more interested in people. They're more sociable. And so this is seen in workforces, in the job space, right? Men take a lot of the science positions, a lot of, you know, auto mechanical. They're oriented in their careers towards objects and towards things. [00:07:03] Connor: Women are more oriented towards nursing or hospice or childcare, more oriented towards people. And those differences should be leaned into. Our biological inclinations should be reflected within society, and I think that there's no reason to replace the masculine figure or the masculine energy with feminine. [00:07:26] Connor: And you know, I, I think that's something that we're seeing a lot of right now. I think that we're facing this sort of feminization and masculinization of women and men. It's very interesting, yeah, yeah. [00:07:39] Elena: How do you visualize for you, uh, well first of all, do you perceive this as something that affects you now and day? [00:07:45] Connor: Obviously I'm, I'm single, I'm young. I don't have a family or a wife or kids to provide for, but- [00:07:50] Elena: But there's even some, uh, way of competition, some on, you know, male and female, even from- [00:07:56] Connor: Right ... [00:07:56] Elena: scores from, or, you know, from a school. There's some energies and some, you know, we, we as a kid espe- especially, of course you're not a kid anymore- [00:08:05] Connor: Right, right [00:08:06] Elena: but we are influenced by our parents, and this is a generation who our p- our parents from those kids, a lot of those are the women and the men right now who are right in this, in the nucleus of that conversation, of that issue. But do you see as, without, uh, dating and even if you don't have a girlfriend, but do you perceive that this affects your life right now as it is? [00:08:29] Connor: I would say yes in- Academia in particular is weird. It's very, very odd. I see a lot of my female classmates unhappy. You know, I'm a computer, computer science major. I'm within the sciences. A lot of them are, uh, my, my female peers are attempting to pursue high-paying careers and attempting to sort of be their own protector and provider, and they seem very dissatisfied. [00:08:57] Connor: When I speak to the female classmates, they're not happy with their lives. They don't seem to really enjoy what they're doing. They're not really there for the passion of their degree, but rather simply because of the paycheck. And obv- obviously, there's a lot of, like, economical issues that play into that. [00:09:14] Connor: You know, for example, in 1980, 50% of household income was able to cover living expenses, so that's rent, h- you know, food, gas, all the things that you need to live and survive off. Today, it's about 80% of the average household income. So 80% of, you know, perceivably my generation's income goes toward just living expenses, and that seems to be pushing a lot of women towards these masculine career fields because they are higher-paying and because life is getting to be more expensive. [00:09:44] Connor: There's a lot of corporations that are happy with this because, you know, more people in the labor force, inflated prices, you don't have to pay them as much. But I don't think that women will be satisfied pursuing the same careers that men are. I don't think that's what they're designed to do. [00:10:00] Elena: Thank you. [00:10:00] Connor: You know? Yeah. And that's rather controversial. I, uh, people don't like to admit that. People don't like to say that, but I think it's absolutely true. [00:10:07] Elena: You know, I appreciate- [00:10:07] Connor: Yeah ... [00:10:08] Elena: and this is one of the reasons why you're here, because you have an opinion and you're not afraid to address your opinion. But I wanna ask you for a special favor. [00:10:15] Connor: Yes, yes. [00:10:16] Elena: When you are running for politics- [00:10:20] Connor: Oh, gosh ... [00:10:21] Elena: whatever that is- [00:10:23] Connor: Mm ... [00:10:23] Elena: I wanna be the first person to get to interview you. [00:10:26] Connor: I would love to. I'm certainly interested in politics. I wouldn't say that I am interested in being a politician, just because that space is very, it's very, like, donor-based, and you're, you have a commitment to your donors, and oftentimes the commitment to your donors is not Equal with the things that your people and your voters want. [00:10:46] Connor: So I don't, I don't know if I'll... I'll probably stay away from politics. [00:10:49] Elena: Okay. [00:10:49] Connor: Yeah. [00:10:50] Elena: That's fine, but you definitely gonna make some changes in this world, I have certainty of that. Let me ask you this. Yeah. And I don't have a lot of conversations with, uh, individuals your age, to be honest. This is what I'm fascinated to have you- [00:11:02] Connor: Yeah [00:11:02] Elena: here today. Yeah. So is this the norm? [00:11:06] Connor: There's certainly been an influx within the male youth, I would say. You know, not to get too political, but I'm... no, I'm not for Trump. However, he did win over the culture and the youth in America, particularly with my generation, and I think that is, uh, it's due to a number of factors. [00:11:23] Connor: The collapse of our economy is probably a big one. [00:11:26] Elena: Mm-hmm. [00:11:26] Connor: You know, emphasis on low taxation, emphasis on the economy was a big part of that. I personally am more so aligned with a libertarian point of view. I wouldn't say that I'm conservative, though there are some parallels between the two, and I think that there is something very real about wanting to cater to the middle class, wanting to sort of provide a future for my generation, and that- that's sort of where the more right-leaning youth came from, I would say. [00:11:53] Connor: That's where it all started. Obviously, now we have a number of issues, right? We're going to war with Iran, which is entirely against my viewpoint, and I think the viewpoint of the nation at large. But- The general message of America first is very appealing to a young man who's growing up in a society where the economy's in tatters, you can't afford gas, you can't afford groceries. [00:12:13] Connor: It's inconceivable to start a family. It doesn't seem rational at all. It seems fiscally responsible to start a family, and that ties into marriage, and, and sex, and dating, and all of that. And so yeah, I, I think it's, it's a pretty unanimous conclusion amongst my generation, at least with the men, to be more right-leaning politically. [00:12:33] Connor: Not necessarily conservative, and not necessarily agreeing in group think, but to be more focused on the economy, to be more focused on housing prices. [00:12:41] Elena: So- [00:12:42] Connor: Yeah ... [00:12:42] Elena: what I hear you saying, just to summarize, for you it's not, uh, which, you know, team you're gonna go. It's more about the focus of this is your priority, which is the economy. [00:12:51] Connor: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's one of, of many, yes. But obviously I, I think everybody to a certain extent believes more so in policy and legislator than they do some sort of a political party. I think, you know, living in America, we have a two-party system. It's frankly idiotic. It doesn't make any sense. We just, you know, we go left, right, dumb, smart, everybody gets a shot. [00:13:11] Connor: It's, it's ridiculous. It doesn't seem to work at all. Any policies that are put in place by one administration is immediately taken down by the other. So yeah, I mean, I, I think generally those are the objectives that everybody my age is- [00:13:23] Elena: Don't be s- ... [00:13:23] Connor: seeking for. Yeah. [00:13:24] Elena: Don't be surprised if you're invited to more conversations, um [00:13:27] Connor: Okay . [00:13:29] Elena: Okay, so I'm gonna ask you some serious questions that- [00:13:31] Connor: Yeah, yeah ... [00:13:31] Elena: my manager made for you, [00:13:34] Connor: okay? Okay. I'm excited. [00:13:35] Elena: Are you ready? [00:13:36] Connor: I'm ready. [00:13:37] Elena: Dating and relationships. You're navigating dating in a world shaped by apps, social media. And I know you said that you're not dating, but if you have an opinion, you do, you don't, you don't, right? [00:13:49] Connor: Yeah, yeah. [00:13:49] Elena: Social media and a lot of conflicting messages about what relationships should look like. What's your honest take on how your generation approaches dating, and what do you wish was different? [00:14:03] Connor: Sure. I mean, there's a number of things. The first thing that comes to mind, you know, you, you mentioned dating apps and whatnot. [00:14:10] Connor: There's almost a commercialization of, of dating. [00:14:12] Elena: Mm-hmm. [00:14:12] Connor: And it seems like at the center is not love. It's not, you know, to start a family. It's not to create a partnership. It seems very sexually driven, and there's, there's this sort of hyper-sexualization of our society right now, and I think that is more so seen within my generation than others, I would say. [00:14:30] Connor: And I don't particularly know the reasons for that. I, I could, you know, sit here and speculate. Perhaps it's just advertising. It's the media, all these different things that conflate love with sex. I, I, I think that what it should be is something closer to courtship, right? [00:14:49] Elena: Mm-hmm. [00:14:49] Connor: I think that's what we need to get back to. [00:14:50] Connor: I think that the whole idea of you, you date and you stay with your partner for, you know, five years before getting married, and I understand the appeal to that because, you know, for a man, obviously, if you make a marriage commitment to somebody, you're risking half of your net worth, essentially. You know, numerous child support fees. [00:15:09] Connor: But I think my generation is more so focused on the sexual aspect of dating as opposed to getting to know somebody who you want to marry. [00:15:17] Elena: What's that mean? What is the focus there? [00:15:18] Connor: I know being a man, okay, and men typically only want one thing initially when they first meet you, and that is to have sex. [00:15:26] Connor: Okay. And I think, you know, women are sort of the gatekeepers of sex in many ways, and, uh, the media has almost gone to women and said, you know, being super sexual or engaging in acts of sex is, in some way or another, a form of empowerment, and I don't know exactly if that's true. [00:15:50] Elena: Okay. [00:15:50] Connor: And I, I think that that message particularly sent out to my generation, generation's women is what's driving a large portion of a hyper-sexualized dating market. [00:16:06] Connor: And there's more issues than that as well. I mean, when you, you have a dating app, right? It gives you the illusion of choice, right? You get to swipe left, you get to swipe right. That whole problem I think it commercializes dating where it's like you're not there out of interest for building a relationship with other people. [00:16:26] Connor: You're just there to pick whoever's most attractive, right? And that seems to be a problem. There, there's a lack of empathis- emphasis rather on attractive partners or successful partners as opposed to intellectually interesting partners, and that's something I think we should get back to. Yeah. [00:16:45] Elena: Well, first of all, false, it seems like you're saying that dating is being commercialized- [00:16:51] Connor: Certainly, yeah [00:16:52] Elena: on one hand, and women have the control over sex right now. You said you didn't have a girlfriend. [00:16:59] Connor: No. I have, but like middle school, you know, silly relationship. Nothing, nothing of any meaning, no. [00:17:07] Elena: Okay. So what make you make the decision? [00:17:11] Connor: Well, how do I say this without being insulting? [00:17:14] Elena: And by the way, I know it is a very- [00:17:15] Connor: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah [00:17:15] Elena: a very personal question. And by the way, by you coming here, you have the right to be heard, whatever. And also, if you feel uncomfortable in not answering, that's fine. Uh, and I'm not gonna even edit this part, by the way. [00:17:25] Connor: Oh, oh, who care? They, they can all see. I, I have no issues. Yeah. [00:17:28] Elena: But you have the right to your opinion. That's what I know, right? [00:17:30] Connor: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I'm, I'm totally open to- [00:17:32] Elena: And we- nobody has to agree or not agree, so go ahead. [00:17:35] Connor: Yeah. I think for me personally, the purpose of dating is to date to marry, right? To find your future partner, to build a life together, to find somebody that will push you to be the best version of yourself, whether it be in your career or, you know, in your personal family or your relationships. [00:17:52] Connor: That should be the objective of marry. And dating should be sort of the precipice to marriage. I don't believe that I'm in a position in my life where I'm ready to get married. I'm not necessarily happy or satisfied with where I am in my personal career or education. There are, you know, other lengths that I wanna strive for before I get to that. [00:18:10] Connor: I wanna be financially secure before marriage. And so for me personally, that's sort of mainly why dating's not really on the table right now. Although, you know, I look at a lovely woman like yourself and I, I think for a second maybe I could give it a shot, but no, no. No. [00:18:25] Elena: I knew it. [00:18:26] Connor: You knew it. [00:18:27] Elena: Mama. [00:18:28] Connor: Your chance is not today- [00:18:29] Elena: Mama bear [00:18:29] Connor: I, I'm afraid. Yes. [00:18:31] Elena: It's such a libi- liberating for me to listen to you because I thought, you know, men are just changing and changing. And by the way, I'm not a big believer in apps. Uh- [00:18:41] Connor: Yeah ... [00:18:42] Elena: definitely not. I don't think I'm gonna find a mate in, in a phone. [00:18:45] Connor: Neither am I. [00:18:45] Elena: Yeah. Uh, so- [00:18:46] Connor: It's silly concept ... and I l- [00:18:47] Elena: and as you probably already noticed, I love the touching and the smelling and the listening of the voice. [00:18:52] Connor: Right. [00:18:52] Elena: So apps don't offer any of that. So I appreciate that. Thank you. That's, that's... I mean, what happened to you? How do you come up with that information by, on your own or... I mean, I, I don't, I don't think that every single man of your age will probably have the same answer. [00:19:07] Connor: I mean, I think for me personally, like I, I have a single mother, and I've been very, I, I don't wanna say involved in her dating life, but I've been very aware of it, you know? [00:19:17] Elena: Mm-hmm. [00:19:17] Connor: I think it, it's something that you're aware of when you're a young kid and your mother starts dating people. You almost get protective. You know, obviously I've heard stories about the disasters regarding my mother's divorce with my father, but also I've seen some pretty not safe relationships with other boyfriends. [00:19:31] Connor: And I think- From my perspective, you know, my mother's the most mature woman that I've ever met in my life. And it's like, okay, well, if, if she at the age of 40 is struggling in the dating realm, then what the hell do I know and why should I have any sort of- You just- ... vested interest in that? [00:19:48] Elena: You just got really smart. [00:19:49] Connor: That's all. I, I, I guess. I, I don't know about that, but- [00:19:52] Elena: Oh my God, this is funny. So. What do I know if my mom... Okay. Next question. Are you ready? [00:19:58] Connor: I'm ready. [00:19:58] Elena: Intimacy. A lot of young men struggle to be emotionally open, even with people they're close to. What does real intimacy means to you, and is that something that you feel comfortable with or still figuring out? [00:20:13] Connor: I guess you're referencing emotional intimacy. [00:20:16] Elena: I will say yes, intimacy. [00:20:18] Connor: Yeah? Okay. Yeah. [00:20:19] Elena: Before you answer that- [00:20:20] Connor: Hmm ... [00:20:20] Elena: what is your definition of in- intimacy? [00:20:23] Connor: Well, I suppose like a classical definition of intim- intimacy would be perhaps, like, kind of PDA, like holding or hugging or kissing. [00:20:31] Elena: Sex. [00:20:31] Connor: Or, yeah. Or perhaps sex itself. [00:20:33] Elena: Sex. [00:20:33] Connor: Right. [00:20:33] Elena: Okay, physical. Okay. [00:20:34] Connor: Right. [00:20:34] Elena: Thank you for that. [00:20:35] Connor: Physical. Yes. [00:20:35] Elena: I, I'm curious because it really depend, for a lot of men, that's the primary definition. [00:20:40] Connor: Right. [00:20:41] Elena: If that's the case, I will have intimate conversations with men. I will have conversations with men while we are, like, touching and- [00:20:46] Connor: Well, intimacy I feel has a different con- oh. [00:20:50] Connor: Intimacy- [00:20:51] Elena: Sorry, you want me to remove that beer fro- [00:20:54] Connor: Um. [00:20:55] Elena: Just to make it a little bit real, right? [00:20:56] Connor: Yeah. I, I think intimacy has a different connotation. But trust me, [00:20:58] Elena: I don't look, I don't look like that in the real world. So s- erase, erase, erase, erase. [00:21:03] Connor: I, it's already wo- gone. [00:21:04] Elena: Thank you. [00:21:05] Connor: Not, yep, yep. [00:21:05] Elena: Thank you. [00:21:05] Connor: I think intimate conversations as a statement kinda covers what it means, right? [00:21:10] Connor: I think intimacy has a different connotation than intimate itself. So I, I think you're safe with your title. I, I think I like it. Yeah. [00:21:16] Elena: I appreciate that. Yeah. So going back to the original question with intimacy being emotional. [00:21:20] Connor: I think men as a whole just don't really let people in, you know? Like, even with my closest friends, we don't talk. [00:21:28] Connor: We, we just don't. And I, that's a major difference between men and women, and I think it's hardwired into us. We want to be strong, and we want to be, you know, your protector and your provider, all those classical things. And it, it almost feels as though to be emotionally intimate with somebody, it's to be vulnerable. [00:21:49] Connor: And we don't wanna be seen as vulnerable. I don't think any man I can think of really wants to be seen or viewed or thought of as a vulnerable individual. And it does a number to our psyche when we let people in. And I think for me personally, I typically have been the one responsible for solving all of my problems, and I, I pride myself on being a problem solver, and that's a part of my identity that I enjoy. [00:22:18] Connor: And I, I feel weak almost if I come to a hypothetical partner To help solve any problems. Now, that being said, I think there is some value to being emotionally intimate, and to being, quote-unquote, vulnerable, although I don't like the connotation of that word either. You know, suicide rates are many, many times that of women, uh, for men. [00:22:42] Connor: And depression rates are even yet higher. And so I, I think there is some value to that, to being emotionally present and vulnerable and whatnot. But, you know, obviously I'm 21, right? I, I'm still young and figuring myself out, but I personally don't think I ever really want to be that vulnerable with a woman ever, you know? [00:23:05] Connor: Especially not one that I'm interested in, 'cause it, it makes me feel weak. And I think that is a sentiment that most men, perhaps I'm immature, but I, I believe that's a sentiment that most men believe, yeah. [00:23:16] Elena: No, actually you're not. That's actually, uh, very clear to, very masculine. In case if you wonder- ... here, that was a very interesting, um, answer. [00:23:27] Elena: Okay, sex. Yes. Again, because it's our favorite subject now. [00:23:31] Connor: Here we are. [00:23:32] Elena: So much of what young men learn about sex comes from, uh, the, the porn or locker room- [00:23:38] Connor: Right ... [00:23:38] Elena: talk. What do you think your generation gets wrong about sex, and where have you found a more honest or helpful perspectives? [00:23:47] Connor: I think most men conflate love with sex. [00:23:49] Connor: That is sort of the key main blaring component to that. Obviously it's not true. To love somebody is to, in essence, love their mind and how they think and how they feel and how they operate, to want to get to know somebody better. That is in my opinion of what love is. But we live in, you know, a time where every rap song, every hip hop song is talking about women in a sexualized manner. [00:24:12] Connor: Every advertisement or billboard that you see across the freeway is a woman in sexy clothing advertising some kind of a product, and it's this, like, constant societal bio-hacking almost of the male brain. And it, it's just, you see it everywhere. And you know, I, I think that the only real solution to conflating sex with love in men is as a society to stop sexualizing everything. [00:24:38] Connor: Think about, like, Valentine's Day, for example. It's almost become a commercial industry in America, right? [00:24:43] Elena: Oh my God. Mm-hmm. [00:24:44] Connor: Lo- for, for many, many years. It, it's, you know, you get her chocolates and roses, which is great, but then at the end of the night you guys have sex. Like, that's essentially the message of Valentine's Day. [00:24:53] Elena: Okay. [00:24:53] Connor: And I don't see how the national day of love- Is [00:25:01] Elena: Primarily re- religion ... [00:25:02] Connor: sexual [00:25:03] Elena: Mm-hmm. [00:25:03] Connor: Right Yeah And so I, I think there's a societal issue there. That, that would be my answer, I guess, my very unofficial answer [00:25:09] Elena: That's, that's- [00:25:09] Connor: Yeah ... [00:25:09] Elena: wonderful. Man, I really definitely wanna have way more conversations with you, but let's, let's keep talking here. [00:25:15] Connor: For sure. [00:25:15] Elena: Religion and spirituality. Wow, we haven't talked about that. [00:25:18] Connor: Yes. [00:25:19] Elena: Does faith- [00:25:20] Connor: Interesting ... [00:25:20] Elena: or spirituality play a role in your life? And if so, how does it shape you, your way to think about the bigger questions, relationship, purpose, and how to treat people? [00:25:32] Connor: Yeah, I, I would say I am religiously agnostic. [00:25:37] Connor: Re- I say religiously as a preface because I'm not agnostic as an ideology. People will split hairs on that, which simply saying, I don't know. I don't know if there is a God or a higher power. I certainly would like to believe so. I've read the Bible front to back, the Christian Bible. I've read pieces of the Quran just out of interest. [00:25:54] Connor: I've read, you know, parts of the Torah out of interest. I've never really found the answers that I'm- Wanting to seek in any of those. There's a lot of historical accuracies. There's a lot of connections. That's very true. For my first year of high school, I went to a, a Catholic private school, so I'm, I'm pretty well-versed in Catholicism or Christianity, essentially the same thing. [00:26:17] Connor: But I don't, I don't see it as a major player, and I think mainly that has to do, at least my perspective, with media. You know, we see every other day there's another school shooting. There's another bombing of children in Palestine. There's another huge cartel blowout in Mexico. There, there are a number of violent atrocities across the world, and I have issue, and I take issue with the rationalization that God allows evil. [00:26:44] Connor: I personally don't want to believe in a God who allows evil things and harm to come to children. I don't find that to be a true or powerful God, and that's just my personal opinion. But I do see it reflected in my generation. I think many people in my own generation are striving away from religion and God. [00:27:01] Connor: And I, I will say, I think religion as a concept is a net benefit for society, right? Otherwise, it's just laws dictate what is moral and what is not. You know, I'd rather be in a dark alleyway with a Christian man than somebody who doesn't believe in God at all. And so there, there's certainly benefit, you know, in Western society to believing in a higher power. [00:27:23] Connor: I just personally don't know. I, I'm not sure. And I don't... I, it... You know, being 16, researching and, and reading the Quran is not healthy at all. You know, it was not a good time. It just led me into this depressive state. And so I think my conclusion out of all that is just I don't know, and if it comes to me, it will. [00:27:41] Connor: If it doesn't, it doesn't. You know? [00:27:42] Elena: Excellent. That's an excellent question. [00:27:44] Connor: Yeah. [00:27:45] Elena: The future. When you imagine your life at 30- [00:27:49] Connor: Ooh ... [00:27:49] Elena: relationships, career, who you are, and what does this picture look like, and what does feel most uncertain or scary about getting there? [00:28:00] Connor: I think if I think of the ideal version of my life when I'm 30, I wanna have a very solidified career with a, a very clear retirement path, with a very flushed out set of finances. [00:28:14] Connor: I, I wanna be somewhat wealthy, upper middle class. I wanna work hard and be able to provide for my family. At that point in time, I would hope to be married. Maybe not kids yet, but I would hope to be on that track. And I guess the, the scariest part of that is Likely the career aspect. Likely, you know, the, the fiscal element of the e- equation. [00:28:34] Connor: I don't wanna be in a position where I can't send my children to the best school, where I can't provide for my wife, or where I can't go to a, an amusement park on the weekends with the family. I wanna really, really be career-oriented and be financially stable. I think that's sort of my main priority and where I see myself in, in 10 years now, nine years. [00:28:55] Connor: Gosh. [00:28:55] Elena: Wow. [00:28:56] Connor: Yeah. [00:28:57] Elena: Regret and growth. At 21, you already live enough to have things you'd do differently. [00:29:03] Connor: Mm. [00:29:04] Elena: Is there a belief, habit, or choice from even just the last few years that you had to unlearn or grow past? [00:29:14] Connor: I don't know about any regrets in particular because I'm a firm believer that everything you have done in your life brings you to where you are today, and I'm somewhat satisfied with who I am as an individual. [00:29:23] Connor: Obviously, I'm still learning and growing, but I can't really point to one particular re- regret other than perhaps treating people better. You know? I, I was a fairly angry teenager. I can attest to that. I was very upset with life and my own existence and confused. But other than that, there's not one specific instance that I can say I regret. [00:29:46] Connor: I think that would be the general... What was the, the other second half of the question? [00:29:49] Elena: Uh, regret and growth. [00:29:51] Connor: Growth. [00:29:51] Elena: That if there's something that you change in the last few years that you have to, uh, relearn or change. [00:29:57] Connor: That I'm hoping to grow currently. [00:29:58] Elena: And I think probably- [00:29:59] Connor: Yeah ... [00:30:00] Elena: with religion because I assume you grew up with specific religion and then you get, you did your own exploration, so that's part of the growth. [00:30:06] Connor: Yeah. My mother was Catholic. She was raised Catholic, and I went to another number of, of churches with her, and I always had an interest in religion. I never really started asking questions or asked myself, like, "Why do I believe what I believe, and is this accurate?" Until, like, maybe 12 or 13. But yeah, sure, I, I could say that growth maybe spiritually is a objective of mine. [00:30:26] Elena: Mm-hmm. [00:30:27] Connor: I would say, you know, my perspective on mortality is probably different than yours is because- [00:30:32] Elena: Yeah ... [00:30:32] Connor: it seems like some long, far-off, distant issue to address at a later point. And so I would say that a, a more current Idea of growth might just be career-oriented, and I know that sounds repetitive, but I, I really wanna focus on my education and my career. [00:30:50] Connor: I, I think that's where- [00:30:51] Elena: Yeah ... [00:30:51] Connor: i'm gonna grow the most in my life. [00:30:52] Elena: This is where the, the season of your life right now is about your education- [00:30:55] Connor: Yeah ... [00:30:55] Elena: your career. [00:30:55] Connor: Yeah. That's, that's just where I am. [00:30:57] Elena: That's fair. [00:30:57] Connor: Yeah. [00:30:57] Elena: Mental and physical health. Young men are often told to just push through when it comes to mental health. [00:31:05] Elena: Have you ever struggled with that? And what does taking care of yourself actually looks like for you? And you did say that you, you resolve your own. [00:31:14] Connor: Yeah. I, uh, I mean, gosh, I- I'm gonna say this, but I wouldn't recommend it, you know. Uh, I read a lot of German philosophers. I don't think that Nietzsche is, relatively speaking, a, a good author to read if you're in a depressive state. [00:31:30] Connor: It honestly made me more depressed, but then through that, I, I found some meaning and purpose in my life. I really do wanna say go find help, but the question is, like, what even is help within society? I mean, therapy is a commercialized industry, right? If you talk to women within your life about your issues, there tends to be this narrative of like, "Oh, so you're weak. You're not capable. You know, you're struggling," and nobody wants to be seen in that light. I- it's a really difficult issue. I would say, depending on the severity, obviously if you're suicidal, go seek a therapist, go seek psychiatric care, whatever it may be. But if you're in just sort of like a, a semi-depressive state, maybe you do take the path that I take. [00:32:12] Connor: Read a lot of books, read a lot of philosophy and theology. Perhaps you can find some form or another of meaning in your life throughout that. That would be my recommendation. That's what I did. I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily happy with- How I felt going through those times or, you know, diving into philosophy and th- theology, I, I, it didn't help initially, but I think after some time it did. [00:32:35] Connor: And so, I mean, that, that's really all that I ha- would have to say on that. Obviously, people are at different stages in their life. The younger that you are, the more hope you have for the future. As you get older and more solidified in whatever career space you have, I'm sure it, it becomes increasingly more unhappy to stay there. [00:32:51] Connor: And so I d- I wouldn't really have advice for anybody older than me, only maybe in your teenage years. That, that would be my answer. Yeah. [00:32:58] Elena: Okay. Thank you for that. I have more questions, but we're running out of time. [00:33:02] Connor: Yes, yes. [00:33:02] Elena: So we're gonna go into this thing I call a rapid fire questions. Okay. I say one or two things, and you answer as fast as you can. [00:33:09] Connor: Excellent. [00:33:10] Elena: Whatever comes to your mind is, is great. [00:33:12] Connor: Cool. [00:33:13] Elena: AI. [00:33:14] Connor: Destructive. [00:33:16] Elena: Fatherhood. [00:33:17] Connor: Necessary. [00:33:18] Elena: Profession. [00:33:19] Connor: Also necessary. [00:33:21] Elena: Mind. [00:33:22] Connor: Fast. [00:33:24] Elena: Evolution. [00:33:25] Connor: Unforgiving. [00:33:26] Elena: Happiness. [00:33:27] Connor: Overvalued. [00:33:28] Elena: Soul. [00:33:30] Connor: Overvalued. [00:33:30] Elena: Gratitude. [00:33:32] Connor: Gratitude? Necessary as well. [00:33:34] Elena: Authority. [00:33:35] Connor: Distrust. [00:33:36] Elena: Leadership. [00:33:37] Connor: Not for me. [00:33:37] Elena: Parents. [00:33:39] Connor: Two. Two needed. We need two. [00:33:42] Elena: Authenticity. [00:33:43] Connor: Essential. [00:33:45] Elena: Food. [00:33:46] Connor: Yum. [00:33:47] Elena: Transformation. [00:33:48] Connor: Philosophical. [00:33:49] Elena: Men. [00:33:50] Connor: Strong. [00:33:52] Elena: Time. [00:33:53] Connor: Fast. [00:33:53] Elena: Fear. [00:33:54] Connor: Great. [00:33:55] Elena: Knowledge. [00:33:57] Connor: Read. [00:33:58] Elena: Fulfillment. [00:33:59] Connor: Unnecessary. [00:34:00] Elena: Pornography. [00:34:02] Connor: Damaging. [00:34:03] Elena: Society. [00:34:05] Connor: Broken. [00:34:06] Elena: Connection. [00:34:07] Connor: Unique. [00:34:08] Elena: Discrimination. [00:34:09] Connor: Conflated. [00:34:10] Elena: Spiritual. Spirituality. [00:34:12] Connor: Personal. Mm-hmm. Personal. [00:34:13] Elena: Go- God. [00:34:15] Connor: Unknown. [00:34:16] Elena: Service. [00:34:17] Connor: Good. [00:34:18] Elena: Music. [00:34:19] Connor: I love music. Bliss. [00:34:22] Elena: Values. [00:34:23] Connor: Good. Keep it simple. [00:34:24] Elena: Love language. [00:34:26] Connor: Touch. [00:34:27] Elena: Legacy. [00:34:28] Connor: Wanted. [00:34:30] Elena: Emotions. [00:34:31] Connor: Difficult. [00:34:32] Elena: Exercise. [00:34:34] Connor: Necessary. [00:34:35] Elena: Health. [00:34:36] Connor: Cognitive. [00:34:37] Elena: Women. [00:34:38] Connor: Difficult. [00:34:39] Elena: Social media. [00:34:40] Connor: Damaging. [00:34:41] Elena: Stress. [00:34:42] Connor: Useful. [00:34:43] Elena: Life. [00:34:44] Connor: Hard. [00:34:44] Elena: Death. [00:34:46] Connor: Harder [00:34:47] Elena: Monogamy [00:34:48] Connor: No [00:34:49] Elena: Polygamy [00:34:50] Connor: Oh, oh [00:34:52] Elena: Yeah, I think- [00:34:52] Connor: Yes, no. Yes, no. [00:34:54] Elena: Okay. [00:34:54] Connor: There we go. [00:34:55] Elena: Wealth. [00:34:58] Connor: Oh, geez, that's bad. Um... [00:35:01] Elena: Like, hell no. [00:35:03] Connor: Uh-oh. [00:35:03] Elena: Not monogamy for me. [00:35:05] Connor: No, no. Keeping my options open. Yeah. Gotta save myself for Elena. [00:35:09] Elena: Yeah. [00:35:09] Connor: Um. [00:35:10] Elena: If I'm Wrecker- [00:35:11] Connor: Oh, gosh ... [00:35:12] Elena: did you hear that? [00:35:14] Connor: What was your question? [00:35:15] Elena: I forgot. [00:35:16] Connor: No. [00:35:16] Elena: I'm in dark listening to you. [00:35:18] Connor: We're in the miniature now. [00:35:18] Elena: Who else? [00:35:19] Connor: Wealth. Good. [00:35:20] Elena: Intimacy. Intimacy. [00:35:22] Connor: Hard. [00:35:23] Elena: Okay. [00:35:23] Connor: Hard. [00:35:24] Elena: Birthright [00:35:27] Connor: John Locke [00:35:28] Elena: Manhood [00:35:29] Connor: Damaged [00:35:30] Elena: Conversation [00:35:32] Connor: Enjoyable [00:35:33] Elena: Body. The body [00:35:35] Connor: Obnoxious [00:35:36] Elena: Family [00:35:37] Connor: Turmoil [00:35:38] Elena: Money [00:35:40] Connor: Good. [00:35:41] Elena: Sex [00:35:42] Connor: Good within the confines of marriage [00:35:44] Elena: Pain [00:35:45] Connor: Useful as well [00:35:47] Elena: Pleasure [00:35:48] Connor: Unnecessary [00:35:49] Elena: Wife [00:35:50] Connor: Strong [00:35:51] Elena: Empowerment [00:35:53] Connor: Good [00:35:53] Elena: Husband [00:35:55] Connor: Leader [00:35:56] Elena: Identity [00:35:57] Connor: Career [00:35:58] Elena: and love [00:36:01] Connor: Needed. Yeah. [00:36:04] Elena: You've been really generous, very authentic. I love having you here and I will love for you to come back. [00:36:09] Connor: Thank you. [00:36:10] Elena: I have more questions. Yeah. I will have questions for you. I am, uh- [00:36:13] Connor: Very fun ... [00:36:13] Elena: fascinated by your mind and your s- your personality. And I, you know, from the day we met, from the second we met. So two questions. The first one- [00:36:24] Connor: Yes ... [00:36:24] Elena: actually one question, who will you perceive will be the perfect guest for this podcast? [00:36:29] Connor: Perfect guest for this podcast. Oh, gosh. Would it be odd to say Jordan Peterson? I don't know if that's a possibility, but- [00:36:37] Elena: Everything is a possibility ... [00:36:38] Connor: jordan Peterson. Yeah. [00:36:39] Elena: Thank you. As we close this episode, I would like for you to say something of wisdom to leave our audience and our, those of watching this episode with some words of wisdom. [00:36:53] Elena: So please give us your wisdom. [00:36:55] Connor: Gosh, I don't know if I have a lot of wisdom to give, but I'll try. I think, you know, society's very broken, and we have to change that by first changing our legislator. We need to go out and we need to, we need to vote. We need to win the House, we need to win the Senate, and we need to pass bills that- Help fix our society. [00:37:14] Connor: I think we need to come together collectively and understand that men are valuable in their given place and women are valuable in their given place, and that although we may be different and better at different things, if we work hard, we can build a society where both men and women can excel at what they're good at and work in tandem and work in partnership. [00:37:36] Connor: And I think that, that really starts with being engaged in your local politics and being engaged in, you know, the upcoming elections. I think that it's necessary and we need to be involved and need to get out there. That's, that's really the only wisdom that I have to give i- is get out there and vote. [00:37:52] Connor: And if you wanna make a change, then go, go work towards that change. Don't just sit there and angrily tweet about it on Instagram or Twitter, you know? Don't, um- [00:38:00] Elena: Be the action. [00:38:01] Connor: Yeah, be the action. Be the change. See it through. Yeah. [00:38:05] Elena: That's beautiful. Thank you so much. I see where your concerns and your dreams and everything, and I would love to continue to build a friendship with you where I still get to see you, uh- [00:38:14] Connor: Yeah [00:38:14] Elena: growing up, continue to grow up and become the 30-year-old man that you visualize. [00:38:21] Connor: Hopefully we'll get there. [00:38:22] Elena: Thank you for being here. And again, I hope to see you again soon. And for those of you, I hope you enjoyed this, uh, episode, because I did. This is the beautiful mind of a 21-year-old. If you were heartbroken because everything was last, no, we have one here, and I'm sure we have many, many more. [00:38:39] Elena: Thank you, and I will connect with you soon by listening to us or watching us. Thank you for sharing your time with us. [00:38:50] Connor: Thank you. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. [00:38:53] Elena: Thank you, Connor. [00:38:54] Voiceover: And that's a wrap on today's conversation. These are the kinds of exchanges that don't happen by accident. They happen because Elena Sofia Ruiz creates the space for them. [00:39:05] Voiceover: If something landed for you today, don't keep it to yourself. Share this episode with someone who's ready for a real conversation. You'll find everything you need in the show notes. We'll see you next time on Intimate Conversations With Men.