Latest / Better Preaching Podcast / BP2 Season 1 Episode 1 – Patrick Lightfoot | Church Planter & Preacher
Transcript
- Frank Weller: I'm Lightfoot. Welcome to the Better Preaching Podcast. Patrick Lightfoot: Hey, thanks for having me, Frank. Appreciate you. Frank Weller: Yeah, man. Let's just dive right in. I want you to tell us a little bit about yourself for our listeners and maybe about the congregation you serve. Just kind of give us the 411. Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah, absolutely. Patrick Lightfoot, I'm the lead pastor church planter at Traverse Christian Church in Windsor, Colorado. We just celebrated a huge milestone, Frank. We just celebrated our 10-year anniversary as a church, which is ⁓ for those who have been a part of church planting and getting past not just the one year, three year, but end our 10 year, it's literally an act of God. And we are so thankful for where we're at. A little bit about our church. We're a mobile church for about nine and a half years and as we've crossed this threshold of our 10-year mark, we've been in our brand new building March 30th here in a ⁓ couple more weeks. We'll be in it for our first full year and it's been fun to see what God has done not just through the ⁓ early stages of mobile church in and out of a local school which where we met at for many years but this last season of just growth and the new people that have how now become part of our faith family at Traverse through our new building. Frank Weller: Yeah, you you thought things were busy when you were pastoring a mobile church. Well, now it's like your hair's on fire. So it does not slow down. Patrick Lightfoot: Absolutely. Yes, that's right. Yes. I didn't think I would have to deal with certain things moving from mobile to being in our own building, but we've been navigating them, I think, pretty well for the most part. Frank Weller: That's fantastic. Well, we're going to dive in in just a moment. But first I want to take a minute to pause and say that the Better Preaching podcast is powered by Great Lakes Christian College where their new master's degree in practical theology brings students face to face with passionate professors for real time instruction and genuine community. Students make friends, ask questions and get real time feedback from accessible professors who love God and revere scripture. You will get practical and go deep at GLCC. For more details, go to glcc.edu. Patrick, you didn't really plan to become a preacher, so I'd love to hear about that journey and how you find yourself the lead pastor of Traverse Christian Church. Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah, I have to still pinch myself, Frank. I'll be honest with you. My first 12 years of the workforce, I was actually in professional sales for promotional advertising company here in Northern Colorado. I worked for my in-laws and my mother-in-law had some eye, genetic eye issues. And so we had the opportunity to move back after graduating, both my wife and I from Harding University, to move back and work in the family business. My degree is in business and so... ⁓ we did that for twelve years and about year ten i was starting to get a little antsy i felt like i was wrestling with god but i didn't know about what and ⁓ had a conversation with a friend of mine and he said patrick god's calling you to ministry and i said that's not me i'm a guy i'm a dude i'm not a pastor i'm not a minister i'm not a preacher but i always found myself like the guy at the gym you know the gym rats is what we call them every time you're there they're just kinda always there like man does this guy or this gal live at the gym? Well I was that for the church. there was a small group, there were some kind of gathering, I was just always kind of around and he saw this in me and I didn't see it in myself. And so I had a couple of affirmations along the way during this time and ⁓ two that I remember distinctly. ⁓ was a gentleman, he was a plumber by trade, blue collar guy and He comes up to me and he's in tears and I thought, ⁓ man, this guy's got something heavy on his heart. He's going to share something really deep. And he's like, Patrick, God just put him hard to tell you that you need to go to ministry. And I walked away from that moment. Like, what did just happen? I can't what? And then I had another one similar with another lady that I've known for a long, time. And ⁓ so about that 10 year mark in business, we were getting ready to transition the business from my in-laws to my wife and I, Hannah, and we sat on their patio. Frank Weller: Hmm. Patrick Lightfoot: having brunch on a Saturday and they put out plan A and plan B on the table and they went through both scenarios. If we did plan A, this is what it would look like. If did plan B, this is what it would look like. And they asked me this question, what do you think? And I said, well, before I tell you what I think, because both plan and plan B are really good, I need to tell you about something. And so I kind of backtracked, told them some of these little points along the way and my mother-in-law sitting across from us, Frank, and she's smiling the entire time. grin on her face and as I'm telling the story of how God has kind of pointed us to something in ministry I'm thinking she should be upset because all we've talked about for the last several years is Hannah and I, her son-in-law and daughter buying the business which they owned for 29 years. It's a multi-million dollar business at the time before they sold it and I can't believe her face and when I got done I asked them the same question, well what do you think? and my mother-in-law looked at me and goes, Patrick, Randy and I, I just told him yesterday, I think Patrick needs to go into ministry. And then that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I'm like, okay, God, I'm in. I'll do this ministry thing. I got a degree in business, but I just find myself always at the church wanting to do more. And that just led me down this path to going to get a degree, a master's degree at Hope International in Fullerton, California. I did that all online so I didn't have to do any residency. And then I got an internship at Journey Christian Church. I was there for 13 years, but I was on staff for the last four years before we planted the church. So that was kind of the backstory of how we got to where we're at now. Never had a dream or an idea or even thought of even being in any kind of vocational ministry. And so God brought me out of the workplace into the local church context and setting. Frank Weller: But even when you were at Journey, you weren't thinking Church Planter. They had sort of a different plan in mind. They had a different plan A. Patrick Lightfoot: No, not at all. Yeah, so I was on staff for four years. I was the adult minister and that's a real nice way of saying, uh, you're going to do everything that lead pastor lead minister doesn't want to do. And it fits my personality because I love to have my hands on a lot of different cookie jars. If you told me I had to go to job, work a job from nine to five and a cubicle, and it was the same thing every day. I can't live like that. It's always good. So I oversaw all the adult ministries are small groups, men's, women's. Frank Weller: Yeah. Yeah. Patrick Lightfoot: Oversaw funerals, weddings, so it's just a lot of different things and it was a real growing time for me to gain all those experiences since I wasn't early on in my career getting an undergrad. I'm like, hey, I want to be a preacher and work in ministry. And so I had a, I think some time to, I had to catch up, I guess, just some practical application of what does it mean to be in ministry. And I was so grateful for that. But about the three year mark, I just felt like I wanted to do something in my community. We were there at Journey. for 13 years, I was on staff for four. And all we did in Greeley was pastor. We live in Windsor, it's about 12 miles away. And we invited friends and neighbors and they love Journey, but they're like, man, it's just too far, 12 miles. And so was like, God put this burden on our heart, we need to do something here. And I thought it was gonna be like a multi-site because I didn't wanna leave Journey. I worked with a team of 13, I was on the executive team of four pastors, loved those men dearly. And I had what I thought was the best job ever. loved it, no reason to leave. Well we were in a prayer meeting with our elders and our staff and we brought this conversation up about doing a multi-site because that was my kind of brainchild because I wanted something here in my town. And Aaron Chambers, our lead pastor who's still the lead pastor there, he said one of the wisest things he ever said, said, Patrick, he goes, you're a strong leader, I'm a strong leader, but we're different kind of leaders and because of that I don't think us having that kind of model will work. you will frustrate me and I will frustrate you. think we need to prepare you to go plant a church." And when I heard that I was like, I don't even know what church plan is Frank. I've never heard of a church plan. I was like, what are you even talking about? Well, two and a half weeks later, my wife and I, we find ourselves in a church planning assessment. And that's how this whole thing got started. And when we went into ministry the prior four years, as our time and journey, we just told the Lord, we'll just go and do whatever you want us to do. And so we just been kind of saying, yes. Frank Weller: Yeah. Patrick Lightfoot: and following and now we find ourselves right here which is crazy. Frank Weller: That's fantastic. What's the, what for you have been some of the biggest transitions between ⁓ being on staff at a church and then being the lead guy, particularly somebody who's got to preach every Sunday. I don't know. Did you preach at Journey at all? And ⁓ you know, or is it an entirely new experience for you? Patrick Lightfoot: Yes and no. So I taught in Big Church once a quarter. So I plenty of time to prepare. And it was interesting. People asked me when you planted the church, what was like your biggest concern or fear? Well, I felt like my time in the business world being in sales, I'm very extroverted. I feel like I connect with people really, really well. And so building teams, casting a vision, that stuff, I felt like, man, I can do this. But my biggest fear or concern is like, I got to do this every seven days. I thought, do I do this? Because when I was at Journey once a quarter, like, I got eight weeks to prep this thing. Like, I got plenty of time. I don't have to rush on a thing. Now it's like, ⁓ my goodness, Sunday's coming again. And it felt like early on these Sundays, it didn't feel like seven days apart. It felt like they were two days apart. Like, ⁓ my gosh, I to do it again and again. So I felt like that was probably my biggest concern. What would be my rhythm, my flow? How do I do this in a way that is done well, but done in a way that... ⁓ is gonna excite me to do it and and keep in that rhythm might keep myself in the hopper and Just kind of finding my own my own rhythm with it Frank Weller: I know you had some Bible classes at Harding and ⁓ certainly your time at Hope International helped prepare you for that transition. you your path to preaching isn't sort of that traditional pathway. But I'm guessing that there were some there were some preachers who you really admired or, ⁓ you know, modeled different things in their ministry that you wanted ⁓ to carry into yours. Who were some of those guys that? impacted you or maybe they're still impacting you as a preacher. Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah, my first one was Tom Nelson. Many people haven't heard of him. He's at Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas. And he played football at North Texas. And so he had this great ability for humor, but he was strictly expository. And how I got turned on to him, there's a ⁓ series he did just verse by verse, line by line through the book of Song of Solomon called Love Song. And I know more about those eight chapters than any book in the Bible because I just listened to that. and my actually my mother-in-law found it and she turned me on to his picture i think there's a sky you might like so i just started listening to him and just really gravitated towards him and so he told these great stories cuz i love sport analogies i played baseball at harding my wife played volleyball party so anything connected with sports are really gravitate towards and so for him to tell stories about being in the huddle but also he's a he's a poet this guy loves shakespeare and i love the songs and so just he's so well rounded in could talk about a lot of different things so he was probably my guess my first preacher that kind of quote followed my sale was erin chambers at journey what's interesting erin is still there today i think he uh... we hired in two thousand seven and i was actually on the search committee and so our elders put together search committee and i wasn't even on staff i was just a lay person in the church and i said yeah i'll be on the on search committee and i there was probably six or seven of us where they had narrowed the search under like three or four candidates and at that time they had these things called CDs you probably remember what those are right and so they had the candidates have their resume and send a CD in so we could watch it and I plugged in one and watched one guy and I was like oh that was okay and Aaron was the second or third one and I watched I think it was the second one I watched it and I was blown away I didn't even watch the last couple I'm like this is a guy we need to hire strictly not even based on anything but his ability to communicate and what Frank Weller: Yeah, right. Yep. Patrick Lightfoot: really drew me to Aaron was ⁓ his ability to retain and remember what he studied and he did the whole sermon without notes and I'd never seen that. I'd never seen that and I was just blown away. This guy remembered everything and it was just really smooth. The transitions were great. It was a logical flow. You could follow him. He was humorous. He was engaging. He used great gestures, ⁓ ability to change pitch and sound. You know, it's just like this guy is polished. and I'd never seen that before. And so I have always appreciated Aaron and we were there until we planted the church in 2016. So for basically nine or 10 years, I got to hear Aaron preach, you know, 45 sermons a year and just his ability to teach and preach. He's one of my all time favorites. Yeah, for sure. Frank Weller: Mm. You know, I think sometimes when we particularly when we're starting out in preaching and we're, you know, we're sitting in the office and it's the blank page and the text is open in front of us. Sometimes we can hear the voice of, you know, like an Aaron Chambers in our head. How would they approach this text? What would they do? And one of the challenges is to find your own voice. And so talk to me a little bit about how you discovered your own voice as a preacher. Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah. Sure. Yes. Sure. Well, first it started, okay, I got to do this every week now. So I had to find this rhythm of how to do that. And then I remember the first six months, Frank, I'd literally get off the stage. were at the school, we had our stage, we to set up, we had to set up all the chairs, there's all this stuff. And then you got to preach on top of that. And I'd literally walk off the stage. We'd always offer, we still do a time of prayer after the message while we take communion. And the first thing I'd ask my wife, was like, hey, was that okay? Hey, how bad was that? And, ⁓ finally got to the point and through my wife and through the work of the holy spirit ⁓ is patrick prep put in the work and is let it rip man just be you just be you man i don't have to be an erin i don't have to be a ⁓ tom nelson i don't have to be a joby martin i don't have to be a francis chan you know you fill in the blank i'm not them and so i just had to come to the groups and be okay with it's okay to be patrick Frank Weller: Mm. Mm-hmm. Patrick Lightfoot: you there's an old Dove commercial, I even remember about, comfortable in your own skin that commercial reminds us to be comfortable in what God has gifted me and just be the best version of Patrick that's all I'm called to do and be faithful to that because I'm not going to be Billy Graham, I'm not going to be the Apostle Paul, I'm not going to be whoever now can I can I appreciate and draw from other ⁓ preachers and teachers? Absolutely! There's different Frank Weller: Mm. Patrick Lightfoot: different people, different things. I think of teachers like Matt Chandler and Francis Chan. I think they're more of teachers than preachers. They're just great teachers of the Word. I have a great appreciation that. think of Joby Martin. His just heart for to draw men into the church and his challenging men and helping them make those next steps of faith and leading not just in the church but in their families and communities. I love that about him. So there's different people that I, for specific maybe different reasons that I'm kind of drawn or I... appreciate you about them, I just have to be the best version of Patrick. And I, after about six months, I came to that realization and that was one of the most comforting things for me to know that I'm not being compared, I'm not being, I'm supposed to be like a mini me of so and so, just be Patrick. Frank Weller: There's a real freedom in that because now it's well, look, the reality is there's only one Francis Chan there, you know, the, there is only one Bob Russell. There is only one David Platte. So there's the freedom is I don't have to be that guy. I can just be me. Now, like you say, can we learn from those folks? Absolutely. Can we steal from those folks? Yes. With the appropriate citation, that's the professor coming out of me. But, but yeah, you know, there's freedom in just Patrick Lightfoot: ⁓ yes. That's right. Yeah. Yes. Sure. Okay. That's right. Frank Weller: being yourself. I appreciate that. Listen, I want to pause and say a word from our sponsors at Great Lakes Christian College. Listen, your week is full. Sermons, staff meetings, visits with your people. GLCC gets it. That's why their new master's degree in practical theology offers convenience without sacrificing community. You'll get real instructional support from professors with actual pastoral experience. That's more face to face and less busy work. So you can grow without burning out. It's a new degree for a new day in theological education. built for leaders who want depth, not fluff. So keep serving where you are while earning a degree that serves you. More details are at glcc.edu. Patrick, let's talk for a little bit just about ⁓ preaching as a craft, ⁓ as a pursuit. When you think about the future of preaching, what excites you and or concerns you about where we're going in preaching? today. Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah, what excites me are a couple of things. Number one, I believe our culture right now is craving truth. I think the things of this culture are wearing thin on people and they're not fulfilling the hopes and promises that they have claimed and they never do. And so I'm seeing this shift where people, just want to open up their Bible and they want to know about who this God is, Jesus Christ that the church is talking about. So I'm excited for that. think there's some really open hearts and open minds and open ears to God's word. So I think the harvest is ripe right now. Like we haven't seen in a long time. I really believe that. And I'm seeing that Frank in a lot of our generations that my son and my daughter's age. My son Nolan's 22, my daughter's 20. And in their age group, these early 20s, all the way through their 20s, early 30s, I think they're really craving to know and understand. what kind of hope can they have for the world they live in today and they haven't found it in anything else and they're coming back to the church and they're not coming back to the church for tradition they're not coming back to the church because that's where mom and dad said we should be they're actually seeking truth and so i'm excited about that and i especially see it too frank in the in the men in that demographics as well i think of two men i'm teaching a bible class on tuesday nights and thursday nights and the one on tuesday i've got two young men ⁓ One's married with a couple of kids, another's engaged, getting ready to get married in May. ⁓ One's getting baptized this Sunday, one's getting baptized the next Sunday. And these guys are craving it. They're asking these questions. They're pulling me aside after church, ⁓ after Bible study. Hey, I want to talk to you more. And it's just resonating with this generation to know and seek truth. So that's super exciting for me. That's the first thing. The second thing is we've got some young men and women that Frank Weller: Mm. Mm-hmm. Patrick Lightfoot: are super creative and their ability to communicate God's truths is what is exciting. To see and hear their passion for what they're learning and then giving it in a way that connects with that generation is really neat to see. So I'm learning just as much from some of the guys we spoke about earlier and what I've learned and that I appreciate about these gifted teachers and preachers, but there's some of these young ones that are coming up that are like, wow, they are really, really good. at what they do. So those are some of the exciting things for me ⁓ right now in preaching. Frank Weller: Yeah, I agree. I just think there's a real hunger from Generation Z right now. I think that starts at a place of pragmatism. This is a generation that has been told, hey, here are the solutions to all of life's difficulties. Here's a way to live that makes sense. And I think that they're saying, hey, we tried that and it doesn't make sense. It doesn't work. Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah. Yeah. Frank Weller: And so maybe we should return to the ancient things and examine them once again and see if maybe the people who went before us are, you know, are right. ⁓ So Gen X, you know, I'm a Gen Xer and we could not wait to ignore everything our parents were telling us to do. You know, if they Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah. Yes, and I fall in line there too, because we knew better. We were smarter than our moms and dads, right, Frank? Frank Weller: Yeah, that's right. They said, if they said go left, we went right. And I remember even saying things like, well, you know, I have to make my own mistakes and find out my own path. millennials, starting with millennials in Generation Z the same way, you know, they want to learn from the experience of those who've gone before them. And I think that's partly why we're seeing this return to faith and a re-exploration of these ancient things. Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah, no, I totally agree with that and we have these truths that are their eternal truths and that's why they last Now the things of the culture that's like a the flash in the pan, right? It's like this thing that catches on fire like ⁓ this is it This is it and man it burns out and it's done and we don't even think about it within a few weeks and months And then it's the next thing in culture, but that's the beauty of God's Word And it's the same yesterday today tomorrow and it is lock, stock and barrel. It is true it is right it is good and you can you can build your life on it you build your ministry on it you can build your marriage on it you build your finances on it and you can build raising your kids on it I mean for every part of our life it is found in God's Word and man just build your life on that that's why Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount what did he say you can either build on the rock or you can build on the sand and when the people of the culture build on sand the waves and the winds gonna blow and that's true for all people but if you're built on the rock these truths and you're going to withstand those storms. So build on the truth for sure. Frank Weller: Where do think we're going? What's the future of preaching? Obviously it's in another generation, but I mean, in terms of preaching as a craft or a body of work, what do you see down the road? Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah, I guess one concern I have is are we going have enough preachers? I mean, you're in Christian education as the president of Great Lakes Christian College. so, you and all your other leaders in higher education in the Christian faith are like, man, how do we get more men and women to come out of high school with a heart and passion for being Frank Weller: Mm-hmm. Patrick Lightfoot: leaders and preachers and teachers of God's Word and yet the world they're taking them to be lawyers and doctors and those are good platforms so we need people in those platforms but we just don't have as many young adults ⁓ wanting to pursue that so how do we make sure there's going to be ⁓ enough people that are going to teach and preach for the future of the church and for those who are also far from the Lord as well so I think that's probably one concern that I have for this next generation. Are we going have enough voice? voices, enough mouthpieces for the Lord to ⁓ keep doing the work. Frank Weller: And I think that begins with people like you and me really, you you, you said that there were people, you know, you're out there in the business world, you're killing it and, working for the in-laws with the plan to take over the business, a lot of upside for you, ⁓ financially, a lot of challenge, which you like, fit your personality. But somebody came alongside of you and had one of those ICNU conversations, probably several people. Right. And, so I think. Patrick Lightfoot: Yep. Frank Weller: filling that pastor pipeline starts with people like you and me. We've got to connect with people in our congregation, younger people particularly, and just have those ICNU kinds of conversations. Patrick Lightfoot: I totally agree, like you look in Luke 6, you know, Jesus went to the mountain and He prayed all night and then He called those twelve men. And obviously He saw something in them because we know historically He probably had about 120 followers at that point and these are the twelve that He picked. And in our human eyes, that's probably not the twelve you and I would pick, Frank. That's probably not the picks of the litter. Those were probably like the runts of the litter and yet Jesus picked them. But He saw something in them. And so for me, like I have five staff, I have ⁓ one or two full timers only one is a educated in ministry ⁓ pastor the other ones that i have one full-time or the two part-timers on top of that those are all from inside our own church and so i'm seeing more and more that i think in the larger churches they probably have the ability with internships residency programs probably deeper connections maybe with some of ⁓ the christian education institutions ⁓ that they can do those things and say hey who do you have who's the cream of the cream of the crop there can we want to we want to pick them but for most churches that's not that's not gonna happen so we've got to raise the bar and and to your point is like i see that in you moments like hey you have no idea what you want to do but man i see this in you and ⁓ i think we need to start calling people out because they're in our pews are chairs in our buildings right now are our next church planner for our church network or from from Traverse Christian Church most likely is not gonna happen outside of our walls. It's probably someone that is literally sitting right with us right now. We just need to identify. Frank Weller: So how are you pouring into those people then and helping get them the ⁓ education, the knowledge set that they need, both experientially and intellectually? What are you doing to develop those folks? Patrick Lightfoot: Yeah, so with our church planning network, part of Nexus and so we've got about 80 or 90 church plants in about 22, 23 states. also one of their church planning coaches. We have what's called Nexus Leadership Institute and it's for lay people that can take some online courses. It's kind of like a ministry certificate, so that's kind of a first step. Like we have conversations like, I may have this calling, I like God's want me to do something and so that is one way that we can do it. Another way for me is I'm intentional about walking with specific guys like Jesus called his disciples you come follow me right now I'm walking with three different guys one. We're actually getting ready to affirm as our next elder in two weeks and He for years he was in the same job 19 years Frank and he kept saying I'm made for more I made for more in my workplace and he just felt like he wasn't growing he just kind of hit this ceiling and I just had a conversation with I said Mikey here's the deal I think the more that you're talking about it's not in your in your vocation. I think it's in faith. I think it's in church leadership. And so for about the last 18 months, I've been walking with him, training with him. What does it mean to be an elder in the local church? And he feels this call. So we put him before the church last week, give our church about two weeks to... if there's any reason why we shouldn't affirm him, we're going to affirm Mikey as our next one of our next elders on the 29th. So it's just for us as church leaders to see these things in them, call them out, but then also provide opportunities either to walk with them to teach and train and equip them or like for those lay people like, I just feel like I need some more training. We have opportunities for that. I had one staff we through group publishing, which is located here in Colorado. had some training similar to that that was specifically geared for student ministry and for children's ministry. And so we had our current staff at that time go through their program to earn that designation of a certificate of some online training that would equip them more than what they had coming into the role they were at. Frank Weller: That's fantastic. Patrick, we got two minutes left. So what is one piece of preaching advice that you would offer to your younger self? Patrick Lightfoot: yeah, piece of advice I would give myself ⁓ after years of preaching every Sunday is believe what you are teaching. Because someone can, they'll sniff right through it. A fourth grader can tell if you don't believe what you're teaching. And so for me, that is absolutely vital. If I'm not excited and passionate about what I'm teaching, ⁓ I to pivot to something else. ⁓ And that helps me if I'm like, as my heart, as my soul isn't revved up, as like... Frank Weller: Okay, one piece of advice I would give. Patrick Lightfoot: yes, this, this, this is what the church needs to hear today, yes, ⁓ that's what I would do. A lot of times I was preaching or teaching based on what does the church need to hear or what is a common theme going around in churches, what are other people teaching on? And like, no, I gotta believe what I'm teaching. Frank Weller: A lot of times I was preaching or teaching based on what is the church need to hear or what is a common theme going around in churches? What are other people teaching on? And like, nope, I gotta believe what I'm... Yeah, love it. Well, that's fantastic. But we're out of time. And so before I want to go man, Patrick, I want to say thank you to you. I want to say thank you to our sponsor Great Lakes Christian College. And I want to thank you our better preaching podcast community for listening to and supporting the better preaching podcast. Join us next time for an insightful conversation because better preaching makes a bigger impact.