Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Managing Autoimmune Disorders and Chronic Illness Naturally (Heather Gray) | Ep 277

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Managing Autoimmune Disorders and Chronic Illness Naturally (Heather Gray) | Ep 277 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: If you're battling chronic illnesses like Lyme disease or autoimmune conditions like celiac, hashimoto's or endometriosis, and traditional treatments aren't giving you the relief you need, this episode is for you.
• 0:13
  Philip Pape: Today, I'm discussing natural approaches to managing these complex conditions with someone who's lived it firsthand.
• 0:19
  Philip Pape: You'll discover why conventional testing often misses these telltale biomarkers, how stress and mindset affect your symptoms more than you think, and practical strategies that can help you take control of your health.
• 0:32
  Philip Pape: Whether you're newly diagnosed or have been fighting symptoms for years, today's conversation will give you a new perspective on managing chronic illness naturally illness naturally.
• 0:52
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the podcast that blends evidence and engineering to help you build smart, efficient systems to achieve your dream physique.
• 0:56
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today I've invited on Heather Gray to discuss natural approaches to managing chronic illness and autoimmune conditions.
• 1:04
  Philip Pape: After spending three decades navigating multiple diagnoses, including Lyme disease, celiac disease, hashimoto's and endometriosis, heather now helps others as a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner.
• 1:17
  Philip Pape: Today, you're going to learn how to advocate for proper testing, understand the mind-body connection in chronic illness and, as always, practical strategies for managing symptoms naturally through your lifestyle.
• 1:29
  Philip Pape: Heather, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 1:32
  Heather Gray: Thanks for having me.
• 1:33
  Philip Pape: So I brought you on here because we want to talk about something a lot of people struggle with and probably a lot of people silently struggle with, and that is a number of known issues, from Hashimoto's or symptoms that go unexplained or undiagnosed.
• 1:47
  Philip Pape: And then combine that with what I'll say is inconsistent expertise in the medical field.
• 1:52
  Philip Pape: Let's be honest, a bit of gaslighting too, right?
• 1:56
  Philip Pape: A bit.
• 1:57
  Philip Pape: A bit yes, and I know you're the comedian, so you can take that where you want and then like a pharmaceutical heavy approach, right, that's the other piece.
• 2:05
  Philip Pape: So sometimes for people maybe it seems hopeless or like they have no clue where to go.
• 2:10
  Philip Pape: And so somebody listening or watching right now who wants to be inspired, they need a little bit of help.
• 2:16
  Philip Pape: They're like how do I even get started?
• 2:18
  Philip Pape: What's the thing that they're missing that could make the biggest difference, like for their next step in managing or reversing these conditions.
• 2:26
  Heather Gray: There's a lot of big questions in there.
• 2:27
  Heather Gray: Yes, when do I start with which one do I feel back?
• 2:32
  Heather Gray: You know, no, gaslit, I, that is actually.
• 2:34
  Heather Gray: I talk about that in my standup.
• 2:36
  Heather Gray: I talk about being gaslit basically my whole life.
• 2:40
  Heather Gray: And they say that women are like twice.
• 2:44
  Heather Gray: As you know, it takes twice as long for them to get a diagnosis, a proper diagnosis, over a male, because it's still that type of gaslighting and women are just hysterical and it's just our hormones and our hormones get blamed for everything.
• 2:59
  Heather Gray: It's insane.
• 3:00
  Heather Gray: I am a big fan of not focusing on treatment, right Like I'm going to die on that hill.
• 3:05
  Heather Gray: Stop focusing on treatment Because once you dial in lifestyle, mindset, diet, exercise, proper exercise, health period, end of story.
• 3:17
  Heather Gray: Between the artificial lights, the EMFs, the toxins in our environment, in our food, in our water, the fast pace, the constant fight or flight, we're stuck in.
• 3:33
  Heather Gray: It's a hot mess and I mean, as you read off the laundry list of diagnoses that I have, I'm a walking talking model, proof of all these toxins, all these issues and what can happen once you start cleaning things up.
• 3:52
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and we were joking about broken water heaters before we started recording and how we you and I business owners we're stressed we were trying to juggle super busy schedules and there's sensory overload.
• 4:04
  Philip Pape: I do like your what you just said stop focusing on treatment because lifestyle could be the solution, or at least it'll get you a lot of the way there.
• 4:12
  Philip Pape: Right Like sometimes when we talk about hormone replacement and someone says, should I do that or should I do lifestyle?
• 4:17
  Philip Pape: I'm like well, do the lifestyle.
• 4:18
  Philip Pape: You may need the hormone replace, I don't know, but always do the lifestyle, like go train and go be active and eat the right way.
• 4:25
  Heather Gray: Do not pass.
• 4:25
  Heather Gray: Go, do not collect $200.
• 4:27
  Heather Gray: Do it anyway, this is where you start because even if you get on hormone replacement therapy, you might need less right Like, because you're starting to get things moving.
• 4:37
  Heather Gray: The way.
• 4:37
  Heather Gray: Our bodies are just so brilliantly made that once we get out of the way, give it what it needs.
• 4:43
  Heather Gray: It's amazing.
• 4:44
  Heather Gray: It's amazing what it can do.
• 4:45
  Heather Gray: It's, I mean, absolutely no short of a miracle.
• 4:49
  Heather Gray: Like I said, the stuff that I have dealt with in my life, the things that I have overcome you know two suicide attempts.
• 4:54
  Heather Gray: You know horrific pain being a hundred pounds overweight.
• 4:58
  Heather Gray: You know not digesting anything, psychosis from mold, like you name it I have been through it.
• 5:05
  Heather Gray: And the fact that I now shoot.
• 5:07
  Heather Gray: I run two podcasts.
• 5:09
  Heather Gray: I have my practice.
• 5:10
  Heather Gray: I just got hired in a very prominent cancer doctor's practice to be her head coach.
• 5:15
  Heather Gray: I do standup comedy.
• 5:17
  Heather Gray: I travel.
• 5:18
  Heather Gray: Like my life is not for the faint of heart and it wouldn't be this way if I didn't dial in these lifestyle tweaks and continue to keep some sort of a maintenance going.
• 5:29
  Heather Gray: Like sleep is my religion.
• 5:31
  Heather Gray: You know I make sure I detox every week, like there's certain non-negotiables that I have, because if I don't, I'm a little on the different side.
• 5:39
  Heather Gray: I'm the canary in the coal mine.
• 5:40
  Heather Gray: I, you know I've gotten some.
• 5:41
  Heather Gray: Really I got.
• 5:42
  Heather Gray: I got dealt some pretty shitty hands with genetics and not detoxing properly.
• 5:46
  Heather Gray: I don't make vitamin D, store it, transport it properly, you know.
• 5:50
  Heather Gray: So it was fun to see these kind of weaknesses within my genes.
• 5:55
  Heather Gray: But, as you know or hopefully you know, I think you know.
• 5:58
  Heather Gray: You know what's in our genes is not the be all end.
• 6:01
  Heather Gray: All you know there's got something called epigenetics, which is our lifestyle and toxins and that sort of thing on what, how the genes get expressed.
• 6:08
  Heather Gray: So there's so many people that are like, oh my God, I have the BRCA gene.
• 6:12
  Heather Gray: You know I'm down to get cancer and they start to cut off their breasts and I'm like, no, no, no, no.
• 6:17
  Heather Gray: You know, that's why I work for this cancer doctor.
• 6:20
  Heather Gray: I work for us because she is totally in alignment with let's clean up all this stuff first before we ever stop about chemo and mastectomies and all that stuff.
• 6:31
  Heather Gray: And it is incredible.
• 6:32
  Heather Gray: I'm just so impressed with what she's doing as a doctor because she was surgical, you know, medically trained, but then went back to school, learned the functional way and what we're seeing the results with her clients are absolutely amazing.
• 6:45
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 6:46
  Philip Pape: So you mentioned a few things that people are thinking of like okay, you had all these different symptoms.
• 6:50
  Philip Pape: You also have an environment that's not made for humans you mentioned you know we have genetics.
• 6:55
  Philip Pape: Whether we blame our genetics or not, they're there but they're not.
• 6:58
  Philip Pape: You know they're the noise in the signal oftentimes.
• 7:01
  Philip Pape: But at the same time, you did have some things that were unique for you, like the vitamin D deficiency.
• 7:07
  Philip Pape: So a woman listening or somebody who's facing what they can't diagnose, it's chronic fatigue.
• 7:12
  Philip Pape: I know a friend who has chronic fatigue.
• 7:14
  Philip Pape: He's dealt with for years and it's fibromyalgia or one of those areas where it's kind of mysterious.
• 7:18
  Philip Pape: What were the early signs you had and when did you decide that you needed to look into this, not just address the lifestyle?
• 7:25
  Philip Pape: But I imagine there's other things you have to do to pinpoint what it is for you right, what the issue is for you.
• 7:31
  Heather Gray: Well, absolutely, and I love saying, no matter how common a symptom may be, it is never normal, right?
• 7:35
  Heather Gray: It's always your body's check engine light coming on saying, hey, dummy, there's something going on in here.
• 7:39
  Heather Gray: And all too often we've been brainwashed, you know, to reach for over the counter medications, right, which is just puts a bandaid over that check engine light and then our body just keeps screaming louder and louder and louder until we have an autoimmune disease or we have cancer or we have, you know, something bigger and scarier.
• 7:57
  Heather Gray: But it started with me, like I always start off.
• 8:00
  Heather Gray: I was four years old.
• 8:00
  Heather Gray: I was basically born full of shit, like you know how many people can relate to being constipated as a little kid.
• 8:06
  Heather Gray: And that started my let's throw band-aids at symptoms, you know model with thick, nasty oils, laxatives, but nobody was asking why this four year old couldn't poop hindsight's 2020.
• 8:19
  Heather Gray: That was the.
• 8:19
  Heather Gray: Did you have a lot of prune juice back then?
• 8:21
  Heather Gray: I don't remember.
• 8:22
  Heather Gray: Okay, yeah, I don't remember.
• 8:25
  Heather Gray: I doubt it.
• 8:25
  Heather Gray: I doubt it.
• 8:26
  Heather Gray: I was eating a standard American diet.
• 8:28
  Heather Gray: Yeah, I was being raised by alcoholic addicts very young alcoholic addicts and my uncle had just committed suicide.
• 8:34
  Heather Gray: So there was a lot of early childhood trauma that, I think, churned on my celiac disease.
• 8:41
  Heather Gray: I said I was eating the standard American or the sad diet and it's kind of what started me to be the perfect storm.
• 8:48
  Heather Gray: And so that's the one thing that I love teaching people is, even with Lyme disease, they're like I got bit by a chick and I got sick.
• 8:53
  Heather Gray: No, actually you've been becoming the perfect host for probably one year, five years, 15 years, before you ever got to the place where Lyme disease could take over.
• 9:05
  Heather Gray: Same thing with cancer.
• 9:07
  Heather Gray: I just got cancer.
• 9:08
  Heather Gray: It's in my history.
• 9:09
  Heather Gray: No, I hate to tell you.
• 9:11
  Heather Gray: It's probably been a lifetime full of stress and toxins and bad diet.
• 9:15
  Heather Gray: And now you're quote unquote again the perfect host, right?
• 9:18
  Heather Gray: So I was living in some moldy environments when I was a kid like I said, a lot of trauma and when I was 13 and got bit by a tick, I was the perfect host.
• 9:27
  Heather Gray: So I got diagnosed two years.
• 9:30
  Heather Gray: No, I didn't get diagnosed two years.
• 9:32
  Heather Gray: I started showing symptoms two years later with my first suicide attempt.
• 9:35
  Heather Gray: That was the first of two or three in the psych ward.
• 9:39
  Heather Gray: So much fun.
• 9:40
  Heather Gray: I just need to write a book about my experience in the psych ward, because this was before they actually separated and had different wings for young adults.
• 9:48
  Heather Gray: So I was 15 in with adults and some of the stories I could tell you it was just ugh but anywho.
• 9:56
  Heather Gray: So yeah, hindsight's 20-20.
• 9:58
  Heather Gray: You know, 27 years later I'm 34 and I finally get diagnosed.
• 10:04
  Heather Gray: You know, I had been to probably 30 or 40 different practitioners and if that's the one thing I can tell people is like, listen to your intuition If you know something's up.
• 10:12
  Heather Gray: But you keep going to practitioner to practitioner and they say your labs look normal and they don't find anything wrong with you.
• 10:18
  Heather Gray: Next, keep looking.
• 10:20
  Heather Gray: And typically I found that functional practitioners have a tendency to look a little bit deeper, more root cause.
• 10:28
  Heather Gray: Their lab ranges are different.
• 10:30
  Heather Gray: So, like for vitamin D, you know people are like what's functional medicine compared to regular medicine?
• 10:34
  Heather Gray: Vitamin D, the Western model is looking for disease period, that's it.
• 10:40
  Philip Pape: Based on the population, too Right, and it's a sick population right.
• 10:43
  Heather Gray: Yes, it's going to skew that bell curve.
• 10:46
  Heather Gray: So, like for me, my vitamin D was in the 30s.
• 10:50
  Heather Gray: Well, according to Western med, 30 to 80 is optimal and it's not In functional med.
• 10:56
  Heather Gray: We want it to be 60 to 80.
• 10:57
  Heather Gray: You know, that means that you're actually performing properly, right and that you're functioning, not just close to flatlining and a disease.
• 11:07
  Heather Gray: So it was after I, on a podcast, I heard the founder of FDN, reed Davis.
• 11:14
  Heather Gray: He was with Sean Croxton who wrote the book Underground Wellness.
• 11:17
  Heather Gray: He used to have a pretty popular podcast and he was talking about how you got to.
• 11:21
  Heather Gray: You know, make sure the hormones are balanced and that your gut is healed.
• 11:25
  Heather Gray: And you got to detox.
• 11:26
  Heather Gray: I was a silly hairstylist at the time, I didn't have a background in medicine.
• 11:30
  Heather Gray: Intuitively something hit and I was like that's it, that's how I'm going to get better.
• 11:35
  Heather Gray: And so very, very sick, with a young kid and my own business going through this course.
• 11:41
  Heather Gray: You know, just a Hail Mary, hoping that we were going to find answers.
• 11:45
  Heather Gray: And that was the start of my journey.
• 11:47
  Heather Gray: That was back in 2013.
• 11:49
  Philip Pape: Yeah, obviously a lot of tough, tough situations to get through that that you dealt with.
• 11:54
  Philip Pape: That created what you said, that environment for being the perfect host, which, just so I understand that phrase, this is a combination of the environment we're in as well as our behaviors and genetics.
• 12:04
  Philip Pape: Like, what do you mean by that the perfect host?
• 12:06
  Philip Pape: Can you explain it a little further?
• 12:08
  Heather Gray: All of the above, anything that lowers your immune system and allows critters to overcome your good guys, the stuff that we do.
• 12:18
  Heather Gray: So birth control, antibiotics, other prescription medications lead to a leaky gut.
• 12:24
  Heather Gray: So if you've got a leaky gut, then we've got a compromised immune system.
• 12:27
  Heather Gray: The stress causes a leaky gut.
• 12:29
  Heather Gray: We have a compromised immune system.
• 12:31
  Heather Gray: Now.
• 12:31
  Heather Gray: You're not getting enough sleep.
• 12:32
  Heather Gray: I was living in a moldy home, so all these things stacked up against my immune system, making me vulnerable, making me more susceptible to these things.
• 12:42
  Heather Gray: So that's what I mean about the perfect host.
• 12:44
  Philip Pape: Good, yeah, what do people understand?
• 12:46
  Philip Pape: Because, yeah, and gut health I know you briefly alluded to that.
• 12:48
  Philip Pape: We're learning so much more now about the microbiome and its impact on everything.
• 12:52
  Philip Pape: It's even like the second brain of your body, right?
• 12:55
  Philip Pape: You said, listen to your intuition, and that kind of hits on the gaslighting thing a bit from the other end, because we all know multiple people in our lives and ourselves included.
• 13:05
  Philip Pape: I mean my own wife and friends and family and grandparents and parents.
• 13:09
  Philip Pape: Everybody's been affected by this where they go to the doctor, they get some sort of half-assed treatment and then it doesn't work.
• 13:16
  Philip Pape: They go again.
• 13:17
  Philip Pape: They either get another treatment or they're told well, you just got to deal with it, or it'll go away, or you know what I mean, or or or.
• 13:23
  Philip Pape: There's so many inadequate answers and the idea that if you don't have the answer, you've got to keep going.
• 13:30
  Philip Pape: You've got to be persistent, be in control of your health.
• 13:32
  Philip Pape: I mean I have a personal, just a quick little, almost silly story of I was taking a inhaler, I was breathing it in for an esophageal issue and after about a year of it, my voice started to go hoarse and as a podcaster, this is not great.
• 13:45
  Philip Pape: My voice started to go hoarse, starts out like a smoker yeah right, I Googled it which in the past you'd say that's dangerous.
• 13:52
  Philip Pape: Nowadays I'm like I'm okay if you want to start with Google, because you might get some surprising things that come up.
• 13:57
  Heather Gray: Start with ChatGTP over Google.
• 13:59
  Philip Pape: There you go Nowadays, yeah, and it said steroid-induced hoarseness.
• 14:03
  Philip Pape: I'm like, well, that sounds exactly what it is.
• 14:05
  Philip Pape: So, guess what?
• 14:05
  Philip Pape: I took it to the doctor and he's like, no, that's not a thing, oh really.
• 14:09
  Philip Pape: So then I went to a different doctor no, no, that's not a thing.
• 14:13
  Philip Pape: And so I experimented, I Every time I did, guess what?
• 14:27
  Philip Pape: The hoarseness went away, and then it came back.
• 14:28
  Philip Pape: And finally the doctor admitted he learned something from this through his arrogance.
• 14:30
  Philip Pape: And so that's my personal.
• 14:31
  Philip Pape: I get angry at it and I'm not going to say silly, but it was minor for me, but it's a lot more major for a lot of people, depending on what issue they're dealing with, right?
• 14:37
  Heather Gray: Oh my God, my kid was diagnosed with celiac disease two months after his second birthday.
• 14:42
  Heather Gray: His belly had been so distended for so long, the muscles actually separated like a pregnant person.
• 14:48
  Heather Gray: He you could count his ribs skinny little arms with this great big distended belly.
• 14:53
  Heather Gray: And I remember seeing the hospital's dietician for the first time and I educated her on the celiac diet, like they were.
• 15:04
  Heather Gray: I felt like I should bill her.
• 15:06
  Heather Gray: It was so insane.
• 15:07
  Heather Gray: What year was this?
• 15:08
  Heather Gray: What like this was back in 2012, 2011, because everyone knows about celiac disease.
• 15:15
  Philip Pape: Now you would think, no, this is, this was right yeah, edge, and I was just like oh my god.
• 15:20
  Heather Gray: But even then they don't know like it's.
• 15:22
  Heather Gray: One of the biggest misnomers with celiac is that there's all the gluten-free quote-unquote grains.
• 15:28
  Heather Gray: A lot of them cross, react like wheat.
• 15:30
  Heather Gray: So you know corn, rice and they've even got their own form of gluten.
• 15:35
  Heather Gray: You know it's crazy.
• 15:37
  Heather Gray: And oats, you know.
• 15:37
  Heather Gray: So I tell people with celiac it's still because they'll feel better for so I tell people with celiac it's still cause they'll feel better for a while and then they stop and then they usually go backwards again and they don't know why.
• 15:46
  Heather Gray: I've seen it with myself, I saw it with my kid, I've seen it with my patients.
• 15:49
  Heather Gray: So I'm like, if you really want to get better from celiac you know, kind of heal and be more robust, you need to go grain free, because grains, those things are just you know all the gluten-free and a lot of times they're swapping out just regular processed crap for gluten-free processed crap.
• 16:04
  Philip Pape: Oh sure, sure, like the classic vegan diet I do, I kind of joke about it.
• 16:08
  Philip Pape: It's like all processed foods.
• 16:11
  Philip Pape: Oh, so if we take that celiac example cause there are so many, if someone suspects they have it, or like people are thinking okay, I have symptoms, I have no idea what it is, when do I start?
• 16:21
  Philip Pape: And then there's also I have symptoms.
• 16:23
  Philip Pape: I think it could be this what do I do?
• 16:25
  Philip Pape: Maybe those are two different scenarios, but let's start with the celiac one.
• 16:29
  Philip Pape: People are confused.
• 16:30
  Philip Pape: Do they get food and allergy testing?
• 16:32
  Philip Pape: Do they get blood work?
• 16:33
  Philip Pape: Do they have to go to a special doctor, special FDN, Like you know what I mean.
• 16:36
  Philip Pape: It's overwhelming.
• 16:37
  Heather Gray: It's a good point, you know, and a lot of times the testing that a regular doctor will do is not going to unearth what you're looking for, unfortunately.
• 16:47
  Heather Gray: So, like with Lyme disease, they will still use a Western blot, and Western blot is good if you can catch it, like within the first six months.
• 16:55
  Heather Gray: Outside of that, it's crap because it's looking for an immune response and a lot of times Lyme has shut down that immune response and there's a couple like bands missing because of some controversial crap that goes on with our FDA, and so you're not going to get a real good answer from a traditional doctor's Western blot, unfortunately.
• 17:17
  Heather Gray: So you know, I like starting people off with these intake forms.
• 17:22
  Heather Gray: I have two intake forms, all together about 500 questions Like it'll take you a good hour to fill out, but it is really awesome at helping tease out.
• 17:31
  Heather Gray: You know, is it gut issues?
• 17:32
  Heather Gray: Is it Lyme?
• 17:32
  Heather Gray: Is it autoimmune?
• 17:33
  Heather Gray: Is it heavy metals?
• 17:35
  Heather Gray: You know, looking at the lifestyle back when I first, unfortunately, when they train FDNs and a lot of functional doctors, they just want to like $5,000 worth of labs right off the bat.
• 17:46
  Heather Gray: I found out very quickly that not everybody could afford $5,000 of the labs and then another $5,000 worth of, you know, quote, unquote treatment or, you know, supplement support, that type of thing.
• 17:57
  Heather Gray: So I really got great at case management and looking at the history and looking at you know, all these different puzzle pieces.
• 18:05
  Heather Gray: That kind of helped me put it together.
• 18:06
  Heather Gray: And then if I felt like further testing needed to be done, I'd be like I maybe want you to do this stool sample or maybe I want you to do this genetic test because I want to see if you've got the genes for celiac or you know, it just kind of depends.
• 18:20
  Heather Gray: But really starting with that case history and extreme intake form I think is a really great place to start, Because if you, you know, if you got somebody who's just wanting to throw either a thousand dollars with the supplements at you right off the bat or $6,000 with a lab test right off the bat, you know might want to run yes.
• 18:39
  Philip Pape: Yes, no, I've seen it in some of the.
• 18:40
  Philip Pape: There's a lot of new precision medicine companies that have, just you know, popped up out of nowhere.
• 18:44
  Philip Pape: You got to be careful, because their end game may be affiliate sales from supplements.
• 18:48
  Philip Pape: Right, you got to watch out.
• 18:50
  Philip Pape: So I like what you said, though, because when I think of like in my nutrition coaching practice, how it's very personalized, you really have to understand the whole person and how everything interacts and the whole system of like their history.
• 19:00
  Philip Pape: What is in that kind of assessment in generally?
• 19:03
  Philip Pape: Are there any symptoms that you asked for there?
• 19:05
  Philip Pape: Is it their physical, like movement history as well as their medical history?
• 19:10
  Philip Pape: I'm just curious what kind of lifestyle things are in there?
• 19:12
  Philip Pape: Everything it's 500 questions.
• 19:15
  Heather Gray: All the above.
• 19:17
  Heather Gray: I want to know if you got mercury in your mouth or if you had a root canal, because if so, you might be susceptible to cavitations, which are one of the biggest barriers to health.
• 19:27
  Heather Gray: I need to know if you've had a mold exposure.
• 19:30
  Heather Gray: Have you been tested for sleep apnea?
• 19:32
  Heather Gray: What's your trauma like?
• 19:34
  Heather Gray: Because nine times out of 10, even with cancer these cancer diagnoses if you look back one to a year and a half before their cancer diagnosis something happened.
• 19:45
  Heather Gray: It's insane.
• 19:46
  Heather Gray: Every single time something happened Lyme disease, like I said, talked with my, you know, but a lot of people haven't put the pieces together.
• 19:55
  Heather Gray: So one of the first things I started asking for is okay, so you get diagnosed in 2021.
• 20:02
  Heather Gray: That's pretty common these days.
• 20:04
  Heather Gray: Things are starting to happen in 2021, 2022.
• 20:06
  Heather Gray: What happened before that?
• 20:08
  Heather Gray: Covid stressed everybody else out, whether they got vaccinated or not vaccinated.
• 20:12
  Heather Gray: That's a whole, nother freaking set of can of worms, but digging into the mental, emotional and the stress part of their life as well, because that's the other thing that a lot of doctors aren't talking about, and sometimes those are the biggest wins.
• 20:26
  Heather Gray: I had a guy that worked with me for over a year and I thought he knew my methodology by that time, but he didn't.
• 20:33
  Heather Gray: I'm still really stressed out and anxious.
• 20:34
  Heather Gray: Can you give me another supplement?
• 20:36
  Heather Gray: I said did you do your grounding exercise today?
• 20:39
  Heather Gray: Get your feet out on the ground for 20 minutes today no.
• 20:42
  Heather Gray: Have you gotten sun on your eyes today?
• 20:45
  Heather Gray: No.
• 20:45
  Heather Gray: Have you taken a 20 minute walk today?
• 20:47
  Heather Gray: No.
• 20:47
  Heather Gray: Have you done your meditation today?
• 20:49
  Heather Gray: No.
• 20:49
  Heather Gray: Have you done your journaling today?
• 20:50
  Heather Gray: No.
• 20:50
  Heather Gray: Have you done your breath work today?
• 20:52
  Heather Gray: No, I'm not giving you any more supplements, like until you learn how to move your nervous system out of fight or flight and into rest or digest all these pills.
• 21:04
  Heather Gray: Even though they might be healthier than their alternatives, it's still just a supplement.
• 21:10
  Heather Gray: That's what supplements are for.
• 21:11
  Heather Gray: They're supplements.
• 21:12
  Heather Gray: They're not supposed to be the be all, end all.
• 21:15
  Philip Pape: Well, a hundred percent People want to shortcut and make excuses.
• 21:17
  Philip Pape: I love that, so would you.
• 21:19
  Philip Pape: Then, is your approach to the level where you start with lifestyle on day one, or do you still want to do some sort of parallel assessment and start with lifestyle?
• 21:30
  Philip Pape: What does that process look like?
• 21:32
  Heather Gray: It depends on the person.
• 21:33
  Heather Gray: Everyone is so different and I found that the Lyme patients and a lot of the cancer patients are a lot more sophisticated than other patients out there because they've had to be their own health advocate for so long, especially Lyme.
• 21:47
  Heather Gray: Frigging chronic Lyme just got accepted as a diagnosis two years ago Wow.
• 21:52
  Heather Gray: Okay, the frigging disease that haunted my Lyme.
• 21:54
  Philip Pape: I live in Connecticut, by the way, and I've heard about Lyme for years, so yeah, it's funny.
• 22:00
  Heather Gray: The thing that has haunted me for decades just got recognized by the CDC is a real diagnosis chronic Lyme, like.
• 22:06
  Heather Gray: Wrap your brain around that one.
• 22:07
  Heather Gray: So we've had to become our own health advocate, we had to become our own health detective, and so it just depends on where a person's at.
• 22:15
  Heather Gray: But I really I try to do parallel, like I'll start maybe working with them on food stuff At the same time I'm working on them with mindset stuff.
• 22:22
  Heather Gray: You know, it's so funny.
• 22:24
  Heather Gray: So when I was, you know, getting into the functional practitioner, I was really great at doing the physical stuff right Diet, no problem, in bed by 10.
• 22:32
  Heather Gray: Okay, coffee enema, sure, no problem.
• 22:34
  Heather Gray: And then I would get better and I'd relapse.
• 22:37
  Heather Gray: And then I would get better again and then I'd relapse.
• 22:39
  Heather Gray: And the book the Body Keeps Score came across my desk and if you haven't read it it's a really tough read, especially if you have any kind of trauma, sexual trauma, and I'm on the couch like ugly crying and my ex-husband's like what the fuck are you reading?
• 22:56
  Heather Gray: And I'm like this little girl and her dad and he's like no, no, no, I don't want to hear it.
• 22:59
  Heather Gray: But it was the first time that it was really explained to me how these traumas get stuck in your nervous system and keep you in fight or flight.
• 23:07
  Heather Gray: Right, and it can be big T traumas, little T traumas, but either way they get stuck in your system and we're not meant to be running from a tiger 24 seven, and that's part of the reason why I kept relapsing.
• 23:19
  Heather Gray: And so once I started moving the needle on my nervous system somatic experiencing work, breath work, tapping, cold plunges, plant medicine completely changed my life total different ballgame.
• 23:34
  Heather Gray: So then I finally I mean I haven't had a relapse of Lyme in five years.
• 23:39
  Heather Gray: I haven't had an autoimmune flare, I've had nothing.
• 23:42
  Heather Gray: I just I have whatever I get right.
• 23:44
  Heather Gray: When I got the flu, it's the flu.
• 23:47
  Heather Gray: When I got a cold, I got the cold, but I don't get any of these other like quote unquote flares, which breaks my heart because so many people think that that's also just kind of normal autoimmune flare.
• 23:56
  Heather Gray: Oh, I'm having a lung flare and I'm like you don't have to have that Right.
• 24:10
  Philip Pape: You hear that like, especially like with GI issues a lot.
• 24:11
  Philip Pape: I hear that like the diverticulitis, ibs and all that, like the flare ups, and you're saying, because you know people are skeptical, obviously, of a lot of this stuff listening and we're not talking about that you're curing these things but you're helping manage or put them into remission or avoid, like you said, flare ups with the lifestyle changes and it comes down to stress and the sympathetic versus parasympathetic state that we're in.
• 24:27
  Philip Pape: So I do love that, because we talk about stress a lot as being just one of those massive pillars and it ties into your sleep and your sleep quality.
• 24:35
  Philip Pape: And we talk a lot about strength training.
• 24:36
  Philip Pape: I'm curious about your thoughts on just on lifting weights and strength training and resistance training in the context of all of this.
• 24:42
  Heather Gray: It's the bestest thing in the whole wide world.
• 24:44
  Heather Gray: Like you have to continue to lift weights, and especially anybody over 40.
• 24:50
  Heather Gray: Like if you're wanting to keep your structure, your balance, like any kind of a good lifestyle as we age, we have got to keep our bones and our muscles strong.
• 24:59
  Heather Gray: I you know.
• 25:00
  Heather Gray: Cardio over cardio, I think, is absolutely destroying people.
• 25:03
  Philip Pape: Yeah, over cardio, yep think is absolutely destroying people.
• 25:06
  Heather Gray: Yeah, over cardio.
• 25:06
  Heather Gray: Yep, I'm not a fan and I found out in my genetics I have thin veins, thin walls in my veins, which means that if I do cardio for very long, much longer than like 30 minutes, it actually causes inflammation.
• 25:18
  Heather Gray: It causes more stress in my body than it's worse.
• 25:20
  Heather Gray: So I have a diminishing return of investment if I overwork out with cardio.
• 25:25
  Heather Gray: But weights, I love weights.
• 25:26
  Heather Gray: I love pushing something heavy.
• 25:27
  Heather Gray: I just got back into it again.
• 25:28
  Heather Gray: I don't know why I got out.
• 25:29
  Heather Gray: I say that every single time.
• 25:31
  Heather Gray: I'm like oh, I feel great, why did I ever stop?
• 25:34
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, I just wanted to hear your thoughts on that with regards to the nervous system and stress too, because people it's underrated, it's like an underrated form of and because people it's underrated.
• 25:45
  Philip Pape: It's like an underrated form of and you also mentioned menopause, and you know we're learning more and more how, because of the hormone changes, right, your muscle mass loss accelerates at that age.
• 25:53
  Philip Pape: If you're not doing anything to hold on to it and because you tend to eat the same amount of food, you know your body fat goes up and then your metabolism goes down and it all just spirals.
• 26:01
  Philip Pape: Okay, so I know we're going on little tangents here.
• 26:06
  Heather Gray: No, I love tangents.
• 26:07
  Heather Gray: It's great, it's great.
• 26:09
  Tony: Yeah, I guess.
• 26:10
  Philip Pape: I know if I'm thinking of what the listener is asking.
• 26:12
  Philip Pape: They're probably wondering there's all these protocols and all these treatments, and when you talk about lifestyle and you hear something like cold plunges again I know what people are thinking.
• 26:21
  Philip Pape: Are there 30 things I have to do every day just to be healthy?
• 26:24
  Philip Pape: And I know that's.
• 26:25
  Philip Pape: You know, do I have to do grounding and cold punches, this and that?
• 26:27
  Philip Pape: And sometimes I skeptically poopoo on those things when I'm like are you even lifting weights and walking and eating right, like I think there's a hierarchy.
• 26:36
  Philip Pape: What are your thoughts on that?
• 26:38
  Heather Gray: Oh, absolutely.
• 26:39
  Heather Gray: I just got done doing an interview talking about how I love biohacking, because all the tools you know right now I've got I've got a.
• 26:47
  Heather Gray: This thing generates frequencies through a red light.
• 26:51
  Heather Gray: This is a tracking ring.
• 26:52
  Heather Gray: This is an EMF blanket.
• 26:54
  Heather Gray: This is like I've got like 10 biohacking tools around me at any given time.
• 26:58
  Heather Gray: But that's because I told you I was kind of dealt a shitty hand when it came to my genetics and I have to work a little harder, but it's never, never, never.
• 27:09
  Heather Gray: In place of lifestyle, lifestyle stuff always comes first For me.
• 27:13
  Heather Gray: When I was in, when people are in the thick of healing yes, sometimes it can be.
• 27:18
  Heather Gray: I say all the time sometimes my self-care feels like a part-time job, but it's better being full-time sick and it's all how you frame it.
• 27:27
  Heather Gray: It saves time, money and years down the line, yep absolutely.
• 27:32
  Tony: It's not I have to, it's I get to right, it's a lack of self-care for your future self.
• 27:37
  Tony: Yeah absolutely.
• 27:39
  Heather Gray: It's a huge act of love.
• 27:40
  Heather Gray: So, yeah, it just it's doing that.
• 27:44
  Heather Gray: But now, you know, now I sauna every day, I do ground every day, I do meditate every day, so there's certain things and I try to have it stack when I can.
• 27:54
  Heather Gray: You know, I only do coffee enemas once a week now.
• 27:57
  Heather Gray: They used to be more because, like I said, I was born full of shit.
• 28:02
  Heather Gray: That constipation never really changed much.
• 28:04
  Heather Gray: So that's one of those things that I do to keep myself running in that, and this is a very toxic world, you know.
• 28:10
  Heather Gray: So, yeah, there was a documentary out there, I guess, where this guy was like a billionaire doing all these biohacks and like he literally had no time to live because he was doing so many that's extreme it's like about living a long life.
• 28:25
  Philip Pape: That guy that's trying to extend his life, oh yeah, but he's not really living you know, that's the problem.
• 28:30
  Heather Gray: You know, and I think he even said that.
• 28:31
  Philip Pape: He also doesn't look like he lifts weights, but that's my own pet peeve on some of these guys.
• 28:37
  Heather Gray: Oh, I know, Right, absolutely crucial.
• 28:41
  Heather Gray: You know I'll tell them you got to stop your cardio, but I want you walking, yoga, stretching and weightlifting like that, absolutely, as we're healing.
• 28:49
  Heather Gray: Yeah so many benefits so with the comedy.
• 28:52
  Philip Pape: I think that's really cool because it's hard, like I do, public speaking and speech contests.
• 28:57
  Philip Pape: But I consider myself highly unfunny, and so in the past I've competed in humorous speech contests, deliberately make myself try to write jokes right, which I think is great.
• 29:06
  Philip Pape: You got to get out of your comfort zone.
• 29:07
  Philip Pape: Oh, absolutely so.
• 29:09
  Philip Pape: If people are listening like, oh, that's interesting, that could be something I would enjoy, or I'm into humor, or I was the class clown or whatever, I'm thinking like, what do you recommend for folks to get into it themselves?
• 29:19
  Philip Pape: I know it's a real side tangent.
• 29:22
  Heather Gray: I know it's a real side tangent.
• 29:23
  Heather Gray: I took a class Like improv, yeah, and it was stand-up.
• 29:25
  Philip Pape: Oh, stand-up like okay.
• 29:27
  Heather Gray: It was funny.
• 29:28
  Heather Gray: There's another doctor, his name's Dr Sam Shea and he's on the spectrum and he does stand-up.
• 29:33
  Heather Gray: He has a one-man show called NeuroSpicy.
• 29:35
  Heather Gray: Okay, and I met with him in person one day, because I do a lot of networking with fellow practitioners, and within five minutes he knew I wanted to speak more and be on keynotes.
• 29:44
  Heather Gray: And he was like you know, have you ever thought about doing standup?
• 29:47
  Heather Gray: I was like why on earth would I do that to myself?
• 29:54
  Heather Gray: He's like cause it's a really great skill to have If you're going to be a speaker.
• 29:56
  Heather Gray: It looks really good on your resume.
• 29:57
  Heather Gray: And I was like, okay, he goes.
• 29:59
  Heather Gray: Do you have any trauma in your life?
• 30:00
  Heather Gray: I said how long do you have for lunch?
• 30:02
  Heather Gray: And he goes I think you'd be really good at it.
• 30:06
  Heather Gray: You should take this class with me.
• 30:07
  Heather Gray: And actually that was a week ago last year.
• 30:09
  Heather Gray: So I've been doing standup for a year.
• 30:11
  Heather Gray: I've actually made money.
• 30:13
  Heather Gray: This year.
• 30:14
  Heather Gray: I've been on over like 50 shows, like in clubs and bars and stuff.
• 30:18
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, where can we find?
• 30:19
  Philip Pape: Like, are you on YouTube?
• 30:21
  Heather Gray: for that I'm on YouTube, yeah, yeah.
• 30:23
  Philip Pape: and then there's a comedy page on my website when I gave health boss, so all right, yeah, I just personally want to check that out selfishly, so I'm gonna.
• 30:29
  Philip Pape: I'm gonna go watch that later.
• 30:30
  Philip Pape: I love stand-up comedy.
• 30:31
  Philip Pape: There's so much of it now too on, like all the streaming services.
• 30:34
  Philip Pape: There's like too much right my name is tony.
• 30:38
  Tony: I'm a strength lifter in my 40s.
• 30:39
  Tony: Thank you to phil in his wits andights community for helping me learn more about nutrition and how to implement better ideas into my strength training.
• 30:47
  Tony: Phil has a very, very good understanding of macros and chemical compounds and hormones and all that and he's continuously learning.
• 30:55
  Tony: That's what I like about Phil.
• 30:56
  Tony: He's got a great sense of humor.
• 30:58
  Tony: He's very relaxed, very easy to talk to.
• 31:00
  Tony: One of the greatest things about Phil, in my view, is that he practices what he preaches.
• 31:04
  Tony: He also works out with barbells.
• 31:06
  Tony: He trains heavy not as heavy as me, but he trains heavy.
• 31:09
  Tony: So if you talk with him about getting in better shape, eating better, he's probably going to give you some good advice and I would strongly recommend you talk with him and he'll help you out.
• 31:20
  Philip Pape: What's something that you want listeners to learn about you that can help them in ways that were like, if they don't hear this advice, that 20 years are going to go by that they regret not having heard it.
• 31:31
  Philip Pape: Do you know what I mean?
• 31:32
  Philip Pape: No pressure.
• 31:34
  Heather Gray: Absolutely that not to give up.
• 31:36
  Heather Gray: You know that, like I said, no matter how common a symptom may be, it is never normal and everything is figureoutable for the most part.
• 31:43
  Heather Gray: You know it makes me so sad with these people who get diagnosed with Hashimoto's or other autoimmune and their doctor tells them they have to be on a biological or some other steroid or cortisone or something for the rest of their life.
• 31:54
  Heather Gray: That is absolute BS, you know.
• 31:57
  Heather Gray: And if you're willing to put in the work, because it's not easy, it's not easy going against the grain of society.
• 32:02
  Heather Gray: Sometimes it can feel a little lonely, a little isolating, and I'm finding that it is getting easier.
• 32:11
  Heather Gray: Like people are starting to wake up, like red dice Woo, you know the FDA finally decided that ref, they're going to ban red dye five.
• 32:18
  Heather Gray: It's going to be another three years.
• 32:20
  Heather Gray: So do yourself a favor.
• 32:21
  Heather Gray: And fricking banded in your own house, cause that stuff's been linked to autoimmune issues, mental health issues, adhd.
• 32:28
  Heather Gray: But slowly but slowly it's starting to come around.
• 32:31
  Heather Gray: People are starting to wake up.
• 32:32
  Heather Gray: And see, you know, there was a huge group of practitioners who were out protesting in front of Kellogg's and I wish I could have been with them.
• 32:40
  Heather Gray: I was at another conference at that time.
• 32:42
  Heather Gray: But Kellogg's and a lot of companies have got two different ingredients labels, one in Europe and one in the United States, because a lot of the food that we make here is banned in other countries.
• 32:56
  Heather Gray: Right, like, wrap your brain around that one, you know.
• 32:59
  Heather Gray: So, like I said, just really digging deeper, being an advocate for yourself and knowing that there can be another way if you're willing to look.
• 33:02
  Heather Gray: You know, that's kind of so, like I said, just really digging deeper, being an advocate for yourself and knowing that there can be another way if you're willing to look.
• 33:07
  Heather Gray: You know, that's kind of it in a nutshell.
• 33:10
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, that and that ties to your earlier comment about persistence or whatever we were saying.
• 33:15
  Philip Pape: You know about continuing to investigate, even whatever the doctors are saying, and it's not solving the issue for you.
• 33:21
  Philip Pape: Okay, so one other thing came to mind when you mentioned that, because you talked about when you were talking about celiac.
• 33:27
  Philip Pape: It was avoiding certain foods, not just grains but other potential gluten-containing foods, some autoimmune conditions that I understand.
• 33:35
  Philip Pape: The first line of defense recommended from a natural standpoint is some sort of elimination diet or potentially cutting out certain foods forever, and oftentimes it's a very unpalatable list of things like 80% of what you would normally enjoy, even in a quote unquote healthy diet.
• 33:51
  Philip Pape: I'm just curious of your thoughts of that where, like you're trying to make trade-offs for the rest of your life and you don't want to suffer either, and they're like here's this biologic you can inject yourself with once a week and you'll be good.
• 34:02
  Philip Pape: You know what I mean.
• 34:04
  Philip Pape: How do people address that kind of decision point?
• 34:07
  Heather Gray: Pain is inevitable.
• 34:07
  Heather Gray: Suffering is optional.
• 34:09
  Heather Gray: Again, a lot of that's mindset and a lot of it can be done slowly over time.
• 34:14
  Heather Gray: I am a rip the bandaid off type of gal.
• 34:17
  Heather Gray: Not everybody can do what I do.
• 34:19
  Heather Gray: You know Dr Tom O'Brien, he's a huge hero for me and has been for the long time and I had him on my show and he was like you know, Heather, you can do it slower.
• 34:28
  Heather Gray: You know, like the first month you have them cut out wheat, and then the next month you have them cut out corn, and then the next month and then in a year's time, right, and then it doesn't feel so heavy.
• 34:38
  Heather Gray: Up front I was like, oh yeah, I suppose you could do that.
• 34:40
  Heather Gray: But, like I said, I'm kind of a rip the bandaid off.
• 34:43
  Heather Gray: But I was also really, really sick and I really needed answers, like yesterday.
• 34:47
  Heather Gray: So you can do it that way.
• 34:49
  Heather Gray: A lot of it is mindset, A lot of it's just a new learning curve.
• 34:53
  Heather Gray: I eat amazing and that's why I made like a seven video cooking series, because I got so sick of people going God, what can you eat?
• 35:01
  Heather Gray: And I'm like God, what can you eat?
• 35:09
  Heather Gray: And I'm like tonight I'm having short ribs with braised carrots and sweet potatoes.
• 35:12
  Heather Gray: You know like I am, a bad-ass cook.
• 35:12
  Philip Pape: You had me at short ribs.
• 35:14
  Heather Gray: We eat so good.
• 35:15
  Heather Gray: It's ridiculous.
• 35:16
  Heather Gray: And you know, and there's a lot of variety in our diet.
• 35:18
  Heather Gray: Like I just eat real food, you know meat, vegetables, fruit, like there you go.
• 35:25
  Heather Gray: And and I'm not a fan of cutting out a lot of the starchy vegetables because I I know that they can help actually feed the microbiome in a certain way.
• 35:33
  Heather Gray: You know, if you cook, cool it.
• 35:36
  Heather Gray: You know, eat it cooked and cool, that helps with the starch resistance.
• 35:40
  Heather Gray: If you eat it last, it can help with the blood sugar issues.
• 35:45
  Heather Gray: And never, never never, never eat it naked, you know.
• 35:48
  Heather Gray: Always some sort of a healthy fat, you know because it creates more resistant starch.
• 35:51
  Philip Pape: When you do that right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:53
  Heather Gray: Yeah, so you know there's a couple of different hacks that I do, but for the most part, you know, I don't.
• 35:59
  Heather Gray: You know, and everybody's different too.
• 36:01
  Heather Gray: I've started doing this genetic test a nutrition genome on people, cause I really want to find out, cause for the longest time everyone was touting keto, keto, keto.
• 36:09
  Heather Gray: I got on keto.
• 36:10
  Heather Gray: It jacked me up in so much weight, I was in so much pain and come to find out that my body does not process that much fat, even healthy fat, like it was like.
• 36:25
  Heather Gray: And then I also had food sensitivities towards almonds and coconut at the time, which is hugely used in a lot of keto foods.
• 36:29
  Heather Gray: So you know I do better on a little bit more of a paleo type diet.
• 36:33
  Heather Gray: You know, even kind of a little on the Mediterranean side.
• 36:36
  Heather Gray: So you know I like finding out what works for a person instead of just this throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks or putting somebody on a one sizesize-fits-all, because we're just so different.
• 36:45
  Philip Pape: All right, is there anything you wish I had asked today?
• 36:47
  Philip Pape: Again, it was a very diverse conversation but, I think, a good one.
• 36:51
  Philip Pape: I think we covered a lot of helpful points for folks who are struggling with some of these and want to know what they could possibly do or what they should do.
• 36:57
  Philip Pape: Anything you wish I had asked.
• 36:59
  Heather Gray: I know, I think we covered quite a bit.
• 37:01
  Philip Pape: I know I think we covered quite a bit.
• 37:03
  Philip Pape: Okay, all right, cool, all right.
• 37:06
  Philip Pape: Where can listeners learn more about you?
• 37:07
  Philip Pape: I will definitely look up the comedy side, but from a health side, where do you want them to find you?
• 37:10
  Heather Gray: I am the Renegade Health Boss across all platforms.
• 37:14
  Heather Gray: And then I have a free Foundations of Health little mini ebook that you can find on rhbcoursescom.
• 37:21
  Heather Gray: That's Renegade Health Boss, rhbcoursescom and that's Renegade Health Boss.
• 37:24
  Heather Gray: You know rhbcoursescom and get that free download and you can, you know, start your journey today.
• 37:30
  Philip Pape: All right, cool.
• 37:30
  Philip Pape: Yeah, we'll throw those in the show notes.
• 37:32
  Philip Pape: I believe we're going to see each other again soon on your podcast and, yeah, thanks so much for coming on.
• 37:38
  Philip Pape: This is awesome.
• 37:39
  Heather Gray: Absolutely Thanks for having me.