Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Nolan Arenado nixes Astros trade, now what

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Nolan Arenado nixes Astros trade, now what · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You know, I still think that there is time for
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: both sides to get a deal. I also think that
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: there is a chance he comes to Saint Louis next
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: year and stays there.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey with up. Hello.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I'm Katie Wu, Cardinals beat writer for The Athletic and
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the co host of the Cardinal Territory Podcast. I am
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: joined here today by someone who needs no introduction, but
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give him one anyway. Let's welcome Polo Esensio,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: voice of the Cardinals Spanish radio broadcast, as our very
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: first guest in Cardinal Territory history.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Polo, I am so honored that you are here with
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: me today.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: I am honored to be here, like like seriously, I
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: know it's a big deal for you. I know it's
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: a big deal for me, and it's a big deal
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: for Cardinal Nation because we are living in very interesting
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: times when we follow the Cardinals, when we hear what's
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: going on, what happened the last couple of seasons, What's
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: happened this last season, what happened yesterday, what's going to
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: happen today and tomorrow? So excited to be here. Congratulations
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: and best of luck the rest of the ways. So
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: I know We can go on and on and on,
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: but let's get too and let's get to the meat
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: because there's a lot of meat. There's a lot of potatoes.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: So Cardinal Nation, they're excited to hear what you have
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: to say, Katie Woolf.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Well, let's get to it.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: For those of you new to the podcast, most of
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: you are considering, it's about three days old.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: You can find us on YouTube.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: You can subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple, wherever you
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: get your podcasts. You can follow us on Twitter or
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: x whatever you call it. Now at card Territory, let's
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: get into it. There was some newsy things yesterday Polo
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: with the Saint Louis Cardinals and Nolan Arenado right here, Uh,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Nolan Arnado Nix's a trade to the Houston Astros for now.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: This news was reported yesterday first by MLB dot Com,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Mark Fine Sanjohn Denton, Brian McTaggart, and there's some additional
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: information and context up on The Athletic by myself and
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Astros beat writer for The Athletic, Chandler Rome. Let's talk
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: about it here. What are your thoughts on this?
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: My thoughts is, uh, I'm gonna start with what I
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: think Nolan is thanking. I don't know what he's thinking.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure he knows what he's thinking, but
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: he is taking his time. When you when I heard
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: the news of like, oh wow, that's crazy. But then
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: you start thinking about it, you start reading about it
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: and listening to what it's out there, including your your
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: fine pieces that you put yesterday. The Astros were not
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: on his list, right, the list, right, I'm sure somebody
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: has seen the list. I don't. I don't. I don't
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: know the list, but people say they are not on
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: his list. So he's I think he needs to take
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: time to understand what the next step will be if
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: he moves on to the Astros. I read a lot
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: and it said for now, right, he said, I'm not
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: going there for now, But that doesn't mean that he's
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: not going to change his mind once Christmas, once New
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Year's and let's let's be honest, you're no no joking.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Christmas is next week. New Year's is a couple of
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: weeks from now. We all want to be relaxed during
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: New Year Christmas. Maybe that's what he wants. Maybe that's
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: what Nolan wants. He's like, you know what, maybe I
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: will go to the Astros. Once all this Christmas New
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Year's happens, then we will revisit. Now. Will the Astros
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: be waiting for Nolan or to revisit I don't know,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: because as we all know, they have Alex Pregman there
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: waiting for them to offer, or they are waiting for
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: him to accept again. I don't know all the details,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: but I don't see anything wrong. I really don't, because
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: it's his future. It's Nolan's future, and when my future
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: is a play, I want to make sure that I
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: am making the right decision. And if he thinks he
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: needs to take time to say yes or a definite
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: note to the Astros, he will. Now on the other side,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: if you are the Cardinals, and seriously, a great job
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: from the Cardinals of looking to make sure Nolan is happy, right,
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: he said, I want to go to a team that
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: is going to be winning the next few years. The
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: Astros look like a team they're going to be winning,
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: and they have for the almost a decade now decade now.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: And the Cardinals you already heard it. They re said
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: their reboot, their re whatever. So good job by by
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Moe and and his people. The front office, Tim whoever
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: was involved on looking out there, listening and at least
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: in this case, picking a team that they know is
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: going to win, or at least we think it's going
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: to win. Now it's up to Nolan to accept or not.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: And it's up to the car say you know, okay,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: we already picked a team. You said, no, guess what
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: We're gonna be here. If you want to go somewhere,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: let us know and we will talk to that team,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: or perhaps you and your agent can start talking to
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: those teams and come back to us. I think those
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: are very different situations with the same subject, which is
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Nolan now though, and making sure that one of the
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: best third basemen of all time has a chance to win,
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: to win, to get to the play I have and
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: perhaps go to the World Series. That's what I think
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: this morning, after what we heard and what we saw yesterday.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think those are fantastic points and I tend
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: to agree with you.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Look, the key Free is that we've been focusing on
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: with this sport is the four now. And you know
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: we spoke about this.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I wrote about this on the Athletic talks about it
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: on foul Territory This afternoon, all Nolan said was, Hey,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: it's a no for now, it's not a no forever.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: And the primary belief, and it's important to note Nolan
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: himself has not had any public commentary on this. This
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: is all source information. Obviously. We trust the information that
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: we're getting, otherwise we wouldn't be using it.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: All. You know that Nolan is doing right now is
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: more tie punching bags. I mean, he's getting ready for
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: our war whatever it is. So sorry about that, Katie,
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: but I just think you're.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: His Instagram story. So he's hit hit in the gym.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I see it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: He's getting strong, he's getting strong.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: But it's it's just a matter of the timing not
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: being right. You know, it's December nineteenth, and in the
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: great scheme of the MLB off season calendar, we're already
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: almost half.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: We're over had the halfway point, which is scary.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: But Nolan's market, the third base market, the corner and
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: field market, that's still relatively undefined and it's going to
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: be that way until Alex Bregman signs. So if he's
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: not ready to say yes to a destination because he
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: is not sure what his own market looks like yet,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: that's his right that's why teams give you a no
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: full note trade clause. He's earned it, right, so I
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: have no issue with this. This is the what the
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: player wants, you know. From the Cardinals side, If I'm
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: John Moseaelack, I'm annoyed. I'm mad because he has bosses
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: he has to satisfy, right, and we know the Cardinals
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: are trying to bring payroll down. That's out of John
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: moseae loaf decision. He does not decide what payroll is.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: The owners of the Cardinals do. So. The primary reason
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals wanted to trade Arnatto in the first place
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: was to offload some of that payroll get.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Some financial relief.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: In that deal with the Astros, they were only paying
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: five million per season approximately for the next three years,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: so they were roughly owed fifteen million dollars of the
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: remaining seventy four million on Arnatta's contract. That's a huge,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: huge salary relief. It's a perfect deal if you're John mozeyloc.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't a perfect deal for Nolan. So both
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: parties have to be in alignment here.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: We'll see.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I think the Astros and Cardinals will continue talking. I
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: don't think there's any ill will necessarily from the Astros.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I think they do understand the perspective from Nolan, but
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: if they have to pivot to address their own needs,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: they have to pivot. And that's the risk that Nolan
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: is obviously aware of when he's made his decision. Was
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: he can only control his decision. He can't control the
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: decisions of other teams. So my expectation is that this
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: will take you know, we might go into January, could
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: go down to the wire here. If you had to
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: give me a prediction today on if Nolan Arnaudo is
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: a Saint Louis Cardinal. Come pitchers and catchers or position
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: players report date, what do you say?
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: I say yes, yes, I say yes. I say yes.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: We've seen it in the past. We've seen it. And
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: I mean again, thinking about this and the one that
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: I can think of because I paid a lot of attention,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: you know, back I don't know, twenty years ago, it
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: was Gary Sheffield with the Dodger. He wanted to get
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: out of there, he wanted to get paid, he wanted out.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: It was reported everywhere there was I mean back then
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: there was no Twitter, no x, no nothing, not even
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: my space so high five, but there was interviews where
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: he's I don't want to be here. I want to
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: get paid, and the Dodgers will say, now, well we're
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: not going to pay him. We could trade him. Guess what.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: Opening day he was a Dodger Stadium Opening Day, he
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: was booed Gary Sheffield Opening Day. He hit a home run.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: The minute he hit that home run, everybody forgot about
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: the divorce that never happened. And I'm not saying that's
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: going to happen and signed Lewis. I believe for selfish reasons,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: I want to keep Nolan. I want to see Nolan.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: I want to call Nolan out and now I want
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: to call it the wood Own Place every so often
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: because that makes it fun for us, for broadcasters, for
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: beat writers, and for their fans. But again, I'm not
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: part of the business. I'm not part of what you said,
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: you know, the decision making. But I do think there's
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: a big chance he stays. Then again throughout the season,
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: depending how it happens, how it goes, then perhaps Nolan
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: can be traded in the middle of the season, and
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: that can happen too. I mean, so that's what I think. Again,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: a little selfish and even the policeman outside in the frontment.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: They know this is a very hot topic. That's why
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: they're circling in my house. But now it's okay, it's
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: just Katie Will.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're coming for you. They're like, what'd you say?
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: No, I get the point you're making, and what you know.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I still think that there is time for both sides
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: to get a deal. I also think that there is
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: a chance he comes to Saint Louis next year and
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: stays there. It would be very interesting to see how
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: that plays out. But you know, we still have about
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: seven weeks. I just found out, by the way that
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: the unofficial Pitchers and Catchers Report day is either February
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: tenth or February eleventh, hence the unofficial, And.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: I think that's so early.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: It is early, right, So if all of you baseball
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: sick goes out there, don't worry. I think we're we're
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: starting a little bit earlyer than we usually do. In
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: twenty eight.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: About next next week is almost New Year's now. Then
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: you have a month of January and then ten more
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: days and we're in Jupiter.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Oh no, that.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it could happen. Don't worry. I got you. I'll
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: buy you a nice shaved ice cream or whatever it
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: is in that corner. So it's exciting. I mean, at
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: least we have some to talk about. You know, there's
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: a lot of teams that they're not talking about anything.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: They're not good or bad, they're just quiet. The fans
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: don't even know what's going on. What we know is
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: there's some movement here. And the Cardinals are in the news,
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: for good or bad. I mean, this is not good,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: this is not bad. It's just they're in the news.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: And that's what we want. We want news, we want
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: to be moving, and we want the days. As you
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: know and you put it, I'm excited to go back
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: to Jupiter. But as as dreadful as it might be
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: for some people that, oh my god, it's all ready February,
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: I'm excited. I'm ready for baseball. I mean, I had
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: enough of two months not watching or not looking at
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: MLB baseball. I'm ready. I'm ready for baseball. So I mean,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: I'm excited, and let's see what happens, you know, let's
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: see what the Nolano novela takes us next.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: See, this is your excitement, Like, this is why your
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: calls are so electric, because your excitement just now. You
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: got me a little bit more motivated for spring training.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: So if you've never listened to a Cardinal's Spanish radio broadcast, one,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: what are you doing too?
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: It's fantastic.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: And this is coming from someone who only knows you know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I have to work on this. A few Spanish words,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: most of them inappropriate. And while I have no idea
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: what you are saying or what Benji is saying, most
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: of the time, I can feel the energy in your
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: calls and they're just they're so so good. So hopefully
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: you will have us some fun calls. I'm sure you will.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Maybe about our next guy, our next topic. Let's talk
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Ryan Helsley. And I wanted to bring this up because you,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: in the very beginning of the off season said that
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: you didn't think the Cardinals would or should trade Ryan,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and I said, sir, I politely and respectfully disagree. And
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: this is no knock on Helsley. I know he's a
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: favorite of both of us. You were right, I was wrong.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Does not seem like the Cardinals are going to trade Helsley?
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: And its controversial topic up until this Nolan stuff. It
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: was probably the most controversial thing of the off season.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Tell me, Polo, what is your argument for the Cardinals
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: keeping Helsley.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: When the Cardinals trade for a player, most recently Nolan
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Paul Goldschmidt, they always look for a type of player,
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: right the cardinal way, a player that looks like a cardinal. Well,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: guess what, Ryan Helsley not only looks like a cardinal,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: he was born a cardinal. They drafted the kid. They
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: drafted him. And one thing that I like about about
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Helsley and the Cardinals, they never moved them around like
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: we've seen in the recent years, like you start, you
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: really you start. No, he knew his role and he
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: has embrace that role. He has embraced it and he
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: owns it. He owns the part. He is very polite,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: He is very quiet. He is somebody that I actually
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: look up to the way he works and the way
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: he conducts himself. He always has time for the fans.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: He always when he doesn't have time for the fans
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: or the media, very politely. You know what, guys, I
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: am really sorry right now. It's not a good time
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: if you wait, maybe a halftime later, but don't think
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: that I will talk to you because I'm in a hurry.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: I have to work. I have this interview. I have
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: something that I have to do. The other thing is
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: when we right when the season ended and we go
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: into the off season, there's so many relievers out there available,
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: There's so many closers to this day, a lot of them.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: So why are you gonna trade somebody who other teams
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: can get for cheap? That just say, right? I mean
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: a Chapman he went to the Red Sox for ten
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: million one year's that's that is very good for That's
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: a good bargain. You have a Tenor Scott out there,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: you have Kenley Jensen out there. So if you are
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: the Cardinals, yeah, you might say, guys, we might have
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: healthily available. Again, I don't know what goes on and
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: teams that you know what, do we want to trade
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: a top prospect because that's what you want for Ryan Helsley.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: Do we want to trade a top prospect or two?
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Or do we just want to give out all these
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: Chapman a one year deal for ten million dollars? So
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: when I looked at that, I'm like, it makes no
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: sense for the Cardinals to put him out there and
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: have low ball offers from other teams, And like I said,
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: he is a Cardinal moving forward. That's what we want, right,
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: That's what the Cardinals want. To go back to Cardinals,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: people that came up through the system, people that look
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: the part. And seriously, over the last couple of years,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: especially last season and twenty twenty two when he was
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: in the All Star Game, who has looked more like
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: a Cardinal than Ryan Helsley. And now he is not
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: a young kid anymore. He is not a rookie. He's
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: not somebody who is just starting to pitch. He has
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: experience a lot of experience. He's been up, he's been down,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: and right now I think he is at his peak.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: And if again I don't know what's going on, you
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: don't know what's going on, we might hear things. But
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: if I was the Cardinals, I will sit down and say, hey,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: you're going nowhere for now, why don't we just talk
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: about an extension instead of you moving on? You know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: because his numbers are going up. The fan base loves them,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: and I think that's what you need to keep when
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: when when a player is loved by the fan base
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: and you can keep him, keep him. Yes, I understand
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: he's a reliever, he's a closer, and sometimes people don't
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: like to pay a lot of money for closers. But
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: in this case, I think you can come into to
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: an agreement with Ryan and keep him for the long run,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: if not, well not forever. That's that's what I That's
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: what I feel, and that's why I told you at
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: the beginning, and I know we talked about this before.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: I don't think he's going anywhere, and he shouldn't go anywhere.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: And again, you know, if if I right, the right
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: offer comes, maybe he'll be he'll be elsewhere. But for now,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Eco Hell's bells looks like he's going to be back
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: with the Cardinals next season.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think the perspective the Cardinals when
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: they come out and said, hey, we're going to reset
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: next year and we're going to cut payroll costs. It
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: made sense because after Helsey's fantastic year in twenty four,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's set the MLB record and saves for
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: that year, the MLB franchise or the franchise record, excuse
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: me for saves for the Cardinals like well deserved raise
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: coming and arbitration for Helsley. He absolutely deserves it.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: It was kind of the.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Natural correlation to say, well, if he's going to be
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: due for a major set of arbitration one year before
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: he's a free agent, makes sense for the Cardinals to
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: try to boost his value. But seeing where how slow
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the relief pitching market is, and you know, it's always
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: slow in the off season, but this year in particular,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: feels like especially sluggish.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I can understand.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: And you know, one thing that I think has gotten
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: mixed messaging from John Mozaelock is the Cardinals.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Aren't punting on twenty twenty five. It don't get me wrong.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: This is a very different offseason from seasons prior and
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the you.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Know, ownership's decision to bring payroll down, the Cardinals decision.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: To play the youth, like, that's very frustrating.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: If you're a Cardinals fan. I'm not trying to diminish
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: that you should. You should be angry that you know
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: that it's come to this point. But they are still
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: trying to win with the players that they have. And
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: that is the key phrase for me. The more I
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: hear mos say this, the players that they have, they
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: are trying to win with. Hellsley you can win with
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: and hey, you know what if the Cardinals spiral out
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: and come the trade deadline all of a sudden, you know,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: it looks like they may be moving on and they
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: could still trade Hellsley.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: They can do that.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I wonder if an extension is has been explored. It's
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: really difficult this year to say, because the person making
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: decisions for the twenty twenty five roster will not be
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: making the decisions for twenty twenty six, so it's it's
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: hard to.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: See where what was that right there? It's just it's
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: very interesting. It's like, we know Mo is moving on,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: you know, whatever he's going to do next. Good luck
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: to Mo. I mean, I really like him, and I
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: know you do too. But the next guy come up,
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: not only the next guy, but the next front office.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: What is that they're thinking? And you mentioned it before?
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: What is what are the owners telling the next guy's
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: the next front office, Hey, we can do this. Let's
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: let's flush this this couple of players, and then we
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: can start investing, like we can start looking into things.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: And that makes it very very interesting, along with all
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: the other players that are now though, the Helsley, the
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Fattie that the Steven mattch all those guys that everybody
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: is talking about Oh they might move, they might not
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: move for now, no moves, So we're good.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: We're chilling, Helsy, you're chilling.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: But you know again, you know, from a beat writer
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: of perspective, it's you always try to look at like
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: what makes the most logical sense. From a personal standpoint,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Ryan Helsley has been I call the players I've covered
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: since my first year in twenty one, I call them dogs.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Hellsy's been a dog and a great family.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Wife is amazing, has a second daughter on the way,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: so that's exciting too. Looks like he will stay in
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis. Now let's talk about another.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Guy that you and I both know well.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: He is a friend of yours and he oh, but
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: there we go. Oh, there he is, and he's also
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: a first baseman. Now, Wilson Contraras will be the Cardinals'
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: opening day first baseman come twenty twenty five. He will
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: not be catching those duties will go to Pedro Pa
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: has Anyvonne Herrera.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: This was not something I saw coming.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: However, Wilson did, and when I talked to him earlier
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: in the week, he said, I told you so. So
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: the moral of this episode is I didn't need to
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: start listening to people. What do you know about Wilson?
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: What have you conversations have you had with him? And
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: what do you think about him taking over first base
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: next year?
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: What do I know about Wilson? He loves his dog.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: His dog's name is Ray, his wife Andrea. They're having
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: fun in Florida. And he is a happy, lucky guy.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: That's one thing that I learned from the minute that
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: I met him. Like, as an opponent, you don't like him,
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: right because he's that guy. He he's gonna show up,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: he's gonna tell you how how much better he is
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: than your your team. But then he turns into he
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: comes to the Cardinals, and that's the guy I can,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: I can, I can, I can battle with, I can
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: go behind with. And he's excited. There's a reason why
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: and he and you know there is no breaking news
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: because it's there. And as you know, we hear a
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: lot of things, but we keep the key. That's how
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: we earn the trust of people, right that we don't
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: go a telling everybody what we know or or what
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: we hear whatever. Uh. But back when the season ended,
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: I told him, as hey, am I gonna see you
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: next year? Like I'm not going anywhere. He basically turned
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: into the another of DiCaprio on that Wolf of of
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: uh of uh then yeah, that that Wolf of Wall
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Street or whatever.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I'm leaving.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: So and I felt like, I feel like Jonah Hill,
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: like what and He's like, were not living. So when
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: you have a guy that commits and tells you, I
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: don't want to go anywhere. I want to stay here.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: I want to win here. There's a reason why I
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: wanted to be with the Cardinals. And he knows that
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: it might be a bit of a struggle next season,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: but you just said it. Who knows, you know. One
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: of the one of the things that I always heard
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: from somebody that I admire by the name of Manny Mota,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: uh former, you know, King pinch hitter. Baseball is so
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: weird that the ball is round, it comes inside a
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: square box. That is how weird baseball is. So this
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Cardinal team, I don't think is down for the count.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: I don't think they're taking a year off. I don't
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: think they're looking for a lottery pick for next season.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: I think they're looking to do something and perhaps shock
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: some people. Right, and Wilson Contreres likes that he thinks.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: I think that he thinks he can be a real
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: mentor of young players, a real uh leader in the clubhouse.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: And you see it. I see it. I noticed how
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: the young guys go to that corner. They talked to him,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: They they they listen to him, they follow him. And
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: I believe that's what he likes, you know. He he
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: he saw from the other side when Yadi was here,
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: when Albert was here here the last time. So he
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: wants to be that guy. He wants to be that
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: guy with with Carlo Nation and and and I'm excited.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: I'm excited. I'm happy he's staying. I'm excited. And I'm
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: also excited for the opportunity for Evan Herrera. You know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Ivan Heredra is a guy that we've been waiting for
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: a while to do something. Last season, injuries, you know,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: got took him down. Then Pedro Pipes comes out of
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: nowhere and has a very good season for a rookie
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: that nobody, you know, nobody thought he could do anything.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: So now we have three guys that can catch, because
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: all of them can catch, three guys that can hit.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: And I'm excited for that. I'm excited for for Wilson
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: to try first base. I'm exciting for Wilson to to
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: DH and save his body, perhaps to have a longer career,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: but I am very excited to see what Pedro can do,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: knowing that he is part of that core. Now it's
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: not Pedro going into into a spring training hoping maybe
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: I'll start in Triple A, maybe they'll give me a chance.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Now he knows the chance is there, and Evan the
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: same way. So with Wilson moving opens up opportunities, like
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: we said, at bats for people. And you know, we
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: have Alec Berlison getting at some more at bats, We're
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: gonna have Ivanerera, We're gonna have Pedro Pajez, and I
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: think with the leadership of Wilson Contredras, this team can
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: surprise some people. And I mean, I'm gonna be honest,
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: I miss Champagne on my eyes. So hopefully twenty twenty
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: five ends with Champagne everywhere.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I've covered exactly three playoff games on the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Cardinals beat not one single win yet, so I'm looking
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: across that one off my bucket list at some point.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, maybe it's me whatever Scramento or whatever, not
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Sacramento please with the athletics. I think I like your
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: point about the young guys. Yvon Herrera.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think got necessarily the right instruction coming up
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: through the minor leagues, because how do you get all
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the way to the major leagues and all of a
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: sudden now the organization is aware that, hey, your arm
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: throwing a second is not as strong as it could be. Right,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: So I think that was a reflection not on her era,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: but on an oversight by the player development system, which
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: you know Cardinals are fixing. They say, I like Pedro
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Pajz and I remember he left such a good impression
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: in spring training last year, and I, you know, on
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the final day, I said, hey, I hope to see
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: you at some point next this season, and then he
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: spent pretty much the whole season up in Saint Louis.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I think there are a lot to be exciting with
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: these two guys, and more and more you're seeing teams
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily have a traditional starting catcher, but there there
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: it's a hybrid role based on you know what pitcher
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: that they work best with, you know, how do they
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: hit against the posing picture, What is that team's defense
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: really need that day? I would love to see Ali
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Marmal kind of use both of those guys as a
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: hybrid and then absolutely necessary they have contrarasts, though Mos
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: said that, you know that would be really unlikely that
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: he'd be behind the plate. What I'm most excited to
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: see for Wilson is that bat. That offense last year
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: is pretty anemic. It was not the most thrilling to watch.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: You're seeing You're.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Expecting a lot of bounce back years right from noot Bar,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: from Gorman, from Walker. You know, I like obviously Mason
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: wy and Brendan Donovan. They're pretty consistent. I really like
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Alec Burlsten's back to ball skills, but there wasn't power there.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: And gold Schwan Arnado have taken responsibility for that Contrarasts
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: when healthy was by far their best hitter. By keeping
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: him or moving him to first base, you're essentially hoping
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: to keep him healthy and to have that power bat.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: And like the three holes that you think, that excites me.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you're counting on so many players to
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: hopefully pick it up and turn it around, having someone
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: that you know can supply the offense in your the
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: middle of your order is key. So I'm excited for
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: that element of it. When I talked to Wilson, you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I'm still having a hard time picturing him at first base.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: When I hung up the phone the other day, I said, okay,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I'll see your pictures and catchers and he said.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: No, you won't. And I kind of laughed because I
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: didn't get it and he was.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, I see you. Then he goes,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to be there. I'm not a catcher.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: He was like, oh yeah, yeah, right, you're not.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: He's taking it to heart. It's a catcher anymore. He's like,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: all right, show up with the pitch with the guys.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: But you and I know that he's going to be
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: there earlier year and I now be there working with
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: with with some guys. So it's going to be a
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: very interesting season, and it's gonna be an interesting season
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: for the manager. It's going to be an interesting season
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: for those guys that you mentioned. And then let's see
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: who shows up, because one thing we know with the
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Cardinals over the last few years, there's always somebody. Always
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: somebody's gonna show up, is going to show up. Brandon
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Donovan is going to show up, and Alec Berlison is
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: gonna show up, A large dudebar is gonna show up?
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Who is the next guy? The how they say it?
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Next man up? Who is the next one that's gonna
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: say hey, I want my chance. You know, we have
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: a few names and a few ideas, but let's see,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: you know, let's see, let's see what what what's next?
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Let's see who is the next one say hey, I
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: want my chance? And and like like Brandon Donovan, like
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Alec Burlison, like Pedro Paez, earn it and keep it.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: And that's what excites me. Yeah, we we want to
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: see we want to have a team filled with superstars
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: and everybody, oh my guy going crazy and and we're
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: World Series or bust. But I also want to see
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: the young guys. Give give the young guys a chance
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: to to to prove themselves and to earn the birds
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: on the bat. So I'm excited for the season. I
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: mean I'm always excited, but but it's every every year
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: is different, and next year I think it's gonna be
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: the most different we have seen. Katie wool and.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to spend next season with you.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I cannot wait for us to get back to Buffalo
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Wild Wings and Ted Drew's after Sunday Day Games, a
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: tradition onlike any other, and of Bianca your daughter, if
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: you're listening, hey girl, we miss you too well. I
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: mean you see her every day. I miss her and
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: hopefully she'll join us there too. This was the second
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: episode of card Territory. You can follow us on Twitter
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: at card Territory Original. I know you can like and
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: subscribe to our page on YouTube, find us on.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I'm Katie Wu. He's Polo Cencio. This was so much fun, Polo.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us again.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Katie, Let's do it again again. Thank you for the invite.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Best to luck, to you and to everybody working with
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: you and this this was a good decision. This was
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: a good decision, and hopefully this is the first of many,
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: many times that I get to join you.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I'm already booking you as a reoccurring guest, so get ready,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: all right, Polo, thanks for joining me.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Trevor Rosenthal is back with us on Tuesday. We will
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: talk to you then. This is Cardinal Territory.