Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Jeremy Gartner and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Jeremy Gartner and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:13
  Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
• 0:17
  Connections, the show where access creates opportunities
• 0:21
  and relationships and move careers forward. I'm
• 0:25
  your host, Michael Foreman. The professional
• 0:28
  landscape is changing fast. Layoffs are happening
• 0:31
  at higher levels. Companies are becoming more
• 0:34
  efficient with AI and roles that once felt secure
• 0:38
  are now being re -evaluated. At the same time,
• 0:42
  More qualified professionals than ever are competing
• 0:46
  for fewer visible opportunities. So here's the
• 0:49
  question. If applying isn't working the way it
• 0:53
  used to, what does? My guest today believes the
• 0:57
  answer is simple but not easy. Access beats applications.
• 1:02
  We're talking about how relationships open doors
• 1:05
  that resumes can't, how executives can position
• 1:09
  themselves differently in today's market, and
• 1:12
  why the right conversation often matters more
• 1:15
  than the perfect application. If you want to
• 1:18
  stay relevant, visible and connected in a changing
• 1:22
  market, this episode is for you. So let me get
• 1:26
  into it. I'd like to welcome to the podcast,
• 1:29
  Jeremy. I'm so grateful that you're here. Would
• 1:32
  you mind giving us a little bit of how you got
• 1:35
  where you are today? Sure. So today, I am leading
• 1:41
  one of the fastest growing career coaching companies
• 1:44
  for executives. My background is... not relevant
• 1:48
  at all. I got a PhD in aerospace engineering.
• 1:51
  I got my MBA from Wharton. I worked in industry.
• 1:54
  So I'm not the typical HR person transitioning
• 1:58
  to career coaching. My gift, I believe, in that
• 2:02
  world is to be able to land any opportunity that
• 2:04
  you just want without being qualified for it.
• 2:11
  And at the beginning of COVID, when people started
• 2:15
  losing their jobs left and right, I did an experiment.
• 2:19
  And it was a very simple post on LinkedIn. I
• 2:23
  just said, whoever lost their job because of
• 2:26
  COVID, I will help them with their resume for
• 2:29
  $5. And what I found was fascinating. I had access
• 2:35
  to very senior executives right away. that needed
• 2:39
  help with a story, that they thought they need
• 2:42
  a resume. But I knew that what they need is a
• 2:46
  story and a strategy on how to connect with the
• 2:49
  right individuals. And I had access from the
• 2:55
  front line, really, on how they think, on how
• 2:58
  they are navigating their life. And I thought
• 3:01
  to myself, what an amazing way to really accelerate
• 3:03
  my learning. And by doing that, I was able to
• 3:08
  learn from them, but also to teach them what
• 3:10
  I knew very intuitively and starting building
• 3:12
  frameworks around that. And that was the starting
• 3:15
  point since then. It was six years ago. Since
• 3:17
  then, we had more than a thousand clients. We
• 3:20
  have nowadays a big team of coaches that are
• 3:22
  very clear frameworks on how to do that. But
• 3:25
  yeah, that was the beginning of that journey.
• 3:29
  That sounds fantastic. That really does. Okay,
• 3:32
  so I came up with a bunch of questions for you.
• 3:35
  So let's dive right in. You're seeing major shifts
• 3:38
  in the executive market. How are layoffs and
• 3:42
  AI -driven efficiency changing the way professionals
• 3:46
  need to network? People are going to lose their
• 3:52
  jobs left and right because of AI. That's a given.
• 3:56
  That's not even an argument anymore. That's already
• 3:58
  happening. Now, people really tend to rely a
• 4:05
  lot on what they can control, which is going
• 4:08
  to job boards such as LinkedIn. The problem with
• 4:13
  LinkedIn is, number one, it's not a game you
• 4:17
  can win at the executive level. At the executive
• 4:20
  level, what you need is relationships. It's not
• 4:23
  a job board. If you see a job that is... advertised,
• 4:28
  by that time it's already too late. They already
• 4:31
  know who they want, it's there really for compliance
• 4:33
  reasons. So the way to go about it, it's by building
• 4:38
  the right relationships with the right individuals.
• 4:41
  But you can leverage AI and automation and LinkedIn
• 4:45
  so that you can create really a very nice machine
• 4:49
  that is going to get you 10 to 20 phone calls
• 4:53
  automatically on LinkedIn with the right individuals,
• 4:57
  with the right thought leaders in the industry.
• 5:00
  And by doing that at scale, you can start realizing
• 5:03
  what do I need to improve? Is that my story?
• 5:05
  Is that how I'm communicating my value? Is that
• 5:09
  how I'm building the relationships? And then
• 5:12
  you can start iterate on that process and accelerate
• 5:14
  all of that. But AI plays a huge part of it because
• 5:18
  AI, it's not a solution, but that's a huge accelerator
• 5:21
  to a process that you can create. Very good.
• 5:27
  Very interesting also. I can't wait to replay
• 5:30
  this because I want to listen to all of it again.
• 5:32
  You say access beats applications. What does
• 5:37
  that really mean for someone relying on job boards
• 5:40
  or traditional hiring processes? Job boards.
• 5:45
  Today, you can beat job boards using AI, meaning
• 5:49
  that you can create an app. that is going to
• 5:54
  tailor your resume to a job that was advertised
• 5:58
  and submit that resume and submit hundreds of
• 6:03
  resumes like that every day. Automatically. Now,
• 6:08
  at the executive level, from the get -go, we
• 6:12
  just say, if you have a job there, it's because
• 6:14
  of compliance reasons. It's not because they're
• 6:17
  really trying to hire through that channel. It's
• 6:20
  to claim that it's a fair opportunity. It's not
• 6:22
  a fair opportunity. They know who they want.
• 6:25
  The name of the game is not to get to that job
• 6:28
  by having a better resume that is tailored because
• 6:31
  if that's the game you play, you are going to
• 6:34
  get people beating you at that game because they're
• 6:37
  going to play a volume game. Access means that
• 6:40
  you are going to be in front of the right person
• 6:43
  qualified to create a job for you. even though
• 6:47
  right now they don't have a need for you. So
• 6:51
  the name of the game is really to build relationships
• 6:53
  with the right individuals so that they know
• 6:56
  about you. And in the end of the day, it's not
• 6:58
  about who you know, it's about who knows about
• 7:00
  you. And that's the game we play here. That's
• 7:04
  Access. Okay, very good. Why are many highly
• 7:10
  qualified professionals struggling to land opportunities
• 7:14
  despite strong resumes and experience? Because
• 7:21
  the resume is no more than a piece of paper.
• 7:24
  That's not what's going to get you a job. Think
• 7:27
  about it that way. As an employee, as an executive,
• 7:33
  you are being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars,
• 7:37
  right? If we reverse that story, you are a business
• 7:43
  owner offering services that are worth hundreds
• 7:47
  of thousands of dollars with a business model
• 7:50
  which is to give exclusivity to one buyer at
• 7:53
  a time. Now, if what you are trying to do is
• 7:58
  to close a sale of a few hundreds of thousands
• 8:00
  of dollars, You will not do that by sending a
• 8:04
  flyer. What you need is the story. The flyer
• 8:10
  is just a tool. The way to build a great business
• 8:13
  is by building assets. The asset behind the resume
• 8:17
  is the story. So that's where the focus should
• 8:21
  be, not that piece of paper. Okay. What happens
• 8:26
  in a relationship that allows someone to bypass
• 8:29
  the application process, entirely to bypass the
• 8:36
  end the application process starts way before
• 8:41
  that job is advertised anywhere it starts from
• 8:46
  really the point when the hiring manager has
• 8:49
  a need let's say they need to build a budget
• 8:53
  for the new business units okay and they know
• 8:58
  that they don't have the bandwidth to do that.
• 9:00
  And for that, maybe they're going to need a VP
• 9:02
  of finance. So they have that pain point at that
• 9:08
  same moment. Now, typically what's going to happen,
• 9:12
  they're going to speak with the team, they're
• 9:13
  going to start brainstorming solutions, they're
• 9:15
  going to identify they need a VP of finance,
• 9:17
  they're going to go to the HR, right? Your job
• 9:22
  is to get to know that hiring manager before
• 9:24
  they have the need. even to shape the market
• 9:28
  for your services so that they know that if ever
• 9:33
  at any point in time they will have that type
• 9:35
  of problem, you are the person they should speak
• 9:38
  with and that you will be more than happy to
• 9:41
  help them creating something. That's how you
• 9:45
  are going to bypass the process by just being
• 9:47
  in front of the right person before that it is
• 9:50
  advertised anywhere. So how do you recommend
• 9:53
  somebody do that? All of this is creating a relationship
• 9:58
  with that person. So what would you suggest that
• 10:03
  our listeners can create that relationship? What's
• 10:10
  the best way for them to do it? LinkedIn. LinkedIn
• 10:14
  is the best way to do that. Now you are going
• 10:19
  to send a message, not if you want the very tactical
• 10:22
  way of doing things. It's not about sending them
• 10:26
  a message on LinkedIn telling them, hey, do you
• 10:28
  have a job for me? Not at all. We are there to
• 10:32
  build a relationship to make it about them. It's
• 10:34
  more about, hey, I'm very curious about your
• 10:37
  career, about how you got to that point. Would
• 10:40
  you like to speak for 15 -20 minutes in the next
• 10:43
  couple of weeks? I know it's out of the blue.
• 10:46
  I know you don't know me. But happy to reciprocate
• 10:48
  in any way I can. Now I'm going to hear typically
• 10:53
  lots of people telling me, Jeremy, I get lots
• 10:56
  of emails like that every day. And I don't answer
• 10:59
  them. I don't have the patience for that. So
• 11:03
  two mistakes to avoid. Number one, to project
• 11:05
  your behavior. on the behavior of thousands of
• 11:09
  people. Number two, the question is not about,
• 11:15
  are they going to help me or not? The question
• 11:19
  is, if I were to send that same message to 100
• 11:23
  people, how many of them are going to respond
• 11:26
  to me? We got to a framework where you are going
• 11:32
  to get typically a 10 to 20 % response rate.
• 11:36
  And that is okay. We don't need everyone. But
• 11:39
  we need to understand the data and how to use
• 11:42
  that data to get in front of the right people.
• 11:45
  And understanding that not everyone will want
• 11:48
  to help us and that's okay. Not everyone. will
• 11:53
  want to help you. But in my experience, I've
• 11:56
  found the majority of the people, if you reach
• 11:59
  out to them saying that I'd like to pick your
• 12:01
  brain or I think you're doing so well, I'd like
• 12:04
  to speak with you about it. Most people will
• 12:06
  respond in kind and they'll respond to that.
• 12:11
  Sure. I'll give you five or 10 minutes. I'll
• 12:12
  talk about me. That's good. Everybody, everybody
• 12:14
  loves to talk about themselves. Everybody does.
• 12:17
  Okay. How should executives reposition themselves
• 12:21
  in conversations so they're seen as valuable
• 12:25
  contributors, not just candidates? It's not about
• 12:32
  the type of problems you are going to solve.
• 12:38
  It is about the bigger impact you are going to
• 12:43
  have. meaning the second degree and the third
• 12:47
  degree level impact. For example, I had a client
• 12:52
  who was telling me about the fact that he did
• 12:54
  some campaigns, advertising campaigns, and that's
• 12:57
  about it. I said, okay, tell me more about it.
• 13:00
  He said, it was for the Super Bowl. Okay, tell
• 13:02
  me more about it. It was for the Super Bowl.
• 13:04
  It was an ad to promote girls to start going
• 13:07
  into tech. And said, OK, tell me more about that.
• 13:12
  And in the tech world, basically, they started
• 13:15
  running programs to really start recruiting people
• 13:17
  from girls from high school. Said, OK, so what
• 13:21
  you did is not just doing advertising campaigns.
• 13:24
  It's to running campaigns that were viewed by
• 13:27
  millions of people that led to a full trend of
• 13:32
  to a full generation of girls moving their life
• 13:36
  into the tech space. Think about the number of
• 13:40
  lives that you've impacted through those campaigns.
• 13:43
  The impact that you had by doing that, it's about
• 13:46
  building stories that have some myth to it, that
• 13:51
  have some suspense to it, that have something
• 13:53
  aspirational to it. So you want to really think
• 13:59
  that through. It has to be way beyond just the
• 14:02
  technical details of, oh, I generated 20 millions
• 14:05
  of dollars. Okay, nice, but who cares? What is
• 14:09
  sitting behind that? What's the story behind
• 14:11
  that? Very good, okay. What signals tell you
• 14:17
  someone understands how to navigate today's market
• 14:20
  versus someone still relying on outdated approaches?
• 14:26
  What's the what, sorry? What signals tell you
• 14:30
  someone understands how to navigate today's market
• 14:34
  versus... Someone's still relying on outdating
• 14:38
  approaches. Outdating approaches, it's people
• 14:43
  who rely on their resume, on LinkedIn job boards,
• 14:46
  on their network, and that's about it. There
• 14:50
  is something that we call internally with all
• 14:55
  of the people that we help inside of the company,
• 14:57
  the CP way, the career propulsion way. It means
• 15:02
  that you can. take control of your life by being
• 15:05
  proactive about it. You can decide where to go
• 15:09
  by controlling your environment, by building
• 15:12
  the right story that's going to put you in front
• 15:14
  of the right people. People winning in today's
• 15:17
  market are not the ones that rely on, again,
• 15:22
  on whatever job is advertised online. It's the
• 15:25
  ones that are capable to define what they want
• 15:28
  to explore, where they want to go. And based
• 15:32
  on that, building the relationships with the
• 15:34
  right individuals. So it's a very different game
• 15:38
  than what we used to have. Very good. Okay. Where
• 15:44
  do professionals unintentionally limit themselves
• 15:48
  by focusing too much on roles instead of relationships?
• 15:53
  So can you please repeat the last part of the
• 15:56
  question? Where do professionals unintentionally
• 16:00
  limit themselves by focusing too much on roles
• 16:04
  instead of relationships? Why? Where do professionals
• 16:10
  unintentionally limit themselves when they're
• 16:14
  focusing on a role instead of a relationship?
• 16:19
  Typically, they tend to do that when they feel
• 16:21
  safe. They feel safe in their job, so they are
• 16:26
  just going to start doing whatever they believe
• 16:31
  should be done in their job, which is right.
• 16:34
  But in the end of the day, you always want to
• 16:40
  be able to start leaning into building the relationships
• 16:43
  of the next jobs that you are going to aim for,
• 16:46
  because that's a job that's going to take place
• 16:50
  your entire life. That's how you will... always
• 16:53
  have a job even if you're going to be let go
• 16:55
  now if you do the mistake thinking that your
• 16:59
  only job is to do the job instead of okay my
• 17:05
  job is to do the job and to start building the
• 17:09
  right relationships to start landing my next
• 17:11
  jobs it's also a part of the job that's how you
• 17:15
  see so many professionals that are so many that
• 17:18
  are so skilled in what they do but falling to
• 17:20
  the chairs Without a job, because they're being
• 17:23
  let go, without seeing that coming. In the end
• 17:27
  of the day, you always have to be prepared. And
• 17:30
  the best time to be prepared is when you are
• 17:32
  safe. So don't become complacent. That's the
• 17:36
  only thing. It's staying within your comfort
• 17:39
  zone. You have to kind of leave that comfort
• 17:42
  zone a little bit to get ahead or to get more.
• 17:45
  Because if somebody, an executive or somebody
• 17:48
  in that. space, if they don't move out of their
• 17:54
  comfort zone, they'll never get ahead. Oh, very
• 17:58
  much. Okay. How can someone build access to decision
• 18:04
  makers even if they don't currently have a strong
• 18:08
  network? How can someone get access to decision
• 18:14
  makers even though they don't have access to
• 18:18
  them? The easiest way is you don't want just
• 18:25
  to go to any decision maker. You want to go to
• 18:28
  the ones that are going to be qualified to create
• 18:30
  a job for you. For example, if you want to become
• 18:33
  a director somewhere, you are going to want to
• 18:36
  aim for the VPs, not with the other directors.
• 18:38
  That's number one. Really identifying who is
• 18:42
  a decision maker. But on LinkedIn, you can really
• 18:46
  screen. people by title and from there it's just
• 18:53
  about sending them emails you are going to send
• 18:57
  you are going to get a 20 response rate typically
• 18:59
  and most of them will not accept to speak with
• 19:03
  you but many of them will accept to speak with
• 19:06
  you it's just about switching out and understanding
• 19:09
  that failing that rejection is a part of the
• 19:12
  game it's not about you it's about them not choosing
• 19:16
  not to make time for that at that point in time,
• 19:19
  and that's okay. Enough people in the world are
• 19:22
  willing to help. Let's just focus on that. So
• 19:26
  unlimited number of people in that world willing
• 19:29
  to help you creating that next job. It's just
• 19:33
  about being proactive and reaching out to them
• 19:35
  on LinkedIn. Simple message. Hey, curious to
• 19:38
  learn about your career, your journey, what you
• 19:41
  are doing now. Okay, sure. In a competitive and
• 19:46
  uncertain market, what habits help someone stay
• 19:50
  visible and top of mind with the right people?
• 19:55
  What happens is that they will invite you to
• 19:58
  job interviews that are not advertised. We just
• 20:03
  had right now a client. He was a VP at a big
• 20:08
  tech company. And he was just approached by OpenAI.
• 20:14
  because he not showed relationships and he ended
• 20:17
  up getting a leadership job over there because
• 20:19
  he knew about them they knew about him and that's
• 20:25
  pretty much how it works you want to stay top
• 20:28
  of mind all the time that's what's building your
• 20:31
  career in the end yeah i agree a hundred percent
• 20:35
  i agree let's bring this podcast full circle
• 20:39
  If a listener wants to create real opportunity
• 20:42
  in the next 90 days without relying on applications,
• 20:46
  what one networking behavior would you tell them
• 20:51
  to start doing immediately? Reaching out to people
• 20:56
  to start having conversations and being curious
• 20:59
  about them. Don't make it about you. When you
• 21:03
  speak with an executive, with someone, no matter
• 21:06
  who it is, make it about them. They will remember
• 21:09
  you. You will learn about them. That's the way
• 21:12
  to move forward. Don't make it about you and
• 21:15
  start saying, oh, I've done this. No, that's
• 21:19
  not how you are going to build a relationship.
• 21:21
  And at the end of the day, it's a world today
• 21:24
  that is driven by relationships and that is less
• 21:27
  transactional than it used to be just with the
• 21:29
  resumes. we have to learn to communicate communication
• 21:34
  because became really a superpower since there's
• 21:39
  ai and it's either you got it and you learn it
• 21:41
  or you stay behind and you are going to still
• 21:44
  struggling even though it's just about understanding
• 21:48
  that the game shifted a bit so we want to adapt
• 21:52
  you summed it up Perfectly. That's exactly where
• 21:56
  communication is written. Driven from the pandemic,
• 22:00
  I felt was a line in the sand because before
• 22:03
  the pandemic was transactional and post -pandemic,
• 22:07
  it's more relational. So it's exactly what I
• 22:12
  was thinking. Jeremy, this was fantastic. You're
• 22:15
  a great guest. If somebody wants to get hold
• 22:18
  of you, either to be coached by you or just to
• 22:21
  say hi. How would they get hold of you? So either
• 22:26
  on my LinkedIn, you can send their message and
• 22:30
  I will get back to you over there. My LinkedIn,
• 22:35
  just type Dr. Jeremy Gartner or our website,
• 22:39
  careerpropagian .com. Over there, you can connect
• 22:44
  with us and speak with our director of career
• 22:46
  strategy. If you are qualified, you will have
• 22:48
  access to lots of free resources to advance your
• 22:50
  career. So those are the main ways to get in
• 22:53
  touch with us. Great. This conversation is a
• 22:58
  clear reminder that opportunity doesn't always
• 23:01
  come from applying. It comes from being known,
• 23:04
  being trusted and being connected. In a market
• 23:08
  where roles are shifting and competition is increasing,
• 23:11
  relationships become your advantage. People who
• 23:16
  know you, trust you and think of you first are
• 23:19
  the ones who open the doors. Take one step this
• 23:22
  week. Reach out to someone in your network who's
• 23:25
  closer to decision -making than you are. Start
• 23:28
  a real conversation. Access often begins with
• 23:32
  a simple connection. If you found value in today's
• 23:36
  episode, make sure you like, follow, and subscribe
• 23:38
  to Networking Unleashed, building profitable
• 23:40
  connections so you keep getting the best insights
• 23:43
  on networking and communication. And share this
• 23:47
  episode with someone navigating career changes
• 23:49
  or looking for the next opportunity. If you like...
• 23:53
  help strengthening your communication and building
• 23:56
  relationships that create access, visit michelaforman
• 24:01
  .com to learn how I can work with professionals,
• 24:04
  teams, and organizations. So until next time,
• 24:07
  build access, stay visible, and create connections
• 24:10
  that open the right doors. Jeremy, again, thank
• 24:15
  you for coming on my podcast. We made it through
• 24:17
  without any sirens, right? Yeah, right. Okay,
• 24:20
  so I will speak. I will speak with you soon.
• 24:24
  Thank you so much, Michael. Well, hold on, folks.
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• 25:30
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• 25:33
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• 25:36
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• 25:49
  being present. So take what you've learned today,
• 25:52
  get out there and make some meaningful connections.
• 25:56
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• 26:07
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• 26:12
  or my website, foreman .com slash podcasts.