Latest / White Fox Talking / E42: Emerging from Darkness: Andy's Man Club and the Quiet Revolution in Men's Mental Health

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E42: Emerging from Darkness: Andy's Man Club and the Quiet Revolution in Men's Mental Health · White Fox Talking

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: off with.
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Can we just go talk about the story of start, of the beginning, really the story of Andy's man club, because I think you know it's getting really well known now, which is brilliant, but obviously there is a history and why it was started.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: The initial idea was was spawned from a very unfortunate event that a young man, Andy Roberts, took his own life.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: He died by suicide at just 23 years old.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Off the back of that and things that happened in and around it, his family had this idea to try and prevent other families going through that effectively.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: His brother-in-law, Luke Ambla, ex-professional rugby player international, came up this idea with a coffee club, if you will, just a place, a safe space where guys could get together and talk, just have a chat, before things built up to the point where it, you know, became a problem for them and they thought there's no other option to it.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: But you know to make those sort of decisions.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: So I watched the.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: There's a little film on the website which is really good, and I believe Andy's mum was involved as well.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Initially Luke had this idea, obviously had to buy this time a little bit.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Things were very raw all the way around for them and just about three months after that time they happened to be at a family wedding together and he he approached the idea of this coffee club with Elaine.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Then he wanted to call it Andy Roberts Coffee Club.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: She kind of liked the idea but didn't go with the name, which is why nobody's ever heard of that bit of back and forth and they came up with this sort of Andy's man club.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a great sort of legacy to leave, isn't it?
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: But obviously it's behind it there is a tragedy.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those bittersweet, if you will things.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: We are all very, very aware of where it's come from, but what it has turned into you know.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: If you could possibly make any positive out of a tragedy like that, then something like where we are now is, could you ask them all?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: So first club was in Halifax in about 2016?
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right so Andy died in the April beginning of April, if I'm correct.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: This wedding was, like, say, the best part of three months on from that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: The very first thing that went out on any social media was actually on Luke's Facebook and he put the just put Fields out, if you will and that was the end of June, plus week in June in 2016, and our first group was actually held on the 4th of July 2016, so the week after he put his first post out and he did get nine guys through the door.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: That first night.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, again, go back to that little film that I was watching on the website.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's quite, it's quite touching, is it?
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: They weren't really expecting anyone, and then the nine turned up and then from there, I mean, the success has been sort of incredible.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: But then you've think that there was a definite need, so and it's filled, that, you know it's.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: It's getting that word about mental health, and especially in this it's men's mental health.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: There's nothing else like it, is there Not?
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: specifically, we were kind of fortunate again in many ways and I'm taking positives out of it.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: So, luke, after his rugby career he went into public speaking as a motivational coach.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, so there are a lot of tie-overs, if you will, to what we're based on is around that, around certain business models that we see cropping up from time to time.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: It's tried and tested.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: You know his methods to work.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Obviously it's been adapted to to what we need to do.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously there's other things out there.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Samaritan's been the prime one.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: You know, everybody's heard of Samaritans.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Not everybody's in a position to be able to have that conversation with them.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, in in what we're doing at the.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Certainly at the time of starting it was quite a unique and a unique thing that was out there.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So it started back in 1816 and that was a fully enough sort of time that I started talking about my mental health and going and actually opening up about the PTSD that went through.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get think back to what was happening in the world of mental health, and it was pre-covids, wasn't it?
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: So that wasn't even a thing, because now there's been this explosion of groups, especially what I'm with with nature therapy and walking therapy.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Have you seen numbers lately pick up, since COVID though?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Over the years that I've been involved.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Obviously it grows as we expand.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: We get that extra accessibility, if you will.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: There's always certain events that happen certain times a year that happen that will see us have an increase.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Now, whether that is COVID, whether it is, you know, you've got your current financial crisis.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: That's obviously playing on a lot of people's mind.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna feed my kids at end of week because I've got an old left-wing bank, that sort of thing.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: And then there's always day-to-day things that always happen to people.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: You know bereavements happen all across any time of year.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Relationship breakups happen anytime of year.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: It does fluctuate to a degree, but generally, once our groups are sort of established, they tend to hold out at a fairly steady average.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So we're now in December.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I know this will be going out.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: What year isn't actually 24?
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: January?
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: That's January.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: It'll be going out in January and I'm looking at 3,752 men last night.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing, isn't it really?
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: So it's could be 3,752 men that have gone in because at some point they've thought they needed this space to talk.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Absolutely it's.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: One of those things is that we do post our numbers pretty much on a weekly basis across our socials and on occasion it does get raised that it could possibly be seen as a bit of a brag.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Now, part of what we're doing in try to reduce suicides in men.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: We do have access to figures.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: The current figures in the UK the latest certainly I've got a close to is that four and a half thousand men every year take their own lives.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: So if you add that three thousand odd that we're getting on top of that, you think those are all potentially saved from that figure.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I actually wrote that down.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: We did this before when I'd I've got to be careful because we had Mike Palmer from Three Dads Walk, you know.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, they're doing fantastic work they are.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: And the thing is, when I read the figures, my mouth got in front of my brain and then I said I'm going to run the marathon for papyrus, the teenage suicide challenge, which I'm, you know.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I'm still glad I did, and if I did run the marathon without without running it for charity, then I'd have stops.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: But I'm not going to run a marathon because I'm still in pieces from that one.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: The suicide is biggest killer of men under 45 in the UK.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: One man every two hours.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: It's shocking, isn't it?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: That's what the average is yeah, 12 a day, 84 a week, yeah, and then around four, four and a half thousand a year.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely shocking what that biggest killer of 45 again, the latest figures that we've got access to is actually crept up to under 54, now right, which I just still fit into that category.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I am clinging on by my fingertips a little bit, but I am still in that category.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm in that category as well, but it's one of those with with all the awareness and stuff.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: It sounds all sorts of wrong to say this, but hopefully that figure will rise as the younger generation are learning the lessons from our generations and do tech more stuff on board, do I able to access more services, are able to learn that it's okay to talk.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Like I say, it sounds a very, very good thing to say, but hopefully that average will keep rising and you know you'll be putting certain things and they are actually a positive figure rather than seeming negative on the face of it.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that I mean that's why we're here, isn't it, isn't it?
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: So this is why we started the podcast ourselves.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Is you know?
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Just talk to people like yourselves and anyone that's anything to do with hopefully improving mental health and giving people a library to refer to, so it's great, but it also it's quite bothering, isn't it?
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: it's bothers me when I start doing research and looking at the figures Absolutely yeah, you know, I'm speaking for myself and the wider and his man club, anybody involved with it.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: We are all hyper aware of that.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: We are all fully committed to making those changes where we need and you know, taking opportunities exactly like this, getting in with yourselves and just potentially reaching out to somebody Quite spooky or is it just spiritual that a couple of few times we thought how hard it is to run the podcast?
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: it's like another full-time job on top of his job.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: And then every so often, we just we'll get an email saying you've, sort of, one of your stories changed me on a different direction and we're like alright, we can't stop now.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So I'm just looking here now, starting in 2016 and within five years you had 50 clubs, but then he's within seven years, so I don't know if that's now or last year.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're currently seven and a half years in Seven, 150 clubs, 160.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: 160, so that's how quickly it's expanding and then we are currently in the middle of announcing new groups to be opening in January.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Right, this is not going out well, january.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: So I can tell you we'll be opening a further 12.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Well, it's the success of Andy's man Club and the name getting out there, but it's also shows you the size of the issue, doesn't it?
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: A lot of our growth is natural expansion.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: If you will.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: We're in Leeds now.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Leeds is a perfect example of that.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: We started with one group in Leeds.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: You know we get to the point where there's that many guys attending, we're reaching the capacity of the venue so we have to expand it.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: By the time this goes out we'll have five in Leeds Right, pretty much come from that All guys coming in.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: You know guys will travel to a group from outside the immediate area.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: They'll, in time, get the benefit of it.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: They'll want to get involved in giving back and then look to take a group into there.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: The area they've come from.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, there's a lot of natural expansion that does go ahead.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: So what I want to do to do when I look at what you mentioned was what actually happens, how someone can find a meeting, go to a meeting, what happens and then what happens from that meeting, because I think there may be a little bit of people may have a bit of apprehension about that.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: So all our groups and we have.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Let's say, by the time this goes up we'll have 172 around the country.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: They are listed on our website, which is wwwandismanclubcouk.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: It's a search function.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: There's like three bars in the top corner.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Bring that down.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: You put in whatever area, country you're in and it will direct your team near this club.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Or we do have an online version as well if somebody's in an area country we don't cover yet.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: So that's how people find it.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Now, all our groups are run by facilitators.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Those guys are all volunteers.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: They've all been that guy through the door for the first time at some point.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: They all appreciate how hard a thing that is to do and it can be a very hard thing for a guy to do.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: So a guy turns up at one of our groups anywhere in the country, there'll be somebody outside.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: One of our facilitator teams stood there wearing our merch, so he's identifiable.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: His role for that night is as a greeter, is to welcome guys in the door, especially new guys.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Like I said, they do all know how hard it can be.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: So one of those things.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Generally speaking, guys will leave us to maybe the last option.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: You know, there might have been doctors there might have tried some marathons.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: There might have tried other options.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: There might have been a pub drying in the solos for eight months before they finally turn up to our doors.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: That could well mean that at a fairly low point in life that can breed a lot of anxiety.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: That anxiety can be through the roof when they turn up somewhere new.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: So the greeter there part of their facilitator training is to look out for this nervous new guy that might be hiding behind a bush or dug around back of his car or whatever.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: You'll go up to him, introduce himself to the guy, make him feel welcome, show him into the building, show him into the rooms we're using, get him a brew, get him a biscuit.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Just make sure he's comfortable From there on.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: It's a simple question and answer.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Format is the group?
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: It probably is the question we get asked most is what do we do?
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: You'd be surprised how many people think we sit there whittling bits of wood or brain random nails into stuff.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: So it's question and answers.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: So there's always five questions we need in group.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: The facilitator will ask the question first.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: He will then answer the question first to set the precedent, set the tone, if you will.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Question one, two and three are always the same.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: And then question four and five do change every week but are the same across all groups.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: So question one is a simple how's your week be?
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: It's a conversation starter.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Question two is it gives a positive from your week.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Now, if that guy is in a low place, thought process is content to spiral downwards.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Ask him somebody for a positive.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: It pinpoints that no matter what you're going through, there are highlights to be found within that period of time and it can change that negative spiral over time, granted, but it can change that negative spiral into a more positive way of thinking.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Question three is pretty much everything that Andes man Club is about and is anything to get off your chest.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: We do try and keep it current.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Meet something that's bothering you now.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Now that could be something from your past, maybe an anniversary that doesn't sit well.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: It could be the little day to day niggles that can build up and if you haven't got an outlet, that can you know can become a problem.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Or it can be more major life stuff.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: You know many people go through bereavements or job uncertainties or relationship breakups.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Whatever we do try and get a break.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: After question three, it can get quite heavy.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Sometimes there can be some fairly deep shares.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: The break is there for a time out, if you will, it's a breather.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Grab another brew, whatever, catch up we make, or come back in reset.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: For four and five, those are normally something more positive sort of thought process.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Perfect example is where is your happy place and why?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: For a question four, something to think, is normally that two part.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: So for me I'd say for that, stick me in woods next to a stream, maybe a bit of waterfall going on Fairly relatable on its own, but the and why.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I do photography as a hubby, so I never in that environment.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about what lens have I got on my camera?
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: What settings am I using?
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Where's the light coming from?
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Are people that see my photograph going to be able to recognise what I'm trying to show on?
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: So that and why gives context to the initial answer.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: It allows other people in the group to be able to relate to it and find out where they happy places.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Question five, then, is a quickfire question.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: More often than not it's the same that humour, potentially argumentative, just pineapple on pizza being the answer to that question, it gets a laugh.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: What do you think, seb?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I do like pineapple on pizza.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah I like oh, I'll be honest, I don't really eat pizza because I don't like the best.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Don't agree with me.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: And that's me with the telling heritage, yeah.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I know, yeah, I can eat the pizza, but then I eat with loads of asses.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I'll give you another one.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Go on.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Would you rather have a nose for a nipple or a nipple for a nose?
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Well, I suppose straight away that's why it's done it.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: It means nothing.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Exactly it means nothing, but it's lifted, just makes you laugh.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: So when you put yourself in the shoes of that guy that has come in through the door through the first time, his anxiety is through the roof, yeah, and he can leave laughing and joking about that dumb question with a bunch of blocks he never met before.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: That's the power of it.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: The kind of theory is, if you will, whatever you finish on, you're going to take away with you.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: So if we finished on that question three on a downer, yep, that's what people are going to take away.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: If we can get people leaving laughing, that's what they're going to take away.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: They're going to want to come back next week and continue that process and you know their journey, which leads us nicely into my journey.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Your story.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I wasn't going to let you get away with it.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I was.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: It's up to you.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Obviously, we're here and we're delighted to have you as a guest.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: So, whatever you want to tell us, you can tell us, and if you don't want to tell us, it's up to you, right?
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I?
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: will keep this as brief as possible and, just for the record, my son is aware that I do share this story and he's more than okay with it.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm certainly not unique in this, but I didn't actually join Andy's man club.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: For me, I went along to support somebody else and that somebody else was my son.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: He was 21 years old at the time and he had an attempt on his own life.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Massive, massive wake-up calls was a family, personally, massive kicking the proverbials.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: You know I missed dad.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I should have seen it coming.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I should be able to fix him.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: I should be a son out whatever.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: He actually ended up in a secure hospital at that time and I hit Google, as you do.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Other search engines are available, I'll add that in there.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: So I found Samaritans, we mentioned earlier fantastic organization.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: He wasn't ready to have that call.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I found Papyrus, as you mentioned amazing organization.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: They are aimed more specifically at preventing suiciding young people, but they do offer a lot of support to people like myself who were faced with that situation in life.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And, of course, I found Andys man Club.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Now, as you rightly mentioned, andys man Club was in Halifax.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: At the time it was my local group.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I worked in Halifax at the time.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I looked into them.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: They seemed to be doing a good thing, seemed to be a sensible, reasonable approach and stuff.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I spoke to my son about it and he were absolutely having none of it.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: It took me a very, very long, eight months to get in there.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Many conversations, very, very careful choice of words, very selective with timing To use those choice of words.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: I neither confirmed nor denied whether a matter result to a bit of blackmail, but what's over there?
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: But we got him there Now.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I mentioned about facilities watching out for people hiding.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I have very clear memories of driving into that car park at Shear Stadium in Halifax and parking facing away from the door so we could leg it.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Little did I know, but we did.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: We got in.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I sat in front of the door so he couldn't leg it.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: From once we'd got in, started passing the ball around and he got involved.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: He answered the questions, he joined in the groups and it worked.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: He would tell you himself if he were here now.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: That period of time saved his life, you know no question about it, and he attended two or three months and got what he needed out of it until one weekend when he gave me a bit of a random lame excuse.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: I said I'm not going tonight, dad.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Now I stuck around initially to maintain that contact, if you will.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I always say stuff like you, doctors, or some of the retinas, or whatever Andy's man Club, they're all tools to do a job.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: They've got to be the right tool for the right job, for the right person at the right time.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And then for him it all came together and it was for him.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Now, knowing that Andy's man Club is there in the background and he does drop in and out when he feels himself dipping again, he won't go back up his own accord, but it, existing there in the background, is enough of a tool for the job that he now needs.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: So I say I initially stuck around to maintain that contact.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: So we went back to square one and I did go through a little bit of imposter syndrome for a couple of weeks.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, he's not coming back now, why am I still here?
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: But by that point I'd made a.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I started to make a bond with the guys there.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: I started to make some good friends with the guys there, who I'm still friends with to this day, and we are now six years down the line.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: From that point, through having the conversations, through sharing my experience, especially on the question three, I were getting feedback that I was actually helping other people, which seemed a bit weird at the time.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I got asked to join the facilitator team, which again seemed a bit weird.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: But more weird than that was I actually felt benefit from that and what it did for me.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: It is a process and it does take time.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I'm as stubborn as the next month when it comes to stuff like looking after yourself.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: It allowed me to recognize that actually I was going through some stuff myself and that would a big bag of guilt, if you will, I died.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: We're carrying around well on my back this massive bag of guilt dad mode I mean his dad, it was my fault, I should be fixing.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it allowed me to, like I say, recognize that, acknowledge it, accept it and then place it firmly where it belongs in the world of nonsense.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: It took a lot of learning, but you know and a lot of conversations with him since about wearing this mask that we talk about, that people divide behind and talking with other guys about it took a lot of learning to learn that you know that weren't my fault and I had no guilt to bear.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I'd be lying if I said it didn't raise its head from time to time, but we have much better equipped to deal with it and kick it back to the curb.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: So I did end up running Elefax for a couple of years and, like I say, now I am in the very fortunate position where I do work for the charity and get to spend my day talking to business, talking to organizations and recording podcasts.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: What a story.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much in there, isn't there, and I think I haven't got the figures right in front of me, but the facts that you know someone.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: If you know somebody who's taken their own life, you're more likely to take your own life.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of correlation, yeah, but also I think there seems to be and this is just my opinion, from talking to people who have spoken to me about their own thoughts, and they might have a share.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: They feel a bit of a shame of thinking of having these suicidal thoughts, sometimes without any great triggers.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: But is it one in five people, something like that, that seems to ring a bell?
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: One in five people, may you know something around that have that thought, and one in 15 actually attempt.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many I know.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Now on you, we were sat in a mental health first aid group and there were 12 of us and there were only one person in that group that didn't know someone who'd taken their own life.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: That's unfortunate, that's not a surprise and it's just.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's separate, so come up.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: But then on the flip side, that's why we're sort of sat here talking about it, yeah absolutely.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, in one way or another I've been surrounded probably another thing, but I've had contact all my life.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I've got childhood memories of my own mother I'm oldest of three boys my own mother making me go and pick a photograph out to write a suicide note back a bit after she'd OD'd on something or other.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: To then when I was in my late teens, my mum and my teacher and one of her pupils, his dad, took his life to.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Then, not long after, probably my very early 20s, started hanging out with a girl that's now my mrs.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: That circle of friends, well, I've dated, recently got married, had two young men.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: He took his life and so it continues and goes through it.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Just it always crops up.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: It's one of them.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: When again it's stuff like that, especially my personal history and I'm sure I speak out, you know for a lot of the guys in my role around the country we use that as drive, if you will, the fuel to fan those flames that do push us forward and give us the energy to keep going and keep reaching out and taking any opportunity it presents itself.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was, do you know what?
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I was gonna mention that and I would actually mention it in a different way and say does it actually?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I know that us doing the podcast and the amount of stuff that I'm sort of studying and looking into, sometimes it does affect myself.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: You get a bit of a load.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: How do you?
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Can you sort of recycle that in the group and then, instead of the facility, you're actually there unloading that because you're doing it?
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: It might be a personal opinion, but I do think you need to sort of unload this stuff because you carry it about.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: So we have processes.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Like I said, part of my job, by the time this goes, I oversee 20 groups around West Yorkshire, so a big part of my job is making sure that those facilitators that run those groups are in the best place they can be.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: It's looking after them, make sure that they're using the group, because it is when you get tasked with ruining a thing you kind of forget yourself and make sure everybody else is looked after.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: So part of my job is to make sure that those guys are all right.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: We do have an in-house EAP in place, which is an employee assistance programme.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Even though they're not employees, we've put that in place for them, which does give them access to counselling and all sorts of things like that.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: We ourselves, as PDCs, we're kind of splitting to area groups, so we have an in-house meeting then every Tuesday morning.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: The first part of that is a personal checking for us to make sure we're all right.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: We also have access to the EAPs.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Most of us have learnt lessons, maybe the hardware.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's like myself.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: I mentioned the photography earlier.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: That's my little me time, if you will.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I'm a big advocate of me time.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: It's just your little escape from the world.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Leave everything else behind.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: We all need an escape from the stuff that life has this delightful habit of throwing us from time to time.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: And for me, my photography at the moment is that I've spent many, many years doing mountain biking again, getting out in nature and stuff and just getting a bit swaying car I'm going to take you in and some of the sights and scenery is just stunning, and allowing that time to just give yourself that five minutes just to absorb your surroundings and what have you, and again I've kind of pushed that most of the photography now, but again it's a major.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I've somewhere and park up and you don't always have to be out in nature, nature's more if I feel that I need that more solitary time.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: You don't find many idiots walking up a stream to get a picture, to be honest.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: But then there's plenty of other times that you know I've come through, walk around Leeds doing a bit of straight photography or architecture photography.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: But it's my me time because I am concentrating, like I said, the settings, the lens, whatever, and I'm always looking for ways to push that.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: So I rapidly moved on from the standard camera we are to our settings and stuff.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: So I only have a shoot now with vintage lenses, so it's all full manual.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I've recently pushed that a step further and I've gone back to shooting with film, which somehow I used to touch on as a bit in me childhood.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: My dad would have professional photographer.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: So you know I've always sort of done bits and bats, but my other interests have always taken up any sort of hobby budget I may have had, and now it's the photography.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: So that is my me time and I know a few other guys do have things in place.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Again.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Luke's a big advocate for certainly the more the physical aspect.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: He does a lot of like this cold water dip stuff.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Quite a few of our team have sort of joined in and got on board with that.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: All those set like challenges on different you know physical health apps and stuff like that where they might try and do a certain mileage in a you know six month period or whatever.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Just thinking off the top of my head, so many of us have learnt those lessons and put things in place.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the reason I asked that is because one I was hoping you were going to reply with something like that, otherwise I'd have looked at it even defter than them.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes people approach someone for counselling or just to present that voice to somebody else and you're thinking, well, where's this actually going, because is there a build up?
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I think that's a problem sometimes with this about guys talking to guys, because I don't want to just go to someone and just unload my issues on them and then them carrying them away and think of you know, think of them.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I mean.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I totally get you.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I'm going to start my answer off in this slightly skewed way but it'll come back.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: So my son going back to him, he had counselling, he had his one to one counselling, got on really, really well with his counsellor, thought he was a fantastic guy.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Didn't really get much benefit from that setting.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Now the way he always compared that to and his man club for instance and this is his personal take on it and I have shared this with us and they've gone.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Actually that makes a lot of sense.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: So he said when you go to counsellors and many people they do work I'm not dismissing counsellors whatsoever.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: My, my missus has been to counselling and really did benefit from it.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: But for him when he were at a counsellor, as he said, it likes sitting in a golf fish bowl and everybody's looking at you.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: When you go on his man club, everybody's in that golf fish bowl.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: So he's still in there but nobody's looking from outside in you there to share and part of the restructure, the way it's set up.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: The way it's set up is it does give guys to that platform to speak and to a degree, especially as a facilitator, you can carry that.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: There's many a nights I've gone home and thinking I hope he's all right for next week.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Big part of why we see AP's there also big big reason, like I mentioned earlier, why we finish on the high.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: That's the bit you take away we are.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: That's the why we we have it structured that way it's.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: It's about that off-load rather than people sucking it up so much.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: It's always going to happen to a degree.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: You know, it is kind of a part of a facilitator training, Part of my job, to make sure those facilitators not taking too much home with them and taking it on personally.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah um, we had this Recently with Stacy McKenna-Seed.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: We're talking about her nature therapy and that you know the counseling environment.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: It's not one size fits all, is it?
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: No, absolutely not.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: And from from personal experience I remember, because I did six months for PTSD and depression but sat in a square room talking one on one and it took it must have took me, I bet it took nearly three months to start fully opening up and by that time you've three months down the line of the increasing PTSD and depression.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: So but I think, with the group and again a personal opinion or some other scientist, is that that what you're creating is a Comrade right, and like you say, well, we're all here, we're in that, we're sort of all here and looking at that For the same same perspective.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, on the back of that kind of back stepping a little bit, many guys do find it and we get feedback regular.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: They find it far easier to talk to strangers, which may be a strange thing and, again, you know, certainly not dismissing counselors that do a very, very valid and valuable job, which is why I mentioned earlier about the right tool for the right job.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Yep, it's different approach, same goals, that talking to strangers and and unburdening and just it takes some of that pressure off.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: A big part of why guys don't talk Is they don't want to burden people that they know and care about to whatever extent, whether that is the partner or the mate's.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: You know you probably speaking most makes go up and take the rinse out of each other.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Last thing you want to do is sit there and it pub and say, um, what with me?
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Because it's just where we've been brought up Stigma.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, back full circle.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: One thing that I I noticed and I was it's all really big top on the film was there was an event for families as well.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Is that people of families, of people that have come into the events, or partners?
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: We do the Monday nights are men only.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Any other aspect every day of the week is we're trying to involve as many people as possible.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: The major part it sounds bizarre because it's a men's group the major part of the support Drive, the promotion, everything we get as it comes from women.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Now you kind of touched on it there yourself in your question whether that is because we have helped the man in their life or maybe because there's a man in their life somewhere that they know would benefit and he's still yet too stubborn to come along and See what we've got to offer, or not yet ready to come along and see what we've got to offer and we get massive support.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Now a lot of the events stuff again, I'll use leads as the prime example, given where we're recording this.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: A lot of the guys will Do extra activities outside the Monday nights.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: So leads do hold quite a regular I think it's monthly a walk and talk session.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: So they'll pick up an open space, whether it be rang day park or temple news or whatever, but they're very it to keep it, you know.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: So say we're getting still so they'll meet up there at set time.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: It does go out on there.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: They're public facing socials and anybody's welcome to come to that.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Anybody in community, anybody's just interested the guys themselves, their partners, the kids, you know.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Bring your dog along whatever as long as it won't be able enough Not to start scrapping with the dogs.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: But Spine the bike.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so there's.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of involvement behind the scenes.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: You know the vast majority of people that gain touch, certainly for me, you know, getting me businesses and organizations and stuff.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: A lot of it comes from women that I've heard of us and and whatever.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Traditionally they're not as encumbered by the stigmas around it that we can be.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a funny one that is.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: It sounds odd, sounds odd, but yeah, we are master.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: We won't be a fraction of what we are today without that, that support and driving stuff.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: So any opportunity to say thank you for that.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah and yeah, well, take on, yeah, thanks for the helping my life that we've had from strong ladies.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: What we're gonna say that and what we're gonna ask what you're at, you're a and these man comes a registered charity.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: It is indeed yeah.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: So what sort of events do you host and where's that Is that?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: It does that go to all the hiring of venues and things like this and generally?
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: speaking, I certainly open till this year.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: We don't host events.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: We get invited along to many, many, many events again, a lot of community stuff that goes on.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Personally speaking, I've been.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: You know how, if acts and we get invited to all sorts whether it's music, festivals or whatever they invite us to come and have a A start away for the day, they normally wave that fee to us so we can attend.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I've personally been involved with one in in Hippo.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: No, I'm just outside of how, if I just based out the rugby club again, that that physical connection there and they have a charity Music festival every year, that they invite us to have a start away for the day.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: You know the like our guys in for free.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I personally have been able to use my Photography to give them something back on right in exchange for that.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: So I'll take photos what bands and stuff so they can use it for promotion as well.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: They've been giving take.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: You know, life's all about that collaboration and it is is what makes the world go around.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: So if I can give them a little bit back for forgiving to and his man club as an organization, I'm more than I could do that.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, there's all sorts.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: You know, I did a wellness festival in Keithley a couple of weeks ago.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Again they heard about us.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: They were putting this event together.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: They invited us along, donated a bit of floor space for us to have a table there and just Just connect with people.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: So I say that we're open till this year.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: We do now have somebody in place that looks after events and arranges things and organize things and we have put together a run.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: So we had the first one this year which was over at Dallamere forest with a 10k.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I believe they did have a shorter version for any, any kids that wanted to get involved in stuff and that is rolling out going into 24th.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: So we're back at Dallamere and they are talking to other areas.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: It's all through forestry commission that I've got on board and I fully supportive and we're looking at sort of trying to keep down south as well for other people that you know catch.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I've looked up to, up to this part of the country and stuff.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: We get many again other big organizations on board.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you saw the recent coverage that Transpen I express have wrapped one of their trains with all our logo.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: I did see that and they had their initial run for it.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: We're based again around international Wednesday Back in November and they did a run across country with that that wrap train for us and it's still out there in service now.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I get contact from Various organizations that will choose us as their charity partner for a year.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: So in and amongst that, the lathers in for events, for awareness stalls and things like this.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: So we, you know, we can get that outreach into communities and stuff.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: And again, there's there's many things that our guys might approach and say look, you're presenting this, this town or city, whatever.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Can we arrange a time where it's?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: It's so, but we can come in for a couple of hours, pop a table, pop a banner up and just just hand cards out and talk to people.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: So from you know, from your your basic stall like that, up to having a marquee on site and guys there hold it, not marquee, because he but you know, and having that and having a presence day, all day, we do have merch.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: So if you know, if it's permanent, we're always check first if they're all right with us, something it will take a lot of.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: You know such some t-shirts, who these?
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: and pens and what have you I'm just looking here to see the spread of Actually say that, the spread of clubs, because obviously starting in sort of West Yorkshire- yeah, ali Fax, as you said earlier.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely spot on that.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: We're very first.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: But we've got.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I mean first woman comes, comes up his Aberdeen in it, so Like what yeah, I believe they all listed alphabetically, but if you go the search function it will direct you to.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: You're putting if you know a guy in London, manchester, in Sheffield, whatever he can put his location in, it'll direct him to.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Local club.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: So if someone was, let's ask this one.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: If somebody's wanting to open a club, if someone wanted one in their town, yeah, there may be, may or may not be in an instant, but they're thinking, you know, this is a good thing, I would, I would, I would they approach that?
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: So the the initial approach would be to email our central office, which is info at andy'smanclubcouk.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Talk about the venue.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: We do have a list of parameters, obviously.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: I have a sheet with a load of boxes I need to take.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Primary thing is access on a Monday night, every Monday except bank holidays, and then kind of ideal world.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: We need things like disabled access, disabled toilets, enough seats to put bums on, somewhere we can make a brew.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: We do supply all our own cups tea, coffee, sugar, etc.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: That goes with it.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: But it's just, you know, preferably some sort of water boiler or a very, very worst of plug that we can plug his own kettle into.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Is it strictly?
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Oxford tea as a preference.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: As a preference.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just Advertising plug for you, if you've talked to our clubs on the wrong side.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: It'll be the matter of a disagreement.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, one of the things we do at Discussies Politics and that could quite well be classed as politics.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: So we have fully enough.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: When I went on door, I'd always say that no politics, no football and no religion.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: You can talk about anything else but Football indeed these facilitators?
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: When someone wants to open up a club, do you train them up becoming a facilitator?
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: Do they go on regular training?
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: All of the above.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So we have again that's.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: That's, that's part of my job.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Now he's to bring on and train up other facilitators.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: We'd expect them to attend for a kind of minimum period if there's no set Fee for figure for that, if you will.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: But we don't want a guy walking in one day and say, right, you can be a facilitator, we need to be a.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: We don't judge you such, but make sure that the right character you want the right person there being, you know, inspirational for the other guys, especially the new guys coming that facilitator team for any venue.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: I'll use my own experience Ali Fax.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: I got brought onto that team.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: As I've been there more time served, I get involved in the discussions as well.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: This guy's been coming to us for eight, nine, ten weeks now.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: You know he's saying the right things, he's getting involved, he's been interactive, he's looking out, making sure other guys are all right and stuff.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: It could be a good addition.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: So we're now watching for a couple weeks, make sure we're all in agreement, go yeah.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: You know what we're then putting forward for training.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Once he's done the hour, he knows training is then added to that team and and so it goes.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: So it grows part of that expansion, then some of that team may have coming from a different area.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Like I sort of said earlier, and he might think Actually, my town, I'm ready to take it to my town.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: We start looking for a venue.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: This is where that checklist for the venues comes in.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: You have to give a big shout out to her, to the vast majority of our venues at this point in time.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: The vast majority of them do donate that space to us for free.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: They're putting the bill for that.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: We don't use much.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: It's a bit of lighting and a bit of heat enduring winter.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: But then you know there's access and stuff.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, big shout out to those, those venues that do donate that space to us.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: So that that's part of the process.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Checking transport links you know everybody drives.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Some of the guys might have to get their own bus.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Is it on a bus route?
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Things like that.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Making sure there's.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: You know we're over 18s only.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Big part of that is the safeguarding, because the guys are all volunteers.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: We don't want to put the burden on them to all be DBS checked.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: We'd have to do that if we had miners under.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: He's a part of it, not necessarily the whole thing.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: So we need to make sure there's no, no miners on the site.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: There's very sort of bits and bits that you know.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Maybe more putting into certain locations if it is upstairs, as there are lift Sounds obvious, but you know it's things we need to look at.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: So we've got the venue.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: It's then getting the right team making sure we've got guys that are capable of looking after it, making sure they're able to To withstand those pressures that it does bring.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: You know we want to put a team in, but there will always be a Lead, a point of contact.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: If you go for that team, it's more organization than anything, but it can bring its own stressors and strain.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: So it's putting the right team.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: The last thing we want to do is start providing a service in an area that's then Not sustainable.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: We don't want after a remover service ever.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: So there is a process to go through.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: A lot of our expansion, said earlier, has been that natural expansion.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: We do also offer an online group.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: So if a guy's in a part of country that we don't cover yet or can't get to us for whatever reason, we have this online in place.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Again he's accessible through that, that same email, the importandismanclubcouk, and that does actually enable us if guys you know attend their regular end up as online facilitators, we can then expand into areas of the country that we wouldn't normally have that reach for, and Lake District is a prime example of that.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: We've now got groups up there that you know if you've ever been it's it takes a while to get there and can take a while to get back out of again.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: So it does, yeah, work, work up there quite a lot.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a valuable inroad and you know, the chances are this guy's in other parts of country that are ready to To step into that role and open a face-to-face club.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: So we're always looking so how many people would come, or how many?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: What's your?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: What's like a, an average sort of capacity that you'd be looking for because you, I suppose you could have a.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: If you got too many, it could take away from the experience and sort of also be intimidating, I suppose.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's different because every town, every city, every district and as it's own little quirks and foibles and stuff to content with as a base aim to open a new venue.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: We'd be looking at a minimum capacity of 40 people again.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Last thing we wanted opening night 30 guys turn up and you can lift it 12 in.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: We don't want to turn anybody away either.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: It's a very, very rare occasion that somebody would get turned away from our doors.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: It's like, like I said, this new one that I'm opening.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I've had to go through all.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I'm had to go for a visit.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Just you know, take photos, check this parking, check it's on a bus route, check signage, check access, make sure there's a Somewhere at Mecca Brew, make sure there's enough seats and, yeah, it tick to heart boxes in it.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: It's perfect, and that is due for announcement.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: This week.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Is there any relevance why it's always on a Monday?
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Is it just a standard thing?
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, Monday's a pretty poor day in it when it after weekend.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: So you kind of it.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's going on.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, coming in it, coming into its sideways yeah, we've all heard that by eight Mondays expression.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: If we can give the guy a bit of something to look forward to on Monday, it can set him up for rest of week and also it steps right back to day one.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: And he was found on a Tuesday morning, right, and if he'd have had somewhere to go on a Monday night it may not have made that choice.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: It is, you know, it follows the weekend on it.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: If you've had a rough weekend of it and you you face with a Monday morning, that's a bit grim.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got shivers.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Then I'll be honest, it's growing at a rapid rate, isn't it now?
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Where do you see?
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Where do you see on his man club in five and maybe 10 years?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: So you mentioned that five, five year thing earlier.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: The initial aim was to have 10 groups in five years, but if you had not right and we hit 50, the long term goal was kind of to have a group within an hour of every man in the UK.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: We kind of joke about it, you know we want more than McDonald's.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, I hope you do.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I bloody hate McDonald's.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we've got some of that as well, but you know it's one of them, certainly for me personally and for us as a wider organisation, its goals are a good thing to have.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: If you set achievable goals when we are going, where we have grown down the road, who knows?
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: You know we'd like to think we could hit that and hopefully one day we will.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: You know we can't say enough as a charity.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: We're seven years old.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: That's nothing.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: We have very, very much in our infancy and we're already 172 groups.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Who knows where we've been at 10 years down the road, that's?
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: You know we've doubled, tripled in the last two years.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: We've got three years to go before we get 10 years old.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fingers crossed Do you know what it's like?
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: It's just shows how much need there is.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's two sides isn't it?
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: There's one.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: That's the success and it's very, very welcome from our part of Van Dysman Club.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: But on the other side you've got to look at that need has always been there, probably, and it just wasn't there and it's not being picked up Absolutely.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: And so all them lives that I mean.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: You know people I know well.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I've lost quite a few people too.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Were you Suicide is you look at those numbers?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: you look at those clubs, you could take them two ways.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: You know it's like we said earlier add them to those figures that are still choosing that option.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: It's even more horrific than it already is, but it's also proof in the pudding, you know.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: It proves that there is a need, as you've just rightly said, but it also proves that it works.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: It proves that guys will talk if you give them that platform to do so and put them in the right environment.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Believe me, some of the stuff I've heard, you cannot imagine what people go through that do keep it bottled up and keep it spinning circles in their own head until they've got that opportunity to offload and to just on birding themselves and share some of that stuff.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: When you come to your groups as a guest, do you have to register before and do you just come on the day, just turn up, just turn up.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: So it's quite anonymous then, yeah, we don't have guests, so to speak.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you attend a group, you are there as part of that group.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Now, there's absolutely no pressure to talk until you're ready to do so.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I would usually say to guys myself in that position look, there's no pressure to talk, but if you can say something, chances are you'll be feeling better for it.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: We do have a ball that gets passed around.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: We call it the talking ball.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: If you're not ready to answer a question, just pass it on.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: You know, nobody's here to judge you.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: We do get people that do visit and do come along to experience the group and see what it's all about, but we do ask that they participate.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Now, they may not answer the questions, but they are expected to sit in the circle and, you know, participate in passing that ball around.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: I guess not everyone will be there because of suicidal thoughts.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: No, absolutely, there's a might just feel a bit down or like with your story you came because of a different reason.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: It's quite important to make everyone feel inclusive.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: I would say it's about balance.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: You know, if everybody in that room is answering every question with my life's terrible I'm going through this and that it's self-perpetuates.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: If you've got guys going around in that room, there are going to be people that share that.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: And then you come to the next guy how's your evening?
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: You know, I've had a fantastic time of it.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I went here and really enjoyed it and that gives it balance.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: It's offset.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: It allows that guy that is going through stuff to see there can be better times, you know if I get through with it.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: So it's a thing for them to do, come on.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Again, shared experience, shared activities.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: You know I've met many other guys I've now got on my personal Facebook that I've met through on his man club that are in topography or in the mountain biking.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I've been all around country mountain biking with guys that I've met through on his man club.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: It's part and parcel of that.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking, I suppose with that you get somebody coming through the door, for example, first night a bit One.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: They've had a reason to come, so they've took that first step, which for me, the first step forward on improving or moving that right in a positive direction, is probably the biggest step because you've, it's a realization that there's, there's something that needs addressing, and the hardest, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: So, and they've, they've took that step and then they come into a group.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Not everyone's in that room is on their first step.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: So you've got people that are coming week after week, that are probably coming out with success stories, like you say, there, absolutely I don't know.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: For example, you know I could if I'd have been going.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Now I've been going for two months and now you know I've been coming two months and now I feel great and I've got some new friends and, like you say, and we're getting texts.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Right back to my story.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: I've imposed them, but I got mate.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: It's like, do I stop coming and risk losing them?
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Now I'll do it.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Stick through it.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: And I stuck through it.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Like I say, I've been around six years in there.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Well, first week after Christmas it was my six year anniversary, you know, and it has become a lifestyle.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: I don't see this as a job, you know, it's just I enjoy every minute of it.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: A little bit selfish angle, if you will, but it's my way of giving back, you know, except my son's life, that's it.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: A day I can never repair.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm paying interest off.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, mate, I think what you're doing, what you're self personally doing obviously putting all this time and effort in and what and his man club are doing, and everybody that's part of it is just fantastic.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Because even if I think you know if someone listens to this, that doesn't that's still not ready to take that step, as in coming into a meeting just knowing that there are guys and we've already mentioned it generally don't talk, generally keep things bottled up because of stigmas and societies.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: So go back to that man.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: The fuck up job.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Then just listen to this will be a benefit, absolutely.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I always say if a guy's thinking about it right, you've got two ways of looking at it.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: What's the worst that can happen?
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: So absolute worst outcome is you're going to turn up, you're going to get a free brew, you're going to get a free biscuit, and it's two hours of your life.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: You're not getting back.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: But you flip that coin over.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: What's the potential best outcome?
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: You meet a bunch of new mates, you get a new social circle.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: It's not going to cost you all.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: You are potentially going to find ways to improve the situation that you find your life in at this moment in time and possibly take inspiration from somebody else's similar journey.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: There will always be things that cross over.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I always use relationship breakup ones as a perfect example.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: If somebody goes through that breakup, that set of circumstances is unique to that couple, whatever happens to them.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Nobody else has gone through the same, but there will be many, many other people that go through relationship breakups.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Chances are there will be somebody in that room that has gone through or is going through a relationship breakup.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Search two purposes.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Eight proves that you're not on your own.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: A big part of where depression works is isolating, making you know it's like.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Why is this only happening to me?
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Having that, that proof in front of you that it's not only you that it's life's pouring down on, can be a big comfort to people and, like you said, people further down that journey.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: They share how they've got through that particular time in their life, how they will come here and where they are now, so that guy can then take inspiration from that and maybe look at some of those options as a way to help himself.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: You know, that's what.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: That's how peer support works is we allow you to find ways to help yourself and then support you along that journey.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Like I say again, Andy, thank you for coming in, and I think I can speak for Seb as well, but thank you for everything that Andy's manclub's doing for everyone to, like you say, break the stigma and getting men to talk.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: We will put the what's it called?
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: You call it blurb, we will put the details in the podcast, but you've also you've got the what's the hashtag.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: I've lost it.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: It's okay to talk and that one man and that one yeah.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: So it's okay to talk is our ethos, if you will, our motto, our day to day, everything that we stand for, our bread and butter, is that one man.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: It's getting that one man through our doors, and then the next one, and then the next one.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Brilliant.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, andy.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you, andy.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Cheers Good.