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TOT BOY, 2, VANISHES FROM CAMPING TRIP: WHERE IS DEORR? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:06
Speaker 2: Beautiful boy, age two, vanishes from a family camping trip tonight.
0:14
Speaker 1: Where is door? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:19
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.
0:21
Speaker 3: Let's the address of your emergency.
0:24
Speaker 4: I'm actually camping and lead work goes outside of lead work.
0:28
Speaker 4: Uh huh my two year old son. We can't find them?
0:33
Speaker 3: How long has he been missing?
0:35
Speaker 4: About for an hour?
0:37
Speaker 2: Yeah?
0:37
Speaker 3: Are you by water? Yes?
0:39
Speaker 4: Do you know which campground you're in? It's Stone Reservoir,
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Speaker 4: Timber Creek, Stone Reservoir, Yeah, for Timber Creek.
0:47
Speaker 3: Hold on, we needs such and rescue.
0:50
Speaker 2: You are hearing the nine to one one call from
0:52
Speaker 2: the camping area for a two year old little top boy. Absolutely,
0:58
Speaker 2: beautiful baby seemingly vanishes into thin air. Let's listen to
1:05
Speaker 2: more of that nine to one one call.
1:06
Speaker 3: What do we learn, Jessica? Jessica? Yeah, what's your son's name?
1:13
Speaker 1: Okay?
1:13
Speaker 3: What is he wearing?
1:15
Speaker 4: He was wearing cowboy boot a blue like padma pants
1:20
Speaker 4: as a panel jacket, and he's got show you blorn.
1:24
Speaker 3: Here is your husband calling too?
1:27
Speaker 4: Like all down where we were counting at and we
1:30
Speaker 4: can't find her?
1:31
Speaker 3: Mettle Okay, we need you to stay within cell service.
1:34
Speaker 3: We've had people going on on the.
1:35
Speaker 2: Way joining me an all star panel to make sense
1:38
Speaker 2: of what we know right now for us straight out
1:41
Speaker 2: to Nate eighton, joining US news director East Idaho News
1:45
Speaker 2: dot com.
1:47
Speaker 1: Nate, listen to this.
1:49
Speaker 5: Vernal Coons and girlfriend Jessica Mitchell lived together in Idaho
1:52
Speaker 5: Falls with their two year old son Dior. On a whim,
1:55
Speaker 5: Konts and Mitchell decide to take door camping outside Leodor.
1:58
Speaker 5: Mitchell invites along her grandfather, Robert Walton, and a friend
2:02
Speaker 5: of Walton's. The group arrives to Timber Creek campground after
2:05
Speaker 5: dark and sleeps in the next morning. Finishing breakfast around
2:08
Speaker 5: eleven am, Coots, Mitchell and Dior go into town for
2:12
Speaker 5: gas and a few groceries, returning to camp about two
2:15
Speaker 5: hours later.
2:15
Speaker 2: And they leave door with grandpa, who's watching the child.
2:22
Speaker 1: Listen to our friends East Idaho News.
2:24
Speaker 6: Grandpa's watching the child, he tells me. He looks away momentarily.
2:28
Speaker 6: When he looks back, he's gone, and he's assumed he's
2:32
Speaker 6: gone over the bank right where Grandpa's sitting. He's within
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Speaker 6: twenty to thirty yards of the only roadway into the campground,
2:40
Speaker 6: and absolutely no one was seen at that lower campground
2:44
Speaker 6: coming or going.
2:45
Speaker 2: When children are kidnapped, nobody ever sees anyone coming or going.
2:50
Speaker 1: What happened to Dior. In addition to.
2:53
Speaker 2: Nate Eon joining us from East Idaho News Dot Coffee
2:57
Speaker 2: shot to fame during the whole Mom Laurie Valley case.
3:02
Speaker 2: In addition to him is a very well known private investigator,
3:07
Speaker 2: David Mashburn, director of investigations at Search for Me Foundation
3:14
Speaker 2: and a former bounty hunter. I can tell you this,
3:18
Speaker 2: he's been around the block once or twice. Nati, straight
3:21
Speaker 2: out to you. Tell me about the terrain. Where do
3:25
Speaker 2: your went missing?
3:26
Speaker 7: Oh, Nancy, this is a very remote area. You have
3:28
Speaker 7: to take a four wheel drive or an ATV to
3:31
Speaker 7: get back there. When we went out there, you know,
3:34
Speaker 7: it would have ruined our car if it was a
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Speaker 7: small car. It's down a very long, dusty road. There's
3:39
Speaker 7: no cell phone service. There is a creek that runs
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Speaker 7: through that campground. There's a big hill near the campground.
3:45
Speaker 7: There's a reservoir on the other side of the hill.
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Speaker 7: It is extremely remote. It would be very hard for
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Speaker 7: a little boy the age of Dior to get anywhere
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Speaker 7: really in cowboy boots that were bigger than his feet.
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Speaker 2: Door just two years old at the time he goes missing.
4:02
Speaker 2: In addition to investigative reporter and news director Nate Eaton,
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Speaker 2: joining us now special guests David Marshburne, former bounty hunter
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Speaker 2: work for the family. He's a private investigator and director
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Speaker 2: at Search for Me Foundation.
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Speaker 1: David, thank you for being with us. Dave got a question.
4:24
Speaker 2: I want to follow up on the terrain that Nate
4:27
Speaker 2: Eaton was just describing, and before we go any further
4:31
Speaker 2: about what Grandpa did or didn't do wrong. I've had
4:35
Speaker 2: a lot of cases where a child is being watched
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Speaker 2: and in the twinkling of an eye, the child is gone.
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Speaker 2: But I want to talk about this terrain because the
4:46
Speaker 2: way they're telling it, David and I believe Grandpa he's
4:49
Speaker 2: watching the child, looks away momentarily, and he turns around.
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Speaker 1: I don't know how long that moment was.
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Speaker 2: It could have been one minute, it could have been
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Speaker 2: thirty seconds, it could have been thirty minutes. He looks
5:01
Speaker 2: back and Doyor is gone. Now right where Grandpa's sitting.
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Speaker 2: And this is according to the share of Lynn Barrlmann.
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Speaker 1: We just heard talking he's just.
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Speaker 2: Twenty to thirty yards from the only roadway into the campground.
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Speaker 1: Is that right, David Marshburn.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, the terrain is very rough and you have a
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Speaker 8: lot of sage brush, and that's what makes it difficult
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Speaker 8: to move around out there, except for certain little areas
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Speaker 8: that are grassy and you know, just dirt, plain dirt.
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Speaker 2: Question, Dave Marshburn, you brought up something really interesting just
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Speaker 2: imagining this little this little taut in that sage brush.
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Speaker 2: You mentioned sagebrush specifically, why would that make it difficult
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Speaker 2: to move around in impede the search?
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Speaker 8: Well, sagebrush is sort of like a briary book bush
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Speaker 8: that has a lot of hard limbs on it. I
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Speaker 8: mean it just slight walking through a compact of bush.
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Speaker 8: It's just it's very difficult to maneuver around because they
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Speaker 8: all intertwine with one another. You can walk between them somewhat.
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Speaker 8: As an adult, you can stand above it and get
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Speaker 8: around it, but as a two and a half year old,
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Speaker 8: it would be hard to maneuver through it.
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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking through what you're saying, and you would know.
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Speaker 8: As an adult just make sure it like this going
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Speaker 8: through a cornfield. Basically, if you're a two and a
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Speaker 8: half year old going through sagebrush. It's like an adult
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Speaker 8: going through a cornfield.
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Speaker 2: Now, now I can understand what you're saying, David Marshburn.
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Speaker 1: It would be like me going through a corn maze.
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Speaker 2: Got him that he wouldn't be able to see anything.
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Speaker 2: And from where the grandpa was sitting, Dave Marshburn, how
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Speaker 2: far away was the sage brush?
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Speaker 1: Was it right there?
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Speaker 8: It was within fifteen twenty feet of them.
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Speaker 1: Okay, guys, listen to this.
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Speaker 9: By that time, it was almost two and he usually
7:05
Speaker 9: takes his nap. We were just yeah, we said we're
7:10
Speaker 9: going to go a little explore and he was going
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Speaker 9: to be good with grandpa.
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Speaker 1: By the campfire.
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Speaker 8: We were at more than probably.
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Speaker 9: Fifty fifty yards away in ten minutes. I've actually seen
7:19
Speaker 9: there were some things down by a little minnos that
7:20
Speaker 9: I thought he would just love. So when I come
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Speaker 9: back up to get him and I yelled over to Grandpa,
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Speaker 9: whereas you know, where's little Dior?
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Speaker 1: He immediately shocked. This is he came up to.
7:34
Speaker 2: You, Dad and girlfriends speaking to East Idaho News.
7:38
Speaker 1: Okay, let's analyze that.
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Speaker 2: You know, Nate Eaton sadly Nate joining us from East Ida,
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Speaker 2: who news Sadly, when a child goes missing, you always
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Speaker 2: look at the family, and statistically, very often you're looking
7:54
Speaker 2: in the right direction, but almost.
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Speaker 1: As many times it's not the family.
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Speaker 2: So I'm looking at them talking. I want to analyze
8:03
Speaker 2: what they're saying, and that fits hand in glove with
8:06
Speaker 2: what the grandpa was saying.
8:08
Speaker 1: What do you make of what he said.
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Speaker 7: Well, he is insistent that they went to look at
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Speaker 7: the fish. They went to look at the minnows, and
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Speaker 7: when they got back, they thought that Dior was his grandpa.
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Speaker 7: Grandpa thought that Dior was with his parents, and that
8:20
Speaker 7: when they came back, they said, where's door He's gone. Well,
8:25
Speaker 7: they start to search around the campsite. They can't find him.
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Speaker 7: They search fifteen to twenty minutes. That he gets in
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Speaker 7: his truck. He goes to search further. That's when they
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Speaker 7: went down the way to call nine one one because
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Speaker 7: there was no cell phone reception.
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Speaker 10: Nancy.
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Speaker 7: When they came into talk with me, they brought Dior's
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Speaker 7: one of his little monkey toys. They brought his blanket.
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Speaker 7: They seemed very distraught, they seemed upset. They wanted to
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Speaker 7: know where their son was.
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Speaker 2: So Nate Eaton, you're analyzing, as am I every word
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Speaker 2: because every word counts.
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Speaker 1: Take a listen to the County sheer from our friends
9:00
Speaker 1: at East Idaho.
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Speaker 6: They supposedly thought they were turning their child over to
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Speaker 6: their grandfather, the child's great grandfather. They went down to
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Speaker 6: the creek, which is right next to the campground, and
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Speaker 6: within ten to fifteen minutes they go up to find
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Speaker 6: their child to show them some fish in the stream,
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Speaker 6: and he's nowhere to be found. Grandfather assumes he's gone
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Speaker 6: down to them because he was within their line of
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Speaker 6: sight and wasn't too far from the campground. They started
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Speaker 6: their initial search and eventually called nine one one when
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Speaker 6: they realized they couldn't find the child.
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Speaker 2: You know, Dave Marshburne again, you've been working on the case.
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Speaker 1: I want to make sure.
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Speaker 2: That what we're hearing jives with the topography, with the saying,
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Speaker 2: does it make sense what grandpa says, let's start with him.
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Speaker 8: I do not agree with that.
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Speaker 1: Okay, what about the topography does not fit.
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Speaker 8: That scenari because it's not an edge you can just
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Speaker 8: fall off of if you walk to the edge of
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Speaker 8: the right. What the decline is to the creek, you
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Speaker 8: would hit something, that something would stop you before you
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Speaker 8: entered the creek.
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Speaker 1: Is there a way, you know?
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Speaker 2: I had a judge who was the oldest judge in
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Speaker 2: the Fulton County Courthouse and the wisest, I might add,
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Speaker 2: And one thing he told every.
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Speaker 1: Jury, and I know it by heart.
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Speaker 2: It is your duty, members of the jury, to make
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Speaker 2: all witnesses speak the truth and impune perjury on no one.
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Speaker 2: In other words, when various witnesses tell their story from
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Speaker 2: different angles and different lighting and different points of view,
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Speaker 2: I don't expect them to fit like a fingerprint. So
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Speaker 2: hearing what the grandpa is saying that he was watching
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Speaker 2: the boy from that location, he turned away, he says,
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Speaker 2: for a moment. It could be ten minutes. He turns back,
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Speaker 2: and the boy was gone. I don't mean he had
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Speaker 2: to go over a ridge and disappear where the grandpa's
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Speaker 2: sitting could do or have run off to play and
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Speaker 2: gotten out of the grandpa's vision.
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Speaker 8: Yes, he could have just disappeared.
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Speaker 2: Okay, that much I agree with you, David Marshboro. I
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Speaker 2: also agreed that there's not some kind of a ridge
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Speaker 2: like he falls off the end of the earth, and
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Speaker 2: you can't see him anymore, but I do believe that
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Speaker 2: door could have wandered off and be out of his vision,
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Speaker 2: his line of sight. And it's not the first time
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Speaker 2: it's happened.
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Speaker 1: Listen.
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Speaker 11: Cherla was camping with her family here in Moroe Steve Park.
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Speaker 11: Last evening. She went out on a bike ride. It
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Speaker 11: wasn't dark, it was right around dinner time, and did
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Speaker 11: a couple of loops with close friends she considers her cousins.
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Speaker 11: And then she decided after going around Troop Bay, she
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Speaker 11: said she's wanting to go around one more time by
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Speaker 11: her be that big girl, do it by herself. Literally
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Speaker 11: fifteen minutes later she hadn't come back yet, And that's
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Speaker 11: really when the nightmare begins.
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Speaker 2: Of course, we're talking about little Charlotte Cina. She was
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Speaker 2: with her family in remote camping area of State New
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Speaker 2: York and is riding her bike on a loop directly
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Speaker 2: in front of the parents and their relatives that are
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Speaker 2: all there for a big camp out and cookout, going
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Speaker 2: round and round and round and round.
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Speaker 1: With the other children.
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Speaker 2: And the reason I bring up Charlotte, David Marshburne is
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Speaker 2: because that loop that she was riding her bike right
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Speaker 2: there at the campsite with campers and tents around the
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Speaker 2: little loop.
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Speaker 1: She was riding a bike. If you look down.
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Speaker 2: That hill, there was a road and the kidnapper was
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Speaker 2: on that road. He'd been scoping out Charlotte and as
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Speaker 2: she rode her bike to the furthest edge of that loop,
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Speaker 2: he grabbed her.
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Speaker 1: They found her bike. She was found alive.
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Speaker 2: Several days later under a cupboard in a camper the
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Speaker 2: perp pad behind his mother's house she lived.
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Speaker 1: But it was just like that.
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Speaker 2: They were looking at her, they turned to the grill out,
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Speaker 2: they look back, she's gone.
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Speaker 1: It can happen just like that. Marshburn, I agree.
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Speaker 2: So back to the case in chief, it could have
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Speaker 2: happened that way here as well.
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Speaker 1: Do you agree or disagree, Nate Eaton.
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Speaker 10: I think it could have happened very well. Nancy.
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Speaker 7: This, like I said, it's a remote area. And the
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Speaker 7: one thing that we haven't talked about yet that you
13:47
Speaker 7: might want to is.
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Speaker 10: Wild animals are in the area. There's bears, there's wolf dens.
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Speaker 7: There's also mines that are in the area that if
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Speaker 7: you're that are you know, hundreds of years old that
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Speaker 7: if you're walking around and you misstep you could fall
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Speaker 7: into a mine and never be found. So, yeah, the
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Speaker 7: terrain is not it's not one if you decide to,
14:06
Speaker 7: you know, take a two year old out that they're
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Speaker 7: going to get very far.
14:15
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Gray.
14:21
Speaker 3: What's the address of your emergency?
14:23
Speaker 4: I'm an every camping in lad Work, those outside of
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Speaker 4: ladwor Uh huh my three year old son. We can't
14:32
Speaker 4: find him.
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Speaker 3: How long has he been missing?
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Speaker 4: About an hour?
14:36
Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 3: Are you by water?
14:38
Speaker 2: Yes?
14:39
Speaker 3: Do you know what's campground you're in?
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Speaker 10: Uh?
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Speaker 4: It's Stone Reservoir, Timber Creek, Stone Reservoir, Yeah, or Timber Creek.
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Speaker 4: Hold on.
14:47
Speaker 3: We made search and rescue.
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Speaker 12: Both lem High and Bonneville County Sheriffs, alongside hundreds of
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Speaker 12: volunteers search the Timber Creek campground for days looking for
14:56
Speaker 12: any sign of the yor dive team spend hours come
15:00
Speaker 12: the creek, running along the campsite and Stone reservoir, a
15:03
Speaker 12: shallow body of water feeding the creek foot searchers spread
15:06
Speaker 12: out over a three mile radius. He been checking animal
15:09
Speaker 12: dens for any signs of diorg joining us.
15:11
Speaker 2: Nate Eaton from Eastidaho News dot Com News director Nate
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Speaker 2: tell me about the immediate search. I need to know A.
15:19
Speaker 1: Who was searching? B.
15:21
Speaker 2: How long did it take to get searchers in c
15:26
Speaker 2: Had the family already started searching?
15:28
Speaker 1: And what were their efforts? Can you describe that.
15:31
Speaker 10: The family has started to search Nancy on foot?
15:34
Speaker 7: And also remember that there were only like four of
15:37
Speaker 7: them out there with Dior, so it was the four
15:39
Speaker 7: of them parents were searching, Vernal says. The dad says,
15:42
Speaker 7: he hopped in his truck and started to search.
15:45
Speaker 2: It wasn't wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute,
15:47
Speaker 2: hopped in his truck. How can you hop in the
15:49
Speaker 2: truck if you can only get up there in a ATV, Well,
15:51
Speaker 2: you can get up.
15:52
Speaker 7: There in a truck if it's a four wheel drive.
15:54
Speaker 7: So his truck was there on the site, and so
15:56
Speaker 7: he tells us that he immediately did a search around
15:58
Speaker 7: the campsite, then got in this trunck, did a search there,
16:02
Speaker 7: then drove down the path to call nine to one one.
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Speaker 7: It takes some time to get up there, so the
16:07
Speaker 7: sheriff's office responded before a small search and rescue crew responded,
16:12
Speaker 7: and within twenty four to forty eight hours, you had
16:14
Speaker 7: people on horseback, You had people on ATVs. You had
16:18
Speaker 7: drones in the air, some helicopters were brought in from
16:21
Speaker 7: nearby Montana to search the area. And I would say
16:24
Speaker 7: that first week or so they did a search out there,
16:28
Speaker 7: and what they were doing is to mark off areas
16:30
Speaker 7: they had been They were tying pink ribbons around trees
16:34
Speaker 7: to let other searchers know that that specific area had
16:38
Speaker 7: been searched.
16:38
Speaker 10: But this is a vast, remote area, Nancy. I mean
16:43
Speaker 10: it would.
16:43
Speaker 7: Take thousands and thousands of people who knows how long
16:48
Speaker 7: to cover every single square foot of.
16:50
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Nate Eton. In my
16:54
Speaker 1: mind your bass ackwards.
16:55
Speaker 2: It may be thousands and thousands of acres.
16:59
Speaker 1: Yes, I can't argue.
17:01
Speaker 2: With the map, but a little two year old boy
17:04
Speaker 2: wearing cowboy boots almost as tall as him, he could
17:07
Speaker 2: not have gotten.
17:08
Speaker 1: Thousands and thousands of acres away. I don't need to
17:11
Speaker 1: search thousands and thousands of acres.
17:12
Speaker 2: I need to search that immediate area and then start
17:16
Speaker 2: moving out.
17:16
Speaker 1: David Marshburn, how did they do the search?
17:20
Speaker 8: From what I'm understanding, they focused their area on the
17:23
Speaker 8: creek and they started up where the parents said. They
17:28
Speaker 8: stated they were at to the bottom where you can
17:31
Speaker 8: cross over with a vehicle, and that's what they concentrated
17:35
Speaker 8: mostly on for three to four days.
17:37
Speaker 2: So they started mostly in Wait, just give me the
17:41
Speaker 2: parameters one more time, David.
17:43
Speaker 8: Within one hundred feet from the campsite is how they started.
17:48
Speaker 8: And they started in the creek from the top down
17:51
Speaker 8: to the bottom. I think the farthest they were was
17:56
Speaker 8: around three hundred feet to where the creek crosses, where
17:59
Speaker 8: the road creek crosses over the creek.
18:02
Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question, David or Nate, and
18:04
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring in Dr Gorniat, doctor Jeff Kalashewski,
18:08
Speaker 2: and Pendry Trammel in just one moment.
18:11
Speaker 1: But could a two year.
18:14
Speaker 2: Old boy wearing those boots have crossed that creek?
18:18
Speaker 1: What do you think?
18:19
Speaker 8: David Marshburn Absolutely not, There's no way, Okay, I could
18:24
Speaker 8: have got within one hundred feet from that campsite, just
18:28
Speaker 8: on flat ground.
18:29
Speaker 1: And Nate Eaton I agree with Marshburn.
18:33
Speaker 2: If he had made it to the creek, I don't
18:36
Speaker 2: know that he would have gotten in the water and
18:38
Speaker 2: tried to cross it in cowboy boots. I don't know
18:41
Speaker 2: if the creek was so deep that was impossible, and
18:45
Speaker 2: if he had, we would have evidence of him doing that.
18:49
Speaker 1: Would you agree with that, Nate.
18:51
Speaker 10: Eaton, Absolutely, Yeah, I don't think he could have made
18:54
Speaker 10: it to the creek.
18:55
Speaker 7: If had he made it somehow miraculously to the creek,
18:58
Speaker 7: the creek would have stopped him. He could not have
19:00
Speaker 7: crossed it. And then, you know the part of the
19:03
Speaker 7: creek that I've been to, there's a little hill right
19:05
Speaker 7: past the creek. He then have to go uphill. And remember,
19:08
Speaker 7: they weren't just cowboy boots, Nancy. They were cowboy boots
19:10
Speaker 7: that were one or two sizes bigger than his feet.
19:13
Speaker 7: You know how it is to walk in shoes that
19:15
Speaker 7: are bigger than your feet, especially as a kid. You're
19:18
Speaker 7: kind of clumping along. So it's not like they were
19:20
Speaker 7: tight and attached to his feet. But there's been no
19:22
Speaker 7: sign of those boots had he made it to the creek,
19:25
Speaker 7: there's been no signs of his clothing, there's been no
19:28
Speaker 7: signs of him.
19:29
Speaker 2: And if he had made it to the creek and
19:32
Speaker 2: across the creek, we would absolutely have evidence on the
19:36
Speaker 2: other side.
19:36
Speaker 1: Of the creek. Now, this is what I want to know.
19:39
Speaker 2: You mentioned a bridge going over the creek and a
19:43
Speaker 2: roadway could do yor have been seen from the road
19:49
Speaker 2: or the bridge.
19:51
Speaker 1: What about it, Dave Marshburne.
19:53
Speaker 8: Well, what it is. It's a creek that you drive
19:57
Speaker 8: over the creek, into the creek and up on the
20:00
Speaker 8: other side, so it's not like there's a bridge or
20:03
Speaker 8: stepping stones, and the water, the water moving so quickly
20:10
Speaker 8: would sweep the child off his feet. It would almost
20:12
Speaker 8: sweep a grown man off his feet. So it's only
20:16
Speaker 8: like a foot deep, but it's still moving swiftly the
20:20
Speaker 8: whole time during the year, so there's no way the
20:24
Speaker 8: child could have crossed the creek without being swept into
20:27
Speaker 8: the creek. And then you have buffers every twenty thirty
20:31
Speaker 8: feet that where the creek has accumulated sticks and brush
20:36
Speaker 8: and everything, so it would have stopped and someone if
20:39
Speaker 8: he was in the creek, he would have been found
20:41
Speaker 8: the first day.
20:42
Speaker 1: I agree.
20:43
Speaker 2: I agree, and that's why I was asking they eat
20:45
Speaker 2: And how quickly the searchers got there. Would you say
20:49
Speaker 2: they converged in an hour or less than two hours.
20:54
Speaker 7: I would probably say two to three hours to be
20:56
Speaker 7: more accurate. And you know, David's right, they did focus
20:59
Speaker 7: on on that campground at.
21:01
Speaker 10: First for the first several days and the.
21:04
Speaker 7: Creek then they spread out to see it. If maybe
21:07
Speaker 7: you know one of the theories was did a large
21:10
Speaker 7: bird or a mountain lion pick Deure up and take
21:13
Speaker 7: him elsewhere and drop him or something like that.
21:16
Speaker 1: Did you just say a large bird that was.
21:19
Speaker 7: One of the theories of a large eagle or something picking
21:22
Speaker 7: him up, mountain lion there?
21:24
Speaker 2: Guess what, maybe a little green man from mars Cane
21:27
Speaker 2: camping that day and got him. A bird did not
21:30
Speaker 2: get the boy. Okay, a mountain lion did not get
21:35
Speaker 2: the boy. Am I crazy?
21:37
Speaker 1: Or have you?
21:37
Speaker 2: And I been working on the Suzanne Morphew case, right,
21:42
Speaker 2: Suzanne Morphy was not attacked by a mountain lion? Why
21:45
Speaker 2: because we have done studies on it and we know
21:48
Speaker 2: there would be in disha left behind that there had
21:52
Speaker 2: been some type of a tangle with a mountain lion.
21:55
Speaker 2: There would be clothing, there would be blood, there would
21:57
Speaker 2: be struggle, something Nate eat. After all this time, you
22:02
Speaker 2: want to get up here on crime stories and say
22:05
Speaker 2: a bird may have taken to.
22:06
Speaker 7: Your saying I believe that, Nancy, I'm saying that was
22:10
Speaker 7: one of the theories that was looked at that had
22:12
Speaker 7: a bird or a large bird, eagle, something or an
22:16
Speaker 7: animal picked him up then taken him somewhere else, or
22:19
Speaker 7: even a person, if a person had made their way
22:21
Speaker 7: into that campground, as remote as it is, and then
22:24
Speaker 7: discarded him somewhere else. That's why the search then spread
22:28
Speaker 7: out as far as they could go.
22:30
Speaker 2: The search for two year old Yor is on joining
22:33
Speaker 2: me an all star panel. But I want you to hear,
22:37
Speaker 2: just to throw another wrench in the works, what happened.
22:40
Speaker 6: Listen, while we were doing our grid search, someone came
22:44
Speaker 6: in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one
22:49
Speaker 6: at that site. And I'm assuming it's a favorite site
22:53
Speaker 6: of their loved one. And without thinking, they deposited these cremaines,
22:59
Speaker 6: not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene.
23:01
Speaker 2: And what it would do what someone comes onto the
23:05
Speaker 2: search scene to spread ashes?
23:10
Speaker 1: Did this really happen, Nate Eaton, It did happen.
23:13
Speaker 7: It did happen someone unbeknownst that this child was missing.
23:17
Speaker 7: It was a reservoir that their family member loved to
23:20
Speaker 7: go to. They went up dumped the cremaines in the reservoir. That's,
23:25
Speaker 7: of course, when the dog the dogs picked up a scent.
23:29
Speaker 7: There was human cremaines, and so we were up there
23:32
Speaker 7: when they were searching that reservoir. It's divers for several
23:35
Speaker 7: days were under the water, and that's when this person
23:38
Speaker 7: that dumped the cremaines came forward and said, actually, the
23:41
Speaker 7: dogs might be getting this sort of scent, and unfortunately
23:45
Speaker 7: they never found do your in that reservoir?
23:47
Speaker 2: So do your Based on everything Nate and David are
23:51
Speaker 2: telling us, was not in the creek.
23:54
Speaker 1: He was not in the reservoir.
23:56
Speaker 2: These people came upon a crime scene and throw out
24:02
Speaker 2: human remains, cremated remains, which throws the search into chaos
24:08
Speaker 2: with the scent dogs, but then another dead end listen.
24:15
Speaker 13: Two days after Dior's disappearance, Lemi County Sheriffs receive a
24:18
Speaker 13: tip from amm And, Idaho, some one hundred and twenty
24:20
Speaker 13: miles away. The collar is a Walmart employee who sold
24:23
Speaker 13: a man several boxes of diapers. The man was towing
24:26
Speaker 13: along a blonde, hazel eyed todd boy. Police identify the
24:30
Speaker 13: man's vehicle from surveillance footage, but when they track him down,
24:33
Speaker 13: the toddler is not. Dior. Frustrated by the dead end,
24:36
Speaker 13: Sheriff Lynn Bauerman comments, every two and a half year
24:39
Speaker 13: old with blonde hair looks just like Dior.
24:41
Speaker 2: Straight back to you, Nate, and then I'll bring in
24:44
Speaker 2: David Penury, doctor Kilaschewski, and doctor Gorniak. Nate Aton a
24:49
Speaker 2: false sighting. Now, I don't blame the people that called
24:53
Speaker 2: it in. They're trying to help, but it really skewers
24:56
Speaker 2: the timeline here. Resources go to that down and it's
25:01
Speaker 2: a dead end. But the real focus should be where
25:06
Speaker 2: do your went missing?
25:07
Speaker 14: Right?
25:08
Speaker 15: Yeah?
25:08
Speaker 7: Police rushed to that Walmart. We went down there and
25:11
Speaker 7: they pulled the surveillance footage. They were able to track
25:13
Speaker 7: that guy in a nearby town. They went to his house,
25:17
Speaker 7: cleared him right away. He had nothing to do with
25:19
Speaker 7: the case. There was another sighting Nancy at a hotel
25:22
Speaker 7: in California, have a beautiful little boy that looked just
25:24
Speaker 7: like yours. I guess the good thing is that people
25:27
Speaker 7: were alert and paying attention to the fact that he
25:30
Speaker 7: was missing. Turns out that case was not related to
25:33
Speaker 7: this one. But yeah, I mean, it does divert resources
25:37
Speaker 7: away from the fact.
25:38
Speaker 10: That he's still missing.
25:45
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
25:51
Speaker 2: It's at this juncture, the search gets turned on its
25:55
Speaker 2: ear listen.
25:56
Speaker 13: Jessica Mitchell and Vernal Coons tell investigators just after breakfast
26:00
Speaker 13: they take Deor with them on a gas run to
26:02
Speaker 13: fill up Kuhon's diesel truck. The stage shop doesn't sell
26:06
Speaker 13: diesel and the station two doors down is out of gas.
26:08
Speaker 13: The family finally finds diesel at Peterson's Welding, then returns
26:12
Speaker 13: to the stage shop for a few supplies and snacks,
26:14
Speaker 13: specifically French fries for York. The couple has receipts for
26:18
Speaker 13: the gas and snacks, but everyone who was at the
26:20
Speaker 13: stores at the time only remembers a couple coming in.
26:24
Speaker 13: They did not see a child.
26:25
Speaker 2: Back to David Marshburne, the Kon's finally family, private investigator
26:31
Speaker 2: and director of investigations at Search for Me Foundation, former
26:36
Speaker 2: bounty hunter. Jessica Mitchell and Vernald Koon's tail investigators. After breakfast,
26:42
Speaker 2: they take to Yor with them on a gas run
26:47
Speaker 2: to fill up the diesel truck now number one. The
26:51
Speaker 2: stage shop doesn't sell diesel and the station two doors
26:56
Speaker 2: down was out of diesel gas. The family finally finds
27:02
Speaker 2: diesel at Peterson's Welding and then returned back to the
27:07
Speaker 2: stage shop for supplies and snacks, French fies for Dior.
27:13
Speaker 2: They've got the receipts for gas and snacks. Nobody at
27:18
Speaker 2: the store sees a child with them. Now, let me
27:21
Speaker 2: understand something. This is where the facts seem to diverge
27:25
Speaker 2: from me. I thought Dior was back with the grandpa
27:30
Speaker 2: and that's where he gets lost. Now I'm hearing that
27:34
Speaker 2: he goes to get snacks and gas. Now back to
27:38
Speaker 2: the truism. It's my dauty to make all witness to
27:41
Speaker 2: speak the truth. Did these two things happen at two
27:44
Speaker 2: different times?
27:45
Speaker 8: What happened is once they got breakfast everything, the mom
27:49
Speaker 8: and dad took the child and they went into town
27:52
Speaker 8: to get diesel fuel. And then when they come back
27:58
Speaker 8: is when the grandpa watches the child.
28:01
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad I suss that out with you. So
28:05
Speaker 2: that's true. Now these people to Doctor Jeff Kelishevski joining me.
28:11
Speaker 2: A forensic psychologist, author of Dark Sides. You can find
28:17
Speaker 2: him on YouTube. Doctor Jeff Kelishevski, forensic psychologist. Got a
28:23
Speaker 2: question for you, Doctor Jeff Kelishevsky. Doctor Jeff many people,
28:29
Speaker 2: legal eagles and others have attacked those citizens that come
28:34
Speaker 2: forward with a siding sightings that are dead ends that
28:38
Speaker 2: are not door. Also the people at the gas station
28:43
Speaker 2: and the stage shop, they have been attacked.
28:48
Speaker 1: Claiming they're slowing down the investigation.
28:52
Speaker 2: For all I know, these people in the stage shop
28:55
Speaker 2: just didn't see deyor there's no indication he was left
28:58
Speaker 2: out in the truck.
29:00
Speaker 1: That didn't happen.
29:01
Speaker 16: So what's your response, Well, I think what's important is
29:04
Speaker 16: particularly missing cases situations that law enforcement and anyone involved
29:12
Speaker 16: gather as much information as they can. As you know,
29:15
Speaker 16: interviewing witnesses, sometimes you have a witness's perception, sometimes you
29:20
Speaker 16: have what they're willing to tell you, and you have
29:23
Speaker 16: to compare that to what's in the environment of the
29:27
Speaker 16: potential crime scene and look at the logistics how do
29:31
Speaker 16: people move within that crime scene. So gathering all the information,
29:37
Speaker 16: looking to see what lines up and what doesn't line up,
29:41
Speaker 16: and that sort of sets a stage for your next
29:44
Speaker 16: inquiry or set of questions is important. So the more
29:47
Speaker 16: information the better. You can always rule out things as
29:50
Speaker 16: a misperception, as a mistake. But what you need to
29:54
Speaker 16: do is take all that information find where there's consistencies
29:58
Speaker 16: where things are plausible and where things are maybe not plausible,
30:02
Speaker 16: rule those out and that leads to your next inquiry.
30:08
Speaker 12: Retired US Marshall Frank Hilt volunteers to help the family
30:11
Speaker 12: find Deorilt puts up personal savings for a reward, and
30:15
Speaker 12: dedicates all of his time to the case. A month later,
30:18
Speaker 12: Veilt terminates his working relationship with Vernal Kons and Jessica Mitchell.
30:22
Speaker 12: Gilt explains his reasoning in a letter to the parents. Quote,
30:25
Speaker 12: I told both of you that if I felt you
30:27
Speaker 12: were not telling the truth, stalling me or otherwise misleading me,
30:31
Speaker 12: that I would withdraw from the investigation. Both of you
30:34
Speaker 12: lied and misrepresented the true facts that could solve the
30:36
Speaker 12: mystery of your missing son.
30:38
Speaker 1: Joining me.
30:39
Speaker 2: David Marshburne, the Kons family private investigator and director of
30:44
Speaker 2: Search for Me Foundation. This guy voluntarily joins the search,
30:49
Speaker 2: puts some money for a reward, and then drops out
30:52
Speaker 2: because he believes the father and girlfriend are line.
30:56
Speaker 8: Yes, ma'am, but you have to look at the situation.
31:00
Speaker 8: Built respectable man, good at what he did. He came
31:04
Speaker 8: from a US Marshall background which he went after abducted
31:08
Speaker 8: children by the opposite parent. He seemed to get tunnel
31:13
Speaker 8: vision about Jessica adopting the child out behind Bernald's back,
31:19
Speaker 8: and because they refused to take a reward for the child,
31:25
Speaker 8: he even got even stronger about his belief that they
31:29
Speaker 8: gave the child up for adoption. Either Jessica did it
31:32
Speaker 8: without Bernal's acknowledgment, or they both did it. But the
31:37
Speaker 8: parents were told by the FBI when they sepped in
31:41
Speaker 8: not to give out any type of reward because it
31:44
Speaker 8: could lead to a lot more false leads, and they
31:48
Speaker 8: wanted to spend more of their time at the campsite
31:52
Speaker 8: in the general area.
31:53
Speaker 2: Okay, so that could be. That could be murky as
31:57
Speaker 2: to why he really left. But then there is another
32:01
Speaker 2: PI listen.
32:02
Speaker 5: After Frank Viilt removes himself from the investigation, the parents
32:05
Speaker 5: turned to another private investigator, Philip Klein, takes on the
32:09
Speaker 5: case and is hopeful that he will find little Dior,
32:12
Speaker 5: But Klein quickly runs into the same issues Viilt did.
32:16
Speaker 5: Klein says the couple's story frequently changes and their timeline
32:20
Speaker 5: of events crumbles under scrutiny.
32:22
Speaker 2: Joining me right now is a renowned attorney, Penrie Trammel,
32:26
Speaker 2: civil litigator, former prosecutor in Oregon and Idaho. You can
32:31
Speaker 2: find her at Smith Malik dot com.
32:34
Speaker 1: Pandri, thank you so much for being with us.
32:36
Speaker 2: There's a reason polygraphs don't come into court. Many people argue,
32:42
Speaker 2: like fingerprints, that was contested once too, but now it
32:45
Speaker 2: comes into court. But here we've got five polygraphs where
32:51
Speaker 2: Vernald Coots fails. He even fails the control question. Are
32:57
Speaker 2: you going to tell us the truth today?
32:59
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, bad panjury, it is bad.
33:02
Speaker 14: You know, yes, those polygraphs don't come into court based
33:05
Speaker 14: on some of the science behind them. But when you're
33:07
Speaker 14: looking at five failed polygraphs, there is reason for concern there,
33:11
Speaker 14: especially when you fail that very first question penjury travel.
33:15
Speaker 2: I'm sure encountered lie detector tests polygraphs, but again, both
33:22
Speaker 2: of these people in tandem are failing multiple polygraphs. It's
33:28
Speaker 2: bad enough if one fails, but remember these two were together.
33:31
Speaker 2: When di Yor goes missing. This is not a good sign. Pandry.
33:35
Speaker 2: Now you've handled a lot of domestic and custody cases
33:39
Speaker 2: that go south.
33:41
Speaker 1: What's your analysis?
33:42
Speaker 14: Sure, So when we're looking at these polygraphs that are
33:44
Speaker 14: getting completely inconsistent, especially with two people that were at
33:48
Speaker 14: the same crime scene seeing the same things. We're looking at,
33:51
Speaker 14: where's the consistency, where's the corroboration, you know, where are
33:55
Speaker 14: those things that are lining up, and where are they
33:58
Speaker 14: diverging and are those on key factors?
34:01
Speaker 16: Right?
34:01
Speaker 14: If we're looking at divergence on key factors or they
34:04
Speaker 14: can't keep it straight, that's when we start looking at
34:06
Speaker 14: those key factors and seeing what went left.
34:09
Speaker 8: Bernald did not take five polygraphs. He took two. He
34:13
Speaker 8: did inconclusive pass on each one. Jessica Mitchell did two
34:19
Speaker 8: live detector tests. It come in conclusive pass. And the
34:23
Speaker 8: reason why it did that in the in the FBI
34:26
Speaker 8: agent actually told them the reason why it was in
34:30
Speaker 8: conclusive pass was because of the stress that they were
34:34
Speaker 8: going through of losing a child.
34:35
Speaker 2: Join me right now, a renowned medical examiner, doctor Jen Gorniac,
34:41
Speaker 2: who has been waiting patiently, dtr Gorniac, former medical examiner
34:46
Speaker 2: in Clark County. That's Vegas Board certified pathologist, doctor Gorniac.
34:52
Speaker 2: We know that Dior Kuntz went on that trip. We
34:57
Speaker 2: know it's very heavy terrain. We are convinced he never
35:02
Speaker 2: made it into the water, which means either he got lost,
35:07
Speaker 2: and that would it expanse or he was kidnapped? Question
35:11
Speaker 2: to you, The most obvious answer is he's lost in
35:17
Speaker 2: the expanse, either killed or got lost on his own,
35:22
Speaker 2: doctor Gorniac. If his remains were found, now, would he
35:27
Speaker 2: be identifiable at.
35:29
Speaker 1: This point in time?
35:30
Speaker 10: Baby, do you?
35:31
Speaker 15: Or would not be identifiable? Unfortunately, I looked up the
35:36
Speaker 15: weather at that time.
35:37
Speaker 6: It's in July.
35:39
Speaker 15: It's in the eighties, and for a little kid, it
35:42
Speaker 15: will take less than a few hours for them to
35:47
Speaker 15: start to decompose. So twenty four hours later he would
35:51
Speaker 15: start to be decomposing. And like one of your other
35:54
Speaker 15: guests says, there's probably animals out in the in the
35:57
Speaker 15: in the brush and will probably got to by but
36:00
Speaker 15: these years later, they're probably he's probably skeletonized, completely skeletonized.
36:05
Speaker 1: If he's found.
36:06
Speaker 2: Though, even if his remains are simply skeletons, couldn't we
36:11
Speaker 2: still tell that it was a human child?
36:15
Speaker 15: Yes, you would then have to employ an anthropologist, a
36:18
Speaker 15: frontic anthropologist who can look at the bones and take
36:22
Speaker 15: measurements and determine the sex and the height of the
36:27
Speaker 15: child depending on teeth. Not sure if he had went
36:29
Speaker 15: to the dentist, but probably at that time he didn't
36:32
Speaker 15: have any cavities or fillings in his teeth that would
36:35
Speaker 15: be able to identify him. But had he had some
36:38
Speaker 15: X rays of his teeth, of his skull at some point,
36:42
Speaker 15: then would be able to do it. I'm not sure
36:44
Speaker 15: there'll be any bone marrow left to do DNA. It'd
36:47
Speaker 15: be very difficult. In a case like this. It would
36:50
Speaker 15: probably come down to circumstantial saying that based on the
36:55
Speaker 15: information and the circumstances, we can't do it scientifically fingerprints, DNA, dentist,
37:04
Speaker 15: so we would have to say circumstantially this is probably.
37:08
Speaker 1: Dear doctor Gorniac.
37:10
Speaker 2: I can't think of any way if his remains are
37:14
Speaker 2: there that he would not be skeletonized.
37:16
Speaker 15: Correct, you would be skeletonized. But this case, as a
37:20
Speaker 15: forensic pathologist, I have so many of the questions. So
37:24
Speaker 15: our job as a friend of pathologist, besides causing man
37:27
Speaker 15: or death identification of the body is to prove or
37:29
Speaker 15: disprove the circumstances. I can't imagine any of these scenarios
37:34
Speaker 15: where you're not going to hear a child scream, cry,
37:38
Speaker 15: any other noises that the grandfather or the friend of
37:41
Speaker 15: the grandfather would have heard. So let's just say a
37:44
Speaker 15: big bird came down, you would have heard something. I'm
37:47
Speaker 15: not sure that a two year old would just be silent.
37:50
Speaker 2: Pendri Trammel with US renowned civil litigator and former criminal
37:55
Speaker 2: prosecutor at Smith Malik dot com. Pendrey, in a case
38:01
Speaker 2: like this, if his remains are found, it would be
38:07
Speaker 2: very difficult to prove or disprove that he was murdered
38:11
Speaker 2: unless his remains have been buried or secreted in some way.
38:17
Speaker 14: Sure, I think that would be again that circumstantial evidence
38:20
Speaker 14: that doctor Gorniac was talking about.
38:21
Speaker 1: You're looking at what's.
38:23
Speaker 14: Surrounding where you find, unfortunately, the child's remains.
38:27
Speaker 4: At that point, the other thing you'd.
38:29
Speaker 14: Be looking at is is there anybody.
38:31
Speaker 1: Else that's gone missing in that area?
38:33
Speaker 14: Are we ruling out other potential children that have gone missing?
38:37
Speaker 14: You have to look at the entire picture and kind
38:39
Speaker 14: of put those circumstantial pieces together too.
38:42
Speaker 2: David Marshburn joining us se Kun's Family Private Investigator Directorate
38:48
Speaker 2: Search for Me Foundation. David, what do you think happened?
38:53
Speaker 8: I do believe there was foul play involved. I do
38:56
Speaker 8: not believe the parents were involved in that.
38:59
Speaker 1: Where is Dior Coons.
39:05
Speaker 2: Do you know how much money, how many thousands, how
39:08
Speaker 2: many tens of thousands of dollars many people in this
39:12
Speaker 2: country would pay to get a little child like deor
39:17
Speaker 2: he could be anywhere. If you know or think you
39:23
Speaker 2: know anything about the disappearance of this child, please dial
39:27
Speaker 2: the tip line to zero eight seven five six eight
39:32
Speaker 2: nine eight zero two zero eight seven five six eight
39:37
Speaker 2: nine eight zero. We wait for justice to unfold and
39:44
Speaker 2: the search of Totboy Diyor Coons.
39:49
Speaker 1: And now we.
39:50
Speaker 2: Stopped to remember an American hero Officer, Brandon Paul Astorf
39:55
Speaker 2: of Base Saint Louis Police Department in Mississippi, just twenty three,
40:00
Speaker 2: shot and killed in the line of duty, Survived by
40:05
Speaker 2: a grieving mother and father Nan also in law enforcement,
40:11
Speaker 2: siblings Lily, Sophia, Jordana, Chloe, and Andrew. American hero Officer
40:19
Speaker 2: Brandon Paul Estorf. Thank you to all of our guests
40:24
Speaker 2: for joining us in the search for Door, but especially
40:28
Speaker 2: to you for being with us.
40:30
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off, good bye friend.