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Theresa Marks - A Spiritual Bill of Rights · Urantia Radio

0:00
Welcome to another edition of the Arrancha Radio Podcast.
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My name is Jim Watkins, your host, where we talk about the
0:05
5th epical revelation. My guest this time up is Teresa
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Marks. She lives in the Northwest
0:12
Oregon area of the United States and she's a prolific musician
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and an ardent student of the Arrancha book and quite a
0:18
prolific writer as well. That's how I came across her
0:21
work. One of her writings had to do
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with a unique concept I think you will appreciate hearing
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about. It's called the Spiritual Bill
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of Rights. Teresa also shares her
0:32
experience with Seeking truth and desires to help others on
0:35
the same path. So we'll get underway with the
0:38
Conversation on the Rancho Radio podcast.
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And by the way, there's a she not only bring, but by the way
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she not only brings her ideas, but her music performance as
0:48
well. She is a self-proclaimed
0:59
spiritual rights activist, A trained spiritual director which
1:03
we'll get into. Also the author of a spiritual
1:07
Bill of Rights for Humanity, which we'll also talk to her
1:10
about. She arrived at her calling to be
1:12
a spiritual director with after a long healing process from the
1:16
hurt she experienced during her 38 years in institutional
1:20
religion. We're going to cover a lot of
1:22
stuff having to do with this now.
1:24
She left her native religion in 2004 and she went through a 23
1:29
year deconstruction and reconstruction process which
1:33
included explorations of many diverse spiritual paths.
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And then, lo and behold, in 2013, ladies and gentlemen, she
1:42
was introduced to the Urantia book by her late husband, Bruce
1:46
Porter, who was, by the way, former president of the Urantia
1:50
Association, US. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance
1:52
to meet him. And there's so much more about
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this woman. I'm telling you, she has got I I
1:57
am shameful. I am humbled by her coming on
2:01
this program and she's a wonderful musician and I'm so
2:04
envious because I love music and I have no talent.
2:10
So I've tried, let me tell you. And so it's a good thing.
2:15
My parents told me that I might have convinced myself I was
2:18
really good and tried to get on a talent show.
2:20
So, but anyway, Teresa, it's good to have you here, and I
2:23
want to talk about a lot of things.
2:26
First of all, how did you find out?
2:28
And what was your original thought about the ranch book
2:31
when you first read it, when you first were introduced to it?
2:35
Oh my gosh. Well, of course I met.
2:37
When I met Bruce, he told me about it.
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That was the first I ever heard of it.
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And he he he always told me well it's not it's not a big issue
2:46
for me if you never feel drawn to read it and so but but we
2:51
were around a lot of Urantia book readers and so I was you
2:55
know just exposed to all the Urantia book jargon you know
2:58
like thought adjuster and planetary prints and all that
3:01
stuff. And and finally three years down
3:04
the road in 2013 I finally picked up the book and I started
3:10
reading. I think it was like the the
3:12
paper on, you know, ad the default of Adam and Eve and some
3:16
of those things. And and I was just kind of like,
3:19
I'm not sure about this, you know, it don't sounds like a
3:23
strange version of a fairy tale or something like that.
3:26
But then I got to the thotted gesture papers and the
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beautiful, you know, writing about how we all have this, this
3:38
indwelling spirit, you know, this, this fragment of the true
3:42
God in US and then and that we at someday we will fuse with
3:48
that spirit. And that just touched me to the
3:51
core and and after that point I just kind of like, I just
3:57
thought, you know, this, this is true.
3:59
This this book is true. There's something.
4:02
It has that quality right? I had a friend once I I
4:06
introduced the book to and there aren't that many people that are
4:10
receptive to it. At least that's been my
4:11
experience. But like you they read the
4:14
thought adjuster part and bam, they they were sold it just it
4:18
touched them in a certain way, you know.
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So for me it was paper 155 in the second Discourse on
4:25
Religion. But I want to get into your so
4:27
so you found the book you're with your husband are you were
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you living in in Oregon at that time or were you living in
4:34
Chicago? Where were you in your life when
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you when? You I was in Oregon and we
4:41
actually Co helped to run the Kindred Spirits Retreat center
4:47
in Eugene OR area for several years together and and that was
4:53
a wonderful adventure and of course it started as a new
4:58
Rancho new Rancho LED retreat. But then we we branched out into
5:04
other other retreats as well. So we Bruce and I just basically
5:10
provided the space to host spiritual retreats of different
5:14
kinds. Yeah.
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So it was, you know? Well, I think learning and
5:20
talking to other people. Did you find anything that was
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common about some of the folks that you found were reading the
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arranged book? Any commonalities of experience?
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I mean, yeah, definitely. Because those are the, those are
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the folks that are on real journey.
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I mean a lot of them like me, I think they were were hurt by
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religion. Either that or they were just
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questioning the religion they grew up with and they started on
5:51
the search and and they were you know blessed enough to find
5:56
this, this revelation. So it's definitely we're all
6:02
truth seekers, I think. Yeah, no, I know.
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I I actually asked for it. I said I I I'm, I was 19 and I
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said I'm ready. I I I was tired of looking.
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I got and I was talking like you.
6:15
You know I I talked to somebody and they were into Eckankar or
6:18
somebody who was a Buddhist and I dated a woman who was a
6:22
Baptist and and I went to church and there there was just
6:25
something that wasn't a complete picture for me.
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And I'm saying this because I think we all have that sort of
6:31
common we're looking for the truth.
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Where is it? And I just, I put it before God
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and I said whatever it is, let me know.
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And then two years later, I literally stepped into it and it
6:42
was an amazing thing. But this isn't about me.
6:45
This is about you. So you're do you consider
6:47
yourself still a what you would call a Christian?
6:54
I I like to call myself a follower of Jesus, OK?
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Because there's there's so much, unfortunately, there's so much
7:04
negative baggage around the term Christian and some of that still
7:09
kind of touches me and the the, you know, bad experience I had
7:14
with my and it was a Christian religion, you know, that I grew
7:17
up in. And so I'd like to.
7:21
I'd like to avoid that, especially in talking to other
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folks who are healing from their own bad experience with
7:27
religion. So, but, but I like to say I'm a
7:29
follower of Jesus. Yeah, I say that too.
7:32
A Jesus, Sony and and people look at me and go, well isn't
7:35
that the same thing? And I say, Oh no, if you only
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knew. So let's talk about that,
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because that is something in in in not only this discussion, but
7:44
how are people damaged by religion?
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Wow. Well, you know, a lot of
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different ways, but I I thought maybe I'd just kind of share
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sort of my personal story with it because so I I grew up in a
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strict religion that I would, I would call kind of a high
8:03
control religion with lots of lots of rules lots of
8:06
obligations. And my my family was very
8:09
loving, but they were varied about.
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I was well indoctrinated into this.
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I didn't have any, you know, thoughts or you know, problems
8:19
with that until I hit like age 20 and I had my very first
8:24
relationship with, you know, with the boyfriend and he
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happened to be not religious as well.
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And so when when we became intimately involved, he had no
8:33
problems with that. But I was like, you know,
8:36
extremely guilt ridden and my religion basically told me that
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I was going to hell for that. And so finally it was ended up
8:46
being a long term relationship. We we finally married after five
8:51
years. And then after we got married,
8:53
my religion told me that I was going to hell for using birth
8:58
control. So, so basically for about 12
9:03
years of my life I was absolutely convinced that if I
9:09
accidentally died I would suffer eternal punishment.
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That is what I believed and I had that.
9:16
There were a lot of negative effects in my life with that I
9:21
had. I did have nightmares sometimes.
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I would have panic attacks and the stress of that definitely.
9:29
I know it definitely contributed to an eating disorder that I
9:33
developed during my 20s and 30s that it was kind of a process to
9:38
climb out of that. But I finally did.
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So there, there. There's a lot of different
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things that you know can can develop with this kind of trauma
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really. Because the these days there is
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a word for it. Therapists are now calling this
9:57
Religious trauma and. I don't think I like that word.
10:01
I don't like that phrase. It makes it sound like religion
10:04
as a whole is a bad thing. But yet I understand what you're
10:07
saying. Was there any point where you
10:10
felt like, OK, well, I'll just walk away from my religion.
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Well, not for many years, because So what happened was
10:18
finally our marriage hit a crisis point and I knew that I
10:23
needed God back in my life to to able to heal the mess of my
10:28
life, right? And so I I I reconciled with my
10:32
church and then I became like really obsessively devout.
10:38
I mean, I was spending two or three hours a day sometimes in
10:41
church. And the reason for that was
10:44
mostly because I was still afraid to death of of messing
10:48
up, accidentally messing up and going to hell.
10:53
And but but through that time you know that I that I was doing
11:00
all that in intensive prayer. I actually did develop a real
11:06
relationship with with the real God, right.
11:09
Not the judgmental God that my religion told me about.
11:14
And and through that, I realized that God was was kind of telling
11:19
me, hey, you actually don't need your religion to have a real
11:23
relationship with me. You can do this without religion
11:30
and so, so that's the way that that began the my 20 year
11:37
deconstruction and reconstruction process where I I
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explored a lot of different things and and eventually thank
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God was led to the Urantia Book. So yeah.
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You know, there's there's that that feeling.
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I know I I don't. I've always been a rebel anyway,
12:00
so it didn't matter, you know. To me it was God.
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You made me this way, so you know it's just as much as your
12:07
fault as it is mine. I mean that was always my
12:09
attitude, right? But I always had AI don't even
12:15
know where it came from, but I always had the most love and
12:19
admiration for Jesus. To me he was the guard.
12:22
He was the smart guy and and without knowing much about the
12:25
Bible I I just it was always a a very fine idea in my mind and I
12:31
had no idea where it came from until I came across paper 155 in
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the Arancha book where Jesus is talking about the discourse on
12:40
religion and his My most favorite quote is that to a man
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who has God in his heart all things are spiritual and I'd
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never heard it put that way before and he was it was just
12:52
and I know that you mentioned in in in some of our communications
12:55
about the importance of that area.
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So. So what was it like?
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Was there a feeling of spiritual liberation when you discover the
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Erantia book? Like, oh, I'm home.
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This is where you can explain that process to me.
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We're going to skip by the deconstruction and we'll talk
13:13
about the reconstruction. And so yeah.
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Yeah. And and I was already kind of on
13:20
a on a reconstruction process, you know, a few years before I
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saw found the Erantia book. But once I read that part in the
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gesture papers that you get to fuse with this fragment of God,
13:36
it was just mind blowing for me. It was I just felt like, wow,
13:40
this is more incredibly wonderful than I could ever
13:44
imagined because I had, you know, I I did start growing a
13:49
real relationship with God in while I was in, you know the old
13:55
fashioned religion I was in and I had a a very strong desire for
14:03
worship. Right.
14:05
And that was just like it It blew that whole idea of worship
14:09
out of the water. It was like you get to actually
14:11
fuse with it and the and after that I was just like this
14:15
thing's got to be real because this is just strikes such an
14:19
amazing deep chord of me and I, you know just kind of reading
14:25
through other parts of the book, it's like nobody could make this
14:28
up. I mean it's like 2000 pages.
14:31
How could anybody, with the consistent messages it has and
14:36
everything, how could anybody just sit here and make this up
14:39
so that it became really clear to me that that was it was the
14:46
truth, so. Can I can we go in the direction
14:49
of what happened to your husband, your late husband,
14:51
Bruce? Sure.
14:54
Because I'm sure that might must have been a devastating blow.
14:58
Here you are. You're in a new relationship,
15:01
You've you've rediscovered, rekindled your you got The
15:04
Urantia Book and with your life experience, and then this
15:07
happens. What happened?
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Gosh, he he had a chronic illness that really wore him
15:17
down for about three or four years and was going downhill.
15:21
And finally what, What? In October 2020, he died of a
15:26
brain aneurysm. And yeah.
15:31
It was. Yeah, it was sad but but but at
15:35
the same time, I knew he wasn't Over those three years he just
15:40
went downhill so much that he wasn't the same person and I
15:43
was. I was already grappling with it
15:45
and in in a grieving process with that.
15:47
So, and then and I I miss him, you know, of course, especially
15:56
that he was a Rancho book reader and we would have had so much to
15:59
to share now. But I miraculously found a
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wonderful man just two months after Bruce died.
16:10
And his name's Gary and we've been married for three years
16:13
now. And he lost his wife of 37 years
16:18
from colon cancer just within one month of when I lost Bruce.
16:22
Oh my and. Yeah.
16:24
And we, we found each other online on on Christian Mingle
16:29
actually. And I knew that, you know, I
16:33
needed another, you know, Jesus believer.
16:35
And he's a a beautiful man, a a beautiful man of God, a a
16:42
committed Christian. This is kind of a first for me
16:46
because I haven't been exposed to that sort of the evangelical
16:50
path and that's where he's from. But he's he's very open minded
16:53
though because he's supportive of my, you know my search with
17:00
the Urantia book and my being a reader and he's been very
17:04
supportive of my writing of the spiritual Bill of Rights.
17:09
And so he's not your typical he's angelical Christian and and
17:15
we have you know it was just a real miracle the two of us
17:19
meeting and he's also an artist. So an artist to my musician is a
17:25
real. Combination.
17:26
That's wonderful. Yeah.
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You know, I I there's a gentleman who runs an
17:31
organization called Genesis 123 and he's he's a he's born
17:36
Jewish, lives in Israel, but he's a Christian and he has made
17:40
it his purpose to bridge Christians and Jews.
17:44
I'd like to form an organization and bridge Christians with the
17:50
Urantia Book because I think one thing that I see over and over
17:53
and all of my talks is that that people it's it's either all or
17:58
nothing. If they throw out the baby with
18:01
the bathwater, if they they outgrow Christianity because
18:04
they think that it's or it's the other extreme, it's only
18:09
Christianity the way that the Christians define it and nothing
18:12
else. And if anything, you know, like
18:15
Revelations is quoted a lot, you know, beware of the false
18:18
prophets. And so there's a lot of
18:20
antagonism from Christians about this revelation, just as there
18:25
were a lot of antagonism against Jesus from the Jewish rulers of
18:30
the day. And it's remarkable the
18:32
similarities. And I say to my Christian
18:34
friends here and elsewhere, you don't know what you're missing,
18:38
and there's nothing to worry about here.
18:39
This is the revelation you've been waiting for, right?
18:43
And so now you're going to discard it because the Bible
18:47
says beware of false prophets. OK, that's good advice.
18:51
But you you can't just discount something just because someone
18:54
else told you so. And that's what they do over and
18:56
over. It's very tragic.
18:59
And we need their help. Actually, we need their help and
19:02
we can actually save Christianity, I think because
19:05
Christianity is not going in a good direction, right?
19:09
I mean, it's still popular, but but our institutions are like
19:13
you say, it's like, I didn't realize that they they're
19:17
talking about religious trauma that makes it sound like it's a
19:20
bad thing. Yeah.
19:22
And I don't mean that because, you know, obviously religion has
19:27
a wonderful place and there's so many gifts about each particular
19:31
religion. And and I still, I still have
19:33
good feelings about a lot of, you know, some of my religious
19:36
upbringing. They taught me how to pray.
19:40
They they gave me, you know, in my first connection to God.
19:45
But but it's it's the authoritarian versions that the
19:50
ones that tell you that you have to do this or else, you know God
19:54
will punish you. You know, those those are the
19:58
ones that that really can hurt people.
20:04
I I sat in on a religious deconstruction support group
20:07
online this summer, that there was a gal, I think she grew up
20:13
actually Jehovah's Witness and she decided at age 15 that she
20:17
was just not going to do any church related stuff anymore.
20:20
And her parents? They threw her out of the house
20:23
at age 15. So that's the kind of when you
20:28
when people are convinced that their spiritual path is the
20:33
truth, they can end up doing a lot of not good things because
20:40
of that. And a lot of guilt seems to be a
20:43
lot of guilt. Is that what a lot of the
20:46
so-called trauma comes from? Let's go down, because I do want
20:50
to get to your freedom of your spiritual Bill of Rights and
20:53
what you want to do with that. But what is what causes?
20:57
What are the common traits of people who have been traumatized
21:00
by bad religious experiences? What are some of the less
21:03
obvious ones? Not the obvious ones, but what
21:06
do we well? Yeah.
21:08
Well, there's obviously the, the trauma of, you know, of the
21:11
belief and how that causes a lot.
21:15
And then and and also another teaching that's been really
21:22
injurious has been the one that that we all have the sinful
21:25
nature that we're by, by nature we're sinful.
21:29
You know, the this idea of some religions called original sin.
21:34
But then the other part of it too is that and something that I
21:39
actually didn't experience is that religious representatives,
21:44
ministers, priests can actually abuse people.
21:47
And we've heard tons about that, you know, and thank God that
21:51
never happened to me. My, my trauma around it was only
21:57
through the indoctrination and through the beliefs.
22:00
It wasn't actually nobody to uphold.
22:03
My my whole history with that was actually mean to me.
22:10
But but when you put that in there too, it becomes terribly,
22:15
you know, injurious to people. Let.
22:18
Me ask you this, there's another kind of trauma that is the exact
22:22
opposite. And these are people who are
22:24
raised in atheist families, and they're taught to avoid
22:28
religion, to hate it, to despise it.
22:30
To me, that's a form of religious abuse because what
22:33
you're doing as a parent or as a role model is you're basically
22:36
indoctrinating your children to not have any recognition of the
22:40
spiritual value of life or that that anything that that his
22:44
smells or reeks of religion must be avoided at all costs.
22:48
I think that's equally traumatic because people then have all
22:51
kinds of problems in their life growing up and they can't
22:54
reconcile because they don't have that perspective.
22:58
Do you have any thoughts on that?
23:00
Oh yeah, I absolutely, 100% agree with you because that's
23:06
where atheism can get to be one of these authoritarian belief
23:11
systems. And it's a belief system that
23:14
they're, you know, when they, well, then they go to that point
23:20
where they're trying to, you know, plummet you with their
23:25
beliefs. It's it's just about as bad and
23:29
and and I would say probably worse because I have another
23:35
word for atheism and I I like to call it meaninglessness because
23:42
this whole world is meaningless without any, without God,
23:46
without the spiritual, you know. So I'm totally in agreement with
23:52
that. Yeah, I would say that.
23:54
It's like telling a child that they were an accident.
24:01
There's no reason. There's no special reason you're
24:03
here, so don't go down that trap because that's just religious
24:07
BS. You know, this is just a cosmic
24:10
accident that to me is damaging to a human's complete world
24:15
view. If they grow up thinking that
24:16
nothing really matters and that we only live on in our.
24:20
I mean it's like Oh yeah, well you live on in your children.
24:22
Well no you don't. I mean that.
24:25
I mean eternal non existence is just as frightening to me as
24:28
hell. In fact, I think it's worse, but
24:32
because I want to participate. So you know, without getting off
24:34
track toxic spiritual concepts, what are some toxic spiritual
24:39
concepts? Well, the three main ones that I
24:45
really mentioned in my document are the concept of eternal
24:50
punishment and the concept of a vengeful, wrathful God.
24:56
And and actually the Atonement concept, the and the arrangement
25:03
is very clear on in telling people that that is absolutely
25:07
false that that God would would send an innocent person, you
25:12
know his son Jesus to to die because he somehow needed to pay
25:18
a ransom. Rectify through, Yeah, it's a
25:22
ransom blood sacrifice, you know, and that and also this
25:29
idea of that we are innately sinful that we're innately bad.
25:35
Original sin is what some religions call it, I believe.
25:40
And so those are three ones that that have unfortunately become
25:46
like the cornerstones of a lot of Christian theology and that
25:54
that is really tragic. Yeah, let's talk about your
25:59
spiritual Bill of Rights, because it's sort of what I've
26:02
been alluding to. So you you've come up with the
26:06
seven spiritual rights of humanity.
26:08
What are they? OK, well.
26:12
I'm gonna put you on the spot there.
26:14
Yeah, why don't I just, I'll just, I'll just read these for
26:17
you and as as I state them in my document.
26:20
OK, excuse me. So #1 is the right of
26:24
individuals to connect directly with the Creator in their own
26:29
unique way, is fundamental to human spirituality and should be
26:34
forever protected, honored, and cherished.
26:38
And #2 is individual persons have a right to affirm their
26:45
inherent goodness as beloved children of the Creator.
26:51
I like that one. That's a good one.
26:54
Yeah, and #3. Individual persons have the
26:59
right to freedom from fear, especially fear of false divine
27:04
punishments. That's one of the most original
27:07
statements I've ever heard. On my 60 years of living on this
27:10
planet, I've never thought about that.
27:13
You should have a right to not fear the angels or not fear
27:17
divine punishment. I never gave that a thought
27:19
until I read what you just what you just.
27:22
Said yeah, fear is just fear. Is like is like the opposite of
27:27
love as far as what I have determined, you know, in my
27:33
search. So yeah, so #4 is individual
27:38
persons have the right to embark on their own search for truth,
27:44
#5 individual persons have the right to freedom from religious
27:50
obligations. Now what does that mean?
27:53
What is the? Are we shirking our cosmic duty
27:56
here or how would you explain that?
27:59
Well, what it is, is that any spiritual or religious practice
28:05
that you take up should be voluntary and it should grow out
28:11
of your natural relation, primary relationship with the
28:16
Creator. And so if you feel led to, you
28:21
know, do 11 practice or another, that's a beautiful thing.
28:25
And if it has meaning for you, that's a beautiful thing.
28:28
But in my tradition that I grew up in, there were so many
28:32
obligations and so many things that they said, you have to do
28:36
this or you're going to hell. I mean, it got ridiculous.
28:43
I know what you mean. So yeah, to my Muslim friends
28:45
they say, you know, we pay, we we we have to pray three times a
28:48
day and say, well why stop at three?
28:51
Why not 20? How about 23?
28:52
I I pray every 5 minutes, you know.
28:55
Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly.
28:59
So, OK, so two more of them. 6. Individual persons have the
29:04
right to access all spiritual leadership goals, regardless of
29:09
identity. I like that.
29:14
I like that. You know why?
29:15
Because it it it gives dignity to the person.
29:18
It restores that dignity that we have a right to question.
29:22
We have a right to answers. We have a right to find the
29:24
answers we have. I like these.
29:27
These are good. Yeah, yeah.
29:30
I think, I think that just about any, you know, sincere your
29:35
ranch book reader is going to like, really love these.
29:38
Yeah, because they they are. Now this last one you have here
29:42
is a little bit controversial, but I want to hear.
29:46
Yeah, but go ahead and tell everybody.
29:48
Yeah, and I want to. I want to address that as well.
29:51
But #7 individual persons have the right to determine their own
29:57
loving and committed human partnerships.
30:00
And what I want to stress about this is that relationships, as
30:08
the Urantia Book tells us, are the the lasting things in our
30:12
lives. They are the things that have
30:14
spiritual value. And we will know, you know,
30:18
people in the mansion worlds that that we've had real
30:21
relationships with. And if if you just tell a whole
30:26
huge group of people that they cannot have, you know, a a a
30:33
human partnership, a marriage, basically I'm what I'm talking
30:36
about, that cuts them off from a whole huge bunch of spiritual
30:44
growth that they could have in their life if they had that kind
30:47
of relationship. And So what it is is protecting
30:51
the spiritual growth that you can have in these relationships
30:57
which is really important. And and I, I know that that, you
31:03
know the LGBT issues are controversial for some people.
31:08
They they aren't for me personally because I I, you
31:12
know, I feel that that those folks have always everybody I've
31:19
met who is that way has told me that they're they knew they were
31:25
that way from an early age. And I can't imagine that that
31:33
that God would prevent them from living their lives and and that
31:37
God would prevent them from having you know, a loving
31:42
committed relationship. I'm not talking about
31:45
promiscuity. I'm not talking about any of
31:47
that stuff. I'm talking about monogamous,
31:50
lifelong, you know, in in the spiritual growth that comes from
31:56
that, whoever you are, whether you know, whether it's two men,
32:01
two women, a man and a woman. There's a lot of spiritual
32:05
growth that comes from that. And if you don't have that
32:07
opportunity, then you're missing out on a huge, huge bunch of
32:13
spiritual growth that you could be doing.
32:15
No, it's true. And there are, there are
32:16
statements, frank statements made in the Urancha book that
32:20
very especially in the in the marriage and family life and it
32:24
talks about the fact that not everybody is going to fit into
32:27
these well defined roles. There are going to be exceptions
32:30
to the rule and there are. And you also have to give
32:34
cordial acceptance to people for being.
32:38
They may not necessarily have a relationship with a a man
32:40
because of trust issues, or could be a whole host of
32:43
emotional reasons why people seek out certain partnerships.
32:47
But all partnerships that are fundamentally rooted in
32:51
spiritual growth are are good things, and I think that's what
32:54
you're trying to say. So it it should exactly.
32:57
That's. Exactly.
32:59
Do we have time? I think we could go there was
33:01
another element to your spiritual rights.
33:04
Bill of Rights. Can we talk a little bit about
33:07
just I think you know maybe close this off with some ideas
33:11
on what what would be the message to our Christian
33:14
brothers and sisters about getting them to see that they're
33:19
going to have to make some adjustments or they're going to
33:22
continue to lose their impact in society, which is dangerously
33:28
low at this point. How do we, how do we get them to
33:33
come back in and and take a a renewed.
33:35
I don't know how would you say it a renewed examination of what
33:40
the the for example I get into conversations about people who
33:44
are just so devout and and they to them it's important that
33:48
Jesus walked on water OK but to a person who isn't a Christian
33:54
you know to to go and say you know mother Mary had a baby
33:57
without without Joseph it was Immaculate Conception.
34:01
These are a lot of people that that's why they leave
34:03
Catholicism, because they want to believe in something.
34:07
But it can't sound like science fiction.
34:09
It can't sound like superstition.
34:11
It can't sound like myth. So we have to separate the myth
34:15
from from Christianity and focus on the gospel, which is that
34:18
we're all children of a loving father, and thereby we're all
34:22
brothers and sisters. How do we get, how do we break
34:24
down those barriers between Christians and people who want
34:27
to introduce them to the Urantia Book?
34:29
Wow. It's hard, but it's a hard
34:34
question. But I do.
34:36
I have a suggestion though. There is this wonderful It's
34:41
your rancher based learning course materials.
34:47
It's called the Christ Experiment School of Ambassadors
34:51
and what it was is to. I think it's to Urania book
34:55
readers who were former Jehovah's Witnesses and they
34:59
know their scripture big time developed a course that can help
35:06
Urania book readers basically kind of like Witness to
35:10
Christians and bring in these actual spiritual truths from the
35:16
Urania book but only using traditional scripture.
35:23
So they've gone through the scripture with a fine tooth comb
35:27
and said hey, this is a Urantia book concept that we can use
35:30
that we can point out to Christians and only have to use
35:34
the scripture because they aren't open to the Urantia book
35:38
yet. But so I actually took their
35:41
course and it was just amazing and I actually at the end of the
35:46
course I that's when I actually discerned my calling to be a
35:52
spiritual director. And but I would just recommend
35:58
any uranium book reader to go through this course because it
36:02
just give you such an appreciation for the Jesus
36:08
papers for one. And also looking at biblical
36:13
scripture with new eyes and seeing, oh, there is some real
36:17
good stuff in there, you know, And and I think that kind of
36:22
approach is that the approach that we need to our Christian
36:26
brothers and sisters because by and large, they aren't going to
36:31
accept the arranger book. But if we start talking to them
36:36
in this way, then there there definitely can be openings.
36:39
And and there are instances when you can go in and say, hey, you
36:44
know, the stuff I've been talking to you about.
36:46
Well, there's a whole book of that right here, you know.
36:49
Right. So.
36:51
Well, Teresa, so you're you're, is it?
36:55
I don't want to call you a spiritual advisor, but what is
36:58
the term you use? Spiritual.
37:00
Spiritual. Director and that's a sort of a
37:03
traditional term that I think it actually grew out of Catholicism
37:06
actually. But basically it's it's
37:09
providing a like a safe and sacred place for people to talk
37:15
about their spiritual journeys and what is, you know, what
37:19
their relationship with God is doing.
37:22
And and so I just sit there and listen.
37:28
But but listen attentively and with my connection to my
37:35
indwelling spirit, to be constantly there asking, OK,
37:40
what is it that this person might need to hear from me to
37:45
help them on their journey? And so it's like a spiritual
37:48
counselor using yeah I I can see that and we need a lot we need
37:53
an army of the and that I think is in line with more of the
37:57
fellowships idea of the growth of the Urantia book is that they
38:00
had the brotherhood that became the fellowship was for that very
38:04
purpose to bring about and train people in this generation for
38:09
the 4th you know the the years to come when people will be
38:13
looking for something like the Urantia Book and we'll have the
38:15
answers that they need. So Well, Teresa, it sure has
38:19
been great to talk with you again.
38:23
If if people want to find out more about you and what you do,
38:26
what would be a good way for them to do that?
38:29
Oh gosh, I have a website that's in the works right now.
38:34
It's not going to be up probably until next week.
38:38
Should I give you that? For sure.
38:40
Why not? Yeah, give it.
38:41
Well, I'll tell you what. Let's do this when it's up, send
38:44
me a note and I'll mention it and I'll make sure that people
38:47
are aware of it. And then we'll have you back on
38:48
again too, to talk about it too. So that would be.
38:51
Good. Would be awesome, yeah.
38:53
I wonder if I could say just one more thing though about where
38:56
I'm kind of a vision I have for this Bill of Rights and this
39:00
whole message, OK, Because I I'm have a sense and I think it's
39:09
it's my thought just or nudging me that that this this could be
39:13
a, you know, a huge message for a lot of a lot of people
39:16
throughout the world. And this message is basically
39:22
your Rancho Book message. And so I am hoping that I can
39:29
get other folks, other leaders, experienced leaders and teachers
39:34
in the Rancho Book community to help me spread this.
39:37
And specifically spread the principles in this document to
39:45
especially to progressive religion, religious and
39:51
spiritual leaders so that they can in turn take it to their
39:58
communities and help them, you know, see these important
40:02
principles that can help uplift. You know the religious and
40:06
spiritual consciousness for the world.
40:09
But I so I've come up with this document and I I'm just a really
40:14
small flawed person trying to do sort of a big thing and I would
40:19
just love some help from from those people in the new Rancho
40:24
book community have been in the trenches for years.
40:26
I know so many of them have have devoted their lives to this.
40:31
I mean, you've done a lot too and I'm just getting started.
40:34
So anybody who has any interest in this, go to my website when
40:39
it's up, read it. And I'm also planning on
40:43
recording, you know, a version of it, just reading it so people
40:46
don't have to to to read it, They can just listen to it.
40:50
And please get back to me if you have any interest if this
40:55
resonates with you. Absolutely.
40:57
Teresa Marks in Portland, she also mentions that.
41:00
Did you mention that you played for the Portland OR Opera
41:03
Orchestra and other orchestras in and around the area and
41:06
you're a resident of Salem, OR, which is a beautiful part of the
41:09
country. I wish you luck.
41:11
I'll send you prayers. After all, you're not that far
41:14
from Portland and it's really good to speak with you and get
41:18
to know you. And I love your spirit and I I
41:21
look forward to having you on again when when you get the
41:24
website up and talk more about your your journey as well as
41:27
your mission. So thank you Teresa Marks, for
41:29
joining me on The Ranch Radio Podcast.
41:32
Well, thank you so much Jim for having me.
41:34
This is my my first time doing anything like this and I really
41:37
appreciate it.