Latest / Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson / Choosing Life: Farming, Disability & Healing Through Nature – Henrich Berkhoff | EP 39

Transcript

Choosing Life: Farming, Disability & Healing Through Nature – Henrich Berkhoff | EP 39 · Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

• 0:00
  Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.
• 0:01
  Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.
• 0:03
  I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times bestselling author of
• 0:06
  The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.
• 0:08
  Before I jump in with today's guest, I want to say a huge thank you to you, our
• 0:13
  audience, for helping to make this happen.
• 0:15
  I have a request.
• 0:16
  If you like what we do here, please give it a thumbs up,
• 0:19
  like, subscribe, tell a friend.
• 0:22
  It really, really helps us to make the pro.
• 0:24
  To find out about our certification courses, online video libraries,
• 0:29
  books, and other courses, please go to rupertisaacson.com.
• 0:34
  So now let's jump in.
• 0:39
  Today again, I have a great hero of mine, Henrich Berkhoff from near
• 0:43
  Munster in Germany, who has and still leads an extraordinary life,
• 0:49
  both as a special needs father, as a politician, as a protector of
• 0:55
  children's rights on the political level and on the practical level.
• 0:59
  And as a farmer, the first organic farmer in his neighborhood.
• 1:03
  And the person who was brought movement in learning into schools in Germany.
• 1:10
  Extraordinary human being.
• 1:13
  So, he's gonna come out of the forest right now because
• 1:16
  that's where he likes to be.
• 1:18
  So, berko, would you please come outta the forest?
• 1:40
  Hey welcome to the show, Henrich.
• 1:43
  Yeah, this looks an unusual place for a a podcast interview to happen.
• 1:49
  You appear to be outside in the forest.
• 1:52
  Why is that?
• 1:53
  Yeah, that is
• 1:55
  Henrich Berkhoff: easy.
• 1:55
  The the nature and the forest is a big part of the nature.
• 1:59
  It's a quite nice place to be.
• 2:02
  Yeah,
• 2:03
  Rupert Isaacson: indeed.
• 2:05
  Why is the forest a nice place to be?
• 2:09
  Henrich Berkhoff: The simple answer is we are gathering and
• 2:15
  hunting humans, and that means.
• 2:20
  For everybody.
• 2:21
  But for me it is, we are so similar with the nature, but
• 2:28
  we forgot all these things.
• 2:31
  And now we have the ation, globalization, and the digital
• 2:37
  world that is not so good to us.
• 2:45
  And if we honestly hearing what is the best place to be, we always
• 2:55
  choose the nature at the beach, in the mountains or in the green.
• 3:02
  And that is true easy.
• 3:04
  If you feel if you're following, following your feeling, you stay
• 3:10
  Rupert Isaacson: outside.
• 3:11
  It's very true.
• 3:13
  It's very true.
• 3:14
  It's good for our brain.
• 3:15
  It's where we're supposed to be.
• 3:17
  Before we dive into the rest of the interview you mentioned that
• 3:23
  you might have a little music for us, music from the Nature.
• 3:27
  Do you want to show us what you mean?
• 3:29
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yes, please.
• 3:32
  I hope it works.
• 3:34
  Not too loud.
• 3:51
  Rupert Isaacson: So, Henrich tell us what you do, who are
• 3:54
  you and how did you get here?
• 3:57
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, thank you Ru for being here and to have this nice time with
• 4:03
  you at the podcast and yeah, who I am.
• 4:07
  Owner now with my wife from a farm here in the middle of Germany and
• 4:15
  we managed this farm and we get this farm from my parents 25 years ago.
• 4:23
  And then I worked here as a farmer, but no fully time.
• 4:31
  And I study engineering in billing, construction also.
• 4:36
  And I worked there for 15 years.
• 4:41
  And then we thinking about what is the best way, but that is a special reason.
• 4:50
  Yeah.
• 4:50
  You ask me what I am and who I am now.
• 4:54
  I am, I am a politician in this area also here.
• 5:00
  I so useful to make something happened if you know the people with the
• 5:08
  power of the, to make a decision.
• 5:11
  And I make it for mainly children.
• 5:16
  I am the chairman of the board and I'm the founder of this children
• 5:21
  Protection thing here in this area.
• 5:25
  We started in 2004, and that is yeah, a protection association for this district.
• 5:34
  And also I'm I start this new association, the new trails for Germany.
• 5:44
  That is another story we, we have to think about or talk about later.
• 5:50
  Yes.
• 5:51
  That is all I do here, and in the time it comes more and more other things.
• 6:00
  In the addition to this, if you was in this world, you are, you, you will
• 6:06
  be asked for, to help, for, to do this or to think about the next Yeah.
• 6:13
  And, and le at least I start master studies at the University of Bon.
• 6:19
  There's a special university, aos, they have a title that is
• 6:24
  very interesting, researching pedagogic social and therapeutic
• 6:29
  processes, initiating impulses.
• 6:34
  That means what is work, good work in the practice every day.
• 6:40
  To put it in the science world, and that is so cool to reframe things like this.
• 6:49
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 6:49
  So you, you basically, you, you're like me, you wear 20 different hats.
• 6:55
  You, you're a farmer.
• 6:57
  You were the first organic farmer in your area.
• 7:00
  I think that's something we'd like to talk about.
• 7:03
  You as you say, run the child protection group in your area and
• 7:07
  founded that you work in special education and general education.
• 7:12
  You work with nature and the mind with people at your farm and you
• 7:17
  also go around Germany and the world educating people on all this.
• 7:22
  And you go and speak to the scientists and the politicians because you
• 7:26
  cleverly are a politician to get decisions made for the betterment of.
• 7:34
  Let's say children's experiences in schools and the availability of nature.
• 7:39
  This is an extraordinary endeavor.
• 7:43
  Why do you do this?
• 7:45
  And how did you get here?
• 7:47
  You have a special reason that pushed you into this.
• 7:50
  Tell us about it.
• 7:52
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, there's a good question.
• 7:54
  Thank you for that.
• 7:56
  If you start at the boy in the area like this, you are especially
• 8:01
  in your, your father is a farmer.
• 8:04
  You are in this world.
• 8:06
  And, but it is a normal thing.
• 8:08
  You have it every day and it is so, nice, but you don't recognize by yourself.
• 8:15
  What a nice environment there.
• 8:18
  Okay.
• 8:18
  I grew up and then luckily, I, I met a nice woman that is my,
• 8:25
  my wife now gi, you know her.
• 8:28
  And we plan together to have a nice to nice place.
• 8:34
  We have a nice place and we plant a nice family and a nice life.
• 8:38
  Okay.
• 8:39
  But in the time of ion pre pregnancy Of my pregnancy?
• 8:46
  Yeah, pregnancy, sorry.
• 8:47
  Of my, but they, they, they, they, in the 20 weeks of the 40 weeks my
• 8:55
  wife called me and she explained me.
• 8:59
  Our baby is not healthy.
• 9:04
  It is it is in this spina bifida.
• 9:08
  Rupert Isaacson: Spina bifida.
• 9:09
  Yeah.
• 9:10
  Yeah.
• 9:10
  Henrich Berkhoff: Perhaps somebody knows that.
• 9:13
  But in this time, I have no idea what this is.
• 9:17
  We have a special word in German for this.
• 9:20
  Okay.
• 9:20
  I.
• 9:21
  Remember that word?
• 9:23
  And it was not nice, really, that you, if you are thinking of your
• 9:28
  food future of your life, you are thinking, okay, this can be happening.
• 9:32
  This can be happening, but this and this.
• 9:34
  Please know.
• 9:36
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 9:37
  And nobody wants to be a special needs parent.
• 9:40
  Henrich Berkhoff: Nobody.
• 9:41
  Nobody really.
• 9:42
  And, but this comes and it, we have a situation here in Germany.
• 9:49
  We have the rights to kill the baby at this time.
• 9:58
  Rupert Isaacson: A, a late abortion.
• 9:59
  Effectively.
• 10:00
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 10:01
  And
• 10:02
  Rupert Isaacson: or to carry the baby, to kill the baby in the womb,
• 10:05
  and then carry the baby to the end.
• 10:07
  No, in the,
• 10:07
  Henrich Berkhoff: in the, in, in inside.
• 10:09
  The, and this is, every doctor said, Hey, it is your.
• 10:20
  Think about your life.
• 10:21
  Think about the life of this human.
• 10:24
  It's not so nice here.
• 10:26
  You, we have all the letters that can happen.
• 10:30
  That can, this can happen.
• 10:32
  This is not easy to handle.
• 10:33
  That is, that means so many surgeries and we cannot say if he's healthy enough to
• 10:42
  speak healthy enough to have normal life.
• 10:48
  And how many disabilities they, they give it all this shitty news.
• 10:55
  Rupert Isaacson: Right?
• 10:55
  Because it wasn't just spina bifida, was it?
• 10:57
  It was also hydrocephalus.
• 10:59
  Yeah.
• 10:59
  Henrich Berkhoff: Water on the brain.
• 11:00
  Most, if you have this thing, mostly you have this hydrocephalus thing, and
• 11:08
  that means your brain is under pressure.
• 11:10
  Yeah, good things.
• 11:13
  We have now this medicine, they can do something and that
• 11:18
  is another podcast perhaps.
• 11:20
  But first we have the information from the doctors, from the maybe society
• 11:27
  say that, hey, that is not a good way.
• 11:31
  Please choose the easy way, whatever that means.
• 11:36
  What is the easy way?
• 11:37
  Yeah.
• 11:38
  Easy way is you have a house, you have a nice life, you have a nice woman.
• 11:42
  And, and, and, and, but now we are asking directly and we have
• 11:48
  to choose this way, the easy way.
• 11:54
  I don't know.
• 11:55
  We choose the other way.
• 11:58
  And at it was a hard way.
• 12:01
  Yes, of course.
• 12:03
  It was not easy.
• 12:04
  Julian, our oldest from the three boys.
• 12:08
  Born is in 2002 and the first two years, maybe little breaks, but he lives in the
• 12:19
  university clinic in nearby in this in Minster and my wife the first two years.
• 12:27
  Yeah.
• 12:27
  We have little breaks.
• 12:28
  Wow.
• 12:30
  We have little breaks with surgery
• 12:31
  Rupert Isaacson: after surgery.
• 12:32
  After surgery.
• 12:33
  Yeah.
• 12:33
  Yeah.
• 12:34
  Henrich Berkhoff: 13 surgeries in this time.
• 12:37
  Geez.
• 12:37
  13.
• 12:38
  Some, some human, some people have no one surgery in, in their whole life.
• 12:43
  He is a little, little tiny baby, and he wants to live.
• 12:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:49
  He show us, Hey, I'm here.
• 12:54
  Please give me a chance to discover the world.
• 13:03
  That happened.
• 13:04
  He's a strong boy.
• 13:05
  He's fighting and there was many crisis.
• 13:09
  It was not, not easy gi,
• 13:13
  Rupert Isaacson: I can only imagine.
• 13:14
  Yeah,
• 13:15
  Henrich Berkhoff: yeah.
• 13:15
  Git was most time there.
• 13:18
  She lives nearby in the special rooms for parents.
• 13:22
  And yeah, this was a hard time.
• 13:26
  But you, what I'm wondering, and I never know it before, is what powerful
• 13:35
  thing inside the parents to fight for this baby in the moment the baby
• 13:42
  is on, on the world, you can see and you can hold the baby this moment.
• 13:48
  You are the powerful person ever.
• 13:51
  And you cannot imagine it before.
• 13:55
  You have no chance.
• 13:56
  But then you are.
• 13:59
  Able to do everything for your baby.
• 14:03
  And that happened.
• 14:04
  You are in the process.
• 14:06
  And today I have sometimes the photos from this time, this
• 14:12
  little human baby lie in the bed.
• 14:17
  Was this, what is heating and all the instruments, all the cables and what
• 14:23
  everything you cannot, you on the picture is more technique than human things.
• 14:30
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 14:30
  Yeah.
• 14:31
  Henrich Berkhoff: If I saw a picture to Dave from this time that is
• 14:37
  I'm say, look what happened there.
• 14:40
  But in this you can handle it.
• 14:42
  You can give a chance to a human life and that is what we have to do.
• 14:49
  That is not our decision to do in it is in my opinion.
• 14:54
  Or may we, it is not.
• 14:57
  To say, oh, this is a good life, or That is not a good life.
• 15:01
  Julian choose his way.
• 15:03
  And he did it wonderful, but not easy.
• 15:09
  Yeah.
• 15:09
  It is so many crisis, so many things until today it's not easy.
• 15:19
  But hey, what, what is important in your life?
• 15:23
  And if you never go down, you have no idea how nice it is on the top of the hill.
• 15:34
  Yeah.
• 15:34
  And that is what we have to learn the most dreaming from everybody is you have
• 15:44
  a street straight, nice and easy to go.
• 15:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:51
  And hey, what is.
• 15:55
  The best learning in the world.
• 15:57
  It's not happened on this road.
• 16:00
  It is if you go upsides in the ditches or whatever, and you have to fight
• 16:08
  and you have to climb out of this situation, that is a learning process.
• 16:13
  And that is where we created as a human.
• 16:17
  That is what we are talk about later, and that is the gr the ground of
• 16:26
  the next decisions you are ask for.
• 16:31
  And that is why we are today at this this farm.
• 16:36
  And that is a re a reason of how we do this work now.
• 16:42
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, no, I mean, your, your story is obviously.
• 16:47
  Somewhat similar to mine but with my autistic son.
• 16:52
  And that forced me to change the direction with my life, with my career.
• 16:58
  And now that is what I do.
• 17:00
  But there's a big difference in your experience, which is that my son
• 17:05
  never had the medical, physical, medical complications that your
• 17:11
  son has, has had, and still has.
• 17:16
  And this takes even more strength and will to.
• 17:23
  Handle because you are dealing with a very direct existential
• 17:28
  threat to your own child.
• 17:31
  Your child could die in those early phases.
• 17:35
  And then with every surgery, and I've known you since 2017, and even
• 17:42
  in that time I have known Julian going through these surgeries.
• 17:47
  Some quite big ones.
• 17:48
  And each time there is this question, will the person survive?
• 17:53
  Will the surgery be successful?
• 17:56
  And to deal with this kind of anxiety while still building,
• 18:03
  working, and doing all the things that you do, this takes a special.
• 18:13
  Personality, both.
• 18:15
  I know Giddy your wife very well.
• 18:17
  Obviously she's also a colleague of mine.
• 18:19
  And for those listeners to my other podcast, equine Assisted
• 18:23
  World, please go and listen to Giddy KO's podcast there because
• 18:28
  she's an extraordinary human being.
• 18:30
  She of course had a background as a nurse and not just as a hospital nurse, but
• 18:37
  also a nurse dealing with dementia and psychological neuropsychological issues.
• 18:45
  So it's very interesting.
• 18:48
  People say you get given the challenge that you can handle by life annoyingly.
• 18:54
  So your wife is there.
• 18:56
  She already has this medical knowledge.
• 18:58
  She already has this neuro.
• 18:59
  Psychological knowledge and your son is born both with a physical condition
• 19:05
  and with pressure on the brain.
• 19:09
  Someone might look from the outside and say, well great,
• 19:14
  but it's not quite so easy.
• 19:16
  Yeah.
• 19:16
  And then, and then there's you coming in and what do you think made you say,
• 19:25
  when the doctors effectively said, Berko, I think you should terminate
• 19:31
  your child's life before he's born.
• 19:35
  And I'm sure they made a very strong case for this.
• 19:40
  What made you look at the next 50 years and say, ah, if, fuck it.
• 19:45
  Sure it'll be grand and do it.
• 19:49
  Talk to us about this.
• 19:50
  It's intriguing.
• 19:51
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, you are right for me was.
• 19:57
  The answer of this question of the doctors only one way.
• 20:01
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:02
  I, my personality is, I'm always positive.
• 20:07
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 20:07
  Henrich Berkhoff: And in every situation, yeah.
• 20:11
  There may be thousand of bad situation for everybody, but you have the choice.
• 20:18
  And in, I thought about, hey, we can handle this every day.
• 20:25
  This shitty situation, there was a lot of, but we can handle it the
• 20:33
  other way means that is the end.
• 20:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:36
  And that produce so many question.
• 20:40
  Rupert Isaacson: That is true.
• 20:41
  Henrich Berkhoff: What can, in, in, in special in this, you, you
• 20:47
  in the future on this other way.
• 20:49
  You, you have the me you.
• 20:52
  Have the knowledge of other people, they are happy in the wheelchair and they
• 20:56
  make their special Olympics or whatever.
• 21:00
  Hey, on you end at the at the beginning, at the start.
• 21:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:05
  And that is not what I'm thinking in.
• 21:09
  And I say, Hey, this other way, it is not the easiest way, but we can, we, every
• 21:17
  day we have to choose what can we do?
• 21:20
  And believe me, we can do more with our power, human power that
• 21:29
  we ever, ever thinking about.
• 21:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:32
  And we, I have, and GI also, we have no idea, but we go, we we're on this
• 21:41
  way with the life and not against.
• 21:47
  Is our decision.
• 21:48
  Some parents and especially some woman's mothers are not able to do this way.
• 21:59
  Yeah, we have respect also, but this way was for GT and me the best, and we have
• 22:12
  so many meetings with other families, they are in front of the same question.
• 22:20
  We have meetings with this families.
• 22:23
  This is same question, and we say, Hey, look here, we choose this way
• 22:30
  because we can answer every day a question, whatever the question are.
• 22:36
  The other way is you cannot answer every, not answer the.
• 22:43
  One of the question you have
• 22:47
  that is the different, what is,
• 22:49
  Rupert Isaacson: what is so interesting to me is, as you say, not everybody
• 22:53
  will make the same decision.
• 22:55
  And there are people in life circumstances for whom, as you say,
• 22:59
  we must respect that they would make a different decision to you and giddy.
• 23:05
  You come from a farming background, you come from a farming family background
• 23:11
  and you have quite a large family.
• 23:14
  I know your mother very well, atti who's, you know, someone to whom we must
• 23:18
  always give our gratitude and respect.
• 23:21
  She's, you know, one of the most wonderful human beings that I know.
• 23:28
  So you were fortunate, I suppose, that you lived in.
• 23:32
  An environment where there was tribe, we could say, do you think
• 23:38
  this affected your decision?
• 23:40
  F for example, if you had been living in an apartment in the
• 23:45
  middle of the city perhaps no family or maybe as a single parent.
• 23:52
  Of course we can only speculate because this was not your circumstance, but
• 23:59
  do you think that Julian's life also owes itself to some degree, to this
• 24:08
  tribal culture that you come from?
• 24:13
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 24:15
  Well, that is a nice question.
• 24:16
  I, I talk about this meetings with other families in the same situation.
• 24:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:22
  And there was one meeting with.
• 24:26
  16 old year mother or becoming a mother.
• 24:32
  This girl is such in the end of the school time and start in the profession.
• 24:39
  And she was also pregnant and she was also the same think, concentrate.
• 24:47
  And this girl says, no, I have to go this way.
• 24:55
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
• 24:55
  Henrich Berkhoff: And you asking for, is it a tribe, a family, a social life thing?
• 25:03
  But in my perspective now, I, I thought the tribe come to this point.
• 25:13
  If you are in this situation, the the tribe come to you.
• 25:17
  Right.
• 25:18
  We, we have no idea, Hey, come, we can handle it easily with a
• 25:22
  family, with blah, blah, blah.
• 25:24
  No.
• 25:24
  That, that, that was not, and in our thinking, we, we, we are not looking to
• 25:32
  the family, to the round and what, uh mm.
• 25:36
  We, we have the, to do this decision.
• 25:38
  And in this decision you are alone.
• 25:41
  But if you go this way, we think it's a, not, not, that is
• 25:50
  obviously not the easiest way.
• 25:53
  Maybe Yeah.
• 25:54
  Is easier.
• 25:56
  Yeah.
• 25:56
  And that the tribe comes and that is how we developed this farm and
• 26:04
  how we met this wonderful person in the horse boy tribe world.
• 26:10
  And that is, comes all from this point.
• 26:16
  To make it happen, to choose the way.
• 26:22
  And in this thinking of our son Julian, he had no decision to do.
• 26:31
  He is growing up, not in the best and healthiest thing, but
• 26:37
  you want to go the way which is designed for every human being.
• 26:47
  You know,
• 26:47
  Rupert Isaacson: it's so interesting what you say.
• 26:49
  The tribe will come to you because when my son was diagnosed, I was
• 26:54
  living on a remote farm in Texas.
• 27:00
  My ex-wife and I.
• 27:02
  Had no extended family and actually relatively few friends because the
• 27:08
  friends that we had, they all lived in the nearby city, which was Austin,
• 27:12
  but not in the village out 45 minutes outside of Austin where we lived.
• 27:17
  So we really found ourselves isolated.
• 27:20
  And it's so interesting that you say the tribe will come to you
• 27:23
  because that's exactly what happened.
• 27:25
  When we began to work with my son and then somehow naturally with other
• 27:34
  children with a similar condition in the area, the tribe just arrived.
• 27:41
  And when I looked up three or four years after the diagnosis,
• 27:48
  the diagnosis was 2004.
• 27:51
  The, I was looking up in around 2000 and.
• 27:57
  Seven or so.
• 27:59
  And so there was already by then a tribe that had been created around him.
• 28:03
  It's almost as if these special children create their own tribes.
• 28:09
  They seem to bring out the best in people, and people seem to feel better
• 28:15
  and perhaps even somewhat healed when they're in the presence of special needs.
• 28:22
  Either that or they reject completely and they go the other way.
• 28:26
  So I think you're right.
• 28:27
  I, you know, but so, I mean,
• 28:31
  you're right that the tribe will come, but this is of course something very
• 28:35
  scary for people if they're facing this.
• 28:37
  Oh, yes.
• 28:38
  As an unknown.
• 28:39
  So I think hearing you say that is, is of great use.
• 28:43
  And now of course your son is doing incredibly well.
• 28:47
  Please just tell us a little bit how Julian is doing now and then,
• 28:51
  because there's, I want to ask you about where that experience
• 28:54
  with Julian has brought you.
• 28:57
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 28:58
  Rupert Isaacson: Ru how is he doing now?
• 29:00
  Henrich Berkhoff: I will answer this question, but I have a thought.
• 29:04
  The tribe comes to you and why it is this happened.
• 29:11
  If you were before you were alone, maybe you have not easy
• 29:17
  things and nothing happened.
• 29:19
  There's nothing that you nobody comes.
• 29:22
  You are foreign.
• 29:24
  Your own idea of your life in this moment, you go the most people are following their
• 29:33
  way straightly, and they are not able or not looking under this or this side, and.
• 29:44
  We were bombed out of this straight way path.
• 29:50
  And then we have to reorganize our life, our thinking, our pop, pop, pop.
• 29:58
  In this moment, the new tribe is coming up and building up.
• 30:07
  If we following the mainstream, maybe we, we have a nice life.
• 30:13
  Perfect, but we never thinking about this things right on left,
• 30:22
  on the straight, mainstream way.
• 30:25
  And if you want to feel the right life and so many people are looking and searching
• 30:32
  this, yeah, you have to go in this other.
• 30:37
  Areas in this other thinkings, and we have no chance to do.
• 30:41
  Nobody choose is by your own.
• 30:44
  But we are bombed and we are landing in this other new world and the humans
• 30:50
  can create a new life and new we, we have this brain here and we can do this.
• 30:57
  Okay.
• 30:58
  And that is what I thought if you asking me question about Julian
• 31:06
  today, and he's a young boy.
• 31:09
  He is 23 years.
• 31:13
  And he goes to the school after he first he stand one year and the
• 31:22
  special needs school, but that is too far away and that needs one hour to
• 31:28
  bring him there and one hour back.
• 31:30
  And I.
• 31:31
  We thought, Hey, two hours from a whole day from this little 7-year-old
• 31:37
  boy, it's only sitting in the car.
• 31:40
  It's not so nice.
• 31:42
  And then we ask the school here in the, in, in our village, but the, they said,
• 31:50
  oh, you are one boy in the wheelchair.
• 31:52
  Well, we are not cons.
• 31:54
  Our construction is not so, is our barriers and pop up and
• 31:59
  yeah, it's the special needs school is better for your son.
• 32:04
  And then we, we, we talk to other people with other parents, with special needs
• 32:11
  kiddos, otherwise me and, and all this.
• 32:15
  And we make five parents together and we go to the school and say,
• 32:19
  Hey, now you have five special needs students here at your school, please.
• 32:25
  Can we start here?
• 32:27
  And in Germany you can choose your cho school and then the
• 32:34
  Rupert Isaacson: that's very interesting.
• 32:35
  Yeah.
• 32:35
  Yeah.
• 32:36
  'cause in many countries that's not possible.
• 32:37
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 32:38
  Yeah.
• 32:38
  We, we, we, here in Germany, you have the choice and they have to organize this.
• 32:45
  And they said, oh, we, our thinking is with every child in the school,
• 32:53
  you have three hours a special needs teacher, and now we are five
• 32:58
  in a class of 25 up to 30 people.
• 33:01
  That means five, three hours for every child.
• 33:05
  15 hours, you have an additional teacher in your class.
• 33:10
  And that is cool.
• 33:11
  Not only cool for the special needs kiddos.
• 33:14
  Right.
• 33:14
  Every student in the class is nice.
• 33:17
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 33:18
  Henrich Berkhoff: And also with Julian, we bring a assistant
• 33:22
  because it is, it's a wheelchair.
• 33:25
  It's not so easy to handle all their stuff in the school.
• 33:28
  And then is Yeah, then we, that, that means we have up to three
• 33:32
  people, not every hour, but in the main school time, we have three
• 33:39
  people in the primary school time.
• 33:42
  And that was very cool.
• 33:43
  And it was a, so successful the school become a ordinary perfect school and
• 33:51
  other school direct direct send us teacher, Hey, have a look in this school.
• 33:57
  There is inclusion happened in the school time and is successful too.
• 34:03
  Yeah.
• 34:04
  And this is a cool.
• 34:08
  Time because it was nearby five minutes away and it is the social Yeah.
• 34:15
  Perfect.
• 34:16
  Circle from Julian.
• 34:17
  Absolutely.
• 34:18
  And that is what happened there.
• 34:20
  And it's for everybody.
• 34:22
  It's it, it was a great time.
• 34:24
  But remember, remember please not easy.
• 34:29
  The school rules are not so, perfectly fit to this disabled people and
• 34:37
  they're what they need, but hey, we can create some nice ways and we did it.
• 34:44
  Yeah.
• 34:45
  For example, there is a sport event that is every year they have to do this in, in
• 34:52
  the to jump running and throwing balls.
• 34:57
  That is the main sports there and together.
• 35:00
  And later you have your notes you have your points and yeah, that
• 35:05
  means you have this and this note.
• 35:06
  But a for the wheelchair driver, we have no idea.
• 35:11
  Then we create a new competition there, 100 meter with a wheelchair.
• 35:18
  Who is the fastest Perfect.
• 35:22
  They, Julian wins the race.
• 35:26
  He's best at the head.
• 35:28
  He had the best practice.
• 35:29
  But the other I have also fund with to do this.
• 35:35
  Yeah.
• 35:35
  Yeah.
• 35:36
  And that especially especially the kiddos, the students, they have no question.
• 35:43
  There was a newspaper man reporting, hey, how it works, and he asked the teacher,
• 35:49
  he asked the principal, and he asked.
• 35:52
  The other students.
• 35:54
  And he asked to the other students in the class of Julian, Hey, how do you feel
• 36:01
  with a disabled person in your classroom?
• 36:05
  And the kiddos don't understand this question.
• 36:10
  What do you mean disabled people who is disabled here in our class?
• 36:16
  And Julian just crossed the corner with his wheelchair and they, ROS
• 36:25
  don't understand this question.
• 36:29
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,
• 36:30
  Henrich Berkhoff: great.
• 36:30
  And then later he luckily he comes up private, organized school with
• 36:38
  the Montessori thinking and they say, yes, everybody is welcome here and.
• 36:45
  We have to look, what is your potential?
• 36:49
  What is your power?
• 36:50
  What is to have a look?
• 36:52
  What is that what you like to do?
• 36:57
  And that is in this thinking, you are the best in, in, in, you
• 37:05
  are the best in what do you like?
• 37:10
  Rupert Isaacson: What's so interesting about this is you're talking about
• 37:13
  advocacy and somewhere in your boyhood you must have learned some
• 37:22
  skills about how to advocate for yourself and for other people.
• 37:29
  Now, you have gone on with this because you've helped Julian to find a career.
• 37:34
  He's now working.
• 37:36
  It's wonderful.
• 37:36
  He's driving.
• 37:37
  It's.
• 37:38
  Phenomenal.
• 37:39
  Yeah.
• 37:39
  And you have two other sons that we haven't talked about who are a great
• 37:45
  success in, in, in, in their lives too.
• 37:48
  But in each case with this, you have learned how to advocate first for
• 37:55
  your own child and then for yourself.
• 37:57
  Now for my own story, I, I, I'm, I'm a good advocate too.
• 38:01
  So I advocated for Rowan for my son and then wanted to teach him and people
• 38:08
  like him how to advocate for themselves.
• 38:12
  But I, of course had a background in working in human
• 38:16
  rights, working in journalism.
• 38:19
  And so perhaps I had some training in this before the diagnosis happened.
• 38:26
  So it was somewhat natural for me to fall into a role of.
• 38:33
  An advocate, where does it come from with you many people in your position?
• 38:38
  For example, with the school, when the school says, oh no, sorry, I don't think
• 38:42
  so many people would say, oh, okay.
• 38:47
  I guess, I guess not.
• 38:49
  Then where did you learn how to say, Hmm, let me give you
• 38:57
  plan B and C and D and E and F.
• 39:04
  Where did this come from?
• 39:06
  As you know, if you followed any of my work, I'm an autism dad and we have
• 39:11
  a whole career before this podcast in helping people with neurodivergence,
• 39:18
  either who are professionals in the field.
• 39:21
  Are you a therapist?
• 39:22
  Are you a caregiver?
• 39:24
  Are you a parent?
• 39:25
  Or are you somebody with neurodivergence?
• 39:29
  When my son, Rowan, was diagnosed with autism in 2004,
• 39:34
  I really didn't know what to do.
• 39:35
  So I reached out for mentorship, and I found it through an amazing adult
• 39:41
  autistic woman who's very famous, Dr.
• 39:44
  Temple Grandin.
• 39:45
  And she told me what to do.
• 39:46
  And it's been working so amazingly for the last 20 years.
• 39:51
  That not only is my son basically independent, but we've helped
• 39:56
  countless, countless thousands of others reach the same goal.
• 40:00
  Working in schools, working at home, working in therapy settings.
• 40:05
  If you would like to learn this cutting edge, neuroscience backed
• 40:09
  approach, it's called Movement Method.
• 40:12
  You can learn it online, you can learn it very, very simply.
• 40:15
  It's almost laughably simple.
• 40:19
  The important thing is to begin.
• 40:22
  Let yourself be mentored as I was by Dr.
• 40:25
  Grandin and see what results can follow.
• 40:30
  Go to this website, newtrailslearning.
• 40:35
  com Sign up as a gold member.
• 40:38
  Take the online movement method course.
• 40:41
  It's in 40 countries.
• 40:43
  Let us know how it goes for you.
• 40:46
  We really want to know.
• 40:46
  We really want to help people like me, people like you, out there
• 40:51
  live their best life, to live free, ride free, see what happens.
• 40:55
  Henrich Berkhoff: A lot of comes from to be a farmer, honestly.
• 41:02
  Rupert Isaacson: I was wondering Yeah, go.
• 41:03
  Go on.
• 41:04
  Henrich Berkhoff: Because if you are working in nature with nature
• 41:09
  with animals you are searching every day for solution in your work life.
• 41:16
  And you are always thinking about, Hey,
• 41:23
  is there another way to do or to get the target?
• 41:29
  Yeah.
• 41:29
  And that is always happened.
• 41:32
  And if you in a family in a like this that every day is asking, Hey,
• 41:43
  there's a rainy day, we want to harvest the corn, what can we do?
• 41:49
  Now?
• 41:50
  You have to deliver every day solution.
• 41:54
  Bigger, smaller ones, but that is normal.
• 41:58
  Yeah.
• 41:59
  And also your responsibility for this decisions every day.
• 42:08
  There is no question who is.
• 42:11
  My my, my, my, my boss and who can I give this question away?
• 42:17
  No, you have to do this.
• 42:18
  And at, at the end of the day you can see, oh yeah, it works or it works not so good.
• 42:28
  Or we try it again tomorrow.
• 42:31
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 42:31
  Right.
• 42:32
  Henrich Berkhoff: But you have to do this.
• 42:33
  Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
• 42:34
  Henrich Berkhoff: That is think what you may be called Edward advocacy.
• 42:41
  Advocacy.
• 42:42
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 42:44
  Henrich Berkhoff: And in the relationship to Julian in his way,
• 42:48
  this inclusion that was so helpful.
• 42:52
  The UN have this disability convention.
• 42:57
  They said this sent it out in the world and Germany put
• 43:03
  it in their national rules.
• 43:06
  Laws in 2009 and Julian is born in 2002.
• 43:13
  And you'll see, hey, we are in the school and we have this paper from the
• 43:17
  un and it is also here in German laws.
• 43:22
  We can say at last, please have a look to this laws.
• 43:27
  We, we are in our thinking, we are right.
• 43:31
  But to have the right is a completely other thing to go this way.
• 43:42
  That is not easy to have the rights and no power to make it happen.
• 43:52
  And that means, oh, you have to create solution like a farmer every day.
• 43:59
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it, it's interesting.
• 44:00
  I like this analogy of.
• 44:03
  You need to harvest the corn, but it's raining and so you
• 44:07
  could lose the whole crop.
• 44:10
  Yeah.
• 44:10
  If one looks at a school or a boss or
• 44:18
  someone with a decision making power saying, I'm going to make a decision
• 44:24
  that is not in your interest or not in the interest of your child
• 44:30
  to look at it like, oh, I see it's raining and I need to get the corn.
• 44:35
  Okay, what would I do on the farm and how does that translate to this situation?
• 44:43
  And I can imagine that that would happen almost subconsciously, that
• 44:48
  you wouldn't necessarily think, okay, corn school, but it would naturally.
• 44:55
  Follow and we started this podcast in nature.
• 44:59
  You came walking outta the forest, you blew that horn.
• 45:02
  You are not just a farmer, you are also a hunter.
• 45:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 45:08
  What is hunting other than following the trail?
• 45:15
  Following the tracks and moment by moment, by moment by moment.
• 45:22
  Having to make a decision that might or might not lead to food.
• 45:30
  And that you also need to have a relationship with all of the dimensions of
• 45:37
  that animal, the animal itself, the land, the habitat, and then the conditions of
• 45:45
  the day, the weather, the, the health of the animal, how is your health as well?
• 45:51
  So it's interesting.
• 45:52
  Talk to me about hunting and how hunting and that particular type of
• 45:58
  relationship with nature helps with this sort of advocacy and problem
• 46:05
  solving career that you have.
• 46:10
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 46:11
  What is the connection to take responsibilities and to be a hunter?
• 46:20
  And that means for me,
• 46:26
  it comes as a child here always.
• 46:29
  We have hunting session at our farm.
• 46:33
  We are allowed to do this in our farm area here, but in the former
• 46:38
  days, the humans always hunter and.
• 46:44
  They are gathering and hunting and some scientists think about, hey, this
• 46:53
  hunting thing to get meat, that means to get energy easier enough and easier
• 47:04
  is then to gathering nuts and so on.
• 47:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 47:08
  And that makes that is one explanation for how to come the human brain
• 47:19
  bigger and bigger and more and more the brain is, needs some much energy.
• 47:25
  And with this hunting thing, it was easier to make, to bring the energy
• 47:33
  in the shortest time to the humans.
• 47:37
  That is interesting.
• 47:38
  And yeah, we.
• 47:41
  We are hunter and gatherer at more than 2.5
• 47:48
  million years.
• 47:50
  Yeah.
• 47:50
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 47:52
  Henrich Berkhoff: This farming thing comes up maybe 10,000 years here in this region.
• 47:58
  8,000 years.
• 48:00
  And yeah, that was nice.
• 48:05
  And the industry things is maybe 200 years.
• 48:11
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 48:11
  Henrich Berkhoff: And the digital and the computer thing is maybe,
• 48:16
  you know, the start of the iPhone.
• 48:18
  Yeah.
• 48:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 48:20
  And this is, or the first personal computer from IBM.
• 48:25
  Yeah.
• 48:25
  Where we have, yeah.
• 48:26
  Yeah.
• 48:26
  Rupert Isaacson: I'm wearing the history here on my shirt, the digital world.
• 48:31
  Very recent.
• 48:32
  Yeah.
• 48:32
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 48:33
  And if we put all this time.
• 48:37
  On the, on the line at 60 minutes.
• 48:41
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 48:41
  Henrich Berkhoff: That means we have 59 minutes time from this one
• 48:49
  hour as we, we are in the world on a, at the hunter and gatherer.
• 48:57
  15, nine minutes, maybe 30 seconds As a farmer.
• 49:04
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 49:04
  Henrich Berkhoff: And the rest you cannot stop it.
• 49:08
  It's less than one second.
• 49:12
  Yeah.
• 49:14
  We are created by the nature, for the nature and not for all these
• 49:23
  other things we cannot handle.
• 49:25
  Maybe in 2 million years we have an interface here,
• 49:30
  whatever, but not in this time.
• 49:34
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
• 49:35
  Henrich Berkhoff: And more and more people are have problems with
• 49:43
  this, with this times, with this computer and with this big cities.
• 49:53
  And with that is also thousand of information, thousand of
• 49:59
  people are bombing your brain.
• 50:02
  Mm.
• 50:03
  We are not made for this.
• 50:06
  We can handle it.
• 50:07
  Yes, of course, but it is more and more people are struggling to do this.
• 50:15
  You can manage your, your, your, your environment.
• 50:22
  How in if you walk, can walk in a forest one day in this direction,
• 50:27
  one day in this direction.
• 50:28
  Yes.
• 50:29
  You have all this knowledge.
• 50:32
  You, you know exactly where can I, I have nice water to drink.
• 50:37
  Where can I collect honey?
• 50:38
  Where can I hope, luckily I can hunt deer.
• 50:43
  That is what we created for not for this thousand of information every second.
• 50:52
  Yeah.
• 50:53
  And especially have a look to the kiddos.
• 50:56
  This, they, they are in the age of four years, they get their first mobile phone.
• 51:05
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 51:06
  Henrich Berkhoff: That it's not the, that is, I, I think you can start
• 51:14
  with a mobile phone in the age of 14.
• 51:18
  That makes sense.
• 51:21
  But that is too much information to have good, healthy.
• 51:28
  Developed for your brain,
• 51:30
  Rupert Isaacson: right?
• 51:31
  You know, what's interesting about what you say?
• 51:33
  The million things coming in, in information, I would
• 51:37
  say that nature does that.
• 51:41
  Nature gives you 1 million things coming in all the time.
• 51:46
  Let's say you, not even if you're hunting or gathering but even if you're
• 51:52
  just walking between the temperature of the air, the direction of the wind,
• 52:01
  the different senses, the all of the things coming through your sensors,
• 52:05
  all the decisions you need to make with each place you put your feet.
• 52:10
  Because each time you put your foot to the ground, if you make a
• 52:15
  wrong decision, boom, down you go.
• 52:18
  I would argue that nature actually does.
• 52:23
  Do this thing of 1 million different things, but it does it in a way
• 52:29
  that our brain is designed for and absolutely this other digital thing,
• 52:39
  it's not designed for, but as you say, it can make a connection from one to
• 52:45
  the other perhaps when the brain has reached a certain point of development.
• 52:52
  This leads me to the next thing I want to ask you about.
• 52:57
  You are now also a politician.
• 53:00
  You are with the CDU in Germany, the Christian Democratic Union.
• 53:05
  Yeah.
• 53:06
  Obviously you have this background in advocacy, but why did you decide.
• 53:12
  On top of your stuff with the child protection agency on top of
• 53:19
  being a full-time farmer on top of running the therapeutic programs
• 53:25
  with your wife, giddy that you currently run on the farm as well.
• 53:30
  Why did you decide to add this because this is not a small thing
• 53:36
  just to get elected, it's a big thing.
• 53:39
  Why did you decide politics and why did you decide that
• 53:44
  particular area of politics?
• 53:47
  And for those who, that particular party for, for those listeners
• 53:51
  or viewers who are not familiar with the German system, the CDU is
• 53:56
  actually currently in government.
• 53:58
  So.
• 54:00
  Yeah.
• 54:01
  Good position for everybody knows
• 54:02
  Henrich Berkhoff: Mrs.
• 54:02
  Angela Merkel.
• 54:03
  Yeah.
• 54:03
  And she also, and Ham would call all this great leaders of our party.
• 54:09
  Yeah.
• 54:09
  And they make decisions that brings Germany cool.
• 54:14
  And powerful.
• 54:16
  And the first counselor of Germany after the Second World War was also a anar.
• 54:22
  Was that a Anar?
• 54:23
  Yes, of course.
• 54:24
  Yeah.
• 54:24
  And he bring Germany back to the world break, and then he create this great thing
• 54:32
  with France to make the y And Germany was not allowed at this time, but Germany
• 54:39
  said, Hey, we have this shitty, wrong way.
• 54:42
  It cost 60 million people their their lives.
• 54:46
  And now it does it, it do not happened again.
• 54:52
  Never, never.
• 54:53
  And please, we are now in this way.
• 54:57
  And, okay, how I decided to do this, it was easy if you have question
• 55:04
  and I I'm thought, oh, this is not okay, and this is not okay.
• 55:09
  And please do this in the other way to the courts, to the
• 55:13
  cities, to the administration.
• 55:16
  But yes, you have to do and put your thing in this your, this.
• 55:24
  Mr.
• 55:24
  Kennedy, he has a good speaking thing.
• 55:28
  He don't ask what the government can give or can do for you.
• 55:37
  You have to think about what can I give to your society, to
• 55:41
  your to your tribe, to whatever.
• 55:44
  Mm-hmm.
• 55:44
  That is the question.
• 55:45
  And if you say, Hey, this is I that is not okay.
• 55:50
  Yeah, please.
• 55:50
  You, you have to chance to do it in your way.
• 55:53
  And that is one of the reason I decided to make this politician.
• 55:59
  And yeah.
• 56:00
  And it was, it, it, it is cool if you are you know, politician means not you
• 56:09
  are in and everything has happened.
• 56:11
  Like, thinking in, you have to handle out the best solution with
• 56:18
  your own politicians, friends, and with other parties also.
• 56:25
  And that is what we do every day.
• 56:27
  It's.
• 56:28
  A little step, but it's okay.
• 56:31
  I think to do this, you need time and, but in, at the end, all the
• 56:41
  people wants to have security.
• 56:45
  They want to have quiet peace time.
• 56:49
  That is all the same.
• 56:51
  Yeah.
• 56:53
  Some days the, the way is a little bit different, but in the main parties we have
• 57:01
  here, not at the left or at the right.
• 57:05
  That is not the best.
• 57:07
  But mostly the people want to have this targets in, in their life.
• 57:14
  Yeah.
• 57:14
  And they can grow up.
• 57:15
  And
• 57:15
  Rupert Isaacson: you, you, the CDU that you are a, a member of,
• 57:18
  this is a very, you could say it's a middle, middle way party.
• 57:23
  Yeah.
• 57:23
  You are a believer in nature.
• 57:27
  You are a believer in the necessity of nature and movement in schools
• 57:34
  in childhood for even for adults.
• 57:38
  You, this has really become your life.
• 57:42
  Tell me, what are you doing as a politician to try to get this
• 57:49
  idea back into the mainstream?
• 57:52
  'cause just before you begin, you could have gone to the green party.
• 57:57
  Even though yes, you're a hunter, you're a farmer, but you're very much an ecologist
• 58:00
  as well, you're an organic farmer.
• 58:02
  So someone might say, oh, you could go to the greens.
• 58:06
  Why the CDU with your environmental outlook?
• 58:11
  Please explain,
• 58:14
  Henrich Berkhoff: ah, that is, in the, in my party, there is
• 58:18
  a conservative thinking way.
• 58:21
  They not make decisions like so fast.
• 58:26
  Mm-hmm.
• 58:27
  And they're thinking, ah, please remember the old days and this, and yeah.
• 58:33
  The, the agriculture thing is the same.
• 58:37
  If there's something happened, it needs time and more and more other ideas come
• 58:45
  up and they, sometimes they're cool.
• 58:51
  Okay.
• 58:52
  And that makes a different agriculture thinking and all this is same was
• 59:00
  what I am thinking in my party.
• 59:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 59:03
  If with this ideas that is not the mainstream.
• 59:08
  It's in the interesting, interesting thing to put this information in the discussion.
• 59:18
  And if you come back with a reason, Hey, have a look what happened in nature.
• 59:24
  What happened with a agriculture example for this.
• 59:31
  My father was asked in 1900 seventies to make all the hedges and ditches plain
• 59:41
  to make the best agriculture thing.
• 59:44
  It is easier to have big fields, and it's for the economy, is it easier?
• 59:50
  And he said, no, I have no, no interest.
• 59:55
  And this idea come from the government, from the local government.
• 59:58
  They, they give money for this.
• 1:00:00
  They have.
• 1:00:01
  And now in 2000, we have a plan to rewild to make, and they come here
• 1:00:11
  and talk to me and say, Hey, you have this ditches and you have this hedges.
• 1:00:16
  Thank you for the that you have this one.
• 1:00:19
  I think, Hey, you guys, you come 40 years earlier to my father and make it plain.
• 1:00:26
  And now you say thank you for me.
• 1:00:30
  And hey, you have to think about other dimensions.
• 1:00:36
  Yeah.
• 1:00:37
  Yeah.
• 1:00:37
  And that is what I bring in.
• 1:00:39
  And it is nice.
• 1:00:41
  It works.
• 1:00:43
  And the, this other thinking and you, you, you speak about, frame everything you do.
• 1:00:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:55
  Rupert Isaacson: Reframing, yeah.
• 1:00:56
  Reframe everything and completely.
• 1:00:58
  We
• 1:00:58
  Henrich Berkhoff: have no time to do this, but Please.
• 1:01:02
  Sometimes you have to do and you have to think.
• 1:01:05
  Yeah.
• 1:01:05
  And also if this Japanese people, if you had in a discussion with
• 1:01:13
  the Japanese people in their culture, they are not directly to
• 1:01:19
  you and bump you on at the nose.
• 1:01:23
  They give you in every discussion, they give you a chance to
• 1:01:29
  escape, to hold your face up.
• 1:01:35
  They give you the chance to do this, and that is so cool.
• 1:01:40
  And if you have this in, in, in your thinking.
• 1:01:44
  You can be a politician with success.
• 1:01:49
  Rupert Isaacson: What I know for example, you were just in Berlin with a
• 1:01:53
  mutual friend of ours David Doyle Yeah.
• 1:01:55
  Henrich Berkhoff: From
• 1:01:55
  Rupert Isaacson: Ireland.
• 1:01:56
  And you were,
• 1:01:59
  so for those listeners, I wish we could get David Doyle to come on a podcast.
• 1:02:04
  He's so shy, he won't come.
• 1:02:05
  You have to do this, but maybe we can put him under pressure.
• 1:02:09
  David Doyle, for those who do not know him is another autism dad in Ireland
• 1:02:14
  who has pioneered equine therapy and therapies through movement and with
• 1:02:19
  neuroscience to the point that in Ireland now, the government will back and pay
• 1:02:26
  for these therapies starting last year.
• 1:02:28
  He's an absolute force of nature, very kind, very unassuming man.
• 1:02:33
  And you, and he just went to Berlin.
• 1:02:36
  To government headquarters in, in, in Germany to talk about this sort of thing.
• 1:02:41
  What, what are you trying to achieve there?
• 1:02:43
  What would be your ideal goal?
• 1:02:46
  What in terms of nature, agriculture, and special needs and equine therapies
• 1:02:54
  in your perfect world in 20 years, what would the government there in
• 1:03:00
  Germany be doing in these areas?
• 1:03:05
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, thank you for David.
• 1:03:07
  He, they makes a great job in Ireland.
• 1:03:11
  And that is a European country too.
• 1:03:13
  Yeah.
• 1:03:13
  And we have some thoughts about, hey, how to put it in in other countries and
• 1:03:20
  to make this idea from nature healing.
• 1:03:26
  It's my word.
• 1:03:27
  Okay.
• 1:03:28
  It means why agriculture, animals, and nature.
• 1:03:33
  Can do more than just a system of produce food.
• 1:03:39
  There is so many healing spaces in this thinking.
• 1:03:45
  Right.
• 1:03:45
  And he, he did it in Ireland, successful.
• 1:03:49
  And we we create our farm here and we call it now Green Care Farm.
• 1:03:56
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:03:56
  Because in the beginning with Julian, we start with a horse thing.
• 1:04:05
  GI is, since she was a young lady in contact with horses and then we
• 1:04:12
  create, make it healing with horses.
• 1:04:16
  We started, we have three little ponies here and we started, and more and more
• 1:04:21
  people are visiting us and say, Hey.
• 1:04:23
  Looks very cool and can you do this for this our child?
• 1:04:29
  And then it grows up more and more and the families called up to us three
• 1:04:38
  weeks later and said, Hey, if we have bad times, now we are thinking about
• 1:04:43
  the time at your farm in the nature.
• 1:04:47
  And they are helping us.
• 1:04:49
  They pick up the ps, they bring the feed to the animals and all the, they
• 1:04:54
  are working here and gi and I asking each other, Hey, what, what happened?
• 1:05:01
  They, they are so happy.
• 1:05:02
  They, they give us money for, to, to make the work.
• 1:05:07
  No, there is so much more.
• 1:05:10
  They are, they, they feel useful.
• 1:05:13
  They feel in the nice environment.
• 1:05:17
  They feel the human environment and that gives them some cool
• 1:05:26
  energy and so good thoughts.
• 1:05:29
  And if they are remembering only remembering the time of
• 1:05:33
  the farm here, they feel better.
• 1:05:36
  And this is how we come on the way.
• 1:05:40
  And yeah, we, we feel it, but we have no idea what happened
• 1:05:45
  and why it happened, right?
• 1:05:47
  And that's changed If we have I, I, I, I found clinic and
• 1:05:54
  it called Horse Boy Method.
• 1:05:57
  I think, Hey, what, what they are doing there and am read,
• 1:06:01
  they go outside in nature, follow the child, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:06:04
  Say, Hey
• 1:06:07
  look here.
• 1:06:07
  That is similar to what we do.
• 1:06:11
  We have no idea.
• 1:06:11
  We, we do it because we feel it.
• 1:06:14
  That is good feeling.
• 1:06:15
  And that is, they're laughing.
• 1:06:17
  They, they like it to do and they come back.
• 1:06:20
  And now we have the chance to visit this clinic in 2070.
• 1:06:29
  And I sent GI there because hey, horse, horse things is more GIS things, but
• 1:06:36
  they now, I I am, we, we, we create an active stable for the horses in 2015.
• 1:06:43
  And I you
• 1:06:44
  Rupert Isaacson: where the horses live outside in a natural way.
• 1:06:46
  Yeah, that is right.
• 1:06:47
  Henrich Berkhoff: And we have 35 horses here on our farm.
• 1:06:51
  And so we, I ask how is the best environment for the horses?
• 1:06:57
  And the easiest thing is let them outside.
• 1:07:02
  That makes.
• 1:07:04
  Reduce all the problems they have.
• 1:07:07
  I asked the VE veterans here at the ecu and he said, Hey, if the
• 1:07:14
  outside, we have this, this, and this problems, we have solved this.
• 1:07:18
  Okay?
• 1:07:19
  And then more and more I am in the horse world and hey, GI starts with a normal
• 1:07:28
  stuff of riding if everybody here in the area starts for the competition and so on.
• 1:07:35
  I'm not interested.
• 1:07:37
  Interesting in this competition thing.
• 1:07:40
  Maybe in the evening, they have a nice parties after competition that, that
• 1:07:45
  was nice, but not this competition.
• 1:07:49
  It's not for me.
• 1:07:50
  But GI starts to make this ground the work from the ground with the horses and
• 1:07:56
  makes all the horsemen stuff and so on.
• 1:07:59
  And then, then I recognize, hey, that is cool.
• 1:08:02
  How is the way the horse knows where they had to go without the rope
• 1:08:11
  Come this from then I start, okay?
• 1:08:14
  We, we, we change our farm to this green care farm because we have the idea what
• 1:08:22
  is the science behind happiness in nature?
• 1:08:26
  What is the science behind the movement?
• 1:08:31
  And that is starts in this, time in 2017, we have this course here, and Giddy
• 1:08:39
  called me up, Hey, after one hour or one and a half hours, she called me up and
• 1:08:44
  said, Hey Henry, that is so cool here.
• 1:08:47
  Now I have an idea what is working in the human, what is the hormone
• 1:08:55
  thing we, and what is the reason that people are so yeah, so lucky
• 1:09:03
  and that people are so powerful now.
• 1:09:06
  And then she comes back and yeah, we can make this online course on the n tls.com.
• 1:09:13
  Co.
• 1:09:13
  Sorry.
• 1:09:14
  And on the trainer said, or you can visit this farm in Austin, Texas.
• 1:09:22
  And I said, gi, you have to go there.
• 1:09:25
  That is there, there come the idea from, please have a look there.
• 1:09:29
  That is really it says, yeah, please, you have to go there.
• 1:09:37
  And two days later, I thought, a 14 days in Austin to have all
• 1:09:45
  this horse boy movement stuff.
• 1:09:48
  And then she had to explain me this later.
• 1:09:52
  It cost another week.
• 1:09:55
  And so we decided to go both to the, in January, nobody has this idea to
• 1:10:03
  go in January to Austin and Texas,
• 1:10:06
  Rupert Isaacson: one of the nicest months,
• 1:10:09
  Henrich Berkhoff: but.
• 1:10:10
  That was so cool.
• 1:10:12
  And they opened all this signs behind and how to handle and all this tribe.
• 1:10:19
  And then we are back and we changed the farm in the green care farm thing.
• 1:10:27
  And this two, two weeks later in 2018, in January, we make a, a
• 1:10:38
  little path in our forest here.
• 1:10:41
  Mm.
• 1:10:42
  And somebody says, Hey, no, they are very stupid.
• 1:10:46
  They come back from wherever there was were, wherever there was, and
• 1:10:52
  now they make a trail here in the Forest Park what has happened.
• 1:10:58
  And yeah, we, we, we start with to do this and.
• 1:11:04
  The humans, the people, the families there come here.
• 1:11:08
  They say, they say thank you to us.
• 1:11:12
  That is a good feeling.
• 1:11:13
  Hey, we, we make this service sometimes for not so easy people
• 1:11:19
  because they have some problems.
• 1:11:21
  They have so many disabled things.
• 1:11:25
  But the nature give us the answer.
• 1:11:30
  They come down, they feel better and they feel good.
• 1:11:36
  And that comes from the nature.
• 1:11:38
  And we offered the way to the nature because we know yes,
• 1:11:44
  the nature is the answer.
• 1:11:48
  Rupert Isaacson: If you made it this far into the podcast, then I'm
• 1:11:51
  guessing you're somebody that, like me, loves to read books about not
• 1:11:56
  just how people have achieved self actualization, but particularly
• 1:12:00
  about the relationship with nature.
• 1:12:04
  Spirituality, life, the universe, and everything.
• 1:12:08
  And I'd like to draw your attention to my books.
• 1:12:11
  If you would like to read the story of how we even arrived here, perhaps
• 1:12:16
  you'd like to check out the two New York Times bestsellers, The Horseboy
• 1:12:21
  and The Long Ride Home, and come on an adventure with us and see what engendered,
• 1:12:26
  what started Live Free Ride Free.
• 1:12:28
  And before we go back to the podcast, also check out The Healing
• 1:12:32
  Land, which tells the story of.
• 1:12:35
  My years spent in the Kalahari with the Sun, Bushmen, hunter gatherer people
• 1:12:40
  there, and all that they taught me, and mentored me in, and all that I learned.
• 1:12:45
  Come on that adventure with me.
• 1:12:46
  So in 20 years, in your perfect world, or even sooner in five years
• 1:12:51
  does the government, not just in Germany, but perhaps in the eu.
• 1:12:58
  Begin to give money for people to use nature for mental health
• 1:13:13
  in a way that becomes universal and that we can see countryside being
• 1:13:24
  rewild as well as farmed both but with
• 1:13:32
  government policies on how to use this nature for the benefit
• 1:13:39
  of society, not just food.
• 1:13:42
  Is that kind of the end goal really?
• 1:13:46
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:13:46
  That is one of the reasons we visit this politicians in Berlin and.
• 1:13:55
  We have the meeting there and we open this
• 1:14:02
  reframe thing.
• 1:14:04
  Mm.
• 1:14:04
  Because there is a, this politician is a circle of the horse world, the
• 1:14:10
  business, the sports, the Olympic sports also, and they have all this
• 1:14:17
  breeding things and they have not discovered what is a big, big advantage
• 1:14:27
  to use the horse for other people.
• 1:14:33
  Yeah.
• 1:14:34
  And that works not only for disabled people, that works for every people.
• 1:14:40
  The, the, the per, for example, the AU autism people, they have the best,
• 1:14:48
  feelings to know what is good for them.
• 1:14:54
  And if the autism people, we love it.
• 1:14:57
  They come to our farm and they so honest to our, to, to, to everybody.
• 1:15:05
  Yeah.
• 1:15:05
  And they say, Hey, that is cool.
• 1:15:06
  That is not cool.
• 1:15:07
  Easy.
• 1:15:08
  And they go to the next but that they have the feeling what is good for the humans?
• 1:15:16
  What is the They have no ego.
• 1:15:18
  Yeah.
• 1:15:19
  They, they said That is okay.
• 1:15:20
  That's not okay.
• 1:15:22
  And they ended up with the animals and with the nature mostly.
• 1:15:28
  And that was a ta one of the targets to show how fits agriculture.
• 1:15:38
  That means all the horse stuff, health and also education.
• 1:15:44
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
• 1:15:45
  Henrich Berkhoff: Together.
• 1:15:47
  And that is a big, big universe we open.
• 1:15:52
  Yeah.
• 1:15:54
  Rupert Isaacson: It's so interesting, isn't it?
• 1:15:55
  When you live the sort of life that you live or I live, it's so obvious that
• 1:16:02
  all of these points connect education, mental health, physical health.
• 1:16:08
  That was so crazy.
• 1:16:10
  But it's so bizarre that one has to convince any of your body office.
• 1:16:14
  Yeah,
• 1:16:14
  Henrich Berkhoff: I, they, they, they, they're listening to us in this
• 1:16:18
  conference room and they asking our all this question and we say, yeah,
• 1:16:23
  the solution is movement, nature.
• 1:16:26
  Oh, this problem.
• 1:16:28
  Yeah.
• 1:16:28
  Solution is movement.
• 1:16:29
  Nature, animals, perhaps they bring it you in the nature.
• 1:16:34
  And that is a the universe.
• 1:16:38
  Ah, that was so funny.
• 1:16:41
  Yeah, they, they are politicians.
• 1:16:44
  That's an interesting point.
• 1:16:45
  They talk about the economy from this.
• 1:16:51
  So, this system we have the health system in Germany and the system
• 1:16:55
  for socialization, all this, you get money for, to have your own
• 1:17:01
  flat, you have to, all this costs are growing more and more and more.
• 1:17:07
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:17:08
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:17:08
  If you have this line on the chart, it's the same line.
• 1:17:12
  More and more becomes people on the world.
• 1:17:15
  More and more becomes digitalization.
• 1:17:19
  Yeah.
• 1:17:19
  There's the same rates.
• 1:17:22
  They go higher.
• 1:17:24
  And more and more cost is for the health industries.
• 1:17:29
  They give your this Americans and, and, and, but we, we, Germany is a, a rich
• 1:17:40
  country, but we come at the end to make this happen, we have to solve money.
• 1:17:48
  And then they ask, Hey, we have to discuss discuss in this future in Berlin.
• 1:17:55
  They have to discuss all the systems, bring it down on the other level that is
• 1:18:02
  next they, we can we have money for this.
• 1:18:06
  Rupert Isaacson: Right?
• 1:18:06
  And this is where David Doyle has been so amazing.
• 1:18:09
  So he proved, just for listeners who don't know of this, he proved
• 1:18:13
  to the Irish government who have a ministry of disability that's, it's
• 1:18:17
  quite enlightened that with autistic adult males who had a history.
• 1:18:24
  Habit of violence and many of whom would need maybe four people with
• 1:18:30
  them, which is costing the government more than 1 million euros, closer to
• 1:18:36
  2 million euros per year per person.
• 1:18:39
  He showed that with movement method, he could bring that down to one person,
• 1:18:45
  which was saving the government more than a million euros per person per year.
• 1:18:50
  And he gathered the data on this over five years and made his case.
• 1:18:55
  And what happened in 2024 with the Irish government then saying, okay, we will
• 1:19:01
  support this movement in nature thing.
• 1:19:04
  Absolutely.
• 1:19:05
  It's great to see that you guys are now taking it into into Germany because
• 1:19:11
  of course if something happens there, then it goes to the rest of the eu.
• 1:19:16
  It's amazing work.
• 1:19:17
  And you were talking about the other, I think.
• 1:19:21
  As we sort of move towards the two hour mark, the last thing I would like to
• 1:19:26
  ask you about is the work that you're doing to bring this into education.
• 1:19:32
  So you have started for some years now doing what you call Bienhoff Pedagogic.
• 1:19:39
  We are meaning farm, farm school effectively farm teaching.
• 1:19:46
  So where the local schools to your, in your town bring their kids out.
• 1:19:52
  Not just to experience the farm, but actually to have academics on the farm.
• 1:19:56
  This is fantastic and I know that you are now training other people in
• 1:20:01
  Germany how to do this and going out to other places and even now making an
• 1:20:06
  initiative across the border with the Netherlands to start doing the same thing.
• 1:20:10
  Can you just tell us a little bit about that work?
• 1:20:14
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, the thank you.
• 1:20:18
  To bring it in school.
• 1:20:19
  We have in Germany a nice, quite section that called dra mm-hmm.
• 1:20:27
  To learn outside.
• 1:20:29
  And they have the idea, and that is based in Munich.
• 1:20:35
  They have the university technical University Munich.
• 1:20:39
  They, they are just started a big data based program there.
• 1:20:46
  And we are in four years, we, we visit this first meetings and they say, Hey, we,
• 1:20:55
  we know if you if you have movement and learning together, you get better results.
• 1:21:03
  That is not a secret also, that is now.
• 1:21:08
  Everywhere.
• 1:21:09
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:21:09
  All the neuroscientists agree on this.
• 1:21:10
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:11
  Henrich Berkhoff: But the question is, hey, why the schools hold to the old
• 1:21:19
  Rupert Isaacson: system?
• 1:21:20
  Mm.
• 1:21:21
  Yeah.
• 1:21:21
  It's a good question, isn't it?
• 1:21:23
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, it's a good question.
• 1:21:24
  I have no answer, but I have some 1, 2, 3 thoughts about this.
• 1:21:30
  And then one question, if you are reframing this, where come school from?
• 1:21:36
  Yeah.
• 1:21:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:21:37
  The first schools, the first reading and writing things was in the church.
• 1:21:44
  In the religion, religion thing.
• 1:21:47
  They, they not allowed everybody to make this reading and writing stuff.
• 1:21:54
  It is only in the church to do and also later.
• 1:21:59
  The military comes on this because they have to organize the army and the
• 1:22:05
  soldiers, and especially the officers how to make this war or what, whatever
• 1:22:12
  that is, where the school system is in, in later in the industry relations
• 1:22:19
  time begins 1,870, maybe the first big fabrics come to make all the big
• 1:22:26
  Rupert Isaacson: factories.
• 1:22:27
  Yeah,
• 1:22:27
  Henrich Berkhoff: yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:28
  They come up and they need this reading and writing stuff for normal workers.
• 1:22:35
  Oh yeah.
• 1:22:37
  That is useful to make more cars, make trains, and whatever we need in this time.
• 1:22:43
  Yeah.
• 1:22:43
  And then they created codes, not.
• 1:22:47
  From the thinking and the iCal thing they created, Hey, there's we
• 1:22:52
  have the soldiers in, in quarters to turn and we make it the same.
• 1:22:58
  And all kiddos burn in the age of seven have to go there.
• 1:23:03
  That is, they not asking how to learn is the best way and it, they have
• 1:23:08
  to organize and, but industrialized.
• 1:23:12
  Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
• 1:23:12
  Yeah.
• 1:23:12
  Henrich Berkhoff: Absolutely.
• 1:23:14
  Some school buildings today, if you saw all the classrooms behind and the long
• 1:23:22
  floor in the middle and underside the next, that comes from this thinking.
• 1:23:27
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:23:28
  Henrich Berkhoff: And the teachers have to teach this.
• 1:23:32
  And the, remember if you have child.
• 1:23:39
  Until they go to school, they ask you many, many questions to the parents
• 1:23:45
  every day, every second, every hour.
• 1:23:49
  Mm.
• 1:23:49
  Sometimes it is not easy to handle for parents.
• 1:23:53
  Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
• 1:23:53
  Henrich Berkhoff: The kiddos have question.
• 1:23:55
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:23:56
  Henrich Berkhoff: How is that and how is that and blah blah and this.
• 1:24:00
  And with the beginning of the school time then.
• 1:24:04
  Yeah.
• 1:24:04
  It's so true.
• 1:24:05
  They were asked by the teacher, Hey, is that the best way to learn?
• 1:24:11
  No.
• 1:24:12
  Please have this picture in your head.
• 1:24:15
  And yeah.
• 1:24:16
  That is how school systems today are working.
• 1:24:21
  They have no idea to trust the kiddos.
• 1:24:29
  The kiddos are designed for learning normally.
• 1:24:35
  But the teachers mostly have no trust to do, to give them the free well, right.
• 1:24:41
  Because
• 1:24:42
  Rupert Isaacson: freedom, free freedom of learning or, or Yeah.
• 1:24:45
  Yeah.
• 1:24:45
  Self-directed learning.
• 1:24:47
  Henrich Berkhoff: And the teachers have to look
• 1:24:48
  Rupert Isaacson: means you can't control, and then if you can't control, you can't
• 1:24:51
  put them in the factory and you can't put them in the army to go and die.
• 1:24:56
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:24:56
  Rupert Isaacson: Because maybe they will have another idea.
• 1:24:58
  Henrich Berkhoff: All these thinkings are coming here.
• 1:25:02
  Yeah.
• 1:25:02
  And yeah.
• 1:25:03
  And this is we have to create another learning environment mm-hmm.
• 1:25:09
  Because we have so many things to solve in this future.
• 1:25:13
  Right.
• 1:25:13
  Rupert Isaacson: And economics has changed.
• 1:25:15
  We're not doing factories anymore.
• 1:25:16
  Yeah.
• 1:25:16
  Yeah.
• 1:25:17
  Henrich Berkhoff: And that is where we now, in this time, we have changed more
• 1:25:23
  and more in this direction, but, mm-hmm.
• 1:25:26
  Remember for the teacher they, that that is not the, the discuss
• 1:25:31
  the decision of every teacher.
• 1:25:33
  Yeah.
• 1:25:33
  The, the system gives the teacher how to work.
• 1:25:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:25:37
  But they, this time is for the, the, the, the students sitting in the
• 1:25:45
  school and they have to find their own way and the teacher have to
• 1:25:49
  become more and more to go with them.
• 1:25:53
  Not forward, but they have to give the tools for this
• 1:25:59
  students to find their best way.
• 1:26:02
  Yeah.
• 1:26:03
  That is what I am want, I want to create things like this.
• 1:26:11
  And if you go in the nature, if you have the move movement, you, you feel good.
• 1:26:18
  Can create good.
• 1:26:19
  So solution for the future.
• 1:26:22
  Rupert Isaacson: Right.
• 1:26:23
  And you are, you are, you are bringing nature into the classroom.
• 1:26:27
  Not just saying, because it's so easy for a school to say, sorry,
• 1:26:30
  we can't take the kids into the forest because there's no time.
• 1:26:33
  That's the first thing they'll always say.
• 1:26:35
  Yeah.
• 1:26:35
  And of course you are saying, well, that's not a problem.
• 1:26:38
  We can recreate this nature right here in the classroom.
• 1:26:41
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:26:42
  We have nature also in the cities.
• 1:26:44
  Yeah.
• 1:26:44
  Go, go to the green parks.
• 1:26:47
  Okay, go to the cemeteries.
• 1:26:50
  Absolutely.
• 1:26:50
  They're green.
• 1:26:51
  Rupert Isaacson: And canals ask the people there, the land along the railways.
• 1:26:55
  Absolutely.
• 1:26:56
  Yeah.
• 1:26:56
  Henrich Berkhoff: You, you can find.
• 1:26:57
  But you have to trust in the kiddos.
• 1:27:00
  They want to be a problem solver.
• 1:27:05
  Mm.
• 1:27:05
  But for this, you have to explore everything.
• 1:27:11
  If you have a mistake, yes, it is good to know.
• 1:27:14
  This is not the best way.
• 1:27:16
  Please choose this way.
• 1:27:18
  And this is what we have to learn.
• 1:27:21
  If you make a mistake, especially in Germany, you are out, you
• 1:27:25
  have a mark in a red color.
• 1:27:28
  It my, my my school papers.
• 1:27:33
  There is more in red on the side as I wrote in my blue color.
• 1:27:39
  That is, and that mean I never go at home and read this red marks on the right side.
• 1:27:47
  Never.
• 1:27:48
  I closed it
• 1:27:48
  Rupert Isaacson: straight on the fire.
• 1:27:50
  Henrich Berkhoff: And that is, Hey, that is stupid.
• 1:27:54
  Rupert Isaacson: You know what's so interesting?
• 1:27:55
  I just did my German exam Ah, yeah.
• 1:27:58
  Germany for my B one German level, and it was a six hour exam.
• 1:28:07
  And I haven't done anything like this since I was,
• 1:28:13
  I don't know, for 500 years or something like that.
• 1:28:16
  And I'm sitting in this room.
• 1:28:22
  That's completely not the way I would teach, not the way I would learn
• 1:28:27
  and say, okay, I must do this now.
• 1:28:29
  And just to make it that little bit more difficult, you couldn't
• 1:28:35
  answer your proofing your exam, your exam questions on the exam paper,
• 1:28:43
  which in England you can do ah,
• 1:28:45
  mm-hmm.
• 1:28:46
  You had to have a separate, what they called un book and an answer
• 1:28:51
  key sheet where you had to make sure that your answers, you filled
• 1:28:58
  it in on this separate sheet.
• 1:29:00
  Oh, and.
• 1:29:01
  You had to answer with a little X inside a circle.
• 1:29:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:29:07
  Not, not bigger than the circle.
• 1:29:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:29:09
  Not next to the circle.
• 1:29:10
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:29:11
  Not a
• 1:29:11
  tick this special way.
• 1:29:13
  Or if it was like a little lozenge shape, you had to fill it in like that with your
• 1:29:21
  pencil, but not to put a circle around it.
• 1:29:24
  Nothing like that.
• 1:29:25
  Oh.
• 1:29:26
  And if you're like me, I have a little bit of numerical dyslexia, so sometimes
• 1:29:32
  I will put, let numbers, oh shit.
• 1:29:35
  The wrong way round.
• 1:29:36
  So 17 becomes S one or something like this.
• 1:29:39
  Yeah.
• 1:29:39
  So
• 1:29:40
  I am immediately paranoid as I go into this exam.
• 1:29:45
  Not so much will I get the questions right.
• 1:29:49
  Okay.
• 1:29:49
  That is a worry too.
• 1:29:51
  But will I answer them in this industrialized way that causes
• 1:29:58
  an extra level of stress?
• 1:30:01
  Mm.
• 1:30:01
  That prevents learning.
• 1:30:03
  And it's so interesting knowing the neuroscience that we know about cortisol,
• 1:30:09
  the stress hormone blocking learning.
• 1:30:14
  I looked at this and said, this is designed for cortisol.
• 1:30:17
  Mm.
• 1:30:18
  So this is designed to make you fail.
• 1:30:24
  That is not teaching, that is elitism.
• 1:30:29
  That is different.
• 1:30:31
  And so I came up, but congratulations.
• 1:30:34
  A special, a special way of coping with this.
• 1:30:35
  But yeah, it, I had stress from this, and this is me having gone through
• 1:30:41
  that system and rejected it, and then knowing what I know now, but yeah,
• 1:30:46
  for young kids, it's not the way.
• 1:30:48
  Yeah.
• 1:30:49
  Henrich Berkhoff: But congratulations.
• 1:30:50
  You did it.
• 1:30:51
  Yeah.
• 1:30:52
  Rupert Isaacson: I, I passed.
• 1:30:52
  Yeah.
• 1:30:53
  Thank God.
• 1:30:54
  Thank God.
• 1:30:55
  Henrich Berkhoff: Otherwise you can sit in some of our schools
• 1:30:59
  here and you can learn it.
• 1:31:01
  Yeah.
• 1:31:01
  And this schools ask to visit the farm.
• 1:31:05
  Yeah.
• 1:31:05
  And that is one of our business today.
• 1:31:10
  We have schools, they come here and also we have the healthy
• 1:31:16
  and horse thing together.
• 1:31:19
  They come there's a next pillow.
• 1:31:22
  No, what is it, Zoe?
• 1:31:23
  Pillar.
• 1:31:23
  Pillar
• 1:31:24
  Rupert Isaacson: the next, yeah.
• 1:31:25
  Henrich Berkhoff: A part of our business here is children and kiddos
• 1:31:29
  from the hosp psychology hospital.
• 1:31:32
  Yeah.
• 1:31:32
  From the
• 1:31:32
  Rupert Isaacson: psychiatric hospitals.
• 1:31:34
  And also you've, you've been taking kids from the local refugee.
• 1:31:39
  Population as well.
• 1:31:40
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:31:41
  And then they come here more and more the, the doctors from the ology hospital
• 1:31:46
  say, Hey, it is so easier with our therapeutic, therapeutic thinking.
• 1:31:54
  And after the kiddos stay on your farm, and the next two days
• 1:32:01
  it is easier to do our work.
• 1:32:06
  And sometimes they're wondering, Hey, this boy crash every door
• 1:32:12
  here in our hospital room.
• 1:32:16
  And he's so in freedom in in the time at your farm.
• 1:32:20
  Yeah.
• 1:32:21
  Where come this from and say, Hey, I, I, I, I'm I giving the opportunity.
• 1:32:30
  To get in contact with nature and visit animals.
• 1:32:34
  And believe me, the, the kiddos, they have an idea what is right and what is wrong.
• 1:32:43
  They have an idea what is nice.
• 1:32:47
  And if they are in the other world and they, they destroy
• 1:32:54
  themselves or other things that is crying, that is shouting, help me.
• 1:33:02
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:33:03
  Henrich Berkhoff: That is they cannot describe it in the other way.
• 1:33:07
  Absolutely.
• 1:33:08
  They crash the door up or box to the staff there and whatever happened,
• 1:33:17
  but he, nothing really giddy said to me, please do not say nothing.
• 1:33:25
  Sometimes it happens.
• 1:33:26
  Yeah, maybe.
• 1:33:28
  But 99, 9% they have an idea of what is good and what is not so good
• 1:33:37
  and give them the responsibilities.
• 1:33:42
  They do their right way.
• 1:33:43
  But yeah, of course you have to look after, you have to design how to go in
• 1:33:51
  the nature and how to handle the, the, the animals, they have to know this.
• 1:33:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:33:57
  They have children, they have no idea that is a cow or this is a horse.
• 1:34:02
  They have no idea.
• 1:34:04
  And also nice story, there was the mother, we have a chicken with little chicken.
• 1:34:09
  They come two days old.
• 1:34:12
  Little, little tiny chicken.
• 1:34:14
  And the mother comes with this, two kiddos from this clinic and ask, Hey,
• 1:34:20
  how do you feed the little chicken with.
• 1:34:24
  Sorry.
• 1:34:27
  This is how far away from nature we are.
• 1:34:32
  Yeah.
• 1:34:33
  Yeah.
• 1:34:34
  And if the, the problems reducing is bring the people back in nature.
• 1:34:42
  And if you use a horse is a powerful thing.
• 1:34:47
  If you have dogs, if you have other animals, if you have, and ask the local
• 1:34:54
  farmers, they are a little bit mind open.
• 1:34:57
  Hey, can I visit your place and give them the money for this to do?
• 1:35:02
  And they are thinking, Hey, we, we cannot, we can do more than
• 1:35:07
  produce the the, the, the meat.
• 1:35:11
  And
• 1:35:11
  Rupert Isaacson: this is so true.
• 1:35:12
  It's interesting because we're now looking at the end of.
• 1:35:16
  The era of big subsidies probably for farmers.
• 1:35:20
  And I know many farmers are asking themselves, okay, how do we, how do
• 1:35:27
  we stay alive in the next generation?
• 1:35:31
  And if people like you at the political level are able to lobby
• 1:35:38
  government to say, okay, maybe we don't need to pay the subsidy here.
• 1:35:45
  Maybe the subsidy now goes to mental health.
• 1:35:49
  Because if we pay the farmers, the foresters, the custodians of the land,
• 1:35:55
  if we can train them and pay them to help look after the mental health of
• 1:36:01
  the people in the cities, our costs will go down as David Doyle proved.
• 1:36:08
  And it's people like you and people like David who do it.
• 1:36:14
  On their place, they do it on their farm, you do it on a farm and you go
• 1:36:18
  out to the political level and advocate.
• 1:36:24
  And I would suggest that your early years as a parent with Julian prepared
• 1:36:34
  you for this because just as the advocacy work that I do, it was all
• 1:36:41
  the early years with Rowan that prepare me now for some of the political
• 1:36:47
  outreach and so on that I have to do.
• 1:36:49
  I imagine at the end of your life when you are looking back, you'll look to
• 1:36:53
  those early years with Julian and say, ah, yes, that was the training ground.
• 1:36:58
  That was where I learned my skills.
• 1:37:00
  Yeah, how to do it at home, how to do it in my community,
• 1:37:07
  and then how to take it wider.
• 1:37:10
  Yeah.
• 1:37:10
  I think we ly can thank our special needs children for this.
• 1:37:14
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:37:14
  I'm also so grateful to have the opportunity to go this way.
• 1:37:23
  Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
• 1:37:25
  Henrich Berkhoff: It's not the easiest way, but,
• 1:37:26
  Rupert Isaacson: but it's the most meaningful way.
• 1:37:28
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:37:28
  It's a meaningful, powerful way.
• 1:37:31
  And that is the reason we, we, we know each other, we, we are talking about
• 1:37:35
  this and not to search the mental thing in India, you, you, you stay India.
• 1:37:46
  Yeah.
• 1:37:46
  You can, maybe you can find it.
• 1:37:49
  But it's also not easy.
• 1:37:51
  Yes.
• 1:37:53
  Rupert Isaacson: Well, if we're gonna take something like this to India, we
• 1:37:55
  better prove it here where we live first.
• 1:37:57
  Yeah.
• 1:37:58
  Okay.
• 1:37:59
  Henrich Berkhoff: Okay.
• 1:37:59
  But if we, if we stand together and have a look to the disabled
• 1:38:05
  people to this not normal humans.
• 1:38:10
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:38:11
  It, there is more than someone expected.
• 1:38:16
  Yeah.
• 1:38:17
  And there is, they are the
• 1:38:20
  Rupert Isaacson: shamans.
• 1:38:21
  They are the healers.
• 1:38:22
  They are the people who make the magic.
• 1:38:24
  Henrich Berkhoff: They give us the answers to our questions.
• 1:38:26
  Rupert Isaacson: They do.
• 1:38:27
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:38:29
  Rupert Isaacson: Henrich, thank you.
• 1:38:31
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:38:31
  Thank you Ru.
• 1:38:33
  So it was a nice talk here about everything and nothing.
• 1:38:41
  And I think, hopefully I answer all the question.
• 1:38:45
  You, you, you did very, very well.
• 1:38:47
  Rupert Isaacson: I look forward to following where this
• 1:38:50
  next bit of work in Berlin.
• 1:38:52
  Henrich Berkhoff: Ah, yeah.
• 1:38:54
  Rupert Isaacson: And in the Netherlands as well.
• 1:38:56
  I'm, I'm, oh yeah.
• 1:38:57
  I'm really interested to see how this goes.
• 1:38:59
  So maybe in a few months we have you back and you can give us a report.
• 1:39:05
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yes, I, I will do.
• 1:39:07
  Thank you.
• 1:39:07
  It, it is my pleasure.
• 1:39:08
  Rupert Isaacson: Perhaps with Julian, maybe he would like
• 1:39:10
  to come on the podcast too.
• 1:39:13
  Henrich Berkhoff: That is a cool idea.
• 1:39:14
  Y that is, that makes sense.
• 1:39:17
  Rupert Isaacson: Maybe.
• 1:39:17
  And his brothers actually.
• 1:39:19
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:39:20
  Give, ask them.
• 1:39:22
  Is it true what Gia and Henry are talking about?
• 1:39:27
  Rupert Isaacson: That's right.
• 1:39:28
  Henrich Berkhoff: Or is it, is it they say, oh, that my, my parents, yeah.
• 1:39:34
  Please do this.
• 1:39:35
  Okay.
• 1:39:35
  Yeah, that's good idea.
• 1:39:36
  Let's,
• 1:39:36
  Rupert Isaacson: let's, let's reconvene with that.
• 1:39:39
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:39:39
  Rupert Isaacson: All right.
• 1:39:40
  Well, my friend, thank you again so much.
• 1:39:43
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah.
• 1:39:44
  Rupert Isaacson: And I just look forward to the next, not just the next
• 1:39:47
  conversation, but hearing the results.
• 1:39:49
  I want to know.
• 1:39:50
  Henrich Berkhoff: Okay.
• 1:39:51
  That is important too.
• 1:39:54
  Yes.
• 1:39:54
  No pressure, but if you feel, eh, at your don't, if you feel it
• 1:40:02
  is good, please follow this one.
• 1:40:04
  Don't follow this.
• 1:40:05
  What your brain, pre, pre put the, the
• 1:40:14
  pre for cortex.
• 1:40:16
  Prefrontal cortex.
• 1:40:18
  Please don't follow your feelings
• 1:40:19
  Rupert Isaacson: for that big principal cortex.
• 1:40:20
  No.
• 1:40:20
  So it gets things wrong.
• 1:40:21
  Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, that is, that is right.
• 1:40:25
  Rupert Isaacson: The stomach and the heart too.
• 1:40:27
  Henrich Berkhoff: Cool.
• 1:40:28
  Rupert Isaacson: Alright, well, until next time my friend.
• 1:40:31
  Bye-bye.
• 1:40:32
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• 1:40:32
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• 1:40:37
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