Latest / The You Project / #1877 Not All Protein is Equal - David Gillespie

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#1877 Not All Protein is Equal - David Gillespie · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Agilespo. Welcome back to the You Project. How are you, sir?
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good, good to be here.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: There's no Tiff today. You're probably going to struggle.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I am. I'm struggling already.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: Well, she will be listening to this tonight because she's
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: going to edit it. Lately, she's got allegedly influenza A
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: and in bed and crook.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Allegedly Tiff, she's got really got flato.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Right, feels like a day off.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: No, I think she's actually crook. So shout out to Tiff.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Get better.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Now, I'm prepared to have one conversation. And you said
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: to me, I.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Thought, well, to the extent that you prepare at all,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: let's be honest.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Well that is true, absolutely true.
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  Speaker 3: So when I said prepared, I looked in LinkedIn and
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: saw the title of an article that you'd written.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: No, that's not true. I've actually got qus questions.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: But we can do that one too. We got time.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Let's see how we go, because I'm I think I've
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: spoken about a lot over the years and get asked
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: a lot about, especially working with athletes and bodybuilders and
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: the general public who are fascinated with, if not obsessed
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: with protein consumption and recovery and micros and macros and
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: how much of our deis and what we need and
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: don't need, and all the myriad of variables around nutrition.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: But you wrote an article on protein. Firstly, what made
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: you write that? What was the genesis for you writing
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: an article on protein?
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  Speaker 4: Noticing the advertising, I guess, and I honestly don't pay
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: a lot of attention to processed food advertising because I
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: barely eat processed food. But I've noticed now everything seems
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: to have protein as a selling feature. You know, you
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: got your up and go proteins and your nutro grain protein,
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: and your protein enhanced to ice cream. I don't think
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  Speaker 4: they can actually call it up screwm if it doesn't
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: have certain levels of things in it, but they call
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: it a frozen dessert, you know, your protein enhanced to
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  Speaker 4: food bars, your protein enhanced Milo breakfast cereal, you name it.
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  Speaker 4: There's barely anything that now doesn't have a whacking great
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: protein thing on the label, and they're usually shouting numbers
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  Speaker 4: at you, you know, contains fifteen grams or ten grams
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  Speaker 4: or seven grams or seventeen grams, you know, so that
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  Speaker 4: people can go ooh and ah and oh, that's got
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: seventeen grams in it.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: So it occurred to me to ask, is this just
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: like fiber? Is this the.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: Fiber of the you know, the current decade where you've
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: just got to put it on the label, you know,
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  Speaker 4: and doesn't matter, doesn't make any difference at all. And
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: we've talked about fiber before, and in fact, probably fiber
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: makes the problem it purports to solve much worse in
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: that it's likely to cause constipation rather and cure it.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: But protein, I wondered, is there anything to all this
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: protein stuff? I mean, I've known for a long time
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: because I used to hang out in gyms that you know,
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  Speaker 4: people flog protein powders and people who do weights and
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  Speaker 4: someone you know subsist on them, and so there must
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  Speaker 4: be something to it.
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  Speaker 2: I thought, But.
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  Speaker 4: Does everyone who's knocking back a bowl of chocolate cereal
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: need extra protein? Do people eating ice cream need extra protein?
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: That was the question I was asking myself. So I
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: thought I'd start finding out and when digging and write
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: an article about what I discovered. So, you know, I
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: like to go into the history of things a bit,
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  Speaker 4: So I wondered. The first question I wanted is how
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: much protein are we supposed to be having and where
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: on Earth did that come from?
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  Speaker 2: And how do we know?
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  Speaker 3: I think what did you find? Is it zero point
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: eight grams for kilo body.
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  Speaker 4: Point eight or in Australia point eight four? I think
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  Speaker 4: it is for some bizarre reason. So, and that came
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  Speaker 4: out of some studies that were done in during the
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  Speaker 4: Second World War where the US military was trying to
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  Speaker 4: figure out what's the least we can give a human
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  Speaker 4: to keep them alive? Essentially, you know, what's what's the
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  Speaker 4: least we can at what's the level below which we
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: no longer have an effective fighting machine? And they commissioned
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: some scientists or redirected their efforts from finding out cures
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  Speaker 4: to diseases and things, and said, listen, we really need
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  Speaker 4: to know this stuff. We need to know you know,
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  Speaker 4: what's our minimum? How much can we get away with
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  Speaker 4: giving people? And the answer came back with a resounding well,
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  Speaker 4: we're not really sure, because the science at the time
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  Speaker 4: and probably honestly now, was a bit unsciency. It consisted
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: mostly of rat studies and not many of them, and
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  Speaker 4: a few tiny little human trials of two or three
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  Speaker 4: patients in a hospital and things like that, and most
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  Speaker 4: of them were people who were suffering from severe protein
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  Speaker 4: deficiency anyway, and so we're running into issues with amino
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  Speaker 4: acid building and all that sort of thing. So the
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  Speaker 4: answer was, we don't know, but cobbling together what they
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  Speaker 4: did have, they came up with a number and doubled it.
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  Speaker 4: So they came up with a number around the point
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  Speaker 4: for and said, that's probably below that. Probably we're not sure,
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  Speaker 4: but just guessing below that, you might be in trouble.
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  Speaker 2: But they weren't.
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  Speaker 4: Happy having that as the recommendation because who knows, it
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  Speaker 4: could be really wrong. So they built in a margin
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  Speaker 4: of eera if you like, and bumped it too point
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  Speaker 4: eight and said, day, that'll do. We'll say that it's
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: point eight per kilo. Now people might be wondering, who
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  Speaker 4: aren't jim junkies, what that means in terms a normal
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  Speaker 4: person can understand. So point eight of a kilo for
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  Speaker 4: an average adult is for a male, that's around sixty
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  Speaker 4: four ish kilo grams of protein a day, and for
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  Speaker 4: a female it's around forty six grams of protein a day.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so the equation is point eight, yeah, point.
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  Speaker 4: Per point eight of a gram, you know, per kilo
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  Speaker 4: body weight.
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  Speaker 3: If you get your body weight times up by point eight.
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  Speaker 3: So if you're yeah, yeah, times point eight gives you
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  Speaker 3: fifty six, if you're one hundred gives you eighty yeah.
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  Speaker 4: So obviously it's those numbers that I just gave you
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  Speaker 4: just an average, right, you know, if you look at
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  Speaker 4: the average body weight, then that's what it's going to be.
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  Speaker 4: And you might be thinking, you know, what does that
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  Speaker 4: translate to in terms of I could eat? Well, a
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  Speaker 4: chicken breast is fifty grams of protein. So if you
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  Speaker 4: ate a chicken breast, had a chicken sand which or whatever,
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  Speaker 4: and assumed you ate nothing else that contained protein all day,
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  Speaker 4: which would be impossible since significant amount of protein comes
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  Speaker 4: from grains.
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  Speaker 2: But we'll talk about that in sec you fifty. If
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  Speaker 2: you just ate a chicken breast, you're at fifty grams.
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  Speaker 2: So if you're a woman, you're already there.
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  Speaker 4: You're done, You've already hit the minimum requirements. If you're
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  Speaker 4: a man, you're almost there. The average Australian, it turns out,
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  Speaker 4: is not at risk of any kind of protein deficiency
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  Speaker 4: because the average Australian is already at almost twice that
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  Speaker 4: level that the er point eighty four grams per day
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  Speaker 4: thing is, so sixty four grams, the average stran's actually
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  Speaker 4: eating about ninety five grams of protein a day, So
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  Speaker 4: none of us are at any risk of being deficient
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  Speaker 4: in protein, and most of us are well over the
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  Speaker 4: one and a.
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  Speaker 2: Half times the recommended minimum.
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  Speaker 4: And people might be saying, oh, that's all well and
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  Speaker 4: good for you cow munches, but I'm a vegetarian or
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  Speaker 4: a vegan, so I'm not getting anywhere near that, And
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  Speaker 4: that's not true either. You know, significant amounts of protein
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  Speaker 4: are found in things like legumes and grains, like breads,
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  Speaker 4: breakfast cereals, things like that. In fact, about a quarter
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  Speaker 4: of all Australia's protein comes from cereals alone, so it's
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  Speaker 4: not just eating meat. And all Australians are well and
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  Speaker 4: truly north of or the vast majority of us well
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  Speaker 4: and truly north of it, probably in the range one
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  Speaker 4: and a half times to two times the minimum recommendation,
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  Speaker 4: which remember in itself was padded.
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  Speaker 2: So there's no risk of protein deficiency.
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  Speaker 4: So then why is all of our food labeled and
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  Speaker 4: even in many cases supplemented with extra protein? And that
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  Speaker 4: was the question I was asking, which is, what are
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  Speaker 4: the benefits are there benefits from there. What do you
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  Speaker 4: think the benefits are, Craig Jim hangaroud r.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I mean the interesting thing about microme macro nutrients.
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  Speaker 3: So with some proteins like rice, wheat, beans, lentils, peanuts, corn,
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  Speaker 3: they have a fair bit of protein, but they're not
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  Speaker 3: complete proteins, so they exactly they lack some of the
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  Speaker 3: nine essential amino acids. Right, So not all, not all,
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  Speaker 3: just like not all calories are equal, not all grams
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  Speaker 3: of protein are equal.
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  Speaker 1: But I'm with you. I think there's a real marketing
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  Speaker 1: thing that's that's kind of bullshit.
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  Speaker 3: I think, you know, the thing is just like you know,
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  Speaker 3: you give old mate five almonds and they're great for him,
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: and you give old mate over their five almonds and
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  Speaker 3: he has an anaphylactic reaction and dies. Right. So the
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  Speaker 3: thing is that these different things interact differently with different
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: people's physiology, because while everyone's physiology is similar, it's not identical.
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  Speaker 3: And so one of the other things too, is that
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  Speaker 3: like our dieyes operate on the assumption that people need
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  Speaker 3: about the same amount of everything every day, which with
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: some people is true, with some people is wildly untrue.
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  Speaker 1: Like I reckon.
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  Speaker 3: Some days I need two thousand calories, maybe fifteen hundred
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: because I sit on my arse all day and writes,
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  Speaker 3: and other days I would need four thousand to break even.
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  Speaker 3: So it's a variable, not a constant.
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  Speaker 1: And I think also.
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  Speaker 3: There's another thing that people don't factor in.
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  Speaker 1: You, I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: Have you heard of thermogenesis in relation to food? Anyway,
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  Speaker 3: I'll just explain it. So the thermogenic effect of food
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  Speaker 3: means this. So one hundred calories of protein versus one
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  Speaker 3: hundred calories of fat versus one hundred calories of carbohydrate,
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  Speaker 3: there's a different energy costs for each of those macro
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  Speaker 3: nutrients breaking them down to be utilizable in the body. So,
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  Speaker 3: for example, the thermic effect or the thermic cost of
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  Speaker 3: protein from one hundred calories is about thirty calories, So.
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  Speaker 1: The net result of calories with that is about seventy.
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  Speaker 3: But with fat one hundred calories of fat, you're only
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  Speaker 3: losing about three calories in that process, in that metabolic process.
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  Speaker 3: So it is really interesting, and I think a lot
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  Speaker 3: of the thinking now is that point eight of a
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  Speaker 3: grand pekilo body bah bah blah blah. Is for the
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  Speaker 3: general public. Probably some are in the ballpark, but for
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: people who.
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  Speaker 4: Well and for the general public significantly less than they're
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  Speaker 4: consuming anyway.
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  Speaker 1: And so.
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  Speaker 2: We relieve there is some actual science on this answering
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: the question of.
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  Speaker 4: You know, is it is is it possible to have
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: too much protein?
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  Speaker 2: Is there is there a downside to having too much protein?
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  Speaker 4: Is there is there a problem with is there a
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: limit by beyond which there's no point adding protein? And
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: the answer is yes, we we've done some science on
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  Speaker 4: this stuff. And one of the bits of science split
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: people into groups where they weren't protein supplementing, where they
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: were protein supplementing and by one and a half times
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  Speaker 4: the RDA, and another group where they were protein supplementing
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: by two times the idea. And what they found is
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: that there were benefits to building muscles. So they had
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: both of them. They had all three groups working out weightlifting,
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  Speaker 4: et cetera, building muscle over a period of time, and
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: what they found was that the people who were on
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: one and a half times the RDA, which is basically
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: the average person in the Australian population, right, so the
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: person the people who were in that group did get benefits.
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  Speaker 4: They were able to put on more muscle mass than
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  Speaker 4: the group who were not being supplemented at all. But
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: the interesting bit was that once they looked at the
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: two times RDA, it didn't make any difference. So the
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: people with the two times we're doing just as they
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: also put on muscle mass compared to the people who
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: weren't being supplemented, but it was the same as the
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: people who one and a half times, So.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: There was clearly a plateau.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: You know, there is a benefit if weightlifting you're lifting
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: is your thing, and you're trying to build muscle mass,
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  Speaker 4: then there is a benefit to increasing the amount of
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: protein too, about what the average as train is consuming anyway,
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: so you wouldn't need to do anything to do that.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: You just continue eating as normal. But going any further
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: than that doesn't seem to have any particular benefit at all.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: So do you reckon? Do you reckon that number?
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: If you're talking about one and a half times point eight,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: so we're talking then one point two per is that
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: the number, give or take?
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Do you reckon? No?
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: One point five?
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: So one point five one point five if you if
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: you're wanting to build muscle mass, one point five so
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: oh sorry, yeah, that would be one point two grams
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: per I misunderstood you. Sorry, one point two grams per
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: per kiler seems to be about the mark and going
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: beyond that, really, you know, getting up to say one
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: point six or one point seven one point eight doesn't
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: make any difference. The interesting thing is that we've also
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: had the question, okay, but what if you just go
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: crazy and really pump it, you know, put as much
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: protein as you can. Fine, in can you have too much?
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: And the answer is.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: No, but.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: No, if your kidneys are healthy. Yes, if your kidneys
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: are healthy, you'll be fine.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: They will deal with that and they'll be fine.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: They can adapt and the butt there is almost none
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: of us in our modern Australian society have healthy kidneys
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: because most of us are consuming a diet full of
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: sugar and sugar via the uric acid pathway REX kidneys.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: There's a reason that we are in the middle of
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: an epidemic of kidney disease in this country. It's because
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: we're in the middle of an epidemic of consuming too
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: much sugar. Sugar consumption REX kidneys. The bad thing about
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: wrecking kidneys is that your kidneys are actually really resilient
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: and can function even if they're ninety five percent impaired.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: So most people whose kidneys are wrecked don't know it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: But believe me, if you're on a high sugar diet,
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: you have done damage to your kidneys. So coming back
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: to the original question we asked, which is is it
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: a thing to consume too much protein? Well, yeah, it
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: is if your kidneys aren't tickety boo, And for a
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: lot of Australians the answer is maybe they're not. Yeah,
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: And then that brought me full circle to Okay, but
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: most of the food that is proudly proclaiming that it
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: is full of extra protein is actually very very high
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: sugar food. You know, we've got sugar sugary ice creams
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: or frozen desserts that are protein enhanced, chocolate cereals that
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: are protein enhanced, muslely bars that are protein enhanced. So
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: sure they're protein enhanced, but you're a consuming protein you
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: probably don't need, and b also consuming the sugar that
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: would damage your ability to deal with the protein you
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: probably don't need.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dred percent. And that's the thing. It's like.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: So let's say you've got a musli bar that's thirty
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: percent sugar, and you know it might have five grams
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: of protein per bar and.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Thirty grams of sugar.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: But five grams of protein and a musli bar is
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: probably double the average.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Museley Bart, you know what I mean.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: You know, contextually it's high, but in real terms it's
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: it's six times the sugar as the protein. But that
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: nobody's going to buy that.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so where does this all take you?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Is my?
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: You know what does this mean? It means you probably
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: don't need extra protein. If you do want extra protein,
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: because there was clearly a benefit to muscle gain by
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: having protein of about one point two grams for kilo
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: per day. If you want that, get it from meat
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: so that it's complete, and don't get it from sugary
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: food that claims to have extra protein.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny because I'm I get asked a lot
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: about how much protein do I need? And look, protein matters,
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: and but and I think, actually, people who train very hard,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: and I'm talking about people who are athletes somewhere closer
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: to the elite end right, I'm not talking about the
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: general population, but I reckon they need more maybe too.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Well, they probably do. There's under there are other studies.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: Sorry I was talking about a study of average people.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's you.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: There are other studies on weightlifters who show that there
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: are benefits. If weightlifting lifting is your gig and you
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: are going for mister Universe or whatever it is, then
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: there are significant benefits. I mean, muscles at the end
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: of the day are made from protein, so there are
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: clear benefits if that is what you are doing to
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: increasing protein, as long as once again, you're carefully managing
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: it and your kidneys aren't screwed. But it's it's what
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: I'm talking about, is the man in the street who's
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: walking past shelf after shelf protein enhanced food that it's
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: also heavily sugar enhanced. And the answer there is you
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: don't need the extra protein, and if you feel you do,
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: get it from meat or dairy, both excellent sources of protein,
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: giving you complete proteins and without all the sugar.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: I get asked a lot about you know, not that
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: I'm the high watermark for anything, but because I train
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: all the time and I've been all that, and people
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: are always not everyone, not always, but but a lot
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: of people are regularly surprised by how little I eat
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: and how little I use supplements or promote anything. And
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: I'm sponsored. I'm sponsored by a company. I'll say they're
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: know Maxes, and they give me all the shit that
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: I want, right, and they're great. But when somebody goes
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: to me, do I need Should I take a protein supplement?
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: I say no, not if you get enough protein, Like
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: if you've got enough protein in your diet, which you
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: probably have, then you don't need to supplement with protein obviously,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: just like if your cars full of petrol, you don't
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: want to keep trying to pour petrol in the tank
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: because it's fucking full.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: It doesn't need.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: It, so you know it's it's you can only and
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: at that point that one point two grams you know
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: for the average punts or a little bit higher for
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the athlete in training or the strength athlete or the
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: power athlete.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: You know that's going to go up.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: But there is a point, like there's a threshold where
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: you know, let's say your cutoff is one point too well,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: you can have ten, you're going to get You're only
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: going to get, you know, more disadvantages than benefits, right,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: because your body can only use utilize what it can utilize.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: You know, it can utilize up to about two, So
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: up to about two then it's flushing the rest and
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: and the way it's doing that is through your kidneys,
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: which is fine if your kidneys are okay.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I remember I don't know if you remember this,
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: but years ago at the Australian Open, I think it
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: was the Australian Open. It was about a million degrees
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: in Melbourne and Pat do you remember you remember the
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: tennis player Pat.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Rafter, Yeah, you're a boy.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: So he had this physiological it's not a condition, but challenge.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: That he could.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: He used to sweat like ridiculously, like more than the
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: other athletes, and so one of the challenges that he
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: had was trying to stay hydrated, and he would typically
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: sweat more than he could hydrate because your body can
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: only you can only put in like your body can
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: only absorb so much. And so when you take too
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: much water in a short period of time.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: What's it called.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: I think it's called hyperneutremia or something where you dilute
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: your blood, like you lower everything, you know, to the
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: point where you can almost kill yourself. But yeah, your
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: body you can you can't, just.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I think you can. I think they have been death
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: recorded from that.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so all tastic and all of that gets diluted
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: and then people have died through that. But yeah, but
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: the bottom line is your body can only absorb what
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: it can absorb.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's okay as long as the body's in
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: good working order. But if you've been chowing down on
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: sugar filled snacks to get your protein, there's a good
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: chance it isn't.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: And so for what are your thoughts around people who
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: are listening to this, who are you know, vegans and
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: vegetarians and so you know, they might be consuming like
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: a fair bit of protein, but yeah, not necessarily complete proteins.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: And by that we mean everyone that proteins built essentially
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: of these things called amino acids, and not all protein
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: contains all of the there's nine essential amino acids that
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: we need, I.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Think, like with everything.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, at the risk of offending half
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: your audience, vegan and vegetarian is not a natural way
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: for a human, which is an omnivore, to eat. So
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: our entire metabolism is designed by evolution to be an omnivore,
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: which means our body makes assumptions about the fuel we're
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: going to be giving it, and one of those assumptions
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: is going to contain some meat. So the advice about
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: this is the same as the advice about many things
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: for vegetarians and vegans, which is you have to be
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: aware of the things you're not getting and make sure
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: you are appropriately supplementing to cover those gaps, because there
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: are gaps, and this is one of them.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I just did a quick little search before.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: While you're talking about the vast amount of sugar that
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: people consume, I don't know how accurate this is. I
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: would have thought it was more than this, but it
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: says the average as he consumes fourd and tea spoons
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: of kind of additional sugar per day.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: Have you been reading the sugar industry's website? Have you
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: let me tell you the real data. The real data
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: is it's about forty tea spoons. Yeah, right, yeah, it's
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: about forty tea spoons. And you'll find there's some interesting
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: definitions and assumptions in whenever they throw those kinds of
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: numbers around. So, but the reality is the ABS.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, well it.
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: Is the ABS, but it'll be additional sugar and it'll
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: be so they're saying, we're going to exclude all the
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: other sugar in the diet. And the ABS, by the way,
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: stopped collecting data on sugar consumption in nineteen ninety eight
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: when they discontinued that series. So this is a you know,
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: back when Sweet Poison came out, we had the whole
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: Sugar Wars and went through all this stuff. The reality
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: is the sugar industry makes very it makes it very
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: very hard to find any accurate data on how much
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: sugar we're consuming. The best guess is it's about forty
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: t spoons per person per day.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Hell, and what's it is? A teaspoon four or.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Four grands four?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: But that's all.
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: Oh now, yeah, But as I said to you before,
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: that's easy to get to. Like a lot of people
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: say to me, there's no way, I'm not forget it,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: I'm not eating forty teaspoons of sugar. But when they
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: realize there's sixteen teaspoons in a canna coke or that
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: you can push back from a heart foundation indoors to breakfast,
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: you know, like like nutrient group well, you know, like
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: sultana bran and a glass of orange juice, and you're
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: already at twenty teaspoons of sugar.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: You know, it's very very easy to get there.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I told you this some shed
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: a couple of times, but I remember when my dad
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: had his first heart attack. I went into hospital is
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: that two? And they so he's diabetic, like an insulin
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: dependent diabetic. And I just happened to arrive when they
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: were bringing his more tea. And his morning tea was
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: orange juice and scones and jam and cream. Yeah, this
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: is for the guy that's a diabetic. This is what
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: they fed him in hospital.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but that cream was low fat. Oh god, it
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: was probably sweetened, but low fat.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, anyway, they.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: Probably also gave him an hour glass of low fat
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: milk to go with it.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Are you particularly particular about your diet or are you
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: a bit freestyle? Like do you do you have a
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: do you have a protocol or do you just eat
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: when you're hungry and eat what you want and stop
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: when you're not hungry?
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: That I in particular about. One thing is I don't
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: consume anything that contains sugar. Yeah, and I don't, so
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: you know, I'll have a pie and chips, but I
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: won't have any sauce on the pie, and the chips
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: have to not be cooked in seed oil.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: People don't understand that regular old white Crow tomato sauce
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: or Heinz tomato sauce is about is mostly sugar fifty
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: sugar and barb sauces. Barbecue sauce is worse. Right.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: Barbecue sauce is about fifty five percent sugar, depending on
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: the brand. The average tomato sauce is about a quarter
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: to a third.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Sugar, right, Okay, I thought it was higher.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So so every time you give a decent sized
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: squirt of sauce on your on your sausage and bread,
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: you're probably adding a couple of teaspoons of sugar to it.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: So when you go to Bunnings and you get a
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: bangerah which is made from god knows what and white
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: bread with half a let.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: What saws canola in it, yeah yeah.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: And canola oil, it's probably not your ideal nutritional snack,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: is it.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah? But there are worse things you could eat, and
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: people do eat all the time. You know.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: It's like when people say, oh, would you eat at McDonald's,
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: I would if they you know, if it was three
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: two thousand and four, McDonald's because then they cooked in
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: animal fat, but now they cook in teat oil.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: So no, sorry, I can't.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Remember I sent you something, and then I think subsequently
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: you wrote a little piece about it. One of them
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: was it Burger King or one of them as reverted
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: to using beef tallow in their court.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: Ah. No, that's a mob in the United States. And
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: they had a great logo. Actually they said you had
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: me at Tellow. That's right, and they're a pretty big
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: chain in the United States. But yeah, they've switched over.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: They've said, stuff this, We're just going to cook it
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: in animal fat. And you know, everyone loves their chips,
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: of course, because chips cooked animal fat are a lot
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: nicer than cook's chips cooked in seed oil, and they're
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: also much healthier for them. I wish there was a
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: chain here that did that, you know, prior to twenty
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: twelve there was, so McDonald switched over in two thousand
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: and four twenty twelve, KFC hung on until and then
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: they switched over then. But I almost earned myself a
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: divorce one day because I heard on the radio that
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: they were doing that, and this was the last day
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: are going to be cooking in animal fat. So I
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: stopped in at the local kfceing got you know, a
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: celebratory last packet of fries, but I didn't bring some
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: home for my wife and yeah, that didn't go down.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Well wow, that could have been the marital camels back.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: But it's always fun chatting to you. Oh, I had
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: one last question I've asked you this current Remember do
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: you drink booze? Yeah?
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, not a lot, but I'll you know, if
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: someone's having a drink, I'll have a drink with them.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts about that?
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: So? I mean, I guess it moderation, like what do
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: you have a glass of wine here and there or something.
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: I really hate the word moderation because its definition is
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: to most people, whatever I'm currently consuming is in moderation.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: So I think it's a weasel word invented by the
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: food industry so that people can feel okay about whatever
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: they're consuming. There's a really hard limit on alcohol. We
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: can talk about alcohol another da actually becau. There's a
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: really interesting science on this. We have an evolutionary limit
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: of the equivalent of about two drinks worth in a
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: day because and the evolutionary limit comes from we evolve
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: the ability to deal with alcohol at all because we'd
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: occasionally scoff down over ripe fruit which has got fermented
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: sugars in it, which is where alcohol comes from. So
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: we can't be an animal that can't deal with alcohol.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: Alcohol is a poison, right, so if you can't deal
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: with it, it kills you. So so we have evolved an
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: ability to deal with alcohol in small quantities, just like
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: we have a deal we'll deal with alcohol before it's fermented,
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: which is when it's a sugar. We can deal with
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: that in small quantity too when we write fruit. So
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: we have an ability to deal with it. What we
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: can't do is we can't adapt that ability, So as
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: we drink more and more alcohol, we overwhelm the circuitry
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: or bio chemical circuitry that deals with diffusing alcohol. And
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: the interesting part about this, and we'll talk about it
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: in detail on another day, but the interesting part about
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: this is that same circuitry is used to deal with
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: the dangerous byproducts of consuming seed oils. So we've talked
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: before about old hides. Alcohol produces alder hides, seed oils
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: produce alder hides. Unfortunately, it all goes down the same pipe.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: And if we've.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Overwhelmed our ability to deal with those older hides by
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: drinking alcohol, we're even less able to deal with the
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: seed oil ones and vice versa. So it's extremely dangerous.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: There are very good reasons not to drink large corantities
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: of it, but it's also by the same token, something
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: that you can have the occasional drink and it's not
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: going to hurt you.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people freak out when I tell them I go.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: You know, alcohol's poisonous.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: You know, your body recognizes it as poison, and it's
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: got to metabolize that before it. So if you have
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: five pizzas and a beer and five beers, it's got
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: to deal with the beer before the pizza.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it is a poison.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: You're right, it is a poison, and thankfully we've got
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: the ability to diffuse it. But it's a limited a
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: blit of it.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and what a glorious poison it is. Some people, Mate,
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: I appreciate. We'll say goodbye off here, but thanks again, buddy.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pleasure