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Redefining Retirement: How Joanne Clark Broke Stereotypes To Become A Thriving Entrepreneur · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:05
  I couldn't have found things to be more the opposite.
• 0:08
  And I struggled greatly with retirement.
• 0:13
  Today's guest is Joanne Clark, who spent over 30 years climbing the ranks in corporate advertising and marketing, leading major campaigns with some of the world's top companies.
• 0:25
  But just when most people would have hung up their hats and leaned into retirement, Joanne did the unthinkable.
• 0:31
  She embraced a whole new chapter as an entrepreneur, founding her own content agency, exquisitely bored, and authoring a book that's challenging Everything we think We Know about retirement.
• 0:43
  In this episode, Joanne shares her honest journey from retiring and feeling totally unfulfilled to rediscovering her passion, building a thriving business and finding new meaning.
• 0:55
  After leaving the corporate world, we'll dive into the ups and downs and the myths around retirement, how to tap into your hidden talents, and the surprising ripple effects that her book and speaking career have had on her life.
• 1:09
  Whether you're nearing retirement at a career crossroads or just looking for inspiration, you'll want to stick around for this conversation.
• 1:17
  As always, if you found value from this content, please like and subscribe.
• 1:22
  All right, Joanne Clark, welcome to Beyond Fulfillment.
• 1:27
  Thank you, Dave.
• 1:28
  It's great to be here.
• 1:29
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:31
  Absolutely.
• 1:31
  We're excited you could take the time to be here.
• 1:34
  So, Joanne, you are a relatively new entrepreneur, even though you retired after a long corporate career and just, just recently started this business and wrote this amazing book and you have a book tour coming up.
• 1:51
  We're going to get into all that.
• 1:53
  But you, you work corporate for 30 plus years in advertising, marketing for some very big companies.
• 2:01
  And then you hit what so many people aspire to do is retirement.
• 2:07
  And then through that process, you ultimately ended up discovering other things you're passionate about and became entrepreneur, an entrepreneur.
• 2:17
  But can you just kind of recap all that for our audience and talk about that, that part of your journey?
• 2:23
  Sure.
• 2:24
  Thank you for the introduction.
• 2:27
  So at the end of 2019, my husband and I retired and we had worked very hard, as most people do over the years, to make that dream happen.
• 2:38
  And I think what happens with people is, you know, along with what you're doing over here with your career and your daily routine and structured life, you work really hard at some setting those goals for retirement and making
• 2:52
  that happen.
• 2:53
  So it's very exciting when it, when it does.
• 2:56
  And I think, you know, you have it built up in your mind to arrive at this goal and how wonderful everything's going to be.
• 3:04
  And I couldn't have found things to be more the opposite.
• 3:10
  And I struggled greatly with retirement, let.
• 3:16
  Me tell you what actually happens with the knowledge that runs your business.
• 3:21
  Someone spends a week writing an sop.
• 3:23
  It goes in a binder, the binder goes on a shelf.
• 3:27
  And when a new hire has a question, they find the person who knows and they ask them.
• 3:32
  That's tribal knowledge.
• 3:34
  It's valuable.
• 3:35
  And it walks out the door every time someone leaves.
• 3:38
  With Quickly Doc, you just film your experts doing the job.
• 3:42
  It takes five minutes.
• 3:44
  QuicklyDoc turns that into a professional searchable documentation and that your team can pull up right from their phone.
• 3:52
  So when someone searches how do I reset the controller?
• 3:56
  There's the answer straight from the person who actually knows.
• 4:00
  Film it once, reference it forever.
• 4:03
  Go to QuicklyDoc.com beyond for your free pilot and stop losing what your best people know.
• 4:11
  And upon observing the what I call in my book, the Wild Wide World of Retirement, I quickly observed things that just really, I think, caused me to have a lot of, you know, inward conversations with myself and to
• 4:35
  have an open heart about the fact that I was.
• 4:38
  I became greatly disappointed.
• 4:40
  It wasn't what I thought it would be, and that was a very humbling experience.
• 4:47
  And I talk in the book about an open heart and an open mind because that's what it took for me to understand that things just weren't feeling that this was right for me.
• 4:58
  So I thought about what skills and talents do I have that I have learned and honed over those many decades of being in corporate and what am I really passionate about?
• 5:11
  So I took my marketing and PR experience and I and my business strategy experience, and I matched that with something I'm really passionate about, which is interior design and architecture and lifestyle.
• 5:28
  So I started a company called Exquisitely Bored, where I offer content to interior designers, lifestyle brands, products and services, this kind of thing.
• 5:41
  And I quickly learned that, you know, to be a Swiss army knife of skills was going to be what a lot of my clients were needing and looking for.
• 5:54
  And it quickly morphed into more than just that structured company description, which I was completely fine with and actually very excited about, because I think, you know, after decades of working, we all have way more skills and talents
• 6:11
  than we even realize.
• 6:13
  And it's fun to get to explore those with clients that are recognizing what you bring to the table in that aspect.
• 6:22
  So this was also an interesting journey for me in that I had never really thought of myself as an entrepreneur.
• 6:29
  So working in corporate, I'd always had access to teams and resources and all sorts of structured support.
• 6:38
  Right.
• 6:38
  Especially working on big pieces of Global business.
• 6:43
  And so this, this new world of entrepreneurship was interesting in that I had to figure out what is my value offering, what do I charge for my services?
• 6:55
  For example, how much time does it take me to produce the content and the products I'm offering my clients.
• 7:05
  And I found that really interesting.
• 7:07
  That took about a year and a half to two years in to really understand how to best serve myself and to grow my business accordingly.
• 7:17
  And also it was interesting when I speak of that Swiss army knife of having to be all of those skills and talents under one roof and being one person was where is my time better spent.
• 7:33
  So I was quickly learning the things that were, I might have enjoyed doing them, but they were just sort of stretching me too thin and instead I could be over here producing, you know, a larger product or service
• 7:49
  quicker and more efficiently.
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  And as an entrepreneur, we all know that's really important to recognize how to strategically position your business and your value proposition.
• 8:01
  So that was one of my, I would say biggest challenges.
• 8:07
  And I think one of the most exciting learnings was the potential, the income earning potential.
• 8:15
  Because I think when we retire we have a different impression of what that means and it was exciting to receive value financially too for all of these things that I could offer my clients.
• 8:32
  And I quickly learned how to structure my product offering around that.
• 8:40
  And this is sort of where the book came from then was to inspire other retirees about.
• 8:47
  I feel like I'm just getting started and I think there's a whole world of people out there that are, have an open ear for this message and this inspiration that just because we're retired doesn't mean that our income
• 9:04
  earning power necessarily goes away.
• 9:08
  Okay, yeah, so much to unpack there and we'll get into the journey and kind of what was that?
• 9:12
  That was like in the book and all that.
• 9:14
  But I just want to go back.
• 9:15
  So you have this long corporate career and so often we see with like the bigger companies and people work there.
• 9:21
  Right.
• 9:22
  It's kind promoted, it's aspired to as retirement, it's celebrated.
• 9:27
  When people retire there's a big party and like a little send off and all that sort of stuff.
• 9:33
  So you mentioned you quickly were disappointed with that.
• 9:37
  Can you just talk about the experience and kind of what you were feeling and, and what you, what you thought it was going to be versus what it was.
• 9:46
  So I write my, my book is.
• 9:48
  Chapters are divided up into the phases I went through.
• 9:51
  And even though they might be longer or shorter or maybe even in a different order for others, I think they're fairly relatable for most people who have experienced retirement.
• 10:04
  And the first phase, I called the vacation phase.
• 10:08
  So the first year is absolutely wonderful.
• 10:11
  Like it's, it's, you've reached the freedom intersection.
• 10:14
  It's, you know, it's basically like being on a permanent or a longer vacation.
• 10:21
  And then I think when the dust settles and you start to recognize, I think one of the things I missed the most was the routine.
• 10:30
  So the structure of your work world and everyday life and as your week unfolds, provides you with that structure.
• 10:40
  And whether that is, you know, the time that you spend getting to and from work and your work day in between and all of your other regular life activities that you build around that, that lack of routine was
• 10:57
  very something that I wasn't coping with well.
• 11:01
  And I think the segregation from your peers suddenly as well.
• 11:07
  So now you're introduced to this whole other world.
• 11:10
  And we know that today in our modern world there are of all ages retired or semi retired in some form of work flexibility especially a lot of us can work remote.
• 11:25
  And again, that's what prompted me putting this message out into the world too was we are living longer, we're living younger, and we're living different lifestyles now.
• 11:37
  So this possibility of finding income, earning power in retirement and finding new things to do is something that a lot of retirees are tapping into.
• 11:49
  So the different phases in the book cover, you know, my experience and the darkest time, I called the shift in the book chapter 10 because I think I was really at the bottom of, you know, the most unfulfilled
• 12:07
  I have ever felt.
• 12:09
  Because there's a loss of identity happening too when you retire.
• 12:13
  So you've always sort of related to your job title and that's something that you talk about with constantly when you meet people.
• 12:22
  It's how you introduce yourself.
• 12:24
  It's everything is tied up in your work identity about what you do and this personal brand that you are introducing to the world.
• 12:34
  And it's, you know, depending what your career was, it can be all consuming as well.
• 12:40
  We're in a very always on connected world.
• 12:44
  So this notion of who I am, who am I?
• 12:47
  You know, do I have the same capabilities?
• 12:52
  There must be something that I can do to find, to make things a little more structured and find routines.
• 12:59
  So slowly over time I began to, you know, build that routine and think about, you know, is there something I can start here?
• 13:08
  Is there a brand I can build?
• 13:09
  Is there something that I can offer to start something on my own where I still have Flexibility, but at the same time, I can, you know, find some fulfillment in my retirement.
• 13:25
  Okay.
• 13:26
  All right.
• 13:26
  So then you detailed how you started exquisitely bored and you looked at kind of your, your skill set that you brought from corporate.
• 13:35
  And, you know, that's another thing, too, that we just talked about off camera.
• 13:38
  I'd love if you can go into more detail, too, about that where you say, you know, people oftentimes to retirement is a scene at like the end, and then it's all downhill and your best earning days are over.
• 13:51
  And, you know, you hear so many people are fixed incomes, right.
• 13:55
  And you're not supposed, you're supposed to slow down.
• 13:59
  Right.
• 13:59
  And, you know, you had a very different point of view where, like, you've, you've accumulated all these skills through working for so many years and all this life experience that can be transitioned to providing value just in a
• 14:12
  different way or on a different platform.
• 14:14
  I mean, can you just talk more about that and how you, how you found that to be, especially as you, you started this company?
• 14:22
  So I love your reference to fixed income because I use in the book the term fixed income potentially leads to fixed thinking.
• 14:33
  And I think that because retirement is based on an age, we adopt that rather easily, that notion of fixed income, fixed thinking, and we get a bit stuck with that, that antiquated social construct that is retirement.
• 14:53
  And it's interesting because I, you know, when I looked at my marketing background and the skills I developed there and then, you know, thought about, you know, I'm doing this for different reasons now.
• 15:07
  So I want to do, I want to, you know, attach these skills to something that I'm really interested in and that I'm passionate about because, you know, I think that makes you see work in a whole different way.
• 15:26
  And I do reference in the book, and I appreciate that a lot of people don't necessarily have the opportunity to work in something they're passionate about.
• 15:37
  We have to live in a very practical world economically where people are raising families, putting food on the table, gas in the car, and we don't always have that luxury of working in something even that we necessarily enjoy.
• 15:55
  That's the reality for a lot of people.
• 15:58
  And I think reaching this stage in our lives or thinking earlier on in our career about what we want to segue that into might even help get us there sooner and help us build some flexibility around our career
• 16:18
  and our job roles that can take us into that next term.
• 16:22
  So I think it's the piece that's missing with the financial planning.
• 16:25
  Right.
• 16:27
  But when I was starting the company, I had to think about how I was going to also tap into some of the learning I had to do to build on my current skills.
• 16:42
  So just because we have skills or talent in something doesn't mean that we're really necessarily good at it.
• 16:50
  Talent might need to be tapped into further.
• 16:53
  And what I'm loving right now about what we're seeing out in the world is all of this coaching.
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  All these coaching resources are in abundance around us, and.
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  And whether it's someone to help you with a resume or someone to help you with business strategy or, you know, another entrepreneur that you can just connect with to learn and to bounce ideas off of, we are in
• 17:22
  a time of resources as far as coaching goes.
• 17:27
  And I think that, you know, I'm encouraging people to tap into that.
• 17:31
  If there are things you don't know or don't understand and you want to start a business and you think you're, you know, you have an entrepreneurial idea that there are a lot of resources around us that are there
• 17:44
  to help walk us through some of the areas we might not have strengths in.
• 17:50
  Okay.
• 17:51
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:52
  And as you know, you're doing a lot of podcasts.
• 17:55
  Podcasting is such a great resource as well, just to learn from other people and to.
• 18:00
  To kind of tap into their ideas and their journey.
• 18:04
  So you build the company, right?
• 18:07
  You get started, you figure out your marketing, you.
• 18:11
  You get clients, you kind of transition and you have to be pivot into more.
• 18:16
  And I know you mentioned the one bigger client has you in a fractional CMO role now as well.
• 18:21
  So you're learning different value that you can offer to the marketplace.
• 18:25
  And then let's talk about the book, because you wrote the book kind of detailing this journey and kind of where you're at.
• 18:32
  And now, like you mentioned, you're appearing at numerous Barnes and Noble in the coming.
• 18:38
  Is it this coming month?
• 18:41
  Yeah.
• 18:41
  Over the next couple months, I'll be doing four Barnes and Noble locations for book signings.
• 18:49
  I've also been doing, you know, fireside chats at libraries.
• 18:55
  And this is interesting because it's opening up this whole world of space speaking now that I never, like, I completely shied away from at the start of the book launch.
• 19:06
  It wasn't something that I could.
• 19:08
  That I was even interested in.
• 19:10
  And now I'm loving opportunities to do keynote speaking engagements, this kind of thing.
• 19:18
  And it's very interesting, right, what things evolve into and where you start to find fulfillment and what you can tap into.
• 19:28
  And so I'm really enjoying that.
• 19:32
  That journey and that discovery.
• 19:35
  And at the same time, I'm realizing what this has done for my business.
• 19:40
  Okay.
• 19:41
  So it's.
• 19:42
  It's created thought leadership for me.
• 19:45
  It's given me a platform to prove even more so the writing ability, the content creation, it's definitely diversified my business, and it's added, like, another product almost under that exquisitely bored brand.
• 20:06
  So that has me thinking about how this can help me launch more products and services to do with my business that I never, you know, saw coming.
• 20:18
  So it's funny, because most people are writing a book that they then go speak on, and they use that book because it's their business.
• 20:28
  It's connected to what they do as a business.
• 20:30
  And mine's a little bit unorthodox in the sense that my business is separate.
• 20:38
  The book doesn't talk about what I'm doing for business.
• 20:41
  It was just born out of the experience with retirement.
• 20:45
  So what I'm finding really interesting is how I can now connect those two things.
• 20:51
  And it's surprising how a book then can become a business unto itself.
• 20:59
  And the marketing background definitely helps with the promotion of that.
• 21:05
  But it's just very interesting how I've sort of landed now with all this other potential attached to the book.
• 21:14
  And I think there's, you know, also a lot of people that have great ideas for books and writing, and that's a whole other.
• 21:24
  Now that, you know, if they are retired and they have more time and there's something that they have worked in or are interested in to research that writing a book is another great way to, you know, to sort
• 21:40
  of capture what some of those life experiences have been for somebody as well.
• 21:46
  And books are making a big comeback.
• 21:48
  So bookstores, smaller bookstores, you're seeing them pop up more.
• 21:53
  You're seeing, like, the business of book clubs is growing.
• 21:59
  It's becoming huge.
• 22:02
  People are finding social reprieve and connection in book clubbing.
• 22:09
  And in that design world that I'm now very connected to, libraries are making a big comeback.
• 22:15
  The home library and this idea of actually reading a real book and trading books is a big piece of what's connecting people and friends in our.
• 22:30
  In our communities and the world beyond.
• 22:33
  So bookstores are seeing a.
• 22:37
  Are seeing rejuvenation.
• 22:39
  And it's amazing to see the business of bookstores and what's, you know, there's coffee shops inside, there's places to work.
• 22:48
  And so I'm really encouraged by that whole world of where business and brand and books are now intersecting at.
• 22:59
  Okay, and let's just talk about the book as well, because so many people and very successful entrepreneurs, even through their, their early careers, either aspire to write a book.
• 23:11
  They know they have that on their bucket list.
• 23:13
  And sometimes they get it done, sometimes they don't, or maybe the book doesn't go anywhere.
• 23:18
  So you wrote this book kind of in, in retirement, you know, as after starting your business, detailing your journey.
• 23:26
  And it's like you say you're on a book tour now and you.
• 23:30
  It's opened up speaking opportunities and as you mentioned earlier, it's getting a lot of fanfare from even the younger generation.
• 23:39
  The fact that you're challenging this, this social norm of what retirement really is.
• 23:45
  I mean, can you just talk about what, you know, how you went about that and how you're able to do that and you know, do generate this type of success for the book, given the way it came about.
• 23:57
  So, yeah, that finishing the book.
• 24:00
  So that is something that carved out time every day.
• 24:05
  And most publishers are really good.
• 24:08
  They offer such an unreal author community.
• 24:12
  I mean, if you are, if anybody listening is at all interested in writing a book, the author community that comes with this experience is absolutely fantastic.
• 24:25
  I can't say enough about it.
• 24:27
  The people you meet, there's just books on everything, all sorts of interesting topics and people that out there that have done amazing things or people that have just, you know, they have a message to give to the world.
• 24:41
  And the author community is really helpful because generally then you have structure around times that you can book during the week to do your writing and you can all come back together again in an organized fashion and discuss
• 25:00
  your progress.
• 25:02
  I carved out time every day and I just went with the old adage.
• 25:06
  I said I gotta write a thousand words a day.
• 25:10
  And sometimes it would be, I would wake up and read those thousand words I wrote the night before and it would be.
• 25:18
  Require a lot of change and editing.
• 25:21
  Other times I read those thousand words and was like, wow, I don't know how I did that after I had that very busy day, but that, that sounds exactly what I wanted to say.
• 25:32
  And before you know it, you know, you have 20,000 words, 30,000 words.
• 25:37
  My book is 55,000 words.
• 25:40
  And you know, if you just have those small milestones and increments of moving that ball down the field and it's really amazing how that shapes up over days and months and the focus that you, you know, you'll reach
• 25:57
  a point where you've gone to the so far that there won't be any turning back and the inspiration of being around those other authors and such as.
• 26:08
  Well, and one thing that I, that I did that I do recommend, this is kind of something that I've held true for lots of things in my life is I didn't talk about it to anybody because I think
• 26:23
  your own energy and your own thought process and your method is quite personal.
• 26:33
  And I found that keeping that private was something that allowed me to be successful in the end.
• 26:42
  And I think that other people's energy up in your thing and the constantly asking how it's going, I'm not sure that that's, you know, some people would argue they need the accountability of that.
• 26:56
  But I think that when you turn inward and you have these big things that you're trying to tackle, that those are, you know, that can be held close as your own private progression.
• 27:10
  And that really worked for me because I was then accountable just to myself.
• 27:15
  And at the very end, it's kind of fun to unveil that.
• 27:20
  But I know not everybody works that way, but I do think that that can help you keep that positive energy in your trajectory, in your own personal.
• 27:34
  In your own personal space.
• 27:36
  Yeah, that's interesting because I, I've heard both sides of that distinction.
• 27:40
  Some people say tell everybody and that it makes.
• 27:43
  It forces you to be accountable.
• 27:44
  And then other people say don't tell anybody because, you know, same thing.
• 27:48
  You don't need, you know, that type of energy kind of interrupting your process.
• 27:53
  So I guess like you said, it's personal decision on what works best for you.
• 27:57
  But.
• 27:57
  So you didn't tell anybody till the book was done and then you, so you base.
• 28:02
  Did you find a publisher once you had the book written?
• 28:05
  Is that how you did it?
• 28:07
  I found the publisher through another friend who had wrote a book.
• 28:12
  And that's what was interesting.
• 28:13
  Her and I both came from the same corporate background and we had lost touch with one another.
• 28:20
  She was, her story is very interesting because she was very in the data science world of things.
• 28:27
  And we had worked actually at a startup together and then we lost touch and we came back together again and connected through being fellow authors and in the same author cohort with the publisher.
• 28:42
  So I, I found the publisher after I had framed the chapters out and then I signed the book contract.
• 28:52
  And I think that really puts the bee in your bonnet because you've got a deadline that you make with the publisher for when you're going to hand that manuscript in.
• 29:02
  So now you've got an accountability to, you know, another entity that you don't want to let down.
• 29:11
  And that was also encouraging for me as well to stay on track.
• 29:17
  And then having that author community as well kept me accountable.
• 29:22
  So there are ways to, you know, still keep it personal and to have that personal journey, so to speak.
• 29:32
  But at the same time, you know, I do recommend the publisher partnership avenue because I do think that that gives you more resources that you can tap into as well.
• 29:47
  If you're sort of hitting a wall with things and there's other writers within that, that that can help.
• 29:54
  So that's what's nice about having that type of publisher relationship.
• 30:01
  Okay.
• 30:02
  All right.
• 30:02
  And throughout this whole process, right, we're reaching that pinnacle of retirement, realizing it wasn't what you thought it would be, going through those dark places, becoming an entrepreneur and taking action on these, these new aspirations you had.
• 30:17
  And then writing the book and getting it published and now all the other opportunities, it's open up for you throughout everything.
• 30:24
  What's the best part of it all for you?
• 30:28
  The best part is just working in something I'm extremely passionate about and taking this world of design and architecture and lifestyle brands and products and just fills me up every day that I'm in wonder that I get to
• 30:51
  write about and create content about something that I'm so driven and passionate about and to have that opportunity.
• 31:01
  And in my background, of course, there were different accounts, whether it was when I was ad agency side or client side, that, you know, that were interesting.
• 31:12
  I worked in the luxury travel category for a bit, which was wonderful exposure to a very old respected luxury travel brand and really enjoyed that as well.
• 31:31
  But when it's your own thing too, and you're creating a business around something that you are so focused and passionate about, it's amazing because, you know, as an entrepreneur, you, it's very easy to decide what projects and what
• 31:53
  work is worth it or not.
• 31:56
  Like there's a whole thing.
• 31:57
  It's just very heart led, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
• 32:02
  And nothing could have prepared me for that.
• 32:05
  And it's not always perfect.
• 32:08
  But the other opportunity I saw as well was I created another sort of smaller tributary to what I was offering, and it's called Winning words.
• 32:21
  And I saw an opportunity where a lot of these corporations and businesses don't have time to enter awards.
• 32:29
  So whether you want one of your employees to win an award or you want your brand to win an award for something, this is a resource within a company or organization that is not always readily available to take
• 32:42
  someone off a project and to focus on what is you know, entering an award, these things are very difficult to.
• 32:51
  These stories are, you know, you've got to have data to tell the story and to support why you should be, you know, the one to win this award or your business.
• 33:01
  And I saw a big opportunity there, and that's led to, for me is telling a brand story or a person's story and creating, you know, the data to back that up and to really communicate that to the world
• 33:22
  is something I'm really enjoying as well.
• 33:25
  So I found another niche within that I'm offering my clients.
• 33:30
  So, for example, the design firm, you know, we're winning some design excellence awards for commercial design projects.
• 33:40
  One of my clients last year won the King Charles Coronation Medal.
• 33:48
  That's a Canadian award that's given to people who are recognized for giving back to their community and making a better community for Canada and their country as a whole.
• 34:02
  There are many equivalent awards in.
• 34:05
  In the US as well, that I'm working on a few of those for clients.
• 34:10
  And this ability to tell other people's stories and elevate them to gain recognition is also something that I'm really enjoying and becoming quite passionate about because people have done some amazing things and they deserve recognition for that.
• 34:29
  So using my gift of words and being able to create a story and tell that for those individuals and those brands is.
• 34:39
  Is actually proving to be quite rewarding as well.
• 34:43
  Okay, love that.
• 34:45
  All right.
• 34:45
  And Joanne, if people want to find out more about you where, you know, they want to read your book or hear more about what your company does, what's the best way people can find you online?
• 34:56
  So the book is on Amazon, it's on Barnes and Noble and other major bookseller platforms.
• 35:04
  It's also available.
• 35:06
  So it's exquisitely bored.com is my website, and I have a fantastic social media handle that's also called Exquisitely Bored.
• 35:18
  And on there, you will see all the wonderful visual things that inspire me in the design world.
• 35:26
  You'll get to read and see wonderful spreads of work that my talented clients do.
• 35:34
  And it's just a really visually engaging way to keep up with me.
• 35:41
  And so the book is on Amazon.com and CA as well as Indigo and other booksellers.
• 35:49
  So I appreciate all the support and anybody can reach out with any questions.
• 35:55
  I'm really open to having conversations and connecting with other people who have experienced some of the same things I have.
• 36:06
  Okay.
• 36:07
  All right.
• 36:07
  And we will link all that in the show notes for everyone as well.
• 36:10
  Well, Joanne, thank you so much for taking the time to be here and sharing all this valuable wisdom from your journey with our listeners.
• 36:16
  We greatly appreciate it and thank you.
• 36:19
  Dave, for having me.