Latest / The Knife: A True Crime Podcast / The Fugitive Mother (Part 1 of 2)

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The Fugitive Mother (Part 1 of 2) · The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
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Speaker 1: The claims and opinions in this podcast are those of
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Speaker 1: the speaker and do not necessarily represent the Knife or
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Speaker 1: exactly right media.
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Speaker 2: What is it?
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Speaker 3: He says, I can't take medicine I'm pregnant, because oh no,
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Speaker 3: this will be really good for you. And he prescribed
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Speaker 3: me naving and Harris who called me every day, and Gil,
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Speaker 3: you take in your medicine with a good little girl.
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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Knife. I'm Hannah Smith, I'm Patia Eaton.
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Speaker 1: And this week we have part one of a two
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Speaker 1: part series, and part two will air next week. We
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Speaker 1: speak with Lee Barnett, who for many years was only
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Speaker 1: known as the woman who kidnapped her own child and disappeared,
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Speaker 1: leading to an international FBI manhunt, and then almost twenty
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Speaker 1: years later and her now adult daughter were located and
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Speaker 1: Lee was arrested.
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Speaker 4: Lee Barnett joins us to tell us her side of
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Speaker 4: the story. Over these two episodes, Lee tells us about
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Speaker 4: the events leaning up to her disappearance, why she felt
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Speaker 4: she had no choice, and what she did all those
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Speaker 4: years on the run. Let's get into the interview.
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Speaker 1: Let's just start off by having you introduce yourself whatever
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Speaker 1: name you want to use, maybe Lee, since that's what
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Speaker 1: you go by, now, is that correct?
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Speaker 2: I always introduced myself as overseas, I'm known by Alex S.
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Speaker 2: Galden Hughes.
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Speaker 3: In the US, I'm known by Lee Barnett and also
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Speaker 3: have a prison number two by the FBI. So yeah,
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Speaker 3: Lee Barnett in the United States is what I go by.
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Speaker 1: Okay, great, So tell us about that chapter in your life.
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Speaker 1: Right before all of this started, I was.
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Speaker 3: Living down in Belize because I kind of grew up
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Speaker 3: off and on there. I went to Africa for a
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Speaker 3: long time. I'm with my best friend and moved back
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Speaker 3: to the States. And when we got back from Africa,
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Speaker 3: I got hired by Piedmont Airlines back then, and so
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Speaker 3: I started working with the airlines became US Air so
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Speaker 3: I was a flight attendant with them, and then I
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Speaker 3: invested some money and that's how I met my future husband, Harris,
2:19
Speaker 3: because he was working for Marrill Lynch. I met him
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Speaker 3: at about nineteen eighty six when I went to invest
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Speaker 3: some money with him in Charleston, South Carolina. We were
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Speaker 3: just friends. He's very aloof and I'm the opposite. So
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Speaker 3: I always try and pull people out of their aloofness,
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Speaker 3: and so I started asking the cocktail parties at my
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Speaker 3: mother's house and just I have a lot of guy
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Speaker 3: friends because I do a lot of guy things, and
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Speaker 3: I kind of included him and everything. If he needed
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Speaker 3: a date to something formal, then he would ask me.
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Speaker 3: And we just went as friends for about four years.
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Speaker 4: And how did that end up going from the friend
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Speaker 4: zone to something else? Yes?
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Speaker 2: Well, I was.
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Speaker 3: Dating a Swiss pilot guy and he was quite volatile,
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Speaker 3: and Harris convinced me into coming out to his house
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Speaker 3: just to get away from this person. And one thing
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Speaker 3: led to another, and then he told me how he
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Speaker 3: felt and I was shocked, and then we got into
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Speaker 3: a relationship from there.
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Speaker 4: Were there good times in the beginning, and are you
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Speaker 4: able to share any of those with us?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a lot of good times.
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Speaker 3: I mean, hindsight, I saw that I was being isolated
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Speaker 3: from everybody. He had ten acres, nobody was allowed to
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Speaker 3: come out there without asking him first. But we did
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Speaker 3: have a lot of fun and I kind of got
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Speaker 3: him out of his hole and got him down to blize,
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Speaker 3: actually showed him where I grew up as a child
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Speaker 3: and took him to the ruins, took him to Guatemala.
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Speaker 3: We had a lot of fun when it came to
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Speaker 3: things like that. But he lived a very isolated life
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Speaker 3: and I had.
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Speaker 2: To be a part of that.
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Speaker 3: And at the time I thought it was because he
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Speaker 3: loved me so much and he wanted me for himself.
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Speaker 3: And you know, my friends were very, very nervous about
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Speaker 3: the whole situation.
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Speaker 1: Lee and Harris were two very different people. According to Lee,
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Speaker 1: Harris liked to live a very organized and controlled life. Lee,
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Speaker 1: on the other hand, was used to living a more
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Speaker 1: spontaneous life full of travel and adventure. In fact, traveling
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Speaker 1: was something she'd grown up with. Lee technically was raised
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Speaker 1: in Summerville, outside of Charleston, but when she talks about
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Speaker 1: her childhood, it sounds like they never stayed in one
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Speaker 1: place for very long.
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Speaker 3: So my dad died when I was four months old,
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Speaker 3: My brother was three, my other brother was four. Mom
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Speaker 3: just started living kind of this almost hippyish life. I
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Speaker 3: spent first grade in Somerville, Charleston, and then we moved
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Speaker 3: to Ormond Beach full time. Prior to that, when I
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Speaker 3: was three and four, we lived in the Keys because
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Speaker 3: Mom would just pack us up and off we'd go.
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Speaker 2: So I've lived in Ormond.
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Speaker 3: All through second grade till twelfth grade, but we spent
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Speaker 3: every summer, in most every Christmas down and Believes, which
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Speaker 3: used to be British on Duras back in the sixties.
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Speaker 1: Despite their differences, Lee and Harris continued to date, but
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Speaker 1: Lee admits it was never a smooth or easy relationship.
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Speaker 1: There were always bumps in the road.
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Speaker 3: Harris, it was known by everybody that he didn't want children,
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Speaker 3: couldn't stand being around him, didn't want them.
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Speaker 2: I wanted children.
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Speaker 3: So we dated for about a year, but we kept
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Speaker 3: breaking up and we called it our Friday Night breakup
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Speaker 3: because the seriousness of him.
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Speaker 2: Not wanting children and me wanting them always seemed to.
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Speaker 3: Come up on a Friday night, and then we'd get
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Speaker 3: upset and we'd both be, you know, sad, and we
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Speaker 3: ended up getting back together. And it was this very
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Speaker 3: immature thing on both of our parts, especially mine, I suppose,
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Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden he decided to want
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Speaker 3: to get married. And because you know, so it's part
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Speaker 3: of trying to heal somebody whose women all try to do.
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Speaker 3: But it's also where I was missing out on something, thinking, hey,
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Speaker 3: I must be special of all the people, and you
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Speaker 3: know he wants to marry me. So it was kind
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Speaker 3: of the combination. It was very wrong in the first place,
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Speaker 3: but we got married.
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Speaker 4: So you got married understanding that he did not want children, yes, and.
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Speaker 3: He got married on understanding that I seriously wanted children.
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Speaker 3: So it was kind of a bad combination to begin with.
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Speaker 1: In December of nineteen ninety one, Lee and Harris got married.
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Speaker 1: Lee recalls that she was thirty one years old at
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Speaker 1: the time and Harris was thirty nine.
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Speaker 4: And so you guys are married in the early nineties then,
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Speaker 4: and tell us about those first years of marriage.
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Speaker 3: Well, there wasn't even years. I was on the pill.
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Speaker 3: I was having all kind of problems with flying with
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Speaker 3: the airlines, like had super stolen lymph nodes.
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Speaker 2: It thought I had Hodgkins disease.
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Speaker 3: Hindsight, I find out fifteen years later it was diagnosed
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Speaker 3: as severe allergies. But they said, oh, you shouldn't be
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Speaker 3: on the pill. So I got off the pill and
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Speaker 3: he was going to take care of everything, and then
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Speaker 3: I ended up getting pregnant after seven months of marriage.
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Speaker 1: Was it a surprise to you? When you found out
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Speaker 1: you were pregnant.
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Speaker 2: I had no idea it was pregnant.
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Speaker 1: He knew that you would stopped taking the pill, and
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Speaker 1: there was some conversation that he was gonna get a
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Speaker 1: vsectomy or something.
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Speaker 2: He wouldn't get an aseectomy. He refused to.
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Speaker 1: So you weren't using any kind of birth control.
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Speaker 2: Except for his rhythm methody.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I see.
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Speaker 4: So you were like, Okay, I'm vaguely aware of my
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Speaker 4: cycle and we're going with that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: I was, well, yeah, I didn't really pay much attention
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Speaker 3: to my cycle.
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Speaker 2: But I was not you know.
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Speaker 3: I was like, okay, that's what you want to do,
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Speaker 3: you know, you know, condoms or things like that. But
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Speaker 3: he wasn't interested in that evidently.
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Speaker 4: I see, Wow, what was the moment of finding out
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Speaker 4: you were pregnant at home test?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's what happened.
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Speaker 3: And then I went to my guyacologist and then he
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Speaker 3: did a blood test and he said, yes, you're pregnant,
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Speaker 3: and you know that normal elation of body has I
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Speaker 3: just had pure fear.
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Speaker 2: I knew it was going to be really bad.
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Speaker 3: And every single person I called, all of my best friends,
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Speaker 3: any family members, The only thing they said was, oh
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Speaker 3: my god, how is Harris.
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Speaker 1: Wow?
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Speaker 3: So there was never like congratulations or whatever. And so
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Speaker 3: I was scared, but it also knew, you know, there's
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Speaker 3: no way I'm going to abort my child.
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Speaker 2: So that wasn't even a thought in my mind.
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Speaker 1: What were you scared of?
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Speaker 3: I was scared I'd lose him. And you know, it's
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Speaker 3: a stupid thing, because I really really loved him. I
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Speaker 3: was afraid of that. I was never afraid of what
8:35
Speaker 3: happened would happen. It didn't ever ever come to my
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Speaker 3: mind that he could be that diabolical. I just didn't
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Speaker 3: know that. I just thought, Okay, that's the end of it.
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Speaker 4: Sounds like you tell close friends and family members. When
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Speaker 4: and how do you go about telling Harris?
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Speaker 3: The first time I said it, before I went to
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Speaker 3: get the blood test, I only did the go to
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Speaker 3: the bathroom on the stick one and I said, I
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Speaker 3: have a feeling I'm pregnant, and he said that's okay,
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Speaker 3: we can just have an abortion, and I said, I
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Speaker 3: don't want an abortion. Then I did the stick and
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Speaker 3: found that I was like the next day and I
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Speaker 3: told him, and he's totally cold. He just turned away,
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Speaker 3: walked out of the house. Then he told me it
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Speaker 3: was a fate worse than death, and I went, ooh,
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Speaker 3: not going well, and then we just kind of tiptoed
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Speaker 3: around everything. He told me he was repulsed by pregnant women.
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Speaker 3: I now, this is really early early on. So I
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Speaker 3: started sleeping in the spare bedroom, thinking he's going to
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Speaker 3: come right. And I had friends over who had children,
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Speaker 3: you know, to try and get them to say how
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Speaker 3: great it is and whatever.
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Speaker 2: And it just wasn't working. It wasn't working. And then
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Speaker 2: I miscarried.
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Speaker 3: We were at a baby shower for a coworker and
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Speaker 3: I just started profusely bleeding and I said, Harris, I
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Speaker 3: didn't want to scare all the other women. I said,
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Speaker 3: we got to go. Got home and it was just blood,
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Speaker 3: and then a big plot came out in the toilet.
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Speaker 3: I called my guy to collogist straight away, and it
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Speaker 3: was Sunday, so he said, honey, there's nothing I can
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Speaker 3: do for you now. It was very early on. He said,
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Speaker 3: come in and see me tomorrow.
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Speaker 1: Lee had some blood work done at her guyn incologist's
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Speaker 1: office and it was sent off to the lab. She'd
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Speaker 1: have to wait for the results. It was a holiday weekend,
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Speaker 1: and Lee went home believing she was no longer pregnant.
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Speaker 3: So I had to wait for so long, you know,
10:25
Speaker 3: to get the test back. So for all that time,
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Speaker 3: I thought I wasn't pregnant, and Harris was the kindest
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Speaker 3: person to me.
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Speaker 2: There was nothing, you know.
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Speaker 3: Meantime, I hadn't spoken to me for two months, and
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Speaker 3: I had to sleep in the other bedroom. And now
10:39
Speaker 3: he's back to his loving, kind sweet thing. And then
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Speaker 3: I got the answer machine recording. I'll never forget pushing it.
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Speaker 3: Doctor Rumble said, I can't believe this, but you're still pregnant.
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Speaker 1: Somehow, Lee was still pregnant, and while she was elated,
10:55
Speaker 1: she also had a sinking feeling. She knew that her
10:59
Speaker 1: husband would not be happy. According to Lee, when she
11:02
Speaker 1: told Harris that she was still pregnant, he turned and
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Speaker 1: walked right out of the house.
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Speaker 4: And so as your pregnancy progressed, how did Harris and
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Speaker 4: his response change from there?
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Speaker 1: If at all I.
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Speaker 3: Had to sleep in the other room, he wouldn't touch me.
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Speaker 3: I guess it was about when I was doing a
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Speaker 3: half months pregnant. It's right on the borderline of the abortion.
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Speaker 2: Time.
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Speaker 3: I came home and I just said, oh, I just
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Speaker 3: saw a really cute church. I said, I think we
11:31
Speaker 3: should see about joining, and he goes, you know, I'm
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Speaker 3: an atheist and I'm.
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Speaker 2: Not a very religious person either of I said, well,
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Speaker 2: we're going to.
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Speaker 3: Have a family now, it'd be really nice to join.
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Speaker 3: So I just drove by this really cute place and
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Speaker 3: he said, we are not going to be a family.
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Speaker 3: He was sitting on the floor watching a baseball game.
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Speaker 3: He said, you're going to have an abortion. And I
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Speaker 3: picked up.
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Speaker 2: The coffee table.
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Speaker 3: It was a long coffee table by the end, and
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Speaker 3: I dropped it and I said, I am not having
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Speaker 3: an abortion.
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Speaker 2: And then I went to.
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Speaker 3: Spare bedroom and woke up the next morning he was gone.
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Speaker 3: And that was the end of that.
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Speaker 4: That was the end of your relationship.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, he never came back. He wanted me out of
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Speaker 3: his house and I didn't leave. And that was the
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Speaker 3: next biggest mistake I made.
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Speaker 1: Why didn't you leave?
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Speaker 3: I told everybody if I left and he changed his mind,
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Speaker 3: I would never be able to forgive him. If I
12:23
Speaker 3: stayed there and he changed his mind, then I could
12:27
Speaker 3: get over what he's done. And so I thought within time,
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Speaker 3: and seeing the pregnancy progress, you know, and things like that,
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Speaker 3: and people trying to speak sense to him that maybe
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Speaker 3: he would change his mind.
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Speaker 4: So the relationship, he's gone. You're still in the house,
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Speaker 4: but you're continuing on with your pregnancy.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, Harris walked out October fifteenth, nineteen ninety two.
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Speaker 1: Lee has long maintained that it was the pregnancy and
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Speaker 1: her refusal to have an abortion that created this rift
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Speaker 1: in their marriage. On an episode of forty eight Hours,
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Speaker 1: a close friend of Lee's is interviewed, and she said
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Speaker 1: she was also aware that Harris did not want children.
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Speaker 1: She also said she urged Lee not to marry Harris
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Speaker 1: in the first place. Now, I want to note this
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Speaker 1: is Lee's account. We did not speak to Harris for
13:17
Speaker 1: this episode, but according to court documents, which we'll get
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Speaker 1: into later, Harris offered a very different explanation as to
13:24
Speaker 1: why the marriage fell apart. In interviews, he has also
13:28
Speaker 1: said he never asked Lee to have an abortion. What
13:31
Speaker 1: becomes clear very quickly is that Lee and Harris tell
13:35
Speaker 1: fundamentally different stories about their relationship, about the pregnancy, about
13:40
Speaker 1: what went wrong and who is to blame, And as
13:44
Speaker 1: the legal battle unfolds, those differences only get bigger, Lee
13:48
Speaker 1: will face allegations. She says she never could have imagined
13:52
Speaker 1: she will walk into a courtroom that, to her feels
13:54
Speaker 1: like a nightmare. Looking back now, she says, if she'd
13:58
Speaker 1: known what was coming, she would have made different choices.
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Speaker 1: Maybe she wouldn't have been so focused on trying to
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Speaker 1: repair a marriage that was already fracturing. But back in
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Speaker 1: the winter of nineteen ninety two, as Lee's pregnancy progressed,
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Speaker 1: she still held onto this hope of creating a loving
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Speaker 1: family with Harris, of raising this baby together.
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Speaker 3: I thought he was just licking his wounds, trying to
14:24
Speaker 3: come right, you know. I tried to show him the
14:27
Speaker 3: ultrasound results. He called the police on me. I met
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Speaker 3: him at a restaurant.
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Speaker 4: Did you know he was at the restaurant or did
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Speaker 4: you show up a meeting there?
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Speaker 2: Okay, he said he would meet me there.
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Speaker 3: I said I had something to show him, which is
14:40
Speaker 3: going to be the because he kept telling me there's
14:41
Speaker 3: no baby over and over again, even as big as
14:44
Speaker 3: I was, so, I was so excited about the ultrasound pictures.
14:48
Speaker 3: So we were sitting down and I pulled him out
14:50
Speaker 3: and he just went nuts. And he's like that doesn't
14:52
Speaker 3: prove anything. He took off, threw some money on the table,
14:56
Speaker 3: and it was raining, and he went and jumped in
14:58
Speaker 3: his car, and I tried to get in the passenger's side,
15:01
Speaker 3: and he said, I'm calling the police, and he starts
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Speaker 3: calling the police and I'm standing out there in the rain,
15:06
Speaker 3: and then the police came up.
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Speaker 4: How did he call the police? Did he have a
15:11
Speaker 4: cell phone?
15:12
Speaker 2: Yes, he did, he had one of those car ones.
15:14
Speaker 3: Oh wowah, the big, big old car ones. I don't
15:17
Speaker 3: think he called in the restaurant now. I think he
15:19
Speaker 3: was one of the first people that had those big,
15:21
Speaker 3: chunky things.
15:22
Speaker 4: And so when the police show up, Harris has told
15:25
Speaker 4: them what he said.
15:26
Speaker 2: I'm attacking him. I'm bothering.
15:29
Speaker 3: I'm following him everywhere, and I'm like, no, I met
15:31
Speaker 3: him at the restaurant, you know, and I'm holding my
15:34
Speaker 3: little ultrasound pictures for the police to see, and I said,
15:37
Speaker 3: I just want to show him there is a baby.
15:39
Speaker 2: There is a baby.
15:40
Speaker 3: And they told him to leave, and they sat there
15:42
Speaker 3: and talked to me for a few minutes and they
15:44
Speaker 3: were just really sweet.
15:46
Speaker 1: You know, this period of time, I want to ask
15:49
Speaker 1: because it's clear that things were becoming more and more
15:53
Speaker 1: tense between you and Harris, and it sounds like you
15:57
Speaker 1: still had this hope or belief that like may be
16:00
Speaker 1: something on work out, and you were like fighting for that,
16:02
Speaker 1: and he was clearly holding to his stance that he
16:06
Speaker 1: was very anti having a baby. And you know that
16:10
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be a family if you were't gonna have
16:11
Speaker 1: an abortion. He wasn't going to be a part of this.
16:14
Speaker 1: You know. Later he would go on to say things
16:18
Speaker 1: and accuse you of physical violence and an uncontrollable temper
16:23
Speaker 1: and talk about this time in your relationship is being
16:26
Speaker 1: very volatile. You know, what can you tell us about that?
16:30
Speaker 3: The only time we ever had any fight was prior
16:35
Speaker 3: to all this. We were in bonn Air. We're walking
16:38
Speaker 3: down the beach and nice To been telling him a
16:40
Speaker 3: story about some sailboat and Harris was very proud of
16:44
Speaker 3: his He said, his greatest weapon in the world is
16:47
Speaker 3: his language, because he's incredibly bright. And he interrupted me,
16:53
Speaker 3: and I was telling him, I said, why do you
16:54
Speaker 3: always interrupt me? And he said, because the stupid words
16:58
Speaker 3: that come out of your mouth and the stupid things
17:00
Speaker 3: you say, I just can't take it.
17:02
Speaker 2: Something to that effect. And I just said I've had it.
17:05
Speaker 3: And we get back to the hotel, and I said,
17:07
Speaker 3: the things I say might not be as articulate as you,
17:10
Speaker 3: however they're meaningful to me because he'd always use words
17:13
Speaker 3: that nobody could understand. So I get up to the
17:16
Speaker 3: room and he kept right behind me, just going at me,
17:20
Speaker 3: and I kept walking away from him, walking away. I
17:22
Speaker 3: went into the bathroom and he pushed the bathroom open
17:26
Speaker 3: and bathroom door open, and then I just said, just
17:29
Speaker 3: leave me alone, and I turned around and I slapped him,
17:32
Speaker 3: And like an idiot, I told everybody that because I
17:34
Speaker 3: just don't keep any secrets, I slapped him one time.
17:38
Speaker 3: Then the other time, when he first told me I
17:40
Speaker 3: had to have an abortion, I went out on the
17:43
Speaker 3: porch and I just had these pots that I'd put
17:45
Speaker 3: flowers in, and I pushed them off the porch, and
17:48
Speaker 3: then the coffee table. And those are the only three
17:50
Speaker 3: things that ever happened. If anybody, he was very abusive
17:56
Speaker 3: physically to me one time.
17:58
Speaker 1: Harris has portrayed Lee in court documents and in interviews
18:02
Speaker 1: as angry and volatile. Lee, for her part, has described
18:07
Speaker 1: Harris as controlling, cruel, and at least once physically violent.
18:12
Speaker 1: What follows is messy, contentious, the kind of unraveling where
18:17
Speaker 1: allegations pile up and clarity becomes harder to find. The
18:21
Speaker 1: line between truth and exaggeration starts to blur depending on
18:26
Speaker 1: who you ask. It becomes kind of a classic, he said,
18:30
Speaker 1: she said, And in a court room that can be
18:33
Speaker 1: a tipping point, because ultimately someone will be believed and
18:37
Speaker 1: someone will not. For Lee, the months leading up to
18:40
Speaker 1: the divorce trial were incredibly stressful. With every filing, every accusation,
18:46
Speaker 1: the walls seem to close in tighter, pushing her toward
18:50
Speaker 1: a future that will feel so impossible she'll eventually decide
18:55
Speaker 1: the only way out is to run. Lee has claimed
19:08
Speaker 1: there was one time when Harris was physically violent with her.
19:12
Speaker 1: She says it happened when she was about seven months pregnant,
19:15
Speaker 1: and that her friend Patricia was witnessed to it.
19:19
Speaker 3: So I had a girlfriend over who just had a baby,
19:22
Speaker 3: so she came over. Her car wasn't there, and he
19:26
Speaker 3: slammed me up against his car, and he pulled his
19:30
Speaker 3: hand back to hit me, and then he stopped, and
19:33
Speaker 3: my girlfriend was inside and she was so scared for
19:35
Speaker 3: her baby and herself that she went and hid in
19:38
Speaker 3: the bedroom and he either got a glimpse of her
19:42
Speaker 3: in there or something, and he just stopped.
19:44
Speaker 1: This incident that Lee is talking about was discussed at
19:47
Speaker 1: the trial. In February of nineteen ninety four. Lee's friend
19:51
Speaker 1: Patricia was called to the stand and she described that incident,
19:55
Speaker 1: which had occurred about a year prior, around February of
19:58
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, when Lee was still pregnant. Patricia says
20:02
Speaker 1: that she was a reluctant witness to an encounter between
20:06
Speaker 1: Lee and Harris. At the time, Patricia was visiting Lee,
20:10
Speaker 1: helping her paint the nursery when a car pulled up.
20:13
Speaker 1: It was Harris, and according to Patricia, Lee turned to
20:17
Speaker 1: her and said that Harris was supposed to call before
20:20
Speaker 1: coming by, but he had not called, so Lee left
20:23
Speaker 1: the house to see what he wanted. Patricia became worried
20:27
Speaker 1: for Lee, so she went into the kitchen to look
20:30
Speaker 1: through the window to see what was happening outside. In
20:33
Speaker 1: her testimony, she says, quote I saw Lee in a
20:37
Speaker 1: very vulnerable position up against the car, with Harris in
20:41
Speaker 1: a dominating position with his one hand restraining her wrist
20:46
Speaker 1: end quote Patricia said that she then fled back to
20:50
Speaker 1: the nursery afraid. Eventually Lee came back inside the house
20:54
Speaker 1: and she seemed shaken up. Patricia also mentions that her
20:58
Speaker 1: husband did not want her getting involved because he worked
21:02
Speaker 1: at Merrill Lynch with Harris. Patricia testified that at one
21:05
Speaker 1: point she and Lee became aware that Harris was screening
21:09
Speaker 1: Lee's calls at the office, so that when Lee tried
21:12
Speaker 1: to get a hold of him, she was not able to. Now,
21:15
Speaker 1: there is some debate in the trial about when exactly
21:18
Speaker 1: Harris dropped by unexpectedly to see Lee that day and
21:22
Speaker 1: whether or not it was a violation of a restraining order,
21:26
Speaker 1: but eventually, both Lee and Harris would be granted restraining
21:29
Speaker 1: orders against each other before the trial even took place.
21:33
Speaker 1: But back in early nineteen ninety three, Lee continued to
21:36
Speaker 1: hope that she and Harris would reconcile, so much so
21:39
Speaker 1: that she and Harris decided to go to marriage counseling.
21:42
Speaker 1: Lee said they went to go see an episcopal priest
21:45
Speaker 1: and Lee liked him, but Harris did not, so they
21:49
Speaker 1: agreed to continue looking for a marriage counselor.
21:53
Speaker 3: Then I get a phone call from my mother who
21:56
Speaker 3: said a friend of hers goes to a psychiatrist that
22:00
Speaker 3: is really renowned, and.
22:02
Speaker 2: Why don't I give him a call?
22:04
Speaker 3: And I said, well, mom, Harris would never and my
22:07
Speaker 3: mom is not a good person, so I'm just saying
22:09
Speaker 3: that out front, so she is what she is. And
22:13
Speaker 3: I said, Mom, Harris will never accept to go to
22:16
Speaker 3: a psychiatrist. He says, that's whitch doctor stuff. So she said, well,
22:19
Speaker 3: here's the guy's name. Give him a call. And I
22:22
Speaker 3: called to me said he'd see us for marriage counseling.
22:24
Speaker 3: I called Harris and he said, yeah, I'll go. Where's
22:27
Speaker 3: the directions? How do you get there? It was only
22:30
Speaker 3: a couple of blocks from his office. So we go
22:33
Speaker 3: for marriage counseling. I set the whole thing up, I
22:35
Speaker 3: organize everything. I think I've been paid for it to
22:39
Speaker 3: my insurance with the airlines. We went and once again
22:42
Speaker 3: he was very belligerent, very cold, and I'm crying and
22:46
Speaker 3: telling me, you know, you know, this is just a
22:49
Speaker 3: miserable situation and all that, and so we kept going
22:54
Speaker 3: for marriage counseling.
22:56
Speaker 1: Lee recalls what would later become a pivotal session that
23:00
Speaker 1: she had with this psychiatrist. We will call him doctor A.
23:04
Speaker 1: During a session with Lee and Harris, she said doctor
23:08
Speaker 1: A turned to her and said that she wasn't handling
23:12
Speaker 1: things very well, and Lee's response was that yes, she'd
23:16
Speaker 1: had a hard time. She described the tumultuous past few months,
23:21
Speaker 1: the unexpected pregnancy, the pressure to have an abortion, the
23:25
Speaker 1: scare of a potential miscarriage, and then the shock that
23:28
Speaker 1: she was still pregnant. She later had an additional scare
23:32
Speaker 1: that her child would have a genetic disorder, although further
23:35
Speaker 1: testing showed that that was not the case. And in
23:38
Speaker 1: the midst of all of this, her husband left her,
23:42
Speaker 1: and while she hoped they could reconcile, she was also
23:45
Speaker 1: preparing for the reality that she might be a single mom.
23:49
Speaker 1: She had been through a lot, to say the least.
23:53
Speaker 3: I've cried a few times in here. I don't think
23:55
Speaker 3: that that's out of the norm. He gives no, No,
23:58
Speaker 3: I'll give you something to make you feel a lot better.
24:00
Speaker 3: And Harris was in there when this happened.
24:02
Speaker 1: What is it?
24:03
Speaker 3: He said, I can't take medicine, I'm pregnant, and he goes, oh, no,
24:06
Speaker 3: this will be really good for you, and he prescribed
24:08
Speaker 3: me Navan and Harris would call me every day and go,
24:12
Speaker 3: are you taking your medicine like a good little girl.
24:14
Speaker 3: You'd being a good little girl and taking your medicine. Meantime,
24:17
Speaker 3: he'd call me all the time. You go, you're sick,
24:19
Speaker 3: You're insane. This is why I said about things were
24:22
Speaker 3: going weird. I was out with my girlfriend, who was
24:25
Speaker 3: my infectious disease specialist, and we're out for dinner and
24:28
Speaker 3: she said, Lee, I'm so proud of how you're handling
24:30
Speaker 3: everything you've gone through. And I said, well, you should
24:32
Speaker 3: tell doctor that he's put me on medication. And she
24:35
Speaker 3: said what medication? I said, naving. She goes, Lee, that's
24:39
Speaker 3: an antipsychotic medication. You'll lose your child. How many of
24:44
Speaker 3: you taken? And I'd taken three w and I went,
24:49
Speaker 3: it's a what because he keeps it. It'll just calm
24:51
Speaker 3: your nerves so you're not so upset. It'll help your pregnancy.
24:55
Speaker 3: And so that's when I said everything just wasn't adding up.
24:59
Speaker 1: We do not access to Lee's medical records, but she
25:02
Speaker 1: said that she trusted doctor Ay and so she took
25:05
Speaker 1: this medicine, not knowing it was an antipsychotic. Naving is
25:10
Speaker 1: a high potency, antipsychotic medication often prescribed to patients diagnosed
25:15
Speaker 1: with schizophrenia. It seemed unusual to Lee at the time
25:20
Speaker 1: that she'd been given an antipsychotic, because, as far as
25:23
Speaker 1: she was aware, she did not have a diagnosed psychiatric disorder. Regardless,
25:29
Speaker 1: it was now part of her medical record that she'd
25:31
Speaker 1: been prescribed naving and that she had taken it.
25:36
Speaker 3: Then one day I was in there and Harris was late,
25:40
Speaker 3: and he's never late.
25:41
Speaker 2: Then he comes walking.
25:42
Speaker 3: And he opens the door and he goes, I'm just
25:44
Speaker 3: going to tell you I want to divorce. I don't
25:46
Speaker 3: want anything more to do with this, So I start crying.
25:49
Speaker 3: He leaves.
25:51
Speaker 1: Even after everything that they'd been through, Lee was shocked,
25:55
Speaker 1: but she was finally starting to realize Harris wasn't going
25:58
Speaker 1: to change. He wasn't going to suddenly decide that he
26:01
Speaker 1: wanted to reunite with her and raise a child together.
26:04
Speaker 1: Their relationship was over. Lee's attorney filed for a divorce,
26:10
Speaker 1: and Li said it was only once the legal proceedings
26:13
Speaker 1: started that she realized how ugly things were going to get,
26:17
Speaker 1: that this divorce was going to be more contentious than
26:20
Speaker 1: she ever could have imagined.
26:23
Speaker 3: They stood up that they were countersuing on grounds of
26:26
Speaker 3: physical abuse that he suffered from post traumatics disorder. I
26:30
Speaker 3: don't think that countersuit went in for a divorce. I
26:32
Speaker 3: think that was just some grandioso thing to do in
26:35
Speaker 3: the courtroom. But we just were shocked, you know, my
26:38
Speaker 3: new lawyer and I were like what And then everything
26:41
Speaker 3: starts tying together. Meantime, I'm still seeing doctor book because
26:45
Speaker 3: I think I'm doing the right thing. And of course
26:48
Speaker 3: I told doctor I'm not touching that medication. I don't
26:50
Speaker 3: know why you'd get a bit to me. But I'm
26:52
Speaker 3: still seeing him because I'm trying to maintain some semblance
26:55
Speaker 3: of doing the right thing.
26:57
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah.
26:58
Speaker 3: And then I got a call from my mother's childhood
27:02
Speaker 3: friend who would come and stay with her from Chicago
27:04
Speaker 3: for three months. And she says, Lee, you've got to
27:06
Speaker 3: come to Somerville. I'm with your mother. And I go,
27:09
Speaker 3: what do you mean? My mom lived half the year
27:11
Speaker 3: and Belize and half the year in Charleston or Somerville.
27:15
Speaker 3: So I drove to Somerville and walked in. She goes,
27:17
Speaker 3: your mother has something to give you.
27:19
Speaker 2: I go, what's that? Finally her friend handed me over
27:23
Speaker 2: his paper. She said, I was at the house.
27:27
Speaker 3: It was Halloween, October thirty first, remember he left me
27:30
Speaker 3: October fifteenth when he called your mother and said, I
27:35
Speaker 3: need you to sign these papers to get Lee institutionalized.
27:39
Speaker 3: And I said what She said, yes, and she said
27:42
Speaker 3: your mom said no, two people can't sign it. You
27:45
Speaker 3: have to have a doctor's signature. She hands me the
27:48
Speaker 3: piece of paper. It was a letter he wrote to
27:50
Speaker 3: her down in Belize, thanking her forgetting me to see doctor,
27:56
Speaker 3: and that they had been seeing doctor for two months
28:00
Speaker 3: prior to me ever going for marriage counseling.
28:03
Speaker 1: This was a letter from Harris to your mother that
28:07
Speaker 1: your mother's friend found and sort of forced your mom
28:11
Speaker 1: to come clean to you and tell you the situation.
28:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was the end of March ninety three.
28:20
Speaker 1: Lee originally believed that doctor A, the psychiatrist she'd seen
28:23
Speaker 1: with Harris who prescribed her naving, was recommended by a
28:27
Speaker 1: friend of her mother's. She'd believed that the day that
28:30
Speaker 1: she and Harris walked into his office for their first
28:33
Speaker 1: marriage counseling session was the first time that either of
28:36
Speaker 1: them had met Doctor A, but that was not true.
28:41
Speaker 1: It turns out Harris was the one who found doctor A,
28:44
Speaker 1: and he involved Lee's mother, Dottie, all without Lee's knowledge.
28:49
Speaker 1: This is confirmed in court records. Doctor A is called
28:52
Speaker 1: to testify at trial, and he explains that he talked
28:56
Speaker 1: on the phone with and met in person with both
28:59
Speaker 1: Harris and Dottie prior to ever meeting or speaking with Lee.
29:04
Speaker 1: Based on what comes after and how critical the conversation
29:07
Speaker 1: around mental health would become in this trial, it's hard
29:12
Speaker 1: not to see this as a calculated move. Why did
29:15
Speaker 1: Harris need to speak with doctor A first secretly and
29:18
Speaker 1: why did he need to involve Lee's mother, Dottie. What
29:21
Speaker 1: becomes clear is that Harris's legal team argues that Lee
29:26
Speaker 1: was mentally unwell, that her mental health issues were severe
29:30
Speaker 1: enough to drive Harris away. He says it was not
29:33
Speaker 1: the pregnancy that made him leave, but Lee's mental health problems,
29:38
Speaker 1: and the explanation given as to why Harris spoke to
29:41
Speaker 1: doctor A in secret prior to him meetingly comes off
29:46
Speaker 1: like someone arranging an intervention. Doctor A's testimony reveals that
29:51
Speaker 1: Harris came to him in distress and told him that
29:54
Speaker 1: his wife, Lee was out of control and needed help.
29:58
Speaker 1: Lee's mother, Dottie, seems to to confirm this portrayal of Lee.
30:02
Speaker 1: Doctor A says that Dottie told him Lee was manipulative,
30:07
Speaker 1: had a flaring temper, and a long history of difficulties.
30:11
Speaker 1: Dottie said that she was worried for Harris, that Harris
30:14
Speaker 1: was scared for his life, which indicates that Dottie thought
30:18
Speaker 1: there was some world in which Lee might hurt or
30:21
Speaker 1: kill Harris. Dottie even said she thought Lee might have
30:25
Speaker 1: a gun. The way that Harris and Dottie spoke to
30:29
Speaker 1: doctor A about Lee portrayed her as a danger to Harris,
30:34
Speaker 1: to herself, and potentially in the future, to her baby.
30:39
Speaker 1: Before Lee set foot in that office, she was already
30:42
Speaker 1: painted as someone who was not in touch with reality,
30:45
Speaker 1: someone dangerous, and someone who might need medical intervention. And
30:50
Speaker 1: what was your mom's relationship with Harris at that time?
30:53
Speaker 1: Did she like him? Like? What was her relationship with Harris?
30:56
Speaker 1: And with you?
30:57
Speaker 3: I guess I got mom to see Harris as a stockbroker,
31:02
Speaker 3: so all her money was invested with him. He couldn't
31:05
Speaker 3: stand my mother. She wasn't even allowed at our house.
31:08
Speaker 2: So this is how smart he is, So he.
31:10
Speaker 3: Knows that she craves attention, and so when he was
31:14
Speaker 3: setting me all up after I refused to have an abortion,
31:17
Speaker 3: which all the whole snowball happened like this, unbeknownst to me,
31:21
Speaker 3: he called her and said, you know, I love your
31:23
Speaker 3: daughter so much, but she's got all these mental problems.
31:26
Speaker 3: You know, I need your help because you're such an
31:28
Speaker 3: amazing single mother, just like mine, and you know.
31:31
Speaker 2: All of this craft. And that's what basically the letter
31:33
Speaker 2: said too. And I had no idea.
31:37
Speaker 4: Can you speak to any sort of questions around your
31:41
Speaker 4: mental health prior to Harris in your life?
31:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was zero, nothing, no doctors.
31:49
Speaker 3: I'd never done anything untoward, never in my entire life.
32:00
Speaker 1: As soon as she discovered that Harris and her mother,
32:02
Speaker 1: Dottie had spoken with doctor A prior to Lee meeting him,
32:06
Speaker 1: she stopped seeing Doctor A. She then found a different,
32:10
Speaker 1: reputable psychiatrist in Charleston and began seeing him. What Lee
32:14
Speaker 1: didn't realize at the time was that the damage had
32:17
Speaker 1: been done and that Doctor A's testimony at trial would
32:21
Speaker 1: not be good for her. Lee felt betrayed by her
32:24
Speaker 1: mother that her mother would go along with Harris's plan.
32:28
Speaker 1: Lee was hurt but not that surprised my mom is.
32:32
Speaker 3: You know, the diagnosis could be extreme narcissism. Back then,
32:37
Speaker 3: we didn't even I didn't even know what that meant.
32:39
Speaker 3: You know, everything's so different back then than it is now.
32:42
Speaker 3: She's very immature, you know, we had this really crazy childhood.
32:46
Speaker 2: But it's maturity, isn't that where she has?
32:50
Speaker 4: Your belief or perspective on how this played out is
32:54
Speaker 4: that Harris was manipulating your mother, who you are already
33:00
Speaker 4: did not maybe have the most trusting relationship with, and
33:05
Speaker 4: it was all calculated.
33:08
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, my brother uses that excuse all the time,
33:12
Speaker 3: and my brother is fantastic. My other brother died while
33:14
Speaker 3: I was gone, but my brother used the excuse of
33:17
Speaker 3: the time that Harris manipulated her.
33:19
Speaker 2: I think she knew what she was doing.
33:21
Speaker 3: Which is a very sad, horrible thing, but it's a
33:24
Speaker 3: realistic thing.
33:26
Speaker 1: Yeah.
33:26
Speaker 4: But you think she was motivated in part because Harris
33:29
Speaker 4: was managing her money.
33:31
Speaker 3: No, I think it's because he didn't like her, and
33:34
Speaker 3: Nolvison he's paying her attention and now all of a
33:36
Speaker 3: sudden he likes her and he's complimenting her on being
33:39
Speaker 3: a single mother and doing an amazing job, and he
33:42
Speaker 3: just wants to help her poor daughter. But I don't
33:45
Speaker 3: think she had all ever believed that there was anything
33:47
Speaker 3: wrong with me. All of us were really good kids.
33:50
Speaker 1: So all of this is kind of coming to light
33:53
Speaker 1: for you. There's a lot going on, So can you
33:55
Speaker 1: kind of just walk us through the timeline here of
33:58
Speaker 1: like when that's happening when you give birth and leading
34:01
Speaker 1: us up to the divorce proceedings.
34:05
Speaker 2: So things got pretty quiet.
34:07
Speaker 3: I had this brilliant psychiatrist and gynecologists, and then I
34:11
Speaker 3: go in to have Samantha, and we made it so
34:14
Speaker 3: there was a court order that he could not come
34:18
Speaker 3: in that day. It could not bother me while I'm
34:20
Speaker 3: trying to give birth, and I was doing everything to
34:23
Speaker 3: have her because she was way overdue, and so they
34:25
Speaker 3: finally had to induce her. So I knew when I
34:27
Speaker 3: was going to have her. So my girlfriend, Patty, who
34:30
Speaker 3: went through all the lama's classes and everything else with me,
34:33
Speaker 3: she and I went in to the hospital and then
34:36
Speaker 3: they could not she was too big. So finally, after
34:40
Speaker 3: many many hours, they had to do an emergency sea section.
34:44
Speaker 3: And when they did that c section efforts, they handed
34:46
Speaker 3: it to Patty first, and then they handed it to me,
34:49
Speaker 3: and then they said I was bleeding out. They had
34:52
Speaker 3: to chase Patty out, and then they knocked me out,
34:56
Speaker 3: and all I remember waking up and hearing Patty was
34:59
Speaker 3: the kind of this girl in the whole world going,
35:01
Speaker 3: You're not supposed to be here. What are you doing here?
35:05
Speaker 3: And Harris and his mother had come to the hospital
35:08
Speaker 3: and his mother said, you don't know what my son
35:11
Speaker 3: has been through. And Patty goes, I have just seen
35:13
Speaker 3: what Lee's been through. I wasn't you know, in the
35:15
Speaker 3: operating room, and and it was got really ugly, and
35:20
Speaker 3: they because there was a court order, they the police
35:22
Speaker 3: told him to leave. So then I'm in my room
35:25
Speaker 3: and I said, well, Harris can come and visit her,
35:29
Speaker 3: because she was in my room with me. I said,
35:32
Speaker 3: but he has to come alone because I'm not going
35:34
Speaker 3: to have witnesses to say I beat him or I
35:37
Speaker 3: did anything on tooward to him, you know, because I
35:41
Speaker 3: now I know everything he's I thought I knew everything
35:43
Speaker 3: he'd already been setting me up with. So they agreed
35:46
Speaker 3: on that, and he came in and.
35:48
Speaker 2: I said, Harris, have got a nurse her.
35:50
Speaker 3: Could you please walk over to the window and look out,
35:54
Speaker 3: because this is a man who was repulsed by a
35:56
Speaker 3: pregnant woman who never wanted this baby.
35:59
Speaker 2: And I hear this noise and I look.
36:01
Speaker 3: Up and he's clicking pictures of me nursing with his camera.
36:06
Speaker 3: And I just felt so violated and so discussing, and
36:08
Speaker 3: I was like, please just get out.
36:10
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, know, as someone who has claimed
36:14
Speaker 1: that he never wants children, never wants to be a father,
36:17
Speaker 1: what did you observe in him when he came to
36:20
Speaker 1: the hospital and met Savannah Her name was the Savannah
36:23
Speaker 1: at the time, Yes.
36:24
Speaker 3: Savannah, Yeah, and he was holding her. And what does
36:27
Speaker 3: he do? If there was a definition of the first selfie,
36:30
Speaker 3: that was Harris. He would take pictures of himself everywhere.
36:33
Speaker 3: So there he is taking a picture of him with Savannah's.
36:36
Speaker 3: All he did was take like fifty million pictures so
36:37
Speaker 3: he could show people what a great daddy was.
36:40
Speaker 2: Always said to me is.
36:41
Speaker 3: Why did she take that black hair on her ears?
36:43
Speaker 3: And he said, and these fingernails were discussing. I'm going
36:46
Speaker 3: to get a nail clipper out. I said, no, you're
36:47
Speaker 3: not getting a nail clipper out. And that's all I really.
36:50
Speaker 1: Remember, Lee's daughter's birth certificate reads Savannah Lee Barnett, which
36:57
Speaker 1: is Lee's last name, not Harris's. Savanna's name would later
37:01
Speaker 1: be changed to Samantha, which is why Lee sometimes calls
37:04
Speaker 1: her that Lisa. That Harris only visited her once in
37:07
Speaker 1: the hospital, the incident in which he snapped photos of
37:10
Speaker 1: Savannah and of Lee breastfeeding, and then he never came back.
37:14
Speaker 1: In fact, she said she left the hospital, she went home,
37:17
Speaker 1: and she didn't see or hear from Harris for weeks.
37:21
Speaker 4: The pictures thing is surprising to me because it seems
37:25
Speaker 4: like he was vocal with everyone in his life that
37:28
Speaker 4: he didn't want children, and so this about face to
37:32
Speaker 4: then be wanting to snap a lot of photos for
37:36
Speaker 4: the purposes of, you know, maybe portraying himself as a
37:40
Speaker 4: doting dad.
37:42
Speaker 3: So he had to pretend he was something he wasn't.
37:44
Speaker 3: He meets me, who's from Charleston, he's working at his
37:48
Speaker 3: uncle's Merrill Lynch office. Every single thing way he dressed,
37:53
Speaker 3: the way he moved, the way he spoke was.
37:55
Speaker 2: All an act.
37:57
Speaker 3: So when it came to me having the baby, he
38:00
Speaker 3: could not pretend that he didn't want the baby. I mean,
38:03
Speaker 3: he had to pretend that he was interested. So he
38:05
Speaker 3: had to pretend that that he had to get pictures
38:07
Speaker 3: and show what a good daddy was. But now meantime,
38:10
Speaker 3: he's told everybody in Charleston that I'm so mentally insane
38:14
Speaker 3: that he fears for his life and all the restless stuff.
38:18
Speaker 3: So when I take her home by myself, he's still
38:23
Speaker 3: lying everybody and telling him that he's seeing his daughter
38:26
Speaker 3: and whatever. So after six weeks of not seeing him
38:29
Speaker 3: or something left, I think it was six weeks, maybe seven,
38:33
Speaker 3: I see a secretary. I'm with Savannah with my girlfriend
38:36
Speaker 3: at a restaurant and she goes, oh my gosh, she
38:39
Speaker 3: looks just like Harris and I we'll tell him that
38:41
Speaker 3: because he hasn't seen her.
38:43
Speaker 2: The second biggest mistake of my life.
38:46
Speaker 3: So now everybody's saying, how can you let this mentally
38:49
Speaker 3: insane woman take your youborn home and have no supervision
38:53
Speaker 3: or you know, she's so dangerous. So now he has
38:57
Speaker 3: to start backtracking, tracking, tracking, try and covers tracks, and
39:01
Speaker 3: that's when they went for custody, because how could you
39:06
Speaker 3: let this horrible woman have this baby.
39:09
Speaker 4: He has said he doesn't want kids, that he has
39:11
Speaker 4: no interest in being a father. Then there's the moment
39:15
Speaker 4: at the hospital where he's taking a lot of selfies
39:17
Speaker 4: and he's told people that you are unwell mentally, and
39:21
Speaker 4: so it's like this sort of I don't know if
39:23
Speaker 4: the word is incongruent, but it's like, it's not what
39:27
Speaker 4: I would do if I didn't want the responsibility of parenthood,
39:30
Speaker 4: if I didn't want that responsibility, I would say, well,
39:34
Speaker 4: she's got it, she can do this, she doesn't need me.
39:37
Speaker 2: Well, let me explain that better.
39:39
Speaker 3: So, because of his status that he feels he was
39:41
Speaker 3: holding in Charleston, even though people knew he never wanted children,
39:45
Speaker 3: he couldn't say he left me at two and a
39:47
Speaker 3: half months because I wouldn't have borked. So he had
39:51
Speaker 3: to have an excuse of why he left me. So
39:53
Speaker 3: that's when he developed all the mentally ill stuff. The
39:56
Speaker 3: baby he acted like he wanted, because now it would
39:59
Speaker 3: look really bad if he said, oh, I don't want it,
40:02
Speaker 3: and my friends all tried to get me to move
40:04
Speaker 3: to another state. I should have done that, and there's
40:06
Speaker 3: a lot of things I should have done, because then
40:08
Speaker 3: it had been out of side, out of mind, and
40:10
Speaker 3: I didn't do it, not because I thought I would
40:12
Speaker 3: get back together, but I thought he didn't want her,
40:15
Speaker 3: But then I.
40:16
Speaker 2: Never thought about his reputation is the most important thing
40:19
Speaker 2: to him.
40:19
Speaker 3: He's worked his whole life to be looked at like
40:24
Speaker 3: he's something that he wasn't. So you don't just walk
40:27
Speaker 3: out on your pregnant wife, especially back then. So there
40:30
Speaker 3: had to be a reason why he left his pregnant wife,
40:32
Speaker 3: and that's where it all stemmed from, right, So I
40:35
Speaker 3: hope that makes more sense.
40:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, if I'm understanding correctly, your feeling is that
40:40
Speaker 4: culturally in the South, and also his own personal sort
40:46
Speaker 4: of upbringing has informed this state of mind where he
40:51
Speaker 4: now needs to save face at all costs, which is
40:54
Speaker 4: going to have to mean taking the baby from you
40:57
Speaker 4: because he has proclaimed that you're mentally now.
41:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's what the whole idea was. It wasn't
41:04
Speaker 3: ever for him to have her. It was to try
41:07
Speaker 3: and save face throughout this whole thing.
41:11
Speaker 1: Lee was shocked to find out that Harris wanted full
41:14
Speaker 1: custody of their daughter, Savannah, but she felt comforted by
41:17
Speaker 1: the fact that a court would probably side with her
41:20
Speaker 1: the mother. After all, she was still breastfeeding and Harris
41:24
Speaker 1: had not been involved in the pregnancy or in the
41:27
Speaker 1: first few months of Savannah's life.
41:30
Speaker 3: The court appoints a guardian alightem, and it's a paid
41:33
Speaker 3: guardian alightem. Everybody said, just be really careful what you
41:36
Speaker 3: say to her. I tiptoed around her. She starts telling me,
41:39
Speaker 3: she goes Lee, You've got to trust me. Everything I'm
41:41
Speaker 3: doing is for you and for your baby. And then
41:44
Speaker 3: she starts taking her away and giving her to Harris,
41:47
Speaker 3: like for an hour or three hours, and I'm nursing
41:50
Speaker 3: and I had a terrible time funded pump pumps back
41:54
Speaker 3: then were horrible. They're not like they are now. So
41:58
Speaker 3: she'd take away and then I you're taking her, and like,
42:01
Speaker 3: I don't even know where you're going. But I wasn't
42:03
Speaker 3: allowed to know anything. So every time we turned around,
42:07
Speaker 3: she take me back into court because she wanted to
42:10
Speaker 3: extend the hours, or she wanted to give him. Instead
42:13
Speaker 3: of two hours, he got three hours. And every single time,
42:16
Speaker 3: you have to have all your lawyers pilot and it
42:18
Speaker 3: costs you all the money.
42:19
Speaker 2: You can imagine.
42:21
Speaker 3: From there, we set a court date. It took forever
42:25
Speaker 3: to go to court, and everybody kept saying, don't worry
42:27
Speaker 3: a good mother. There's no records of any problems. Will
42:30
Speaker 3: not lose a baby, the nursing baby especially, It's not
42:33
Speaker 3: going to happen. So we ended up going back and
42:36
Speaker 3: forth for these tip for tat things. Meantime, I'm losing
42:39
Speaker 3: all the money I have, I'm not able to work,
42:44
Speaker 3: and then we finally have a court date set.
42:47
Speaker 1: The trial started on January nineteenth, nineteen ninety four, and
42:51
Speaker 1: lasted thirteen non consecutive days. It ended on February eighteenth,
42:56
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. The psychiatrist doctor A's testimony was not
43:00
Speaker 1: good for Lee's case. He had diagnosed Lee with a
43:04
Speaker 1: mental health disorder. Since he also saw her mother, Dottie
43:08
Speaker 1: on multiple occasions. Doctor A claimed that this mental health
43:11
Speaker 1: disorder was genetic. It also affected Dottie, and he guessed
43:16
Speaker 1: probably Lee's grandmother as well. The diagnosis something called hyperthymic temperament.
43:23
Speaker 1: In his testimony, he describes it akin to bipolar disorder
43:27
Speaker 1: and states multiple times that it is treatable with medication.
43:32
Speaker 1: He states that if Lee had not been pregnant, he
43:35
Speaker 1: would have prescribed her lithium, but instead he prescribed her naving. Now,
43:40
Speaker 1: this was nineteen ninety four and things obviously change, but
43:44
Speaker 1: doctor A's description of hyperthymic temperament is very inaccurate based
43:49
Speaker 1: on today's understanding. In fact, hyperthymic temperament is not considered
43:54
Speaker 1: a disorder at all. It's classified as a personality style.
43:58
Speaker 1: Characteristics include increased energy productivity, talkativeness, cheerfulness, as well as
44:04
Speaker 1: tendency for risk taking. People with hyperthymic temperament can sometimes
44:09
Speaker 1: be mistaken for having bipolar disorder, but they are very
44:12
Speaker 1: different things, and it is not standard practice to prescribe
44:16
Speaker 1: a person with hyperthymic temperament and antipsychotic drug like navying,
44:22
Speaker 1: because again, hyperthymic temperament is not a psychiatric disorder now,
44:29
Speaker 1: if you'll recall, after Lee stop seeing doctor A, she
44:32
Speaker 1: sought out psychiatric treatment from another doctor. She knew that
44:36
Speaker 1: she would need a second opinion and she wanted to
44:38
Speaker 1: see a doctor who was unbiased, who had not conferred
44:42
Speaker 1: with her estranged mother or her soon to be ex husband.
44:46
Speaker 1: That was doctor Fulk. Doctor Fulk also testified at the trial,
44:51
Speaker 1: and he disagreed with the diagnosis of hyperthymic temperament. He
44:55
Speaker 1: said that he saw no signs of any emotional or
44:58
Speaker 1: mental problem that would just putting Lee on medication. He
45:02
Speaker 1: also noted that he had seen Lee interact with her daughter, Savannah,
45:07
Speaker 1: and that she was a patient and attentive mother. These
45:11
Speaker 1: two doctors testimonies were wildly different from one another, and
45:15
Speaker 1: perhaps in anticipation of that, the judge had decided that
45:18
Speaker 1: they would need a third psychiatrist to testify.
45:23
Speaker 3: Then the judge decides that he wants a tiebreaker psychologist,
45:29
Speaker 3: So he points a paid tiebreaker.
45:32
Speaker 1: Because there's the doctor who had diagnosed you, and then
45:36
Speaker 1: there's your reputable psychiatrist who I assume testified that there
45:41
Speaker 1: was nothing wrong with your mental health.
45:43
Speaker 3: Over and over yes, and depositions and by other psychiatrists
45:47
Speaker 3: that I had too right.
45:48
Speaker 1: So then the judge wanted another psychiatrist to testify. It
45:53
Speaker 1: was psychologist psychologist.
45:55
Speaker 3: This is prior going to court. So we had I
45:58
Speaker 3: think it was seven sessions each. I had seven, Harris
46:02
Speaker 3: had seven, and he said I'd have to agree that
46:04
Speaker 3: I believe at times Lee was hyperthymic, and lithium might
46:08
Speaker 3: have been a good option for my lawyer didn't do anything,
46:13
Speaker 3: just very.
46:13
Speaker 1: Suspect throughout the trial. The case is built that Lee
46:17
Speaker 1: is unstable, unfit, and mentally unwell. It is proposed that
46:22
Speaker 1: she could be a danger to her daughter, Savannah. At
46:25
Speaker 1: one point, it's even said that if she went unmedicated,
46:29
Speaker 1: she could become homicidal or suicidal. Finally, in February of
46:34
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, the trial concluded.
46:37
Speaker 3: It was Friday morning. I got there at eight in
46:41
Speaker 3: the morning, as usual. My lawyer pulled me into another
46:45
Speaker 3: room and he said we got to talk. And I said,
46:47
Speaker 3: what's up? And he goes, last night we all had
46:49
Speaker 3: a meeting. I said, who's wee? And he said me.
46:52
Speaker 3: Harris is lawyer. And the judge called us up. Harris
46:56
Speaker 3: is getting full custody. And I said, well, how can
46:59
Speaker 3: that even? And he goes, well it has so, I
47:04
Speaker 3: of course was hysterical. I went and called my brother
47:06
Speaker 3: and my friends, and I called my mother's.
47:10
Speaker 2: Friend and to come and they let her sit with me.
47:14
Speaker 1: Savannah was nine and a half months old and still breastfeeding.
47:17
Speaker 1: Now Lee would only legally be able to see her
47:20
Speaker 1: four days out of each month. She was in shock,
47:23
Speaker 1: horrified that this was really happening, and she said the
47:27
Speaker 1: judge seemed to only take her emotions as further evidence
47:31
Speaker 1: that she was mentally unwell.
47:34
Speaker 3: And I had to sit there and I was crying,
47:36
Speaker 3: and he said, now, this is like the fourth time
47:39
Speaker 3: you've cried.
47:39
Speaker 2: You're out of control. And I was just crying.
47:43
Speaker 3: I mean, they'd taken my baby from me, my nursing baby,
47:46
Speaker 3: and he force weaned her on the spot that day,
47:48
Speaker 3: and they took her from me. And I'm the only
47:51
Speaker 3: one that ever had her, you.
47:52
Speaker 1: Know, horrible.
47:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, being postpartum is already a very difficult
48:00
Speaker 4: and vulnerable time for a lot of people. Crying to
48:04
Speaker 4: me doesn't feel like an abnormal reaction for someone to feel.
48:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
48:10
Speaker 1: Lee had always held out hope that she would get
48:12
Speaker 1: custody of Savannah. She said she'd never been opposed to
48:16
Speaker 1: Harris having visitation and being in Savannah's life, but the
48:20
Speaker 1: decision to give full custody of her infant child to
48:24
Speaker 1: the man who begged her to have an abortion was overwhelming.
48:28
Speaker 1: She did not trust that he would care for Savannah,
48:31
Speaker 1: and she said there was something else said in the
48:34
Speaker 1: courtroom that terrified her for her daughter.
48:37
Speaker 3: What happened in the courtroom was Harris is on the
48:40
Speaker 3: witness stand, and my lawyer said, you think this woman
48:44
Speaker 3: is so mentally ill, don't you? And Harris said, yeah,
48:46
Speaker 3: me and all the doctors, and you know it's obvious
48:49
Speaker 3: she is. And so he said, you've said she's a
48:52
Speaker 3: third generation with this hypothemic temperament, and Harris said yeah,
48:57
Speaker 3: and he said, you're saying it's genetic. And he's like, yeah,
49:00
Speaker 3: he said, so your daughter, he said, because you'd already
49:02
Speaker 3: written a poem called the Fourth Generation about his baby
49:06
Speaker 3: girl with this mental illness. So he said, so are
49:10
Speaker 3: you going to watch her to see if she shows
49:12
Speaker 3: any signs?
49:13
Speaker 2: And he said, yeah, I am.
49:15
Speaker 3: And he goes, I'll watch her ever so closely, and
49:18
Speaker 3: I'm just chillsen as a thirty two or three year
49:21
Speaker 3: old woman. If I can't prove I'm not mentally ill,
49:24
Speaker 3: happen a little baby. So because I'll watch her ever
49:27
Speaker 3: so closely, and when I see one sign of hyperthymic temperament,
49:32
Speaker 3: I'll whisker her off to one good doctor, doctor, and
49:35
Speaker 3: I'll have her medicated as young as three years old.
49:38
Speaker 2: That's why I left.
49:41
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, that's a very scary thing to hear,
49:44
Speaker 4: and especially if you already feel like you're being misportrayed
49:47
Speaker 4: and misdiagnosed and losing custody. If that's how for someone.
49:53
Speaker 3: So I had to wait to get my visitations. My
49:55
Speaker 3: lawyer called me and said, you get her four nights
49:59
Speaker 3: a month, nursing baby. So first week I get her,
50:04
Speaker 3: she's got a contusion on her head, bloody nose.
50:08
Speaker 1: In the forty eight Hours episode, Harris is interviewed and
50:11
Speaker 1: he admits that this is true, but claims that his
50:14
Speaker 1: mother was watching Savannah and the bruising was caused by
50:17
Speaker 1: an accidental fall. For Lee, it was only an escalation
50:22
Speaker 1: of an impossible situation. She felt that her daughter was
50:26
Speaker 1: in unsafe hands. She called the police and attempted to
50:29
Speaker 1: block Harris from getting Savannah back, but it did not work.
50:33
Speaker 1: Lee was determined to file an appeal to the court
50:36
Speaker 1: order as soon as she could, but she legally had
50:39
Speaker 1: to wait until the written decree of divorce was released.
50:42
Speaker 1: Her legal team expected it to arrive within thirty days
50:45
Speaker 1: of the trial ending, but thirty days came and went
50:48
Speaker 1: and they still waited.
50:51
Speaker 3: So in the state of South Carolina, a judge has
50:54
Speaker 3: thirty days to do a written court order.
50:57
Speaker 2: Without a written court order, you can't go to the
50:59
Speaker 2: appellate court. I watched a.
51:01
Speaker 3: Sixty minutes show, which was my favorite show back then,
51:05
Speaker 3: and they showed how you could get at MacArthur Park
51:08
Speaker 3: in LA.
51:09
Speaker 2: You could get anything illegal you wanted to.
51:12
Speaker 3: And I just kind of put back because it was
51:13
Speaker 3: before I went to court that I saw that show
51:16
Speaker 3: and I was like, that'll never happen.
51:18
Speaker 2: But I stuck in the back of my head.
51:19
Speaker 3: So on day forty six, without a written court order,
51:23
Speaker 3: I had no way to appeal.
51:24
Speaker 2: So I left MacArthur Park.
51:26
Speaker 4: So you left flew yeah, you La?
51:31
Speaker 1: Like wait, You're like wait what?
51:33
Speaker 3: Yeah?
51:33
Speaker 1: So you flew to LA.
51:35
Speaker 3: This girl has never even smoked pot and I'm going
51:37
Speaker 3: down to MacArthur Park to get something.
51:40
Speaker 1: Did you take Savannah with you to LA or did
51:43
Speaker 1: you return her and then you went on this like
51:47
Speaker 1: yeah trip? So you you did end up returning her
51:50
Speaker 1: to Harris Oh.
51:52
Speaker 2: Yes.
51:53
Speaker 1: Lee felt she was out of options. Her child had
51:56
Speaker 1: been taken away from her and she saw no way forward.
52:00
Speaker 1: Her experience with the court system and with the judge
52:02
Speaker 1: on her case led her to believe that they were
52:05
Speaker 1: not acting Impartially, she felt she'd been framed, told she
52:09
Speaker 1: had a mental illness when she did not, and so
52:13
Speaker 1: Lee made a decision. It was a decision that would
52:16
Speaker 1: impact the rest of her life. Lee had decided to flee.
52:21
Speaker 1: She didn't quite know how or when, but she decided
52:24
Speaker 1: she would take Savannah and disappear. Her plan started with
52:28
Speaker 1: a flight to Los Angeles and a trip to MacArthur Park,
52:32
Speaker 1: a park known in the nineteen nineties for crime and
52:35
Speaker 1: illegal activity. She went there looking for something very specific, passports.
52:50
Speaker 1: That's it for part one. Please join us next week
52:52
Speaker 1: to hear the second part of Lee Barnett's story, when
52:54
Speaker 1: she tells us about her life on the run.
52:57
Speaker 3: And I just waited every minute to be swarmed in
52:59
Speaker 3: on by cops, you know, I just knew I was
53:01
Speaker 3: going to get nailed. And there were cameras back in
53:04
Speaker 3: those days in there, and I opened up the envelope
53:07
Speaker 3: and there were two brand new, beautiful.
53:10
Speaker 2: Real US passports.
53:13
Speaker 4: If you have a story for us, we would love
53:15
Speaker 4: to hear it. Our email is The Knife at exactly
53:18
Speaker 4: rightmedia dot com, or you can follow us on Instagram
53:20
Speaker 4: at the Knife Podcast or Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
53:24
Speaker 1: This has been an Exactly Right production hosted and produced
53:27
Speaker 1: by me Hannah Smith, and me Pasha Eny.
53:30
Speaker 4: Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and Alexis Samarosi.
53:33
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer
53:36
Speaker 1: is Christina Chamberlain. Our theme music is by Birds in
53:39
Speaker 1: the Airport. Artwork five ansa Lilac executive produced by Karen
53:43
Speaker 1: Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer