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Editor & Book Development Coach Jennifer Harshman on Principles of Productivity · The Daily Writer

0:05
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Writer.
0:08
SPEAKER_02: Each weekday, we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer: creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: But here on the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with writers, as well as diving into some teaching that helps us apply what we're learning and to prepare for the week ahead.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: For more, you can visit us at dailywriterlife.com.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: Before we dive into this episode, I want to make a correction from yesterday's episode.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: I mentioned a good friend of mine who has a food tour business in Nashville.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: And I said her name was Christine Wheatley, but Wheatley is actually her middle name that's listed on her Facebook profile.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: Her last name is actually Huey.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: But when when I recorded that episode, it was about three in the morning.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: That was New Year's Eve night.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: And uh I just spaced out a little bit.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: So my apologies to Christine for uh my mistake.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: So uh just to kind of clarify, my friend Christine Huey is the owner of a business called Little Local Flavor, which is a Nashville-based food tour business.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: And as I mentioned yesterday on the episode, she also hosts the Five Star Experience podcast, which is excellent, so make sure and check that out.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Now let's get on to the main topic of this episode, which is one of my favorite topics, and that is productivity.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Really, when it comes right down to it, everything about writing success comes down to whether or not we are productive.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: We might have great ideas, we might feel inspired, and we might have some great connections.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: And who knows, we might even have a publishing contract or a contract for multiple books.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: But if we don't actually produce the work, if we don't actually get it done, nothing else really matters.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm really excited that my good friend Jennifer Harshman is here to give us some tips on becoming more productive in our writing and our business.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: Jennifer is the owner of Harshman Services, and you can find her website at Harshmanservices.com.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Jennifer is a successful and well-known editor, author, ghostwriter, and business owner.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: And she's also the editor of the book called Find a Real Editor, Avoiding the Posers and Scammers.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: And this book is a very helpful guide to evaluating editors for your writing.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: Because let's be honest, there's a lot of weirdos and hacks out there, people who say they're going to do a good job editing your book or helping you in some other way, but they're eager to take your money, but they don't actually do anything of value.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: So check out Jennifer's book.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: That'll be a massive help to you as you are searching for good editors and other people in your life to help you with your book projects.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: In this conversation, Jennifer walks us through four obstacles to productivity, which are procrastination, perfectionism, pessimism, and paranoia.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: And she also walks us through several Ps that we need to put into practice.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: And these include purpose, planning, persistence, and others.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: And I honestly can't think of any writer who would not benefit from Jennifer's words of wisdom.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, let's get right into the conversation with my good friend, Jennifer Harshman.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, Jennifer, I am uh glad that we're here to talk about writing your book, both starting and finishing, because there's lots of points along this whole process that people can get hung up.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: And you sent me some thoughts on some obstacles to productivity and obstacles to getting your your book either started or finished, but also some positive aspects of it that we need to be doing.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: So it's things to not do and things to do.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: So I'm glad that you're here to help us out with this.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: So thanks so much.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for having me.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I always have a great time when I come and talk to you.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's good.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: That's one of my goals is to make this fun for the audience and for myself and for the guests.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: So if we're all having fun, then it's fun all around.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like an audio party, I guess.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: Somebody should trademark that audio party.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: It sounds like an app.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: Maybe somebody will make that.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: So let's dive in here.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Let's start out with some obstacles to productivity.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: And the four things that you listed, it's almost like you're reading my mind because I relate to all these things.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: But the one in particular that I want to get to really importantly is paranoia, because I'm curious what you mean about that one.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure that I've experienced it, but I'm not curious to see where that goes.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: But let's start off with the first P in terms of an obstacle to productivity, and that is procrastination.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: What's that all about, and how can we stop procrastinating?
4:41
unknown: Okay.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Procrastination is also about the second one, which is perfectionism.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: So people will let a lot of mind junk get in the way.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: We will make things bigger than they are in their minds.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Um we will be worried about how it's going to turn out and what will people think, and all of those types of things that will prevent us from getting started.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: So we will do other things that will ease that pain in the short term.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: We will go and do some laundry.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: We will have a conversation with a friend that has nothing to do with any of our goals or even furthering that relationship, really.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: It's just some chit-chat to kill time and have um have that thing be in the background just a little bit longer.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: So procrastination is the big one that a lot of people deal with, and not just with their books, but you know, with a lot of things that we know we really should take care of in life.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: We just don't want to deal with it yet.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: So we put it off.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that's because we associate the thing that we're putting off with pain?
5:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, if you have to have a hard conversation with somebody, you know, we're recording this around the holidays, and this will release in a few weeks.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: I don't remember the date exactly, but you know, around the holidays is a time when a lot of families get together, not so much this year, I guess, but it's a time when there's whenever there's a lot of family drama.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of hard conversations, a lot of hurt feelings, a lot of awkwardness among relationships this time of year.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: So we avoid those because they're painful.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Is there something about writing a book many times that people associate with pain that that we avoided?
6:22
SPEAKER_02: What what what's going on there with that?
6:24
SPEAKER_00: It feels immense.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: It is a large undertaking to write a book, even if it's a short book.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's okay to acknowledge that, but what we do is we let it grow in our minds so that it feels like it's insurmountable.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: And if something feels so huge, well, of course it's reasonable to want to put that off.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: What is the fear that we associate with it?
6:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's it seems like there's sort of the task side of it where we think this is a large task.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm having trouble breaking it down in my mind.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: But there's also you mentioned the fear of what people will think.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: What do you think is going on there in our minds?
7:04
SPEAKER_02: What is it that we're afraid of in terms of what people will think of us if we put a book out there?
7:09
SPEAKER_00: We're afraid of rejection and negative judgment.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: And that is a common human thing.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: When you write a book, it is it's part of your soul that you are exposing to the world.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: So you're taking something, your heart and your mind, and you've you have put so much into this, and it's really important to you.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's difficult to share that with people in the first place.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: And it's really difficult to share that with people if you have in your mind that there's a pretty good chance that you're going to be criticized, that you're going to receive negative reviews, that maybe someone you mention in your book won't like it.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: There's just so many things that that pop up in our minds about the whole thing.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's it's funny you mentioned that because um some of my listeners don't know this, so that I'm I ghost right on the side.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: And uh a client book that I just finished a couple months ago.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, the client was talking about a lot of personal things in the book, and we put the book on Amazon, and somehow somebody in her family, her extended family, was very offended by some things that she said.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: Of course, I I wrote the book for her, so I I didn't see anything, you know.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: Like we very carefully vetted the book and tried to make it so that nobody would read it and go, okay, I'm gonna sue you, or I'm gonna be really upset.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: But nevertheless, this person was really upset and they put a this really nasty review on Amazon.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: So it's those kind of things that just scare the daylights out of us sometimes, even though that kind of thing is relatively rare, wouldn't you say?
8:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: And you know, it is a real fear, and sometimes those things do happen.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: So it's reasonable that people are thinking about these types of possibilities.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: The key is trying to get around them, over them, through them, um, dealing with that block is paramount to progress.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: Now you've had your your hands in how many books would you say in your career have you had something to do with whether it's writing, ghostwriting, editing, developmental editing, anything that you have touched on a book, how many estimated books would you say?
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I stopped counting some time ago, but we're somewhere in the vicinity of 300.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say it's gotta be in the hundreds somewhere at this point.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: So of those, let's say 300 books, how many of those books I'm I'm getting, and I have a point with this little exercise.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: How many of those books would you say in your judgment were truly pretty bad books?
9:54
SPEAKER_02: Like really badly written, badly conceived.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: And I'm guessing a small percentage, but I'm just curious.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Um since I have the ability to, you know, I have the privilege to take the work that I want and reject what I don't want, it is a pretty low percentage of what I would say was truly bad to begin with.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Um I I would say your your ballpark's pretty good, probably about 10%.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: So of those 10%, and of course you know who those authors were.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Did you did your opinion of those author of those people change because their book was not good?
10:32
SPEAKER_00: No.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: Um I think that authors who seek out help are wise.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: They make good decisions when they do that.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: So I respect the authors who come to me.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: And my my point with asking all that is to make the point of first of all, if somebody writes a book, it's there's a low chance it's gonna be a truly bad book.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: And even if it is, the people who judge you negatively or think worse of you is gonna be very, very, very small.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: But but yet all of us deal with this fear of what are people gonna think if I put this out into the world?
11:09
SPEAKER_02: So here I am.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm talking to a professional editor yourself who's been doing this a long time, and yet, you know, what you're saying in terms of how you think about potentially bad books doesn't align with the reality that's going on in our heads many times.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: So it's just funny how we create this kind of thing that's out there that doesn't really match with reality.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: It's totally understandable though.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: It is, it is, and I I get it, I totally get it.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: Let's move on to um another obstacle to productivity, which is pessimism.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm a typically a positive person, you're a very positive person, but all of us can get pessimistic at times.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: What's going on with this pessimism attitude that we can sometimes have?
11:57
SPEAKER_00: A lot of self-talk.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: So um I don't know why I even bother trying to write this because it's not coming out right.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Or man, I'm supposed to sit down and write 500 words today because that was my goal, but I know it's gonna be so hard.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be like pulling teeth, you know, a lot of those things that run through people's minds.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: That's where, and it will tend to be negative.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's where the pessimism comes in, is it's all occurring in their minds.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: Usually they're not saying those things to other people, and it's not necessarily coming out in their writing, it's just preventing them from doing the writing.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: Do you think it's possible for a person with a who is a self-identified pessimist, which actually I'm not even sure most pessimistic people even are self-aware enough to really know that?
12:49
SPEAKER_02: But let's say they are.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: Is it possible for a person who has basically a negative outlook on life?
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Is it possible for them to really change?
12:58
SPEAKER_02: And if so, how would they go about doing that?
13:01
SPEAKER_00: It is.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, there are a lot of good books out there on choosing happiness, changing your mindset, things like that.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: And I would recommend reading one or two of those.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: You can also do a really simple exercise where you just sit down and write out those negative thoughts that occur to you on a frequent basis and you know, make a list of them down one side of the page and then on the other side of the page.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Write something that counteracts that I call it speaking truth to that statement because you know that statement is not true.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: It may sometimes happen, it may sometimes, you know, come to be or may sometimes be true, but it's not the truth.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: And you can argue with it, you can counteract that and say, you know, whatever it is, say pretty much the opposite of it.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, speak truth to it.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: And then that's a habit that you can build because pessimism is a mindset.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: It is a habit that a person has gotten into for whatever reason over the course of their lives.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: And it is a habit that they can change if they want to.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: See, that right there is worth the whole price of intermission, folks.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh at least it is for me.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: Pessimism is a habit that you can unlearn.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: It's a habit that you learn, but you can unlearn it.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: See, that right there is an insight that the vast majority of negative people they don't even they don't even realize that it's a habit that they've learned, but they can unlearn it.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: That's really powerful.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: Wow, I love that.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: Now let's go on to this last P here, which is paranoia.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: And I'm really curious what this one's all about.
14:37
unknown: Okay.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: So paranoia, part of it, we we hit on it a little bit about people are going to think bad things about me or they're going to judge my book harshly, or you there's um an element of paranoia in those thoughts.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: But also, most authors are scared that their editor or someone else is going to steal their work, make it their own, and cheat them and things like this.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: So that's one of the things that I like to address with authors in my first conversation is to let them know that they retain the copyright.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Like this is your work.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm just helping you with it.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: Most authors will ask in the in the first conversation something to the effect of, you're not gonna steal my book, are you?
15:24
SPEAKER_00: And um, it is kind of a laughable thing, but it's also understandable.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, you put too much time and energy into it.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: And it would be very scary if that happened.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, it would be very bad if that happened.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I assure authors that no, I do not.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: I keep everything confidential.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: I have a standard contract.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: And also, it would be a career ender for an editor to steal someone's work.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, word travels fast.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: It would not take much to completely put them out of business if they were to do something so foolish and wrong as to steal an author's work.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: But what why would I mean, not that the vast majority of editors or anybody else would do this, but even if you did quote unquote steal somebody's book, what would you even do with that?
16:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, would the author maybe be afraid that you would publish it under your own name or something like that?
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's the fear.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: That's really, really crazy.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: But if you're if you're inexperienced and haven't been through this process before, there's all kinds of ideas that maybe you have.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: You know, you hear stuff in the news about you know, Taylor Swift lost the rights to her intellectual pro her masters of her recordings of her first six albums, and you know, people are very afraid of losing their property.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: They are um so but those are like the extreme cases, right?
16:43
SPEAKER_00: And when it's something that you have put so much into, you want to guard it.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, it's it is a reasonable fear.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's why I address it right away to let them know that it's not a danger at all.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: That's I think that that shows a lot of empathy as well for clients who may be new to this and you you understand their fears up front, which I think is cool.
17:09
SPEAKER_02: You know, instead of just saying I'm here to kind of do the work and you're out in the cold with the rest of it, but you're kind of there for your clients emotionally, which I think is an important quality of an editor or of anybody doing client work.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: So let's move on to several of these positive P's.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: And again, these are from um is it okay to say that you're working on some stuff related to this concept?
17:32
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I don't want to put you on the spot and say Jennifer's writing this book called da da da, and then maybe you change your mind or it changes direction.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: So we'll put that out there into the world.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: First announced on the Daily Writer Podcast.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: Yes, you heard you heard it here, folks.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I'm sounding like a 1960s like boxing announcer, but anyway.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: You're so much fun.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I guess I don't know what I've been reading lately.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: So um, so there are several of these positive P's.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: In fact, you've got eight of these listed, but I want to focus on four of these.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: And the first one is purpose, which sounds like a very kind of nice or benign concept, but really this is extremely powerful.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: So if you can lead us through why purpose is so important, that would be fantastic.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Everything that we do needs to have a purpose.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: And if you're going to put a book out into the world and it doesn't have a purpose or you haven't defined it well, your book is not going to be very effective.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: So I want you to not waste your time.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: I want you to make the most of the time and effort that you put into what you're writing.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: So if you can clarify the purpose, like what is this book supposed to do?
18:42
SPEAKER_00: How will it help readers?
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Who is it for?
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Why should they read this?
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Just ask yourself all those types of questions to figure out exactly what your book is meant to do.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: What is its purpose?
18:55
SPEAKER_02: What if you don't know what your book's purpose is?
18:57
SPEAKER_02: And I talk to a lot of writers, and I myself have uh not so much these days, but in the past I felt this way where you have this impulse to write.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: You maybe even feel this at times a spiritual calling to write.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: Some people would would phrase it like that.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: But you have no idea about any of the other stuff.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: You just know that you want to write.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: How can you take that impulse and start to maybe craft some ideas that then have some sort of defined purpose to those?
19:25
unknown: Okay.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, keep writing.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: So develop that daily writing habit and continue to do that, even if you don't know where this particular piece is going yet.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, ask yourself all those types of questions.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: So better questions get better answers.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I want you to ask yourself, who is this for?
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Who was I put on this planet to serve?
19:50
SPEAKER_00: What difference is it that I'm supposed to make while I am here?
19:55
SPEAKER_00: Different questions like that will help you to narrow down what your book's purpose is.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: And then you can also say, if I were to say one sentence about this book and what it's supposed to do, what would that sentence be?
20:12
SPEAKER_02: That's powerful.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: That's really, really powerful.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: It kind of forces you to land on one idea, which is great.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: If you've got seven or eight ideas that don't really congeal into a book, it kind of forces you to make that decision, which is really hard because it feels like you're you're you're ditching a lot of other good ideas, but you've got to have that one single idea for the book to be cohesive.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: And I think if you start a file, start a document, um, you can name it spare parts or you know, things I'm going to use someday.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: You can name it anything you like.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Put those other ideas in there.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: That way, you're you're telling your brain, yes, this is important.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Yep, gotcha.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: I understand.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: You gave me something and it's important.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: And I have to focus on one thing.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna put it over here for now.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: I can always come back to it later.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: And that will help to settle down that anxiety, anxiety that we feel about letting those ideas go to waste.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: Don't you think there is, I just not realized this.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: This is a big reason why I do these interviews, is because I learn a lot of stuff.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: Really, podcasting is just my way to get coaching from people who are smarter than me.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: That's really what it boils down to.
21:25
SPEAKER_02: So there's kind of this idea where there's two parts of this creative process in our brain where there's one side that's like the really creative part.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like a class of second graders where everybody's going, me, me, me, me, me, teacher, me, me, me, and they all want attention.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: But that doesn't mean that's the project we should focus on right now.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: And then there's the part where you you consciously choose what you're going to work on, and then you do all the productivity work and the focus to get it done.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: But in the meantime, you have all these ideas screaming for attention in your brain if you're a creative person.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: So it sometimes it's hard to calm down that class of second graders.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: In your brain, you know, because you oh, there's another idea, there's another idea, there's another idea.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: That's difficult, but yeah.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: And so if you capture them, then you can just tell yourself, it's okay, it's over here.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: I I have it safely contained.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Come back to it later.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, coming up with lots of ideas, like some people call it shiny object syndrome or squirrel, um, that is one of the ways that we self-sabotage.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: And so, like you were talking about earlier about pain, and we want to avoid things that are painful.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: So if we're getting into something and we're we're in the part where we need to be persevering, we need to be doing the writing, but it's getting a little difficult, or maybe I'm a little bored, or golly, I've been sitting here for a while.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, great idea.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: This thing over here, I have another idea.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: It's a way that we can distract ourselves and self-sabotage.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: So if you know that, and you know when you sit down to work, your brain's gonna cook up a whole bunch of new ideas.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Then all you have to do is have that notebook or post-it note stack or ever note file, anything that you have where you're gonna keep all of those spare parts and ideas, and you just take a second to capture it and then focus back on your work.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: Now, what do you personally use to store all your ideas?
23:18
SPEAKER_00: This book.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you you use a paper notebook where you just kind of your dumping ground for ideas.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I can slip it into my bag if I need to go somewhere.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: I can carry it with me.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, I also have plenty of post-it notes at the ready.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes um I will use those for something that I know I will get to later in that day so that I don't need to um keep that permanently.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: It might be just a quick note of something that I need to do.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: I'll jot that down, stick it on my computer monitor, and then I can see that I can take care of it by the end of the day and throw it away.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: So I've got to show you this.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: You might like this.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: I bought this um on Amazon um a couple weeks ago.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: So this is a I don't remember the company that makes this.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: Now, obviously, listeners can't see this.
24:05
SPEAKER_02: This is like a it's a looks like a little book, but it's post-it notes in it.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: So you open it up and it's got all these different sizes, like these little flags and a couple different sizes.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: This was like seven or eight dollars or something.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: I was so excited when I got this in the mail, and my wife and my son were going, Why are you excited about post-it notes?
24:25
SPEAKER_02: Like what are you know, are you having a hard day or what's going on with you mentally?
24:30
SPEAKER_02: But I was excited because it's it's just a place to keep all the different sizes of post-it notes in one place.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, our we writers like our post-it notes.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we do.
24:40
SPEAKER_02: Now you mentioned something a second ago that I think was a really great idea, which is you've got to keep on writing, and in your writing is where you find clarity about it.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: You didn't phrase it that way, but that's essentially what you were saying.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: That is such an important idea that you can't just stand still and expect everything to get solved.
25:01
SPEAKER_02: You have to take action, even though you're unsure of where it's going, you've got to keep moving.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: And in that moving is where you find clarity.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point, Kent.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's move on to uh the second P that we want to get into, which is prioritization.
25:17
SPEAKER_02: What's going on with that one?
25:19
SPEAKER_00: That's where we have a whole lot of ideas and we don't know which one is best or which one is most important or which one's going to have the greatest impact, and we can't choose.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: So we get into that paralysis and we we look a little bit like a deer in the headlights, and we don't make any forward motion at all because we don't know which one is the most important.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: So prioritizing is really important if you want to be able to pick one and get started with it.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: So, how do you do that?
25:47
SPEAKER_02: Let's say you've got four book ideas that that you want to write.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure we will not have a pub have a public confession time here.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's no priest on this call, but if there were, maybe we would have a public confession, at least I would.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't know if you want to or not, but you'd be welcome to.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, we would have a confession time of we've all kind of done this where we've gotten stuck trying to decide between projects.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: But what has been successful for you, both for yourself, but also helping clients think through here's a range of projects that you could work on, but here's maybe how you should choose the priority.
26:23
unknown: Okay.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, there is a tool that I've used um through site build it.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: It's called Niche Choose It.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: And it is basically a um a fancy spreadsheet, and it's nice and pretty, but you can put in different your different projects that you're thinking about, and you can put in the different factors that are important to you and how heavily you would weight each one of those, and then it will it will put them in order for you.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: So you can look at different factors like that.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: You can use a tool like that, or you can just do it manually on your own.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: You could also ask yourself, what is your low-hanging fruit?
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Like which one could I produce the swiftest?
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Which one is going to be something that I can do, get off my plate, and then move to the next one?
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Or you could look at impact and you could say which one is going to um serve the most people in the deepest way.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: So there are different factors that you can look at.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: I would say to pick one and then look at each one of those potential projects through that lens.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: And recently um Elizabeth Pugliesi helped me with with that because I was looking at several projects.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: Which one should I do?
27:44
SPEAKER_00: Where do I start?
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And she said that I am at the point in my career where I have um I have earned the right to value my time more than I used to.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: And so she said, I might look at which project will help me save time over the long run and which one will lead to, you know, like um, are you familiar with the term keystone?
28:13
unknown: Yeah.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Like if you have a keystone goal or a keystone project.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: Makes everything much easier.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it helps other things to become easier or or maybe even make them unnecessary at all.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: So that when I looked at that um through that lens, that helped me make that decision right then in the moment when I was having that conversation with Elizabeth.
28:34
SPEAKER_02: See, that is such an important concept of doing one thing that then unlocks a bunch of other doors.
28:40
SPEAKER_02: And so many times we focus on things that that don't unlock anything.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they create more doors for us or create more obstacles for us.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a that's a powerful insight.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: I gotta give that some more thought.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: I love that about how that how does that apply to my life?
28:54
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's that's really powerful.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, the next P is planning.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: And I know you are in when I think of productivity and planning, I think of Jennifer Harshman, hands down, like you're the expert with this stuff.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, talk to us about how to plan a book and how how that process maybe should work.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I do with my clients that I don't know of anyone else doing, and that I really love doing because it's so powerful and effective for them is using keyword research to outline their book.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: So this is not something that would work for fiction necessarily.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: It's more the nonfiction books.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: But I use the data, like what are people searching for?
29:42
SPEAKER_00: What do they look for on Amazon?
29:45
SPEAKER_00: What questions are they asking on Quora and other sites?
29:50
SPEAKER_00: What is it that they are looking for in a book?
29:53
SPEAKER_00: And then those can be the large chunks that go into that author's book, usually chapters or sometimes parts.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: And planning it is the key, even for people who are not outliners.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Like when I was in school, I would write my paper and then I would write the outline.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: I did it out of order because that's the way my brain worked.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: I could not do that left brain linear thinking to do Roman numeral one, ABC, Roman numeral two.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Forget it.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: So I did it the other way around.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: And I learned that that is a holistic brain, a right-brained type of thinking to look at the whole and then go look for the patterns.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: And so I started using mind maps to help me plan out different projects, different people's books, things like that.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: And before I start the mind maps, I do keyword research.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: So keyword research goes into a mind map.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: The mind map ends up becoming that Roman numeral ABC outline, but it brings in that right-brained thinking and the visual element, and it helps because people need to think that way.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: It adds an extra step, but it's so much more effective.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: And once you have it planned, can't your book will practically write itself.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: I think we need to do a we need to do to do a whole separate episode on mind mapping because that's a really powerful concept that I've never explored on this podcast.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, that's that's really good stuff.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: Great.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: So, how would you do that keyword research?
31:28
SPEAKER_02: Let's say if I wanted to write a book on um I'm trying to think of a random topic here that I might on uh let's say if I was your client and you were helping me to do some keyword research research on auto repair or auto maintenance, what are some tools that you would use?
31:45
SPEAKER_02: You mentioned Quora and some other stuff.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: How would you specifically go about doing keyword research on, let's say, auto maintenance?
31:51
unknown: Okay.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: I would open a tab to each of the different sites that I'm looking at using and just go through systematically one at a time and make use of that tool.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: I love site build it.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: They have a brainstormer that pulls all sorts of data and it's based on Word Tracker, but it goes beyond what Word Tracker does.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: So I would use each one of those tools and I would compile all of it in an Excel spreadsheet.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: And then I would sort that data by the demand, which is how many searches are being conducted on a monthly basis.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: Demand highest to lowest.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: That tells me what is being asked about or searched for the most often.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: And usually that makes your that's good for part one, part two, or chapter one, chapter two, things like that.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: So that would tell you some things to add into the outline of your book, or that would tell you more of the title or the concept or all the above.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: It can.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: It can um you can get so granular that you can use the keyword research even for your subheadings.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: So if you just go through and and that data, you can organize your entire outline.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: And it can also show you holes in your own thinking.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: So let's say you know a lot about cars and you know that you need metric tools for such and such vehicles and um for vehicles before that date, so many are um, you know, US-based.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: You know that.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: But let's say you don't know about certain types of tools within those um two divisions.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: If you look at all of the questions people are asking, you're like, oh, oh yeah, I didn't even know about that, or I completely forgot about that.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: I definitely need to include that in my book.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: So we can identify things that are missing from our mind map and from our outline when we look at the keyword research data.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: That's genius.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: That's really genius.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: And don't you think that's a good way to serve people as well?
33:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, like the the the real creative types will look at that and go, you know, that doesn't sound very creative, and I kind of want to explore and and do all that stuff.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: But there is an element where our writing is supposed to be serving people.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: And if we know what questions people are asking, that's that's not killing our creativity, that's actually helping us to serve them better.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: So it's not like it's subtracting from the value of our book, it's actually adding to it.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: And there is freedom within constraint.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: That's a concept that a few years ago, I when that was first presented to me, I thought that was oxymoronic.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: I could not understand how that could be true until I explored it a little bit more.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: And the a good example is if an art teacher says, Okay, okay, class, draw a picture.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Then a lot of them would be paralyzed because they don't know what to draw, what it should look like, how big should it be, any of those details.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: But if the teacher says, draw a horse, then that is within constraints.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: Now the horse might be different colors, it might be different sizes.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: There's still a lot of room for creativity and there are still a lot of options, but there is constraint.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: And then that lets people go ahead and get started and feel more confident in what they're doing.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: And the truth is that everything has constraints.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, if if if you say, hey, Kent, can you write me a pop song?
35:25
SPEAKER_02: It's probably gonna be three and a half minutes long, it's gonna be structured a certain way, it's gonna sound probably a certain way for 2021 or whatever it is.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: Architecture, you know, has constraints.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh, movies have constraints, usually.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Everything has constraints.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: So it's not like we writers are special, we also work within constraints, which then channel our creativity.
35:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay, this last P uh that I want to look at is persistence, which is where a lot of this we even if we do all this other stuff, if we don't persist, we're gonna lose steam and we're not gonna get this book done.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: So, how can we be more persistent?
36:04
SPEAKER_02: And maybe a better question is why do we why aren't we persistent?
36:07
SPEAKER_02: Why do we give up halfway through this these projects?
36:12
SPEAKER_00: One reason that we give up halfway through is because we become bored with it.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: So creative types tend to get bored with things pretty quickly.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: And a book is a pretty substantial project, it's not something you're going to write in one or two days.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: You might get a draft done within a few days, but it's not going to be finished and ready to go.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: You're still gonna have to work on it.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: So um boredom sets in, and of course, all of that self-talk, and we get we just get tired.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: So um shiny objects pop up and it's more attractive to go and do something else.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: And oh, you know, we can we'll justify it.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: We'll always we'll come back to it later.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: So um keep in mind the ABCs of writing apply, but to chair.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: So every day or at least as often as you can.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: Now I know sometimes a kid is gonna get sick, your pet needs to go to the vet, something can derail you for the day.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: But if it's happening more than once a week, that's not really life happening.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: That's a habit that you're building.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: So as much as you can, make sure that you get in your writing time and um make it something that is really achievable.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: So I am a big fan of atomic habits, uh, the book and the concept.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Make it something that you can do that's bite-sized, where when you look at that goal, you think it's ridiculously small.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: You think, Jennifer, how on earth am I ever gonna get my book done if I only write two minutes every day?
37:42
SPEAKER_00: Now, what I'm saying is not stop at two minutes, but set the bar at two minutes.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: Set a goal for I'm gonna write for two minutes every day.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: If you write for 10, great.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: If you write for half an hour, beautiful.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you go beyond that, it's perfectly fine and you'll get more progress.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: But at the very least, you want to hit that two minutes and it will help you with that habit of persistence, and it will also help you to feel success.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: And when we feel success, we want to do more of that thing.
38:17
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: That is that is so perfect, and really that's the whole idea behind this podcast is doing something on a daily basis, maybe not every single day of the week.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking like Monday through Friday, you know, really.
38:28
SPEAKER_02: But seven days a week is even better if you want to do that, but at least on the weekdays, and even something really, really small that we do can be really powerful.
38:38
SPEAKER_02: Don't don't we so many times as creative people and as writers, we set ourselves up for failure because we have these monstrous goals, like I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this big massive thing.
38:49
SPEAKER_02: And we make it impossible for us to succeed every day.
38:52
SPEAKER_02: But like you said, if we do something small where we can win and feel like a success every day, man, that's so much better emotionally and mentally for us.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it definitely is.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, this is probably a good place to wrap it up.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: This has been amazingly helpful.
39:08
SPEAKER_02: I've learned a bunch of stuff and I've taken a bunch of notes, some of which might be legible, I think.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully we'll see.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: But this has been great.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you um coming on the show and sharing.
39:20
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate your knowledge about productivity and systems and editing and all these different things.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: So it's always a pleasure to have you on.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: It is always a pleasure to be here.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely happy to help you with anything and to help serve your audience in any way that I can.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: How can our listeners get in touch with you and if they want to contact you about editing or any other services that you offer?
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Um harshmanservices.com is my main website at this point.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: And my email is jennifer at harshmanservices.com.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: And you also have a free download for listeners, correct?
39:55
SPEAKER_00: I do.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have a couple of things on my site now.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: There's content management and repurposing 101.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: And then also find a real editor, avoiding the posers and scammers.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Both of those are available for free download on my site.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: And your email list also you send out an email.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: Is it I think it's every week, correct?
40:15
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
40:16
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I didn't think it was every two weeks.
40:18
SPEAKER_02: So I do want to encourage everybody to go to Jennifer's site and get on her email list because your emails honestly are like a college course in writing and editing.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean, seriously, they're just really, really substantial.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: It's really good stuff.
40:31
SPEAKER_02: So many email lists, it's just kind of like fluff, and you can tell they didn't put a lot of work into it.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: But I know you have poured your heart and soul into giving immense value to subscribers.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, everybody go there and subscribe.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: It's really good stuff.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for saying that.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: You you honor me.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kent.
40:47
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
40:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks, Jennifer.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: This has been a blast.
40:51
SPEAKER_02: Hey, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jennifer.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of excellent takeaways from this conversation, and honestly, it's kind of hard to boil it down to just one.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: I know I say that all the time after these interviews on my podcast, but I feel like my guests bring so much wisdom and I learn so much from them that honestly, it is really difficult sometimes just to boil it down.
41:11
SPEAKER_02: I used to do three, three or four takeaways.
41:14
SPEAKER_02: Now I just do one just to keep things simple.
41:16
SPEAKER_02: So here's my single biggest takeaway from this episode, and that is you cannot let perfectionism win.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: You cannot let perfectionism win.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: That's been a huge struggle of mine over the years, and chances are pretty high that you have struggled with it as well.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: So I encourage you to let go of the need to be perfect.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: And this is the point in the podcast episode where we're gonna cue, let it go from Disney's movie Frozen.
41:40
SPEAKER_02: Actually, I'm not gonna do that, but it is kind of appropriate because we just need to let go of this perfectionism.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: You're never gonna be perfect, and that's not the goal anyway.
41:50
SPEAKER_02: Think of all the great works of art that have really obvious flaws.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: And the vast majority of great works of art have at least one flaw of some kind.
42:01
SPEAKER_02: Let me give you just one super quick example.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: So, one of my favorite all-time movies is The Godfather.
42:07
SPEAKER_02: It is eminently quotable and it's an amazing movie for so many reasons.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, the book is really amazing, also.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: It's not for kids at all, but the book is really, really good.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: So, just to give you one example from The Godfather, there is a scene in the later half of the movie where Sonny Corleone, who's played by James Kahn, he hunts down his brother-in-law Carlo, because he beat up his wife Connie.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: And Connie is Sonny's sister, and Connie is kind of like a he has a bad temper, he's a hothead, and he's known as being very protective of his sister.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, of his sister, Connie.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: So they go and head, they have this fight in the street, and Sonny throws this punch at Carlo, but because of the camera angle, you can see clearly that James Con missed by at least a foot.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: Now, obviously, they're making a movie, they're not going to really punch each other, but you can see this was such an obviously fake punch that it's it's humorous.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a cool fight scene, I guess, but that is just an enormously glaring mistake in this movie.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: They probably should have reshot that, but they didn't for whatever reason.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Now, the funny thing is that every time I watch The Godfather, which is somewhat frequently, as many people do, every time I see that scene, I sort of laugh at it, but it doesn't detract from the greatness of the movie.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: In fact, I find it kind of endearing because it reminds me that filmmaking and storytelling and art is a very human and at times a very flawed endeavor.
43:37
SPEAKER_02: So I guess my feeling is, hey, if The Godfather can contain very obvious flaws like that and still be an amazing work of art, you know, there's some room that you and I should be able to give ourselves.
43:49
SPEAKER_02: There's some grace we need to give ourselves for not being perfect as well.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's my takeaway from this episode, and man, what an important lesson for us.
43:58
SPEAKER_02: We could do a, gosh, we could do a whole podcast series on perfectionism, but I'll leave it at that today.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: We've got to let go of that need to be perfect because we're never gonna reach it.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: It's not an attainable goal, and and it's not even a good goal anyway.
44:10
SPEAKER_02: The goal is to make great art, not to make perfect art.
44:15
SPEAKER_02: Computers make perfect art, but humans make great art.
44:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, I want to give a huge thank you to my very special guest, Jennifer Harshman.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: Make sure to check out her book called Find a Real Editor, Avoiding the Posers and Scammers, as well as check out her website, which is harshmanservices.com.
44:33
SPEAKER_02: I want to encourage you to first of all go to her website, but second of all, to sign up for her email list because you're gonna get a lot of great writing, productivity, and editing tips that go straight to your inbox.
44:45
SPEAKER_02: I recently helped Jennifer get set up on a new email marketing service, and I gotta tell you, she's got some really, really good stuff in there, so do not miss that.
44:53
SPEAKER_02: You can also connect with Jennifer on LinkedIn and Facebook, and I will have links to those in the show notes.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: Before I go, I want to ask if you would consider taking a minute or two to leave an honest review of the show in iTunes.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: Those reviews are extremely helpful for reaching new listeners, and I read and I appreciate every single review.
45:15
SPEAKER_02: And also, if you know anybody who would enjoy these episodes, please consider sharing one of them with those folks so they can enjoy it as well.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: For more, you can always visit us at dailywriterlife.com.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much, and I'll see you tomorrow.