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Dan Cinotto - We Were Loud Once Podcast · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entity today.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Representative listener discretion is advised.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Joining me on the podcast today is a good thing.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Alongside Jeff Deegan, a show that digs deep into the new metal era from the perspective of two guys who are actually part of it.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: They explore what that scene was really like and why the genre is making such a strong comeback today.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a conversation about the roots, the rise, and the revival of a movement that never truly went away.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mike.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mike.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta tell you, this is really a welcome change of pace for me.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot say how many episodes I've had to have like Cliff's notes of my guests in front of me.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I know my guests, but I've had to have Cliff's notes in front of me just so I didn't fuck anything up.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm very lucky to welcome a friend, a longtime Omaha, Nebraska music veteran.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's awesome to kind of take things back to the homestead.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Dan Sonato, he is a former member of the band Downshift, current member of the band Narcotic Self, and he hosts a fantastic podcast called We Were Loud Once, talking about a time that I hold near and dear to my heart.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I bet he didn't even know it.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Dan, welcome to the show, man.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thank you.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm fantastic.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: How about that introduction?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I I'm speechless.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: That was very nice.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: That was very, very kind of you.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh yeah, um yeah, happy to be here.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, man.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I kind of want to I want to just rip the band-aid off and get right into it.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are eight episodes into We Were Loud once.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you take a moment, introduce yourself, and kind of talk about the concept behind the show?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it uh it was kind of it was interesting.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um uh a couple months back, uh, my counterpart on the show, um, Jeff Geegan, he reached out to me and and he and I had played together um in the band Downshift, uh, oh geez, 20, 20 plus years ago now.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and he was like, you know, would you be interested in possibly doing a podcast with me?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And because he had uh, you know, after um Downshift had kind of um kind of went its or ran its course, you know, he got into kind of voiceover work and podcasting and things like that.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and that's when I had uh joined another band in um so he reached out and I said, you know, what what about?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Well, about new metal.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, I feel like I may have some stories and some things to say about it.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So sure, you know, let's let's do it.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's it's been very exciting, it's been very natural, you know, and we were very um, you know, lucky to kind of have been brought up in a in a music scene that was very, especially for that genre of music, I suppose, it was very um opportunistic, if that's the right word.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we were, you know, actually this uh let me back up a minute.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the podcast itself is is giving me an opportunity to kind of relive some of those things that I hadn't thought about in years, you know.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so kind of thinking about those things and telling those stories, it's like, you know, I'm I'm kind of putting that stuff back out there and I'm able to kind of be grateful for it because, you know, in talking with young bands, you know, today, they don't have opportunities like we had, you know, to open up for you know, people that you know we were massive fans of and be able to play alongside them.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's just that's very rare these days.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of share a similar trajectory, like, and I have to be careful, being that I'm a guest-driven podcast, it has opened up a lot of my memory banks where I'm able to have a music guest on my show and share a lot of common experiences, but I have to be careful and be like, okay, I can't make this about myself.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have to like express some level of objectivity whenever talking about it.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm glad you brought up the opportunities we had back in that era of like 25 years ago.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people do not understand enough what was going on in the Midwest, Omaha and Des Moines in the late 90s and early 2000s.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, 2001, 2002, the Saddle Creek scene blew up, and I kind of feel like the mainstream music industry missed out on a lot of what was going on here at that point in time.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, you know, and it was um, and in fact, Jeff and I just released an episode this week where we were kind of talking about kind of coming up in the shadow of what was happening in the Midwest.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time it was slipknot, you know, and kind of the things that were, I suppose, expected of us in terms of a performance and in terms of a look and all of these things.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and uh so it was it's definitely interesting to relive it.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there was a lot going on here outside of that um during that time period.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and there was, I don't remember where I heard it or where I read it.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, labels were talking about us potentially being the next Seattle, you know.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and am I remembering that right?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like No, you are you're absolutely right.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was the Wall Street Journal, an article where they were writing about I think Bright Eyes Cursive and the Faint blowing up right around 2001, where they cited Omaha as being the next Seattle, which is just crazy to think about in hindsight.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know it was in the Wall Street Journal.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I thought that was just kind of something that was maybe casually said, you know.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's wild.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's why everybody on Slam Omaha, for those that don't know what Slam Omaha was, you're probably better off, um, cited the article so much.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I slam Omaha, that's a that's a whole different thing.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um Jeff actually he he made a a comment on the show um about uh you know it stood for uh support uh support local art and music, and it turned into just taking the word slam literally.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um and going on there and it was kind of an airing of grievances towards the end of its lifespan.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: But uh but you know, yeah, it's it was wild to be around during that time.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, like I said, it was it's kind of allowed uh Jeff and I to kind of remember some of those experiences.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's there were stories that I long forgot about.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh so it's fun to kind of relive those.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's drill down into it a little bit.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I remember, and and I've cited this on my show several times.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I lived at the perfect midpoint between Des Moines and Omaha when the whole Slipknot thing was happening, when they were a local band.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've known Sophia John since I was 16 years old.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I will not say how old I am now, but she was she was program director of a radio station in Des Moines in the mid-90s.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was the little punk rock kid that used to go to the Slipknot shows, like when they had their first lineup and then the the lineup that actually got their major label deal.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of my shows before I moved to Omaha in 1998 was one of the last shows Slipknot did before they um before they went and signed or went and recorded with Ross Robinson and did that debut album.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was a real crazy title shift at that point in the 90s, wasn't it?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: From like 1996 to 1999, as far as genres go.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: It it absolutely was, you know.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I remember, you know, yeah, and I'm making an assumption here, we're probably around the same age.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, because I remember, you know, that mid to late, you know, 90s, it was kind of um kind of in my orbit, there was a lot of in terms of genre, kind of funk metal kind of stuff happening.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that first incubus record was really popular.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and but once the slipknot record came out, and especially once they got that first Ozfest tour, it was just the whole dynamic changed.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just, it was a wild shift.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, we were lucky because, you know, uh Sophia John, who you mentioned, um, she ended up moving to Omaha and uh became the the PD out at a radio station here and was kind of in the same building where we all played.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the building had the radio station, a bowling alley, a club, and a pool hall.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was yeah, um, we don't need to get too deep into that right now, but you know, it um um it was definitely, you know, knowing that she had been involved in that to a certain extent, you know, it was like, oh wow.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we were kids, you know, so it's like that was a big deal, yeah, you know, and um I remember more more often than not going to her for advice, like what can I do?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: What do I need to do?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is this song any good?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: What do I need to change?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and uh I would even to this day, I'll always take her advice.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you you and me both, man.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I just saw her not even two weeks ago, and we're we were like standing in the middle of Sturcove, and she's like, So are you ready to monetize this thing yet?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, I want to.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: You got some ideas, but but you know, I you talked about that first slipknot album.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: From my memory, for when when the switch, the flip of the switch actually happened, was that little time period between Korn's Life is Peachy and Follow the Leader.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a great documentary out there, it's called Pick It Up Ska in the 90s, and it talks about the third wave of ska and how it became the biggest thing on the planet, and then six months later, it's like new metal absolutely, but like it took it out, and and like um, you know, and I was in a ska band at the time, and and that's that's this is the funny thing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was in this nine-piece ska band, and like we were playing high school dances and we were playing at the college and stuff.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody loved us.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we had the opportunity to open up for Slipknot and being cool, ska guy.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, I'm gonna bring candy to the show, and I threw it out to the audience at the Slipknot show, like probably a month or two after the genre had died, and I think I still have battle wounds from that moment.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Some of those crowds were unforgiving.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think you're right.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there was there was definitely a shift, and you know, once Slipknot really kind of took off, I mean, corn was already huge at this point, um, you know, especially after Follow the Leader came out, um, and then the Slipknot record broke, and then it was kind of a total, like everybody's attention was back to um, you know, these, you know, they weren't called new metal bands at the time.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's almost like the term or phrase new metal is more of just like a timestamp anyway.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: It is, you know, it's like hard rock, you know, in metal and the crossover stuff.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, you know, um, if you had a tuned down guitar and a DJ, you were gonna be called new metal.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, but uh but yeah, it was definitely a shift.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you start to see, you know, or started to see a lot of um, you know, labels wanting to sign those kinds of bands, and um, and then you kind of get it's like, okay, you have your you're starting to get your hierarchy of bands, you know, from that time period.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not to say that there was any diminished quality the further down you got, because at those lower levels, there's some great music.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, going back, and and another reason why Jeff and I wanted to start the podcast was we're starting to see it kind of come back around, and people are starting to uh you can hear its influence in in newer bands, but then you see, you know, Slipknot is one of the biggest bands on the planet.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know, corn is still selling at arenas, you know what I mean?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we wanted to kind of um you know, kind of tell our stories and and maybe turn some people on to some music that uh from that time period that they may not have either remembered or had heard of.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not to rehash it, but you know, kind of going back to that era, there were a lot of like bands that were clearly within a metal or metal adjacent genre, but very much like um how everybody got labeled as alternative in '93, '94.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: It seemed like they started playing really loose with the term new metal from 1998 to 2002.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel the same way?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: At least that's always been my perception.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, because you have you know bands like Limb Biscuit, and then you have bands like Slipknot and both are, you know, considered new metal.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, they sound nothing alike.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they may have a similar guitar tuning and the DJ thing, but that's really it.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so maybe you know, the kind of rapping vocal style, you know, they there was some overlap there, but it's like everything was just getting lumped into it.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, for um, I think it was in 2000, I actually interned at Immortal Records.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that was they were the ones who released the first couple corn albums, that first Incubus record.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um who else did they do?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm forgetting a big one.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um 30 Seconds of Mars was theirs.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: They did some smaller bands, you know, Switched, no one, um, a couple um Transmatic was another smaller new metal band.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was, you know, and I started to kind of see it from the inside out a little bit too.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, because they were just they were going nuts on, you know, these these bands that were producing music with that sound, but it was very it was getting stale.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know, unfortunately.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've long held the theory that in right or wrong, that you know everybody looks to Napster as being the death knell of the music industry, and I view it in two categories.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: 1998, and you can look this up in the year 1998, there were more one-hit wonders than any other year in the history of popular rock music.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you can look it up.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: You look at those charts and you look and you're like, holy shit, there are a bunch of so to me, what that seem what that says to me is like post-1996, the industry had pretty much lost its way, so they were just trying to figure out something that would stick.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, I talked about the ska explosion, there was swing, there were all these weird, like like Len and all these other off-beat kind of bands and such.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But then you take the new metal thing, and I know this is really long-winded, but you you take the new metal thing, and it sounds like anybody that had a marketable look and could sound close got a record deal.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that over um bloated approach to the industry probably did as much harm as Napster, but nobody's gonna come out and admit it.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's it's it's funny that you say that because we we talk about something very similar uh on on uh we were loud once, and it it kind of revolved around everybody having dreadlocks.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if if you had dreadlocks, you immediately got a record deal.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so everybody started um putting dreads in their ear.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um uh it was it was kind of funny, but uh um, but yeah, you know, it's they started to kind of sign those movies.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And there was um we um we had a conversation Jeff and I did about uh Crazy Town.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, and they had uh the one hit Butterfly, which was sampled from a chili pepper cigar.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I I I made an assumption, but I thought it was kind of funny.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I said, well, you know, maybe they were working with a producer, they turned the record in.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Label says there's no hits on this, so they're gonna send them back in the studio with another producer, and that's how you got butterfly, you know.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh, that was the likely scenario of what happened.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um who really knows, I don't, but um, in those kind of scenarios, like those were the records that these labels were putting out.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: They were very um, I hesitate to use the word derivative of kind of the bigger bands, but they kind of were.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, not to say that there weren't any good songs on them, because there were.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, but by and large, they weren't gonna have a lengthy career, you know, uh as a band.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: A really good point.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I say this with the fondness of the band and actually the album, but the machine heads, the burning red, compared to the rest of their discography, and how that album sounded compared to the rest of their discography and when it landed, it landed in summer of 99.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, man, this sounds like nothing they've released before, but it sounds like a lot of the stuff that's popular right now.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I wear that record out.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Me too, even to this day.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that record.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And too, the cover of the police, man, because it's fantastic.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, it's got that Ross Robinson production, and you know, and I think that, you know, since I'm mentioning him too, that you know, his production style and his way of kind of extracting a performance from you know, a musician, it was just kind of it defined the sound, and it defined it with corn and with limpus, get in with sulk knot.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, and I think everybody was kind of chasing it from there on.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and the machine head record was very reminiscent of that sound.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: It came a couple years later, but you got that sound, you knew what you were getting.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, oh, it's produced by Ross.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's gonna have this sound.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be Machine Head, but it's gonna be this sound.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what it was.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let's localize it a little bit here just for a second.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: How familiar were you with the Des Moines scene when Slipknot was a local band and like just on the verge of going national?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we were kind of um we were kind of the next class under them, you know.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I always considered like if they were the senior class, you know, we were the juniors, you know, so we weren't really traveling yet.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: We were just young enough to where we only knew of them, right?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we knew them as these crazy guys with masks on.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: They come through, they'll play a show, and they'll go to Lincoln and then they'll go home.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's all we really knew of them.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they would jump on shows, so we never really knew that they were here and things like that.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we never got to really see them as a local band, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, but after that, we kind of partnered up with kind of the bands on our same level in from Des Moines, you know, and that's kind of where that that kind of marriage happened.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we played a ton in Des Moines, still do, and and you know, those bands uh, you know, play a lot here, the whole trade show kind of thing, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh so yeah, we were just kind of right underneath it, you know, just a little bit too young.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So what I was trying to set up, and and now you'll pick up what I'm putting down now, is slipknot post-mortem.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you're playing a show in Omaha one night, you go play a show in Des Moines the next night.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: What was your immediate observation of that era at that time?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, after they broke, yeah, slipknot.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was there was there were some similarities, but it was very different.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, Des Moines was it's really hard to give the truth without sounding like you're taking a shit on Des Moines.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Trust me, I know.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I and I mean no disrespect to anybody, it was just weirder, you know, and the the slip knot aesthetic and what they said about themselves was very true, and you feel that when you go to Des Moines um and play some of the places that we played, whether it was the Valair Ballroom or you know, Woolies or House of Bricks or wherever it was, RIP House of Bricks.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, you still got that vibe, and you're like, okay, I get it now, it makes sense, you know.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, and that influence really, you know, it kind of set up a lot of you know the Omaha bands and everybody kind of went in that direction a little bit.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, from a crowd perspective, you know, it was it was different.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: There was there was more of an expectation in Des Moines for you to be kind of like that, um, as opposed to Omaha.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's really weird because when when I was finally ready, two years after exposing myself to the Omaha music scene in the most negative ways possible, I went back to Des Moines and played shows.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we could get over in Omaha or in Des Moines in ways that we couldn't.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Get over in our own hometown.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I always found that really fascinating.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: We actually kind of not to jump to current, um, but you know, I I get that feeling today, you know, in in the band that I play with today.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, Des Moines is a little bit more receptive to the heavier music.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think because of Slipknot.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where Omaha, you know, if you kind of think it's like, you know, if you kind of think of, you know, who the big bands were that came out of Omaha, you immediately go to 311, you know, and um whether they claim Omaha or LA.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, but um, you know, that was kind of it's like, okay, you got 311 and you got slipknot.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, um, two completely different things.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody in Omaha loves 311.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't sound like that, you're not gonna, you know, uh, there might be an expectation there in terms of um of what people are gonna want.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because at the time, you know, 311 was doing some heavier stuff.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, you know, and I think that was kind of the the wave out of the that kind of early 90s kind of heavier stuff, but you're you're absolutely right, and that's kind of what I was hinting at earlier, where you know, they were kind of just throwing that new metal label around and trying to lump bands that didn't fit in the new metal category on bills with new metal bands.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I I remember 311 getting put on heavier bills, I remember like Incubus, even though they kind of evolved from what they were to what they became, they were still getting put on heavier bills and and even like chili peppers.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: You think about the chili peppers they released Californication in summer of 1999, and you wouldn't have thought anything about uh chili peppers and corn being on a show together, even though stylistically it didn't fucking match, man.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's you know, that's another thing, you know, that was that was so intriguing about that kind of time period, because you know, you could go to a show and none of the bands are gonna sound some right until you got into maybe the early and and mid-2000s where it was a little bit more diluted.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, yeah, you could see a Chili Peppers type band with, you know, a slipknot type band and like when they would do like when the radio stations would do their big festivals, it was all those kinds of bands anyway, you know.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's you never knew what you were gonna get.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was just such I don't know, it was more interesting to me, to be honest.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: So like when you kind of consider your own trajectory, when do you feel the death knell of that era of new metal kind of really started to set in?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um probably 2004, 2005.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: I remember going.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually remember when I thought that it was gonna be done.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I went to see uh Lamb of God, I want to say Shadows Fall, maybe Hate Breed, kind of these new up-and-comers that were kind of doing something completely different, um, you know, and kind of bringing back more of the um the riff-based kind of of metal.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when when I saw, when I went and saw Lamb of God, I was just like, yeah, that's probably it, because it was so crazy.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: They, I think they tuned maybe a half step or a full step down.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't crazy like what we were doing, you know.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, okay, they tuned up, it's faster, it's more aggressive, we're toast, you know.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was more intricate, it was more of the virtuoso type playing, which that's another thing, you know, about New Mel is you didn't really have that.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like the guitar solo was dead during those years, nobody was doing them.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, so then you had guys in bands like that that were super shredders.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh man.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I liked it.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, if I like this, this is gonna be kind of the not to say that I'm the barometer for success by any means, but you know, it's like these guys are probably gonna do well.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And Name of God became one of the biggest metal bands, you know, out there, you know.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And some people refer to it as kind of the birth of metal core or the new wave of American heavy metal, you know, there's a lot of names for it.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, but I remember that, and I think that show was probably 2003, 2004, maybe.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh I was like, oh no.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think you and I are probably gonna have different perspectives than say an an average pedestrian on the subject, just being musicians and having been in bands ourselves, because the way I kind of view it, it's very similar, is that you know, you had this other genre taking off at the same time, like the the pop punk emo blowup, you can't deny that there were people from both genres kind of crossing over into similar bands, and that maybe influenced it a little bit.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you have some some metal guy that maybe listened to Iron Maiden and was more into the Rift style stuff, but had been playing more kind of groove-based, because let's let's face it, New Metal was more groove-based stuff that was that was maybe like had that itch and saw somebody like a thrice over there starting to kind of play a little bit more up-tempo stuff.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then MySpace, you know, the MySpace explosion 2004, 2005.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think that influenced all of it all at once.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh, absolutely.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the birth of social media, because that's another thing is we didn't have that during kind of the start of of this particular genre.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's wild to think back to that time.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: We also didn't have camera phones for a long time for the majority of it.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have cell phones.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's how long ago this was.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's how far we've come in the last, you know, 25 years, you know.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So there's the only record of those times were film cameras and, you know, um, like VHS tape camcorders and things like that.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so it's wild to go back through a lot of those old photos and scan them and digitize them so we can put them on social media now.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's like wow, you know, it's like they're on one hand, I'm I'm kind of glad that was the case because there's no record of a lot of things, which is probably a good thing.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, but on the flip side, you know, there's a lot of shows that I wish I had, you know, video of or photos of.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, because it was easier to forget a digit or forget like a camera or your camcorder or whatever.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you couldn't fit it in your pocket back in those days.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so a lot of that stuff, unfortunately for me, uh, in my experience is is gone.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but you know, for what Jeff and I did, um, in the record that he and I did together uh as Downshift, you know, we had we did a full DVD with that record.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of that stuff was documented during that particular time, which was really nice.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was a very labor-intensive project to do it.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm glad we did it.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, kind of going and building off of that, you know, talking about the the fact that there were no camera phones and digital cameras were still kind of new, you know, every genre hits a point where it gets overly commercialized, which leads to dilution, where the product becomes diluted.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you think that at some point in time, maybe even that 2003, 2004, where new metal kind of started to become a parody of itself to some extent?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the better new metal bands never took themselves too seriously, but you had a lot of guys who did.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you started to see a lot of people putting their own spin on it.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, bands like Il Niño and Umpuya, and um, you know, just a wide range of folks, crossbreed, who I still love to this day.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, they were kind of putting their different spin on it, which was cool, but you know, on the flip side, it was like I've heard this riff before, you know, it just has a Latin beat now, or it has, you know, a cool like keyboard kind of thing over it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I do think that uh it was starting to to parody itself.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it just kind of woke up one day and it was gone.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: All these bands are dropped, you know, and it was wild too, because now all of these bands I'm finding out, or I shouldn't say all a lot of them, um, as I'm going back through their Spotify, you know, looking for, because we um I did like a playlist for the podcast.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, so every time I remember a band, I'm like, oh, pressure four or five, put them on the playlist.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um come to find out that they continued to release music.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: It just wasn't um put it being put out by a major label.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so it's and during those days, you know, the internet was still in its infancy, MySpace was too.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if you didn't, if it wasn't at the record store, you probably weren't gonna hear about it, right?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, until now.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, wow, these things are popping up.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Crossbreed was the same way.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: They released like three or four more records after their debut.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, didn't know.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been nice to know about this.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like, you know, that that put some gas in the tank for me a little bit too, you know, to to really kind of see the podcast through.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And because it's like, man, now I get to like discover these other records for the first time.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the fact that they were kind of torch bearers for the genre, you know, through the the dark time, you know, uh, when new metal was kind of a derogatory word.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and it still kind of is, to be honest with you, because moving into um, you know, kind of from new metal to thrash metal, you know, a lot of the thrash and and death metal guys, they use it as a derogatory term.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna not say anything because you're bigger than me and we're adults now, but um, but um, but yeah, um, I think it uh it definitely got a little derivative as time went on.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but you know, that happens with every genre.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it happened with hair metal, it happened with grunge, it happened, you know, and that's that's completely on the labels, you know.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: When something big hits, they want 30 of them, you know, and and they need them quick.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember too, you know, to kind of bring it back local a little bit.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, um, you know, there were bands, you know, out of kind of the Midwest, you know, Des Moines, Omaha, Lincoln that were getting signed because of Slipknot, almost like literally, like they helped get them signed.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there was uh oh, let's see, um, Dirt Fed out of Lincoln, Sean got them signed, um, Emphatic out of Omaha, uh, they signed with Universal, um, Face Cage out of Des Moines.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Corey started his own label to to do them, you know.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it was um, but it, you know, that was kind of towards the the latter end of it.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and Emphatic was more hard rock than they were new metal, but the other two were kind of right up the middle, new metal.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I loved both bands, to be honest with you.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of crazy because you can look at somebody like an Emphatic and look at the earlier sound versus the stuff they were releasing as they got signed, and even they kind of shifted their sound just a little bit because they started off a lot heavier than how they ended up whenever they uh they signed that date to the label.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know who else is a great example of that is the band stained.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you listen to the first stained record, um, it was that was really heavy.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then then you got um what's the song called Outside?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you got that, and now we want a whole record of that.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you started to kind of see it kind of tame out, and um, and then he just ends up doing that by himself.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh, you know, that's that's how the music industry works, and uh it it was wild.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Jared Leto of all people did a documentary years ago about the music business.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I can't for life of me remember what it was called, but it was really good.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there was one quote, not from him, but from um somebody that he interviewed, don't recall who it was, but she was involved somehow.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And she said something to the effect of, you know, art and commerce were not meant to be married like that.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that stuck with me because it's like, yeah, 100%.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like when you're looking at art purely through a financial lens, it is it really art anymore, you know.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's getting pretty deep, but I mean that's that tends to be why you get this, you know, um, dilution of the talent pool, you know, in some of these genres.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you know, I don't know.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you had to go back and calculate a lifespan on a genre, you probably could and kind of do all these, you know, attributes.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, so again, it's really nice to see bands like Limp Biscuit and Corn and Slipknot still still selling um tickets and and uh and really kind of carrying the torch.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I brought it up probably every single episode for like the last 15 fucking episodes, but in this modern era that we're in now, it feels like the guardrails of genre have been removed.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think whenever people look at art, we're not as quick to, and I've used this term a couple times the past few days, but we're not as quick to yuck another person's yum.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if if somebody really enjoys something, we can respect it, whether it's for us or not.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: I say that because there's obviously a lot of nostalgia turns that are kind of happening with our generation all at the same time, and it doesn't matter what genre it is, it's like it's all fucking coming back into the forefront.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what do you think particularly has galvanized the resurgence of new metal in the past couple of years and the nostalgia for it?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I think you know, in terms of the newer bands who are doing it, you know, I think that um that that virtuoso type of mass appeal has kind of worn thin.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So people want something a little bit more simplistic and a little bit more to the point.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what New Metal was, you know.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh so I think that you're starting to see some of these younger bands, you know, Spirit Box, taller bands like that, really starting to incorporate that in some of their music.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Still a little bit heavier than what you know most New Metal was doing back then, but it still has a lot of elements.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, now there's new bands coming out that you're like, yeah, that's Limpizkit, or that's you know, whatever band.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that uh it's it's wild too because um my stepdaughter, who's now 28, loves Limp Biscuit.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like obsessed with Limp Biscuit.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and for when I when we first talked about it, I was like, really?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I didn't, you know, picture you because she was, you know, very um, you know, into some really heavy stuff.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: And she started um mentioning a couple bands that I went and listened to, and I was like, oh, now I get it.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, she was into bands like Kublicon and Bad Omens and you know, pants, and it's like, okay, you've got new metal pieces in there, you know, because I think people they really wanted to kind of go back to to that simplistic now.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, during the nostalgia piece, you know, we're all getting older and and I'm having fun reliving parts of, you know, my 20s.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, that's what's doing it for me.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh, you know, there's there was just there was a lot of great music that I think was overlooked, um, you know, for a variety of reasons.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh it's nice to see, you know, bands incorporating a lot of that style nowadays.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, technology has changed dramatically in the last 25 years in terms of music production and you know, um, just instrumentation, everything's digital now.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you'd be hard pressed to find a guitar amp on a tour, you know.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so the sound has kind of morphed, but the way songs are structured, the way riffs are written, uh, it's all back to that groove, you know.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's it's kind of uh it's coming back around, I think.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's it's wild to see the next generation being like, yeah, we want to go see Limp Biscuit, you know.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh, you know, and and it's it's wild too, you know.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: My my family, we have a you know, a text, you know, group text, and it's all Fred Durst stickers, you know.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we'll go days with only sending those to each other.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's wild.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: So love it.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love it.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: But you're you're absolutely you're right.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter will go and she her playlist is all over the place.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: She'll have some like trap hip-hop songs and like listen to two or three Stevie Nick songs, and then she's listening to typo negative and the cure.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Liz, you are all over the fucking place, you know.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's that is a diverse palette, musically.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the encouraging thing that we didn't experience because if you dove outside of your genre barriers, you were a sellout, you know, or you know, but like now the these younger kids do just look at it.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Music is just music now, and uh, so you know it's it's kind of encouraging in in a lot of ways, but for sure.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's it's it's interesting to see the way people digest music now because it's completely different than than how we did back then.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we had to go to the record store and actually buy it.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Streaming wasn't a thing yet.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think, and I don't know exactly when iTunes came out, but I remember like when the iPod first came out, everybody was like floored.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: They were just nerding out.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, I've got 200 songs on this thing, and it's like this big, and you know, nowadays it's like who cares?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you fit that on a thumb drive.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we got we got billions at our fingertips that we can play at any time for 10 bucks a month, you know.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's and I think that that that plays a lot into it too, because you know, you can, you know, you can spend your$10 a month and listen to any song out there, you know, so you don't have to say, okay, I've got$10 to go buy one CD.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: What am I gonna buy?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think now it's it's a little bit more acceptable to be like, you know, and you have a lot of genre bending, you know, you have country rap, you know, and things like that.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, how did you marry those two things?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they do it very well.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not my thing per se, but they do it very well.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, I think that um that that kind of plays into it too.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: But then, you know, if you go down the kind of genre bending rabbit hole, you get back to Mr.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Bungle, and I think that that was probably the you know, nucleus of what new metal was gonna become anyway.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were to kind of dive back into your fandom, like take the musician part out of it, what's an album that came out in that era that you felt didn't get enough attention and a band that should have been much bigger than what they were?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Full Devil Jacket.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, full Devil Jacket, yep.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they're the actual debut record they put out in EP before it.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but um, yep, the the debut was just called Full Devil Jacket.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Josh Brown is probably one of my favorite singers from that time period.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was lucky enough to open um for them uh when they came through Omaha, and they have a song called Monster that when you have an entire club of people singing it, you'd be hard pressed not to cry.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's how moving the song is.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Still heavy, still new metal kind of thing.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but just an incredibly moving song.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And he was such um, I shouldn't say it was, is uh, you know, a very talented singer and and frontman.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there there was some struggles, you know, with addiction and things like that.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but they did reunite maybe 10 years ago and they did another record.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh but yeah, that would definitely be it for me.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I remember standing side stage um and just watching him sing that song, and I I remember it vividly, and it was just tragic to see that they never were able for whatever reason to get farther than they did.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh so yeah, that would be that would be my pick.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, great pick, great pick, and that that kind of brings me to a to another fun question for you.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there is a there is a mythological festival that occurred in the summer of 2000 here in Omaha area.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Were you one of the few bands that actually got stage time at the legendary Test Fest?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um or did we?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because there were two festivals that summer.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: There was there was a Rockfest, and then the Test Fest was later.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And Test Fest, just for people that don't know, Test Fest was an off day of Ozfest that basically had all of the Ozfest bands except for Ozzy and Pantera.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think, and I actually I have my credentials over there.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um amazing, yeah, and just for some people that don't know, Disturbed was setting up on stage and lightning hit the fucking stage and they had to cancel it.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't think we got to play Test Fest, but we did Rockfest.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: But kind of a interesting uh I guess the company's no longer in business, so I can tell this story now.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a buddy of mine who was in another band, who I won't mention his name, um, he was able to create fake production acts.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Access passes for that production company.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Still have that also over there.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I bought one from him.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember what I paid for it.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it totally worked.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I don't remember if we had, I mean, we had credentials, but I don't think it got us back into catering and all that.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I had both.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went back there and we had a couple of them.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember who I was with, but we were back in catering when the lighting hit the stage.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was actually in the bathroom, I was using the restroom when it happened.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I heard what happened, and everybody started freaking out and and running.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's when I had my first run-in with David Draymond.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which I don't know if Jeff and I have gone into it um in any of the episodes yet, but we probably will.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we have very strong opinions on David Draymond.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm sure, I'm sure, you know, and uh, but I remember he was talking with um the girls from Kitty uh at that point in time, and everybody was jumping over table trying to get out because nobody knew what happened, you know.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was it was definitely wild.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, that that experience was was kind of wild, and and that's one of the things that you know I'll forever be grateful for, you know, on a fake altered credential or not, you know, I got to stand, you know, in a group of people, you know, it was Sonny from POD, not to name drop, but like it was such a prolific experience for me.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like Wayne Static and Sonny from POD and you know, the girls from Kitty, like we were all standing outside together, and you know, everybody's like, Oh yeah, you know, did you get to play?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get to play?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's like for a split second, I kind of felt like I was an equal to these guys.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and it's like, whoa, what a crazy feeling, you know.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was fleeting, of course, but you know, it's like, wow.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember Sonny uh Sandoval from POD, who's was the nicest guy ever.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, he asked me, he's like, you know, if you he's like, what band are you in?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I told him, he's like, have you played yet?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, we're supposed to play in like an hour or whenever it was.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, oh man, he's like, I would have come up and checked you out.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like does anybody else have these experiences?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like the luckiest guy on earth, you know what I mean?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um on a fake credential or not.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: I made that same comment.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: I had the guys, I and I don't know if it's ever gonna see the light of day.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: I had the guys that did the or are working on the Ranch Bowl documentary on my show.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I told them, I was like, if you were in the orbit of the Ranch Bowl and their adjacent production companies, it was like the forest gump of music venues and music experiences because of all the people you would cross paths with.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was insane, it was absolutely insane, and it kind of goes to the point that you made at the beginning of the episode.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's just things that were are probably really uncommon now, were really common for us back in the day.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my Test Fest story is I got to play early in the day because my band at the time sucked, but so we played really early.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: We did not, but we played really early, and my best memory was Max Calvera of SoulFly.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: After the show got canceled, they basically parked their bus kind of adjacent to the exit.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: He got off the bus and he was handing people CDs as they were leaving the venue, like SoulFi sampler CDs.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: He was handing them hand-handing them to people himself.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: He has people for that.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: That was dope, man.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: It uh he he was another one that I was lucky enough to open for too.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um I think I did um it was it was crazy because I did like a throwback Thursday post for for Narcotic Self.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I was playing in Downshift at the time, but uh, and we had opened for Soulfly, but Narcotic opened like the show before the first time Soulfly came through.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I did like a side-by-side, like, you know, here's me, you know, opening for Soulfly, and here's you know the rest of the guys.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, he he was just an incredibly nice guy.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but yeah, it's like the stories are they just come flooding back, yeah, you know, because like you know, as you continue to to play music in whatever genre, you know, it's like you continue to have experiences and you kind of get farther away from those, and you know, um, you know, and and I'm lucky enough and in a position that I'm grateful for for where it still happens to me sometimes, you know.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, like for example, you know, end of this month, you know, we're we're playing with Fear Factory, and I've never played with Fear Factory before.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I'm just I'm forever grateful that that I'm able to to have these experiences and yeah, and open for some of these guys that were, you know, I mean, Fear Factory was one of the pillars of of new metal, you know, obsolete was that's what I was just gonna say.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Those those first two records are like elite.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's just like you know, I I get like nervous thinking about it because it's like, man, I've I've been in music since 90, whatever, you know, 30 years, you know, and I've never met Dino.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, am I gonna nerd out?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, am I gonna just totally fanboy out on this?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or like am I not gonna say anything and sit in the corner and wait to play?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh, but yeah, it's it's absolutely it's wild to to think back to some of those.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you know, again, it's I get to relive those on We Were Loud once and um and that's super fun.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: So well, talking about reliving that, and I'm sure you're very similar to me.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever have moments like now in the here and now where you think back to some of those memories and it just feels like it was only five years ago, even though it was 25 years ago?
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I do, and it's you know it it really is a scenario of uh you know, you blink and it's gone, you know.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, last time I I thought about it, I was 27, you know what I mean?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that was 20 years ago.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, wow, man, like it's crazy.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Time just you know flies.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're kind of forced to become an adult for a little while, like some of it just life hits the gas, you know.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're in your 40s and you're like, whoa, what happened?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, um, and things changed and you know, the ranch bowl is gone, and you know, so it's it's a drag.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was a drag that that place closed in the first place, but you know, that the next generation of bands, you know, didn't get to have a lot of those experiences that we did.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, not to say that that doesn't happen, you know, with with you know other production companies in the area, um, because it definitely does, but I don't think it happens to the degree that it used to.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, because I remember, you know, how how I even started to play there, you know.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: I remember there was um did you ever know Roger Armstrong, the sound guy?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: So Roger, I I couldn't have been more than 15, maybe 16.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we kind of walked up there and he happened to be outside smoking a cigarette, and you know, we started talking to him and oh yeah, we're in a band.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's like, What's your band called?
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we told him, and he's like, Oh, you know, you guys should play a show here, like, really, you know, and we were 16, 15, 16.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was terrible, terrible.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: We could play the whole corn first corn album front to back.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that was about it.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, you know, listen, I'll give you a Monday.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do well, I'll give you a Tuesday.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do well on Tuesday, you'll get a Wednesday, you know, all the way down the line.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, between '97 to you know, '99, we had made it all the way to Saturday.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we got our first headlining Saturday show.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a big deal.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I just remember him kind of I don't know, I don't remember if he winked at me or he kind of gave me a thumbs up, you know.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yeah, okay, you know.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, it was definitely sad when he passed.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, I mean, that was kind of a wild upbringing.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, as you start to bring in more people, it's like, hey, do you want to open for these guys?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to open for these guys?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're bands that I've long forgot about that that we got to play with.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I think I made a realization in real time.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, on it was either on the show, we did an episode on Human Waste Project, and um had no idea that the band, well, a couple of the guys in the band uh went on to start a band called Professional Murder Music, who we opened up for.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was in love with Human Waste Project, had no idea that those guys started PMM.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, doing my research for the show, I figured out that that was the case.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh my god, I had no idea, you know.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's it's it's still wild um to connect dots even today.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Tapping into that moment of vulnerability, just for a second, you know, do you find that doing the when we were loud once podcast is its own form of therapy aligning a more healthy relationship with nostalgia?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um or had you ever even thought of that before?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I had started to, um, just with you know what we were doing and and kind of um you know thinking about what we want to talk about, what we don't want to talk about, and um, you know, on the show, and and you know, I it has brought back a lot of of good memories.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's also brought back a lot of bad ones, um, you know, that I probably never dealt with the way I probably should have, you know, um, and uh so I'm kind of having to do that now.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I'm I'm much older um and probably in a better space mentally than I was back then, you know, to deal with some of those things.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was probably subconsciously intentional, yeah, you know, um, you know, because when when you're going through some things, you know, it it comes out in your music, and that's kind of your your therapy and and you know, um, in your release, you know, and it's like, well, some things are too big for that, I think.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to actually do the work mentally, you know.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I do think that it's allowing me to have a healthier relationship with some of those experiences, um, and then remember them, you know.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um because you know, the older you get, it's like, you know, and and they say, um, I don't know how how's it go?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: You you only remember the last time you remembered something, you know.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was like, whoa, that's heavy.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, it's kind of true, you know.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this is kind of allowing me to remember the last time I remembered these things, which was forever ago.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I hadn't thought about those fake credentials in years, even though they're hanging on my wall.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh um, but yeah, I definitely think it's it's healthy nostalgia now.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the same place, man.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I mean I opened up a I opened up, we moved into the the current house I lived in, so I've been doing my pod for five years at the very end of September, five years.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we moved into this house in 2022, and of course, when you're moving a bunch of stuff around, you just out of morbid curiosity, you want to open up a tote.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I had every single ranch bowl flyer, and including downshift and three-quarter evil flyers from the junction that I that I stumbled across.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, and and it it gave me pause.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was like three years ago that we moved in this house, and you know, I thought about that.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's two different types of nostalgia.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's the Uncle Rico vibe where you're just gonna tell everybody you did this cool thing once, and then there's the I'm telling you this thing that I did once upon a time, and hopefully you can take something away from it.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right vibe.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, braggadocious versus lessons, you know?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think firstly, definitely send me a photo of that.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll dig it out.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um if if I you know do it in any trouble, but if you if you stumble across again.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, you know, I I definitely, you know, think that um, you know, it's looking back, it's it's not to say, yeah, I did that.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I have I do wrestle with, you know, some of the stories that I tell, you know, it's just um is it, you know, am I just name dropping?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, same.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm like, well, not really, you know, I mean, sorta, but there's a point to it, you know, I'm not doing it just, you know, to do it.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the difference.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I do struggle with that.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, but ultimately, I think, you know, um I'm remembering these experiences again, you know.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's you know, it's like, yeah, I these are things that happened.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was lucky enough to experience these things.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so we don't want to broadcast it, Dan, but we're we're getting old and we're having to come to terms with our own mortality a little bit.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's yeah, I was thinking about that too, you know.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, hmm, is this podcast gonna be kind of like our like our memoir?
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, are we putting all this stuff out there to document it?
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, part of me kind of feels that way.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, I can put all this stuff out there, it's in the ethos now, and you know, and that makes it real again, you know, because until then it was only in my head, you know, and um, so that kind of gives me a little bit of a charge, you know, and uh to to keep doing it and to keep coming up with, you know, because I one of the things I asked Jeff early on, I'm like, how much is there to talk about about new metal?
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are we gonna fizzle out after like 20 episodes?
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, are we gonna be able to keep it going?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got ideas for I think over 50 or 60, you know, that we won't and it's like, man, when when those floodgates opened, they they opened.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, um, so that was kind of kind of fun.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're gonna find the more you do, the more your ideas will breed other ideas.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: Continuously.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so, because I don't want to run out of ideas for this thing, you know.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but it's also, you know, allowed me to kind of reconnect with Jeff, you know, because you know, we did, you know, we did this massive project together.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, kind of, and and I'll be honest, and and he and I have only kind of closed this loop recently.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the the show has actually allowed us to do this.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, Downshift kind of, you know, we put out that record, and um, you know, and again to kind of give folks kind of a peek into kind of what happens when a band gets signed.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I hope I'm remembering this correctly.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I am.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so Emphatic had gotten their record deal with Universal, and um they and when that happened, the the label kind of came in and kind of listened to the band and kind of figured out it's like, okay, this person's gonna work, this person's not gonna work.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and with Emphatic, it was the drummer that wasn't gonna work.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: So first person they called, to my knowledge, was our drummer, right?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: Who I had a very uh strong creative relationship with, you know, we grew up writing music together, and I still need a drummer to write music.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't, I mean, I can sit down with a guitar and kind of fiddle around and write a riff, but like if I'm gonna write a song, I I need a drummer or a drum machine, you know.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, so they approached him and he came to me and and he was like, Hey, you know, I got the call.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I'm like, okay, what did they promise you?
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: And they promised him the world, you know, this, that, and the other thing.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Hey man, if I was in your position, I would do it.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be honest with you.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so he did it.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, we brought we brought in another guy, and it just wasn't the same, you know, and um, and it kind of kind of fizzled out, you know.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, that's kind of that's kind of how it works.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I had, you know, during that kind of process of of fizzling out, I got the call from uh from Sophia, uh John actually, uh, about narcotic self.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of said, okay, I clearly did not communicate it the way I should have back then, but I kind of slowly started the transition uh over to uh to narcotic from from downshift.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, you know, that's that's kind of how it works.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, a record deal can either be the beginning or the end of your band for sure.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the bands in the periphery.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, brother, I have really enjoyed this conversation.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: My closing question is the one that I ask every single guest.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care what we're talking about, and I just love everybody's different perspective.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: What's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today based off of your experiences?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Create something every day.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's music, it's art, it's an experience.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, doesn't matter.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Create something because I'm I'm a firm believer in um creation is kind of the purpose of life, to be honest with you.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's creating music and art.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, for others, it could be creating an experience for a family member or whatever, whatever it is.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think oftentimes we find ourselves only consuming things, and you have to create something to kind of keep that cycle going.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that would be my advice.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: Create something every day.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you uh promote the podcast to everybody that's listening or watching, tell them where they can find it, and uh, you know, plug your stuff one last time, my friend.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, we were loud once.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's available on all streaming platforms, Spotify, YouTube, all that good stuff.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we do deep dives on uh New Metal Records, you know.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: As we you and I've talked about, we share our experiences with a lot of these folks and you know, give a little bit of context too.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's um I'm kind of uh despite what I may have mentioned earlier, I'm a bit of an industry nerd.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I do I'm fascinated with how bands kind of come up and how they get signed and what their stories are.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, we uh we dive deep into all that stuff.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's definitely if you're interested in email or you're just looking for something new to listen to, uh, it's definitely worth checking out.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: However, you digest your podcast, we're probably on the platform.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I love this, man.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta tell you, uh, I this warms my heart that we spent the last hour having this fantastic conversation, but it breaks my heart at the same time that we didn't do this 25 years ago.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we've known each other for a long time, man.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's it's uh it's crazy, you know.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's again, I'm grateful for you know, this this podcast and and music kind of you know bringing us back around so we're able to have this conversation, you know.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm incredibly grateful for that too.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um and uh yeah, so I I definitely appreciate it, man.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: The first of many collaborations between all of us, I'm very sure.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Dan, for doing the show.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: The world's a much better place with you and it, my friend.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: Same to you, man.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, appreciate it, and uh we'll talk soon.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, I want to thank my friend Dan Sonato for being a guest on the show today.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: Check out his podcast.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: We were loud once on your favorite podcasting platform.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_00: Check him out on YouTube, give them a follow on social media, it'll be linked in all of the Cot on the Mic stuff.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: While you are being generous with the follows, subscribes, and everything in between, make sure you are subscribing to Caught on the Mic on YouTube, following me on your favorite social media platform, and subscribing to the podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit me at www.caughton the mic.com.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of new stuff coming soon.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to share it all with you.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mic with Michael Clark.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: I am Michael Clark.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.