Latest / The Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast / Episode 53 | Unlocking the Potential: Exploring Camelina as a Cover Crop
Transcript
- Episode 53 | Unlocking the Potential: Exploring Camelina as a Cover Crop 00:00:06:25 - 00:00:34:18 Todd Gleason This is the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast, episode 53 Unlocking the Potential and Exploring Camelina as a Cover Crop. I'm University of Illinois Extension's Todd Gleason. Today we'll explore camelina with Joel Gruver. He's a professor of soil science and sustainable agriculture at Western Illinois University in Macomb. Called and asked him to tell us a little bit about his work and himself. 00:00:34:21 - 00:01:09:05 Joel Gruver My primary activity is undergraduate teaching. That's what I focus on. I teach typically 3 or 4 classes each semester, so, you know, around seven classes a year. And, that is what I focus on making sure that I take the science and translate it into understandable, memorable, ideas that the students can take away and, you know, apply on their farms or, you know, in their professional activities. 00:01:09:08 - 00:01:33:25 Joel Gruver And I, I speak to lots of farmer meetings also, and I really use the same approach that I use in the classroom, some of the same slides, but mainly the same types of, communication where I've just thought about how to turn, you know, complicated science into a narrative, kind of a story telling type of approach of communication. 00:01:33:25 - 00:02:05:04 Joel Gruver And, the research that I do is kind of, broadly speaking, related to conservation, cropping systems, but more specifically, my, my main research focus is organic cropping systems. And so I'm the director of the Organic Research program at WIU. We have, a 77 acre organic research farm. That the university has had since the late 80s. 00:02:05:06 - 00:02:46:08 Joel Gruver And I've been involved about half of the time. The this this is, my 16th season. And we try to solve the basic production questions of how to grow corn, soybeans, small grains, and, organic systems. How to, you know, meet the nutrient needs, the weed control, obviously is an important issue. And, you know, I've been trying to figure out how to reduce tillage, add more cover crops to make organic systems work better than just old kind of traditional farming systems. 00:02:46:11 - 00:02:49:23 Todd Gleason On that note, can you tell me a little bit about the work with cover crops? 00:02:49:23 - 00:03:36:13 Joel Gruver So when I'm talking to farmer groups, I'm thinking about the the broader context. How do we establish cover crops mostly in corn and soybean systems, but in the organic context, our, our best opportunity is with or following small grains. And so I, I think a lot about, about that within my research program, but I'm also, you know, regularly communicating with farmers and trying to understand the, the challenges of the corn, soybean system, where we, we tend to plant late and terminate early. 00:03:36:17 - 00:04:21:08 Joel Gruver And that limits the, the benefit. So I'm, I'm always thinking about how to, expand those options. But the, the standard corn soybeans system has serious constraints. And, I appreciate having the opportunity to work in the organic systems where we have less of those constraints, we have less negative interactions with herbicides, we have more, just longer rotations, more diverse systems where it's easier to stick in cover crops and probably, you know, the cover crop benefits are not as easily, I guess, substituted for with inputs and organic systems. 00:04:21:08 - 00:04:43:03 Todd Gleason So this winter you made some presentations related to a cover crop called camelina. I'm not quite certain what this is where it's used. I feel like it's from the western part of the United States in it's use to begin with, but can you tell me about why you have been, exploring it to some extent? 00:04:43:08 - 00:04:46:16 Joel Gruver Yeah. So camelina is an ancient oilseed. 00:04:46:16 - 00:05:13:16 Joel Gruver It goes back thousands of thousands of years to Europe and was one of the first oilseed crops grown. And I can't imagine how difficult it was for those ancient farmers, since it has a very tiny seed. So, you know, harvesting enough to get some real oil out of it must have been challenging. But, it has been grown more recently in the western United States. 00:05:13:19 - 00:05:39:23 Joel Gruver I think the main place where the seed comes out of is the Dakotas. It also is probably grown in Canada. Maybe Montana. I guess one key concept people should take away is there is spring and winter camelina. And the winter camelina is extremely winter hardy. And we'll make it through our winters. You've been planted, in late October. 00:05:39:25 - 00:06:00:05 Joel Gruver In much of the Midwest region, it could be planted in late October and still make it through the winter just fine. The spring camelina, on the other hand, it will bolt, go to flower very quickly. And what you want is for it to be in a little rosette stage going into the hard temperatures of the winter. 00:06:00:07 - 00:06:28:21 Joel Gruver And if it has started to elongate, there's little hope for it to survive. And that that's what I have seen. If you plant it too early or you're using a spring type, it just is not likely to stay in that rosette stage. And the basic idea is that it is a, a brassica that has a longer window of opportunity for planting than radishes, for example. 00:06:28:21 - 00:06:46:20 Joel Gruver And it's much more winter hardy. So it really, you know, it has the potential to fit in kind of in the same places where cereal rye would fit in, but it has much less, potential for negative impact on the following crop than a cover crop like cereal rye. 00:06:46:27 - 00:06:48:14 Todd Gleason Why is that the case? 00:06:48:16 - 00:06:50:15 Joel Gruver Well, it doesn't make as much. 00:06:50:16 - 00:07:20:02 Joel Gruver It doesn't make nearly as much biomass, as cereal rye. It I think is not going to have the nitrogen tie up the potential. I get, you know, the, the concept of a little passage where one plant has a negative effect on another is a complex topic. And I think some of it could be, pathogen effects, some of it could be, actual biochemicals being released. 00:07:20:02 - 00:07:43:18 Joel Gruver But rye has the potential to have some negative effects on following grasses like corn. And, there's very little evidence that camelina has those effects. Camelina, I think is really a very safe cover crop to precede corn or or many other crops. 00:07:43:24 - 00:07:47:04 Todd Gleason How late in the fall do you suppose it can be sown? 00:07:47:06 - 00:07:50:03 Joel Gruver I would feel very comfortable. 00:07:50:05 - 00:08:20:09 Joel Gruver Planting it after most corner soybeans would be out in, in Illinois. And so basically all the way up to November 1st, probably as long as there is moisture so that it establishes quickly when it is planted, it it probably, could establish that little rosette that can go through the, the winter. You know, earlier is closer to October 1st would probably be better. 00:08:20:12 - 00:08:40:07 Joel Gruver But the, the window of basically the full month of October, I think is, is a good time to, to plant camelina and really planting it ahead of October 1st. Our experience is that you you have much more risk that it will grow too much in the fall. And, and not have the winter hardiness. 00:08:40:12 - 00:08:44:10 Todd Gleason Are you seeding it along with other cover crops or by itself? 00:08:44:10 - 00:08:49:17 Todd Gleason How do you manage the fall sowing is really what I'm trying to ask. 00:08:49:19 - 00:09:07:15 Joel Gruver Camelina, can be used in a mix with something like cereal rye. And then, for example, you could cut your cereal rye rate quite, you know, quite low. You know, some people plant as much as a bushel of cereal rye, you know, 56 pounds. 00:09:07:17 - 00:09:33:26 Joel Gruver But that that really creates some, likelihood of negative effects on the following crop. So I, you know, I'm recommending people cut their rye rates back in a good way to really feel comfortable cutting your rye right back is to combine it with something like camelina. And so, you know, maybe only plant 20 pounds of rye and 4 pounds of camelina might be a good combination. 00:09:33:28 - 00:10:07:23 Joel Gruver The you know, the challenge and this is really a engineering challenge that farmers and industry people are good at solving. Is the seed sizes so different? Camelina is hundreds of thousands of seeds per pound whereas cereal rye might be 15,000 seeds per pound. So there might be, you know, 30, 40 seeds of camelina for every rye seed in terms of just the the weight of a rye seed compared to a camelina seed. 00:10:07:25 - 00:10:43:15 Joel Gruver So, you need to have a way to, to meter the seed, just, a mix. The straight mix I don't think will work well. So you have to have maybe a separate metering system for the small seed versus the rye. You don't want to plant the camelina super deep, but I think, you know, drilling, drilling rye and then scattering camelina over the surface, like through a small seed box or some type of, broadcast system, I think could work. 00:10:43:18 - 00:11:14:17 Joel Gruver A system locally. A guy had two boxes where he was delivering rye and camelina, through two from two different boxes and then working it shallowly in with, vertical tillage tool that established a very nice stand. So I think there are various ways to do it, but the key thing is just to recognize there's such a big difference in seed size that just blending the seeds together is probably not the ideal way to do it. 00:11:14:19 - 00:11:21:00 Todd Gleason If you've managed to get the stand, both rye and camelina, once you get to the spring, what does termination look like? 00:11:21:06 - 00:11:43:02 Joel Gruver Both, both rye and camelina are easy to terminate with standard burndown programs. Well, one of the ways I see camelina fitting in is by allowing you to lower your rye seeding rate. You, you really can probably let the rye grow a little bit longer, the camelina will start bolting. 00:11:43:02 - 00:12:20:19 Joel Gruver Start, you know, going to flower in April. And so your farmers have to think about their comfort level with with risk. And I think that adding camelina in, you know, and cutting rye back is a way to manage risk. But on some fields probably and it you know, it depends on the, the weather, you know, if there's adequate moisture, letting the rye and camelina grow a little bit longer, it is probably a good, good option for some fields. If it's looking dry and, you know, like this season kill killing it earlier is a better option. 00:12:20:21 - 00:13:02:10 Joel Gruver You know, the likelihood of just 20 pounds of rye and a few pounds of camelina having a negative effect on the following corn or bean crop, I think is is quite low. And I think what farmers are especially benefiting from these days and camelina is a good example of this. There are conservation agronomists working with some co-ops. One of the co-ops in Iowa that I've interacted with is Heartland Co-op, and they they have several conservation agronomists that are putting out camelina test strips and working with farmers, just like, you know, retail agronomists work with farmers to make most of our agronomy decisions. 00:13:02:12 - 00:13:15:03 Joel Gruver Conservation agronomists are, you know, are helping focus in on the conservation aspects and camelina, I think, is a target for a number of the conservation agronomists in Iowa. And I think that's coming to Illinois as well. 00:13:15:05 - 00:13:24:16 Todd Gleason Just as a reminder here on this program, we have talked with the conservation agronomist from Heartland Co-op. You can review episode 35, in fact, if you'd like. 00:13:24:21 - 00:13:32:12 Todd Gleason But let's continue on now, Joel, for just a moment, what other kinds of things are you considering as it's related to cover crops? 00:13:32:12 - 00:13:54:24 Joel Gruver One of the things that I'm looking at specifically within my organic research program is growing cover crop seed, and especially cowpea seed is something that I, I think has a real potential to, you know, to be, a revenue generator that would fit within our if we can grow soybeans. 00:13:55:00 - 00:14:21:02 Joel Gruver I think with the right cowpea genetics, we can grow cow peas. And, I'm, I'm a I'm always looking for cover crops with smaller seeds. That may seem a little unusual. That's different. You know, in our grain crops, we like grain crops with big seeds, but with cover crops. If we can have more seeds per pound, I think that that is generally a benefit. 00:14:21:02 - 00:14:51:02 Joel Gruver And so most cow peas are around 4000 seeds per pound. I, I have some cow peas that I am, growing this season that are around 10,000 seeds per pound. And I started planting these cover, these cow peas about a month ago. I planted some yesterday and, I'm looking forward to these cow peas potentially being something that is, a better fit following wheat or oats or other small grains. 00:14:51:04 - 00:15:13:05 Joel Gruver People are planting mixtures, complex mixtures after small grains and all the cow peas that people include are grown down in Texas or, you know, in the Deep South. And I think we could potentially grow, grow those cow peas here in Illinois. And I'm hoping to, maybe be a leader in developing that industry. 00:15:13:07 - 00:15:15:05 Todd Gleason And these would be for harvest? 00:15:15:07 - 00:15:42:29 Joel Gruver We would harvest the cowpea for the seed. It would be, you know, cleaned and then, you know, it would be purchased by local farmers as a cover crop. So the local farmers would mostly not be growing it for seed, but a few would, and there, you know, there would be a local cover crop seed industry rather than the seed having to come, you know, from the Deep South. 00:15:43:02 - 00:15:55:09 Todd Gleason Yeah. I ask only because I know cowpea is a staple crop food crop that is in Africa. What additional advice do you have for a farmer interested in diversifying their cover crop mix? 00:15:55:15 - 00:16:15:18 Joel Gruver Well, I think rye is the, you know, the most reliable cover crop. The you know that that's not, the riddle. The riddle is how to best utilize rye and rye ahead of soybeans, I think, is where the low risk opportunities are. 00:16:15:20 - 00:16:47:00 Joel Gruver So, we need to focus in on that. How to, you know, if we're talking about a standard corn soybeans system, how to get as much rye benefit ahead of soybeans, recognizing that, you know, we we have nutrients leaking out of our corn, soybeans systems in the soybean year as well as the corn year. Many people kind of forget about the soybean year when we're not normally applying nitrogen, but there's still substantial leakage. 00:16:47:00 - 00:17:26:01 Joel Gruver And I think by growing more rye biomass, maybe just ahead of the the soybeans, we can really address those nutrient losses. And then I think because it's, lower risk, much lower risk situation, we can let the rye grow longer. We can also add in some other, other cover crop species, even legumes. You know, normally people don't think of legumes being, needed if you're preceding soybeans, but I, I try to think of the whole system that we're building. 00:17:26:03 - 00:17:49:12 Joel Gruver Nutrient supply potential in our soil. And if we, if we do that ahead of the soybeans, because that's when we have low risk and we can let the rye grow longer. The rye with a legume like crimson clover, then that's a good time to do it, even though the benefit from that extra nitrogen availability might really not be till the following year. 00:17:49:14 - 00:18:05:15 Joel Gruver So look at rye ahead of soybeans, letting it grow longer, but also adding in other, other species such as camelina, such as crimson clover. I think those those are the real opportunities that I'm looking at right now. 00:18:05:17 - 00:18:09:16 Todd Gleason Are there places that people can find the information from you easily? 00:18:09:18 - 00:18:14:17 Joel Gruver People certainly can get in touch with me directly. 00:18:14:19 - 00:18:43:22 Joel Gruver But the Midwest Cover Crop Counsel website is the clearinghouse for cover crops that I refer people to. Specifically regarding camelina, we actually have a a meeting that's facilitated by the Midwest Cover Crop Council to discuss in Illinois what the NRCs recommendations should be for camelina. And, so we're, you know, a group of us are going to have that conversation. 00:18:43:22 - 00:18:54:10 Joel Gruver I don't know how that will play out, but definitely camelina is on the radar. And, you know, people want to know better recommendations. I look forward to that conversation. 00:18:54:17 - 00:19:09:27 Todd Gleason Joel Gruver is a professor of soil science and sustainable agriculture at Western Illinois University in McComb. If you'd like to learn more about the Midwest Cover Crops Council, you can do that online at Midwest Cover Crops dot org. 00:19:09:29 - 00:19:33:21 Todd Gleason It's all one word. Midwest cover crops dot o r g. Of course, have been listening to episode 53 of the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction podcast, Unlocking the Potential exploring Camelina as a cover crop. The program was produced in conjunction with University of Illinois Extension's Rachel Curry and Nicole Haverback. I'm extensions Todd Gleason.