Latest / Entrepreneur Odyssey / Why Relying on AI Without Human Expertise Risks Sabotaging Your Marketing Strategy
Transcript
- Tejneet Selhi: Hello everyone, welcome back to the Entrepreneur Odyssey, the podcast where we sit down with founders, operators and builders to explore the real unfiltered journey of creating something from the ground up. I'm your host Tejneet Selly and today's guest has one of those career stories that genuinely makes you stop in your tracks. She grew up inside her father's entrepreneurial business, spending over a decade helping scaling it from local operation to an international one. She then spent 13 years at Walt Disney World and two years at Universal Orlando Resorts, developing some of the most sophisticated sales and marketing strategies in the world. And then COVID hit and unfortunately, or fortunately, she got laid off, as happens to many. And instead of waiting for the world to reopen, she went in all on her own vision. She runs Purple Ivy Digital Marketing, a boutique agency that helps entrepreneurs and small to mid-sized businesses build holistic marketing strategies that actually drive revenue, not just vanity metrics. Justina Graydon, welcome to the Entrepreneur Odyssey. It's great to have you here. Jensina: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Tejneet Selhi: Me too, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation. I'm going to dig right into the questions. So I'm going to start with your father's business where you spent over a decade and took it internationally. What did those years actually teach about marketing that you've taken into your own business? Jensina: Sure. That's a really great question. You know, it's funny because when you have a family-run business, you employ everybody that's around you. So I actually had a graphic design ⁓ background. went a technical high school. ⁓ So he help getting some things designed, and that's how it started, really building marketing and content. Although, you know, ⁓ that's not what was called back then. It was called, you know, sales slicks or I need an information brochure or things like that. So that's how we started. ⁓ then, you know, I really started seeing a lot of opportunities between the family, me, my father, my mother and my brother. We all different roles ⁓ and I to fall into the marketing and sales role. ⁓ So it gave me an eye opening experience as to like wearing a lot of hats. really diving in and learning marketing, having to learn from the ground up, know, kind of bootstrapping it, finding the information on my own, seeing what works, seeing what didn't. There was a lot of, you know, testing, seeing trial and error between everything. But, you know, as time went on, you know, my skills got sharper we were able to go from a pretty regional type of company to a more international company with clients all over the world. And over those 10 years, I grew from just doing designing to really leading the sales and marketing side of operations. ⁓ that's really where ⁓ found the love of marketing ⁓ how it can really move the needle and impact people and ⁓ of small businesses. Tejneet Selhi: Nice. And I probably should have asked you this first. Could you briefly tell us what that business was? What was the business doing? Jensina: Yeah, we had a, it was a business that worked with seafood processors and in the seafood industry. We were a distributor for a, I say chemical product, but it was a more natural version of the chemicals that they use to clean and to keep everything sanitary. So it was a pretty niche industry. Tejneet Selhi: Okay. Yeah. Jensina: ⁓ because we worked with seafood processors, ⁓ fishermen, it was also a very male-dominated industry. ⁓ I say that to note, say that I really needed to know what I was talking about to be taken seriously, especially back then as a young woman. ⁓ Tejneet Selhi: Thank Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I think many female leaders and entrepreneurs would have that challenge throughout their career. ⁓ So what pulled you away from the family business and towards Disney? Jensina: Mm-hmm. So we hit a recession ⁓ and was less demand for our product because ⁓ budgets were ⁓ We had more high-end product, so sales started dropping. ⁓ And then there also another personal ⁓ circumstance that I really needed to handle, so I decided to step away from the business and then ⁓ go ⁓ towards corporate. And it's funny, because I really didn't intend to be in corporate very long. In my mind, I was like, I'll just be here a year, and then I'm just going to move on, and I'll go on to my next thing. Because I had really been, all the businesses I had worked in had been small businesses at that point. So this was really my first foray into corporate, like with a very big company. And I ended up staying there 13 years. So. Tejneet Selhi: him. Wow, well you must have enjoyed it or at least got something out of it to stay that long. ⁓ And what does marketing at Disney's scale actually look like day to day? Jensina: Definitely. So it's really interesting when you look at a large corporation, know, Disney is a Fortune 50, as is, you know, Universal, especially in the entertainment industry. And there are actually similarities, and there's lessons to be learned and take from corporate. One of the big things is, you know, the roles are very... Tejneet Selhi: Mm-hmm. Jensina: focused. So had a strategy role, but I had people that execute. So you had a social media team, you had a team that did paid ads, ⁓ you had team that would, you know, take that strategy and put it into their own channels. It took a lot ⁓ of communication to sure that you were aligned on all those different strategies. But then, you know, it's interesting because there were times when it's very much like a business where they would come to us and say, hey, we don't have the budget this year, so you're going to have to figure out the marketing on your own and how you're going to do this and bootstrap it ⁓ make sure that you're doing this. ⁓ you know, ⁓ being a being a tourist type of ⁓ industry, ⁓ very susceptible to the ebb and flow of recessions and know downturns and upturns. So there were times where it was just like we don't have the budget for that. We have to divert your budget to another initiative that we know is going to drive more. So you're still responsible for your KPIs. ⁓ It's not like the KPIs go away. And so you would have to figure out how to do that. So I think those are some of the differences and the things I really that really I noticed within ⁓ Tejneet Selhi: Yes. ⁓ you Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Jensina: within the corporate structure. I know you said, you know, within what my day to day was like. And was the other thing. You really have ⁓ a rinse repeat day. It was always something new. The other thing that was the difference was the way we prepared ahead of time. You know, I joke that there was one day where I ⁓ did all four in ⁓ one day. ⁓ I had meetings for Halloween, had meetings for Christmas, I had meetings for spring, and I had meetings for summer. So we went through it all in one day, but it shows that really ⁓ keeping the pulse ⁓ ⁓ our initiatives and all our campaigns, and we were really planning ahead. ⁓ So that's one lesson that I ⁓ took, because when I was with my father's business, we would plan ahead. Tejneet Selhi: feeling. Jensina: but not like that. And a lot of times you felt, I know we felt like we were maybe behind the wheel, like, know, dropped. ⁓ caused that? And so it was more reactive than proactive. Not say that that doesn't happen in corporate. COVID really showed us that. ⁓ So you yeah, you have to be nimble, ⁓ but. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Yes, yes, absolutely. Jensina: When you have that long-term plan, it allows for long-term success. And that's one of the things that I've really taken into my business now, is to make sure that I'm thinking ahead long-term. I'm planning for next year. I have my goals. And how are we achieving those goals? Are we not achieving those goals? What do we have to do to drive that? really making sure I'm keeping an eye over everything overall. Tejneet Selhi: Right, amazing. And having worked with marketers for many, many years, unfortunately I know all too well that it's always the marketing budget that gets ⁓ pulled before any other team. ⁓ Jensina: Yes. Always. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, so I hear your challenge there. And you touched on COVID and actually COVID forced your hand in some ways. And ⁓ I tourism was closed as was many other industries for a while. And unfortunately, you got laid off. And then Purple Ivy suddenly had to become ⁓ your main ⁓ Can you us back to that moment? What made you really take the Jensina: and Tejneet Selhi: plunge into starting your own business, aside from being kind of made to, but I guess not applying for other roles and things like that. Jensina: Right, no, that's a good question. One of the main things was, you know, obviously I live, it's in Orlando, Florida, ⁓ it's tourism heavy. So things here to a screeching halt, as they did everywhere. ⁓ But ⁓ I feel especially here, ⁓ there's just so many within the industry that the market was flooded with people that were looking for jobs. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Jensina: And, you know, as I was going through the, ⁓ you know, the wanted sections and, ⁓ know, indeed and things like that, I found that it was a lot of small businesses. ⁓ I had, when I was at Disney, I was ⁓ strategy work. I didn't know how to run paid ads. I didn't know how to, you know, write content. I had copywriters. I had designers. We had, you know, a creative agency we worked with. But these were the things that small businesses wanted you to learn. And so as I was trying to gain that skill set and learn all those different things and going back to my, remembering my days with my father when I had to learn all those things on my own as well, I kind of came to a realization that I could actually make a business of this. I'm learning it for myself. Why not work for myself and make a business of this and help other small businesses with their marketing? So then I... Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Yeah. Jensina: decided I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna go ahead and do it. And in retrospect, my thought process was, you know, I did it with my dad, how hard could it be? Not realizing he had laid all the groundwork and then brought me in afterwards. So he had gone through all the hard work, right? So it was a little bit of a wake up call for me. And I was like, oh, it can be hard. Tejneet Selhi: Hmm Bye. What? Yeah, yeah. you're right. ⁓ Jensina: Cause it's not easy, right? Tejneet Selhi: Yes. No, no, think any of us who are going through it knows how challenging it can be, ⁓ at the start. Especially at the start, because like you say, it's laying the foundations, it's getting your brand out there, it's getting first few clients through the door. but ⁓ you know, been doing it for a while now. ⁓ So you described, Jensina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tejneet Selhi: During our pre-call, you described having to make a critical shift, and that was moving from being the runner of your business to being the owner of your business. For founders who are stuck deep in the weeds, what does that transition look like? Jensina: I think there's a couple of things that you have to look at or should be looking at when you want to make that shift. I know one of the first mistakes I had made was, and this is ⁓ you don't think of when you first start, because ⁓ ⁓ first starting, you are like, okay, I need to pay my bills. I to ⁓ get money in as quickly as possible. And that's exactly what I did. So I didn't look at my pricing of my services for growth because you need to have that pricing for growth. Another thing that I had to look at was really what my time was worth because I was doing everything at one point. ⁓ And so, I'm not good at everything. Nobody's good at everything. So. ⁓ Tejneet Selhi: Bye, see soon, okay? Jensina: looking at, is it going to be more cost effective to take this task and give it to somebody else who can do it faster and better than me struggling through it and wasting my time where my time would be more valuable and better served over here? And, you know, it always stuck with me. Richard Branson has always said that one of the things that made him successful was he got talented people around him who could do what he couldn't do. Tejneet Selhi: Mm-hmm. Bye. Bye. Jensina: and he let them do what they needed to do. that shift and saying, okay, ⁓ can't do everything. Let find people who know how to do this ⁓ and them do it so that I can ⁓ have time better served doing what I do best ⁓ and doing what I love, which is strategy work. ⁓ So was one of the key things that I had to really shift my thinking about, like ⁓ how is my time worth ⁓ and you Tejneet Selhi: Mm-hmm. rights. Jensina: is am I using it effectively and efficiently? Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, great, great, great advice. And like you say, I think we all get sort of in the weeds of trying to do everything. And especially when you've not got much coming in, you're like, well, I don't want to spend money on agency. I don't want to spend money, you know, until I can see a bit more return. But actually, if you take a step back and think, you know what, what, Do I, you in order to get my name out there, perhaps I do need to outsource my social media or my marketing or whatever the case may be. Yeah, great advice. ⁓ And so for solo businesses out there, a real tension between doing great client work and finding time to grow. ⁓ are you solving that right now for Purple Ivy? Jensina: Right. ⁓ Yeah. That I am doing that, a challenge. ⁓ feel like that is the constant challenge ⁓ every It's so funny because I always say, you know. I digital marketing. ⁓ when I give them my business card, they'll be like, ⁓ I'll follow you on Instagram. I'm like, please don't do that. My Instagram is so horrible. ⁓ My probably needs help. ⁓ And that challenge because I'm always ⁓ so I'm still helping my clients and I'm ⁓ in helping my clients, but I need to focus on my business as well. ⁓ So one the things I've done ⁓ is have Tejneet Selhi: Mmm. Bye. Yeah. Jensina: set aside a day that I dedicate to working on my business. realized that ⁓ I don't work on my business, number one, I'm not gonna keep the funnel full. I need to keep that funnel full because people, go through clients not maybe because you're doing work or things just happen. Maybe they bring a marketing team in the house ⁓ and they take that work on, but there's a myriad of things. I must say I've been super blessed to have my clients long-term. I've worked with them for years. ⁓ And so I don't have a lot of turnover. But I did look at things and I was like, you know, I can't be ⁓ So of the things ⁓ I, of things for this year was to get uncomfortable and, you know, go after the things that ⁓ make me uncomfortable, one of them is networking. Tejneet Selhi: Right. No. You and me both! Jensina: And that's a part of what helps your business grow. And just making sure like ⁓ if it is uncomfortable ⁓ even if you feel like I don't have time for this, I've got to be fulfilling my client's work, ⁓ it is, I've got to be doing the thing that I love doing. You have to carve out that time for your business. Otherwise going you're always chasing, you have that feast or famine type of business model and nobody wants that because that's more stressful than anything. Tejneet Selhi: Bye. Yeah, again, great advice. I'm gonna shift tactics a little bit and talk about AI. our pre-call, you non-marketers are using AI to produce plans that look great but are missing the nuance. How is that changing the competitive landscape for agencies like yourselves? Jensina: Yeah. That is, yeah, we did touch on that and it's something that marketers, I feel, are really diving deep into. I know me, myself, and ⁓ of my colleagues that I've talked to, we have a very love-hate relationship with AI. ⁓ love it because it does make our job go faster. ⁓ We also hate it because, you know, ⁓ had people say to me, Tejneet Selhi: bites. Jensina: Chat GBT can do exactly what you're doing, so why should I pay you for what you do when Chat GBT can do it? The challenge ⁓ that using makes things would take a couple of days before I can run through it in an afternoon. I can really use it and leverage for brainstorming, generating ideas. Tejneet Selhi: you Jensina: The challenge with AI is that it's as great as it is and as far as it's come, it still is a regurgitation of everything that's out there. It's not coming up with original ideas. So I think that that's the other challenge in, you know, when I get that question of like, hey, ChatGPT can do what you do, it's not gonna come up with new ideas. It's not gonna show you how to stand out. It's not going to, you know, really, it can help you. It's a great tool, but it's not at that point where it can do absolutely everything for you. And I think that that is the main difference between, you know, using AI really and then just using it as a crutch, you know. Tejneet Selhi: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's a really good point. And that's what I tell my clients as well, right? Chat GPT is a tool, right? like any other home appliance, right? ⁓ Like chopper. You ⁓ used use a knife and now ⁓ a of us use choppers, right? It's a to help aid you ⁓ in producing you want to produce. ⁓ And I think that's the key thing. You still need that human intervention, the human ⁓ knowledge ⁓ go it. And your expertise, know, ⁓ Jensina: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I love that example that you just used, it's like a tool that you would use in your kitchen. A knife in my hands is not gonna create the same type of food that a knife in a chef's hands would create, right? And you still need to learn AI. Like it's still, there's a huge learning curve there. ⁓ So, you know, there's companies that are going and they're using it for their whole marketing strategy. Tejneet Selhi: Thank Right. Yeah. Jensina: but they don't have the knowledge to create a really great marketing strategy or they may not have knowledge from the marketing side as to what does create a great marketing strategy. ⁓ there's those challenges of it's really great to use and it makes life so much easier, but it's that thing of crap in, crap out ⁓ is gonna really determine how good that output is gonna be. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, I think you've hit the nail on the head. So as you scale Purple Ivy, as you said, you want to get uncomfortable this year and hopefully that uncomfortableness drives scale. And ⁓ you bring on more clients without sacrificing quality, where do you feel AI can in to help you grow? Jensina: That's a really great question. And that's something that I've been really actually looking at lately. I feel that there's a lot of smaller and repetitive tasks within any company, whatever company it is, ⁓ that can really help you with. AI can help you with call automation, getting FAQs out of the way. Tejneet Selhi: Mm-hmm. Yes. For sure. Jensina: you know, using them on a website to answer those initial questions. So many industries, you hear the same question over and over and over again. So getting, having somebody do that, so it's not taking your time. I think it's also, you know, looking at that question again of what is my time worth? ⁓ Because I could be ⁓ you know, I could be doing a lot of day-to-day tasks within my agency that take a lot of time, that are repetitive. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Jensina: that I can now delegate to AI and have AI do that. So now I can focus my time to something else that's going to be more productive and create a higher ROI. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, no, yeah, great, great response there. Okay, let's sort of give some of our listeners a bit more advice, ⁓ when it comes to sort of early on in the journey. So ⁓ you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice when first started your business, what would that be? Jensina: that let me let me let me think about that for a moment Tejneet Selhi: Well, I haven't think about that. It's a layered question. Jensina: Yeah, it is. It's interesting because I'll go back to my history and then I'll answer this. ⁓ After COVID and I started this company, ⁓ got hard. As I was not prepared for, ⁓ I it was gonna be easy. ⁓ I knew there was gonna be challenges, but I thought I knew what I was getting into. But I didn't. So at one point I was like, you know what? Tejneet Selhi: sure. Hmm. Jensina: I think I just want to keep this as a side hustle and go back to corporate. And that way, you know, it'll be a little bit easier for me. And so that's when I went to Universal for two years. About a year in when I was at Universal, I was like, you know what? I really want to go back to moving the needle for small to medium sized businesses as opposed to big corporations. you can really see the effect of the work that you're doing Not that you couldn't before but you were you were you were pretty removed from it You know, it's difficult within a corporation of tens of thousands of employees to say I had a direct effect on the you know The increase in revenue over last quarter, ⁓ you there's ⁓ so people doing that But when I'm working with a business I can say ⁓ this that ⁓ needle I Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Jensina: sat on that question of like, I, why was I not as successful as I wanted to be? And how can I fix that so that I'm successful when I leave my corporate job? And one the biggest things that I realized was my mindset and how much that played into ⁓ number one, peace ⁓ and in business. ⁓ I feel like, Tejneet Selhi: now. Jensina: We live in a time, especially with social media, where you see everybody's either selling or getting rich quick. I scaled my business to one million in six months, and I'm going show you how to do it too. ⁓ And so you can feel like if you're not on that timeline, why am I not as successful as everybody else? And what am I doing that's not working? So I realized, number one, Tejneet Selhi: Bye. Yeah. you Jensina: don't compare myself to others. I'm on my own journey. As long as I'm paying my bills, that's all that matters. ⁓ Number two, the other thing I realized was that everybody their own zone of genius. ⁓ You compare yourself to other people. Tejneet Selhi: Great advice. Jensina: Yes, you're going to be one of a million plumbers, but there's something that you do that's special that will draw your own clients to you and you will resonate with them. being okay with that has a great source ⁓ of for me because I know my people will find me. know that I can, if I to grow a great business, I can do that. ⁓ But if want to keep it small and keep a boutique agency, I can do that too and be successful in both. Tejneet Selhi: Mm-hmm. Jensina: both of those rules. So I think that was a really big eye opener for me. And then the last one, which I know so many, so many entrepreneurs struggle with is imposter syndrome. Trying to get over that and working through that. It's so easy to into that trap of thinking, what are they doing that I'm not doing or Tejneet Selhi: Right. Jensina: do, I as good as they are or even, you know, am I doing the best? And I feel like, especially for entrepreneurs, we feel that. And I don't know if you can relate to this, because we are so passionate about what we do, we have just, we have decided to start a business in what we love. Whether you're a baker, whether you are fixing garage doors, whether you're cutting hair or doing tattoos, it doesn't matter. You're doing what you love. And so we... Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. fight. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Jensina: feel very personal and very guarded about that. And it's so easy to feel like, I'm not doing my best, but you are doing your best. And I always joke, know, there's somebody out there that's making a million dollars that's not even half as bright as you are, so. Tejneet Selhi: Mmm. ⁓ so true. So true. what you said there has hugely resonated with me and I'm sure will with our viewers as well. What with the mindset piece? Because that's, ⁓ know, speak to so many, so many and especially at the beginning of the journey mindset, you're believing in yourself. That I think is part of the reason why some, entrepreneurs just don't make it past the first year. ⁓ Jensina: Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. I agree with you 100%. It's, you know, I, ⁓ know, I did a lot of ⁓ thinking on the year and a half that I had my business and then went back to corporate and it ⁓ ⁓ down to mindset. That was the one big thing. ⁓ And you ⁓ I'm a Xer. We ⁓ were not going to therapy, but ⁓ I... Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Jensina: made the consciousness and I was like, if I'm gonna be successful, I have some things I need to talk some things I need to work through so that ⁓ I don't that self-sabotage, that mental self-sabotage. And you know, ⁓ honestly, it's really I have a mentor and she was the one, I remember her saying that she went to therapy and I was like, you know, ⁓ I'm gonna give this a try and it really worked also super honest with yourself as to ⁓ your limitations are? Where your weaknesses are and the different things that might trigger you Into that's ⁓ that you negative mindset or self-doubt mindset ⁓ really helped Throughout that my journey. discovered that you know, I have ⁓ ADHD And that was one of the things that was really ⁓ inhibiting me. So learning how to manage that and learning techniques that helped me lean into the assets of having ADHD has really helped me be more successful this time I was previously and also be more efficient and effective ⁓ the work that I do. So I think that ⁓ that's of the really things, because I really had to have a come to Jesus with myself. Tejneet Selhi: Right. Yeah. Jensina: before I went on a second time do this full time because I've been a hustler, I've always had a couple of jobs. When I got into corporate, I stopped that. So not that backup to a backup, ⁓ I was I've got to this work. ⁓ And so ⁓ really had have that honest discussion with myself and ⁓ be proactive about challenges. Tejneet Selhi: Mm. Bye. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Gosh, I can speak to you for hours, but I've got to ask you one last question. So obviously you had mentioned you're wanting to get uncomfortable this year. What do you mean by that? And I guess the question's also folded in, is what do you hope the next 12 to 18 months look like? Jensina: No. Right, I mentioned, I've had a lot of my clients long term. So I ⁓ looking things at the end of the year. I don't really in New Year's resolutions, ⁓ but I do in intentions for the new year. Like, ⁓ what do I to improve this year? What's ⁓ something I want to into the next year? That's when I decided on being uncomfortable because I really was in a place where I could just sit and content with my clients. I love them. They're amazing. I'm at a point where, you know, I'm making money, ⁓ you I've got a little team and things are good, but ⁓ wanted number one, grow. want to grow my company within the next year and a half. The goal is to double it. I also realized that I got comfortable being in my own little cocoon because I think with entrepreneurship, it's super easy to be isolated and just one day look up and you're like, ⁓ my gosh, haven't ⁓ to another person besides my team or clients in like three months. So ⁓ more networking ⁓ ⁓ to ⁓ people. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. ⁓ Jensina: getting involved more involved in the community in a proactive way as opposed to a reactive way. Those are the things that ⁓ feel will make me uncomfortable ⁓ really taking myself out of the business. My goal is to ⁓ myself out of the execution and have faith in the people I'm delegating it to and get more into ⁓ running business as a business as opposed to ⁓ a because that it's easy to have a business and still operate it like a solopreneur, right? Yeah. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, absolutely. Um, Oh, really, really great advice. Um, just seeing that. I, like I said, feel like I could talk to you for hours and you know what? I would love to have you back on the podcast many of us that are new founders and listening to the podcast will hopefully want the same things. It'd be great to. Jensina: Yeah. Yeah, that would be amazing. I've absolutely thoroughly enjoyed talking to you. It's been such a pleasure. This has been so much fun. Tejneet Selhi: been so much fun having you on and I'm sure our listeners have felt the same. It's been insightful and ⁓ you know there's many nuggets that landed with me but I think ⁓ that the biggest one you said was moving from being the runner of your business to being the owner of your business. I think that's a shift that many of us solo-preneurs, I with. So what in fact ⁓ if clients to get in touch with you what's the best way? Jensina: Yeah, thank you for asking that. For a marketer, sometimes I don't market myself very well. ⁓ Tejneet Selhi: Well that's what I'm here to help you do. Jensina: So the Cobbler's children have no shoes, right? the best way to get in touch with me is through either my social media, PurpleLiveE Digital Marketing on Instagram, or even Jensina Graydon and LinkedIn. ⁓ also have my website, purpleliveedigitalmarketing.com. Tejneet Selhi: Amazing, amazing. And I'd encourage anyone listening that needs help with their marketing. mean, you've Jensina has worked for some of biggest corporations out there and she's been running a successful business for many, many years. So you'll be in very safe hands. And of course, thank you to our listeners. And if you to learn more about Jensina at Purple IV Marketing, do visit her website as she's just mentioned. And if you've enjoyed today's podcast, please do follow and subscribe so you don't miss any other episodes. Thank you again, Jensina, for being on. Jensina: Thank you will be wonderful. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.