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Elemental Witchcraft with Heron Michelle · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: What a.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the cults rejects. This episode, I got a
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: very special guest, very excited to have her on. She
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: does own a shop near my house, so I'm happy
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: to get somebody on that's local and that's actually into
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: the community. But before we introduce her, we will be
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: introducing the other rejects on the show.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: We got the Loon Judith with us today. What is
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: going on? How are you hey?
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: I'm alone? You can catch me on YouTube as the Loon.
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: I just dropped the most recent buddy check and you
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: can catch me also on Twitter.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Awesome. Thank you very much for joining. I appreciate it.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: And we got Arrows Up. What is going on? Errows?
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: How wire you doing well?
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: Happy to be here, Happy to talk with Haron. We
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: always have such fantastic guests, so it's always a good time,
• 1:13
  Speaker 5: always exciting. You can find me on YouTube at Arrows Up,
• 1:16
  Speaker 5: and you can find me on Twitter at arrows to Ethos.
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: I post a lot of Platonist and metaphysics and astrology,
• 1:27
  Speaker 6: so if you're interested in any of those topics check
• 1:30
  Speaker 6: me out.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Awesome. Thank you so much. I was always appreciate what
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: you need to make the show and.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Last minute least my boy, Headless Giant, how are you so?
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: How you doing?
• 1:39
  Speaker 7: You can find me at the Headless Giant on YouTube
• 1:41
  Speaker 7: and on x and on Instagram as well, so check
• 1:46
  Speaker 7: those out. And I have shows pretty much every day,
• 1:51
  Speaker 7: at least it has been so far, so you can
• 1:53
  Speaker 7: check out my Alchemy Mondays with Arrows and my seven
• 1:57
  Speaker 7: seven seven Tuesdays with Nick. And I do another show
• 2:01
  Speaker 7: called The Trialogues with Ethan Indigo and Ricardo on Sundays,
• 2:06
  Speaker 7: so check those out ten thirty on Sunday, seven thirty
• 2:09
  Speaker 7: on the rest of the time.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you very much, sir.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, today we have with us Michelle. No, sorry, I
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: forgot to herod Michelle. Sorry and again I was telling
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: people prior to the show and here now, yeah I was.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: There was a couple of metaphysics, so I don't know
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: how you want to call them, which shops which stores
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: out up by me and I stopped and all of
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: them wanted to drop off some stickers and kind of
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: introduce myself. But for some reason when I got when
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: I walked in there, I had the feeling like I
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: don't know. I wanted to ask the lady on. I
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: just feel like she had something to say. And then
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: she mentioned that she had books and she even had
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: them with a Welle, so I was like, oh, okay,
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: so and I saw Elemental Witchcraft and that was something
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: that I was looking to cover on the show kind of.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: I was going to go through a book and try
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: to cover it myself, and it was gonna be a
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: lot of work. So when she mentioned that, I was like, oh, perfect,
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: We'll just get her on to talk about.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: It, save me up a lot of trouble in time.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: So I think it worked out well.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: She does have a shop to so Joanna, and she
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: does have a book that we're going to be talking about,
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: which is Elemental Witchcraft, A Guide to living a Magical
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Life through the Elements. And yes that is again that's
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: out on Llewellyn recently. I just contacted them, so I'm hoping,
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: hoping that they will send me authors because I was
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: already have any tradition than Weiser sending me.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: So I'm going full well and let's see what happens.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: But please, Michelle, let everybody know where they can find
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: your stuff if you want to advertise the store. Anything
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: you would like to plug, please let people know.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: Okay, well, thanks for having me on again. In this world,
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: I move about as Haron Michelle. You can call me
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: either or both, and I do publish through Llewellyn. I've
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: got one book out in a three book series, the
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Pinnacle Path series is what I call it. It was
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: pitched as a three book series, but who knows. You
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: know the word pinnacles, and it'll probably be in the end.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: I've got lots to say. I also have been blogging
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: on the Pathios Pagan channel since twenty fifteen as Witch
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: on Fire, and I now do a sub stack under
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: heron Michelle and all the other places. You know, YouTube,
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: which I don't do very much with anymore, but you
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: know all the social media places. If you're looking for me,
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: I'm under heron Michelle and also I teach my book
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: in a eighteen month long course on Harronmichelle dot com,
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: which has got all the information about my work. And
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: I do graphic art to support my occult and witchcraft
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: practices and to help others to visualize and make that
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: magic real in their lives. So I have art, poetry, blogs, articles, books,
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: and I'm now working on pushing the second book, Lunar
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: Witchcraft after the series through Llewellyn. It's been submitted, but
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: it's in progress. And the third book I'm working on
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: now in first draft will be Solar Witchcraft. So I'm
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: basically working Middle World with the elemental witchcraft first, and
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: then Underworld and Lunar Witchcraft working with the goddess forms specifically,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: and then Solar Witchcraft will be the god forms, the Sabbats,
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: the seasons, et cetera, and the upper world.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: Wow. Nice, I love it sounds great. How long has
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: your shop been around for?
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: We are about to celebrate our seventeenth anniversary of being
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: open on four to fourteen Evans Street. But we actually
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: started our business as more of tent vending and whatnot
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: at Pagan Prie Days and other conferences and festivals and things.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: We started a Tumnal Equinox in two thousand and eight,
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: so eighteen seventeen years.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Nice. Good for you, Good for you. Have you become
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: kind of like a staple in Greenville.
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: In Greenville, I guess you'd say that, I mean.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: Not knocking the other stores, but I mean you just
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: when it comes to witchcraft, you're much more better off
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: going to you.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: As I think, well, none of the other stores focus
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: on which, yeah, I guess right, I think they. I
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: think they purposely avoid that.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: So I wonder what they thought about me when I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: walked in.
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean those, but well, my biggest competitor, the
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: Crystal Shop in town, has been here since way before
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: I was and I used to go, oh yeah, and
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: I used to go in there and shop and ask
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: for witchcraft related things to support my practice. And let's
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: just say that the message was pretty clear that that
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: was not we were not a community. They were interested
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: in cert Wow. Really pretty specifically.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Is that the one that looks like a house. It
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: looks like a house. It doesn't even look like a business.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: Okay, they're pretty new, they're not. They're nice folks. I
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: don't know them very well. But no, that's that's there
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: a crystal shop. No, I'm talking about the one that's
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: over in Arlingtonville. Oh okay, yeah, yeah, they're the they'd
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: like to do the new age thing, but a long
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: time ago they decided that they weren't interested in witchcraft, occultism, paganism.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: So I actually opened my store as a direct reaction
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: to being rejected by those people.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: That's nice. Yeah, that's uh yeah.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: If I don't know how many listeners I have in
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: North Carolina or anywhere near Greenville. But if you're into
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: this stuff, I highly suggest to go to her store.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: It's a really nice.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: Place downtown on Evans Street, opened seven days a week now.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: And it isn't a great spot too, tell you the
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: truth of you. A lot of stuff in that area,
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: very nice area of Greenville. So, Michelle, when was it
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: that you realize like, this is what I'm going to
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: be into, Like this is my deal, witchcraft or whatever
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: you call whatever you're into.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: When when did that happen?
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: I think, like most folks who are into this, we
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: always sort of knew, you know. I think I think
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: it's an orientation. It's like you just come into the world.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: You just know things, and it takes a while maybe
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: to figure out what it is that other adult human
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: beings call it. But once you find out that it
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: is a movement, that it is, you know, and I
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: do mean occultism, I mean the people who understand that
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: there is the mysterious underlayer of everything and you're aware
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: of that and what you're being fed is what is reality,
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: the consensus reality of culture. And I mean I was
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: a little kid going nah, nah, that's not it. But
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: of course I was raised in the Southern Baptist Evangelical
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: Christian where you know, there was only the one right way.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: I was going to say it was that an influence
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: and you kind of looking all the ways.
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean that's how you find that's why
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: you go looking for what are what else is out here?
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Because I was so depressed as a kid, I was like, man,
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: if this is the way, if this is the truth,
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: if this is the only one option I've got, I'd
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: rather just check out now because I cannot participate in this.
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: And so, you know, you get old enough you can
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: go to the library by yourself or whatever. And of course,
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: mind you, I'm talking about the seventies in the eighties,
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: there's no internet there, you know, so well, you know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: you finally found out what else is out there? And
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, now, that was the one right thing.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: I knew. That was the thing I knew all along.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: I just didn't know what it was called. And you know,
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: it seems like reincarnation because I was one of those
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: weirdo kids that remembers my past life. I always have,
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: and I I would have like PTSD like reactions as
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: a small child to as if I had been in
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: a terrible cataclysm some some traumatic thing. And I remember
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: dying in World War Two. I didn't know it was
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: World War Two until I got old enough to study
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: those things and recognize things. But I died being crushed
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: under the rubble of a building that was bombed out.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: And so I have PTSD like reactions to similar situations,
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: you know. And so it took me a while to
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: figure all that out and then do the actual spiritual
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: journey work to discover it more specifically. But I'm also clairvoyant,
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: just naturally. There's lots of things about me that made
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: me very weird as a child and rejected for my
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: weirdness as a child. And then I finally find out
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: what it's all called. You know, the words reincarnation and
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: the word you know, things that make sense. And so
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: I started pursuing this and knowing what it was at seventeen. Oh, Okay,
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: to answer your question. Originally, it took me a while
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: to get there. Until then I thought it. I just
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: called it the religion of Michelle. And then I found
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: out that it already is an established thing, and it
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: was just you know, occultism really well something.
• 10:57
  Speaker 7: That's an interesting aside. Like we talked to Ronnie Pontiac
• 11:01
  Speaker 7: yesterday and he was talking about Manly P. Hall and
• 11:03
  Speaker 7: his interactions with him, and it seemed like Manley PA
• 11:06
  Speaker 7: Hall's journey was because the Internet didn't exist and he
• 11:09
  Speaker 7: couldn't find these sources really readily. Is the Internet taking
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: adventure out of the self discovery process?
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: That's a good question. I'll tell you what it was
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: a lot harder to find this stuff is. I was
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: raised in Taylor, South Carolina. I didn't really find this
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: stuff till I got out of South Carolina. I went
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: as far away to college as I could possibly go,
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: and I had it in my head that if you
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: wanted to find witches you had to go to New England.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: Mind you, I was seventeen. What is a girl from
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: South Carolina who was raised under her Southern Baptist rock.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: I had no idea I got to go to New England.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: So I go to college in Vermont and the very
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: first things I'm looking for and I find this really
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: awesome hippie dude who's wearing a pinnacle and I like
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: attack him. I'm like, oh, tell me everything you know.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: And he's still a friend of mine to this day.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: But I was finally able to get some books. I
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: was able to order some titles of things from my
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: school bookstore that I had not been able to get
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: my hands on in South Carolina that I couldn't have
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: had in the house because of my mother basically being,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: you know, the security forces for Jesus, you know, and
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: making sure that nobody thought a free thought otherwise. So anyway,
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: once I got away, I was able to figure it out,
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: and that's really when the journey began. But man, it
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: was hard to find it. And you mentioned mainly, p Hall,
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: I have got a treasure right behind me where I
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: can grab it. Look at this. This is the Secret
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: Teaching of All Ages, the fiftieth anniversary edition about one.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: This is one of my treasures of my of my library.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: I love this thing I found. Oh I do bibliomancy
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: with this when I'm like, oh, I'm bored, let's learn
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: something new today.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Just fit nice.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: Oh and hey, look the elements in their inhabit So
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: that would be how I first discovered that and then
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: ultimately wrote a book about it.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: So I guess I know you kind of mentioned did
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: anybody have any questions or ask anything before I go?
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: You wanted to ask, are you solitary? Is there a
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: particular tradition that you follow within witchcraft? Good question. Uh, well,
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: it's kind of a both in that I wasn't trained
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: in any particular tradition. I've had many mentors through the
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: years who were also more like solitary at that point
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: and taught me a lot, but never in that formalized
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: teacher mentee where I was ultimately initiated, because everybody I
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: studied with, regardless of if they had their own like
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: old school priestess initiation, were choosing not to do that
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: at that point, like they felt like the initiates should
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: go to directly to Divinity, should received their initiation directly
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: from Divinity. They would teach me everything they need, but
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: they left that stuff between me and the gods. And
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: so ultimately that's how I got there, is me being stubborn,
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: just banging on the door of the mysteries until I
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: was let in one one way or another, and then
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: I I kind of rallied all the rest of the
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: folks who were looking for information. I passed on what
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: I had been taught by individuals and what I had
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: been reading. But as it happens, because just about everything
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: in my astrological chart has to do with mercury virgo here,
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: you know mercury there, I teach. That's what I do.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: I talk about things. I am very analytical. I can
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: then summarize and communicate it. That's one of my strengths.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: And I was called to share that by my guides,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: like do what you gotta do to share this? So
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: I have been teaching about it for so long that
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: eventually you get other folks around you, and now we
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: all consider ourselves self initiated solitary witches who then want
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: to team up. And then that became a coven, which
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: then became a formal training program which went on for
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: more than a decade, which now has second degree people
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: who've chosen to initiate to the clergy status and then
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: third degree. And it's just like self made, so so
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: the no and that I was a solitary eclectic self taught,
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: which then I taught that so long that it became
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: its own codified tradition with its so many initiates that
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: then hung around together and continued to teach and bring
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: you know, we coagulated all this information together into what
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: became known as the Sojourner Tradition of modern witchcraft, and
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: then that was formalize. We had a coven that operated
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: for over a decade. I was the founding high priestess.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: I served for five or six of the ten or
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: twelve years that it operated. It most recently decided to
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: go on. We went on a hiatus after the whole
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: COVID thing shut down the teaching program, and we did
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: continue on for a long time, but a lot of
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: our main members moved away and we kind of the
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: core group was a little small, and we just decided
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: to take a break for a while. So it's not
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: currently operating, but it does still exist, and there are
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: initiates all over the country that self initiated us through
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: our training program. And then that training program that I
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: taught for those ten years became became part of this book.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: The program is ultimately going to be revealed through all
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: three of the books in the Pinnacle Path, but only
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: some of it. And then of course once I wrote
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: the books, I add so much more, because you know,
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: when you teach Wika one on one or witchcraft, it's
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: not really wika. When you teach witchcraft one oh one
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: for ten straight years, your soul just is dying to
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: get into deeper stuff and go other places. I mean,
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: it's important to teach the beginning stuff to new students.
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: But it was in my private work and then my
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: private work with the coven later on in those who
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: stuck around, and we really taught each other a lot,
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: and we continued to just move forward in the mysteries,
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: each person bringing their own interest into the pot. It
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: was like a cauldron of ideas. And the books themselves
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: are very different than the program was when I taught it.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: But we had to shut down the teaching program on
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: Thursday nights out of the shop. We had to shut
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: that down in March of the well, actually I think
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: we made it through May online and then we just
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: stopped the teaching program and it's not been I've been
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: held in person since then. But I'm getting ready to
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: reopen my classroom again. I'm really excited about that.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: And you used to do that right out of the
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: store or no, oh yeah, oh.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would pack twenty people into that big central room.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: Mind you you saw it well after it had been
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: turned mostly into retail space. Its original concept was that
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: it was a community center, a teach a place where
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: people could have meetings, and we held rituals and community
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: events and meetups, et cetera. And it just had a
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: store in the front. After the whole COVID thing shut
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: down all the in person meetings, we really expanded the
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: retail to take up those spaces, because even after we
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: tried to reopen things in like twenty two or twenty three,
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: nobody would come. People were still too nervous. But I
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: think we're finally there and I'm reopening the old classroom
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: and so now it's a private reading space and I
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: read Taro every other Sunday out of the store, and
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: I do read the the Alistair Croley Deck, the Toat Deck,
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: which I know is something that you talk about a lot. Yeah,
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: that's that's that's what I do.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: I did notice you seemed interested when I did mention
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: to you, I was I used to be in the Oto.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I know you were like, oh oh okay, definitely.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: I mean when you told me that I knew what
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: I was dealing with.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I get it. Yeah, it goes yeah, that's funny.
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: I mean I mentioned the OTO in my book all
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: the time because I think people need to know where
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: these concepts come from. And even if you never study
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: the OTO, you don't know anything about Alistair Crowley or
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: nothing about Filema. You if you are in witchcraft, any flavor,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: especially Wicca, it is all flavored up with that. That
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: is the major spice in the soup. And even if.
• 19:48
  Speaker 7: Way I was going to cover Gerald Gardner and how
• 19:53
  Speaker 7: much he was taking from the OTO uh in a
• 19:56
  Speaker 7: in a program, but we never got a round to it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 7: But this is the perfect example. It's you know, it's
• 20:00
  Speaker 7: right there. Once you compare the two, you know Witchcraft
• 20:04
  Speaker 7: and OTO are pretty much inseparable.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: It's so well had he got a charter directly from Crowing.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: You said that in one of your episodes. I heard it.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: I had it playing on my TV and I was
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: like talking about Gardner. I was like, I haven't heard
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: too many people. I don't know a lot of witch grist.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: People don't like admitting that stuff for some reason. So
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: I was like surprised, I hear you say it.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: Gardner was the number one eclecticus of his time. I mean,
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: he just went around pulling what he found to be
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: relevant and interesting and useful from all of these places,
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: and to say otherwise is just ignorant of his story.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, I've read his biography. I know where he got.
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 20:48
  Speaker 7: And uh, what a friend I met way back in
• 20:51
  Speaker 7: the nineties, a guy named Isaac Bonowitz. He's he's a
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: legend and legend. Yeah, well he he started his whole
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: pursuit of druidry based off of what he was experiencing with,
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: you know, the Gardenerian witchcraft. So he was trying to
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: do a more accurate historical approach as opposed to the
• 21:13
  Speaker 7: eclectic approachship of Jerald Gardner.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: Oh sure, I mean, I'm definitely an eclecticist. I mean,
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: and that became an ugly word not you know, in
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: which current Oh you're an eclectic that's not to be
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: taken seriously. And I'm like, yo, I learned from the best,
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: you know, Daryl Gardner and Dreene Valiante, all of them.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: You know, let's just say that I've taken lesson from
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: their example, if not by their creed, of how to
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: go about hobbling together a meaningful personal practice without being
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: a slave to dogma. Because look, I came up in
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: the Southern Baptist Church. Anything starts to smack or oh
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: there's only one right way, or you're not allowed to
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: change anything or think a different thought, or you know,
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: I just immediately reject that, reject it, because.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, I love it.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: Well said, I know you kind of got into it
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: a little bit already, but like, I guess maybe you
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: want to talk a little bit before we get into
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: the book about like when did you have the idea
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: for the store?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know you kind of shy.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Two thousand and seven, my mother died passed away, and
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: it was it was right after my first initiation into
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: the craft, and in the second year of my studies,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: at the suggestion of my mentor, I dedicated my great
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: work of magic that year to exploring elemental fire. I
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: don't know if I recommend that for the second year
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: out of the gate to totally anyway. Lots of very
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: fiery things happened immediately talk about a tower year. Everything
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: that had held me back was script away, and of
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: the most challenging of those things was the sudden death
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: of an unexpected death of my mother. That's the tragic part,
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: the happy part of that story is the minute that
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: she crossed into spirit, so not like so she died,
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: she was brain dead, but she's still physically alive. Her
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: soul instantly came to me and started to speak to me.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: And like I said, I have a sort of a clairvoyant,
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: just natural clairvoyance that was pretty untrained at that point.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: And the minute she was in the spiritual world, released
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: from her mortal coil, all the biases and the bigotry,
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: all of the evangelical just madness fell away, and she
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: came to me and haunted me basically until I planned
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: her funeral the way she wanted it planned, and I
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: gave her eulogy. It said what she wanted to have
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: said at et cetera. And she haunted me for the
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: next five years, trying to help guide me from the
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: spiritual realm. So she became a spirit guide who completely
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: accepted my witchiness. I ended up taking what I had
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: gotten from her, her estate. She had a life insurance policy,
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: and I got some money. And you know, you play
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: everybody plays that game. What would you do if you
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: suddenly had a pot of money.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: I would open a metaphysical store, you know, No, Lie,
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: I was thinking, but I was like, I don't want
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: to take it to her to take this the wrong way.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: But I was even wondering if this was the situation
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: that she came into money that gave you the chance
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: to actually do this.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: I did. But moreover, she encouraged me to live authentically
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: as my true self, you know, the whole Christian thing.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: Don't lie hide your light under a bushel, you know.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: And of course they mean you should let people know
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: you're Christian or what you know, shine brightly who you
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: are and your faith, et cetera. Well she meant, only
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: if it's Jesus all day when she was alive. But
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: in spirit it was, I know who you are. You
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: need to shine. You need to be yourself. You need
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: to get out of your oppressive marriage. You need to that.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: And she wanted me to take that money and become myself,
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: become happy, to pursue relationships that support who I am
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: as a person who accept me fully as I am,
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: allow me to be sovereign, et cetera. The person she
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: was would have never preached those things ever, but in
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: spirit she did, and so she guided me and we
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: opened the store, and she basically was a resident spirit
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: at my store. Seen by countless mediums. People I don't know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: don't know anything about me, would come and go. You know,
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: there's the ghost of like a matronly mothery person around you, right,
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Eventually, with the help of
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: a medium, I helped her realize that it was okay,
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: she could go into the light. And she did move
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: on and has sense gone on onto her next adventure
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: and is no longer reported around me very often unless
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: I go and seek her out or call her in.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: But uh yeah, my mother helped me. My evangelical mother
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: helped me open that store. But it really was just
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: a bid for my personal sovereignty. And I was so
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: lonely in my feeling like I couldn't talk to anybody
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: about this. So there's no one to There's nowhere to go,
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: there's no places that cater to my interests. Where do
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: I find the people of like mind in Greenville, North Carolina?
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: And so I was like, you know, I don't want
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: to be lonely like that. I don't want to feel isolated,
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: and I don't want other people to feel isolated. So
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: I opened the store and I was like, it's got
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: to be on basically main Street, you know where we
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: are downtown on Evans Street is basically yeah, main street,
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: middle of town. I want it to be fully visible,
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: open the way a church stoor is open. People can
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: come in, talk to talk, find a book, find people
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: of like mind, find acceptance, and we try to cater
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: also to making sure that anybody that doesn't tread the
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: well traveled path, you know, which is that's our motto
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: is equipping the pathless traveled based on the Frost poem.
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: You know, I took the pathless traveled by and it's
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: made all the difference anybody who's on a different path,
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: whether that be their lifestyle or sexuality, or their religion
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: and philosophy, et cetera. I want those folks to know
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: that they are accepted as the divine beings that I
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: know they are, and we can just we can just
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: sort of band together a big rainbow parade, you know
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: of weirdos going down the road and broad daylight. So
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: that's been and so far it's been, it's gone.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: I've only had a few protesters before. Really well wow,
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: I've had a couple of funny stories, but really nothing
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: that you would expect you to. I mean, I know
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: that there are whole Sunday school groups preaching that we
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: are of the devil and everybody should should avoid us.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: But let me tell you what. The reason why I
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: know that is because people in those Sunday school rooms
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: or Bible studies or wherever they heard that at whatever church,
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: they come directly into the stores. Like I just found
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: out you were here because of my Sunday school told
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: me I was to boy caught you, and I'm so
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: excited you're here.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I had to go see. I know that is funny.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: It was working out wrong.
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: They're not doing themselves any favors on the spiritual warfare
• 28:44
  Speaker 7: in front.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: No, no, anyway, I got magic and all the rest.
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, they might have yahweh on their side, but
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: I got all the rest of the guys online.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: That's funny, all right.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: So what was uh? What was the first book you
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: ended up ever writing? What made you decide to start writing?
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: I am I've been writing since high school. I went
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: to a fine arts high school in Greenville, South Carolina
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: for creative writing.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: So then he moved to Greenville, North Carolina.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I love Greenville.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Apparently there's one in Tennessee too. You can check that
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: one out.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's one in every state of the Union.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: All right, so what would you I guess you forget
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: into the book? Where do you want to start with that?
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I guess, well, what what was it with this book
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: that you thought the community is missing? And I'm going
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: to give this to one with this book?
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: Okay?
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: That to put you like, I know, that might be
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: a tough question right away.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, no, because you're not the only
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: interviewer to ask me that question.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Good. Good, that's a good that's a good thing.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: I have got I have got an answer written out.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Can I just yeah, go for it?
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: All right? On the why did I write this book?
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: The book came out of a sense, my sense that
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: Western occultism had spent the last two hundred years perfecting
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: what I would I perceived of as division. It's the Coagula,
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, the salve salve at Cowagula. You know, let's
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: divide it, let's analyze it, let's put it in little
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: rows in a correspondence boxes. Let's figure out what planetary
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: sphere it belongs to, you know what I mean, like
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: to break it down, break it down. It was a
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: you know, it was with the swing into the patriarchy
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: that the last you know, two three thousand years have
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: been and that's a necessary phase. You know, that is
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: a part of that pendulum swing. It had been that
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: uh it was you know, they wanted to perfect division
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: and subclassification and the individual power. You know, how do
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: I apply my will you know the whole to will
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: you know, to know, to will, to dare to be
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: silent the whole thing. But that's perfecting your own your
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: own power, your own will. I just it's incomplete. And
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: my work individually, I was like, okay, well, I'm because
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: I study hermetics, I consider the kind of witchcraft I
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: I practiced to be hermetic witchcraft. And I was like,
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: all right, well, but there we have to restore the
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: other side of the swing. There's the coagula, you know,
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: there's salve a, there's coagula. There's there's this balance between
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: the polls that we have to come back. We have
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: to come back over away from the sexism that was
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: so died in the wall of the occultist Western esoterism
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: and occultism for the last couple hundred years. So anyway,
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: my work an Elemental Witchcraft is my attempt to answer
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: the next turn of the cycle, to return to integration,
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: to return to cooperation. I call it the cooperative culture
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: of witchcraft. I'd like to get back the magic, back
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: into embodied oneness with Divinity and the world, not a
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: separateness from the world the way you know, and Christianity
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: really wants to separate you from the world. Wiches are
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: of the world. We are the ones here in the
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: middle loving the material world looking sideways, you know. Some
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: religions look up all the heavens all the time, angelic beings,
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: the gods, the god's gods. Others want to look down
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: into the underworld and get all deep into the shadows
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: and the spirits and the ancestors, et cetera, which is
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: really do balance these There's a time and a place
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: for all of that. But we're trying to live right
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: here in the middle world and enjoy this, enjoy embodiment.
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: So I see the move into the Aquarian age needs
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: a new approach to all of these things, a new embodied, lived,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: practical lifestyle type philosophy that serves a modern world as
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: opposed to looking backwards and trying to figure out how
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: the ancients did it. I do want to be informed
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: by what we know about how the ancients did things.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: But I don't want to slavishly recreate that like an anachronist.
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: You know, I'm not. That's not what I'm interested in.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: So I was trying to apply everything I know about,
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: all that ancient tech, all that philosophy, all the things
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: we knew before the what I call the invasive orthodoxies
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: marched through the world, and you know, at the edge
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: of a sword or a torch or a pitchwork or whatever,
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: force the old ways, the old knowledge that was more
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: nature based, force that underground. I want to excavate that,
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: but I want to find a way to meld that
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: in an alchemical way with with the modern world to
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: make a meaningful, fulfilling, happy, pleasurable modern life. That's a
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: very long answer, but that's why I wrote the book.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: No, I've even been saying on the show, well, I
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: think we all said it here in different ways, Like
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: it does seem like it's just I think the old
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: way of looking at this stuff just isn't it's not working,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: or I think it could work better.
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, these are snapshots of time that the people
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: that were thinking about them, and they're important, But you
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: got to keep it in historical context.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: That's a good way to put it.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: I mean, I look at the things that like Alistair
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: Crowley or Gerald Gardner or Alexander Sanders or whatever, and
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: and and then the women that they were counterparts to
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: those movements during Valiante and Maxine Sanders, et cetera. And
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: you know, there are jewels there, things that they were
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: really figuring out that though that's good, that's good, and
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: it might be in a whole pile of shit that
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: was just patriarchy and sexism. And you know, old rich
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: white dudes, you don't have any idea how it really,
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: you know, is for the rest of the world. And
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: you have to sift all that out to get the
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: jewels that are worth keeping in the modern world, and
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: also understand the context of where they were living and
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: how they their perspective, their their lived experience. And you know,
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: those were not necessarily better times, so we can we
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: can adjust. I think we need to adjust.
• 35:43
  Speaker 7: Even in what mostly consider like a patriarchal Viking era,
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: you know Heathen read context, women played a much more
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: important role within the functions of society that a lot
• 35:56
  Speaker 7: of people don't recognize. It's it's a different way of
• 35:59
  Speaker 7: looking at it from a pagan perspective. And I think
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: we're just tired of the division.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 36:04
  Speaker 7: It's it's there are better forms of authority, Yes, and
• 36:08
  Speaker 7: handed exactly.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: Well, you know the what I so I liked. I
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: love words, words, and my thing, like I said, it's
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: if you if you look at my astrological chart, I
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: lean so heavily towards mercury and air. And so I
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: will make up a word. I will make up a term.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: I'll coin a term, and here we are. So rather
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: than referring to the the baneful aspects of religion by
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: a specific religion's name, because we know you can't paint
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: one group or one philosophy with one broad stroke and
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: apply like they are all bad. This was all damaging.
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: That's not fair. So rather than saying the Abrahamic religions
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: or Christianity or whatever, I will say that any group
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: that invades the minds the lands where they are not native, threatens,
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: does harm, It stills fear and tells people that there's
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: only one right way. It is their way, and if
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: they do not comply with their way and they're thinking,
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: et cetera, that they will be harmed. That's extortion. I
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: call those the invasive orthodoxies. They tend to be patriarchal.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: They tend to use the technologies of fear, domination, violence,
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: fear of death, et cetera. They they weaponize their philosophy.
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: I call those the invasive, invasive orthodoxies, and they have
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: done terrible damage to the world over the last thousands
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: of years. However, there is an other way. It is
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: a more egalitarian way. It's some of the ancient cultures,
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: especially what we have to dig up from way way
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: way back, like go Beckley Teffe and that kind of thing.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: Anthropologies digging back up. It's not like they were matriarchal cultures.
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: They were God is revering, but they tended to be
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: more egalitarian, and they focused on the technologies of creation,
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: of agriculture, building, of bringing people together, et cetera. And
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: they venerated life as opposed to venerating death. And so
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: they focused on the mechanisms of creation and creativity and
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: art and et cetera. And those are what I call
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: the cooperative cultures or partnership cultures. And there's lots of
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: anthropologists who have studied these things from the ancient world.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: It's where we get a lot of our understanding of
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: the ancient, know, the really the really ancient cultures. And
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: people want to call them matriarchies, but they weren't. They
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: weren't they They revered and respected, and they were more egalitarian,
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: not perfect though there was. There's nothing in the past
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: we can be like, Oh, that's the perfect utopia, we
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: should go back to that. I don't think we should
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: ever go back to anything. I think we should move forward.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: So that's what I'm trying to do. It's like, all right, well,
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: understanding all that, we're going to need to have a
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: new ethos We're going to need a new tech of
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: how do we embody and live this this magical, this
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: philosophical way. How do we live that every day in
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: our regular lives, as we parent our children, as we
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: go to work, as we I don't know, drive around town.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: How do we take care of our lives now and
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: build a better world. To me, that's the great work
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: of alchemy.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: We're supposed to be evolving towards our oneness again while
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: also exploring and revering our individuality, our diversity. We're here
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: to be diverse, to have diverse experiences to bring back
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: to the woodenness. But there just doesn't need to be
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: all this divisiveness. And that's what I'm working on, is
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: just figuring out who we are as people with these
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: philosophies informed by hermetics and alchemy, and then applying that
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: to a real world, Middle world magic and lifestyle, which
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: is the witchcraft part.
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: So is that where the Solar Book comes from. This
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: recognition of this creative principle being so important right now, Well, I'm.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: Working on that now. I'm just at the beginning phases
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: of that, but it will touch on the seasonal sabbath
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: cycles and how this sort of agricultural themes that we
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: think of in paganism and the Sabbots, how those are
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: played out in our ritual forms and our mythology. But
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: it does bring the focus back to the God. We're
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: not you know, the witchcraft that I practice is not
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: solely about the goddess. We have to have the God
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: in there too, but it brings it's a focus on
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: the yang side of things, whereas Lundar witchcraft is a
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: focus on the yen side of things. Elemental was the earth, air, fire, water,
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: and spirit like a pencacle to get this middle world
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: self is to get our middle world self all in
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: balance and empowered so that we can then handle dealing
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: with divinity individually.
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: So I don't know if that answers your question, but
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: it does reweave it back in but without focusing on
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: it first. Does that help answer your questionnaires?
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Aertributed Yes, thank you.
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: Okay, I'm just starting my work on that. I wanted
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: to ask too.
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: I know, like we're really late into it for this,
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: but could you define elemental magic?
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, so it's not too late,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay. So you know, the five points of the pinnacle, earth, air, firewater,
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: and spirit, microcosm to macrocosm. Right, the world, the middle
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: world that we know of, woven together by the essences
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: of the four elements. This is very platonic. This is
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: definitely you know, from the Old Greeks and then how
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: they came into Alexandria Egypt and blended with the Egyptian
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: ideas which became hermetics. What goes way back to all
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: of that, but the notion that in the world has
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: made up of five elemental essences, the spirit of that
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: also has a material component. So the elements are the
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: spirit of water, the spirit of air, the spirit of earth,
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: the spirit of fire. Then there are the material aspects
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: of it too, that which we can see and learn
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: from here in the Middle World. But when Divinity passes
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: down through the seven celestial spheres of influence, which is
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: the way of bringing in astrology to become something new
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: in the Middle World, it passes through those five planes
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: of you know, the elemental planes, and then that gets
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: cast into form here in the Middle World as the
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: physical thing. And at the root of hermetic alchemy is
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: the notion that everything that exists in the cosmos has
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: a spirit, has a soul, has a body, and those
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: things are woven together as they pass through these elemental essences.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: So the Middle world is the casted projection, kind of
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: like a hologram, hologram being like a projection of light
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: that seems like it's three D. That's the casting into
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: the illusion of our separateness as individual things. But what
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: makes them are these elemental essences. And the reason why
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: the Pentacle star is the symbol for the perfect balanced
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: integration of all five of those things, and we call
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: that like a symbol of the microcosm and the macrocosm,
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: and they reflect like a mirror image of each other.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: And so the magic that WICCA employs, as well as
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: alchemy and well any magical system it has to is
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: is focused somehow on creating this reality and accordance with
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: our will and tapping into these forces in various ways
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: with various techniques to weave together what it is that
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: we desire in the world. And so it's the very
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: foundational building block elements of both the world and magic.
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: Which is a long answer, but that's why so many
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: people will call on earth, air, firewater, and spirit in
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: their magic and then relate them to cardinal points or
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: points within the circle, because you have to have all
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: of those essences working together in alignment with each other
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: and flowing in accordance to your will to create that change.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: Was that too much or not enough of an answer? No,
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: that was such a good answer. Thank you so much.
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: You're welcome. So yeah, that's and to me, it's the
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: middle world reality. Like it's also, fire is your will,
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: Air is your mind or your mental state, Water is
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: your emotional state in your relationships. Earth is obviously the
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: physical body, the physical needs of the body. Spirit is
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: that in that part of you that is eternal, that
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: is part of divinity, that spark of divinity within you,
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: and that is net cannot be destroyed ever, all right.
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: So that's who we are. And so I start with
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: elemental witchcraft because if you're going to be a magical practitioner,
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: and my God, if you go back and read anything
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: from Eliphas Levi, who is the one that you know,
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: the French occultist, the Cobblists that gave us the idea
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: of the four powers of the sphinx. You know, to know,
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: to will, to dare, to be silent, you have to
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: master the four elements in your own life first before
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: you can do any of the higher level things of
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: interacting with angelic beings or spirits, are you know, individual divinities,
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: et cetera. You have to make yourself strong and balanced first. Unfortunately,
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: so many folks want to go straight to the psychism,
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: the clairvoyance, the working with higher angelic beings, et cetera.
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: And if they don't have their own shit straight, they
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: don't have the head on turned on straight, they don't
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: have their hearts straight. If they're emotionally immature or so
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: physically decrepit because of the toxins or the poisons or
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: the illnesses of the body. They just blow a fuse
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: when they try to do the higher level things. So
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: I start in this middle world, like, just figure our
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: lives out, figure out who we are, figure out what
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: we think, figure out what our personal will is, what
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: is our divine will? What is our sacred purpose? Here
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: that's the fire. Figure out our relationships and to divine
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: love that is the cosmos. How do we figure out
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: how to be a human being here in the middle
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: of an adult, mature human being before we start doing magic.
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: There are a lot of emotionally immature occultists in the world.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Have y'all noticed, Oh yeah, I.
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: Mean there's a fair view just saying and yet they're
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: doing They might be doing some really powerful work, but
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: I don't know that their lives are improved by that work.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one thing that should happen. My life should
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: get better. Everything to an extent, hold like what are
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: you doing for?
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: So anyway, I just try to start there, like, you know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: get yourself straight. And then the next work, the one
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: that I'm so excited about working on now is the
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: Learner witchcraft. That's the deep dive into the underworld, the
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: astral realm, psychism and past lives and divination and working
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: with the goddess and really getting it deep into the
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: fields feelings. You know, it's like a taking a deep
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: swim and the cauldron of the goddess. Man, you really
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: got to have your life straight before you start doing
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: that shadow work. So that's the second book, and I work.
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: I've been appealed to twelve different goddesses, one for each
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: zodiac sign to be called in during the various lunar
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: phases when the moon is in those signs, to help
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: bring those powers to balance out the the let's see
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: the benefits and the challenges of each element during those
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: lunar phase because in the moon being associated with water
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: so heavily, and so the calling a goddess in to
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: help to balance that out and to really fine tune
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: the balances we have within ourselves. That's what I've been
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: working on this year, and I'm so excited about it
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: about that work coming out. Again, I ramble, Sorry, i
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: think I've left the point long ago.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: No, you're good, You're good, thank you.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: Anyway, One thing I did want to ask when you
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: get into, you know, doing your own stuff, if you
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: were to do elemental magic, do you do like ritual
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: work and stuff?
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: Oh sure, yeah, wickens are all about the ceremonial magic.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: All right, So I didn't want to kind of maybe
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: put you on the spot. But like, if let's say
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: you were to work with the element of fires, since
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: you brought it up, would you kind of give people
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: an idea like how everything would be set up for that?
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: Oh sure, like even like maybe like I don't know,
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: like for me, like depending on what I used to
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: work with Planetaria elemental you know, I'd have the herbs
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: that match, at the crystals that match, and maybe even
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: change my old the cloth which wearing something, you know,
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: get extra all that stuff. You know, I'm wondering if
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: you did the same or however you did it. However,
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: if you can maybe give us just a little bit of.
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: An idea, okay, sure, So just as an example in
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: my book, I have five paths that you walk during
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: the certain seasons of the year, and you work specifically
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: with that element very heavily. And so while you're working
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: with fire, just use that as an example. Planetary stuff,
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: any of the stuff that comes from the old occultist
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: correspondence tables, et cetera. All the ALcom obile with all
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: that stuff is yes, yes, pull all that in so yes,
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: red orange, yellow on your aldercloth. Things that have to
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: do with salamander, dragons, et cetera, very you know, very fiery,
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: desert y. You want the stones that associate with the
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: sun or mars, the herbs that want to associate that
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: way also, so I would have oh gosh, if I'm
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: burning incense, and I do a lot of formulary, I
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: provide all these recipes and everything is I mean, I
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: create candles and incense blends that you burn on charcoal,
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: so I'd have cinnamon and orange and clove and oak,
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: et cetera, frankincense that all have those fiery things, and
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: you're layering it up. And each time that you employ
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: one of these material allies, you tap into the spirit.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: Because again we get back to that ol chemical notion
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: that everything that exists in the world has a soul,
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: a spirit, and a physical body. So it's not just
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: that I've got the body of a frankincense nugget. I
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: need to tap into, awaken and partner with the spirit,
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: the soul of franking sense, which is aligned on another
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: cosmic level with the celestial sphere of the Sun, or
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: I could do the same with anything having to do
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: with Mars, and that would get me closer to fire. Also,
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: we work heavily with the elemental beings in which in
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: Wick and Witchcraft, so the God, I mean not the God,
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: the elemental king, gen and the salamanders are the elemental
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: beings that that embody, that essence, that do the work
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: of that essence in the world. They would spur energy physical,
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: the physical exercise, aspects of things, the ecstasy of passion
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: and sexuality. They would really get shit done. And so
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: that whole time you want to be tapping into the
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: power of your muscles and the Sun and the fire
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: and the Mars and them, and you would call upon
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: those beings to help reveal what is the work of
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: your will. Let should be the sacred work of your
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: will at that time. And we work heavily with this,
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: you know, to will on the whole sphinx or the
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: pyramid of power, depending on your tradition. But also because
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: I'm restoring the goddess's tools, the receptive tools, back to
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: the old patriarchal occultism, in heavily heavily, heavily. In my book,
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: we talk about the jewel of power in old witchcraft
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: from fifty years ago, one hundred years ago, or the
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: wick from you know, pretty recent times, they would talk
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: about the pyramid of power, to know, to will, to dare,
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: to be silent. But there are receptive powers also that
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: were first named by a Wickan, a Guarnerian Wickan high
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: priest who's also a psychoanalyst in his day job. His
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: name is Timothy Roderick, and he taught that there were
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: the receptive lessons of each element. Also because everything has
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: yin and yang. So the pyramid of power that we know,
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: or the sphinx of power from ELFs Levi, was all
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: the masculine aspects. They were all project the projective aspects
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: of the elements. But what's the opposite of to know? Well,
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: the goddess's tool for that is to wonder, to release knowing,
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: and to ask new questions. What's the So then there's
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: to will that's applying your will to the world, like
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: you're the fire being applied as the catalyst to the world. Well,
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: what's the opposite of that is to surrender? You are
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: the fuel on the fire. What's the opposite of to dare,
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: which is the water overflowing the emotion. I'm going to
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: dare to be courageous and go out there and apply
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: my will and my feelings on the world. What's the
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: opposite of that? It's to accept the emotional conditions or
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: accept the situation that you're in. And then what's the
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: opposite of just to sit still, to be silent and
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: to wait in expectation of the outcome. The opposite of
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: that is to resonate, to set the new tone for
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: the world. So the Goddess's tool for Earth is to
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: resonate a new intention and then to draw something new,
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: create something new into the world. Okay, so we work
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: heavily with those things too. So while I'm working with fire,
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: I would not only try to figure out what is
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: my will in the world, what is the sacred divine
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: purpose for me that I should be applying my individual
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: will to accomplishing, but also what do I need to
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: surrender to those fires? What no longer serves me impedes
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: me in the same way that when a sword is
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: in the forge and it's being purified in the fires,
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: and all of it's the impurities, the weaknesses of the
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: metal are burned away, and what is what emerges from
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: those fires should be sharper, more finely honed, more rarefied,
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: better able to be wielded to for your will. So
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: I would work both angles there while also appealing to
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: the planetary sphears the gods that are very firing, like Mars,
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: et cetera. So that is a big long answer. But
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: when I but I would do those rituals in a
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: sacred circle and I would only call that element in
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: and then I would do a lot of deep journey
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: work with those ideas while layering up the crystals, the herbs,
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: the colors, the stones, et cetera, the full ceremonial magic gambit,
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: and I would I would ask to you to know
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: those questions. You know, how should I apply my will?
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: But also what do I need to give up and
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: then let myself surrender to those fires? Not an easy task.
• 57:12
  Speaker 7: Well, I think what you've done there is you've shown
• 57:15
  Speaker 7: your teaching method because you would be explaining the principles
• 57:18
  Speaker 7: behind why choosing these elements are important and then letting
• 57:21
  Speaker 7: people use their own discretion on how they want to
• 57:25
  Speaker 7: form the motif for themselves.
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's all about free will. It's all about you
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: designing your practice. I do. I do encourage folks who
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: who haven't done this kind of thing before to follow
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: the recipe at least once to see what it's supposed to.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: It's kind of like the map, you know, following a
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: map that some other explorer from one hundred years ago
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: left you, or even five years ago left you see
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: where it took them. But you have to acknowledge that
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: the landscape is different, their perspective is different, what they're
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: there to learn is different, and so you've got to
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: be able to, you know, make your adaptations to suit
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: you and your your needs. The whole point being to
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: remain open, receptive to the divine will in your life
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: and to your guides, your ancestors, et cetera, and how
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: they're nudging you along, remain in wonderment so that you
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: can form your own opinions, your own beliefs.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. I appreciate that answer.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's been times where I've kind of gone on
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: about that how I would get that extra But I
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: just wanted other people to know that that's not unusual,
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: you know, and you know, when they're only hearing it
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: from me constantly.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: You know it helps. They have somebody else as well.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: So what is there anything any of you? Just have
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: questions or anything you want to ask anybody else here?
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I wrote? So Judith, he list nothing, all right?
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Can you hear me?
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, So then you're you're kathonic. Sorry, your lunar book
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: not just kathonic.
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: I just oh, it's definitely cathonic.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: I guess could could you speak on that a little bit?
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Is that? Uh? I imagine a lot of deep diving
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: into the subconscious and maybe heckita hmm.
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So you want to know what goddess is I
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: picked for which for the signs?
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: If you don't mind, Oh no, I don't mind.
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: This is my jam and done devotional art for each
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: of them. Let me just give an example, okay, So
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: in my book, like this is an illustration from my book.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: The idea is to make candles. Right, this is my
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: triple Goddess one. I've got like a maiden mother crone
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: thing going on here because an elemental I try to
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: keep it just to the archetypes, into the yen and
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: the young. I've got a triple god one too, all right, so,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: but for a lunar witchcraft, what I suggest doing is
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: creating a sanctuary candle for each divinity that you're working with.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: And I've selected well, I've appealed to various goddesses and
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: asked if they would help to balance that. So it's
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: not like this is me making a choice of saying, Okay,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: I think that the strengths of this goddess helped to
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: balance the weaknesses of this sign. Does that make sense.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: It's not like they're necessarily the embodiment of the sign.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: I just feel like they'd be helpful in overcoming the
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: challenges of each sign.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: You know, I used to just real quick, I used
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: to like with it was kind of like planetary magic
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: or maybe a little bit more into kabbala, but I
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: would use like venus and net sock to kind of
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: combat my over mars and areas. Yes, you know what
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: I'm saying, because I'm definitely in aries like I need
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: to combat that.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: I get into the kabbala a lot in lunar witchcraft.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: I don't I hardly mention it directly in elemental but
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: it's still it's there if you know it's there, but
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: it's I finally mentioned it broach the subject of how
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: this is, how this layers up in the Kabbala. But anyway, okay,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: so for let me start at the beginning Aries, I
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: call on Athena, but I'm also working in the book
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: works on the six axes that are formed across the
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: zodiacal wheel of the year, because whatever is opposite works
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: in tandem, so there are six pairings, and in astrology
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: those are referred to as the axes. There's some axis
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: of human consciousness that must be balanced and is paired
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: across the zodiacal wheel. Aris is paired across the wheel
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: to Libra. I chose to stay for the most part
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: within Pantheons. So I call Athena for Ares, hopefully bringing
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: her wisdom as a means to offset the sort of
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: violence of Mars. I guess in the potentially in Ares,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: offset to that is Libra. And I call Aphrodite as
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: a goddess, because you know, Libra is ruled by Venus.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: But I chose her Greek form for that sort of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: grace and beauty and relationship. And so I've got Ares
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: in Ephrodite.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: There.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: Then for Taurus, I've I've got Venus, the Roman sexy Venus,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: paired with across the wheel. In Scorpio, I've chose I
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: wanted to appeal to Persephone as how I normally think
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: of her, but because I'm using the Roman name Venus,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: I've chosen the Roman name Proserpina as queen of the underworld,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: to help guide the Scorpio side of that. And then Gemini,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: I go into the Celtic goddesses. The ones that appeal
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: to me for Gemini is Caroduin and her cauldron and
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: the wisdom of her cauldron and the little bits of
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: analytical sort of knowledge that go into her cauldron that
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: ultimately feed into wisdom. But then on the other side
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: of the wheel we have Sagittarius that balances that, and
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: for that I choose the goddess Brigid at the forge,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: the very fiery forge aspects of the Celtic Goddess Brigid.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: Then we get down into Cancer and Capricorn that lie
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: across from each other. This is where, in a little
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: off script, I had to do because it's not the
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: same pantheon. When I first thought of doing this, the
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: very like ooh I could do, I could I could
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: approach the lunar work this way The very first goddess
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: who barreled into my consciousness about blew me over is
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: the Arisha goddess Yamaya for Cancer. I have a relationship
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: with Yamaya that I don't think about as often as
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: some of the others because I'm I'm I'm, I'm a
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: dedicand to Aphrodite and Hermes personally. But Yamaya wanted to
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: be there. She's powerful now, But who wants to be
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: on the other side of that. I don't really have
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: a relationship with any of the other Arisha's not in
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: the same way. But the goddess that came barreling in
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: for Capricorn was Khalima of Hinduism, and the two wanted
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: to work together there, at least for my perception. So
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: I've got Khalima as this sort of Saturnian goddess of
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: time creation and destruction right there where winter Solstice crosses,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: you know, from Sagittarius and the Capricorn. We've got her
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: as that liminal character, a mother and destroyer across the
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: wheel there. So that's Cancer and Capricorn. And then for Leo,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: I end up in Egypt. I have a very special
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: relationship with the goddess Bastet. She was originally seen in
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: a very lion leonine sort of way. She was a
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: warrior protector for the god rab So very Sun, very Leo.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: But as Egyptian, as time went on in Egypt and
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: she came more associated with domestic things and protection of
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: children and joy and music and dance and sexuality and
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: all of that sort of happy pleasure stuff, her name
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: shifted to Bastet. So I'm specifically going with Bastett for
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: Leo and joyfulness and creativity and music and dance and
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: family and home and hearth, et cetera, with Leo across
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: the wheel for Aquarius. And this is inspired by the
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: Crowley and Frieda Harris Toath deck their Aquarius. The star
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: card is said to be nut and using specifically that
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: that Crowley spelling of nut as nuit, which is the
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: French word for night, for that goddess who is the
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: vault of heaven, the the connecting constellation of stars for
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: which we're all apart, that helps to ferry you into
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: the afterlife, et cetera. So another other like fear. So
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: those are my goddesses, my twelve goddesses. I also have
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: a Gaya as just like a general all purpose to
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: work with that planetary system of Gaya and the moon.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: But if you notice, it's lunar witchcraft, but none of
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: those are specifically lunar goddesses. There's enough books out there
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: about lunar goddesses, there's plenty, there's thousands. I feel like
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: he was covered.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 7: So I've been noticing a lot that people just sort
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 7: of pass over the idea that space is feminine, right,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 7: So you've got father time and mother space, and like,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 7: we talk about space goddesses all the time, and it's
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 7: really at the heart of the understanding of this duality
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 7: in our cosmosis, that the interaction between time and space,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 7: and everybody focuses on this sort of yaoistic Saturnian character.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 7: It is this Chrono, but very rarely do they match
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 7: that up with Raya. Like you just hear about Cronos,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 7: very little about ray and Raya goes back through Kayballei
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 7: and back to the very very agent past and it's
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 7: right there as the space goddess. And then you see
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 7: that as Nix and knew it and all these other
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 7: very very early representations.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I do have in lunaritchcraft and mind you,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: this is only in first draft. It's with my editor
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: right now, so who knows what it'll be when it
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: comes back. But right now I do have a deep
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: look at all the goddesses that are associated with the
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: moon and all those ancient texts, and I do go
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 4: very deeply into rayas and that role there. Yeah, so
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: it's interesting. Even in my own process of writing the book,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: I ended up the section three is all the practical
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: magic stuff sections one and two or you know, information
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: and et cetera. But the third part art is time
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: to astrology. You know what phase of them, what phase
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: of the moon, but also what sign is the moon
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: and what season, et cetera. And really looking at the
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: mechanism of our cosmos has this magical It's like a
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: machine and it's moving in these predictable ways, and there
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: are times when certain things are so much easier to
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: accomplish because the whole cosmos is flowing with that purpose
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: at that time. And it's interesting to me that as
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: I was writing the book, I can think and work
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: academically and like, oh, look, historically, these are all these
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: goddesses and ideas and mythologies and stories that associate with
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: these ideas. But then when I got to section three,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: who do we actually work with? Who's the actual magic
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: with ended up being a whole different thing because I
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: just sort of let spirit flow through. That's the clairvoyant
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: thing too. It's kind of like everything I do at
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: some point becomes almost like automatic writing, because once I
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: tap in and just going, it just flows through. And
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: it's that image of the star card I think about.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: You know, she's holding the arth or touching this divine
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: access to information that is everything and everywhere, and then
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: she's flowing through and she's pouring it out on the earth.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: I think about that a lot. I've got a lot
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: of Aquarius in my chart obviously, but I see that
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: as as my job when I write, And like I said,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: I do have a close devotional relationship with Hermes. It's
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: just always been the way. And so I get to
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 4: go in and he sort of takes over hermeis take
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 4: the wheel. I don't mean for it to be like that,
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: but I'm his priestest, so what can I say. That's
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: what happens. He'll get his moment in solar witchcraft. He's
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: one of the gods. I do the same thing in
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: solar I'm assigning a god to help with each of
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: the signs, and then the Sabbaths, of course, would either
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: be with the god that's the fixed midpoint of that
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: sign or the transition the diad of two gods working
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: together to help transition from one to the next. So
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: I'm doing the same there, and Hermes is definitely on
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: that list too.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: I like how you did use like like I was
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: saying before, sometimes I wouldn't always kind of work on
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: that sphere of that idea, but that I thought I
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: was having problems with that we use something else like
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: you're saying. You were using the opposite basically, you know.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: That's very interesting. I haven't seen too many people and
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: not bringing because I did it that way. I just
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: didn't see too many people do it like that.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: We have to you have to continuously remind yourself that
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: everything has a yen and a yang, everything has the
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: outward flowing the inward flowing. Everything that has a light
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: cast a shadow. So even so, there's nothing in the
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: cosmos that's all easy or all challenge, or all good
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: or all bad. It it has to be balanced. That's
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: its point. And so when I work with the sabbots.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: This is part of my ceremonial magic practice. It's not
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: just the Sabbat I'm in. I acknowledge that on the
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: other side of the wheel there are the opposite is
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: what is going on. And I call this the philosophy
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: of the poison and the antidote, and I work with
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: this in all of my things. The poison from one
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: the moment you're in. The antidote to that poison is
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: found in the strengths of the thing on the opposite
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: side of the wheel or on the other side. If
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: I'm dealing with one of the poisons presented by a
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: very projective or masculine energy in something, how do I
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: balance that? I have to find what is the strength
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: of the goddess that helps to nurture that. If I'm
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: dealing with the negative of the goddess something or the
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: receptive aspect that is challenging on this side, how do
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: I cure that that poison? I got them distill an
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: antidote from the opposite side. So what does the God
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 4: bring to this situation at his strength? It's the you
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: know what I mean? And so that's how I do everything.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: If I'm working so like when we're working the lunar stuff.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: You know this, When the sun is in one side,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: the full moon will be in the opposite. The full
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: face of the goddess is reflecting the light of the
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: God at that moment, So you'll have and it's always
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: the same mode. So it'll either be cardinal, fixed or mutable.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: It'll always be a projective or a receptive element. So
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 4: air and fire is always paired, water and earth is
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: always paired. If I'm the challenge of the moon full moon,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: people get crazy the full moon. Why because there is
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: the opposition, But there's a from the poison that we
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 4: are presented. It's like it's it's unveiling this thing that
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 4: we have to work on. How do we do that?
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 4: We need to look where the sun is. What's the
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: strength of the sign. And the sun is in right
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: now that needs to be pulled as the antidote for
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: the poison that you're being forced to reconcile right now.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: And that's how I do everything. That's how I do everything.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: I look to the other side, and I tried to
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: seek the balance and acknowledge that again there's nothing all
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: good and there's nothing all bad. We've all had our
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: we all have our moments. Everything in the under the sun,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: everything in the cosmos, it's not just the solar system.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: Everything in the cosmos has got strengths in its weaknesses,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 4: challenges and.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: Ease.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 4: And so that's the crux of my magic. It's identifying that.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: And that was all mapped out for us, thankfully by
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: the alchemists and the occultist who came before us, Agrippa
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: and Levi. And even if I don't believe everything they
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: believed and I really can't stand reading that, I've read
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: it so that you don't have to, and I've distilled
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: it down in my book and given you the good
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: parts version. Yeah, I find that challenging. But anyway, those
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: guys did a lot of good work to help figure
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: out those things like this. Right, here's one of my
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 4: favorite books. I told you the Anikey Hall. I love
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: this three books of a cult philosophy, but I love
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: it with the Donald Tyson.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: Oh it's good and there's a lot of good stuff
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: in there. It's or the Manly p Hall. You know,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: it's not like every word is something I want to
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: carry the torch for. Like I mean, if any occultist
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: starts to look like a Bible thumper, you know, like, oh,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: this is the undeniable truth of God and every word
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 4: in here is exactly perfect. Well, I just don't listen.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: I don't listen to much more after that. Frankly, in
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: a lot of ways.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 7: I think they've put to bed the idea of associations.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 4: Right, the ancient.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 7: Man had this vast list of associations in his head
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 7: that he would use as a tool to remember things better. Right,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 7: the mnemonic device. All of the stuff about the gods
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 7: and the goddesses and their associations and all of this
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 7: stuff with nature has to do with creating a mind
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 7: map that that everything in the world can fit into
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 7: through associations. Yeah, I think we've lost that connection. But
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 7: you know, when you talk to other occultists, it's like boom,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 7: I get it, I get it, Like all of these
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 7: things are fitting into place. So once you have the
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 7: mind map, that's where your will can then go. And
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 7: that's kind of what we're making is through all of
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 7: these thoughts and stuff, it's a mind map for the
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 7: will to absolutely reality.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: Absolutely I agree with you one thousand percent. And the
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 4: mind map or the cosmic map, and you've got to
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 4: figure out where you are on your map, and you've
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: got to you've got to figure it out, like make
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: me your own map maker, really where you're at. And
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: it is very helpful to at least look at the
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 4: maps of the occultis who came before us, you know,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: but that's their map. They can be informative. I've been
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: creating mnemonic devices. The reason why you excite me with
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: what you just said is the associations the mnemonic devices.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: So to remember the those six paths well, by the way,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: I so the pinnacle path. Each element has a name
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 4: of the path that you are walking while you're studying that.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: That's what I call it. And it says, if you're
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 4: on your cosmic map, and you're laying out your own
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 4: cosmic map, right, but you've got to explore the territory.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 4: So while you're walking the path of fire, I call
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 4: it the path of power. Where you're walking the path
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 4: of water, I call it the path of love, Air,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 4: the path of truth, Earth, the path of sovereignty, spirit,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 4: the path of completion. All right, But once I got
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: into lunar, now it's basically six paths that have each
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: have a direction. Right, I'm either working on the Aris
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 4: towards Libra or I'm working the liver towards Aries. But
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 4: it's the same path, right, So it's like six or
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 4: is it twelve? But how do you remember this shit?
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 4: The word beacon, beacon like at the moon. It took
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 4: me a while to figure this out. B is the
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 4: path of becoming. So while you're figuring out the mysteries
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 4: of Aris to Libra, you are figure. You are working
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 4: on the path of becoming. And so the magic is
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: the magic of becoming. E is embodiment. When you're working
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 4: Venus to Scorpio, you're working on this embodiment within the
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: balance of earth and water. There A is awareness. When
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 4: you're working Gemini to Sagittarius, you're working your awareness, your
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 4: perception of your world, your awareness of your place within it,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 4: et cetera. C is cultivation, the path of cultivation. So
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 4: between Cancer and Capricorn, you're cultivating the sense of security
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 4: within yourself and in your outer world when you're home
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 4: and your your public life. Oh is the path of offering.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: How do you offer your light? How do you offer
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 4: your spark? So between Leo and Aquarius, it's how you're
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: offering both as an individual, but also within like an
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: individual star, we are all at a star? Or how
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 4: am I offering my light within the greater constellation of mankind?
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: And then n is the path of nourishment.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 7: So between I was gonna let her finish, but I
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 7: was going to show you this. It's go ahead.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: Guess what I'm me seeing?
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 7: Oh so this is the art of memory by Francis Yates,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 7: where she's going on over the memory palace techniques of
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 7: Georgano Bruno. Oh yeah, Bruno. Right, he was this metaphysician
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 7: that was absorbing all this knowledge from the ancient world,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 7: and he was passed around within the church and everything
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 7: because he was seen to be like a mystic because
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 7: of his memory powers that he absorbed from all of
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 7: the ancient Greek manuscripts.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: Interesting on that.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 4: Awesome, I just realized I left off two of my goddesses.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 4: Because my path, my end, my path of nourishment is
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 4: between Virgo and Pisces. I forgot to mention those two goddesses.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 4: Virgo is Demeter, Pisces is Hecate. So yes, we bring
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 4: it back to Hakat again. But the nourishment of uh,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: you know, it's the whole that is again the salve
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 4: at Kawagula, the virgo is breaking it down and do
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 4: its parts. Kuwaigula is bringing it all back together again.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: Hecitate or Pisces needs hekita for sure.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 4: Absolutely right. There's a couple of there's a couple of
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: those that I mean, of those goddesses that I feel
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: like it could have been a number of a number
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: of them, Like for Capricorn, it could be Khalima, it
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: could be Lilith. I've been working with both. I guess
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: it just came down to Khalima demanded to be in there,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 4: and Lilith was passive about it. So I was like,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: all right, well Kalima wins. But yeah she's she's very
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: Capricorn to me. But yeah, that's so my nomadic device.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 4: There was beacon follow the moon like a beacon anyway.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 7: You said, uh, Pisces really needs hecate, And that got
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 7: me thinking about the three face Jesus. Yeah, the three
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 7: face Jesus was actually banned from church. They couldn't do
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 7: that anymore. The Father's said, and Holy Spirit could be
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 7: depicted in a single face. Really, yeah, it could be
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 7: something there.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 6: M hm.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: That's such a fun association.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 4: Man, You dig deep enough. Just about every divinity has
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: got multiple faces, don't they. People love to do a
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 4: triple something with any of these divinities.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: Was there anything else about the book or anything else
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: you wanted to maybe talk about.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 4: Well, I do offer this as a course if ever,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 4: I was to try to market something. My online course.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: It took me years to develop. It's over one hundred
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: hours of video, so many additional pieces of art and otherwise,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 4: you know, visual aids, graphics, additional documents, additional things that
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: I've created over my career teaching witchcraft that are provided
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 4: an addition to what's in the book, all the things
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 4: that I was forced to cut from the book. And
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: the book is a chunk. I mean, look at this.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 4: I mean it's say, over four hundred pages, and I
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: had to cut a bunch of stuff. So that's all
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: back in the course. It's all just self paced study
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: as you go. It's not like you meet at a
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: particular time. I've created it as part of my sacred work,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 4: and I've put it into the world so that it
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: can be found, you know, long after I'm no longer here, hopefully.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 4: But it's a course on that starts at the very
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 4: beginning So if you know nothing about paganism or occultism
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: or witchcraft, but you want to know, it starts at
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: the very beginning of the story, tells you where all
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 4: of this stuff came from. Where do we get these
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 4: notions from alchemy and from paganism and from gardener or
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 4: wherever to make and it emits that it's relatively new,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 4: it's less than one hundred years old, and it's current configuration.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 4: But we're trying to create something that will grow with
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 4: the people as time progresses and not just be some
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 4: static thing that, like I said, like an anachronism, like
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 4: we're not trying to recreate the Renaissance or whatever. So
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 4: I do teach that this starts at the beginning, but
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: relatively quickly it gets into more deeper, more intermediate level
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 4: personal work. But it's meant for the solitary practitioner, or
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 4: if a group of people wanted to do the course
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 4: together and use it like a curriculum for a coven,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 4: that works too. But it is available on Heronmichelle dot com,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 4: and it is as like a once you buy the
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: way into the course, it's there for you forever. You
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 4: have lifetime access to it. You can go back and
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 4: do it every year if you want. And all of
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 4: the art my illustrations for like the candle wraps and
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 4: whatnot are in the book. Those are available by download
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: and color you know, things like that. There's so much
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: good magic in there, and it really has been well
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 4: received by all the people all over the world have
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: taken it at this point, I've had students all over
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 4: Europe and Australia and all over America for sure, but
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 4: it's been really well received. So I would really hope
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 4: for if my life work is anything, that as many
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 4: people as possible take advantage of the content that I've
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 4: created there with a team of excellent witches who've helped
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 4: me create a really beautiful, high quality video product. But anyway,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: it's at Haromichelle dot com and so I would welcome
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 4: everybody to go check that out. Also, my website is
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 4: Thesojo dot com for my store, and I do sell
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 4: my Goddess art products through my store.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: Also, one thing I did want to ask real quick
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: because we kind of talked about it, and I think
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: I saw you mentioned ben cheering on your show. I
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: was playing this stuff earlier. I think you brought up
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: like charge at the artist, M have you ever show
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: a kind of a little bit of commonalities between that
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: and I think I think it might be in the
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: Book of the Law when is going on about the week.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 4: I think it was inspired by that, wasn't it.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: That's what I had assumed.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I believe that's what Duren Valiante says in
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 4: her her book, uh Rebirth of Witchcraft. She's the one
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: that refined the pro's version of what we would we
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 4: call the charge of the Goddess. And she began that
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: if I'm if, I don't want to tell her story wrong.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: But she got the material from Gerald Gardner, and because
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: she had read Crowley, recognized where he had ripped it
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: all from. And I forget exactly which speech it is,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 4: but it's it's equal parts from a Rodia and a
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 4: segment in something C one of Croley's books, and you
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 4: went in and massaged it. She actually called it decrollifying
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 4: it or something like that, or the she actually removed
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 4: somewhat of that language so that it obviously wasn't a
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: rip off. I think Joel Gardner expected Duren Valiante to
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 4: not be an intelligent, well read woman, but she read
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 4: his shit and was like, dude, I'm a better read
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 4: occultist than you. I know where you got all this,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 4: But she she massaged it and created some parts of you.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: But yes, it's definitely a conglomeration of many of several
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 4: ancient texts or older texts. But yeah, Aradia and some
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 4: crawly stuff and then some of her new stuff. I
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 4: think she wrote the the parts that get into you know,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 4: I'm the beauty of the green earth and the white
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 4: moon among the stars and the dust of you know,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 4: the feet of heaven, you know whatever, that all those
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 4: parts were her.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: But yeah, no, I just thought that it seemed to
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 3: be a common some common alitis in there.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, definitely, since you were open to that, off, I
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: figure that.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 4: Sc I'm very open to that. But I mean I
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 4: do like a credit, you know, a credit the proper source,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 4: you know, and so I do a lot of that too.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 4: But that's another thing that I really enjoy doing in
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 4: my lunar witchcraft, because my original love is poetry. And
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 4: when I tapped into doing just the lunar work, just
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 4: the stuff with the goddess for as long as it
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 4: took me to create the manuscript, talk about a cathonic
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 4: gear but oh, so much poetry, so much art and poetry.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's just the way the goddess flowed through me.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 4: But I've written many charges, you know, like I tap in,
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: like I would like to work with this goddess. Is
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 4: the what is the poetic language or the ritual the
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: liturgy of this right, because there's twenty four different rituals
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 4: just for the lunar work in my new book coming out.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 4: There's many more others also to get ready for it.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 4: But there's a full and a dark moon with bo
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: with all twelve goddesses. That's twenty four major rituals right there,
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 4: the aspets that are in the book, and each one
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 4: of them there are charges, you know what the goddesses delivering.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 4: I can't other than just saying I wrote a lot
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: of poetry. I think it's channeled a lot of poetry,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 4: for better or for worse. It's things that wanted to
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 4: be said by those goddesses, and so it's like spoken
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: as if they are speaking it to you in the rituals.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 4: So it's a lot of liturgical poetry in my new
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 4: work that I'm very excited about. I'll write a charge,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: I'll write a charge, But I'd like to think that
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: it was what those goddesses want wanted me to write
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: at that time. I hope so. I hope so, and
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 4: I hope that when other people read it they're like,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 4: they don't go, oh my god, this want is so
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 4: full of our shit, it's full of herself. I really
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 4: I try as a priestess. I tried to bring forth
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 4: what Divinity asks me to bring forth without my ego
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: stepping in the way, and unfortunately, my ego suffers a massive,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 4: massive helping of what do you call that? Do you
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 4: feel like a fraud? You feel like, you know, like
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 4: I can't say that I pasture syndrome, that's it. I'm like,
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 4: oh my god, I can't do that. And then I
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 4: get that that's your job, Chika, just just write it down,
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: and so I do. I do try to do that,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 4: and it's not really about me, but it is something
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 4: beautiful that I am excited to be part of. So
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 4: I can't wait for the new book to come out.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 4: I can't wait.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 7: I love your enthusiasm. It's awesome, it's infectious.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 4: I would like to think it's infectious as opposed to irritating.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 4: But you for thinking.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: So, when does your book come out.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: I don't know, okay. So usually with ll well And
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: after you submit the first draft, they come back with notes,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 4: and then after you get the next draft to them,
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: it's about a year from then. And I haven't heard
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 4: back yet on the first round, so it'll be at
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 4: least a year, if not longer.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: You're funny. If they have an email me about you
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: and ask me to have you on a year from.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 4: That, well you need to get with Wellen. Find Marcus Robinson,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 4: not Robinson. Marcus said his name is Marcus Robinson's not it.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 4: That's a different Marcus. I know and write this minute.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 4: I'm having a brain I'm having a senior moment. You
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 4: remember his last night.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: A lot of these places have like authors that are
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: like people that I want to have on the show.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 3: I just have no way of contacting them or it's
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: like they ain't gonna listen to me. So it's like,
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: you know, that's why other reasons that I like for
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: Lon Milo Duquet, I want to get him on.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: If I ask Lill Wellen, they'll ask me. You know
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying, They'll ask him myself.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 4: So I love Lon Milo Duquette. He's one of my
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 4: favorite writers, about the Toad Deck and about Kabala.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: I just got David Shoemaker to come on in the February.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you don't.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he actually cold me. What did I
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: talk to me on the phone. I was like, oh fuck,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: I talked to him.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, it sounds like I'm
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: listening to Living at the Lima podcast, Like I like
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: hearing his voice in my head. It was so weird.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: It was actually I was nervous too, I don't know,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 3: but yeah, cool cool, Uh, thank you so much for
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 3: coming on. That was really an amazing talk. I really
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: had a great, great time with you. Hopefully, hopefully we
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 3: can maybe have you on again in the future.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: That would be great.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 4: Sure, well, especially once I know when the new book
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 4: is coming out and I can actually do some more
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 4: about that. I'll let you know.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah for sure, for sure. Yeah, well sure I'll
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: come down at the shop too and see you again.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, come down to the shop.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: Definitely. Was there anything else that you wanted to plug
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 3: and remind people about. I know you kind of already
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: just did it.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 4: I am definitely focusing my my were regular writings on substack.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 4: Substack is a great way to be able to get
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 4: a newsletter or writings and whatnot that do not have
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 4: ads every which way. It's so nice. I do offer
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 4: every two weeks or so at least, but before each
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 4: of the auspicious times for my lunar witchcraft work, so
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 4: about ten days before every full moon, every dark moon,
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 4: about ten days before every Sabbat. I'm posting an article
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 4: with sort of a preliminary look at the way that
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 4: I'm approaching these lunar events in my new book. But
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 4: I'm also providing some additional ways things that are not
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 4: in the book of Celebrating are that would be for
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 4: just an individual. Like, for example, coming up, we have
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 4: the full moon and Leo, which would be with Bastett,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 4: but it's also the weekend right before Emulk, so that's
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 4: the high winter Sabbat. And so I was like, well,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 4: it's a good time to do sort of a combo thing, right,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 4: so you could do the full moon with Bastet and
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 4: make some emilk vals for your great work for the year.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 4: And so I gave three recipes for Bastet inspired incense
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 4: blends if you wanted to add that, And I say,
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 4: why everything's in there, including like a riff on an
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 4: old ancient hea fee recipe which is you know, well
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 4: documented from Egyptian practices. Yeah, and rituals and stuff you
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 4: know with ideas, and I do a lot of poetry there.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 4: There's usually a chant or a blessing or an invocation
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 4: or something that I write new just for the substack,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 4: and I always do it where there's a lot of
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 4: really good, juicy stuff before the paywall. But honestly, I
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 4: am trying to support myself with my priestess work, which
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 4: is a challenge. So I do have some additional things
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 4: beyond a paywall for paid subscribers, and if anybody's got
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 4: a couple of bucks they want to throw my way
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 4: every month to see a couple of articles with all
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 4: this stuff. And I also premiere all my new goddess
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 4: artwork and whatnot there. So you know, I'm trying really
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 4: hard to make a lot of information available to anybody
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: of you know, good intention and to find you know
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 4: that doesn't cost a lot of money, because I want
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 4: people to have access to these things, but I also
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 4: am trying to live, so you know, if anybody wants
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 4: to buy me a coffee as they say, with a subscription.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 4: That's where I'm posting my stuff now.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome, I'll uh if you don't mind the after
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 3: the show, if you can email oh your links, I'll
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: make sure I edit.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: I will do that, don't you worry. But seriously, if
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 4: you just go to Heronmichelle dot com, you will find
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 4: all the things, sign ups for my newsletter, all the
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 4: links will be there. So great, thank you for this opportunity.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: It's been fun to talk about these things, and this
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: was great.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the show. Thank you very much for
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: coming on. Let it showed up and asked me too.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 4: Welcome to Greendal, Thank you, thank you.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: Judith.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: Would you like to let everybody know real quick again
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: where they can find your amazing show?
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: Oh you're muted?
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 3: Sometimes some reason you yeah, like on your end something. Yeah, no, no,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: it doesn't sound right.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: It's been doing this a lot, yeah, some reason. Streamyroad
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: is like, what the audio lately has been bad? It's
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: really bad. Yeah, and you'rre muted still? Uh? All right, Headles,
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: why don't you go let everybody know what's.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 7: Up with you so you can find me at the
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 7: Headless Giant on YouTube, on Twitter and on Instagram too.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 7: Occasionally I get on there so you can find me there.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 7: And I've got shows that are at around seven thirty
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 7: pm every weekday and then one on Sunday that is
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 7: ten thirty which is the trilog. So check them all out.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 7: Thank you very much, very busy man Arrows.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: Everybody know what's up with you.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Haron for coming on.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 4: This was awesome view Arrows.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: You can find me on YouTube at Arrows Up, and
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: you can find me on Twitter Arrows to eat those
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, thanks for having me on.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: Nick, It's great. I'm glad. I'm glad you O could
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: make it. And again, Michelle, that was a blast.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 3: I really really thoroughly enjoyed here and your you know,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 3: your take on things and very uh. I like I
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: like the mix of like kind of like ceremonial and
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 3: witchcraft together, you know.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: I think I think you balance it out well.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 4: Throw some folk witchcraft from Europe and all the ceremonial
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 4: magic and alchemy into one cauldron and you get you
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 4: get wicked.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I like it. I dig it, so uh yeah, everybody.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: Eventually her links will be in the bottom if you
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 3: want to check your stuff out and Judith I'll make
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 3: sure I include Joe Lincoln there as well, so people
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: you know, because you have a mic problems right now,
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 3: sorry about that, and everybody in the chat that's what's up.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 3: Thank you all very much for joining in and commenting
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: and watching the show. That's why we go live. And
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 3: until the next one, everybody be well later