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The Story of Fleetwood Mac: The band that survived its own relationships · GARAGE TO STADIUMS Music History Podcast

• Dave Anthony 0:01 Hi there. I'm Dave Anthony and this is the Garage to Stadiums podcast. On each episode we tell you the story of how one of our music legends rose from obscurity to fame and play some of the songs that mark that journey. Dave Anthony 0:15 Welcome to Garage to Stadiums. Today's story is about the band Fleetwood Mac. Whether you're a casual fan or a Mac diehard. What you're about to hear is an incredible story. As you'll learn Fleetwood Mac has had three very different eras over their history and if you can believe it, over 18 different band members. Once you hear this episode, I think you'll agree that this band has an absolute soap opera inter-band romantic relationships, breakups, drug addictions, band breakups. They even had one member leave the band to join a cult and yet to this day, Fleetwood Mac remains one of the most successful groups of all time. When they first started, Fleetwood Mac was a group heading down a completely different music style path almost unrecognizable to the subsequent radio hits that we all recognize talent, tragedy, incredible strokes of faith, and perseverance have all come together to create one of the most iconic sounds in the history of rock. This band has sold a monumental 120 million plus albums. To tell us the story of Fleetwood Mac we have today's guest Mark Blake. Mark is an author who's written about music since 1989. He's authored books on bands like The Who, Queen, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin. His upcoming book �Dreams: the A to Z of Fleetwood Mac� is coming out this coming fall and Garage to Stadiums listeners today have the early privilege of hearing about its insider details. Mark is joining us from London in the UK. Welcome to Garage to Stadiums, Mark. Hi, nice to be here. Thank you for having me. Fleetwood Mac started way back in 67. But before we get into the specifics of the band, I'd like you Mark to set the stage for our listeners of what it was like in England in the early to mid 60s, the type of music that was sort of pervasive at the day. Mark Blake 2:07 Well, they were part of what was called the sort of blues boom, r&b, British r&b Boom, which is basically in many cases working class or middle class white English or British kids that became absolutely fascinated by black American music. America wasn't really interested, but the British were so they were totally into Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf, Sonny Boy Williams, Stones, certainly less so the Beatles, but the Stones there was this fascination with blues, if any, it was difficult to get hold of those records, they weren't played on the radio, they had to be bought as input. So that makes anything more attractive. If it's slightly taboo, or it's slightly hidden. And it requires some thought. That's that was part of the popularity, I think of blues. It was difficult music to get hold of, and it was seen as authentic. So what you had is these kind of white middle class English boys and it was often boys trying to copy, you know that they're black American heroes, right? It's very fascinating that obviously, the black musicians were unknown to white America. White English men primarily play the music and then export it back to the US. Back to you. Yeah, I mean, he's hilarious. The Rolling Stones. It's surprisingly funny. Unbelievable. Interestingly, the founder of the band, Fleetwood Mac was a guitar player named Peter Green, who was only in the band for a few years. Peter Green's original name was Peter Greenbaum. He grew up in East London, in a Jewish family, and his dad was a butcher. In his teens, Mark, he became somewhat of a guitar prodigy after learning guitar from his older brother. Tell us a little bit more about Peter and his founding mission for Fleetwood Mac. Well, I mean, Peter was a very gifted guitar player but quite a sensitive person, quite fragile person. He could be incredibly I think bullish and super confident, had a lot of bravado and but from the moment he sort of decided he wanted to become a guitar player, he encountered Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, on the circuit and Jeremy Spence was well, who was their second guitar player and he sort of came together from there. His original thing was a put together a Chicago blues band. And so it's interesting because it very much started as that blues vein, the fans who know Fleetwood Mac wouldn't really, maybe know about that history. What were the origins of the Fleetwood Mac band name? Mark Blake 5:05 Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, he liked the idea of naming the band after two other guys other than himself. There's a story he gave at the time as if I disappear, if I go, if I leave, you still got the band. The band named carries on. How successful was the early Fleetwood Mac sort of blues era, I guess I'll call it. They put two albums, two studio albums out in 1968, about eight months apart. They had a great reputation as a live act. They were really loud, raucous, live acts, but they knocked out those first two albums, like I say, in a matter of months. And by the end of 68, beginning of 69. They're moving into a different direction. Peter Green is pushing them away from the blues. I see. How would you characterize the change that what happened to the music as? First of all, I mean, he brought in another guitar player called Danny Kirwan. So you've got Peter Green, who's been heralded as one of the greatest guitarists in the country along with Eric Clapton because he wanted to expand the sound it didn't just want to be the only guitar in there a big breakthrough hit here was called �Albatross�, which is an instrumental which doesn't sound anything like the blues and it upset a lot of their blues audience that that were used to them, you know, doing blues, but it was immediately the beginning of something else something different. Dave Anthony 6:33 Let's play that a little bit of that �Albatross� now. Mark Blake 6:39 Yeah, then you say you've got �Albatross�, which is very kind of chilled out. So that's kind of stuff that's not going to scare mums and dads even parents like that come their music in the next thing you've got is the green, a song called �The Green Manalishi�, he�s also experimenting with mescaline, which is an hallucinogic. So you've got this very dense, scary kind of heavy metal song. One minute, you're just ripping off black American blues with and having a good time and singing about sex and drinking. Next minute, you've got a song called �The Green Manalishi�. It's a two prong crown. It's like what? What does it mean? You know, immediately it's I like to go somewhere. Very, very different. Dave Anthony 7:35 And then I guess we move into the phase mark, something rather tragic happens that sort of changes the course of this band. Talk about what happens to our founder, Peter Green. Mark Blake 7:40 Well, it happened over a period of time. And when I interviewed Peter Green, he's talking one minute he's sitting talking normally like you and I are now and then the next minute, he's imagining that there's somebody sat next to me a woman wearing a yellow dress, and then wasn't. So he could be completely normal cracking jokes, laughing about how successful Fleetwood Mac were and how many millions of records they sold. And then it'll turn immediately something he's seeing or experiencing something else. And this is how his behavior became towards the end of the 60s beginning of the 70s. But there is a some evidence that you know, there were mental health issues there anyway, but they got exacerbated, perhaps by taking acid, there was an experience where they went to a commune in Munich, and he spent a day there, took acid and so on, and the band always claimed he was never the same when he came back. But what it meant was that he left the group that that was what happened. So at the peak of their success, just as they're starting to make money, they lose him and he is the primary songwriter, the primary force in the band. Right, so now we're in what 1970 ish? Yeah. 70 Yeah. And so Peters left. Mick Fleetwood, I guess takes over as the de facto leader. Christine Perfect was her maiden name was brought in after marrying John McVie. Ends up with Mick Fleetwood and the McVies. Danny Kerwan for a bit. Bob Welch, the American comes in. Then Danny Kerwan, he disappears. Keep up with this because yes, you need a scorecard here. It's unbelievable. Yeah, it is definitely. So where we're at by about 1971 by 1971. They're all living in a big house, in the Hampshire countryside. All of them the band and their roadies and dogs. Some of them have got young kids. And in the midst of this is this guy called Bob Welch. He's an American who arrives in Britain. You know, like, his musical career has been up and down. He's got nothing. So do you want to join Fleetwood Mac is like Well, okay. 10:00 His description of coming from Los Angeles he's a Hollywood guy born and bred in Hollywood, coming to the Hampshire countryside with these people that he described as like trying to live with members of the royal family. 10:13 Just their Englishness, their airs and graces and everything he�s a fish out of water. And he actually did an awful lot to keep that band going. Oh, interesting. So how would you characterize era two of Fleetwood Mac then? As I'll call it era two. Yeah, it's just in a way it's like the forgotten Fleetwood Mac. I mean, there's all five albums like and there's good stuff on those records, but they're not cohesive. You've got to cherry pick through it. Right. But it's very much the Bob It's a period in which Bob Welch and Christine McVie, start writing songs often so and sharing ideas together may become the driving force, songwriting within the band, and they tour America they become they'd be they get quite big in America, not massive but quite big. But they, they'd forgotten in the UK, you know that they don't have hits or anything like that. So the trajectory of the band, they sort of change to a US focus. Why don't we play a song from one of the album's �Future Games�, there's a song called �Sands of Time� and I'm playing this to show really the early start of some harmonies that might play a future role. Dave Anthony 11:32 Green gone drummer Mick Fleetwood emerges as the band's leader, tell us a bit about Mick, his personality where he grew up. Well make it Mick�s father was a wing commander in the Royal Air Force. And he went to a number of different what's called private schools, fee paying schools. So you get minor royal family members and politicians there and he was absolutely useless academically. Mark Blake 11:55 The only thing he was good at doing was playing drums, fencing, he was very good at fencing and dressing as a woman in school productions because it goes there boys schools, so he was very tall and slim and feminine looking his stick a dress on him, and knew he could play Ophelia in Shakespeare, but he was absolutely useless academically, but his parents supported him and he moved to London when he was 15. Lived with his sister and was playing in bars and clubs when he was 15, 16, or thereabouts. The one thing he wanted to do was music. And the one thing he wanted to keep going was Fleetwood Mac, by any means that it took. So it's like the guy would stick. It's stuck with them through thick and thin. So it doesn't matter how many people leave, Yeah, in will find someone else to replace them. Yeah. He's the one constant throughout the band. Yeah. And a little known tidbit, he married the sister of someone relatively famous. Yeah, he's married. He's married to was married to a fashion model called Jenny Boyd. The sister Patti Boyd's with George Harrison, for many, many years. In fact, he married Jenny boy, twice, he divorced that and then married her again. And then they got divorced again. But I mean, those sisters must imagine what life was like for those sisters in the seventies. One of them's matched to George Harrison, one of them's merits of Mick Fleetwood. Dave Anthony 13:26 Yeah, that's hard work in what has to be one of the most incredible against the stroke of luck in the history of rock. We've got this era two band. That's, as you said, unknown in the UK, transition to the US, traveling around the US trying to get rolling again. They go into I guess Mick goes into Scout Studios. Tell us what happens. That's probably the seminal moment that puts these, this next era over the top. Mark Blake 13:56 Yeah, he's in he's in a recording studio up in the hills is now happening in LA and he's asked why he's gone grocery shopping. I'm sent to a guy works studio and mixer This is one of the luckiest grocery trips ever take. One of the greats is in that store is still is still there. This guy comes up to him in the store and recognizes him says I'm working out the studio Sound City I think it was called. And says why don't you check it out? Mick Fleetwood goes, well I'm looking for somewhere to make the next Fleetwood Mac album. So it goes up there. And while he's there, he's introduced the producer, a guy called Keith Olsen, who I interviewed a few years ago is no longer with us. And what Keith said he could put on some music to demonstrate the sound of the desk. And what you put on was a couple of tracks by a folky sort of boy girl juror called Buckingham Nicks that he'd been looking after and producing. And they were in the studio themselves at the time, coincidentally in another room. He puts on this song, Mick starts sort of the words were grooving along. That's what he says. Mark Blake 15:00 Every time Mick Fleetwood tells his story though, it just becomes more sort of romantic and wonderful. Glimpses of beautiful Steven Nicks through the glass and he hears this amazing guitarist who reminds me of Peter Green. Anyway, long story short, he goes away. Bob Welch phones him up and says I'm leaving the band. So is that oh Christ, we're back to that again. It's just him and the McVies. And he's like ah ha but I saw this this amazing duo. What he wanted was Lindsey Buckingham, the guitarist. And of course, the story is that they had to come as a pair. But he took them out. They all went out for lunch together or dinner together in a Mexican restaurant. Mark Blake 15:42 And you know, a few margaritas later, they all get on great. And it's like, hey, you know, well, you can join the band as well, we Stevie Nicks. So he takes the pair of them on, which of course, is the best thing that could possibly happen. Yeah, that's the unbelievable story. And to have two women in the band at the same time was quite something in the 70s. I would think. Yes, it was, I mean, then they would they were treated as second class citizens. That's fine. A story about them being on stage during soundcheck and a production manager from the theater coming in, get those broads off the stage get those problems out. They thought they were someone's girlfriend. Oh my god, that was it. But this is why you're Christine. If you've ever interviewed Christine McVie several times, she's the toughest cookie you met was the toughest cookie imaginable. So was Stevie Nicks in different ways, because they had to deal with this sort of bullshit. But for well, over a decade, at least, right. Tell us about Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham at that point in their careers, where were they from? How did they meet? Yeah, well, they was they met they were at the same high school. Mark Blake 16:51 And they met for about 10 minutes in a sort of After School Music Club.I think the story was that Lindsey Buckingham was playing that Mamas and Papas son, Calif, California Dreaming and Stevie Nicks came over and sort of threw in a few harmonies. And then Lindsey Buckingham was playing in a sort of college band. And then few months later, they got Stevie Nicks in as a singer. But they weren't together as a romantic couple. They were involved with other people. But the general feeling was that, you know, for her, she saw her she said that as soon as she joined that band, she saw herself as a pop star. And so she was on a mission to go somewhere else. And they got a little record deal. They made an album that didn't sell at all wasn't promoted. And they were living, you know, they were rock. She was waitressing. She was waiting tables. Like, I'm an artiste. I have to stay home, right. Yeah, like she was even cleaning houses, I read. She's waiting tables, and she worked in a burger chain. And he would stay at home just kind of playing guitar having a smoke, being creative writing his songs. I don't like why she didn't just tell him to get out their job. It's out by him. And you know, that's why and the rest is history. Tell us what are their respective personalities like the two of them? They�re very funny in different ways you take he takes, Lindsey Buckingham takes things very, very seriously took the music very, very seriously. I've noticed over the last few years, the last time I interviewed him, which would have been 2021. I think he'd lightened up a little bit more. But yeah, quite intense. But that intensity is what they needed. He was absolutely focused on. I want the band to sound this way, producing the set records helping other people's material. She of course, was not a traditional musician. She didn't she couldn't play the instruments that he could when she had this way of singing these ways, way with melodies. And she a lot of what she did was kind of counterintuitive. If you're a songwriter used to drive Lindsey Buckingham mad like you can't rhyme. You got too many words in here. That doesn't make sense. But it made sense. He listened to a song like �Dreams�. Yeah, you know, he's like, You can't do that. While I'm doing it. I'm doing it. So that two of them, he sees it sort of dynamic. Yeah, she's almost like a poet. And he's kind of the craftsman of the music. Absolutety, so he's, you know, he's constantly trying to sort of mold into a more conventional shape, I guess. And she's like, No, I'm doing it. I'm doing it my way. The band, Mark comes out with the an album in 75 called �Fleetwood Mac� simply called �Fleetwood Mac�, and the added dimension of Stevie and Lindsey certainly starts to pay some dividends of vocal harmonies hits like �Rhiannan�, �Landslide�, �Over My Head�, �Say You Love Me�. Dave Anthony 20:41 What's interesting is there's a triad of writers in the band now. Mark Blake 20:47 That's right. Yeah. Because Christine McVie, has got her confidence as a writer and she said that having those two in the band encouraged her made her up her game. But they also contributed particularly Lindsey Buckingham ideas to her songs like you say they hadn't had a hit for years before the album, right? Then comes time to follow up that successful album. Could they follow up the hits on that with their next studio effort? I mean, they've set the bar high for themselves. Tell us about the absolutely what I'll call insane conditions surrounding the band, as it goes into the studio, in Sausalito, California, north of San Francisco across the Golden Gate Bridge. Tell us a little bit about the atmosphere surrounding that album. Well, you've got you've got two couples, two romantically involved couples in a band, you basically split up I mean, the McVie's have been splitting up and getting back together for a couple years before that. Stevie Nicks said that she and Lindsey Buckingham were splitting up almost before they joined the band anyway. So it's kind of everyone's sticking together. I remember interviewing Christine McVie and she said, Well, you know, we weren't going to let the band fall apart for something as trivial as a divorce, which is what she said at the time. So the band came first, over everything so but of course, you've got this unavoidable tension in studio. So you know, remember Ken Caillat, the co-producer of �Rumours�, saying to me, you know, he just be sitting at the mixing desk. Suddenly you hear a commotion. And Christine McVie, is throwing a glass of champagne in John McVie�s face for something for something he'd said, or there you know, Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks will be singing these beautiful harmonies together at the microphone, the minute the button went off, that's a day take a bomb went off, they just start screaming each other on as soon as the buttons back on singing in harmony that was it like that every day all day. But you're producing a record with two people. With four people who've probably been happy and not seeing each other. And Mark, you have a third couple breaking up in Mick Fleetwood breaking up from his wife, Jenny Boyd. So that's three couples breaking up. As the album is being recorded. It's unbelievable. You know, there's no escape. The relationships have ended, but they weren't able to get away from me. Get away from it. And there's an added element. Dave Anthony 23:10 Does Mick start seeing Stevie around that time? Mark Blake 23:16 That's I think that's a little bit later. It doesn't help that she then in between she starts a relationship with Don Henley from the �Eagles�. So,that's like the Eagles are the biggest Eagles and Fleetwood Mac, they are the two biggest bands in America. Right? And you know Don Henley�s afro is as big as Lindsey Buckingham. So you got two intense guys with big hair and be writing these songs and he's gone off with the other ones misses. So of course you've got you've got the added thing that no, it's not as if she split up with him. She's going out with the rival band writers. But then yes, but a bit later she takes up with Mick Fleetwood and the drugs start Yeah, take a toll I mean, well, I think there was a lot of recreational cocaine use but when you speak to the band members some it's like any band four or five been some have their nose in the trough more than others. Not everybody was Lindsey Buckingham swears blind never did as much as the others. Mick Fleetwood was an animal for it. And so is so much psychological overhead. I'll call it it's a wonder that they've been completed the album The main songwriters, Christine McVie, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham all brought their I guess baggage into their notebooks, penning songs that told stories about the circumstances. In fact, John McVie, suggested calling the album ��Rumours�� because each of them was writing about each other in those journals. Dave Anthony 24:44 Let's go one by one through the songs rapid fire and Mark you tell us, you tell us how you interpret the songs for the listeners because I'm sure a lot of people have heard these songs and don't know the real story behind them. So what is �Dreams� about? Mark Blake 25:00 �Dreams� is Stevie Nicks saying to Lindsey Buckingham Hey calm down get on with your life now that I've got rid of you now that we've set up arm down and get on with your life. Dave Anthony 25:25 Okay what is �Go Your Own Way� about? Mark Blake 25:29 Lindsey Buckingham been very cross about breaking up with Stevie Nicks and telling her to go her own way are so unique shacking up with all he wants to do, which is obviously a very bad comment at her. Even up until a few years ago she you could still see her cringing on stage when he sang that Dave Anthony 25:58 Shacking up with, I guess presumably what he means with other fellows, etc? Mark Blake 26:08 Other fellows, Don maybe? Yeah. Dave Anthony 26:15 All right, we moved to the next song that Mark Blake, our esteemed guest is going to interpret for us like the Tarot cards. What about �You Make Loving Fun�? Mark Blake 26:21 Yeah, that's Christine McVie song, supposedly for her new boyfriend, who was Fleetwood Mac's lighting engineer. So that you know, she not only leaves the husband, for a new guy. He used to go on his work in the lights. Dave Anthony 26:46 This is like the plot of a soap opera like this, this recording of this album, every week, there's a divorce a breakup or somebody seeing somebody else. The next song, what about �Gold Dust Woman�? Mark Blake 26:58 What you know what they that supposedly a song about drugs. But Stevie Nicks has said it's about drugs. And then other times she said it's not. It's a very spooky sounding song. I mean, I think that's a song that captures the darkness in the studio. Dave Anthony 27:23 And perhaps the last one we'll do here is �The Chain�. Could that tell you about something? Mark Blake 27:33 That's about all of them, isn't it? You gotta see the line you can never break the chain. That's about the five of them. Look, you know, we're in a terrible mess. But you can't break the band. And that's why it's credited to all five of them. It's one of the few Fleetwood Mac songs where it's credited to all of them. Dave Anthony 28:05 And that song went on to become quite famous in what the F1 circuit, was it not? Mark Blake: 28:12 Yeah, when I first heard it as a kid, it was on TV on motor motor racing shows, I heard �Rumours�, and when Oh, that's the song off that and when I grown up with it, you know, for a couple of years before I heard yeah. Dave Anthony 28:44 Great tune the resulting album from all that turmoil that Mark�s just described so well. The 1977 �Rumours� produced four top US 10 singles and remained at number one on the Billboard 200 for 31 weeks. It's the eighth best selling album of all time. By 1980 Stevie who's now about 32 years old is getting a bit frustrated by the fact that she has difficulty getting all her songs on do Fleetwood Mac records and it's understandable. You've got Christine McVie prolifically writing Lindsey Buckingham as well. They're incredible songwriters in their own right. And those days. For those that don't remember albums, there was probably about 10 slots on every elbow. So you've got three writers vying for those positions. What does this lead to which in its own way threatens the integrity of the band? Mark Blake 29:28 Well, you've got Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham both got solo record deals. And Lindsey Buckingham makes a solo album that isn't very successful. And Stevie Nicks makes one which is huge. Goes to number one. And of course, there's naturally feeling fear within the band that she's going to leave. Although she's adamant that she won't. But then having made that out, and she then goes and makes another one that's very successful as well. So the 80s is a very strange it's a sensitive period. Dave Anthony 30:02 The early 80s are here the impact of their relentless touring lifestyle. A few things happen to individuals in the band. Do you want to just comment on that? Mark Blake 30:19 Everybody goes off and does solo things. Then Mick Fleetwood goes bankrupt. So he gets them back together. But either way, he's like, I've got to get Fleetwood Mac back together. Yeah, what persuades Lindsey Buckingham back. But at that time, Stevie Nicks had gone into the Betty Ford Clinic, you know, which was a very famous rehab center at that time. And she goes in there to get off cocaine. So she does join the sessions for the album that became �Tango in the Night�, but she's kind of underrepresented on the community backing has talked about you know, he she was there for just a few days and he had to, we had to work very, very hard to get her voice in her song on that album, which I think you can hear when you when you listen to it. Lots of it feels like a Lindsey Buckingham solo record or Christine McVie record. Yeah, so that's �Tango in the Night�. In 87 and it�s got �Sweet Little Lies�, written by Christine. Dave Anthony 31:13 But I guess it would not be Fleetwood Mac without another incident that sparks someone leaving the band. This is like an episode of the reality show �Cops�. What happens next? They have a meeting at Christine McVie�s house presumably to talk about maybe the upcoming tour. Mark Blake 31:30 So tour booked and Lindsey Buckingham turned up and said, Look, I'm not going to do the tour. And the reason he gave that is he just couldn't stand. His version is that he couldn't stand the amount of drug use was in the band and he just couldn't face going on the road. At which point him and Stevie Nicks get into a massive fight. She's accused him of some things he's denied them. We don't know. John McVie, gets in the middle of it. Dave Anthony 31:59 It becomes physical as well. Mark Blake 32:11 You're supposedly becomes physical and it happens outside on the cars outside Christine McVie�s, sort of mentioned so probably, you know, someone's sort of over the bonnet of a Rolls Royce. Anyway, Lindsey Buckingham leaves and Fleetwood Mac do the tour with two other guitarists and replace him. Dave Anthony 32:21 Yeah, Billy Burnett and Rick Vito restaurant. Yeah, the unknown guitar players of Fleetwood Mac. So the band then goes on with it. Buckingham as he said, but essentially, it takes a hiatus for a few years until one of their songs makes a comeback and maybe talk a little bit about who brought that song about. Mark Blake 32:40 That's right. I mean, they did. They did make a couple of albums, I should say, in the 80s that nobody remembers. And they weren't very good. And they did tour and they did you know, diminishing returns, then Bill Clinton has �Don't Stop� as his kind of campaign song. Dave Anthony 33:11 �Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow�. Mark Blake 33:18 Yeah. Right tomorrow. That's right, which he loved from �Rumours�. He was a governor of Arkansas or something when that album came out. He loved that song. Apperantly campaign people said look, it's the 90s he Why are you Why have you got a Fleetwood Mac song you know, they're not cool, but he insists on it. And they various sleight of hand and conversations, the five of them the classic lineup, get back together to play his inauguration ball in Maryland in 92. They get up on stage has some fabulous footage online of the Clintons joining them on stage. Bill has a tambourine which he tries to play with a gaffer tape the bells on it so it doesn't make a noise. Yeah, the gaffer tape that any quickly gives it to an aide. But yeah, that song had the second wind because it was his campaign song and he I think he carried on using it after that. Dave Anthony 34:14 And so then we fast forward I guess we go into the 2009 10s McVie, I guess doesn't like flying is that sort of the reason that she's not touring or she just? Mark Blake 34:24 Yeah, she just left and she did. She wanted to go back to England live in England. I think her father was very ill at the time. I remember interviewing about this and she just said I've had enough just wanted go home opener said she wanted to open a restaurant, which she never did. But she went to live in a big house in the country and she became a little bit agoraphobic. And then a few years later, she came back to the band. She decided she wanted to do it again. I think before it was before it was too late. But yes, it's basically the touring classic hits, tours. And I guess for a couple years they're all together the Fab Five we'll call them 2016 to 2018, but then, Dave Anthony 35:00 more drama, Lindsey quits. Now why does he quit? What's the circumstances there? I mean, he seems like a mercurial fellow at the best of times. Mark Blake 35:14 But what well, he had to quit because he was either him or Stevie Nicks. And they chose, they chose Stevie Nicks. He'd upset her in some way. There's various stories about this. He supposedly smoked behind her while she was on stage, giving a speech at a charity event, which you can look at it online. I looked at it, and then the others are all kind of laughing because she chats quite long time, right? But I interviewed Lindsey Buckingham, he said he was doing some solo tour, touring, and he wanted them to delay their tour to accommodate him. But the end of the day, if you had to choose, they can't go on the road without Stevie Nicks. Yeah, who is the biggest star right? Even if they have to, as long as I remember talking to Lindsey Buckingham about this and he said, Look, I understand how it works, because you said, half the people in a football stadium watching Fleetwood Mac don't even know I'm not there. He said as long as they see Stevie Nicks, they don't care. Yeah. You know, maybe Mick Fleetwood they don't they don't care. Yeah, that's why they went out on the road without him. Dave Anthony 36:22 Yeah. And they picked up Mike Campbell of the �Tom Petty� band as a guitarist and Neil Finn of the 80s bands, �Split Enz� and �Crowded House�. Mark Blake 36:33 Yes, that's right. Yeah. What is their legacy? Let's get to the sort of where does Fleetwood Mac stand in music history of what made them unique? I think what made them unique at the time was having, like you say, three strong songwriters who all wrote hits, having two women in the band that the wrote and sang, they weren't backing singers. They were formed with Christine McVie was a great piano player. You know, Stevie, they both wrote songs. And also it's kind of, it's the transition of the music. It's what they started out and what they became completely different. But there's this sort of weird thread that runs through. And you know, whether that's down to the rhythm section, I can't quite put my finger on what it is what I've tried in this book, but I think there's a there's a unity to everything they did, somehow, but I think it crosses boundaries and genres and a lot of people listening a lot of musicians now grew up listening to that music and you can hear it. You can hear it in country music. You can hear it a lot of folk rock a lot of pop music. It's there. You can hear �Rumours� in so much stuff. Now. It's never really gone out of date. It hasn't �Rumours� hasn't dated, you know, and a lot of that, like you say the Fab Five stuff. It's very, it's timeless. Dave Anthony 37:40 Give me a one or two words to describe each member of that classic five lineup. I'll give you the name you give me the couple words. Okay, Mick Fleetwood, 37:52 Mark Blake Aristocratic. Dave Anthony 37:53 Very good. How about we go to John McVie? We haven't talked about him much Mark Blake 38:00 Down to earth. Dave Anthony 37:53 Christine McVie? Mark Blake 38:04 Even more down to earth. Dave Anthony 8:07 Lindsey Buckingham. Mark Blake 38:09 Tortured genius. Dave Anthony 38:13 That's brilliant. Stevie Nicks? Mark Blake 38:18 Fairy Queen. Dave Anthony 38:22 She has got her own contingent of fans that are incredible. Mark Blake 38:28 It's extraordinary to see yes. Dave Anthony 38:30 All right, Mark. We're now at that point where we've got to choose our guests choose three lesser known cuts everyone knows the hits. But what should we listen to on sort of the back sides or early albums? What are some of the lesser known cuts? Mark Blake 38:55 You mentioned the �Future Games� album the title track of which is a Bob Welch so I heard it again because he's in the Cameron Crowe movie �Almost Famous�. So I will choose �Future Games� because that's one of the sort of unusual songs that's in the middle between Peter Green era and the Fab Five era. Mark Blake 39:11 I'll choose a couple of others though from the next Buckingham era things like I think �Silver Springs�, which is a Stevie Nicks song that was left off �Rumours� she desperately wanted on �Rumours�. She was not happy about that. No she went mad they because they took it off and didn't tell her and the she got it back on the later reissues when they do these box sets. It's but it's a great song. Dave Anthony 39:50 That's a that's a brilliant song. Mark Blake 39:53 It's a it's a brilliant song. There's also another Stevie Nicks song called �Beautiful Child� which is on �Tusk� and her songs on the �Tusk� album, And this is about her having an affair with the Beatles old publisher publicist, Derek Taylor, who was about 15 years older than her and married. And she had a fling with him and wrote a song about it. She didn't tell anyone it was about him until after he died. Well, it's a great song. Dave Anthony 40:33 Stevie certainly has, you know, the praise of the younger generation, the Taylor Swift's and all these young performers who absolutely love her. Mark Blake 40:45 Yeah, she did a track with Lana Del Rey, which is a really good song, which, you know, she she's got that she translates. She became friends with Harry Styles. You know, he worships her. Right? Again, it's that timelessness because she's just she's kinda like she was in the 70s. You just an older woman? She never. Yeah. She just carried on wearing what she was wearing before. Dave Anthony 40:57 Yeah, that's right. That's right, Mark. This has been a real pleasure to have you on the show and we appreciate it. Mark Blake 41:12 Thanks. Hope is all good. Dave Anthony 41:16 Some closing notes on Fleetwood Mac. We talked about the Stevie Nicks Lindsey Buckingham romantic relationship and virtual rivalry to this day to outdo each other. Well, if you use industry accolades as the measure of success, Stevie Nicks stands alone as one of the few performers nominated to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame both as an individual artist and as a member of a band, Fleetwood Mac. Today's guest Mark Blake talked about the enduring legacy of their pinnacle album 1977, entitled �Rumours� in May of 2011, an episode of the TV show Glee, and titled �Rumours� featured six songs from that album, The show sparked renewed interest in the band, and its most commercially successful album. And incredibly, the 35 year old album �Rumours� re-entered the billboard 200 chart at number 11. In the same week of the �Glee� episode. We mentioned that one band member left to join a cult during a US tour in 1971. The group suffered a loss when a founding member Jeremy Spencer went out to buy a magazine, quote unquote, and instead joined a religious cult called �The Children of God�. Musicians often work other jobs before their big break and the Fleetwood Mac members were no exception. We discussed how Stevie Nicks cleaned houses, while Mick Fleetwood was supposed to be a window cleaner before helping found the band and John McVie, the bassist was already training to be a tax inspector when his opportunity came. Hard to imagine a drugged out John McVie, coming around to collect your retail sales tax. In April 2018. The Stevie Nicks pen song �Dreams� re-entered the �Hot Rock Songs� chart at number 16 after a viral meme featuring someone filming themselves skateboarding while drinking cranberry juice to the tune. �Dreams� almost immediately spiked on streaming platforms with 8.5 million streams in a matter of days. This chart re-entry came 40 years after the song had topped the Top 100 You can visit our website garagetostadiums.com and see the show notes for this episode to find the official Garage to Stadiums Fleetwood Mac playlist, including guest Mark Blake's three lesser known pics and the transcripts for the episode. While there we've also included videos of the different iterations of Fleetwood throughout the decades including the initial blues era fronted by Peter Green in a clip from 1969 from the BBC show Monster Mash. Also, we have an amazing performance from 1976 of their hit �Rhiannon� on the NBC show big night special which ran for several years in the US and featured popular rock bands of the day performing their hits. We've also included clips of the reuniting of the band in 1992 10 years after they last toured. They are actually performing the Bill Clinton campaign song �Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow� with Bill and oddly Michael Jackson. We hope you enjoyed our show today. Special thanks to our guest Mark Blake, author of �Dreams the A to Z of Fleetwood Mac� and our producer Reese Waters. You've been listening to Garage to Stadiums another Blast Furnace Labs production. I'm Dave Anthony. See you next time for another Garage to Stadiums story. Unknown Speaker 44:41 This has been a Podstarter production.