Latest / Pod Therapy / #452: Mid Life Crisis, Generational Trauma, Enmeshed Boyfriend

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#452: Mid Life Crisis, Generational Trauma, Enmeshed Boyfriend · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 0:00
  Speaker 2: And I just wanted to see if she would do
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: the right thing and grab the chair and move it
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: outside of the pergola.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: To not enjoy the pergola.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: Since she's against it morally. Because that was the deal.
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: That is the deal. That she would not use the pergola.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: She will not be partaking of the pergola. No, she
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: just went right under the pergola.
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: I didn't even notice the pergola was there because it's
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: night and it's the exact same.
• 0:23
  Speaker 5: Interesting.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Oh, but a minute ago you really saw that moon.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: I can see the moon outside of the pergola too. Boy,
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: this is the hell she wants to die on, man.
• 0:32
  Speaker 6: And I will.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: It's just religious conviction she has. Like the double thing.
• 0:39
  Speaker 6: An argument for everything.
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  Speaker 3: I love this pergola, but I still fucking hate pergola.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Just no morality.
• 0:44
  Speaker 6: Yours is the least worst pergola.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: From fabulous Las Vegas, this is Pod Therapy. Real people,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: real problems, and real therapists. You can submit your questions
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: anonymously at podtherapy.net or email us at podtherapyguys at gmail.com.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: And now broadcasting from the Pergola Studios, that's Jim, that's Whitney,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I'm Nick. It's time for some pod therapy.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Welcome back, everybody. There's been a little triumph. There's been
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: something of a victory in the pod therapy studio. A
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: war has been fought and settled, and we've also restored peace.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: You know, there's been a treaty. I feel it's arms.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: This maybe would be the right word.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I've declared victory the same
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: way the U S has declared victory in Iran.
• 1:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Great analogy. Have we declared victory in Iran? Oh, a
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: bunch of times. Several times. We're currently winning. Oh, good.
• 1:34
  Speaker 6: It's over.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Not only are we winning. We've won. We have won.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, good.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: And that's why we get to have mystery beef from
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Venezuela now.
• 1:43
  Speaker 6: That's great.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Argentina. Yeah, if you'd like to hear about the Pergola Wars, patreon.com
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: slash therapy. It's a great story. It's a touching tale
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: of victory and nuance. I loved it. And hear about
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: sports traditions as well. And Jim's fantasy football draft. Very exciting.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Check it all out. Come on. Patreon.com slash therapy. You
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: know what? He undersold it. I feel like you redeemed
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: the concept to me. Enough that I'm fine with it.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Now I think it's adorable. But underwhelming if you do
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: not know the background. I can appreciate why that's underwhelming.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: I would argue underwhelming when you do know the background.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: But now it's for kids. That's because you hate children. Yeah, okay. Also,
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: find out which host may be going to hell. And
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Jim's Jesus card finally comes in handy. And has a catch-22.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: All at patreon.com slash therapy. We love you for supporting
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: our show. And we've got some great questions for this
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: week's episode. And we're leading off the order today with
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: midlife crisis or depression. Yes, I think is always the answer.
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  Speaker 6: Same, same.
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  Speaker 1: True.
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  Speaker 3: There you go. We don't know if they're one or
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: a guy, but they're middle-aged. I'll bet they are. Here
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  Speaker 3: we go. Hypot therapy. I'm wondering if I'm having a
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: midlife crisis. Or at least a mild existential crisis.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, if you're asking the question, you're already 80%
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  Speaker 1: to yes.
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  Speaker 3: If you have to ask. I've reached an age where
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I've started thinking a lot about the fact that my
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: life is probably at least halfway over. And honestly, it's
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: been giving me a sense of dread. I look back
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  Speaker 3: at my life and feel like I haven't accomplished nearly
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  Speaker 3: as much as I thought I would. At the same time,
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  Speaker 3: I find myself wondering, is this it? The big milestones
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  Speaker 3: I expected to look forward to seem to be behind me,
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  Speaker 3: and I'm struggling to identify what I'm genuinely excited about
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  Speaker 3: in the future. Is this a normal part of getting older,
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  Speaker 3: or is it something I should be concerned about? How
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  Speaker 3: do you distinguish a normal midlife reevaluation from depression or
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  Speaker 3: something more serious? And most importantly, how do you learn
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  Speaker 3: to look forward to the second half of your life
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  Speaker 3: when you feel like the best parts may already be
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: behind you? Thanks. Love the show. Signed anonymous. Pronouns are
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: she and her. All right.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: All right.
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  Speaker 3: So could be middle-aged white gal talk. Who knows? Who knows?
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Middle-aged woman. Ladies have midlife crises, too.
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  Speaker 1: I just don't have a jingle for any other. That's
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  Speaker 1: my only middle-aged jingle.
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  Speaker 3: Limited repertoire. It'd be silly to have a jingle for
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: every possible demographic.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's just silly. I guess I could have, like,
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: different categories. Get ready for some pretty young.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: Z pronoun having! Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we get that?
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: By the end of the show. Basically a keyboard.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: He just created it.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: I just have a synth keyboard. Just throw it in.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: It's a Mad Libs. Oh, we need a Mad Libs jingle.
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  Speaker 3: By the end of this, I'm just like, the new
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  Speaker 3: keyboard is for yes. This is a really good question.
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  Speaker 3: I think I started officially going through what I perceive
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  Speaker 3: to be a midlife crisis in Around 37. I think 37, 38.
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  Speaker 3: That was much later than I thought.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah.
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  Speaker 6: I was like, that's what I was looking at.
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  Speaker 4: You're right.
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  Speaker 3: Anything with a crisis in it. I just assumed that
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  Speaker 3: Jim started early.
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  Speaker 6: Jim did everything early.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
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  Speaker 3: I'm always, that's right. I'm always, I'm an early adopter.
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  Speaker 3: If there's a crisis, Jim's there.
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  Speaker 2: I'm already there.
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  Speaker 3: Self-imposed. Yeah. I remember going through this and having these.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Jim Jobin, by the way, AARP member.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: Proudly.
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  Speaker 2: Proudly.
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  Speaker 3: That was one of the best parts of aging. I
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: love the discounts. And the tote bag. Thank you, AARP.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Sponsor the show. Not 65. There's no age limit. Again,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: you could just sign up right now. Go do it.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Sign up right now. I love it. Oh, dude, that
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: would rule. I would love to be in a senior community.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Lying on my age just to get into a senior community. Wait,
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: you speak Spanish? Señor community. Oh, it's a different thing.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Different thing. Different thing.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: What age do you think Jim's going to be? He's
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: going to have a walker. It'll, it'll be before he
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: physically needs one.
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  Speaker 3: It'll be, it'll be psychosomatic. I'll be very honest with you.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: If Jim hadn't just made that noise of, I would
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: have guessed that he already had one.
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  Speaker 3: That's the only reason I'm not currently guessing that he
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: already has one. Okay. I got it on discount.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: I thought I'm going to need it eventually, you know?
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: So I got a fresh thing of those tennis balls,
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: you know, in case I got to put those on there.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: And so it's on standby, you know, but it's one
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: of those things I'd rather have and not need than,
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: you know, the opposite.
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  Speaker 1: Uh, Do you think you are at the halfway point,
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  Speaker 1: before the halfway point, or past the halfway point as
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  Speaker 1: far as being like– are you halfway through your life?
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  Speaker 3: For men in America– I'm not asking statistically. I'm asking you. Oh, fuck.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: I'm asking each of you.
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  Speaker 1: Do you believe right now that you are at the
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  Speaker 1: halfway point of your life before or past it?
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  Speaker 3: I didn't until right now.
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  Speaker 6: I was going to say, I feel like I am.
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  Speaker 1: I'm just making you think about it right now. I
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  Speaker 1: believe I am past it. I believe I am past that.
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  Speaker 1: I'm 45. I'm about to be 45. And I don't
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  Speaker 1: believe I'll live till 90. Not with my family history,
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  Speaker 1: not with cancer riddling my family.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I don't imagine that I'll live to 90. So I
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  Speaker 1: believe that I am past halfway point. This is a
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  Speaker 1: thought I've had before.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I feel like I've already not enjoyed this thought. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I definitely am too, I feel. My mom's side, because
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  Speaker 2: my grandmother just died. She was 95.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: That side of the family, they're just made of steel.
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  Speaker 3: Nice.
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  Speaker 2: They just don't break down. But then I have my
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  Speaker 2: dad's side of the family, and that's pretty early. So yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I don't. Yeah, I'm probably.
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  Speaker 3: What do you think, Whitney? Women live forever.
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  Speaker 6: They do.
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  Speaker 4: And one of my grandmas lived to 95, so that's encouraging.
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  Speaker 4: My other grandma had some health concerns and died when
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  Speaker 4: I was, like, four.
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  Speaker 6: So she was younger.
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  Speaker 4: But, yeah, all my aunts are on both sides. They're
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  Speaker 4: all still alive. Like, I haven't had, you know, anyone pass.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, shit.
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  Speaker 6: And they even, like.
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  Speaker 4: I'm like, I can't believe they're still alive. Some of them,
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: due to, like, Depression, poor health, like all that. And
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  Speaker 4: they still just live. You're like, all right.
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  Speaker 3: See, but I think you bring up a really good point. Like,
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  Speaker 3: will I make it to 80? Statistically, men in America
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  Speaker 3: get to 76. And I feel like but that that
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  Speaker 3: number keeps going.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: And so like we're getting into this new era of
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  Speaker 3: really big medical techniques. So I feel like.
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  Speaker 1: It feels like it's been in the mid 70s for
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  Speaker 1: a very long time.
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  Speaker 3: It's been a while, but like in the last hundred years,
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  Speaker 3: it went from like 60 to like 75. So like,
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  Speaker 3: I mean, that's great. Oh, is that the average or
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  Speaker 3: the median? The average. So like now on average, we're
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  Speaker 3: making it a 76. Which takes a lot, right? Because
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  Speaker 3: you've got a lot of younger deaths. No, maybe it's
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  Speaker 3: the mode. Maybe that's it.
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  Speaker 2: Median.
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  Speaker 3: The median is the one that you care about. The
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  Speaker 3: median is the average, but if somebody dies at 10
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: years old, that ruins the... Oh, yeah, that's not the average.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 3: The average is the average. Okay, gotcha. Median is what
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: you want. What you're talking about is average.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: So, like, middle ages and everything, when they talked about, like, oh,
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  Speaker 1: the average life span was, like, 36 or whatever.
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  Speaker 3: Right, yeah. It's not that everybody died at 36. Right.
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  Speaker 3: It's because all of the babies died. All the babies died. And, like,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: one out of whatever, however many it was, survived. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And then, like, but once you passed, you know.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: four years old five years old or whatever then your
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  Speaker 1: chances of living until you were 60 correct were a
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: certain number that was that was normal like so so
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  Speaker 1: i don't know the lifespan like the the median lifespan
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  Speaker 1: has changed.
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  Speaker 3: That much we can that's an easy one to look
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  Speaker 3: up but i think 76 seems to be like the
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: the coin of the realm here is what you're thinking
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  Speaker 3: but like you bring up a really good point. This
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  Speaker 3: is something that really hits me hard is I think
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  Speaker 3: I definitely had this thought, uh, starting in my late
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: thirties of like, have I hit the, I think it
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  Speaker 3: was 37 or 35 because it was that halfway point
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: by the numbers.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: So I was like, okay, so seventies, like I'm, I'm
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  Speaker 3: right there. And I thought, okay, like on one hand,
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  Speaker 3: maybe I've actually lived half my years, but then the
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  Speaker 3: other hand is how great are, is the second half?
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  Speaker 3: Because like my great grandma, she died in her nineties. My,
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: my grandfather, uh, died in his nineties. And I remember
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: most of the time that I knew them in my
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: 30 something years, by the time grandpa died, his life
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: was pretty shitty. Like he had dementia. He was living
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: in assisted living homes. He was retired. And like, there
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: was a little sliver of time where he was playing
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: golf and he would like come over and, you know,
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Merry Christmas us. And it was like, Oh, great to
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: see you Gramps. And like, But like a lot of
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: my life knowing that guy and knowing my grandma and
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: knowing my great grandma, like they were not living well.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: They were just sitting at a house doing these little routines.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: They don't travel. And like I think you think a
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: lot about like retirement and stuff and like there's this
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: whole theory of like, oh, save, save, save and then retire.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: But then like I see a lot of people that
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: kind of did get to retirement age now. They don't
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: want to do anything. They're in their late 60s. They're
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: in their 70s. They just want a nice warm chair
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: and a nap. They don't want to go to kindergarten.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: They're not going to go live their lives. And a
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: lot of us get through the working hard years telling
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: ourselves there'll be a rainbow at the end. But I
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: think when you get to that age, you're dealing with
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: health crises. That's just the deal. And you're going through
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: this other stuff. So part of me gets scared on
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: the midlife crisis scale, not just because of the mortality issue,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: but also when I think of what the next 40
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: years could potentially look like, I think the last 20
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: probably aren't that great. So I think, okay, Jim, you're 40.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Between 40 and 60, probably on average, fine years. But
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: every year older you get, it could be a tougher
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: haul out of there. So yeah, I think it's a
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: dismal thought. I don't know if y'all have struggled with that,
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: but the quality of life in the back half doesn't
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: seem exciting.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Not necessarily.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, because you've got different.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: but you're only looking at half of that equation.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Also 20 years of that, of that bad quality of life.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: seems like an excessive thought yeah 60 to 80 plus.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah like they weren't so bad people people.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Aren't like miserable for 20 years they're not like dying
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: for 20 years.
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  Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's a cliff but like i think
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: it's a it's a slope i think that sure.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: You're gonna have oh i think that slope starts way
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: earlier than 60 oh you do okay.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: You're gonna yeah you're gonna have more you're already.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: In that slope buddy all right you're just at the
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: top of the slope slide yeah downhill yeah.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: You're going to have more health issues.
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: You're also going to have new life experiences. Yeah.
• 12:11
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 12:11
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: You have grandchildren.
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  Speaker 2: That's where I was going.
• 12:12
  Speaker 6: To go with this question.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: You've got all these other things.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So I want to ask you three about this because
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: like– Let me say this out loud. Based on current
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: actuarial data, a healthy 45-year-old male in the United States
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: is statistically expected currently to live until they're.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: About 80 or 81 years old. All right.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: So if you're already in your 40s, that's male. That's
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: probably– Wow, sexist. Female is probably different.
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: Let's see what female is. They get 70% of the dollar. Right.
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: I think it's inverse.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, female gets 82 to 84.
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: We need more years to save up to make up
• 12:44
  Speaker 6: for this.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: That's right. It's only economics. They live longer despite us.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. But no, this is an interesting thing because whenever
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: I was doing a bunch of– I read fucking five
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: books when I was going through all this. I was
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: watching tons of videos on midlife crises. just doing my
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: own personal work to try to get through it. And
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: one of the things I kept seeing was like, oh,
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: they would try to reassure you. And I feel like
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: that's almost a categorical mistake because the writer says, no,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: it feels like a lot of your life milestones happen
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: in the first half. Now we don't have those. So
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: for me, I look at that and go, okay, so categorically,
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: you need to find a new thing in your life
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: than the milestones. But a lot of the literature tries
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: to reassure you and go, oh, but there's a lot
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: more to look forward to. Your kids are going to
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: graduate school and And get into their marriages and get grandkids.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: And I'm thinking like, okay, I happen to have kids.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: So that's kind of interesting.
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: None of that's guaranteed anyway.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not guaranteed. It happens to appeal to me
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: as a guy with kids. But even as a guy
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: with kids, that's interesting. But it's not that great. Like
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: there's a statistic that like 90% of all the time
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: you will ever spend with your children happens before they
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: turn 18 years old. So once they hit 18 and
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: they go to these other milestones where I have grandchildren
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: and things, and also I don't want my entire life,
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: the next 40 years, the only value my 40 years
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: ahead of me has is what happens in my kids'
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: lives and grandkids' lives.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Is this where we start to play Cats in the Cradle?
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: I think so.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I think this is– I was just sitting here wondering
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: if it helps to have Jim spiral down this rabbit hole,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: if it helps the writer.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: To listen to jim spiral together i.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Can't imagine that it does but maybe it does i
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: don't know here the literature is trying to reassure jim
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: and go don't worry buddy you've got kids i think
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: i have a lot of friends my age that don't
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: have kids so in the literature would have this conspicuous
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: absence of support for anybody that didn't have kids i'm
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: like dude what the fuck like how do you guys
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: face this I'm not even satisfied with the kids thing
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: being like the silver lining. You're not even satisfied with
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: your kids. Kids, for the record, don't watch this show.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: And second, if you are, daddy loves you.
• 14:40
  Speaker 8: I would love to see my kids get old.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: And start a family and have children of their own.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: But I don't like my kids.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: What are the chances I'm going to like my grandkids?
• 14:50
  Speaker 6: That's right.
• 14:51
  Speaker 7: Statistically.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's important to.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: It gets laughed at. Like, middle age gets laughed at.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: And, like, the midlife crisis gets laughed at.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: It's a punchline and for a lot of good reasons.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: And it's fine.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: But, like, buying a convertible and playing golf, if you
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: dig it, then fucking go.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Like, if you want to go buy a Corvette because
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: you've always wanted a Corvette and now you're 45 and
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: you can.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Afford a Corvette. Right.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: Like.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Cool.
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: How old was the writer?
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: I forgot how old the writer was.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Didn't say.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Great. But midlife.
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: So we'll put 40 on it. Yeah, great. Just call
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: it a number.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: If you want to go buy a convertible and take
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: up a new hobby, honestly, hobbies, things like that, and
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: understand that just doing things because you want to do them,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: that's a perfectly good reason to do a thing.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: So, Whitney, I want to get a girl's perspective on
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: this because he just said a good point. And I
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: feel like there's a punchline in society. Oh, men. Men
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: in their midlife crisis, they go get a fast car.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: They start picking up a sport. They travel. They start
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: doing things to feel young again, the stereotype that they
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: date a 20-something. But with the last one- Well, that
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: part's moving over to women too. Yeah, that's right. There's
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: some overlap here.
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: But coming over to this idea of the midlife crisis
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: just being a male concept, in your experience as a therapist,
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: as a woman- Is there the female equivalent?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: As an old woman.
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: As a middle-aged woman.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: As a middle-aged lady. You know, like a fine wine, Whitney,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: like a fine wine.
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: She's a lady! Whoa, whoa, whoa! A slightly older lady!
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: That's right.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: Is there a female equivalent? The writer's female and saying, look,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: I'm struggling with this, but I'm also wondering, is that depression?
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: And I bet you there's a lot of women that
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: are like, oh, do women go through this or am
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: I just depressed? Ugh.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: Women do go through this. The There's like a lot
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: of different thoughts had on this. So on one hand, yes,
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: women do go through this. And what I kind of
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: wanted to say is I feel like it gets placed
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: or it's highlighted in men more because women are busy
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: like raising children around this age. So although I think
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: women are still feeling that or in the past, you know,
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: women are feeling that I think more recently women are
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: not having children. So there is more space for them
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: to be like, wow, what do I do with my life?
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: I think women with children are still feeling that, but
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: they don't even have a second to process that.
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: They're in it with like their kids.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: They're busy.
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: They're, they have their, their kids.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: They can only fuck so many pool boys. Yeah.
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: Especially between lunch and dinner.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: There's only so many hours of the day. This is
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: not just about having a positive attitude.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, I think they just haven't had space for that,
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: like mental capacity to express it or for it to.
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: Be documented or noted.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: We, Like, and I don't know, maybe that's unfair to
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: say for men, but I do think men have that
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: advantage of like, oh, in the, in the history of
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: at least like modern society.
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: They've gone to work.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: They aren't as entrenched mentally and like their family lives.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: So there's space for them to be like, what am
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: I doing with my life? And like my wife's, um, like,
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: you know, mental state is taking care of our kids,
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: but what is my job?
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: And what's my purpose?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: So like the men are, the men are kind of
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: looking at it going like my wife has purpose.
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: Yes. Yeah.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: That's what I don't. I'm, I'm floating. I'm a little listless.
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: I'm a little, yeah, I'm out here and my wife's focused.
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: I hear this a lot.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: Like my wife's focused on the kids. And so like,
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: The man feels like I'm not getting attention or I'm like,
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: that's not even a purpose. Our relationship because the woman's
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: like focused on the kids.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: It seems like in the modern era though, there are
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: women who are still going through like some big identity shifts.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Like I saw some statistics the other day that like
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: 70% of all divorces are initiated by women. And of
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: all divorces initiated, a lot of them are now 35
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: years old and above women that are like, Hey, it's
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: time for a reboot. Like I'm not going to live
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: the rest of my life unhappy or whatever.
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, sitting thinking that I'm just thinking of the
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: handful of my closest friends that Well, actually, even the
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: one I was going to say that hadn't been divorced,
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: she was divorced before, but she's still in her like
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: they've all been divorced at least once. And yeah, they're
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: 40 to 45 years old. And so, yeah, and that's
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: within the last like decade probably.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: And so is that a midlife crisis vibe? That's is
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: there is there a thread of midlife crisis that's in that?
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure they have legitimate reasons. A lot
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: of it should be seen through the scope of unhappy
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: relationships that are just unhappy no matter how old you are.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: But is there a flavor in that? Is that one
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: variable in the soup? Let me ask a different– let
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: me ask that same question in a different twist. Is
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: there a– like a through line of starting new chapters?
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Kind of like– kind of reboot. What you said like–
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: all right, what you said, Jim.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not going to be unhappy for the rest
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: of my life doing this.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: It's like I was happy with this from 20 to 40. Right.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: And that doesn't really fulfill me anymore.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and when they tried to shift or change or
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: adjust with their partner, the partner was.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Not– They haven't grown in the same direction.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: Right. But as far as midlife crisis, I think what
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: can happen too if women had children young, then yeah,
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: they're like, my whole life was These years that felt
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: like prime, using that in quotes for the audience, like
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: prime years are gone.
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: So now what?
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: And I think Nick kind of said this earlier. I mean,
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: we don't even know what we're going to experience at
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: 40 to 60. I think there are tropes or 40
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: to 80. other tropes. There's like what TV represents there's
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: and what movies represent, but we really don't know what
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: it's going to be like. So I think sometimes we
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: have that sense of dread from a place of what
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: we think we know about that era.
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: But when you think about.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: Like the previous transitional time in your life, when you're
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: about 18, um, that's, Or let's say 14 to 18.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: That's a big transitional time. But we're told kind of
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: what we're going to do then. Like they say, you're
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: going to college. You're going to get a job. You're
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: going to.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Learn a skill. In many cases, somebody has a plan
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: for you.
• 20:44
  Speaker 6: There is a plan.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: And everyone's working that into your life and helping you.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: But once you transition around 40 or 45... There's no plan.
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: And so I think naturally, even if you don't want
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: to do those things like go to college, whatever, there's
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: a sense of like maybe security when we're in that
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: transitional stage when we're younger. But this is our next
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: big transitional stage and nobody has a fucking clue because
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: you can do whatever you want.
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: Like you said, Jacob, you can do anything.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: My parents are still alive. You were talking about your
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: grandparents and aunts and uncles and everything. And I was
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: thinking like, oh, I don't have any living generations outside
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: of like my parents. Right.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: So like aunts and uncles and grandparents, they're all dead.
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: Oh, wow.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: But like my parents are both still alive.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: But yeah, when I speak to them, as I'm thinking
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: about it right now, when I speak to them, like
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: they don't– they're not pushing me.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: In a direction, right?
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: They're not trying to guide my life. They're curious about
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: my life. They want to talk about my life, but
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: they're not.
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: Jacob, you need to do blah, blah, blah.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Jacob, you need to go to grad school. It's not...
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Nothing obvious on the map anymore. That's it. Buy a house.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: I have a house. They're like, what are you up to?
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: What are you doing next?
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: You're like, well, I could do anything. How do I choose?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: And if I had maybe a request of them and
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: wanted to include them in something, I'm sure they would...
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: they would yeah but it's not that's not that relationship
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: it's not that it's not the parent guiding the child.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: Anymore and when you were young would they do more
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: yeah so i think that i never thought about that
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: till listening to this question i was like what is
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: making it so difficult for us all as humans to
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: transition into that next stage and i do think it's
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: because we've been guided for so long. This is new
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: territory and there's not really a guide.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The road is well paved for the first 30
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: something years. Like there's all these clear milestones. It's like
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: the game of life, right? Like you get all these
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: like little forks in the road where it's like, do
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: you want to have kids or not? Okay. I'm going
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: to make a choice on that. And that's going to,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: the next steps are then planned.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to focus on a relationship or I'm
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: focused on my career, focus on a asset accumulation and
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: focus on friendships and community building. Like you have all
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: these little nuggets and, But then I do agree with you.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Like you get to this other side of the lifeboard
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: here and then it's just like not as obvious like
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: what you're supposed to do at that time. And I
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: think different humans answer that question different ways. Like some
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: people do start forming extra communities. They're like, that's what
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: I put my energy in or they get really obsessed with,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: you know, their grandkids or their their external family or whatever.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Or they go off in search of adventure. Like that
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: seems to be a really common one is like holding
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: on to the last I mean, I feel like also, too,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: that when you're younger, you're living a lot in the future.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: And as you get older, you live more in the moment.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Hashtag deep.
• 23:23
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: They're going to see the past.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Boom.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: No, I think because like– yeah, I mean like when
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: you're younger, when you're in your 20s, you're going to college.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: You're going to college for something.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: You're preparing.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: To do a career, to do something. And even when
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: you're dating, you're preparing to find your spouse or who
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: are you going to live with, all this other stuff.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Whereas you kind of get to an age where it's.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Like- Find members of my sister wife community.
• 24:03
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: Big community. Big one.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Expand the compound.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: That's right. But like you get to.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: A certain age where it's like- Got a lot of
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: land here.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Can't think of anything worse. No.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: You get to a certain age where it's like I'm
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: not really– other than retirement, not really planning big stuff.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I'm focusing on doing my best to enjoy the moment
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: right now that I'm making the best out of where
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I'm at.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm planning like my next few months. I'm planning
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: my next six months. I'm planning my next year.
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, one year at a time.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, more than now.
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: That's true.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, which also I think is a fundamental shift in
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: freeing yourself from some of your thinkings because when you're younger,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: in general, I think that if you're future-focused, it's a
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: conservative mindset, right? It's like, hey, don't make any big
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: waves here. We've got a long-term mission. We're thinking in
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: 30 years. Slow and steady wins the race. But then
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: you get to a different age and different season of
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: life where you're like, no, I'm going to do a
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: little bit more for the now. I'm going to spring
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: on the pergola.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: And it really is like– Big mistake.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: I mean some people get a Corvette, right?
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I've always wanted a pergola.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Is the pergola your midlife crisis? Because it's kind of
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: like the– It's like the convertible.
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: It is a convertible.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: That's your version of a convertible. Sometimes I like to
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: open it up, let my hair down.
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: Maybe you'll be more gentle to Nick Smith. It's okay,
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: little old man.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: And all these 20-year-olds are just climbing over the wall.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: And it's like, oh, that's a really nice pergola. And
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: just Laura's running around with a broom. Get the fuck
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: out of here. God damn it. All these young.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Ladies 20 years younger than I am see me in
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the pergola.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: The pergola bitches.
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: Oh, God.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: The pergola bitches. They're everywhere. I work with a variety
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: of different aged people. And I work with people. They're
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: young 20s up to people who are older than I am.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: And it is amazing watching young women especially, but also
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: young men just walk past people.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: And not give a shit about me.
• 26:01
  Speaker 9: You become invisible as you get older.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Sexual invisibility.
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: Not even a glance?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: When they see me the first time, and I'm saying
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: this is perfectly nice. Everybody is doing correctly.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: No harm.
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: It's just something you notice.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: When they see me the first time during the day,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: they greet me and say hello. And Maybe have like
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: a 30-second conversation. But then the rest of the day,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: if they walk past me, there's nothing. But yeah, it
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: is fascinating to watch. Or when they do talk, it's
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: like they're talking to their dad.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: And you go, oh, I didn't sign up for this
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: at all.
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you're like, I'm not trying to give you advice
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: on your life, sweetie.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Jacob, I've been a really bad girl. And, you know,
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: I just need you to discipline me. That's Jacob. Jacob's
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: the audio guy.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: He was born in the 1900s.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: When the science was invented.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: We went and saw Terminator 2 last night in the theater.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: A bunch of people from the show.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: And so there was, like, a fun cross-section of, like,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: people in their forties down to people in their twenties
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: and people who had seen T2 before, people who had
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: seen T2.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: In the theaters before and people who were seeing T2
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: for the first time. Yeah. Wow. I enjoyed the musical.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Cause it was the day. It was the day that
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: like the machines took over. So they were playing it
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: in the theater. Yeah. Oh, that's really cool. Oh, the
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: projected day. Right.
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: So on this point though, of like determining the difference
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: between what is the existential funk and of aging versus
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: what is we're getting into major depressive disorder. I do
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: think that we can definitely define those differently, but I
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: also don't want to necessarily put them into completely separate
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: boxes because I do feel like mental health, emotional health
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: and life choices and life situations are all part of
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: the same thing. They're all in a continuum. We can't
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: dice away, you know, just your mental and emotional health
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: away from your situational truth. Yeah. So like for me,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: those are all woven together. So if a person loses
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: their job and they're like, oh, am I depressed or
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: am I going through a crisis of being unemployed? It's
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: like it can be both. Yeah, exactly. So like with this,
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: with midlife crises and existential reality changes, I think to
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: some extent there's an amount of that which is so
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: expected and ultimately I think quite healthy. Like I think
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: it's something of a metamorphosis a person goes through. Also,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: I think something we didn't comment on is hormonal changes, right?
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I saw this really interesting video that was talking about
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: puberty and perimenopause and just like, just appreciate. I wasn't
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: going to be the first person that said perimenopause.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: Well, like I was not going to be the first
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: person who said it on this letter. Hit your bingo boards.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: But like, you know, like there's a lot that changes.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: And with men as well, like after 40 years old,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: we lose like 1% of testosterone every year. And so like,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: there's a lot that's happening in our bodies that is
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: directly attached to our emotional and mental health. Plus, there
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: is the reality of, like, fundamental milestone change. As Whitney said,
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: the human story map is changing. So I just want to, like,
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: normalize that while also leaving room that it can knock
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: somebody over who maybe is already psychiatrically vulnerable. to where
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: it does start a depressive cycle in your life. And
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: so I just want to leave room that these things
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: don't have to be in two different boxes. They can
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: be the same thing. And it's also possible to be
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: going through an existential crisis so acutely and so powerfully
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: that whether we call that depression or not, it is
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: a clinically significant amount of distress. And that is usually
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: the blinking signal therapists are looking for before we want
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: to treat that or we want to medicate that. We
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: feel like something must be done for that. So I
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: just want to kind of wrap that all together, Ryder.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Like my answer to whether it's depression and what to
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: do about it would be if it's getting to this
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: place where it's causing a lot of distraction, a lot
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: of emotional despair, a lot of distress, It's impacting your
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: family life, your social life, your occupational life, your general
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: joy and mental health. You're having anhedonia, pleasure deafness. You
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: can find no spark, nothing to look forward to. The
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: silver linings are gone. If you're feeling overwhelmed with that
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: despair and it's starting to create weight gain, hypersomnia, like
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: all these things that are kind of external factors, I
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: want you to talk to your doctor. I want you
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: to talk to your doctor about medicine. I want you
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: to go see a therapist because whether we call that
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: depression or we call that a midlife crisis– Or if
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: we just call that adjustment disorder, it needs to be addressed.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: And a lot of the approaches are going to be
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: the same no matter what.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: If you're calling it a midlife crisis or depression, is
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the treatment any different?
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: I think the way we approach it is going to.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Be very similar. Like you're checking any or all of
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: those boxes that you just mentioned.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Like the treatment process is going to be basically
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: the same. Lots of men and women come in for,
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: you know, essentially this and they'll say, look, I don't
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: know if I'm depressed or if it's midlife crisis. And like,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: I think you're still doing depression work with them, but like,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: It's from this deeper existential conversation way where you're having
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: them reflect a lot on their values at this stage
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: of their life. What do they personally think matters to them?
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Who are they as a person? And trying to help
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: them find their internal thread, their narrative, to figure out
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: what that extends to in this next chapter of their lives.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: So it's a slightly different treatment modality for me personally.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: I think it adds more tools to the table that
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: offer some really exciting conversations that are related to all this.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: But yeah, short answer is yeah. That'd be my answer
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: to the depression versus midlife crisis. At least not completely dissimilar. Yeah.
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: They're adjacent. Either way, do the work.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: And just a reminder, like Jim talking about medications or
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: talking to your doctor about medications, I think it's good
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: to remind listeners that, because I hear this a lot,
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: people don't want to start meds even for depression because
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: they're worried about side effects or am I going to
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: be on them forever? And Um, sometimes we just need
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: that little something to help get over a hump to
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: get through something.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: It doesn't mean it has to be forever.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Also, go ahead and, like, next time you're at the
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: grocery store, buy a vitamin. Just buy, like, a multivitamin
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: or something like that.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: Vitamin D, Jesus.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, if you're like us and you don't get
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: enough sunshine, get some vitamin D.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: But, like, start taking that every day. Yeah.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: And, like, just every morning, just when you wake up
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: and you go in and you brush your teeth and
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: you're getting ready in the morning, just take that every day.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: And see if taking that pill every day ruins your life.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Which reminds me, we are now selling supplements.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is completely unrelated, but since
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: we're here. Not a pod therapy bait shop. That would
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: be silly. We've launched a new store, Pod Therapy Pharmacy.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: The URL was available.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: We legally can't say pharmacy.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: Well, pharmacia. Pharmacia with an S. Which is good because
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: it dropships out of Mexico. So it's actually really helpful.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: It's pharmacy, but it's spelled with an F. That's right.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: And we also only accept Bitcoin.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Now that Alex Jones is out of business, we're getting
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: all his suppliers.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Extra shit.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: We just put a new label on it. Buy gold!
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: Oh, man.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: No, but you bring up a really good point about
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: the vitamin D. There's a really good book out right
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: now called In Defense of Sunlight, I think is what
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: it's called. And it's fascinating. Oh, you're going down the
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: path of like vitamins actually helping. Vitamins help.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: I was pointing out like even if you're saying like
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I might take this every day for the rest of
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: my life.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Also, yeah. It's not going to bother you that much
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: was my real point.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: But yeah, get sunlight. If you ever think you're depressed,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: there's so many new sciences talking about like heliotherapy and
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: oh man, that's a whole thing. I try to sit
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: outside for a couple of hours a day every day now. Well,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: you don't sit under the pergola, do you? Because that's
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: not going to do a damn thing. It does something. Okay.
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: If it's a real pergola, it'll have plenty of sunlight
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: coming through those slops.
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: I was going to say really quick while Nick flips
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: me off. I was just going to say to the
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: writer asked, like, how do you get I think that's like,
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: how do you get through that? I wanted to just
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: throw out, you know, because things are so planned out
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: for us early on in life.
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: Try and sit down and really sit with yourself.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: And not just once, but maybe this is multiple times
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: re sitting down and rethinking through. What do I want
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: to do? What kind of path do I want to
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: lay out? Even if you don't have to stick with
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: that exact thing, just get a footprint, like something to
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: go off of, like a baseline to start with and
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: see what stands out. I think actually Laura asked me
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: this and it was really interesting. She said, what were
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: the things that you used to do as a kid
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: that you stopped doing? And I was like, man, I
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: had to release it. I was like, I don't know,
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: like Rollerblade.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: I was going to say. Other kids? Wow.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Child porn.
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: Great.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Whoa. Jesus Christ.
• 34:43
  Speaker 6: We were talking about sex with children.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: When you were a child. It was appropriate. The joke
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: was cute.
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: Is it?
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: The listeners knew. The joke was adorable.
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: Nick is staying silent for good reason.
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: He's just waving at the children's hospital.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not following him down that road.
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: You can wave at us.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: There's not a separate side of the ship you're on
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: that doesn't sync with me. that's not how this.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Works child porn i say whoa that's as far as
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: i'm waiting into it and jim's just off to.
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: The races you know i'm easily provoked so yeah i
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: think that um that was an interesting uh question because
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: it does make you think like I could still go
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: jump rope.
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: I could rollerblade. I could paint or write poems. These
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: are all things that I enjoyed doing as a kid,
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: and why don't I just sit down and do those
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: things or try them?
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I could still dress up as Batman and ride around
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: the neighborhood on my bike.
• 35:41
  Speaker 8: And why?
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying. It'd be better if you did.
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: Life would be way better if you did.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: That is the solution to the midlife crisis. No, honestly,
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you no joke.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: The thing that I have been really obsessed with lately is, like, fedoras.
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: You're going into your fedora era.
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: No, no, no.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: We are supportive friends, Jacob. We are supportive. This is
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: my favorite you porn search menu topic ever. Fedora. Cowboy hats.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: So there's a guy that I follow on Instagram.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: Okay. Wild hats. Great.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: And he makes hats. He's based in Louisville, Kentucky.
• 36:24
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: And I am just obsessed with everything he.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: Posts, all his videos.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And it shows all these different variations.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Of all these hats.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: He'll do fedoras. He'll do cowboy hats, all these different variations.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I'm learning about all the brim styles. Are you going
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: to start developing a hat collection?
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: I would, but I feel like I would be such
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: a poser, but I really badly want to get.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: One of these hats.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: I can honestly say that I would not think you
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: were any more of a poser than the guy in that.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Video that you're watching. Yeah. He didn't invent fedoras. I
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: believe that you would be exactly that level of poser. Yeah.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: I can handle that.
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: Great.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: But I think you're good on being happy. I think
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: you're solid then. Follow your heart. Get your hat. Follow
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: your heart. You know? There's way worse midlife crises. So
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: if your whole midlife crisis is a pergola and hats.
• 37:15
  Speaker 6: You're doing great, buddy.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: You're doing great. It could be making.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Honestly.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That is much better. Here's the thing.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Wearing a cowboy hat, sitting under my pergola, smoking a cigar.
• 37:28
  Speaker 6: He has to have the hat. He has to have
• 37:30
  Speaker 6: the hat.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: That's what the founders intended. Ryder, get yourself a cowboy hat.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Get yourself a pergola. Get yourself a cigar.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I think I'm getting a hat.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: I think we've solved this problem.
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: You need a hat.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Yep. We're going to take a quick break, and when
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: we come back, we're talking about generational trauma. You are
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: listening to Pod Therapy.
• 37:46
  Speaker 7: This week's episode is brought to you by Robert Browning Jr.,
• 37:50
  Speaker 7: Men's Kayla, Lensberry, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin, Lib,
• 37:55
  Speaker 7: Hey Yo, Andrew Langbead, Chad Megg, Inka LaPrinz, and Dale
• 37:58
  Speaker 7: the King. And if you'd like to sponsor the show,
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: become a therapy producer at patreon.com slash therapy.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Name that hat.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to continue on. Lyrics. Oh, yes. Song lyrics. Good.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: Part deux. Yeah.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Here we go.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Danger zone.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, next one. Jim, you're up.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Okay. I, I will be king.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: And you, you will be queen. I, I will be king.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: And you, you will be queen. And wait. Keep us together.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: Forever and ever. Fuck. You know it, don't you?
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: No.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: You, you will be queen. Nothing can drive them away.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Is it you two?
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: We can beat them.
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: Beat them.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: If just for one day. All right. So I, I,
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: I'm not entirely sure of the band. Cause this is
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: a little bit before my time. I'm going to say
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: Bon Jovi. Nailed it. And I'm going to say the
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: song title. It's just for one. I mean, just for
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: one day.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: No and no.
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: Fuck.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Whitney.
• 39:18
  Speaker 6: Y'all are going to kill me because I was singing
• 39:21
  Speaker 6: that song. I'm like, oh, I got it. And I
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: literally realized I was seeing.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Oh, no, I got it.
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: Oh, shit.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Ah, damn it. I got five bucks. It says Jim
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: still doesn't know.
• 39:31
  Speaker 6: I'll send it back to him if you want me
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: to after Jacob. Uh, but the song mashup from Moulin Rouge,
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: the movie.
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: Uh, is all i can think of so it switches
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: to just because i will always love you which is
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: not that song and i'm like shit i don't know
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: the song because i can't finish it all i think
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: of is mulan rouge so i i don't know and
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: i hate that i don't know so i can get.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: It do you want these points no i i absolutely
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: know it i've got uh five dollars.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: That says jim still doesn't know who wrote this song
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: okay i'm gonna say heroes by the wallflowers give me
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: my five dollars yeah Is it Elton John? Is it
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: called Heroes? The song is Heroes. It's by David Bowie.
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: Oh, David Bowie.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: From the Wallflowers. David Bowie from the Wallflowers. David Bon Jovi. Bowie. Okay, Whitney,
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: here we go. So that's what it sounds like.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: That's the exclamation that Jim makes when he still doesn't
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: know the right answer.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: He yells and screams and he still doesn't know the answer.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Alright, Whitney.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: This is not the first. Some of these I intentionally
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: didn't use the first verse. So I kind of threw
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: a little curveball here, but here we go. I left
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: my home in Georgia, headed for the Frisco Bay. I've
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: had nothing to live for. Look like nothing's going to
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: come my way.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: Shit.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Pass.
• 41:08
  Speaker 6: I kind of have a guess, but I don't quite.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I can't hear it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I left my home.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: It's definitely familiar.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Headed for the Frisco Bay. I've had nothing to live for.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: It's definitely familiar.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: I'm coming, Jim. Hold on. jim has started messing with
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: his microphone.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Oh my god it's day one it's not day one
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: we've had microphones because i'm staring at jim.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Fully new microphone i still don't know i don't know
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: either jim uh down frisco bay uh it's um it's
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: uh the one about sitting sitting on top of the
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: sitting on top of the water they're sitting Looking at
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: the water. Fuck. It's an old man who's singing it.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go with David Bowie. Sitting at the bay.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Sitting on top of the bay. Sitting on top of
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: the bay by David Bowie. No, not sitting on top
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: of the bay. Sitting something in the bay. Fuck. Old Bay. Seasoning.
• 42:15
  Speaker 6: John Silver.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Sitting on the Bay by John Silver. No, I'm sorry.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: It's Sitting on the Dock of the Bay by Otis Reddick.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, God damn it. I was the rightest of all
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: of us.
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: How does this song go?
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: I left my home in Georgia. Yeah, that's it. Headed
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: for the Frisco Bay. Yep.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I've had nothing to live for.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: The chorus is this.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Sitting on the dock of the bay, watching the tide.
• 42:49
  Speaker 7: Oh, okay, okay, okay.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Uh, Jacob, here we go.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: I like that they both sang the verse for you.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: And Wendy was like, I don't know the verse.
• 42:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I was like, that's what I don't know.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: All right, here we go. No reason to get excited.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: The thief, he kindly spoke. There are many here among
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: us who feel that life is but a joke.
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: Jacob's fucking with us now. I'm never going to think.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: But you and I, we've been through that. We've been
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: through that. And this is not our fate.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: And this is not our fate. So let us stop
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: talking falsely now. So let us stop talking falsely now.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: The hour's getting late. The hour's getting late.
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: Hey.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: Hey!
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Pass.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: God damn it. I was like, wow, that's a really
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: bad song. That was hard.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: To even read.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: All Along the Watchtower by Jimi Hendrix.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow. Look at him go. All Along the Watchtower.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: There we go. I think he's winning a lot. That
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: was a perfect impression of Jimi Hendrix.
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: I thought he was here.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: You were possessed by him. I didn't know he was
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: not in the room. Generational trauma. Hey, JJ and W.
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: What would JJ and W do?
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: We need that bracelet in our shop.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: I'm a 28 year old guy and I've never actually
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: been to therapy, but listening to your podcast has made
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: me start recognizing some things about my own childhood that
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: I never really thought about before. My dad was an
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: alcoholic and a workaholic and he was generally pretty short tempered.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: There were times when his anger became physical and violent.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: My mom was very focused on managing my dad and,
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: as a result, was often emotionally unavailable to my siblings
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: and me. My dad has since passed away. I have
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: a good relationship with my mom and siblings, although we're
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: not particularly close. As an adult, I'm starting to recognize
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: some patterns in myself that I think may be connected
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: to that upbringing. I have a lot of anxiety. I'm
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: pretty emotionally suppressed, according to my wife, and I have
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: a really strong aversion to conflict. Now my wife and
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: I are expecting our first child. And that's making me
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: think about all of this in a completely different way.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: I'm terrified that despite my best intentions, I might somehow
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: pass some of this baggage onto my child. I've heard
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: the term generational trauma a lot, but I'm not sure
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: how much of it is actually supported by psychology versus
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: being a popular buzzword. So is generational trauma a real thing?
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: And if so, what can someone like me do before
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: becoming a father to To recognize these patterns and break
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: the cycle. Yes and nothing. Next question.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: I don't think they're like, yes.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Do I need to go to therapy myself or are
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: there things I can consciously do to make sure my
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: childhood doesn't determine the kind of father I become? Thanks.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: Anonymous pronouns are he and him. I'll start. You don't
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: need to go to therapy. You're fine. You'll be fine.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't go to therapy. Do what your dad did.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: Up your Patreon.
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: Drink.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: And if you angle it correctly, your insurance company should
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: reimburse you for all of your Patreon contributions.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: We should be able to find a way to do that.
• 46:09
  Speaker 6: Superbill is what we call it.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: Oh, we should start sending people a superbill. That's a
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: great idea. There's no way that backfires. Not going back
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: to jail. Not for fraud. So this is a great
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: question because I think that we're getting.
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: It's a really good question.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like there's a lot of psychology buzzwordiness to the
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: idea of what the body keeps score and like generational
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: trauma being held in the genes or just like psychological
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: pastimes and then there's also i think this very observable
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: empirical reality that no human is an island we come
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: from human ecosystems families of origin there are patterns that
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: get passed and hurting people go on to hurt people
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: this is an excellent question to think about.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: It is i personally do think uh at I think
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: generational trauma is a huge buzzy buzzword, and it's kind
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: of like narcissist. Narcissist is a real thing, but it
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: gets thrown on so much that you're just.
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: Like, oh, okay.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: Pools a little water down here.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: Yes. So generational trauma might be at risk of creeping
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: into that category too, but that doesn't mean it's not real. Right.
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: And what I hear you describing, Ryder, is like, is
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: my shit going to come up when I'm parenting my kid, basically?
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 47:23
  Speaker 6: And the answer is yes, is yes to that. The
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: answer is yes.
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: The number one thing from someone who has no children,
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: because I'm an expert on this, is that when I
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: watch my friends or family have kids, that really is
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: one of the number one things I will hear them
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: say is.
• 47:38
  Speaker 6: Like how quickly from.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: very young age with their children how quickly they will
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: feel their own inner turmoil or like triggers you know
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: all these things flare up so fast before you can
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: blink when your child like talks back to you rolls
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: their eyes or not even anything that crazy. They just like,
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: I actually like the eye roll one because that will
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: send you as like, I feel like a person of
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: our age or just like, Oh, if I rolled.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: My eye, my parent, but.
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: Really who fucking cares if your kid rolls, right.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: So just expressing an emotion, but it's like you inwardly
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: are feeling that, that flare up. And so, uh, you know,
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: my short answer to this really is yes, I would
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: go talk to someone and that's what I love about therapy.
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: It doesn't have to be, let me dig into and
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: necessarily even like heal.
• 48:28
  Speaker 6: If you feel like fine with.
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: Your traumatic background, therapy isn't to stir that up and
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: get you like upset about it. But if you're like, Hey,
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: these are things that were happening to me in my childhood.
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: This is why it was happening. Like, how do I
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: manage parenting going forward? That can be its own thing
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: you work on in therapy and it doesn't have to,
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: you probably will dredge up some things, but, um, yeah,
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: it doesn't have to be some deep inner work if
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: you're just not ready to do that, but it would
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: be helpful to prepare.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: What did our old boss used to say? Oh, Johanna. Yeah.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: That which is not transformed is transmitted.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 49:03
  Speaker 9: Yep.
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: I was exactly thinking that. God, Johanna O'Flaherty.
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Still a fucking just boss. Number one herpes expert in
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: the back.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Our old boss at the old herpes rehab. What is
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: not transformed is transmitted.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: We didn't say that.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: It.
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: I didn't see it there.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: Great times at the old herpes rehab. We rehabbed a
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: lot of herpes. Herpes was on the verge of going extinct.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: We rehabbed all of it. We were the Jurassic Park.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: We were taking DNA samples from fucking mosquitoes and amber.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: Amber hated it. Amber did not like it. She did
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: not give consent. We just put her in a room
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: with mosquitoes. I remember hearing this thing that like pubic
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: lice like crabs are like almost extinct just because people
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: like shave now and like, they just don't tend to.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I don't think the extinct part is true, but like,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I believe that it's.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Something that like, it's a notable thing. Maybe, I don't know.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: It's probably almost gone, but no, say more about that.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: That was a really great thing that she's to teach us.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I just remember that was one of
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: the things we used to do, like a lot of
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: the trauma timelines and stuff like that to kind of
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: get an idea of like, what are you dealing with?
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: And if you cannot find a way to, And it's
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: not about getting rid of it. It's about finding a
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: healthy way of transforming it into something useful that you
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: can kind of process so that it doesn't get handed
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: down to the next generation.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: No.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: I think Whitney's spot on correct with that. Wrong about
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: the pergola, right about this.
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: I was going to record you saying that behind the pergola.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: Nobody's 100%. Can't be 100%.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: But just the idea that it's not something that– I
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: think you're right to be concerned. You may be a
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: little over-concerned about it, Ryder. But I think you're right
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: in the sense that there's just going to be natural
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: things that you're just going to naturally just react to.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: That you just do. Without really even thinking about it
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: because you understand what it's like to be an adult
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: by watching the adults that you are around. You understand
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: what it's like to be a parent by watching the
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: parents that you are around.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of these things that even though
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: you're not a parent yet, you've kind of already honed
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of those skills unintentionally.
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Parenthood, I think you're absolutely right. Parenthood is the
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: Rorschach test of your inner child. Yeah. And so like
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: for what– I think that you're on the right track, Ryder,
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: that I love that you're looking at this and saying, hey, look,
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: I've had this really tough childhood. I've been through a
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: lot of scary things. I would be very silly to
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: assume that I just got out of that unscathed and
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: I will not in any way approach my child and
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: my parenting in any myopic, broken ways. That would be
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: a very silly assumption, right? And like there's very few
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: humans who had such a flawless childhood before. that they
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: cannot possibly do some inner work and tighten it up
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: and be really good at parenting and do that therapy
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: work or personal introspection to get better for their own
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: parenting journey. Everybody should do it no matter what. But
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: if you're coming from a history where you've been broken, damaged,
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: put through a lot of things, forced to grow up
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: really early, witnessing trauma, witnessing abuse, addiction in the family, death,
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: those things are going to leave invisible marks. And so
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: you definitely are going to discover in your parenthood journey
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: that these wounds are there. The bad news, I think
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: there's good news and bad news here. The good news
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: is I love that you see it and I love
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: that you're willing to work on it. The bad news
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: is I do not think you can pre-work on a
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: lot of it. You can start a conversation. You can
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: start a therapeutic relationship. You can start taking historical inventories
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: and remembering what your childhood was like. But the day
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: I held my infant in my hands, the very first
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: day I became a dad, That was not a day
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: where I knew or remembered what it was like to
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: have a 15 year old. Like that's, that's not my day, right?
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to experience that parenting challenge that day.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: That day I'm like, I don't know how to hold
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: a kid. I'm learning how to hold babies for the
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: first time. And I'm going through unique challenges, but like
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: the parenting I'm feeling and the challenges I'm feeling at
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: that stage are just unique to that stage. And there
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: wasn't an amount of therapy I could have done when my,
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: like from pregnancy to birth. That would have covered my
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: kid for the next 18 years. And like, now I'm
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: a whole healed person together. My child and I, my
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: children and I raised each other, right? Like they raised
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: me very much to the version of a dad that
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: I existed in, in 2010, when my son was born
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: is not the dude that I am in 2026. So like,
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: you're going to go through these iterations of discovery as
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: your children grow. And as you go through different stages
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: of life with them, and it's in those iterations that
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: you're suddenly going to have these epiphanies. And realize like,
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: oh shit, like why did I just snap at my
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: kid like that? Like I remember the first time my
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: son like spoke disrespectfully to my wife. And I just, like,
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: I way overreacted. And even she was like, the fuck? Like,
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: calm down. He's a little kid. Like, because she's, like,
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: a well-adjusted school teacher. So she's like, this is normal.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: They always shit on me.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Like, whatever.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: There's a right way to, like, no thank you. You know, like,
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: there's a right way to, you know. And I'm, like,
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: you know, fucking reaching for the belt. How dare you? Yeah, I'm, like,
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: going to go cut a fucking switch. And I was like, yeah.
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: She's like, dude.
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: That is my wife. Yeah, how? No, honestly, because, like,
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: that was the generation I grew up in. It's like,
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: you will not speak to my wife that way. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like,
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: I'm some dude at the bar. You know, like, it's
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: my fucking mom.
• 54:31
  Speaker 6: Like, yeah.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: I'm the only teenage boy in history who's ever disrespected
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: his mom. But, like, I'm getting drug outside for a
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: fist fight with my father. Like, you know, I'm some
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: fucking guy at a bar.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: You ever see the video this comedy group did of, like,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: this guy that goes to his friend's house. And his
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: friend just had a baby. And he's picking a fight
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: with the baby.
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: And he's like... And he's like.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: He's like... fuck you looking at?
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: It's a problem. Get your boy. You better put your
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: boy in check. Yeah. But no, honestly, like, but like
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: that was not a part of me that I knew
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: was in there when my kid was a baby.
• 55:09
  Speaker 6: It like surprises you.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It wasn't until he was a certain like visual
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: size and he, he seemed more of a bigger person.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: And then he had a little tone in his voice
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: that suddenly this rage came out of me that didn't
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: match the moment. Or like the first time they got
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: like a bad grade because they didn't do their homework
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: or something. And like, you know, for me, I had
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: like some weird shit go down, like in childhood that
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: had to do with homelessness. So like for me, when
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: my kids don't do well. I suddenly panic and I'm like,
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: Oh my God, you're going to fail in life and you're, you're,
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: everything's going to fall apart. Like you're going to be poor.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: And like, I failed you. And it's like, I have
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: to be pulled aside. Like, Hey, calm the fuck down, Jim.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: Like it is just math. You failed these children. The
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: way that you need to worry about failing these children.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: But writer, there's no amount of therapy I could have
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: done in 2010 when I was waiting for the birth
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: of my son to deal with the version of Jim
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: that would emerge in you know, uh, 2026 when my
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: son is 16 years old and like a junior in
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: high school and like dealing with shit. So like my,
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: my point is the good news is the work can
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: be done. The work should be done. The bad news
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: is you cannot pay that debt all at once. It
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: is a lifelong journey for you because you became who
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: you are through a lifelong journey. And so that cannot
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: just be corrected in one big, you know, effort, one
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: hard intensive weekend. But you can make down payments on
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: it by doing some really deep introspective work, inner child work,
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: starting an inventory, doing a trauma timeline, as Nick said.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of doing a genogram. I think
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: if you're really working on family of origin stuff, a
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: genogram is like an enhanced family tree that doesn't just
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: tell who begat who. It also identifies who is an alcoholic,
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: what was going on with health stuff, what were dynamics psychologically,
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: emotionally involved. Was there abandonment? Or you could mind your
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: own fucking business. You could do that too. But for
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: your truth, feel free to do the genogram if that's
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: what you'd like to do. But yeah, I feel like
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: stuff like that, Ryder, allows you to.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Sort of map out.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know why you're asking me all these.
• 57:10
  Speaker 8: Questions, kid.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: They didn't teach you this stuff in life coaching?
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they skipped that chapter. He was out sick that day.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: But yeah, this stuff, I think, Ryder, allows you to
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: sort of zoom out and begin to give yourself the
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: foundation that you will then come back to over and
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: over and over again. And getting to the place where
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: you're comfortable talking about that. Like a lot of times
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: you don't talk to your spouse or your therapist about it.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: You talk to your spouse about it. Like you're raising
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: a kid and then all of a sudden you look
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: to your spouse. You're like, hey, today this happened and
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: I felt this kind of way about it. And I
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: connected to Dot and realized that's how I was when
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: I was 15. I was like reacting in that vein.
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: And like for me, like I really grew by watching
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: my father-in-law. My father-in-law had four kids, three sons. And
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: like watching him and my mother-in-law parent their kids differently
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: because I married so young that when I married into
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: their family, my brother-in-laws were still in school. Like the
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: youngest ones are fifth grade. Brothers-in-law. Thank you. I just
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: want to correct that before Froyo does. So like I
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: was watching them parent their young boys and seeing how
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: fundamentally different that was than what my family had been like.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: And that really planted a lot of seeds of like, whoa, dude,
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: you've got some fucked up ideas. You're going to need
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: to keep doing personal work before you have kids. And
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: then as I had my kids and having that extra
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: generation above me to consult with and get notes on,
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: that helped. There was a lot of times my father
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: would pull me aside and be like, Hey, man, I
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: witnessed this and no notes. This is your kid. You
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: do whatever you got to do. Are you okay, though?
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: You want to talk about that, man? Because I don't
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: think your kid did anything wrong. I think your reaction
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: was like a 10. Oh, yeah. It probably was too big. That's,
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: I think, how we grow as a village.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: It is nice to know. That I'm not the only
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: one trying to hold you together.
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's a group project. Yeah. It
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: takes a village. It takes a village to raise Jim.
• 58:59
  Speaker 6: One would say it sounds like dad vice he was getting.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: Oh. well that was obviously the plug thank you whitney
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: dad vice book.com i think is the url.
• 59:10
  Speaker 6: Advice from his father-in-law yeah.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: It's just passing on the advice But yeah, this is
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: a really good question, man. I love that the writer's
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: thinking these thoughts. I just don't think it gets solved
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: in a day. The other thing, writer, to take a
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: look at, do a little reading on adult children of alcoholics. Oh, yeah. Koa. Yeah.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Because a lot of this that you're kind of talking
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: about sounds like, you know, this is kind of textbook
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: stuff of stuff that you go through.
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: And so I think you might find that to be
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: helpful and maybe a little bit enlightening as well if
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: you haven't already looked into that.
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: That's a great point. Ryder, thank you for doing this work.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: This is something that I've been seeing all these TikToks
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: lately that women are celebrating like men who are like
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: going to therapy and it's like the new bit but
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: there was this really funny one where these guys are
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: like super self-enlightened because they go to therapy but they're
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: still absolute trash like they're still douchebags but they're just
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: aware of it and they're able to articulate what they're
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: doing they're like yeah so i'm gaslighting my ex you
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: know to make her feel inferior so she'll come back
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: and let me hit that and then i'm gonna leave
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: her on the curb like what the fuck are you
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: doing like i have a broken inner child and i
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: just have like all these unresolved issues of abandonment and
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: superiority and i just need that to feel better about
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: myself like Okay.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was going to say, too, to the writer,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: that is the thing, weirdly, Jim's thing just reminded me,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: that is the thing that... What kind of will happen
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: going to therapy is that you will become more familiar
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: with kind of what's going on in your own brain.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: And like, as those thoughts and feelings kind of happen,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: it just equips you a little more to be familiar
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: with what's going on and what's coming into your head.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: And you go like, oh, this is probably just what
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: this is. I am feeling like that, like, oh, my
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: son did just roll his eyes at my wife and
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: I am in a bit of a rage right now.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: That's probably what's going on. It's this and it's– okay.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Too bad I already slapped my kid. That's a shame.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: It's funny. We've had to make parenting changes because of
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: some of those things. Like you realize what your strengths
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: and weaknesses are. But like one of my triggers is
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: if the kids are not doing well academically, I will overreact.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: I will tiger mom that shit. But my spouse is
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: a professional educator. She is the more equipped parent. She
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: can handle that. So like, I don't get to check
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: the grades. I don't get to know about the assignments.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: I'm not the dad that keeps track of the grades
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: because I will not be very helpful because I'll be like,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: this thing's due in a week. What have you done
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: about it? And they're like, dude, it's due in a week. Like,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: I'm fine. I'll get it done this weekend. I'm like, oh,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: you're just going to put it off, huh? And then
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: you're just going to be homeless one day. I'm like,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: Jesus Christ, Dad. I will get it done.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: Jim's got a tent set up in the backyard to
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: make sure they're reminded.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Of what it feels like. You've thrown your life away.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 6: You're going to live in a van down by the river.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 9: You're not working so hard.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: For you to throw it all away.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Jim's just immediately explaining how to use newspaper as insulation.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 6: I will prepare you.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: You shove this newspaper. You get a whole newspaper into
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: one pair of pants. You just shove it all down
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: in there. It will keep you warm. It is shocking.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: Let me teach you how to do this anyway. Ryder,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: good for you for doing the work. I respect that
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: as a co-parent myself, and I hope that's something that's
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: out there. If any of you are going through a
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: new life transition, if you've come through things and survived things,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: have that generational trauma, bring that work and do that work.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: Because otherwise, as Nick said, if you do not transform it,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: it will be transferred. It will go forward.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: Make the pattern end with you. We're going to take
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: a quick break, and when we come back, we're talking
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: about family involvement in dating.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Hot.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: You're listening to Pod Therapy. It's another Pornhub channel. Oh, shit.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Browning Jr.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Men's Kayla Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain. Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin, Lib. Hey, yo,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: Andrew Langby, Chad Meg, Inka LaFrance, and Dale the King.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: And if you'd like to sponsor the show, become a
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: therapist through patreon.com slash therapy. All right, Jimmy. Old pirates, yes,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: they rob I. Said I to the merchant ships. Minutes
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: after they took I from the bottomless pit. But my
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: hand was made strong. By the hand of the Almighty.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: Oh, Jesus.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: We forward in this generation triumphantly.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, God. Is it a gospel hymn or something?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: That would have been a baller move. By Jesus. I'm
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: going to say 925 Dolly Parton.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not going to. All right.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: Well, then there we go.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Okay. You're clearly out. Yep.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 6: What would you do with a drunken sailor?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: Oh, no. Are you asking or is that?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's your little guess.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: No, that's my guess.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: Oh, no.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Damn it.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: No, sorry. The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Fuck, you know,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: I didn't even think of doing that one. It's a
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: great one.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: It is a good one.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Honestly, if you'd had any of that one, I think
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: I would have gotten that one. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: And I would have read the whole thing.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: Yes. It's one of those monologue songs. Clear the question board. Okay.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: It's literally a song. It's like a story put to
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: music about the wreck of a ship.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 6: Okay, okay.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: That'd be great. The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: I'll give you a hint.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, think as you hear this, you got to think reggae.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Old pirates, yes, they rob eye, set eye to the
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: merchant ships. Minutes after they took eye from the bottomless pit.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I think I need you to do
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: the accent. No woman will cry. Yes.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: That would really help. Yeah, I just did.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: That was my best attempt at a Jamaican accent. Redemption song,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: Bob Marley.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, there you go.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 6: I was like, well, it's Bob, but.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly. All right, Whitney.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: I've got so much honey. The bees envy me. I've
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: got a sweeter song than the birds in the trees.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Theme song from the bee movie starring Jerry Seinfeld.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess you'd say, what could make me feel
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: this way?
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: Oh, yep. I got it.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 6: Read it one more time.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: I've got so much honey. The bees envy me. I've
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: got a sweeter song than the birds in the trees. Well,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: I guess you'd say, what could make me feel this way?
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: I got it. Finally, Jim's going to fucking get one.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: If it gets around to you.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it might not. The horn's dangerous over there. My girl.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 5: Fuck!
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: My girl. I say, what can make me feel this way?
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: The Temptations. Yes. Nice. Well done.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 7: Wow.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 6: I got half a point. All right.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Last one, Jacob.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: Here we go. There's no chance. Let's go around and jump. Man.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: That would have been my moment.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 6: Thank you, Jacob.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: Here you go, Jacob.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: He used to carry his guitar in a gunny sack.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: Oh, hell yeah.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: Go sit beneath the trees by the railroad track. Oh,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: the engineers would.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: See him sitting in the shade.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: The people passing by would stop.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: And say, oh my, how that little country boy can say, oh, go.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: You can't help but fuck it up. Do it. I
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: got it. I got the song. I got that's the
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: right song.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the lyrics were wrong.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: The thing that you were doing on the microphone was wrong.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: What does he say? Oh my, that little country boy
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: can play. Oh my, that little country boy can play. Go, go.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: You're adding words. Oh my, how that little country boy
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: can play. Oh my, that little country boy. Oh, it's
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: not how that little bunch of.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: Oh my... What that little country boy could play.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, we were both wrong. It's what?
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 6: What?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: It is Johnny B. Goode by, oh, it was just
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: in my head. Oh, yeah. Michael J. Fox. That's it. Oh,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: what was his name? He was just in my head.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: I could see him. That counts.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: I'll give that to you.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: I'll give you a hint. While Michael J. Fox is-
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: Chuck Berry. There it is. I was going to say Marvin.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: His cousin Marvin Berry calls him during the song and say,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: listen to this. You know that new sound you've been
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: looking for? Charles Berry.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: Good job. All right, everybody. Well done. We're doing really good.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: Family involvement in dating. Hey, guys. You want to play
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: the porn music for this?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: I'm a 31-year-old woman.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: Ooh.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: And I've been dating my boyfriend for about six months. Ooh,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: it's a lady. It's a lady. Ooh, a lady. Drinking
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: my Cavossier. Things are going really well, and I'm starting
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: to think this could actually become a long-term relationship. The
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: one thing I'm struggling with is how involved his family
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: is in our relationship. His mom and sister seem to
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: know almost everything about us. If we have an argument,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: they hear about it. If we're making a major decision,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: he talks it over with them. Even some fairly personal
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: things about our relationship have apparently been discussed with them
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: before he and I have had a chance to work
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: through them ourselves. Recently, we had a disagreement about something
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: pretty minor, and the next day his sister called me
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: to check in. She was friendly and clearly meant well,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: but she started giving me advice about how I should
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: handle things with her brother. I was caught completely off guard.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: I told my boyfriend afterward that it made me uncomfortable,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: and his response was basically... Look, they care about me
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: and want to make sure that I'm okay. I completely
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: understand wanting your family to have your back, but I
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: also feel like our relationship should primarily belong to the
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: two of us. At what point does being close with
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: your family cross the line into allowing them to have
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: too much influence over your relationship? Is this something I
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: should be concerned about now or am I being overly sensitive?
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: And if this is a boundary issue, how do you
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: establish boundaries with your partner's family? without creating resentment or
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: making it seem like you're trying to separate Thank you, Anonymous.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: Pronouns are she, her. I don't know when it crosses
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: the line, but this one has.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah. I don't know when it officially did, but it's there.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know where the line was. It was back
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: there somewhere. It's like off sides. You know when you
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: see it. Yikes.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 6: In six months, a six-month-old relationship.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: How old are you?
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 6: Did they say how old?
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 8: 31.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 6: 31-year-old female. I know.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 4: And I feel like in your 30s, you know pretty
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: quick if you like someone, like, You can see it
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: being long-term. And what if everything was really great, everything's great,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: and then there's just one thing?
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 6: Like, what do you do?
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: My, I mean, first thought is, yes, that, as Jacob
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: made clear, that is a boundary issue. I don't love
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: how quickly he shut you down. Like, he didn't even–
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: I don't know. Maybe he was just feeling defensive. But
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: I would revisit it with your partner again. Also– I
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: don't know how comfortable you feel doing this, but if
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: something like that happened again, the sister, the mom, whoever's
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: calling you to check in and then kind of is
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: giving advice on how to manage your partner, I would
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: probably very politely, but stop them, but assertively like, hey,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: I don't really need your input or advice on this.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: I appreciate you trying to help, but... I'd rather just
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: talk with my partner about that. And I think that's
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: also where maybe it sounds like it caught you off
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: guard in this case. So I'm not saying, oh, you
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: should have done that last time. But I would say
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: now that you know that could be a thing, I
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: would plan or practice or prepare to kind of give
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: that speech.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 6: And probably more than once.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: How do you feel about the boyfriend confiding in his sibling,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: confiding in his mother that Okay. In a world in
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: which the writer was able to set the boundary with
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: sister and mother, be like, hey, guys, I'm not going
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: to police what he tells you guys, but that cannot
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: fully loop back over to me. This is not a conference.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: We're not going to run to the spy committee. Don't
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: call me. Talk to him, right? But in a world
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: in which you discovered that your boyfriend is Just wearing
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: a wire and just like he's coming back to them
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: for everything. He's like, oh, yeah, you know, we have
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: this minor disagreement and there's even intimate details that like
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: he's discussing with them. How do you feel about that?
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: Something I would probably tell your boyfriend, if I were you,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: that maybe he's not thinking about, unless he's done this
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: in past relationships, I wonder how that's gone down.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 6: So I would be curious.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, he definitely has. This is definitely not new.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 6: How did this go before? But I would probably also
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 6: explain to him.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: Well, he was single when she met him. That's right.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: Hopefully.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: Presumably. Or he wasn't. Whatever.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 6: But I would say that.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: I mean let him know– you got to be careful
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 4: sharing all the things in your relationship with your family
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: because let's say you are upset or your partner is
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: upset with you.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 6: They tell their mom, their sister, whoever.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: Now their vision of you is tainted now.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: You can't always change that. Maybe now you're like, oh,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: we're good now. We got in this fight, but we're
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: good now. But they're like, well, she said what to
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: you and did this to you, and that's not good.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: And now we don't like her even though you are
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: okay with it now.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 6: Your partner is okay with it.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: I don't even know why she would use that racial slur.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Jim, using the analogy of wearing a wire, I think
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: it could be worse than that.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: Wearing a wire would be okay. Because they just listened.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because my first reaction to this was, do they
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: also hear the good things?
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: Or are they only hearing the negative? That's great.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Because that is very toxic in a relationship where it's
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: like anything bad that happens, I run and tell my
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: family about it. Anything positive happens. That just stays between us.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: But let's get a benefit of the doubt.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: Let's say that the spouse is just attempting to genuinely
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: report just the daily activities.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: Also, just at the end of the day, mom and
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: sis get an update.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 6: Let's play that game.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: Also, not a spouse. Six months in. That's the other component.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: It's girlfriend. Oh, yeah.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: Six months in.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: If that is the case, then I do think that
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: boundaries need to be established.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: Either way.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: Very quickly.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: I do not like relationship with audiences. There's a very
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: big difference to me between you have your counsel, you
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: have your group, you have a best friend, you have
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: a sibling, you have a parent, you have a therapist, right?
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: That you confide in and you're walking through your thoughts
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: with them. And some people do that. That's their thing
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: is like some people are a little bit more self-contained.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: Some people, their emotional balancing, their psychological balancing requires a
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: committee and they just, that's how they process. They emotionally
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: process by calling their best friend and going, I just
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: need to talk this out with you. And like, hopefully
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: the best friend has the emotional maturity to understand the assignment.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: I'm holding space for you to walk in and hear
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: yourself sing in the shower here. So this is just
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: you hearing your own voice. I'm going to not draw conclusions.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to respond to this. That's a very hard,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: mature position to hold. And I think a lot of
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: times there's a big difference between that, which is seeking
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: a confidant to give you feedback so you can process
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 3: what's going on, versus having an audience. And now we're
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: doing the reality TV show version of the relationship where
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: girlfriend has to worry, what are my approval ratings right now?
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: Does the audience approve? Oh, we had this bad fight.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: Now he's going to go fucking tell these people. And
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: I'm constantly wondering what my poll numbers are with the observers.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: And that's really fucking unhealthy. And I've seen this like
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: manifest in a lot of different ways, not just siblings
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: and parents, friendship groups, like the couple will have other
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: couples friends. And one of the members of the couple
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: will go like, put this person on trial or put
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: them on trial in social media sometimes, or let the
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: church know about it. And like, just there's no privacy.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: And because like, it's a relationship with a window, it's really,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: really difficult to establish this sense of like sacred trust
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: and mutual vulnerability. And like, That I'm not going to
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: be judged. If I one step off the line here,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: everybody that matters in our human ecosystem is going to
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: know about it. Super dangerous.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: So I'll give you an example of what a boundary
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: would look like because this happened and you, Jim, talked
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: about it on the show. So I'll bring it up.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: Okay. Perfect.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: The time that we had a text message and you
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: posted it.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: On instagram oh jesus that was like year one yeah
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: it was it wasn't year one but it was early
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: it was early we were still making friends with ics
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: that's what it was about.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah because you took a screenshot of it posted on
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: instagram yeah and so my reaction to you yeah was
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: i said hey just so you know if i believe
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: that anything that happens in our text thread could become
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: public information That is going to drastically change how we communicate.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: And so it wasn't like a threat. I didn't say, hey,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: don't ever do this again.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: It was just like, hey, this is just the reality. Right.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 6: That's the boundary.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: This changes how this goes.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: I'm letting you know how I view this.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: And I'm letting you know.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 6: How I will adjust my behavior.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: I'm letting you know how I'm going to adjust my
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: behavior because this is what I'm seeing and I'm going
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: to adjust my behavior accordingly.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Heads up. If you're installing cameras all over our house,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to walk around naked anymore. That's the
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: creation you've done. Or I'm going to charge extra for it. Patreon.com
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: slash therapy, ladies and gentlemen.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: I often wonder if the people over at Ring Cameras just,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: you know, they've got to just see everything, right?
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. They know everything.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 7: Wow.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: Cause like there are ring cameras like around my house.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 4: I was just going to say, what are your, I mean,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 4: if you work, do y'all have, do you have cameras
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: in your house?
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 6: Like what's the vibe around here?
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. In is different.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: In the house is different, but like outside and stuff like, yeah,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: I'm walking around without clothes outside all the time.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you work at ring, you don't even
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: need Pornhub.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: No, but going back to your point though, that was,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: that's an excellent example of like, here we were having this,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: you know, we had a business relationship. We were trying
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: to do all this new stuff. And yeah, like here
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: I was thinking, oh, this makes sense in my brain.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like this violates our conversation rules, whatever.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: But like that's a one-sided consent, right? And so we
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: don't have dual consent. And that's what you were alerting
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: me to back then is like, look, if you're going
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: to do that, then we don't have– this is not
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: a private conversation. I won't treat it that way. And
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, well, I need you to. I need
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: you to be able to talk to me and confide
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: in me and what we're talking about at the moment.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: And so I think this is a great example of
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: the relationship. I love that example because telling your partner, yeah, hey,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: if everything we go through and talk about and even
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: our sex life is something I have to know is
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 3: going to be scrutinized by everybody else and there's going
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: to be a committee voting on what I do, you
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: need to know that's going to change how vulnerable I
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: can be with you, what kind of relationship we get
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: to have. And that also I think changes– do I
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: want that? Like that's a good question. That's the thing.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: It's like– and it may be. I'm assuming. I understand
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: I'm making a assumption.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that your partner has behaved this way in
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: the past, and I'm assuming that's why your partner was
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: available when you came along. Yeah, I mean sometimes it
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: might just be like, hey, this is not the relationship
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: that I signed up for. And I would suggest really
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: taking an inventory of yourself and kind of figuring out–
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: let's say that things don't change. Let's say– I'm assuming
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: that the guy is around 30 as well. Let's say
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: that the things with your 30-ish boyfriend don't change, which
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: they might not because he's made it 30 years behaving
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: this way.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: So who knows?
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: So if they don't change, is this relationship viable for you? Right.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 4: Are you okay with that if he still just tells
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: his family?
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Like is this something you can get used to?
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: Because if it's not– I'd deal with it now.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 6: It's like a big deal.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: Because it's going to be a problem. How do we
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: do that? If it's a problem now, I mean, I
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: don't know how to do it other than to have
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: a conversation about it. Well, I appreciate Ryder saying, I'm
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: worried that I'm going to come off as a bitch. Yeah. Because, like,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: let's be real. There's a bad look that can be
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: had here where the woman says, I don't like you
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: talking to your mom. I don't like you talking to
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: your family. Because at some point, he's going to tell
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: them that. Oh, I wouldn't phrase it that way. Even
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: if that's to establish the boundary. If he goes to
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: them and says, hey, listen, mom, sis. Yeah. Whitney doesn't
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: like me talking to you guys as much, so she
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: feels like we need to have a private relationship, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: And they could easily Google that shit and be like,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: she's a narcissist. She's a psychopath. She's trying to separate
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: you from people. Yeah, she just– I heard she hates pergolas. Yeah,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: like there's a– right? Like there is a dangerous way
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: to thread that needle because I can see it backfiring
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: on the writer where they look like they're trying to
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: cut you away from your support.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: And this is why I say like– You got to
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: sit down first and figure out where your head's at
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: with this.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: Because once you figure that out, then the answers to
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: those questions don't matter.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: Okay. However, you come across as you're trying to fix it.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: If you, if you figure out like, this isn't a
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: problem that I can get past, like it's either fix
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: the problem or jettison this relationship now.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: Like if you're going to go through and try to
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: fix it, I mean, I would say speak genuinely to
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: your partner about it.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: Right. Explain all the things that we've.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: Kind of been saying where you do have– you have
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: to have some kind of privacy to that relationship for
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: it to work.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: I like Nick's way of verbalizing it, which is like
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: if you're going to treat our relationship like there are
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: no secrets, I will have to live as if that's true,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: and that will affect my relationship with your sister and
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: your mother. Like they'll try to call me and I'm
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: going to push back and say, no, thank you. And
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: then they're going to feel some kind of way about that.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: And you've just created a conflict between all the women
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: in your life that didn't need to exist. So I
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: don't want that to happen. But if that's what you're
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: going to keep doing, you need to understand the natural
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: consequences of that choice.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like what Dr. Phil uncut. uh, had
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: said at one point, I have a circumcision.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: Uh, we teach people how to treat us.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: That was the only good thing he said, but, uh,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: it was, it was good. And he probably, he probably
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: took it from somebody else, but anyway, uh, Oprah.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: But like in this particular case, it's like, yeah, if
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: he continues this behavior, uh, He is going to change
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: the way that she interacts with him and probably not
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: for the positive.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 6: Well, that's where I would go. I mean, yes, sure.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 4: What Jim said, like this will affect my relationship with
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: your mom and sister, but more so, I don't know
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 4: how this wouldn't affect our relationship. And that would be
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 4: really tough. Is that some, are you okay with that?
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: Or like, what do you want? And kind of just
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: push it back on them if they're like, well, no,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: I like being close with you. I want to, I
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: want to have our relationship. Our private relationships. I still
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: want to have sex with you.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 6: Well, don't tell your mom about it.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: Before we have this conversation, let's get your mom and
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: my mom on a conference call.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: Let's all talk about it together. Or, I just thought
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: of this. You could flip it. You could start talking
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: to his mom. Oh, yeah. Make this his problem. Yeah.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: You're going to be like, fair game. Your son and
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: I had sex.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: Let me tell you about it.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 3: He's been weirdly aggressive lately. You know, he's just like,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: he's really just getting really violent. At first I was
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: into it, but now I'm kind of scared. Can you
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: talk to him about that? When he was a young child,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: tell me about how he cried.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: Yes what way did he was he an angry crier
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: was he yeah sorry having those conversations oh he that
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: is he went back right the fuck we can fix
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: this yeah.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 9: This is more jacob knows oh this is an achievable
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 9: this is an achievable this is that old adage the
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 9: answer to bad free speech is more free speech yeah
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 9: like this is just we don't need to cut anybody
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 9: off we just.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: You want to bring mom into this cool Break the system.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: I've got somebody that I would love to have a
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: conversation with. Yeah, I want to throw all my votes
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 3: behind Jacob's solution. That is just the correct answer. On
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: this Dr. Phil point, we have a section in our
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 3: Discord called Member Bios where anybody in our Discord can
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: introduce themselves to the community. It's a great way for
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 3: us to get to know the people that we hang
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: out with. And we have a member in there named
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: Gavin who just wrote a really delightful introduction about themselves
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: and where they live and all this stuff. I just
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: wanted to read the last part of it because that
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: was really funny. Thank you so much. P.S. I live
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: my life secure in the belief that Dr. Phil is circumcised.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: Well done, Gavin. But who cut him? But who cut him?
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: It was his rabbi.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: Who was his moil? That's it, the moil. Oh, man. Anyway, Ryder.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: Bill definitely does not know the word moil. Does not know.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: But you know what? This is a great question. I
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: think this is going to be one that if you're
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: not already with us at Patreon, just remember you go
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: to patreon.com slash therapy for as little as a dollar
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: if you really wanted to. You drop a dollar in
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: the hat, you get access to our Discord. One of
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: the best things about our show is every week when
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: our show airs on Wednesdays for all the Patreon subscribers,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: They take to the Discord and starting in East Coast time,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: sometimes starting in international time, but usually we post the
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: episodes 12 a.m. West Coast time on Wednesdays for the patrons.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: So I guess that's 3 a.m. East Coast time. They
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: immediately jump into the Discord as they're listening. And there
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: are listeners who are the first ones to comment and
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 3: discuss the questions. And then as the sun moves across
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: the world, everybody that's hearing the show after their morning commute,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: they'll jump into the Discord. They'll comment. They'll find other
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: people's thoughts and takes. They'll add their own takes to
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: the questions. And it really becomes this great library of
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: just all these other stories and takes and deeper explorations.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: People will post links to research and to things that
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: back up different perspectives. Sometimes they'll give us some pushback
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: and be like, hey, more thoughts on your answer. I
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: feel like you were kind of short-sighted on this. Here's
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: another way to look at it. We get feedback all
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: the time. So yeah, I would encourage you, writer, if
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: you're not already part of the community, join it. That's
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: a great place to get feedback on this one. So patreon.com
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: slash therapy. I think you will enjoy that feedback, but
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: There's no question the correct answer is just make the
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: mom and the sister uncomfortably more involved in this. Oh, yeah, yeah. No,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: I think you could easily flip this on the guy.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: What a good idea. How long has your son been
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 3: into butt stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're doing a lot
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: of mommy role play, and I just wanted to get
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 3: some notes.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have heard of oral fixations, but this
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: is ridiculous.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: How do you make his grilled cheese? Because I want
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: to incorporate that.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 6: Oh, my gosh.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: Do you have any pet names that you use for
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: him that I could borrow in the bedroom? I mean,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: so many things that he does seem hurtful to himself.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: I just don't understand it. Can I call you Mama?
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: I feel like I want to call you Mama. If
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: I could just get a recorder. You could just make
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: this happen.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: Please record that and send it to us.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: Or you can just play this part for your boyfriend
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: and be like, hey, this is my other option.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: Your move. This is your move. We're going to take
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 3: a quick break, and when we come back, we're wrapping
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: up the show. You are listening to Pod Therapy.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie Jr. Mint,
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: Kayla Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin, Libby, Hey, yo,
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  Speaker 2: Andrew Langmead, Chad Meg, Inka LaPrinz, and Dale the King.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: Would you like to sponsor the show?
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: Become a therapist through patreon.com slash therapy.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: As we wrap up the show, I want to remind
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: you to go to patreon.com slash therapy and get our
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: extended show ad free a day earlier, as well as
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: enjoy our live chat discord community and our nine-year library
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: of deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research, roundups, rants. It
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: is all in there. And at the beginning of every month,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: at least for now, until season 10 when I'm not
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: doing this shit anymore, we thank all of our theropods
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: on up to make sure that our community is recognized.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: We want to thank Brian Lehman, University Jeff, Richard Bruins,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: Robert Paulson, Linda Brandmeier, Scoopstronaut, Joseph Pangrazio, Corey Owens, Christine Phillips,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: Gavin Bristow, Take It EEV Podcast. Carrie Terhart, Kiwi Fruit Scoop,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: Craig Little, Jim Hunter, Scoopatron, Todd Canfield, David Sorensen, Felicia Butler,
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: Shayla Bullock, Lauren Izzo, Katie Chumakowski, Adam Petanuzzo, Matt's Lenegrin,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: Scoopator Ascending, That Josh Guy, What Weekend, Mama Ninja Scoop,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: James Dawson, Grumpy, Lake Mead, Park Ranger, Sam Buck, Karen McCulloch, Kimist, Lila,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 3: Kelly Gagner, Nippy, Brian Emra, Matthew Johnson, Alec Lancaster, Julius Kappel, J.D. Congan,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: Drew Halogy, Matthias Van De Brant, Ken Tinsley, Phil Flindy, nice,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 3: Freya Lawson, Timu Ricky Gervais, Tuffy the AMFT Therapist Bear,
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 3: Matthew Kubik, Chad Chad the Safety Lag, Scoop Knack Paddywhack,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 3: Almost Doctor Nurse Joey, Kirka Grimm, Philip Guyton, Tim Mystery,
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 3: Melissa L. Geisler, Trisha Ortiz, G-Way DJ Seawert, Mississippi Hippie,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 3: Scott A., Trontastic, Patty Glad, Heather W., Anthony Camerata, Adam Goff, Kyle,
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: David Williams, Kate Police, Jameeby, Buddy Dobbins, Kernipillar, Eric Dyer,
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 3: Persephone Hazard, Glitch Scoop, Nathan Mookie, Bug Nuts, Stephen Landon,
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 3: Aletta Belays, Adam Balazs, John Finlayson, VoteGym.net is a scam.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: How dare you? No, it is not. Please go to VoteGym.net
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 3: every day, every device. I am running for best Las
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: Vegas again. Kenneth Wong, Carmen Perry, K Pizzle, Dizzle, Robert Cole, KJ, Mr. Poth,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: Jeff Darnell, Temporary Reality, Jacob Hurt, Ben Sherman, Ray J. Shark,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 3: Silke Daniels, Recreated, Alex Jardine, Kay Trauma, Sherry Hare, Jacob B.,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: Ashling Carton, Dylan Colopy, Linus Hakasan, Wolfie05, Chris Courtney, Kevin Tribe,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: Cedar Hayden, Terrible Tay, Grace, Itty Bitty Chicken Farmer, Sam,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 3: Kay Matthews, Chili Food, John Cavaradis, Biathlon Anna, Zachary W.,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 3: Almanda Nora, Charm City Therapist, Jereva, Scoop Bucky, Squabby the Listician,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 3: Salmon Scoop, Winter Scoop, LC, Chris, Cloudy Pies, Hunter McRae,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: Andreas SM, Matthew Connor, Neck Pubes, BB Hermit, SC Platypus,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 3: Sam Mervs, Rene OK, Kyle Charton, Sherry Phillips, Matt, Chelsea Saracen,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: Emily Cope, Garrett Godfrey, Gavin Williams, Nat Walk, Tanya Macri, Cod, Bob,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 3: Peas and Clams, Sunrise, Finn, Raynal Beads, Tom Power, AI
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: or Al, and Shartfire, Christy, Valentino Gomez, Claudia Duhan, Joseph Wagner,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: and Scoop Shooter.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 6: And we have our third actles.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 4: Scoop Brady, Ice-Bully Scoop, Frozen Custer, Andrea Anderson, Scoop Lindsey,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 4: Lori Elsroth, Polygon, Scoopy Scoopy Jess Jess, Sai Shanagon, Okie Scoop,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 4: Dank Butter, Brooks Lyle, Adam Ribchick, Lovely Spark, Badumts, Jim
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 4: and Manu, Akwethi Kwethant, Casey Minter, my bitch I love you,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 4: Momi Damate, Mike Lush, Rebecca Boonstra and Rianna Zra.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 6: You're welcome.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: Nailed it. And of course, we'd like to thank the benevolent, revered, generous,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 3: and flagrantly pro-therapy diehard who loves you all so much
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: they give till it hurts, our Thera partner, Pickett. Pickett.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 3: And we want to thank our bosses, the mysterious and
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 3: shrouded Illuminati members of the fan club, the Thera producers.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Jr. Mintz, Smitty Scoop,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 3: Richard fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Leon Kassab, Carolyn Albert,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Sammy Scoop, Slurpy Kaye, Motherfucker,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 3: Ben Stanley, Slapping Your Face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Byler T,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 3: Mike Helm, Oscar Suanros, Paris, A Sunny Boy, Darren Cunningham, Lib,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 3: Cinder McWaffle, Team Monaco, Thunder, Cougar, Falcon, Scoop, Heyo, Hannah Marie,
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: Andrew Langmead, Emma, Tonka, and Pony Soprano. And if you'd
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: like to hear this episode uncut and unedited... And why
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: wouldn't you? Who raised him? And enjoy our spontaneous side projects,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 3: go to patreon.com slash therapy. And thank you for supporting
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 3: Mental Health. That's all the time we've got for this
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: week's session. We want to thank our landlords, Matt Madeline's
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 3: Ice Cream Social Podcast, and thanks to those of you
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: who contributed to our show today. We really appreciate it. Remember,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 3: pod therapy isn't something you should keep all to yourself.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: Share the episode with the world. Tag us on the
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: socials when you do. It's at podtherapyguys on Instagram, threads,
• 1:31:54
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• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: about all the extra goodies at patreon.com slash therapy.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: Do you want to submit a question to the show?
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: You can ask anonymously at podtherapy.net, email us at podtherapyguys
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: at gmail.com, or click the link in the episode description
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: to be taken to our anonymous Google form.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 3: I'm Nick.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 6: I'm Whitney.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: I'm Philip J. McGraw.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: Thanks, and we'll see you for your appointment next week.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 6: Doctor.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 5: Dog.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I lost that. I can't even pretend.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 6: You and Phil both.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: That's right. Do you know the Timu Ricky Gervais reference
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: that was in there? No.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: That was from– we had a troll show up in
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: the live chat on ICS a few episodes ago.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: And just my favorite kind of troll because he just
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: came on there and started talking about how not funny
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: we were.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: I had a great time with him. I started reading
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 3: all of his posts. This is great. But at one
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: point he called Matt Donnelly, Timu, Ricky Gervais.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 3: And it was the greatest moment of any of our lives.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 6: Oh my gosh. I think I'd be flattered. I'm like,
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 6: you're comparing me to Ricky Gervais?
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: We had a much better time with this troll than
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: we should have. Oh my gosh.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 6: My god it's a great burn.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 8: Yeah it's solid oh it was so good it was
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 8: so good jessica jane was in the uh was in
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 8: the chat she was watching and uh and she texted
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 8: it to matt before because i think she thought that
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 8: i was trying to save his feelings and not telling
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 8: him about it but i was like saving it for the.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 6: End yeah you're like oh no i'm like oh no.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 3: I was i was coming with oh no we're gonna.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 4: Shine a light on this it's so good i'm waiting
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 4: for the moment yes yes That's precious.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 3: It was great. I love having trolls. I love it.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: That is not true. Pod therapy does not want trolls. Oh,
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: you would not have liked this.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: No, I would have cried. You would not have cared
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: for this person at all. It's the reason we cannot
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: have a live chat. I'll quit mid-show.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 6: I'm out. He's like, bye-bye.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 3: This is the person like, I do not care for Jim.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: I'm gone. Fine. You live without me then.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 5: Bye.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 5: Bye.